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  1. #1
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    Can Virat Kohli become an ATG in Test cricket?

    We all know what he can do in the LOI formats but his test match career has not been as good though.

    Do you think he will not have a successful test career compared to his odi career? I think he will have a fabulous test match career, not many players can get 4 centuries in 4 games against Australia in Australia. His technique against swing bowling has improved as we have seen in recent months.

    Do people on PP agree with me or do u think he won't be as successful in test matches compared to LOI?

  2. #2
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    Is there any doubt?

    The only problem I have with him is that he is unable to post some truly massive scores. His highest score after 11 test hundreds is still only 169. The question was raised in this thread as well.

  3. #3
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    Has the potential but won't be as good as he is in LOIs.

  4. #4
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    His test average is deceptive to say the least. Played on some ridiculously unplayable surfaces in India, found it tough on first English tour. Was all guns blazing in Australia, and was quality in Sri Lanka and South Africa.

    I think seeing his work ethic and overall attitude/hunger, its just a matter of time before either catches up with Root/Smith/Kane or may be some of them stoop to their deserved averages.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acricketfan View Post
    Is there any doubt?

    The only problem I have with him is that he is unable to post some truly massive scores. His highest score after 11 test hundreds is still only 169. The question was raised in this thread as well.
    Some people have doubt but I'm not one of them his technique is much better just about getting the scores now

  6. #6
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    No doubt at all.

    He is already a tremendous Test player, and only a matter of time before he reaches elite status.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No doubt at all.

    He is already a tremendous Test player, and only a matter of time before he reaches elite status.
    There are people who doubt it though. His hard work and attitude have convinced me he will be an elite test player

  8. #8
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    Not a question of IF but a question of WHEN


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  9. #9
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    Definitely


    "Our business is our business. None of your business" - Race 3

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Not a question of IF but a question of WHEN
    Can see him scoring heavily in the next few test matches

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Can see him scoring heavily in the next few test matches
    Best part about him if he doesn't do well he won't blame the conditions, the coaches, his batting position, the weather pattern, stock exchange situation etc.

    He would be the first to admit the areas he needs to improve in.


    That is what champions are made of.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Best part about him if he doesn't do well he won't blame the conditions, the coaches, his batting position, the weather pattern, stock exchange situation etc.

    He would be the first to admit the areas he needs to improve in.


    That is what champions are made of.
    Yes this is what I like about him he takes responsibility and thrives under pressure my favourite player in world cricket atm

  13. #13
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    He will go the ABD way..Legitimate ATG in odis and one of the greats of the game in test format.Nowaday, I don't see many players having an avg of 55+ till they reach their peak days like it was around 2006-07 when 5-6 players were averaging in range 53-58.

  14. #14
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    ATG? He can become a good batsman, but not an ATG, or may be he can become Indian ATG.


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    ATG? He can become a good batsman, but not an ATG, or may be he can become Indian ATG.
    Scored 4 centuries in 4 games against Australia in Australia how many good batsmen do that? Only world class batsmen can do that

  16. #16
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    He has potential and his hard work is second to none so he can definitely become and ATG.. wish him best of luck and hope he continues to carry on the good work..

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    ATG? He can become a good batsman, but not an ATG, or may be he can become Indian ATG.
    He is already a good batsman and he amount of hard work he is putting he can become an ATG as well.. It's upto him if he continues to put in the effort and doesn't get carried away by distractions..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Scored 4 centuries in 4 games against Australia in Australia how many good batsmen do that? Only world class batsmen can do that
    If he get 14 ducks in next 14 innings, so still he will be a World Class test batsman?

    Performing at Australia is the criteria for being an ATG?


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    He is already a good batsman and he amount of hard work he is putting he can become an ATG as well.. It's upto him if he continues to put in the effort and doesn't get carried away by distractions..
    His hard work and dedication will get him far in test matches

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    He is already a good batsman and he amount of hard work he is putting he can become an ATG as well.. It's upto him if he continues to put in the effort and doesn't get carried away by distractions..
    THIS. And i don't think he will be able to maintain his good performances.


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  21. #21
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    Not in Tests he won't, he's a bit like ABD in that he cannot get big scores, AB has only 2 180+ scores in 106 Tests. Big hundreds are much more valuable in Tests because of the greater volume of runs scored. I don't think has ever scored 175 in a test.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    If he get 14 ducks in next 14 innings, so still he will be a World Class test batsman?

    Performing at Australia is the criteria for being an ATG?
    No but traditionally Asian batsmen struggle there but kohli bucked the trend. Tell me how many players in world cricket today would score 4 centuries in 4 games against Australia in Australia

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    If he get 14 ducks in next 14 innings, so still he will be a World Class test batsman?

    Performing at Australia is the criteria for being an ATG?
    He won't get 14 ducks in 14 innings I expect him to score plenty against West indies and at home against Australia and England he will back himself to score against them

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    No but traditionally Asian batsmen struggle there but kohli bucked the trend. Tell me how many players in world cricket today would score 4 centuries in 4 games against Australia in Australia
    No, now they don't struggle in Aus, we all know which kind of pitches they are making.

    England, SA are good surfaces for bowling now.


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He won't get 14 ducks in 14 innings I expect him to score plenty against West indies and at home against Australia and England he will back himself to score against them
    Yes by smashing a team like WI can truly make him an ATG


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    No, now they don't struggle in Aus, we all know which kind of pitches they are making.

    England, SA are good surfaces for bowling now.
    Still got to score runs on them I don't think any Asian batsmen or even root or Williamson would score 4 centuries in 4 games

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    Yes by smashing a team like WI can truly make him an ATG
    Scoring against England and Australia regularly will help though

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    ATG? He can become a good batsman, but not an ATG, or may be he can become Indian ATG.
    He's already a good batsman in Tests.

  29. #29
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    Who has more intensity and drive in world cricket today than Kohli? He gives you the impression that he will actively force himself into becoming an ATG.

    He looks like a kind of determined super-hamster.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    Yes by smashing a team like WI can truly make him an ATG
    The same WI that beat the crap out of Pakistan last time they played tests but its ok Pakistan are a minnow today.

  31. #31
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    Bump time!!!


    The next few months will give us a big indication. Convinced this will be the start of him ending up a great test batsmen. England, Australia, new zeeland, and West Indies, be afraid be very afraid.

  32. #32
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    I think he will end up like Viv Richards, absolute beast in ODIs but a barely 50 averaging batsman in tests with some special knocks but lacking overall consistency.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    He will go the ABD way..Legitimate ATG in odis and one of the greats of the game in test format.Nowaday, I don't see many players having an avg of 55+ till they reach their peak days like it was around 2006-07 when 5-6 players were averaging in range 53-58.
    Smith ?


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  34. #34
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    Proven in South Africa,New Zealand and Australia....now needs to seal the deal in WI.....will get more opportunities in England.....now needs to bully at home(no harm in that)

    and with his ODI and T20 heroics almost 50% as an overall ATG......just needs to kick on a little more.

    If he retires tonight,he will still be a 2nd tier ATG

  35. #35
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    Virat kohli is perhaps the best player of pace and bounce that India has produced .
    Has a slight issue with swing and his defense against spin as of now is perhaps not as solid as some of his predecessors .
    These are things he can overcome though . India's best ever in limited overs cricket

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I think he will end up like Viv Richards, absolute beast in ODIs but a barely 50 averaging batsman in tests with some special knocks but lacking overall consistency.
    He has 5 centuries in australia already bro, guy is on his way to becoming an elite test batsmen

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He has 5 centuries in australia already bro, guy is on his way to becoming an elite test batsmen
    Don't really regard performance in Australia that much honestly. Voges averages 95 but is he as good as someone like Ponting or Tendulkar? Even Taylor almost smashed a triple century at Perth, something which was unthinkable 7-8 years ago.

    Kohli's performance in Australia was very good but he was clueless in England and in SA series in India. Has to perform in England and rank turners in India first.

  38. #38
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    I am not too sure.

    Virat has hardly been impactful in any series in Asia.

    2011 - WI toured us when team collectively scored somewhat and got wins.
    2012 - NZ toured us and he did well in one of the tests
    2013 - Aus toured us and barring 1 test, it was a Pujara and Vijay show who helped us get the runs (Pujara mainly)
    2015 - We toured Bangladesh...just 1 innings - he didn't score I think but its just 1 inninngs
    2015 - We toured SL and while he may have been India's top scorer, we were shaky throughout and MORE importantly Pujara and Vijay had played only 1 test in that series and they scored in that series....
    2015 - SA toured us....Pujara and Vijay scored all the important runs in the first 3 tests...Rahane and Kohli did well in 4th test

    However Kohli has done very well in Aus, SA and NZ.

    WI record will be sorted soon.

    Needs to really take his game to the next level to become ATG.

    As of now, I am not certain about him reaching there. If he improves his impact aspect in Asia, then he has the ability.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  39. #39
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    Same case with Rahane.

    Great outside Asia but not so great in Asia as of now.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  40. #40
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    Forgot 2013 WI tour of India.

    1st test top order collapsed and then Rohit and Ashwin took us to safety and we won innings defeat.
    2nd test Pujara and Rohit scored well and we won innings defeat.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Forgot 2013 WI tour of India.

    1st test top order collapsed and then Rohit and Ashwin took us to safety and we won innings defeat.
    2nd test Pujara and Rohit scored well and we won innings defeat.
    Has to play a knock like Tendulkar's in Chennai or Laxman's vs Australia or Azhar's in Culcutta

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Has to play a knock like Tendulkar's in Chennai or Laxman's vs Australia or Azhar's in Culcutta
    One knock doesn't change much.

    Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid were supremely effective.

    Scoring a 50 or being second fiddle or missing out on most of the matches...Kohli needs to change that. He always looks in great touch in Asia but somehow gets out.

    Forgot another series.

    2012 England toured us. First 3 tests, he looked in great touch but kept getting out. We were 1-2 down. 4th test (which we had to win to draw the series), he scored a very good 100 under pressure with Dhoni after our batting collapsed...the match ended in draw (which was beyond his control). But the impact for majority of the series wasn't there.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  43. #43
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    Great LOI batsman, just don't think he cuts it for test matches.

  44. #44
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    Do ATGs average 12 in England?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon786 View Post
    Smith ?
    Smith is a bit of exception due to playing most games on his flat home tracks. But credit to him for maintaining that high avg. I think the influence of LOIs might affect a bit his test career.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I think he will end up like Viv Richards, absolute beast in ODIs but a barely 50 averaging batsman in tests with some special knocks but lacking overall consistency.
    Viv may average 50 but he is regarded as a beast in test format too.

  47. #47
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    WI, ENG and India are the places where he needs to improve his stats in test cricket.


    ...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Viv may average 50 but he is regarded as a beast in test format too.
    Viv is in the mould of Sehwag with better consistency.


    ...

  49. #49
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    inshallah!

    Lacks temperament at the moment, but he strives for success! Constantly Stays ahead of his game & keeps on improving

    He would be unstoppable in Test cricket once he sets up his mind for the challenge.


    Gangster rap made me do it.

  50. #50
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    Our entire current test batting lineup have low averages in India, maybe we lost playing spin well or too difficult wickets are being prepared for the last few home test series


    ...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    One knock doesn't change much.

    Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid were supremely effective.

    Scoring a 50 or being second fiddle or missing out on most of the matches...Kohli needs to change that. He always looks in great touch in Asia but somehow gets out.

    Forgot another series.

    2012 England toured us. First 3 tests, he looked in great touch but kept getting out. We were 1-2 down. 4th test (which we had to win to draw the series), he scored a very good 100 under pressure with Dhoni after our batting collapsed...the match ended in draw (which was beyond his control). But the impact for majority of the series wasn't there.
    That was a totally dead Nagpur pitch, made for extremely boring cricket.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 20th July 2016 at 15:02.

  52. #52
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    What are you talking about ...he's already an ATG ...better then sachin.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Smith is a bit of exception due to playing most games on his flat home tracks. But credit to him for maintaining that high avg. I think the influence of LOIs might affect a bit his test career.
    Yet Kohli's performance on said flat tracks is always brought in to enhance his rep, maybe because elsewhere he avges only about 38-39.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Yet Kohli's performance on said flat tracks is always brought in to enhance his rep, maybe because elsewhere he avges only about 38-39.
    I never took credit from Smith. Did I? And Kohli smashed 4 centuries in Aus vs Aussies bowling attack. That is certainly an achievement.But overall he is not up with the elite members in test format as he avgs 44 only. 2 games each in SA and NZ doesn't lead to any conclusion. But I back him to hit his peak now.

  55. #55
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    His temperament in tests and technique against quality swing are suspect. Need serious improvement.

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    There are two kinds of conditions Kohli plays in. Alien and unplayable (home).

    In away tours, Kohli has played like an ATG in all relevant countries except for England. So, he needs to get better there. At home, he has been decent. but still, there is a big room for improvement. He has time on his hands, so there is no reason why he can't end up as an ATG.

  57. #57
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    At best I see him reaching Dravid's level and at worst Laxman's level. Either way that'd be pretty great with his ODI conquests in mind.

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    He has all the skills necessary. A solid defense, and a good attacking game to go with it not to mention solid temperament.

    To people holding, rather, clinging onto his failures in England, the guy has worked on his off stump game since that series. Hayden and Ramiz were discussing this as well, as to how he has tightened his off stump game. You could say the Asia cup was proof but that was a different ball game albeit similar conditions so we'll find out next English tour kay bacha kitne pani may hai..

    Ofc, IF England is still relevant after Pakistan is done with them

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    That was a totally dead Nagpur pitch, made for extremely boring cricket.
    It was a slow wicket but Indian batsmen were mentally shot in the series and we were struggling @ 71/4 when he scored that century, 103 off 295 balls. It is his most patient knock so far in test cricket, it earned us a draw even though series was gone.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 20th July 2016 at 15:05.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    That was a totally dead Nagpur pitch, made for extremely boring cricket.
    This is the problem.

    You totally leave out context.

    Its not like I don't know about that Nagpur track. Commented about that track many a times here.

    I watched the match ball to ball and I know what pressure there was on the team when the top order collapsed.

    Dhoni and Kohli warded off several threatening spells to post their score after India were 61-4 in reply to England's 330. In that same patta, England were 119-4 at one point before Joe Root scored with Pietersen. What would have happened if 1-2 more wickets fell? They would have crumbled to 190 all out.

    Flat track doesn't mean batting at every situation in the game is easy. If a team is under pump, the batsman rescuing the team and scoring a 100 would be under terrific pressure.

    When Kohli and Dhoni put on those runs by playing out those spells, it became easier for others to bat as the pitch kept losing its life. Hence England couldn't bowl us out and we struggled more in the 3rd innings.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 20th July 2016 at 15:06.


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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Don't really regard performance in Australia that much honestly. Voges averages 95 but is he as good as someone like Ponting or Tendulkar? Even Taylor almost smashed a triple century at Perth, something which was unthinkable 7-8 years ago.

    Kohli's performance in Australia was very good but he was clueless in England and in SA series in India. Has to perform in England and rank turners in India first.
    For an Asian batsmen to score 5 centuries in Australia is a big achievement. Not many will get that in there career, virat has that before his prime.

    Yes he still needs to improve in England and on rank turners.

  62. #62
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    Of course, when talking about a tough pitch knock, that Nagpur 100 of Kohli won't be talked about.

    Pressure wise...it was a great knock.


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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Of course, when talking about a tough pitch knock, that Nagpur 100 of Kohli won't be talked about.

    Pressure wise...it was a great knock.
    Does Kohli have any tough pitch knock? All his memorable scores(Tests) seem to be on Flat or dead wickets.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    Does Kohli have any tough pitch knock? All his memorable scores(Tests) seem to be on Flat or dead wickets.
    1st test in SA, and the Aus 100 in 2011/12 ?

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Smith is a bit of exception due to playing most games on his flat home tracks. But credit to him for maintaining that high avg. I think the influence of LOIs might affect a bit his test career.
    They might be flat tracks, but Pakistani batsmen ahev never succeeded on them bar a couple of batsman over the years - it still takes skill to bat on them.

    Specifically, Smith, he has performed everywhere in Tests so while the majority of his matches may have been in Australia, he still maintains a healthy average in the ROW.

    It won't last for long, but it's awesome to see an average of 60 for a modern player.


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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    Does Kohli have any tough pitch knock? All his memorable scores(Tests) seem to be on Flat or dead wickets.
    Adelaide 2014 4th innings knock. Almost Laraesque.

    Joberg 2013 knock (1st innings) - the pitch got easier by 2nd innings not 1st.

    Chennai 2013 rank turner - He and Tendulkar steadied the ship and got us on track after we were 10-2

    100 & 51* Bangalore vs NZ in 2012 - That pitch had pace and bounce and was swinging around a bit in 4th innings when Kohli and Dhoni took us from 161-5 to chase down 262.


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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    Does Kohli have any tough pitch knock? All his memorable scores(Tests) seem to be on Flat or dead wickets.
    Yes vs NZ in Bangalore 2012

    Kiwis made 365
    We were 80/4 when Virat scored a century, it was a seaming wicket with overcast conditions. We made 353 in 1st innings.
    NZ set us a target of 264 in 4th innings which we chased with 5 wkts down, Kohli was unbeaten on 51.


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  68. #68
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    What has probably let him down thus far is going for one too many shots. Even when he's in he tends to give it away lot of the time. Just a single 150+ score in 70 odd innings. He's capable of much more than that.

  69. #69
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    Looking back at his career not really,IIRC during the last Windies tour the lad was dropped from test team.But he does work a lot on his game surely he realizes his shortcomings and hopefully improves himself.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
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  70. #70
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    he is on his way to become ATG in tests too
    there is no question about, he has class and have ability to play big knocks and soon his average ll be touching mid 50s

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    We all know what he can do in the LOI formats but his test match career has not been as good though.

    Do you think he will not have a successful test career compared to his odi career? I think he will have a fabulous test match career, not many players can get 4 centuries in 4 games against Australia in Australia. His technique against swing bowling has improved as we have seen in recent months.

    Do people on PP agree with me or do u think he won't be as successful in test matches compared to LOI?
    well
    he is a greater player than sachin

  72. #72
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    I feel he has issues against good spin bowling and needs to improve upon that to become an ATG because he will have to play most of his cricket on rank Indian turners. If he doesnt I feel he might end up at Laxman level in tests, which still is very good by all standards.


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  73. #73
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    To be considered a great Test bat in this era, you have to:

    Perform well against Pakistan
    Play well our attack in Asia
    Do excellent in England, SA and Aus

    The toughest challenge is Pakistan and England.

    He has done brilliant in SA and Aus, albeit on easy tracks. Has a lot to prove.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by AamchiMumbaikar View Post
    Yes vs NZ in Bangalore 2012

    Kiwis made 365
    We were 80/4 when Virat scored a century, it was a seaming wicket with overcast conditions. We made 353 in 1st innings.
    NZ set us a target of 264 in 4th innings which we chased with 5 wkts down, Kohli was unbeaten on 51.
    365 in first innings on a seaming pitch? Might be a sporting one but doesnt seem like a green one


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

  75. #75
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    Kohli actually looks comfortable when playing.

    Just throws it away.

    If he sorts that out, his average will climb fast.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Kohli actually looks comfortable when playing.

    Just throws it away.

    If he sorts that out, his average will climb fast.
    That comfort is his overconfidence which translate to disrespect for opposition's bowlers. When he gets beaten once or twice he loses all sense and tries to prove his superiority by attacking even more. He has played sensibly only when backed against wall.

    And yes Adelaide inning was legendary. I don't blame him for that shot.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacesensation View Post
    well
    he is a greater player than sachin
    Still has a bit to go before that, but I respect your opinion

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    ATG? He can become a good batsman, but not an ATG, or may be he can become Indian ATG.
    You mean like those jokers Gavaskar Tendulkar and Dravid?

  79. #79
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    Almost certainly, if not already - next 12 months is crucial for him, if he can crack 5/6 hundreds & couple of big one in that time. Almost every batting greats had 2/3 dream patches, which actually put them 10-12 runs higher in average than very good players. Virat is just entering his 1st phase - in right age for long innings, lots of matches coming & playing for a good unit. However, he has to fix some stats in 2018 English tour; otherwise English media won't ever accept him as ATG (& rightly so).

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    To be considered a great Test bat in this era, you have to:

    Perform well against Pakistan
    Play well our attack in Asia
    Do excellent in England, SA and Aus

    The toughest challenge is Pakistan and England.

    He has done brilliant in SA and Aus, albeit on easy tracks. Has a lot to prove.

    Whenever Indians score runs the pitch is easy.LOL.

    And while England is a challenge where he has failed,Pakistan is not a benchmark for comparision of Asian batsmen.Kohli may never play a test vs Pakistan ever and still be a ATG.


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