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Thread: Babar Azam versus Lokesh Rahul
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7th March 2017, 17:40 #401
Surprised by how well Rahul has done in such hard conditions. I must say, I thought he would be a burden on the Indian team and that they needed an explosive opener like Dhawan or even Rohit but he's proven me wrong. The character he's shown in these past innings is all what Test match cricket is about.
He's shown absolute resilience, gut and ability. This puts him far, far ahead of Babar as a Test batsman because staying steady in a sinking ship is not something everyone can do. His inconsistency is annoying however. Babar's consistency puts him ahead of Lokesh in ODI's and maybe, with age, he can overtake him in Tests too. But as of now, Rahul is real test match batsman.
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7th March 2017, 17:41 #402
The only doubt about his was his game against spin.
And he proved that in this series.
So all he needs is to cut down risky shots (started doing that already) and his consistency will shoot up.
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
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7th March 2017, 17:48 #403
As of now, I would rate Babar as a better batsman than Rahul but its the development that matters. India seems to develop their batsmen more maturely than we do. They back the talent irrespective of bad performances. While Pakistanis will shoot down even their best batsman if he has 1 bad series. Younis Khan, despite whatever he has achieved, is still look down upon many people in this forum. We have a habit of 1 day hero, the next day 0. So in 10 years time, maybe Rahul would be the better batsman.
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7th March 2017, 18:04 #404
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7th March 2017, 18:34 #405
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7th March 2017, 19:15 #406
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In Nature they call natural selection and it seems that batsman that survive to get to the top in the Ind team are the survivors of this incredible weeding out process. I have only seen a couple of bad Ind palyers-Rathore springs to mind and Mohammed Kaif in tests but as a rule very few bad players ever get into the Ind team.
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7th March 2017, 20:40 #407
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7th March 2017, 20:46 #408
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7th March 2017, 22:30 #409
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7th March 2017, 22:33 #410
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7th March 2017, 23:17 #411
India's top 5:
Vijay
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Doubt any team has as good top 5 as India has. The best part is that they all are entering into their peak years with Vijay already in.
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8th March 2017, 03:43 #412
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8th March 2017, 05:51 #413
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Yep Virat struggled against west indies in his debut series but he turned the tide soon enough to become Virat of today.But not sure about Babar as i think he is a very limited player.
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8th March 2017, 05:56 #414
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8th March 2017, 06:15 #415
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8th March 2017, 07:18 #416
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8th March 2017, 07:22 #417
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8th March 2017, 20:01 #418
Thanks for the kind words .
it was easier to predict back then , with T20s coming in its difficult to say how a batsmen will adapt to three different formats now . Some players may cope well , the shorter format could help their overall game , but in some cases its possible while trying to develop their T20 game some bad habits may creep into their test batting .
KL and Babar are two batsmen I have backed way back from the u-19 days . I have been calling for Babars inclusion for a while now , happy hes been picked . Rahul is probably the one Indian batsmen I have been most confident of making it big after Virat .
if I have to compare between the two KL is ahead in every aspect . Technique there is no comparison , unfortunately for Babar his batting ( Gap between bat pad and playing away from body ) has similarities to other Akmal brothers to be consistent in longer formats . Not the best against spin either . He should do better than Umer though and at his best may average 45+ in tests . In the shorter formats , again unfortunately he did not inherit the power game from Akmal brothers which probably was fine had he debuted in 2005 , but a big factor these days . Statistically he could be a 45-50 average player in ODIs , but with not the same impact your expect from your best batsmen .
KL obviously I have watched him much closely , his ability to score when everyone is struggling is not new . you check scorecards of matches where his teams , be it Ind-U19 , Karnataka or Ind A have struggled and see his score in such matches you will see a pattern . Apart from that there are few other things hes already world class . Ability to score big , I dont think we have seen that yet in Intl cricket . The other thing being his game under pressure , hes been nervy and played some reckless shots but thats not due to the match situation . When the team really needs him , hes capable of either scoring 10 rpo or tuk tuk for couple of sessions .
if he lives up to his potential , probably the one batsmen who can challenge Virat in all three formats .
imo Rahul will be a notch or two above Babar in Tests and T20s and ODI's will be a lot closer .
So there is every chance this will go like Viart and Umer comparison , though here I expect Babar also having a very successful career for Pak and end as a Pak great .
" you don't play for the crowd, you play for your country " - MSD
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9th March 2017, 14:34 #419
Thanks for the kind words .
it was easier to predict back then , with T20s coming in its difficult to say how a batsmen will adapt to three different formats now . Some players may cope well , the shorter format could help their overall game , but in some cases its possible while trying to develop their T20 game some bad habits may creep into their test batting .
KL and Babar are two batsmen I have backed way back from the u-19 days . I have been calling for Babars inclusion for a while now , happy hes been picked . Rahul is probably the one Indian batsmen I have been most confident of making it big after Virat .
if I have to compare between the two KL is ahead in every aspect . Technique there is no comparison , unfortunately for Babar his batting ( Gap between bat pad and playing away from body ) has similarities to other Akmal brothers to be consistent in longer formats . Not the best against spin either . He should do better than Umer though and at his best may average 45+ in tests . In the shorter formats , again unfortunately he did not inherit the power game from Akmal brothers which probably was fine had he debuted in 2005 , but a big factor these days . Statistically he could be a 45-50 average player in ODIs , but with not the same impact your expect from your best batsmen .
KL obviously I have watched him much closely , his ability to score when everyone is struggling is not new . you check scorecards of matches where his teams , be it Ind-U19 , Karnataka or Ind A have struggled and see his score in such matches you will see a pattern . Apart from that there are few other things hes already world class . Ability to score big , I dont think we have seen that yet in Intl cricket . The other thing being his game under pressure , hes been nervy and played some reckless shots but thats not due to the match situation . When the team really needs him , hes capable of either scoring 10 rpo or tuk tuk for couple of sessions .
if he lives up to his potential , probably the one batsmen who can challenge Virat in all three formats .
imo Rahul will be a notch or two above Babar in Tests and T20s and ODI's will be a lot closer .
So there is every chance this will go like Viart and Umer comparison , though here I expect Babar also having a very successful career for Pak and end as a Pak great .
- See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...48#post9142748
" you don't play for the crowd, you play for your country " - MSD
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9th March 2017, 15:15 #420
Both are great batsmen, but Babar Azam is better at the moment.
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9th March 2017, 17:08 #421
" you don't play for the crowd, you play for your country " - MSD
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9th March 2017, 17:28 #422
Rahul and Azam are in the same tier as prospects.
I rate both highly.
Azam is one of those prospects who'd actually fit nicely into the Indian system if he was born on that side of the border.
PAK has a real gem in him and likewise with Rahul for IND.
May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.
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9th March 2017, 17:39 #423
why compare Babar with Rahul?
Rahul is almost 25. compare the inconsistent Rahul with someone of his age group, like Shehzad
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9th March 2017, 17:45 #424
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9th March 2017, 18:20 #425
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Both have a long way to go to be even considered decent, rahul needs to sort his injury issues, i can't say much about babar as i have not seen him play much. Also with a bit of time we will see bowlers find their weak spots that is when we will see if either is capable of Future ATG status that many seem to think they are.
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9th March 2017, 19:17 #426
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Any good reasons except blind love for Rating Babar as better atm ? also Rahul would be better in 10 years time ? Really ? I'm sure Rahul is already ahead if not I can say maybe within a year or so things would be quite clear , where are you getting the magical number of 10 years ?
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9th March 2017, 22:40 #427
Obviously Rahul is going too look so much better when Babar isn't even playing, so unfair on Babar to bump this thread when he's not playing. Saying that as it stands,in tests Rahul is just ahead whilst in LO Babar is the better player.
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9th March 2017, 23:06 #428
Babar needs to improve his power-hitting. For this, he doesn't need to lift big but rather, make some technical adjustments. He has the base and the bat speed but not the swing yet. If he doesn't, he will remain an Amla/Williamson type ODI/T20 player. Good numbers, but not the impact and regardless of how much time he spends at the crease, he won't be a threat to the opposition.
Rahul is pretty much there already. It is only a matter of experience now and achieving a certain mental zone. He is extremely gifted and a complete batsman already. When he bats well, he looks better than anyone in his team including Kohli. In a few years, I don't see anyone challenging him as an opener across all three formats.
It is not a shame to admit that at the moment, he is above Babar in every single aspect of batting. That obviously does not mean that Babar cannot match him in the long run. As I have stated multiple time already, no better batsman has emerged from Pakistan since Mohammad Yousuf in the late 1990s. He has all the gifts for batting - hand-eye, ideal height, balance, loose but powerful wrists and bat speed. Just needs minor technical adjustments and he will be right up there. Nonetheless, that is the biggest challenge for him. Pakistan does not understand batting and how it works, but no one is better than Indian when it comes to developing batsmen. Rahul has an incomparably superior environment to thrive in, which is why the likes of Mickey and other qualified foreign coaches need to be at the helm during the first few years of Babar's development.
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9th March 2017, 23:10 #429
Everyone saw enough of Babar in the PSL and the things he needs to improve on. He does not have Rahul's extra gear at the moment, and is thus superior in all three formats for now. He will struggle to score 110 in 50 balls against any opposition in any ground, that is just not his game. However, there isn't an innings that Babar has played in any format that cannot be replicated by Rahul.
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9th March 2017, 23:14 #430
Yes clearly Rahul has more gears than Babar, but KL has gotten of too good starts and than thrown it away. More than likely he will come good but at least Babar once in can get big scores.
Tbf KL hasn't played enough LO cricket for India. Even on difficult pitches in the current series ** Australia, he looks Indias best player. Which shows how talented he is.
I think under Arthur, Babar can improve and learn how to go up the gears.
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9th March 2017, 23:29 #431
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I agree , I find Babar as one of the finest batting talent's since Inzamam. I never believed in the hype of U Akmal and rightly so. I think Babar needs time to be properly groomed and himself get the confidence and understanding to play longer innings .
Rahul is definitely ahead at this point but they are both quite early in thei LOI careers . Rahul does have more gears and can hit the big ones , Babar needs to improve upon that.
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10th March 2017, 02:17 #432
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10th March 2017, 03:29 #433
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I gotta admit this ongoing series is the first time I saw Rahul and he looks a cut above the rest of his teammates.
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10th March 2017, 04:25 #434
Indians seem more worried about Babar's future than Pakistanis.:
A skilled hawk conceals its talons.
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10th March 2017, 06:56 #435
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10th March 2017, 09:20 #436
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10th March 2017, 09:24 #437
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10th March 2017, 09:30 #438
Babar is already world class in ODI, he will make ODI squad of any team in the world right now
Only delusional Indians underrate Babar
joint fastest to 1000 ODI runs, youngest to score 3 consecutive ODI 100s, only 8th in the history to do that. Plus averaged over 50 in Australia ODI series as well.
He's better than any Indian ODI batsman except Kohli himself.
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10th March 2017, 11:00 #439
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10th March 2017, 12:11 #440
only less knowledgable people like you would say that
Umar had a good start but not nearly as good as Babar
I'm pretty sure you have not watched any game where Babar played, especially the last ODI series
Babar is averaging near 60 in ODIs since the start of 2016, and that's the 6th highest average in that period, numbers don't lie
If you still don't wanna accept it as world class ODI stats then you have the choice to be delusional
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10th March 2017, 13:55 #441
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10th March 2017, 13:58 #442
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A guy whose Test average is 27, and ODI avg of 53. We can just assume one of them is a serious anomaly.
Babar Azam has nearly 50% of his ODI runs against minnows (Zim, Ireland and a depleted WI).
Just the similar route of hyping Umar Akmal beyond all things when he started, same thing being done with Babar Azam.
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10th March 2017, 13:58 #443
well by that logic, Yasir was the fastest Asian to reach 100 test wickets, he is not world class either? he had a bad series in Australai where 90% spinners struggle, but besides that he's world class
but according to your biased opinion no Pakistani is world class only Indians are world class
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10th March 2017, 14:01 #444
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10th March 2017, 14:21 #445
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10th March 2017, 14:22 #446
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10th March 2017, 14:29 #447
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10th March 2017, 15:04 #448
Babar beats him in fitness not technically though,also in Indian team its not easy for a batsman to break into at age 22 because most of time we have settled batting unit so not sure why that point was brought in.
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10th March 2017, 15:18 #449
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If you think Babar will get into any team in the world, you are deluded. If he somehow does get into a team like Australia, Babar would've been dropped for eternity if he played 'me, me' like he did against Australia.
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10th March 2017, 15:19 #450
I was the earliest supporters of Babar Azam when most people couldn't see he was special. A few years ago, In a thread talking about the best upcoming youngsters in the world, i very clearly mentioned that no upcoming youngster comes even close to his ability with the bat. I was proved right more or less. At that time many people used to rate players like litton das above Babar.
Now that Babar has well and truly announced himself at the international scene, I feel he has a lot of room to improve to be counted among the big boys. He cannot live off that tag of best upcoming youngster always. He has performed quite well in his short career so far and credit to him for that.
I know it's still early days for him but as he moves from the early part of his career into the early-middle part, he needs to start stamping his authority every now and then. He is scoring runs no doubt but apart from scoring those runs consistently, the time is approaching where he will have to play an innings every now and then where he holds the game from the scruff of the neck and takes his team over the line when others are struggling.
He needs to develop power hitting because at this point of time, his 70-80 scores is just able to keep the team on track for a while but they are incapable of taking the team over the line. The final push never arrives. He needs to improve it and i am sure he can do it with time. We just need to be patient. Till then he is just a good player for Pak.
Fans are impatient though. Some think he is already a world beater and some think he will never be a great player. As of now, both are wrong.
As far as comparisons with KL rahul are concerned, KL seems to be more developed with a better all round game. He scores when others are struggling , glimpses of which Babar too showed in NZ test series in much more hostile conditions for subcontinent players. KL rahul ,right now, is a player who can score a 25 ball 50 in t20s, an 80 ball 100 in ODIs and 200 ball 100 in tests regularly. Babar, at this stage, cannot do that. That doesn't mean that he will never be able to do that.
I think Babar's game has a terrific base. His wrists are strong, his hand eye coordination is great and he can play amazing shots. It is up to him to develop into a batsman who can be counted among the best players in the world and not remain a good player for Pakistan. Just be patient with him as he enters the next phase of his career where people will begin to know who he is.
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10th March 2017, 15:27 #451
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This should be bookmarked for now.Indians are not jealous. Rahul is way way better than Babar stats not withstanding. Indians produce world class batsman like a machine.We have an eye for identifying batting talent.You may now feel that we are biased but if you are honest you would understand what we meant after few years.Even if Babar indeed improves to be world class we wouldn't be jealous because we aren't saying he is not a batsman to watch out for.
Last edited by Pollack; 10th March 2017 at 15:29.
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10th March 2017, 15:27 #452
how can you use "regularly" and "Rahul" in the same sentence, guy is the definition of inconsistency, hve been inconsistent in all formats, does nothing for 2-3 games and scores a 100 and everyone starts talking about how good he is, he turning 25 approaching his peak, should be more consistent to truly become great, otherwise he'll join the ranks of Dhawan which is likely.
By the time Babar reaches 25th birthday he'll be averaging 50 in ODIs and tests and atleast 40 in t20s.
All he need to do is keep his head up and work hard.
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10th March 2017, 15:38 #453
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10th March 2017, 15:39 #454
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10th March 2017, 15:39 #455
Rahul is easily ahead in tests. Babar has a poor start to his test career.
Rahul is yet to make a mark in odis but he won't take long to become an established player as per ths looks of things now.
Can someone bring me some of the good knocks Babar played as of now in odis excluding the likes of WI and minnows?
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10th March 2017, 15:41 #456
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10th March 2017, 15:43 #457
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10th March 2017, 15:50 #458
The level of baiting by a poster makes me wonder,who has reincarnated.
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10th March 2017, 15:51 #459
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10th March 2017, 15:54 #460
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10th March 2017, 15:55 #461
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10th March 2017, 15:58 #462
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10th March 2017, 16:02 #463
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10th March 2017, 16:04 #464
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10th March 2017, 16:07 #465
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10th March 2017, 16:10 #466
it was expected that Pakistan will lose the series, because Pakistan is a much weaker side as compared to Australia the world champions.
Saying Babar averaging near 60 against world champions at their home grounds is nothing special, is same as saying Tendulkar was not good enough in the 90s when he scored 100s and India lost matches.
The level of jealousy, deluison is so strong that Indians don't wanna say Rahul is not as good as Babar in ODIs
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10th March 2017, 16:11 #467
The conditions were very difficult for batsmen home or not, and lots of applications were needed to require for staying there at the crease let alone scoring.Renshaw's 60 odd in first inning was equivalent to 130s.Such hard was it to sustain.
Rahul's knock won them the match when India were under severe pressure first time at home in really tough testing conditions against a quality bowling attack. Remember, the pitch had assistance for pacers too.
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10th March 2017, 16:14 #468
Australians did not grow up on those rank turners, Indians did, Indians were always more likely to succeed on rank turners against Australian bowling that is weaker as compared to Indians in Asia.
NZ bowlers grew up on green mambas, that's why it was more difficult to bat, Pakistan played in UAE pitches which are not green mambas
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10th March 2017, 16:15 #469
I think I praised Babar in my very last post.There is no delusion here. Rahul has done nothing in odis of note and Babar is obviously ahead but Rahul has still managed give the assurance of a guy who won't take long to become an established odi player.
Babar is obviously Pakistan's by far best odi bat I have said. So not sure what is the issue there. There is no point of jealousy as India already have Kohli and Rohit as two established odi players.
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10th March 2017, 16:18 #470
Pakistan's best "current" odi bat
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10th March 2017, 16:24 #471
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10th March 2017, 16:29 #472
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10th March 2017, 16:32 #473
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10th March 2017, 16:39 #474
Yeah..He has to work on his fitness. I agree with this part but as a batsmen Dhawan always looked like someone who got runs inconsistently but never gave the assurance of performing whenever he came to bat and eventually turn out to be dud.
However, he is still a good odi player IMO.He did really well in that CT 2013 and WC 15 in England and Australia respectively.
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10th March 2017, 16:39 #475
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10th March 2017, 16:44 #476
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10th March 2017, 16:51 #477
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For starters rahul from early part of his career was picked by many as a possible future indian star, dhawan was always a hack who got a chance because our openers at that time weren't good enough. Also dhawan iirc also has a century in nz, a more apt comparison methinks.
Also if 23 odi's is enough to call azam a worldclass player should be 6 tests with avg of 27 be enough to call him a rubbish test player, normally i would wait until atleast a guy has played 30-40 odd tests before calling him anything but since we are playing by your rules, i think 20 odis and 5-6 tests seem apt for equal comparison.
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10th March 2017, 16:57 #478
leave scoring runs to one side, I think Rahul can't even stay fit for 1 year straight playing all formats, he'll get injured again soon, and it won't be a surprise because he is actually injury prone, those cramps in the current series are an indication of that, soon he'll get injured
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10th March 2017, 17:04 #479
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Now now my friend don't squirm out of the question i asked answer it or should i repeat it again, if 23 odis are enough to call someone worldclass aren't by the same logic 6 tests enough to call the same person rubbish if you disagree please tell us why,and now on to the injuries, firstly injuries have nothing to do with runs or how good a batsman is, yes rahul has injury issues and i have said so in my earlier post regarding this comparison between players but that doesn't stop or count against what he has achieved. Starc jus got injured of nth time doesn't stop him from still being a feared bowler same with rahul.
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10th March 2017, 17:12 #480
Rahul has done nothing extraordinary in tests, he was avaeraging 12 in the 2nd innings before the last match
he have not broken any records like Babar have achieved in ODI
If someone is injury prone how can he achive greatness, don't bring Starc in the conversation he is a tall well built fast bowler that requires a lot of energy to bowl.
Rahul is already injury prone at the beginning of his career, those cramps don't lie, he'll get injured and no one will be surprised
his inconsistency is out of this world
Those belter pitches in England ODIs couldn't help Rahul to get going, he failed miserably in that series