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  1. #1
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    Younis Khan - 10,000 Test Runs [Ultimate Countdown Thread]

    Here we go.

    The man. The legend himself. Arguably the greatest Test batsman to come out of the country.

    Already has the most Test runs for a Pakistani, overtaking Javed Miandad as well as Inzamam just recently.

    Supreme average of 53.94 for his 9116 Test runs with a beastly HS of 313*. Has played 100+ Tests.

    Boasts a Test century against every single Test-playing nation and has scored one in every country bar Australia (has a chance to fix that this winter).

    So which record does YK currently not hold? That's right. 10k Test runs.

    Need just under 900 runs to achieve the milestone. Is currently 38 years of age according to his official age.

    This thread is not about his real age. It's not about his media antics. It's not about his ODI form.

    It's a countdown to the legend reaching the feat of 10,000 Test runs - something very few people have achieved, no Pakistanis included.

    We play 11 Tests this year and another 10 next year. Great chance for Younis to get there.

    All the best YK!


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  2. #2
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    The only way he achieves that this year is by bashing Windies in UAE.

    That average is about to plummet.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  3. #3
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    Will get it simply because he wants to drag on his career for 2 more years according to him, and PCB is too spineless to tell him otherwise irrespective of form, so he will huff and puff to 10k.


    Swing it like Akram, whack it like Afridi, live it like Inti.

  4. #4
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    Good luck team man! We need ur runs


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  5. #5
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    A selfish person who abused his legendary test match credentials to unfairly impose himself on the team for selection in the 2015 WC where his selection cost the team extremely dearly.

  6. #6
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    Hope he retires after the England tour.

  7. #7
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    Pakistan's greatest test batsmen salute to the king... all the greats have haters...stay salty my friends

  8. #8
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    Lol at greatest Test batsman.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Lol at greatest Test batsman.
    not going to waste my energy on you

  10. #10
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    This man is the personification of the statement that stats aren't everything.


    Swing it like Akram, whack it like Afridi, live it like Inti.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakpukhtun View Post
    not going to waste my energy on you
    Miadad was the greatest yk did not even face the same caliber of bowlers...

  12. #12
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    Unlike Misbah, Younis does not deserve a good farewell and an honorable retirement. He is not worthy of it.

  13. #13
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    Dont buy Younis Khan being our best ever test batsman.

  14. #14
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    Pakistan's best test batsman after miandad. He may not have that flair and charisma of inzamam of Younis but he makes up his shortcomings with sheer determination and grit. In the end runs matter and that he scores in truckloads.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakpukhtun View Post
    Pakistan's greatest test batsmen salute to the king... all the greats have haters...stay salty my friends
    agree with you he is Pakistans greatest test player and believe me when he will score 100s against England the haters will either says the pitch is flat or he is scoring runs because Anderson is not playing
    People are comparing his cricket abilities with daily life behaviour which is wrong and they should only consider what he do on the cricket ground rather than what he do off the field.
    it is not important atleast in Pakistan cricket that you have to be great cricketer as well as great human being because there is so much politics and other dirty things are involved in and off the field which either make you a good person or bad person in the eyes of people

  16. #16
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    There is a good reason why he did not find his feet in Test cricket till 2005 when he was around 30 years old.

    He was not good enough for most of the 90's bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, McGrath and Warne to name a few.

    Watching him bat in the West Indies in 2000, in South Africa 2002/2003 and against Australia in Sharjah in 2002 really summed up his lack of class against ATG level bowlers.

    It wasn't until most of those greats retired that he started to become a prolific run scorer in Test cricket.

    Got some good scores in Australia in 2004 but he was outplayed by the likes of Butt and MoYo.

    Really good player of spin though, which was obvious from his debut when he scored a brilliant hundred against Muralitharan.

    Nonetheless, he has been helped immensely buy the fact that he has only played 16 Tests in Australia, England and South Africa collectively over 16 years.

    For reference:

    Kohli has played 15 matches in these countries already and he debuted in 2011

    Rahane has played 11 matches in these countries already and he debuted in 2013

    This is a startling stat and shows how little cricket he has played in these countries, which has helped him boosts his numbers tremendously.

    He has had it very easy in the last 6 years with Pakistan only touring one world class team (South Africa 2013) where he went missing on the fast and bouncy wickets of Johannesburg and Centurion and scored only on the Subcontinent-like dry and slow Cape Town pitch.


    In the few good tours that he has had, such as Australia 2004, England 2006 and perhaps South Africa 2007, the like of MoYo have either overshadowed him or played better individual innings.

    Younis is nowhere near ATG category and is a Pakistan great only because of the sheer volume of his runs.

    Otherwise he has been nothing special apart from his unorthodox skill against spin bowling.

    He has no standout away performances where he has dominated the series and emerged as Pakistan's best batsman.

    As a batsman, he is well behind Miandad, Inzamam, Saeed Anwar, MoYo, Zaheer Abbas and Saleem Malik to name a few.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 1st July 2016 at 00:36.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is a good reason why he did not find his feet in Test cricket till 2005 when he was around 30 years old.

    He was not good enough for most of the 90's bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, McGrath and Warne to name a few.

    Watching him bat in the West Indies in 2000, in South Africa 2002/2003 and against Australia in Sharjah in 2002 really summed up his lack of class against ATG level bowlers.

    It wasn't until most of those greats retired that he started to become a prolific run scorer in Test cricket.

    Got some good scores in Australia in 2004 but he was outplayed by the likes of Butt and MoYo.

    Really good player of spin though, which was obvious from his debut when he scored a brilliant hundred against Muralitharan.

    Nonetheless, he has been helped immensely buy the fact that he has only played 16 Tests in Australia, England and South Africa collectively over 16 years.

    For reference:

    Kohli has played 15 matches in these countries already and he debuted in 2011

    Rahane has played 11 matches in these countries already and he debuted in 2013

    This is a startling stat and shows how little cricket he has played in these countries, which has helped him boosts his numbers tremendously.

    He has had it very easy in the last 6 years with Pakistan only touring one world class team (South Africa 2013) where he went missing on the fast and bouncy wickets of Johannesburg and Centurion and scored only on the Subcontinent-like dry and slow Cape Town pitch.


    In the few good tours that he has had, such as Australia 2004, England 2006 and perhaps South Africa 2007, the like of MoYo have either overshadowed him or played better individual innings.

    Younis is nowhere near ATG category and is a Pakistan great only because of the sheer volume of his runs.

    Otherwise he has been nothing special apart from his unorthodox skill against spin bowling.

    He has no standout away performances where he has dominated the series and emerged as Pakistan's best batsman.

    As a batsman, he is well behind Miandad, Inzamam, Saeed Anwar, MoYo, Zaheer Abbas and Saleem Malik to name a few.
    Correct on a lot of points.

    It's at times nauseating when people term YK as our best Test bat, giving status and titles he haven't earned.


    At the end of a stressful, depressing day, a dose of cricket is what can cheer us up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is a good reason why he did not find his feet in Test cricket till 2005 when he was around 30 years old.

    He was not good enough for most of the 90's bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock, McGrath and Warne to name a few.

    Watching him bat in the West Indies in 2000, in South Africa 2002/2003 and against Australia in Sharjah in 2002 really summed up his lack of class against ATG level bowlers.

    It wasn't until most of those greats retired that he started to become a prolific run scorer in Test cricket.

    Got some good scores in Australia in 2004 but he was outplayed by the likes of Butt and MoYo.

    Really good player of spin though, which was obvious from his debut when he scored a brilliant hundred against Muralitharan.

    Nonetheless, he has been helped immensely buy the fact that he has only played 16 Tests in Australia, England and South Africa collectively over 16 years.

    For reference:

    Kohli has played 15 matches in these countries already and he debuted in 2011

    Rahane has played 11 matches in these countries already and he debuted in 2013

    This is a startling stat and shows how little cricket he has played in these countries, which has helped him boosts his numbers tremendously.

    He has had it very easy in the last 6 years with Pakistan only touring one world class team (South Africa 2013) where he went missing on the fast and bouncy wickets of Johannesburg and Centurion and scored only on the Subcontinent-like dry and slow Cape Town pitch.


    In the few good tours that he has had, such as Australia 2004, England 2006 and perhaps South Africa 2007, the like of MoYo have either overshadowed him or played better individual innings.

    Younis is nowhere near ATG category and is a Pakistan great only because of the sheer volume of his runs.

    Otherwise he has been nothing special apart from his unorthodox skill against spin bowling.

    He has no standout away performances where he has dominated the series and emerged as Pakistan's best batsman.

    As a batsman, he is well behind Miandad, Inzamam, Saeed Anwar, MoYo, Zaheer Abbas and Saleem Malik to name a few.
    Fully agree with this. Should never be call our greatest test batsmen

  19. #19
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    I rate moyo higher than yk

  20. #20
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    A damn good bat who has had his reputation tarnished by his irratic behaviour with respect to a format he was never good at. Not better than Miandad and Inzi in my eyes, while on-par or even slightly better than Yousuf.

    One of the best this country has produced though. Hugely indebted to this gentleman for a stable Test team in the recent years.

    People saying he has built his reputation on weaker bowling attacks in the recent past would do well to reconsider the lavish praise for the likes of Amla, Kohli, ABD etc. YK has his own skill-set which is mighty effective and has won my country many matches. That's all that matters in the end. Hopefully this legend retires on a high, as Pakistan bids farewell to the last world-class batsman this country will produce for a few years for sure.

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  21. #21
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    In case someone is taking a dig at the OP, I mentioned 'arguably the greatest', which would be correct to say IMO, since this thread is dedicated to him.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Unlike Misbah, Younis does not deserve a good farewell and an honorable retirement. He is not worthy of it.
    Can't help but laugh at his fans. Would be quite embarrassing if he reaches the milestone.


    You gotta work until your idols become your rivals.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdul View Post
    Can't help but laugh at his fans. Would be quite embarrassing if he reaches the milestone.
    Another dig?

    Was supposed to be a positive thread keeping track of his progess but alas...


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Another dig?

    Was supposed to be a positive thread keeping track of his progess but alas...
    Fans will return to normal once the series starts. YK will find a way to score runs and its hard NOT to like someone who is giving your side the best chance of competing.

    YK has himself to blame for whats happening here though. His antics in the past few years regarding ODI cricket has left a bitter taste.

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  25. #25
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    Younis has been a good batsmen for us. He has ground out his runs and played really well off the spinners. Azhar and asad have benefited a lot from playing with him.

    His attitude and the fact he struggled against the top seam attacks more importantly put me off calling him our best test bat. But he has qualities in his batting that should be admired and respected. I think his antics have annoyed pakistan fans.

    He will carry on playing till he has 10 thousand runs but after the Australian series weather he has 10k runs or not I would like him to retire after that series. We cannot have him around the team forever we need to move on eventually. A good batsmen for us no doubt especially in the test format, but not up there with Inzi,Moyo,Anwar,Zaheer Abbas,Mindad.
    Last edited by Hasan123; 1st July 2016 at 02:49.

  26. #26
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    Why so much hate vs Younis? He is a definitely better test bat than HTB+ minnow basher Yousuf. At least Younis has done well in fourth inning and has done decently outside Asia too.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Another dig?

    Was supposed to be a positive thread keeping track of his progess but alas...
    Don't worry, IA YK will give a shut call with his bat to every one.

    Hope he gets 10K runs in next 11 games.


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Why so much hate vs Younis? He is a definitely better test bat than HTB+ minnow basher Yousuf. At least Younis has done well in fourth inning and has done decently outside Asia too.
    He deserves it to be honest, his actions in the last couple of years have been pathetic.

    As a batsman, it is a bit of an atrocity to call him Pakistan's greatest ever.

    MoYo was not an ATG either, but it is not right to call him a HTB while not using the same connotation for Younis.

    MoYo has greater and more iconic innings than Younis in places like Australia and England.

    No innings of Younis in these places matches up to MoYo's 111 at the MCG, 192 at Leeds and 202 at Lord's.

    It is also important to note that when you look at the matches both of them played together, Yousuf largely outperformed Younis, simply because he was a better batsman.

    Yousuf's career was over by 2010 and he did not get the chance to play 90% of the Tests in the next 6 years on UAE pitches against some pretty mediocre spinners and quality pacers who were completely nullified by the flatness of the pitches, other than when South Africa tampered with the ball in 2013, a series where Younis could not lay bat on ball.

    Had MoYo played Tests from 2010-2016, not only would he be statistically Pakistan's best batsman, he would also have continued to outperform Younis.

    It's a shame that he got into a tangle with the board in 2007 which pushed him towards the ICL and that was the end of his career.

    He was set to have a career like Sangakkara and today there would be no discussion over Younis vs MoYo.

    This of course is without taking into account the fact that MoYo was 10x the ODI batsman as well.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He deserves it to be honest, his actions in the last couple of years have been pathetic.

    As a batsman, it is a bit of an atrocity to call him Pakistan's greatest ever.

    MoYo was not an ATG either, but it is not right to call him a HTB while not using the same connotation for Younis.

    MoYo has greater and more iconic innings than Younis in places like Australia and England.

    No innings of Younis in these places matches up to MoYo's 111 at the MCG, 192 at Leeds and 202 at Lord's.

    It is also important to note that when you look at the matches both of them played together, Yousuf largely outperformed Younis, simply because he was a better batsman.

    Yousuf's career was over by 2010 and he did not get the chance to play 90% of the Tests in the next 6 years on UAE pitches against some pretty mediocre spinners and quality pacers who were completely nullified by the flatness of the pitches, other than when South Africa tampered with the ball in 2013, a series where Younis could not lay bat on ball.

    Had MoYo played Tests from 2010-2016, not only would he be statistically Pakistan's best batsman, he would also have continued to outperform Younis.

    It's a shame that he got into a tangle with the board in 2007 which pushed him towards the ICL and that was the end of his career.

    He was set to have a career like Sangakkara and today there would be no discussion over Younis vs MoYo.

    This of course is without taking into account the fact that MoYo was 10x the ODI batsman as well.
    In odis it's not a comparison. But in tests Moyo has failed completely in both Aus and SA. He has done brilliantly in England only which didn't had that great attack in 00s. Younis hasn't been tested much outside Asia but did well everywhere except SA. What sets apart Yoni from Moyo is the ability to deliver under pressure. Most Pak fans also don't consider Moyo that clutch and he did preferred home pitches compared to away ones. His attitude and team spirit are other things but as cricketer he has obvious reasons to be rated as high as Moyo.

  30. #30
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    As a batsmen at least..

  31. #31
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    He is a legend but nowhere close to Miandad,Zaheer or Inzi in terms of pure class.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    In odis it's not a comparison. But in tests Moyo has failed completely in both Aus and SA. He has done brilliantly in England only which didn't had that great attack in 00s. Younis hasn't been tested much outside Asia but did well everywhere except SA. What sets apart Yoni from Moyo is the ability to deliver under pressure. Most Pak fans also don't consider Moyo that clutch and he did preferred home pitches compared to away ones. His attitude and team spirit are other things but as cricketer he has obvious reasons to be rated as high as Moyo.
    Tbf to MoYo, YK hasn't had much success in Aus and SA too..

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seller1984 View Post
    Miadad was the greatest yk did not even face the same caliber of bowlers...
    Miandad's record against the then West Indians bowlers was ordinary.

  34. #34
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    Our best ever Test batsman, will smash centuries in England and Australia, we will win both the series, and he will officially cement his place as our best Test batsman ever.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Unlike Misbah, Younis does not deserve a good farewell and an honorable retirement. He is not worthy of it.
    It is Ramadan and i am fasting, so I will keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and clearly you have a dislike for Younis, but when you make deliberately inflammatory statements you need to be corrected. I have been reading your comments for many years now and it's clear your views are based more on personal biases rather than cricketing knowledge. Which other Pakistsni batsmen has 100's in every country, over 30 test match hundreds, one of the few batsmen to average closet to 50 in all 4 innings of a test match. I have watched Pakistan cricket for more than 45 years and he is by far the most accomplished test batsmen we have produced. I don't care about style or class or anything but for the sheer weight of important test runs for Pakistan there is no one comparable. He was a mediocre odi batsmen but to take away from his test service to Pakistan is simply to play the typical desi game of letting personal biases ignore merit.

  36. #36
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    I am well aware of manipulating statistics to back up preconceived conclusions. The argument you use can be applied to almost any batsmen. Miandad didn't score runs in England until after Botham and Willis were past their peak. Inzimam was joke in SAf against Donald and dvilliers. YK Ascension in 2005 had lesser to do with the passing of those bowlers and more to do with Woolmers arrival and a secure role in the team. He has runs against steyn, Harmison (at his peak in 2006), even has a decent score in Australia in his limited exposure there.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Tbf to MoYo, YK hasn't had much success in Aus and SA too..
    Yes but Yk has scored against Aus in subcontinent while Moyo was a failure whenever he faced Aus and SA with average below 30 against them. Also most Pak fans regard Moyo as not so good under pressure while Yk is a fine pressure player. This is one thing where YK scores over him. Both have done good amount of minnow bashing and also thrive more on subcontinent pitches.

  38. #38
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    Here we go with Moyo numbers:

    Aus- avgs 26
    SA- avgs 29
    SL- avgs 29
    Ban- avgs 250
    Zim- avgs 68

    He has been superb vs WI and Eng but found missing against three top bowling attacks. Just like Yoni or even more he boosted his stats against zim and ban.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 1st July 2016 at 14:33.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Nonetheless, he has been helped immensely buy the fact that he has only played 16 Tests in Australia, England and South Africa collectively over 16 years.
    Is that his fault that we played less test cricket in those countries? Whose to say that he wouldn't have gotten better in those playing conditions had Pakistan played more test cricket outside Asia?

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He deserves it to be honest, his actions in the last couple of years have been pathetic.

    As a batsman, it is a bit of an atrocity to call him Pakistan's greatest ever.

    MoYo was not an ATG either, but it is not right to call him a HTB while not using the same connotation for Younis.

    MoYo has greater and more iconic innings than Younis in places like Australia and England.

    No innings of Younis in these places matches up to MoYo's 111 at the MCG, 192 at Leeds and 202 at Lord's.

    It is also important to note that when you look at the matches both of them played together, Yousuf largely outperformed Younis, simply because he was a better batsman.

    Yousuf's career was over by 2010 and he did not get the chance to play 90% of the Tests in the next 6 years on UAE pitches against some pretty mediocre spinners and quality pacers who were completely nullified by the flatness of the pitches, other than when South Africa tampered with the ball in 2013, a series where Younis could not lay bat on ball.

    Had MoYo played Tests from 2010-2016, not only would he be statistically Pakistan's best batsman, he would also have continued to outperform Younis.

    It's a shame that he got into a tangle with the board in 2007 which pushed him towards the ICL and that was the end of his career.

    He was set to have a career like Sangakkara and today there would be no discussion over Younis vs MoYo.

    This of course is without taking into account the fact that MoYo was 10x the ODI batsman as well.

    I really like the way you make up things.

    Younis and Yousuf played 52 tests together:

    Yousuf = 4559 runs at 54 average with 17 centuries and 15 fifties
    Younis = 4364 runs at 51 average with 13 centuries and 18 fifties

    Let's compare their performance against some teams:
    Australia: Yousuf = 31, Younis = 43
    SA: Yousuf = 38, Younis = 37
    India: Yousuf = 59, Younis = 88
    England: Yousuf = 45, Younis = 45
    SL: Yousuf = 28, Younis = 45
    NZ: Yousuf = 56, Younis = 61
    WI: Yousuf = 101, Younis = 37
    Bangladesh : Yousuf = 276, Younis = 59

    Against, SA and England, Younis and Yousuf had similar performances.
    Against Australia, NZ, India, and SL Younis did better than Yousuf.
    Against WI and Bangladesh, Yousuf did better.

    Yousuf's worst 3 countries are Australia (31), SA(38), SL(33).
    Younis's average in those countries: Australia (43), SA(38), SL(45).
    Again, Younis did better than Yousuf in 2 of those countries.

    In matches won:
    Yousuf averages 57 and Younis averages 71, not even close!

    In 3rd and 4th innings:
    Yousuf averages 42 and 40. Younis averages 48 and 61

    There goes your claim that Yousuf outperformed Younis when they played together.
    Last edited by The_Odd_One; 1st July 2016 at 17:55.

  41. #41
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    One correction in my above post, Younis averaged 28 in SA.

  42. #42
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    When they played together in Asia (excluding UAE and Bangladesh), Yousuf averaged 51 while Younis averaged 56.

    @Mamoon is again wrong in the assessment that had Yousuf played more in UAE like Younis, he would have done better.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I really like the way you make up things.

    Younis and Yousuf played 52 tests together:

    Yousuf = 4559 runs at 54 average with 17 centuries and 15 fifties
    Younis = 4364 runs at 51 average with 13 centuries and 18 fifties

    Let's compare their performance against some teams:
    Australia: Yousuf = 31, Younis = 43
    SA: Yousuf = 38, Younis = 37
    India: Yousuf = 59, Younis = 88
    England: Yousuf = 45, Younis = 45
    SL: Yousuf = 28, Younis = 45
    NZ: Yousuf = 56, Younis = 61
    WI: Yousuf = 101, Younis = 37
    Bangladesh : Yousuf = 276, Younis = 59

    Against, SA and England, Younis and Yousuf had similar performances.
    Against Australia, NZ, India, and SL Younis did better than Yousuf.
    Against WI and Bangladesh, Yousuf did better.

    Yousuf's worst 3 countries are Australia (31), SA(38), SL(33).
    Younis's average in those countries: Australia (43), SA(38), SL(45).
    Again, Younis did better than Yousuf in 2 of those countries.

    In matches won:
    Yousuf averages 57 and Younis averages 71, not even close!

    In 3rd and 4th innings:
    Yousuf averages 42 and 40. Younis averages 48 and 61

    There goes your claim that Yousuf outperformed Younis when they played together.
    Correction on Yousuf numbers- Avgs 26 vs Aus, 29 vs SA and SL..

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Correction on Yousuf numbers- Avgs 26 vs Aus, 29 vs SA and SL..
    I posted numbers from the matches they played together so that nobody can come back and say that Younis feasted on lesser bowlers after Yousuf stopped playing.

  45. #45
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    Ah, YK is surely better than MoYo in the test format.


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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Ah, YK is surely better than MoYo in the test format.
    You forgot to post your ranking graphs.


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  47. #47
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    @The_Odd_One

    I did not memorize their numbers because they do not concern me. In this thread, did I mention their averages anywhere?

    If I go purely on stats, Younis is an ATG and comfortably Pakistan's best Test batsman, but stats don't always portray the true picture and in this case they certainly don't.

    According to you, Younis did better than MoYo on the 2004 Australia tour, which I do not agree with.

    Younis played well but none of his innings were anything special, while MoYo played one of the greatest innings by a Pakistani batsman at the MCG.

    Younis and Butt scored in that innings too, but just compare the difference in class of their innings and that of MoYo's.

    I believe you watched that innings, MoYo put on a show while the others played in his shadow.

    In South Africa in 2006, MoYo played the best innings of the series in the third Test which was also the decider. He scored like 80 runs in the first innings when we were shot for 150 and no other batsman could cross 20.

    In the second Test that we won, Inzamam's 90 in the first innings was also a remarkable innings.

    In the second innings, Younis played well for his 67, but it was Kamran's counter-attacking 50 that took the game away from South Africa.

    In England in 2006, Younis played well but no innings of his come anywhere close to MoYo's show in Leeds and Lord's.

    I am not interested in what the numbers say. Other than the 2005 tour of India where Younis turned his career around at Bangalore with a brilliant 267, he never managed to grow out of the shadow of Inzamam and MoYo who were both superior batsman.

    Younis has no iconic, great innings in places like Australia, South Africa and England. MoYo doesn't have many either but he still has more than Younis.

    Everyone remembers MoYo's MCG innings, Leeds, Lord's etc., Younis' innings are hardly memorable.

    Younis really stood out after they were gone because we did not have any top quality batsmen in the team and his best competitor is Misbah, who is a good batsman at best followed by Azhar and Shafiq.

    Not hard to look world class in such company.

    Anyways, runs in wins/losses etc. is one of the most meaningless stat one can come up with.

    Both of us have followed Younis Khan's career from the start, at least I have. There is no purpose of having a statistical discussion when you have seen the player play.

    I have no doubt in my mind (regardless of what Cricinfo StatsGuru says) that both MoYo and Inzamam were better Test batsmen than Younis and I also have no doubt in my mind that MoYo would have been statistically better than Younis had he filled his boots in the UAE from 2010-2016.

    UAE pitches are heavenly for batting if you are an Asian batsman. There is no thing in it for the pacers and they are not rank-turners either, they are just flat wickets and the likes of MoYo were too good for these wickets.

    Yes on rank-turners, Younis was better than Moyo.

    Other than playing spin, MoYo is better than Younis in all facets of batting.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 1st July 2016 at 21:44.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by samiakh View Post
    It is Ramadan and i am fasting, so I will keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and clearly you have a dislike for Younis, but when you make deliberately inflammatory statements you need to be corrected. I have been reading your comments for many years now and it's clear your views are based more on personal biases rather than cricketing knowledge. Which other Pakistsni batsmen has 100's in every country, over 30 test match hundreds, one of the few batsmen to average closet to 50 in all 4 innings of a test match. I have watched Pakistan cricket for more than 45 years and he is by far the most accomplished test batsmen we have produced. I don't care about style or class or anything but for the sheer weight of important test runs for Pakistan there is no one comparable. He was a mediocre odi batsmen but to take away from his test service to Pakistan is simply to play the typical desi game of letting personal biases ignore merit.
    I am not interested if you keep it civil or not. You have the right to express your opinion and if you have been following my posts for years, you should be aware by now that I don't get offended.

    My dislike for Younis is primarily because of his deplorable attitude in the last few years with the way he kept his place in the ODI side for years at the expense of better candidates.

    The tipping point was the 2015 World Cup.

    He is a selfish and egoistic individual who has blackmailed the selectors and management for a long time to keep his place in the ODI team.

    His ego also got the better of him when he retired from ODIs after the first ODI of the 2015 England series after making himself available for the whole series because he wanted to prove a point and show that he is quitting on his own terms.

    I don't wish to see him get a good farewell because he does not deserve it, unlike Misbah.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashidumair007 View Post
    Is that his fault that we played less test cricket in those countries? Whose to say that he wouldn't have gotten better in those playing conditions had Pakistan played more test cricket outside Asia?

    Sent from my SM-G361H using Tapatalk
    He has only gotten worse against pace over the years. No it is not his fault, but the fault of the people who call him Pakistan's greatest batsman based on stats while not considering other factors.

    No other great Pakistani batsman has had it as easy as Younis in terms of playing conditions, quality of opposition etc.

    He has been very lucky to have played so much cricket in the UAE in the 2010 era.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    In odis it's not a comparison. But in tests Moyo has failed completely in both Aus and SA. He has done brilliantly in England only which didn't had that great attack in 00s. Younis hasn't been tested much outside Asia but did well everywhere except SA. What sets apart Yoni from Moyo is the ability to deliver under pressure. Most Pak fans also don't consider Moyo that clutch and he did preferred home pitches compared to away ones. His attitude and team spirit are other things but as cricketer he has obvious reasons to be rated as high as Moyo.
    MoYo's innings at the MCG in 2004 is worth more than all of Younis' innings in Australia, it was that good.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He deserves it to be honest, his actions in the last couple of years have been pathetic.

    As a batsman, it is a bit of an atrocity to call him Pakistan's greatest ever.

    MoYo was not an ATG either, but it is not right to call him a HTB while not using the same connotation for Younis.

    MoYo has greater and more iconic innings than Younis in places like Australia and England.

    No innings of Younis in these places matches up to MoYo's 111 at the MCG, 192 at Leeds and 202 at Lord's.

    It is also important to note that when you look at the matches both of them played together, Yousuf largely outperformed Younis, simply because he was a better batsman.

    Yousuf's career was over by 2010 and he did not get the chance to play 90% of the Tests in the next 6 years on UAE pitches against some pretty mediocre spinners and quality pacers who were completely nullified by the flatness of the pitches, other than when South Africa tampered with the ball in 2013, a series where Younis could not lay bat on ball.

    Had MoYo played Tests from 2010-2016, not only would he be statistically Pakistan's best batsman, he would also have continued to outperform Younis.

    It's a shame that he got into a tangle with the board in 2007 which pushed him towards the ICL and that was the end of his career.

    He was set to have a career like Sangakkara and today there would be no discussion over Younis vs MoYo.

    This of course is without taking into account the fact that MoYo was 10x the ODI batsman as well.
    The only thing pathetic I see going on is Misbah playing far past his expiry date despite having been a mediocre player in every format of the game when he steps out of the UAE.

    A poor tactician, a poor match winner and a worse captain.

    He is now doing nothing but holding back the development of Babar and Haris...

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I am not interested if you keep it civil or not. You have the right to express your opinion and if you have been following my posts for years, you should be aware by now that I don't get offended.

    My dislike for Younis is primarily because of his deplorable attitude in the last few years with the way he kept his place in the ODI side for years at the expense of better candidates.

    The tipping point was the 2015 World Cup.

    He is a selfish and egoistic individual who has blackmailed the selectors and management for a long time to keep his place in the ODI team.

    His ego also got the better of him when he retired from ODIs after the first ODI of the 2015 England series after making himself available for the whole series because he wanted to prove a point and show that he is quitting on his own terms.

    I don't wish to see him get a good farewell because he does not deserve it, unlike Misbah.
    Damn right I would have been selfish if it meant playing in a World Cup for my country.

    What is worse is Misbah holding on to his place in the team and then replacing himself with an even more mediocre player in the form of Azhar.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    You forgot to post your ranking graphs.
    Most PPers don't pay attention to objective facts. Flair , talent etc is better way here to argue..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I am not interested if you keep it civil or not. You have the right to express your opinion and if you have been following my posts for years, you should be aware by now that I don't get offended.

    My dislike for Younis is primarily because of his deplorable attitude in the last few years with the way he kept his place in the ODI side for years at the expense of better candidates.

    The tipping point was the 2015 World Cup.

    He is a selfish and egoistic individual who has blackmailed the selectors and management for a long time to keep his place in the ODI team.

    His ego also got the better of him when he retired from ODIs after the first ODI of the 2015 England series after making himself available for the whole series because he wanted to prove a point and show that he is quitting on his own terms.

    I don't wish to see him get a good farewell because he does not deserve it, unlike Misbah.
    Not to mention beating one of his own fans by dragging him to the locker room and unloading on him there, chickening out of captaincy, going on a fishing trip when we needed him...

    Misbah might not be as great of a test batsman (not that far behind either) but he did his duty with honor and served Pakistan with full dedication.


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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He has only gotten worse against pace over the years. No it is not his fault, but the fault of the people who call him Pakistan's greatest batsman based on stats while not considering other factors.

    No other great Pakistani batsman has had it as easy as Younis in terms of playing conditions, quality of opposition etc.

    He has been very lucky to have played so much cricket in the UAE in the 2010 era.
    That could be due to his age.

    I agree that people who call him that are fault but still statistically & arguably he is one of Pakistan's great test bats.

    Again you're making it sound like it's his fault & on rare occasions he has played outside Asia he has shown that he could have performed decently if not great had he played more tests outside Asia through sheer grit & determination.

    That's not luck but unfortunate circumstances because had he played more outside Asia in his whole test career, he might have had a better chance at performing decently in England in 2016.

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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    MoYo's innings at the MCG in 2004 is worth more than all of Younis' innings in Australia, it was that good.
    Younis scored 87 in the same inning too while batting up the order after the fall of two early wickets along with Salman butt. Moyo Knock was no special as you are stating. I am no fan of either of two but clearly you have to be biased to rate Yousuf over Younis in test format.

  57. #57
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    It's not all about stats. Stats are significant if one knows how to use it.Younis is obviously behind Miandad or Dravid and is no ATG either. However, he is better than Yousuf and as good as Inzi in longer format.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    @The_Odd_One

    I did not memorize their numbers because they do not concern me. In this thread, did I mention their averages anywhere?

    If I go purely on stats, Younis is an ATG and comfortably Pakistan's best Test batsman, but stats don't always portray the true picture and in this case they certainly don't.

    According to you, Younis did better than MoYo on the 2004 Australia tour, which I do not agree with.

    Younis played well but none of his innings were anything special, while MoYo played one of the greatest innings by a Pakistani batsman at the MCG.

    Younis and Butt scored in that innings too, but just compare the difference in class of their innings and that of MoYo's.

    I believe you watched that innings, MoYo put on a show while the others played in his shadow.

    In South Africa in 2006, MoYo played the best innings of the series in the third Test which was also the decider. He scored like 80 runs in the first innings when we were shot for 150 and no other batsman could cross 20.

    In the second Test that we won, Inzamam's 90 in the first innings was also a remarkable innings.

    In the second innings, Younis played well for his 67, but it was Kamran's counter-attacking 50 that took the game away from South Africa.

    In England in 2006, Younis played well but no innings of his come anywhere close to MoYo's show in Leeds and Lord's.
    MoYo's MCG Innings, that innings was in partnership with YK (who scored 87 in that innings too) and both of them took score from 94-3 to 286. if you wann ignore YK's part in that partnership of 192, then it's upto u

    SA Series - Moyo's inning was NOT best inning of series, it was Innnings of Inzi in 2nd test where he took score from 135-6 to 265 (and scored 92 out of 130 runs) with help of Sami,Shoaib,Asif & Kaneria.

    2nd Innings - Again you totally want to ignore YK's part who came into bat at 35/2 and then had match winning partnership with Kami of 99 runs at 6th wicket.

    England 2006 -
    Lord's - YK didn't played that match
    Leeds - Where MY scored 192 runs, YK also scored 173 in same innings and both took score from 36/2 to 399, again if you want to ignore contribution of 173, then its upto u

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Most PPers don't pay attention to objective facts. Flair , talent etc is better way here to argue..
    The other extreme is relying solely on stats and graphs to judge players. You can do better. The game isn't played on a spreadsheet.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    The only thing pathetic I see going on is Misbah playing far past his expiry date despite having been a mediocre player in every format of the game when he steps out of the UAE.

    A poor tactician, a poor match winner and a worse captain.

    He is now doing nothing but holding back the development of Babar and Haris...
    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Damn right I would have been selfish if it meant playing in a World Cup for my country.

    What is worse is Misbah holding on to his place in the team and then replacing himself with an even more mediocre player in the form of Azhar.
    Misbah wasn't a great ODI batsman but he was at a different level to Younis.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Younis scored 87 in the same inning too while batting up the order after the fall of two early wickets along with Salman butt. Moyo Knock was no special as you are stating. I am no fan of either of two but clearly you have to be biased to rate Yousuf over Younis in test format.
    I speak of the quality of the innings. Both Butt and Younis played well, but the way MoYo dominated Warne in that innings was remarkable.

    His footwork was incredible in that innings.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim2Good View Post
    MoYo's MCG Innings, that innings was in partnership with YK (who scored 87 in that innings too) and both of them took score from 94-3 to 286. if you wann ignore YK's part in that partnership of 192, then it's upto u

    SA Series - Moyo's inning was NOT best inning of series, it was Innnings of Inzi in 2nd test where he took score from 135-6 to 265 (and scored 92 out of 130 runs) with help of Sami,Shoaib,Asif & Kaneria.

    2nd Innings - Again you totally want to ignore YK's part who came into bat at 35/2 and then had match winning partnership with Kami of 99 runs at 6th wicket.

    England 2006 -
    Lord's - YK didn't played that match
    Leeds - Where MY scored 192 runs, YK also scored 173 in same innings and both took score from 36/2 to 399, again if you want to ignore contribution of 173, then its upto u
    Yousuf's innings was better than Younis' at the MCG.

    Yousuf's innings was better than Younis' at Leeds.

    Point is that Yousuf's best was better than Younis' best in these countries. He managed to play iconic innings while Younis failed to step out of his shadow.

    Inzamam's innings was great too, but in my opinion, Yousaf's in the third Test was slightly better, although I have no issues with anyone considering Inzamam's innings better.

    The way Yousuf took on South Africa's bowling when we were sent in to bat by Smith with the series hanging in the balance was quite exceptional, especially when no one else could lay bat on ball. It was an innings of supreme skill.

    I'm not ignoring Younis' part, but Kamran's counter-attacking innings took the game away from South Africa.

    That is the story of Younis Khan's career overseas (barring the tour of India in 2005). Even in the few games/series that he has played well, there has always been someone else who did better and played more memorable innings.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I speak of the quality of the innings. Both Butt and Younis played well, but the way MoYo dominated Warne in that innings was remarkable.

    His footwork was incredible in that innings.
    That's alright but one good inning( only quality wise) hardly means much if you have repeatedly failed against that team. He avgs below 30 in as many as three countries.When you avg in the 30s then we can think of some arguments in favour of a batsmen but an avg below 30 clearly explains the failure of the batsmen against that particular opposition or country.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    The other extreme is relying solely on stats and graphs to judge players. You can do better. The game isn't played on a spreadsheet.
    That's why you should take stats with context seriously. Stats with context is rating points.

    Raw stats(spreadsheet) is useless. I have probably watched more games than 90% of posters here so let's leave that aspect out of discussion. Only reason , posters should look at stats with context is to bring some objectivity in discussions. We all know how subjective discussions goes in PP when it comes to some Indian or Pakistani players are involved in comparison.


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  65. #65
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    MoYo over all performance was poor on turning or bouncing tracks on consistent basis. That's why he hardly scored runs in Aus, SA, India and SL.


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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    That's why you should take stats with context seriously. Stats with context is rating points.

    Raw stats(spreadsheet) is useless. I have probably watched more games than 90% of posters here so let's leave that aspect out of discussion. Only reason , posters should look at stats with context is to bring some objectivity in discussions. We all know how subjective discussions goes in PP when it comes to some Indian or Pakistani players are involved in comparison.
    Context? What context? How much context? Stats can and will never be able to truly capture or describe what goes on the field.

    Watching the game doesn't equate to knowing what's actually happening on the field.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  67. #67
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    as just to have a 10K batsmen from pak and have 30+ centuries batsmen from pak as well, i support him

    i agree wih Mamu that he had pathatic attitude, didnt have a clue how to play ODI n T20 but used his leverage from test to get into to LOI teams and disturb balances.

    Dont agree with MoYo being better than him, always thght MoYo was least trustable as batsmen.... but def on list of all time pak gr8, Miandad, Inzi, Zaheer easily outrank him, in tht order.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    @The_Odd_One

    I did not memorize their numbers because they do not concern me. In this thread, did I mention their averages anywhere?

    If I go purely on stats, Younis is an ATG and comfortably Pakistan's best Test batsman, but stats don't always portray the true picture and in this case they certainly don't.

    According to you, Younis did better than MoYo on the 2004 Australia tour, which I do not agree with.

    Younis played well but none of his innings were anything special, while MoYo played one of the greatest innings by a Pakistani batsman at the MCG.

    Younis and Butt scored in that innings too, but just compare the difference in class of their innings and that of MoYo's.

    I believe you watched that innings, MoYo put on a show while the others played in his shadow.

    In South Africa in 2006, MoYo played the best innings of the series in the third Test which was also the decider. He scored like 80 runs in the first innings when we were shot for 150 and no other batsman could cross 20.

    In the second Test that we won, Inzamam's 90 in the first innings was also a remarkable innings.

    In the second innings, Younis played well for his 67, but it was Kamran's counter-attacking 50 that took the game away from South Africa.

    In England in 2006, Younis played well but no innings of his come anywhere close to MoYo's show in Leeds and Lord's.

    I am not interested in what the numbers say. Other than the 2005 tour of India where Younis turned his career around at Bangalore with a brilliant 267, he never managed to grow out of the shadow of Inzamam and MoYo who were both superior batsman.

    Younis has no iconic, great innings in places like Australia, South Africa and England. MoYo doesn't have many either but he still has more than Younis.

    Everyone remembers MoYo's MCG innings, Leeds, Lord's etc., Younis' innings are hardly memorable.

    Younis really stood out after they were gone because we did not have any top quality batsmen in the team and his best competitor is Misbah, who is a good batsman at best followed by Azhar and Shafiq.

    Not hard to look world class in such company.

    Anyways, runs in wins/losses etc. is one of the most meaningless stat one can come up with.

    Both of us have followed Younis Khan's career from the start, at least I have. There is no purpose of having a statistical discussion when you have seen the player play.

    I have no doubt in my mind (regardless of what Cricinfo StatsGuru says) that both MoYo and Inzamam were better Test batsmen than Younis and I also have no doubt in my mind that MoYo would have been statistically better than Younis had he filled his boots in the UAE from 2010-2016.

    UAE pitches are heavenly for batting if you are an Asian batsman. There is no thing in it for the pacers and they are not rank-turners either, they are just flat wickets and the likes of MoYo were too good for these wickets.

    Yes on rank-turners, Younis was better than Moyo.

    Other than playing spin, MoYo is better than Younis in all facets of batting.
    I do not even have to check CricInfo stats to say that Younis is a better test batsman than Yousuf but I did it because sometimes you need proof to debunk a myth.

    Yousuf was the king of soft runs. What impact did he have as a test batsman excluding his one good year?

    Younis, on the hand, has left a legacy:

    1. 3rd Pakistani batsman to score a triple century
    2. Highest run scorer for Pakistan
    3. Most centuries for Pakistan
    4. So many match winning centuries - in Banglore vs India, in Kingston vs WI, in Aukland vs NZ, etc.
    5. Determination and fitness to play for Pakistan for such a long time

    Against Australia, England, India, NZ, SA, and SL in matches won
    Yousuf has just 1 century in 22 matches with a pathetic average of 37
    Younis has 11 centuries in 26 matches with an unbelievable average of 76

    Against Australia, England, India, NZ, SA, and SL in matches won in away series
    Yousuf does not have a single century in 13 matches with even more pathetic average of 35
    Younis still has 4 centuries in 10 matches with a Brandman's average of 118.

    Sorry, but as a test batsman, there is no comparison between Younis and Yousuf.
    Younis won Pakistan countless matches.
    All Yousuf did was score soft runs or bully weaker bowling attacks on roads.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    MoYo over all performance was poor on turning or bouncing tracks on consistent basis. That's why he hardly scored runs in Aus, SA, India and SL.
    Yousuf was as spineless as they come. Inzamam vs Younis is a valid debate but Yousuf does not stand a chance against either of Inzy and Younis.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I speak of the quality of the innings. Both Butt and Younis played well, but the way MoYo dominated Warne in that innings was remarkable.

    His footwork was incredible in that innings.
    Ijazz scored a brilliant century (@ 71 SR) against McGrath, Fleming, Kasprowicz, and Warne in Perth in 1999. Yousuf got 0 in that inning. Does it make Ijazz a better batsman than Yousuf?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    Not to mention beating one of his own fans by dragging him to the locker room and unloading on him there, chickening out of captaincy, going on a fishing trip when we needed him...

    Misbah might not be as great of a test batsman (not that far behind either) but he did his duty with honor and served Pakistan with full dedication.

    Younis was right when he said you cannot compare him with Misbah as a batsman. Younis is easily among the top 3 test batsmen of all time for Pakistan. Misbah will hardly make it to the top 10.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    The only thing pathetic I see going on is Misbah playing far past his expiry date despite having been a mediocre player in every format of the game when he steps out of the UAE.

    A poor tactician, a poor match winner and a worse captain.

    He is now doing nothing but holding back the development of Babar and Haris...
    The delusion is incredibly high in your post.

    Babar has hardly played any ODI cricket and he still has a long way to go to establish himself in the shorter formats first.

    Harris last played like 2 years ago.

    How is Misbah holding back their development?

    And let's not even bring Misbah's test captaincy into the debate.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He has only gotten worse against pace over the years. No it is not his fault, but the fault of the people who call him Pakistan's greatest batsman based on stats while not considering other factors.

    No other great Pakistani batsman has had it as easy as Younis in terms of playing conditions, quality of opposition etc.

    He has been very lucky to have played so much cricket in the UAE in the 2010 era.
    Younis still has 17 centuries and 50+ average in 65 matches pre-2010.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    The delusion is incredibly high in your post.

    Babar has hardly played any ODI cricket and he still has a long way to go to establish himself in the shorter formats first.

    Harris last played like 2 years ago.

    How is Misbah holding back their development?

    And let's not even bring Misbah's test captaincy into the debate.
    What delusion?

    Please explain how Babar or Haris will become good Test cricketers WITHOUT even playing Test cricket?

    The longer they wait - the more detrimental it will be for their careers. Put them in the Test squad and watch them adapt.

    Regarding captaincy - there are many other people in our squad who can and could have done the same job as Misbah. Our test team is well functioning machine - it did not need Waqar and it does not need Misbah either.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Fans will return to normal once the series starts. YK will find a way to score runs and its hard NOT to like someone who is giving your side the best chance of competing.

    YK has himself to blame for whats happening here though. His antics in the past few years regarding ODI cricket has left a bitter taste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    Don't worry, IA YK will give a shut call with his bat to every one.

    Hope he gets 10K runs in next 11 games.
    I can almost see that happening.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Ijazz scored a brilliant century (@ 71 SR) against McGrath, Fleming, Kasprowicz, and Warne in Perth in 1999. Yousuf got 0 in that inning. Does it make Ijazz a better batsman than Yousuf?
    On bouncy wickets, Ijaz was one of the best batsman produced by Pakistan. Very good back-foot player and square of the wicket.

    However, he was not a good player of spin.

    Overall, MoYo is much ahead of Ijaz.

    MoYo is much ahead of Younis too if we consider all formats. Yes in Tests alone, it is a tighter comparison, but Younis beat MoYo when it comes to playing spin only.

    Both batsmen had good temperament and ability to play long innings. MoYo however was a more accomplished batsman and could take on pacers better than Younis who has mostly been in survival mode against pace bowling and is more of a grinder.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I do not even have to check CricInfo stats to say that Younis is a better test batsman than Yousuf but I did it because sometimes you need proof to debunk a myth.

    Yousuf was the king of soft runs. What impact did he have as a test batsman excluding his one good year?

    Younis, on the hand, has left a legacy:

    1. 3rd Pakistani batsman to score a triple century
    2. Highest run scorer for Pakistan
    3. Most centuries for Pakistan
    4. So many match winning centuries - in Banglore vs India, in Kingston vs WI, in Aukland vs NZ, etc.
    5. Determination and fitness to play for Pakistan for such a long time

    Against Australia, England, India, NZ, SA, and SL in matches won
    Yousuf has just 1 century in 22 matches with a pathetic average of 37
    Younis has 11 centuries in 26 matches with an unbelievable average of 76

    Against Australia, England, India, NZ, SA, and SL in matches won in away series
    Yousuf does not have a single century in 13 matches with even more pathetic average of 35
    Younis still has 4 centuries in 10 matches with a Brandman's average of 118.

    Sorry, but as a test batsman, there is no comparison between Younis and Yousuf.
    Younis won Pakistan countless matches.
    All Yousuf did was score soft runs or bully weaker bowling attacks on roads.


    This description fits Younis perfectly as well.

    Also, I would like to point out again that this average in wins etc. is a pointless statistic because for example, MoYo never got the chance to face Australia in a home series on flat tracks other than 1998 which was in the year where he made his debut, and that team consisted of a bowler like McGrath.

    He didn't have the luxury of a thrashing a substandard Australian attack on the flat UAE wickets like Younis got the opportunity in 2014.

    Yes Younis holds the record of being the highest run scorer and century maker, we have to realize that he had a lot of favorable things going for him to achieve this record.

    Firstly, it was MoYo losing out on 3-4 great years. Since 2007, MoYo has been in and out of the team and we had tough away tours in 2009-2010 and didn't play a single Test in 2008. After this, he was dropped for good. Otherwise, he was on his way of becoming the top-scorer and leading century-maker.


    Other than the fact that he has not played a single Test in Australia since 2004 and in England since 2006, he has had 6 years of flat wickets in the UAE against some meek bowling, with only tough tour which was South Africa in 2013.

    No other great Pakistani batsman enjoyed this convenience.


    Again, you speak of centuries in wins which MoYo doesn't have. You said that MoYo doesn't have a century in an away win in England, yet his 192 at Headingley and 202 at Lord's are amongst the finest knocks played a Pakistani overseas.

    It is not his fault that we did not win those matches; he more than did his job, he wasn't supposed to take English wickets as well.

    Similarly in Cape Town in 2007, it wasn't his fault that other Pakistani batsmen batted like idiots in the first innings against Ntini, he played a superb counter-attacking and dominated the bowlers who made other Pakistani batsmen dance.

    His innings at the MCG, where he took on Shane Warne like few batsmen could, cannot be undervalued because we did not win the game.

    In Limited Overs, averages and hundreds etc. in wins are more critical because a good performance in a 50 or a 20 over game has the potential to be more influential.

    In Test cricket, one individual has less impact on the outcome of the game because it is a battle of 4 innings and 15 sessions, rather than a matter of having a good day or a good few hours.

    Making Yousuf look bad by citing his lack of hundreds in wins overseas when he was played some of the greatest knocks by a Pakistani batsmen in places like Australia and England doesn't make a good case of justifying that he has not been a great Test batsman of Pakistan.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Younis still has 17 centuries and 50+ average in 65 matches pre-2010.
    Which had a lot to do with his runs against India from 2005-2007, which doesn't come across as surprising because of his mastery vs spin.

    However, I also recall a Younis Khan who couldn't find a permanent place in the team till he was 30 while MoYo and Inzamam were mainstays in the team meanwhile, which had plenty to do with the way he was embarrassed by the great Australian team in Sharjah and the likes of Pollock in South Africa and Ambrose/Walsh in the Caribbean.

  79. #79
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    Well, let the series begin. He has a lot to make up for: his away average against pace is barely 30.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yousuf's innings was better than Younis' at the MCG.

    Yousuf's innings was better than Younis' at Leeds.


    Point is that Yousuf's best was better than Younis' best in these countries. He managed to play iconic innings while Younis failed to step out of his shadow.

    Inzamam's innings was great too, but in my opinion, Yousaf's in the third Test was slightly better, although I have no issues with anyone considering Inzamam's innings better.

    The way Yousuf took on South Africa's bowling when we were sent in to bat by Smith with the series hanging in the balance was quite exceptional, especially when no one else could lay bat on ball. It was an innings of supreme skill.

    I'm not ignoring Younis' part, but Kamran's counter-attacking innings took the game away from South Africa.

    That is the story of Younis Khan's career overseas (barring the tour of India in 2005). Even in the few games/series that he has played well, there has always been someone else who did better and played more memorable innings.
    just because Mamoon said so ?

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