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  1. #1
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    The National Cricket Academy - Discussion Thread

    Look at the basics of some of these guys .
    Poor seam position from the bowlers .
    Bowlers who don't work on their batting .
    Poor batting skills, strike rotation . Hitting .

    Is language the only thing they teach at the NCA ??
    Must have some really crap coaches over there .
    I know lack.of talent is an issue but i would just like to focus on the basics and things that are in control .
    If anything the players seem to regress after a stint there .

  2. #2
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    Absolutely agree. Nothing to show for that effort.


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  3. #3
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    You do know you're the no.1 test team in the world right?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    You do know you're the no.1 test team in the world right?
    2 different formats.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    2 different formats.
    Yes, but how can an academy produce good to very good cricketers for the longer format (where strong basics are more required) but poor cricketers for the shorter format?

    Maybe it's a question of intent from the cricketers themselves?

  6. #6
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    Or maybe the wrong players are picked for the wrong format?

  7. #7
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    I disagree. While the NCA may be a factor but the real issue is the wickets these batsmen are playing on. On slow and low wickets where batting is a tad difficult Pakistani batsmen will be better equipped. However them batting every season on those pitches they have developed a safety first approach which is why the first class set up is not conducive to producing batsmen fit for the modern game. Even if it does they will be either Sharjeel or Shahzaib Hasan type. Unless PCB improves the pitches nothing will change. Same thing I would say for fast bowling, current conditions are not encouraging for fast bowlers and the only ones being encouraged are spinners. The best way forward is to produce hard and fast wickets. Batsmen, fast bowlers and spinners all get encouragement. It's really a combination of poor pitches and bad structure of first class cricket and tbh after the 2003 World Cup most people predicted Pakistan would decline because structure was bad at that time as well but somehow we sustained with some good players coming through. But now the fact is the number of skilled cricketers has dried up.

  8. #8
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    In addition to not following the basics, bowlers are not even locking their wrists.

  9. #9
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    NCA had Muddasir Iqbal not long ago, and before that Aaqib Javed. Pakistan cant afford expensive coaches, but yeah, NCA does have an issue with what they do to groom players, despite world-class facilities

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Or maybe the wrong players are picked for the wrong format?
    This, wrong players, wrong combinations. Recycling of old rubbish again and again.


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Or maybe the wrong players are picked for the wrong format?
    Why are they doing the simple things wrong inspite of that facility .
    Has it helped enhance a players skill level . I am not too sure .
    Look at someone like David willey . An 80 mph run of the mill seamer but with a perfect wrist action and hence maximises the swing .
    Players are helped to perform at their maximum potential . Yet pakistanis are doing the simple things wrong.
    Rubbish fitness standards , poor new ball skills wrt seam and wrist position , ordinary strength conditioning .one dimentional batsmen that are poorly coached .
    Its all very apparent .

  12. #12
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    I have always mantained that the NCA is nothing more than a glorified gym and finess center with cricket net facilities

  13. #13
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    I'm going to be more positive. We have a poor odi team and England have a very very good outfit.
    However in at least 2 of the games we would have won if we had 35 more runs.
    I expect mickey to fix this quick by selection and change in intent in first 10 overs

    Chasing a big score will take a little longer


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Why are they doing the simple things wrong inspite of that facility .
    Has it helped enhance a players skill level . I am not too sure .
    Look at someone like David willey . An 80 mph run of the mill seamer but with a perfect wrist action and hence maximises the swing .
    Players are helped to perform at their maximum potential . Yet pakistanis are doing the simple things wrong.
    Rubbish fitness standards , poor new ball skills wrt seam and wrist position , ordinary strength conditioning .one dimentional batsmen that are poorly coached .
    Its all very apparent .
    I've said it months ago, Pakistan will always have a world class test team but having a top ODI team isn't happening anytime sooner. It's quite obvious from the Pak players I've seen, Pak fans must be happy that their side is currently the best in the world in Tests. Pakistan side is very much like the English side of the past, when they had a very good Test side but an old fashioned ODI side out of their depth in modern cricket. But their fans never cared about the ODIs apart from the usual outcry over the unceremonious exit from every world cup (although a lot of those fans have now jumped to the ODI bandwagon now that their side has become a top and exciting ODI side and probably the favourites for the next world cup at home).

    Pak have a top test side because a lot of their batsmen are "old fashioned" and playing old school test cricket is one of the tried and tested methods of playing test cricket. They are the best at attritional cricket and when a lot of test sides today have batsmen who don't have the ability to stay at the crease for long periods without chasing a wide one, naturally success is expected in the Pak test team. A lot of their batsmen may not be the best skilled - for example, Azhar Ali or Sami Aslam or even Misbah may not be as talented as a Joe Root or Williamson but one thing where they trump everyone is the grit and determination - they hardly throw their wicket away and that is a huge quality to have in Test cricket which is why they are successful. However that same quality is counterproductive in ODI cricket. A lot of batsmen in the current/past Pak ODI side are of the Alastair Cook mould - Sami, Azhar, Misbah, Younis - none of these 4 along with Cook belong in modern ODI cricket. They are not adventurous enough and they don't have the same shot array as that of a Virat Kohli or AB de Villiers. It's like asking Pujara to match Rohit Sharma in ODI cricket.

    Problem is people don't realise that different skills are required for different formats. In Tests you need batsmen with solid defence and temperament while in LOIs, you need adventurous batsmen with different gears and a good shot array. In ODIs you need batsmen who can constantly pick gaps, dab the ball into the vacant areas and scamper for a single or a double under pressure. In Test cricket it's not needed since you don't have the time or over constraint, so you can pick and choose your ball to play or leave unlike the LOIs. Very few batsmen have been equally successful in both formats - Sachin, Lara, Ponting, Hayden, Gilchrist in the past and AB, Kohli, Root, Smith, Will currently. So you have to drop these test specialist batsmen and pick batsmen oriented towards ODIs.

    It's the exact opposite for bowlers in ODIs. You need attacking bowlers in Tests. You also need the same bowlers in ODIs as well, but since the balance has been shifted very much in favour of batting in ODIs, you need bowlers with good defensive skills as well. Willey is successful because he swings the ball upfront, has a very good knuckle ball and a nice yorker as well. Pak bowlers have been wasting the new ball in Tests as well, so it's a wider issue that needs to be addressed by the bowling coaches. But none of them have excellent death over kills - wide yorker, slow ball, yorker, cutters (only Amir bowls it), etc. Above all they lack a quality spinner in ODIs, most sides have atleast one nowadays - Tahir, Narine, Ashwin, Jadeja, Zampa, Shakib and the new Lankan spinners. Pak has to kick out all these test specialists from the side and build a side around dynamic stroke players (not power hitters but those who know to rotate the strike consistently and play good cricket shots), quality spinners and death over specialists. If power hitters are available, well and good, but not every side has a Buttler or a Maxwell.

    Identify the best death over specialists from the next PSL (Bumrah and BK developed their skills in the IPL only, forget about those who constantly moan about T20 leagues calling them tamasha leagues - the PLs actually benefit the LOI team) and spinners from the same competition and build a side around them for the Champions trophy.

  15. #15
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    Total failure. Probably full with clueless coaches.

  16. #16
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    Coaches all over Pakistan are trash. Except very few

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    You do know you're the no.1 test team in the world right?
    I love the fact that we are no1 in tests, but let's not kid ourselves, this is a very tenuous grip on the top position because a few results and a few tosses in the UAE went our way. A couple of retirements and we will be back down to number 5-6 which is our realistic position right now.

    Op is spot on. Let alone the playing 11, the squad of youngsters coming through are clueless in every dept.

  18. #18
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    the NCA is more of a retirement home with pity jobs for ex-cricketers


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Look at the basics of some of these guys .
    Poor seam position from the bowlers .
    Bowlers who don't work on their batting .
    Poor batting skills, strike rotation . Hitting .

    Is language the only thing they teach at the NCA ??
    Must have some really crap coaches over there .
    I know lack.of talent is an issue but i would just like to focus on the basics and things that are in control .
    If anything the players seem to regress after a stint there .
    Bowlers were running on the pitch and were bowling no balls which is very costly in ODIs. Does PCB have any qualified coaches who know anything about fast bowling eg arm position,seam position,run ups, yorkers etc?.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artaxerxes View Post
    Bowlers were running on the pitch and were bowling no balls which is very costly in ODIs. Does PCB have any qualified coaches who know anything about fast bowling eg arm position,seam position,run ups, yorkers etc?.
    Remind me if Pak bowlers were the only ones guilty of that? Wasnt Anderson the first bowler to be taken off for that?

    Lets be sensible


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  21. #21
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    This is a very valid and important point made by the OP.

    This is what happens when it's a case of jobs for the boys and coaches who have been there for many years going through the motions and just counting their rupees each month when they get paid.

    Basic flaws are missed. Basic issues are neglected.



  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    I love the fact that we are no1 in tests, but let's not kid ourselves, this is a very tenuous grip on the top position because a few results and a few tosses in the UAE went our way. A couple of retirements and we will be back down to number 5-6 which is our realistic position right now.

    Op is spot on. Let alone the playing 11, the squad of youngsters coming through are clueless in every dept.
    No, number 5-6 isn't our realistic position right now. Lol at you for saying that 4-5 teams are better than us.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    I love the fact that we are no1 in tests, but let's not kid ourselves, this is a very tenuous grip on the top position because a few results and a few tosses in the UAE went our way. A couple of retirements and we will be back down to number 5-6 which is our realistic position right now.

    Op is spot on. Let alone the playing 11, the squad of youngsters coming through are clueless in every dept.
    Not sure if you're serious or trolling. Every team wins at home, so there is nothing wrong about results going your way in the UAE and I know rain played a role, but Pak deserve the no.1 rank more than any other team atm, certainly more than India. There isn't a huge difference between 3 or 4 test teams and hence the close points difference but Pak is clearly the best of the bunch even if you go by results. I don't see Misbah and Younis retiring any time sooner, so the points are only going to build up and Pakistan dropping to no.5 or 6 is a laughable claim.

    Every team goes through a rebuilding phase when the big wig seniors retire, India went through the same with a very young team after 5 to 6 seniors retired and are now a fairly experienced team, ditto with Australia. Pak have 2 or 3 experienced players in their test team, it's only natural it may lose a few matches initially when they retire. But the replacements seem to be capable from what I have seen in Pak A team tours. Pak will always have a good to very good test team even if the seniors retire.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    I have always mantained that the NCA is nothing more than a glorified gym and finess center with cricket net facilities
    That's literally what it is. Any aira ghaira can hit it up to have a good workout. No different than Gold's Gym or 24 hour fitness. Actually the fitness associates in those gyms give more useful advice.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Not sure if you're serious or trolling. Every team wins at home, so there is nothing wrong about results going your way in the UAE and I know rain played a role, but Pak deserve the no.1 rank more than any other team atm, certainly more than India. There isn't a huge difference between 3 or 4 test teams and hence the close points difference but Pak is clearly the best of the bunch even if you go by results. I don't see Misbah and Younis retiring any time sooner, so the points are only going to build up and Pakistan dropping to no.5 or 6 is a laughable claim.

    Every team goes through a rebuilding phase when the big wig seniors retire, India went through the same with a very young team after 5 to 6 seniors retired and are now a fairly experienced team, ditto with Australia. Pak have 2 or 3 experienced players in their test team, it's only natural it may lose a few matches initially when they retire. But the replacements seem to be capable from what I have seen in Pak A team tours. Pak will always have a good to very good test team even if the seniors retire.
    I'm not trolling, I mean what I write. We are no1, it's great. Love it. But let's not kid ourselves our squad is very weak. The sign of a good team is not just the results but the manner in which they can defeat their opposition while mastering conditions. When you have main bowlers In the attack constantly bowling hit me balls (failing to maintain line and length and two guys nearing retirements and many away tours coming up on fast bouncy wickets then yes you look at the squad.

    I wish I had your optimism about the young guns coming through but I honestly think there are some very very raw individuals in the A team set up who will need to develop considerably. (Sami aslam, babar azam, nawaz, Ehsan Adil )

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    No, number 5-6 isn't our realistic position right now. Lol at you for saying that 4-5 teams are better than us.
    The squads of England, India are definitely better, stronger fitter with more depth. Possibly Australia too. We have to wait and see when we get some away games happening. It's really too soon to really believe we are the best side in the world. (Perhaps it's better to say we are best current playing 11 but not the best squad)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    The squads of England, India are definitely better, stronger fitter with more depth. Possibly Australia too. We have to wait and see when we get some away games happening. It's really too soon to really believe we are the best side in the world. (Perhaps it's better to say we are best current playing 11 but not the best squad)
    see your PM


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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    I'm not trolling, I mean what I write. We are no1, it's great. Love it. But let's not kid ourselves our squad is very weak. The sign of a good team is not just the results but the manner in which they can defeat their opposition while mastering conditions. When you have main bowlers In the attack constantly bowling hit me balls (failing to maintain line and length and two guys nearing retirements and many away tours coming up on fast bouncy wickets then yes you look at the squad.

    I wish I had your optimism about the young guns coming through but I honestly think there are some very very raw individuals in the A team set up who will need to develop considerably. (Sami aslam, babar azam, nawaz, Ehsan Adil )
    Australia played exciting cricket and rose to the no.1 position. They were so superior that they often looked invincible. Whereas England ascended to the no.1 position by playing not so much attacking cricket - Andy liked his team to be perfect and professional but also was a bit defensive you could say. India ascended to the no.1 position before England by not having Steyn or McGrath in their ranks but on the back of their stellar batting. Doesn't matter how you get there as long as you're there.

    Sami Aslam isn't raw, he is a very compact batsman and will have a very good future at the top for Pakistan. Haris, Babar, Saud, Jaahid all are capable batsmen and talented. They can fill the void left by Younis and Misbah in the team once they retire. You just have to be a bit patient with them. Honestly I have more belief in your batting reserves than your bowling ones.

  29. #29
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    Guys working at the NCA who have been there for years. What have they actually achieved or done, apart from ruin a few players.

    I hope Mudassar Nazar has a clear out of PCB chamchas who are there making easy money.



  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    That's literally what it is. Any aira ghaira can hit it up to have a good workout. No different than Gold's Gym or 24 hour fitness. Actually the fitness associates in those gyms give more useful advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Guys working at the NCA who have been there for years. What have they actually achieved or done, apart from ruin a few players.

    I hope Mudassar Nazar has a clear out of PCB chamchas who are there making easy money.
    Is the NCA like a training facility for players where anyone can come and go or is it more like a development academy aimed for junior players to develop and play matches.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    This is a very valid and important point made by the OP.

    This is what happens when it's a case of jobs for the boys and coaches who have been there for many years going through the motions and just counting their rupees each month when they get paid.

    Basic flaws are missed. Basic issues are neglected.
    Nah these coaches always say it is up to the boys to deliver on the field. We have done our job behind the scenes. Have seen so many get away with this line of defense.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Is the NCA like a training facility for players where anyone can come and go or is it more like a development academy aimed for junior players to develop and play matches.
    According to some, it's a holiday camp for players to live it up in Lahore.



  33. #33
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    Ali Zia steps down

    Lahore, 6 December 2019:

    Ali Zia has stepped down from his position as Senior General Manager – Academies with immediate effect after 12 years in the role. He had joined the PCB in May 2004.

    The Pakistan Cricket Board will soon start the recruitment process to fill the position.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 6th December 2019 at 17:48.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Ali Zia (Senior General Manager Academies) has stepped down.
    Great news

    NCA has been a failure, hopefully Wasim Khan can revamp it

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Ali Zia steps down

    Lahore, 6 December 2019:

    Ali Zia has stepped down from his position as Senior General Manager – Academies with immediate effect after 12 years in the role. He had joined the PCB in May 2004.

    The Pakistan Cricket Board will soon start the recruitment process to fill the position.
    Another freeloader.

    Saw him on a few junior tours in the UK doing nothing.

    Good riddance.




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