Babar Azam vs other top batsmen in the early stages of their careers

[anoop]

Babar is far better than Kohli was at the same stage in his career. The numbers do not tell you that Kohli was sitting cozy in the middle-order with Sachin, Sehwag and Gambhir above him and Dhoni, Yuvraj and Raina below him.

Babar is batting at #3 as the main batsman in his team and knows that if he doesn't score, the team will probably struggle to put together a decent total. Also, his innings at the 2017 CT final is a better pressure innings than anything Kohli has done in an ICC tournament, thus far.

Can someone post their test match stats as well?

No you are wrong. Kohli's CT 2013 40+ innings was much better also his knock of 36 in WC finalwhich can easily be compared to babar's 40+. Babar is now 24 years 3 months old. Kohli before turning 24 had already hit 133 at Hobart (pressure chase, do or die situation) and 183 against Pakistan chasing 329. Has Babar done anything better than or close to it ??

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Babar had chances throughout SA series to breakout from a very good player to a potentially great player.

He did not kick on. No centuries, no wins delivered.

He has all the ingredients to go on and become a great. At this stage, he is nowhere close to Kohli - who delivered wins.

[Bilal7]

Yeah, a good start to Babar but lately seems to have regressed. Will be an interesting contest in the forthcoming WC to see who out of Babar and Pandya influences more wins.

Pandya, who?

Yes. Babar has more responsibility than Kohli did initially with all the batting talent around. Kohli had time to grow into the batting leader he is now. BTW, check Kohli's innings in the CT 2013 final. It was a pressure innings too and he top scored.

No you are wrong. Kohli's CT 2013 40+ innings was much better also his knock of 36 in WC finalwhich can easily be compared to babar's 40+. Babar is now 24 years 3 months old. Kohli before turning 24 had already hit 133 at Hobart (pressure chase, do or die situation) and 183 against Pakistan chasing 329. Has Babar done anything better than or close to it ??

Are you forgetting Kohli's hundred in the WC against Pakistan, and his exploits in the T20 WC (which is an ICC tournament)?

One has to be delusional to think that Babar's 46 (52) in the CT final is better than all of those.

The 2013 CT final was not a 50-overs match. I was specifically comparing the two in ODIs in my post, which was in reply to the above graphic comparing their respective outputs after 50-odd matches. It does not need to be said that T20 WCs do not feature in this discussion either.

[WengerOut]

Babar has improved since but if i am being honest, he was the reason Pakistan did not score 350 in the CT 2017 final. That was a pretty average innings. Sums up his career until now.

[anoop]

Even then Kohli's 35 in chase is more important than babar's CT innings. India were two down chasing by that time while babar came at 128/1. Also you haven't given any innings better than 133, 183 of Kohli. You claimed that babar is way better than Kohli at same stage so I am sure he must have played some innings better than them. Kohli's 133 saved us from getting knocked out.

[Hyperion66]

Babar has improved since but if i am being honest, he was the reason Pakistan did not score 350 in the CT 2017 final. That was a pretty average innings. Sums up his career until now.

Don't see any improvement as far as odi is concerned, still mediocre against top teams.

[Bilal7]

Babar has improved since but if i am being honest, he was the reason Pakistan did not score 350 in the CT 2017 final. That was a pretty average innings. Sums up his career until now.

Go watch it again. Babar played the innings that was required. He ensured that his wicket would not fall while Fakhar was smashing the Indians and when Fakhar fell, he upped his RR beautifully and wrested momentum back from the Indians. He was a big part of Pakistan scoring 330 in arguably the biggest Indo-Pak game of all time.

Even then Kohli's 35 in chase is more important than babar's CT innings. India were two down chasing by that time while babe came at 128/1. Also you haven't given any innings better than 133, 183 of Kohli. You claimed that babar is way better than Kohli at same stage so I am sure he must have played some innings better than them. Kohli's 133 saved us from getting knocked out.

No, 35 at a SR of 70 is not a good innings in any form of the game in any situation. Definitely not in the situation that India were in with the likes of Dhoni and Yuvraj to come.

Why are you bringing up random innings? Had that 133 been scored in the final of the tri-series against Australia, it would have been a far better innings but even then, it does not compare to the final of a CT final. His Asia cup knock was not an ICC tournament innings either.

[Bilal7]

Don't see any improvement as far as odi is concerned, still mediocre against top teams.

You wish you had a 24 year-old as mediocre as Babar. Drop the act, we can all see through your sour grapes act.

[anoop]

Go watch it again. Babar played the innings that was required. He ensured that his wicket would not fall while Fakhar was smashing the Indians and when Fakhar fell, he upped his RR beautifully and wrested momentum back from the Indians. He was a big part of Pakistan scoring 330 in arguably the biggest Indo-Pak game of all time.



No, 35 at a SR of 70 is not a good innings in any form of the game in any situation. Definitely not in the situation that India were in with the likes of Dhoni and Yuvraj to come.

Why are you bringing up random innings? Had that 133 been scored in the final of the tri-series against Australia, it would have been a far better innings but even then, it does not compare to the final of a CT final. His Asia cup knock was not an ICC tournament innings either.

It was more important as it added 83 runs in 90 balls. Why to play fast when gambhir was already there doing good. India needed stability not stroke play at that time. You can't compare some CT final to WC final which is the greatest match in anybody's career so talk only when babar has done anything in WC finals. I am talking about random matches because Babar too plays them and when a comparison is done it is done for all matches played not filtered matches.

[anoop]

You wish you had a 24 year-old as mediocre as Babar. Drop the act, we can all see through your sour grapes act.

We have an oldie Rayudu who can play like babar so we don't need more.

[WengerOut]

Go watch it again. Babar played the innings that was required. He ensured that his wicket would not fall while Fakhar was smashing the Indians and when Fakhar fell, he upped his RR beautifully and wrested momentum back from the Indians. He was a big part of Pakistan scoring 330 in arguably the biggest Indo-Pak game of all time.

So you think scoring at an average SR in a game when the bulk of heavy lifting was already been done by the guy at the other end, with his team batting first, first wicket down after 120 and the eventual score was 338, is great innings under pressure. Fair enough, your opinion . Now go and watch 2011 final innings. By your own scale, how about scoring 35 when 2 of your best batsmen are dismissed without not too much on scorecard, forming a partnership with the senior pro to take the team out of dicey situation, CHASING 270 IN A WC FINAL? Did not allow RRR to blow up and thats what required. But hey suddenly SR mattered to you.

PS:, Kohli averages 101 in CT knockouts. I can already hear excuses like you used for CT 2013 final.

[Oligochaetes]

BABAR : 59 matches : 2462 runs : Ave 51.29
KOHLI : 59 matches : 2153 runs : Ave 43.93

#Kohli hit an average of 50 for the first time in his 85th match...
#Since 115th match, Kohli's average never dropped below 50
#Kohli's average rocketed from 50.95 (168m) to 59.90 (214m) and he has been hovering below the 60 Average since.


#Babar crossed 50 ave in just his 18th match and till now (59m) not dropped below 50

Babar is growing and he looks set to become Pakistan's ATG ODI batsman. Whether he can challenge Kohli, we will have to wait and watch..

[ali2220]

Babar is no way close to kohli, most probably he never will be close to him, however the indians who have been terming babar as an average player by coming up with silly reasons are real fools.

[ali2220]

[B]
Babar is growing and he looks set to become Pakistan's ATG ODI batsman. Whether he can challenge Kohli, we will have to wait and watch..

Most probably he will never challenge him.

[ali2220]

Even then Kohli's 35 in chase is more important than babar's CT innings. India were two down chasing by that time while babar came at 128/1. Also you haven't given any innings better than 133, 183 of Kohli. You claimed that babar is way better than Kohli at same stage so I am sure he must have played some innings better than them. Kohli's 133 saved us from getting knocked out.

That innings of 35 was nothing great, especially when he already had one chance but the 183 innings was indeed great.I'm happily saying that kohli is the greatest batter and babar is most likely never going to reach his height.However when you see your dumb countrymen try to belittle babar than you should expect some reaction from some of us too.

[anoop]

That innings of 35 was nothing great, especially when he already had one chance but the 183 innings was indeed great.I'm happily saying that kohli is the greatest batter and babar is most likely never going to reach his height.However when you see your dumb countrymen try to belittle babar than you should expect some reaction from some of us too.

No it wasn't but it is obsession of people on pakpassion to exaggerate anything in knockout in finals and semifinals. Kohli's innings wasn't great but it was surely more important than babar's 40+ in CT finals.

[anoop]

What a stupid thing to say, first you bring in an allrounder to compare it with babar, and when you know that the allrounder wont be able to outperform babar in the long run with the bat, you end up saying he's only an allrounder.Dumb!

It was brought because your best batsman actually hasn't performed much better than that all-rounder against top teams so comparing him with top batsmen of world was actually dumb.

[ali2220]

It was brought because your best batsman actually hasn't performed much better than that all-rounder against top teams so comparing him with top batsmen of world was actually dumb.

No it wasn't.Babar after 29 Onedayers has done better than what Kholi did after 29 onedayers, however unlike you i'm realistic and happily saying that babar most likely is still not going to match kohli.
Comparison with padya was stupid, but like you said people here like to exagerate,and you are a fine example of them.

[Madplayer]

Babar has improved since but if i am being honest, he was the reason Pakistan did not score 350 in the CT 2017 final. That was a pretty average innings. Sums up his career until now.

Had you been following Pakistan cricket prior to CT2017, you would have known why Babar's innings was critical. Pakistan had been getting good starts but collapsing once the top 2-3 got out. The lower order just couldnt deliver. And even in that final match the lower order except Hafeez failed.

You can have a look at India in the same match also as an example. If someone from India had played a Babar type of knock, it would have stopped the collapse.

[WengerOut]

Had you been following Pakistan cricket prior to CT2017, you would have known why Babar's innings was critical. Pakistan had been getting good starts but collapsing once the top 2-3 got out. The lower order just couldnt deliver. And even in that final match the lower order except Hafeez failed.

You can have a look at India in the same match also as an example. If someone from India had played a Babar type of knock, it would have stopped the collapse.

If you had watched WC 2011, it was a common theme that after the top order was dismissed, India collapsed almost every time to reach a par score when it couldve been much better. So how is a 35, with best 2 batsmen dismissed in a WC final chasing, a mediocre one? What is your opinion about Bilals comment about Babars 46 being better than Kohlis in any ICC tourney? How about dismissing 2013 final as nothing when you guys dodged a pressure cooker situation against SA in 2017 CT without having to play full quota?

I understand Babar is the glue for Pakistan and rightly so. I don't mind you guys portraying him as best ever but not at the cost of disrespectful comments against other player performances.

[LastManstanding]

Great start to @babarazam258 career. Look forward to many more great performances particularly in world cup 2019. Keep it up young man. We are proud of you pic.twitter.com/ovkCAyOOnL

— Asad Umar (@Asad_Umar) February 9, 2019

When Kohli made his debut, he opened the innings, later he was moved down the order, dropped multiple times because of the competition and a relatively settled batting line up.

Babar on the other hand hasn't had so much competition and a static batting spot which reflects in better stats.

[Dr_Bassim]

It's not how you start but how you finish.

That will define Babar.

[MenInG]

Absolute junk deleted about Pandya/Babar

Dont post such stuff again on this forum.

[Rahul1]

Pandya, who?

Someone who has a player of the series award against a top 5 team.

[Stalin]

When Kohli was 24 , he had match winning hundreds against Australia (chasing 300+) , England, New Zealand and a 183 against Pakistan chasing 330+ , 120 against the then world cup finalist Sri Lanka whilst chasing 330+ in 40 overs , a crucial 35 in an all important world cup final and was the top scorer in the champions trophy final.

So, if anyone thinks that Babar is a better player than Virat at 24 , just because he bashed Sri Lanka and West Indies who are sitting pretty at 7 and 9 on the rankings table , then they are just plain delusional. I agree that Babar has the potential but it is still to be seen against a top tier team. So absolutely no need to overhype him by downplaying Kohli's achievements.

[Dr_Bassim]

When Kohli was 24 , he had match winning hundreds against Australia (chasing 300+) , England, New Zealand and a 183 against Pakistan chasing 330+ , 120 against the then world cup finalist Sri Lanka whilst chasing 330+ in 40 overs , a crucial 35 in an all important world cup final and was the top scorer in the champions trophy final.

So, if anyone thinks that Babar is a better player than Virat at 24 , just because he bashed Sri Lanka and West Indies who are sitting pretty at 7 and 9 on the rankings table , then they are just plain delusional. I agree that Babar has the potential but it is still to be seen against a top tier team. So absolutely no need to overhype him by downplaying Kohli's achievements.

Actually we rarely see a batsmen who has stroke play.

So when we see someone, we naturally get excited and gushing.

Forgive us.

We are young when it comes to batting.

[WengerOut]

Actually we rarely see a batsmen who has stroke play.

So when we see someone, we naturally get excited and gushing.

Forgive us.

We are young when it comes to batting.

He is very good batsman. The problem comes when trying to portray him even better by bashing other players. The hyperboles being thrown around here is actually too funny.

[ali2220]

He is very good batsman. The problem comes when trying to portray him even better by bashing other players. The hyperboles being thrown around here is actually too funny.

Actually its the other way around, Imam was being portrayed better and babar was being bashed by some desperates

[WengerOut]

Actually its the other way around, Imam was being portrayed better and babar was being bashed by some desperates

Not in this thread and many other

[ali2220]

Not in this thread and many other

It was in this thread.

[Stalin]

Actually we rarely see a batsmen who has stroke play.

So when we see someone, we naturally get excited and gushing.

Forgive us.

We are young when it comes to batting.

Exactly. I have no problem with Pak fans getting excited about Babar . They have every right to , because he is a fine player.
But when they try to degrade unarguably the best odi bat of this generation using silly arguments and by throwing ballooned up averages against borderline minnows , it becomes cringeworthy.

[rudra]

Whats the comparison in tests ?

[JattMaula]

Whats the comparison in tests ?

Don't think there is any comparison in tests.

Babar has tamed the beast himself, the Steyn, in South Africa.

[Hawkeye]

Let's put it this way.

Kohli had more impactful knocks at that stage. Babar has less.

So even though stats are better, quality isn't exactly the same.

But it doesn't mean 24 yrs Babar is far behind 24 yrs old Kohli. There are similarities and also consider that Babar plays in an extremely weak batting side with no support.

Kohli had a lot of luxuries and privileges.

[anoop]

Let's put it this way.

Kohli had more impactful knocks at that stage. Babar has less.

So even though stats are better, quality isn't exactly the same.

But it doesn't mean 24 yrs Babar is far behind 24 yrs old Kohli. There are similarities and also consider that Babar plays in an extremely weak batting side with no support.

Kohli had a lot of luxuries and privileges.

Kohli when at the same age in 2012-13 was part of a weak batting line-up.Sachin was down hill, Sehwag & Gambhir too. Rohit was useless those days.We were seeing the darkest phase of our test cricket.

[Usman Chadda]

Did Indian fans really compare Pandya with Babar? I believe another dose of a 'fluke' will set them straight

[anoop]

Don't think there is any comparison in tests.

Babar has tamed the beast himself, the Steyn, in South Africa.

He is not the beast these days, infact not since 2015

[unitedkush]

When Kohli was 24 , he had match winning hundreds against Australia (chasing 300+) , England, New Zealand and a 183 against Pakistan chasing 330+ , 120 against the then world cup finalist Sri Lanka whilst chasing 330+ in 40 overs , a crucial 35 in an all important world cup final and was the top scorer in the champions trophy final.

So, if anyone thinks that Babar is a better player than Virat at 24 , just because he bashed Sri Lanka and West Indies who are sitting pretty at 7 and 9 on the rankings table , then they are just plain delusional. I agree that Babar has the potential but it is still to be seen against a top tier team. So absolutely no need to overhype him by downplaying Kohli's achievements.

Fabulous post

I can selectively use numbers to show how Zaheer Khan was a better bowler in ICC tournaments than Waqar Younis, but I would be laughed for suggesting he was better and rightly so.

Kohli is leagues ahead of any player in limited overs, even at 24 like you said he had achieved so much with 17 ODI tons in the bank already.

Babar has shown to win games against top sides in iT20s but he is yet to replicate that in 50 over format, an awful long to go yet despite his numbers.

[ali2220]

I think Sachin batted in a weaker batting lineup in his career than kohli did in 2012-2013.Also a batting lineup with down hill Sachin,Sehwag,Gambhir is still 20 times better than Pak post Younis/Misbah batting lineup. Kohli was lucky to have learned so much from those great, not sure what babar can learn from all time great chokers in asad and azhar.

[Hawkeye]

Kohli when at the same age in 2012-13 was part of a weak batting line-up.Sachin was down hill, Sehwag & Gambhir too. Rohit was useless those days.We were seeing the darkest phase of our test cricket.

Somewhat true, but that's not worse than our current batting lineup.

Still, we can't compare based on stats only, I know some of our Pak posters are doing that here.

VK had far more higher impact knocks, so there isn't a 1:1 comparison. VK was better.

But your side also has some bitter jealous posters who just tried to bring in Panyda in this discussion.

[Madplayer]

If you had watched WC 2011, it was a common theme that after the top order was dismissed, India collapsed almost every time to reach a par score when it couldve been much better. So how is a 35, with best 2 batsmen dismissed in a WC final chasing, a mediocre one? What is your opinion about Bilals comment about Babars 46 being better than Kohlis in any ICC tourney? How about dismissing 2013 final as nothing when you guys dodged a pressure cooker situation against SA in 2017 CT without having to play full quota?

I understand Babar is the glue for Pakistan and rightly so. I don't mind you guys portraying him as best ever but not at the cost of disrespectful comments against other player performances.

Lets get one thing out of the way first. Babar is nowhere close to Kohli. Its a joke to compare him to Kohli at this time and to be honest, i dont see him matching the class of Kohli ever as of now given what we have seen of him so far. However, future can always surprise us even if it seems improbable at this time.

Now coming back to the topic. If someone says Babar has a higher individual score than Kohli in an ICC final, then it is factually correct (unless i am forgetting some innings of Kohli here). However, that doesnt mean Kohli has not played important knocks in finals. Infact Kohli's CT13 knock was more important than Babar's CT17 knock in terms of impact. And Babar has only been in 1 final.
In terms of importance to the team's total i would rank these innings as :
1)Kohli's knock in CT13
2)Babar's knock in CT17
3)Kohli's knock in WC11

This too is subjective and you might rank them differently for your own reasons.

[Chief Destroyer]

Indians feeling threatened.

[WengerOut]

Lets get one thing out of the way first. Babar is nowhere close to Kohli. Its a joke to compare him to Kohli at this time and to be honest, i dont see him matching the class of Kohli ever as of now given what we have seen of him so far. However, future can always surprise us even if it seems improbable at this time.

Now coming back to the topic. If someone says Babar has a higher individual score than Kohli in an ICC final, then it is factually correct (unless i am forgetting some innings of Kohli here). However, that doesnt mean Kohli has not played important knocks in finals. Infact Kohli's CT13 knock was more important than Babar's CT17 knock in terms of impact. And Babar has only been in 1 final.
In terms of importance to the team's total i would rank these innings as :
1)Kohli's knock in CT13
2)Babar's knock in CT17
3)Kohli's knock in WC11

This too is subjective and you might rank them differently for your own reasons.

The comment was his 46 is greater than anything Kohli scored under pressure. No mention of final.

[Rahul1]

Indians feeling threatened.

LMAO. Our standards are high unlike yours.

[a_tahir]

LMAO. Our standards are high unlike yours.

Yeah...indians are feeling threatened

[spiderreddy]

Rayudu in ODIs :
47 Inns - 1661 runs - 50.33 avg - 79.7 SR
Babar : 57 Inns - 2462 runs - 51.29 avg - 84.66

Babar is winning :

[Hasan123]

Are you glorifying a cheat?

It's not about glorifying a a cheat. He's a better batter than Williamson. Tampering with the ball doesn't affect his ability to score runs. It only affects his reputation.

[Abdullah719]

Kohli, until that 133 against Sri Lanka had an ODI strike-rate hovering around 83 after around 80 ODI innings. During that innings, it went up and then 3 matches later, he hit 183 against Pakistan. Since those two innings, his SR has been on an upward curve.



Hopefully, Babar has it in him to play those type of knocks as well.

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli, until that 133 against Sri Lanka had an ODI strike-rate hovering around 83 after around 80 ODI innings. During that innings, it went up and then 3 matches later, he hit 183 against Pakistan. Since those two innings, his SR has been on an upward curve.



Hopefully, Babar has it in him to play those type of knocks as well.

Babar is never known for muscling the ball when needed. Kohli can just whip the ball from the stumps for six. such strong wrists. Many of us compare only numbers not their style of batting. not the way they construct the innings, Everyone has their own style. One can emulate another only to some extent. Tendulkar for all his spectacular stroke play could never match Sehwag all the time. Ponting couldn't match Gilchrist. Each player has to deliver their best within their own limitations. If you watch under 19 match of Kohli he was able to play those slappy cover drive even back then. Babar should stick to his strengths. Timing the ball, placing insider power play. One area he can improve is taking singles. HE is stuck in the middle overs. If an opposition wants to tie him down they can do it. He is not lethal,intimidating. In other words he is more like Amla. Given that he is Pakistan's best batsman he will go extra length to preserve his wicket which can lead to a stall somewhere in the middle. So if Babar wants to do well he has to find players that do reasonably well around him.

[Abdullah719]

Babar is never known for muscling the ball when needed. Kohli can just whip the ball from the stumps for six. such strong wrists. Many of us compare only numbers not their style of batting. not the way they construct the innings, Everyone has their own style. One can emulate another only to some extent. Tendulkar for all his spectacular stroke play could never match Sehwag all the time. Ponting couldn't match Gilchrist. Each player has to deliver their best within their own limitations. If you watch under 19 match of Kohli he was able to play those slappy cover drive even back then. Babar should stick to his strengths. Timing the ball, placing insider power play. One area he can improve is taking singles. HE is stuck in the middle overs. If an opposition wants to tie him down they can do it. He is not lethal,intimidating. In other words he is more like Amla. Given that he is Pakistan's best batsman he will go extra length to preserve his wicket which can lead to a stall somewhere in the middle. So if Babar wants to do well he has to find players that do reasonably well around him.

Agreed with all you've said there.

I wasn't saying that Babar needs to copy Kohli or match him, but I think most people are in agreement that we'd like to see his strike-rate improve.

A more stable batting order should help. He was a bit more enterprising at times in the SA ODIs, whilst batting alongside the openers. But the batting is too top heavy at the moment, losing two early wickets means the opposition has a very strong chance of winning the game.

[jnaveen1980]

Agreed with all you've said there.

I wasn't saying that Babar needs to copy Kohli or match him, but I think most people are in agreement that we'd like to see his strike-rate improve.

A more stable batting order should help. He was a bit more enterprising at times in the SA ODIs, whilst batting alongside the openers. But the batting is too top heavy at the moment, losing two early wickets means the opposition has a very strong chance of winning the game.

That is where the strike rotation comes into picture. Tip and aggressively run. In order to do that you have to be supremely athletic and fit. Dhoni (when he was good), Kohli, Azharuddin, Miandad are some of the players who rely heavily on singles and twos. Gambhir and Sehwag despite flamebuoyant stroke play, Tendulkar all depended on those tip and run singles. Babar has to improve in this area. That is one 101 of becoming a great ODI batsman.

[jnaveen1980]

i am going to share couple of Azharuddin knocks from top of my memory

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...-asia-cup-1990

108 runs 116 balls strike rate 93 just 7 fours. That means he ran 80 runs !! He was master of "TWO"s

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1...sri-lanka-1997

111 runs 117 balls strike rate 95, just 5 fours. He ran 91 runs

[Mr. Cricket]

Babar is far better than Kohli was at the same stage in his career. The numbers do not tell you that Kohli was sitting cozy in the middle-order with Sachin, Sehwag and Gambhir above him and Dhoni, Yuvraj and Raina below him.

Babar is batting at #3 as the main batsman in his team and knows that if he doesn't score, the team will probably struggle to put together a decent total. Also, his innings at the 2017 CT final is a better pressure innings than anything Kohli has done in an ICC tournament, thus far.

Can someone post their test match stats as well?

Lol either you don't watch cricket or pretend to be a blind follower of a minnow bashing batsmen. Kohli play crucial knock in WC 11 final in chasing and also crucial 46 not out in CT final 2013 . It's fakhar 100 that absorb all pressure. We saw him in Asia cup how avg he is , also most of his run are against minnows like WI and SL. This comparison shows how insecure Pakistani fans are. He is just an avg player in below avg team that makes him look good. Don't put pressure on that guy , he is not Kohli who thrives on pressure.

[Green Patriot]

Why does every thread about Babar turn into Babar vs Kohli fight.
I feel Mickey Arthur is responsible for this.

Anyways once and for all.
1)Babar is a very good player.
2)Babar is not near Kohli in any way.
3)Babar may or may not achieve Kohli's levels in the future but that is something we will fight about when the future comes.
4)Lets discuss Babar vs Kohli after both players retire.

Also,
5)Pandya is no where near Babar's class in terms of batting.

[Bilal7]

It's not about glorifying a a cheat. He's a better batter than Williamson. Tampering with the ball doesn't affect his ability to score runs. It only affects his reputation.

Tampering with the ball is cheating. There are many ways in which it provides an unfair advantage to the batsmen of the guilty team but that is not the point. For someone who has a problem with Ajmal, who never bowled a single illegal delivery in his career, that should exclude Smith from being compared with honest players like Kane and Babar. However, knowing you, that will not be the case.

The comment was his 46 is greater than anything Kohli scored under pressure. No mention of final.

Wrong. I clearly said that Babar's innings in the 2017 CT final is better than anything that Kohli has done so far in an ICC tournament match. Given that we have been comparing them in the ODI format, it is obvious that T20 matches are excluded for the discussion.

Kohli has undoubtedly played several pressure innings outside of ICC tournaments.

So you think scoring at an average SR in a game when the bulk of heavy lifting was already been done by the guy at the other end, with his team batting first, first wicket down after 120 and the eventual score was 338, is great innings under pressure. Fair enough, your opinion . Now go and watch 2011 final innings. By your own scale, how about scoring 35 when 2 of your best batsmen are dismissed without not too much on scorecard, forming a partnership with the senior pro to take the team out of dicey situation, CHASING 270 IN A WC FINAL? Did not allow RRR to blow up and thats what required. But hey suddenly SR mattered to you.

PS:, Kohli averages 101 in CT knockouts. I can already hear excuses like you used for CT 2013 final.

Pakistan score three hundred and thirty-eight runs in the CT final. That was an outstanding total. For someone to even criticize the batsmen in that match is bordering on insanity. Like I explained, Babar wasn't plodding along at a SR of 70 during his innings, he upped his SR when required and got out trying to hit a six. It was a very good innings, made better by the occasion.

Two of India's best batsmen? Yuvraj was the MOTT, Dhoni was at his best back then and Gambhir was batting. If any Indian fan was worried about anything other than the fact that their god had choked in two WC finals at that point, I question their knowledge of the game. India were never failing in that chase and the fact that Dhoni finished unbeaten and Yuvraj wasn't even needed tells us as much.

Any half-decent batsman can score 30 runs at a SR of 70. Many tail-enders can do something like that. That may have been a decent innings given the context but without it, it was a poor innings no matter what. A 46 scored at a SR of around 85 is a good innings in almost any situation and given the context, it was a very good innings.

The 2013 CT final was not a 50-overs game. That is not an excuse, it is a fact. When the discussion moves to the other formats, we can compared Babar and Kohli at the same stage in their careers, in T20 cricket.

[Bilal7]

Kohli, until that 133 against Sri Lanka had an ODI strike-rate hovering around 83 after around 80 ODI innings. During that innings, it went up and then 3 matches later, he hit 183 against Pakistan. Since those two innings, his SR has been on an upward curve.



Hopefully, Babar has it in him to play those type of knocks as well.

80 ODIs is a fairly long time away for Babar. He will cross that bridge when he gets there. As of now, he is far ahead of where Kohli was and no one can deny that.

[tijnar]

Kohli has no more to prove, has won wc,CT,lost in t20,CTfinal. No 1 test team, swept all icc award's in 2018. Babur has only avg to show beside a CT . Given a choice who do you want in ur team. Definitely not babur when Kohli is there

[Bilal7]

The hysteria is hilarious. No one is claming that Babar is better than Kohli (yet). People are only pointing out that Babar is ahead of Kohli at a similar stage in their development. It is like saying that team 'B' has a score of 120 for the loss of one wicket after 20 overs and so, is better placed than team 'K' who were 100/2 after 20 overs.

This does not mean that team 'B' has already won the match, given that team 'K' scored over 350 in their innings.

[Hawkeye]

80 ODIs is a fairly long time away for Babar. He will cross that bridge when he gets there. As of now, he is far ahead of where Kohli was and no one can deny that.

You're wrong.

VK had far more impactful and match winning knocks against the top sides at that stage.

[Bilal7]

You're wrong.

VK had far more impactful and match winning knocks against the top sides at that stage.

Please expand upon your claim.

[Mamoon]

India is the last country that will feel insecure with respect to Babar and be disappointed with his rise.

They are a batting factory and produce 2-3 elite batsmen every generation.

To showcase the difference between Pakistani and Indian fans, I always give example of Karun Nair.

He scored 300 against England in his very second Test, but Indian fans do not hype him and he has been given limited opportunities after that innings.

Imagine if someone like Saud Shakeel or Saad Ali score 300 in their second Test against England.

He will immediately be dubbed a legend in the making, and will be compared to every great batsman in history. The hype will be insane and that innings will be milked for a decade.

It all comes down to the standards of the respective fan base. Indians have extremely high standards as far as batting is concerned. They have produced several all-time greats and will continue to do so.

On the contrary, this new generation of Pakistani fans don’t know what it is like to have a great batsman across all formats in their team.

Especially, the fans who grew up in the Misbah era. Older era fans who saw Miandad, Inzamam and MoYo have higher standards as well, and do not go overboard with the Babar hype.

As I have stated multiple times, Babar is the best batsman produced by Pakistan since MoYo emerged in 97-98. Yes he is better and a more complete player than Younis as well.

He doesn’t have his craft against spin bowling yet, but against other types of bowling, he is already better.

However, let’s not embarrass ourselves with the Kohli comparisons. Kohli is miles better than every batsman in Pakistan history, and is already among the top 5 most complete batsmen to have played the game.

You can be a great player and still be inferior to Kohli. Let’s hope Babar fulfills his potential and becomes Pakistan’s greatest batsman, but he will never be Kohli.

It takes a lot more than consistent run scoring and good shot making ability to become Kohli. His dedication, intensity, pride, on-field presence and domination etc. are at a different level to most players in history.

[AMSS]

The hysteria is hilarious. No one is claming that Babar is better than Kohli (yet). People are only pointing out that Babar is ahead of Kohli at a similar stage in their development. It is like saying that team 'B' has a score of 120 for the loss of one wicket after 20 overs and so, is better placed than team 'K' who were 100/2 after 20 overs.

This does not mean that team 'B' has already won the match, given that team 'K' scored over 350 in their innings.

Babar will automatically get the respect once he starts averaging better than 33 against the top 5 ODI sides. I mean, he has a grand total of 1 century against the top 5 teams. His SR is abysmal too, hovering at 80. Pandya has scored more runs per inning over the last 3 years against top 5 teams and that too at a SR of 120.

Can Babar do better than pandya?

[Khan12]

Babar will automatically get the respect once he starts averaging better than 33 against the top 5 ODI sides. I mean, he has a grand total of 1 century against the top 5 teams. His SR is abysmal too, hovering at 80. Pandya has scored more runs per inning over the last 3 years against top 5 teams and that too at a SR of 120.

Can Babar do better than pandya?

Can you give us proof of your statistics plz. @Abdullah719.

[barah_admi]

If we must be hellbent on constant comparisons with kohli, then remember that the Indian great started his career batting alongside Tendulkar, sehwag, Sharma, Dhoni and Co.

Babar, for two plus years has been Pakistan main batsman across the two shorter formats and he isn't even 25 yet. Over the last year, he has had to become Pakistan main test batsman too and in South Africa looked the most fluid batsman of the lot.

Kohli never had these responsibilities so early on. Neither did Smith nor root. Williamson is probably the best comparison of the four.

[a_tahir]

If we must be hellbent on constant comparisons with kohli, then remember that the Indian great started his career batting alongside Tendulkar, sehwag, Sharma, Dhoni and Co.

Babar, for two plus years has been Pakistan main batsman across the two shorter formats and he isn't even 25 yet. Over the last year, he has had to become Pakistan main test batsman too and in South Africa looked the most fluid batsman of the lot.

Kohli never had these responsibilities so early on. Neither did Smith nor root. Williamson is probably the best comparison of the four.

Now root has been given similar responsibilities and look at how badly he's struggling.

[barah_admi]

Now root has been given similar responsibilities and look at how badly he's struggling.

Exactly, although root is still in terrific form in the shorter formats. In tests, he loosn muddled, although he performed in sl.

Babar has had to shoulder these responsibilities for almost his entire career, which creates different types of pressure.

[Hasan123]

Tampering with the ball is cheating. There are many ways in which it provides an unfair advantage to the batsmen of the guilty team but that is not the point. For someone who has a problem with Ajmal, who never bowled a single illegal delivery in his career, that should exclude Smith from being compared with honest players like Kane and Babar. However, knowing you, that will not be the case.



Wrong. I clearly said that Babar's innings in the 2017 CT final is better than anything that Kohli has done so far in an ICC tournament match. Given that we have been comparing them in the ODI format, it is obvious that T20 matches are excluded for the discussion.

Kohli has undoubtedly played several pressure innings outside of ICC tournaments.



Pakistan score three hundred and thirty-eight runs in the CT final. That was an outstanding total. For someone to even criticize the batsmen in that match is bordering on insanity. Like I explained, Babar wasn't plodding along at a SR of 70 during his innings, he upped his SR when required and got out trying to hit a six. It was a very good innings, made better by the occasion.

Two of India's best batsmen? Yuvraj was the MOTT, Dhoni was at his best back then and Gambhir was batting. If any Indian fan was worried about anything other than the fact that their god had choked in two WC finals at that point, I question their knowledge of the game. India were never failing in that chase and the fact that Dhoni finished unbeaten and Yuvraj wasn't even needed tells us as much.

Any half-decent batsman can score 30 runs at a SR of 70. Many tail-enders can do something like that. That may have been a decent innings given the context but without it, it was a poor innings no matter what. A 46 scored at a SR of around 85 is a good innings in almost any situation and given the context, it was a very good innings.

The 2013 CT final was not a 50-overs game. That is not an excuse, it is a fact. When the discussion moves to the other formats, we can compared Babar and Kohli at the same stage in their careers, in T20 cricket.

How does tampering with the ball affect your batting? It is cheating and he has been punished. But Ajmal cheating is what made him so successful. Ball tampering or not Smith is a world class batsmen. You literally make no sense at all.

[Rahul1]

Babar will automatically get the respect once he starts averaging better than 33 against the top 5 ODI sides. I mean, he has a grand total of 1 century against the top 5 teams. His SR is abysmal too, hovering at 80. Pandya has scored more runs per inning over the last 3 years against top 5 teams and that too at a SR of 120.

Can Babar do better than pandya?

That too in a losing cause. Some future great this guy is.

[jnaveen1980]

Indian player vs Pakistan player comparison always go in all different directions. How about comparing him with past Pakistan greats

Babar Azam vs Saeed Anwar
Babar Azam vs Inzamam
Babar Azam vs Moyo
Babar Azam vs Salim Malik

Who is the closest to him?

[Usman Chadda]

Indian player vs Pakistan player comparison always go in all different directions. How about comparing him with past Pakistan greats

Babar Azam vs Saeed Anwar
Babar Azam vs Inzamam
Babar Azam vs Moyo
Babar Azam vs Salim Malik

Who is the closest to him?

He has to go a long way to come close to any of these gentlemen.

Same goes for comparisons with Kohli. Babar is very good, in top 10 in the world certainly. But his best is yet to come.

[AMSS]

Can you give us proof of your statistics plz. @Abdullah719.

I did post statsguru screenshots on the previous page. Nevertheless, here you go.

[rudra]

after 21 tests ...
B Azam 40inn 1235runs@35, 1 100
King Kohli 35 inn 1450@45, 5 100s (2 overseas)

[Bilal7]

How does tampering with the ball affect your batting? It is cheating and he has been punished. But Ajmal cheating is what made him so successful. Ball tampering or not Smith is a world class batsmen. You literally make no sense at all.

Tampering with the ball means that Smith was not faced with opposing batsmen making bigger scores than they did and thus reducing the pressure on him to score more runs. It is far easier to bat when the opposition scores 300 compared to when they score 600. Since he was also the captain, cheating made his job much easier for him while honest blokes like Root have seen their performances suffer due to the pressures of captaining without cheating.

So, are you going to expose your hypocrisy by bashing Saeed Ajmal, who never cheated, in one thread and lionizing Smith who is a certified cheat, in another?

Babar will automatically get the respect once he starts averaging better than 33 against the top 5 ODI sides. I mean, he has a grand total of 1 century against the top 5 teams. His SR is abysmal too, hovering at 80. Pandya has scored more runs per inning over the last 3 years against top 5 teams and that too at a SR of 120.

Can Babar do better than pandya?

Once again, Pandya who? He is not a current top batsman and thus, you should stop posting this nonsense. If you have anything resembling an argument with regards to how Kohli did against the "top 5" teams, I'm all ears.

[barah_admi]

When Kohli made his debut, he opened the innings, later he was moved down the order, dropped multiple times because of the competition and a relatively settled batting line up.

Babar on the other hand hasn't had so much competition and a static batting spot which reflects in better stats.

Can you clarify the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that because Babar has batted in a weaker team, with far more responsibility at a far younger age, he is a better batsman because of it?

In terms of your other points, he only opened in 5 of the 59 matches talked about here. The majority of his batting innings, 35 to be exact, were at number three. He also played consistently throughout 2009 and then even more throughout 2010 and 11, all the while playing alongside and learning from the likes of Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dhoni et al. That would have m ade things easier for him rather than harder.

[WengerOut]

Pakistan score three hundred and thirty-eight runs in the CT final. That was an outstanding total. For someone to even criticize the batsmen in that match is bordering on insanity. Like I explained, Babar wasn't plodding along at a SR of 70 during his innings, he upped his SR when required and got out trying to hit a six. It was a very good innings, made better by the occasion.

Two of India's best batsmen? Yuvraj was the MOTT, Dhoni was at his best back then and Gambhir was batting. If any Indian fan was worried about anything other than the fact that their god had choked in two WC finals at that point, I question their knowledge of the game. India were never failing in that chase and the fact that Dhoni finished unbeaten and Yuvraj wasn't even needed tells us as much.

Any half-decent batsman can score 30 runs at a SR of 70. Many tail-enders can do something like that. That may have been a decent innings given the context but without it, it was a poor innings no matter what. A 46 scored at a SR of around 85 is a good innings in almost any situation and given the context, it was a very good innings.

The 2013 CT final was not a 50-overs game. That is not an excuse, it is a fact. When the discussion moves to the other formats, we can compared Babar and Kohli at the same stage in their careers, in T20 cricket.

So scoring at a rate less than what they were currently going while setting a target when you have been given a fantastic platform in a CT final is better than going at a rate while chasing when 2 of your best batsmen have gone, when you know exactly what rate is required and doesn't allow the rate to balloon up and that too in an even bigger WC final? Salute your logic. Even Shoaib Maliks innings was better since it did not last longer. It was the 6th best innings of Pakistan. And only 6 players batted.


Yuvraj might have been MOTT but that was because of his allround exploits. Sachin was the best batsmen of that tournament ( Almost equalling Dilshan on statistics). He was crucial in QF and MOM in SF. But hey since he failed in the final, it must be choking right? But that is not surprising since you consider Inzi with an avg of 32 in ICC KO more clutch than Sachin with an average of 48.

Sehwag was about giving explosive starts as you can revisit the WC and see.


CT 2013 final was a reduced 50 over game. In that case, i don't consider Pak winning CT 2017 since they did not play SA full quota. And i am not going to the match in 1992 WC against England. By the way, you dodged the fact that Kohli averages 101 in CT knockouts. Or was that not an ICC tournament.?

[Hasan123]

Tampering with the ball means that Smith was not faced with opposing batsmen making bigger scores than they did and thus reducing the pressure on him to score more runs. It is far easier to bat when the opposition scores 300 compared to when they score 600. Since he was also the captain, cheating made his job much easier for him while honest blokes like Root have seen their performances suffer due to the pressures of captaining without cheating.

So, are you going to expose your hypocrisy by bashing Saeed Ajmal, who never cheated, in one thread and lionizing Smith who is a certified cheat, in another?



Once again, Pandya who? He is not a current top batsman and thus, you should stop posting this nonsense. If you have anything resembling an argument with regards to how Kohli did against the "top 5" teams, I'm all ears.

Other than 1 game do you have any proof and have they been convicted of ball tampering in other games? Who are you to make accusations without any proof. They cheated and have been punished. I have not defended that action unlike you finds a way to defend chucking .

Furthermore you call Akmal an ATG spinner when his success came through an illegal action. Steve Smith is the 2nd best batter of this era, that is fact regardless of his antics. Ball tampering does not affect his batting and I won’t sit here and defend ball tampering like you sit and defend javlin throwing as a bowling action.

[Anuj25]

Babar is an excellent player and an future great but i doubt he will be able to match Kohli.
All format combined, I don't think anyone from the current lot will be able to come close to Kohli.
Kohli has been a freak in the last few years