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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Australia - Sri Lanka 0-3
    New Zealand - India 0-3
    England - Pakistan 0-2

    Where is the impact? Where are the match-saving/winning innings? I see a lot of people bashing the likes of Younis Khan for failing overseas but it seems like the top batsmen of this era are even worse when they step outside of home.

    Do you also think these batsmen are a bit overrated in tests and previous generation like KP, Younis, Sanga, Amla, etc. deserve more respect?
    When the world talks about how good they are, they are still talking it relatively to todays cricket. No commentator praising them, praises them for being THE batting stars of all eras combined, they rate them keeping todays cricket standards in mind.

    Because its true that amongst todays batsmen, they are better than most, hence their rankings and importance.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Just like Williamson went missing in India, Smith in Sri Lanka, and Root scoring soft runs in the UAE.
    They haven't retired yet, they have a decade of Test cricket still to play and should make rectify any weaknesses. If not, they won't be considered better than their predecessors. However, it is way too early to call them overrated and this is a harsh thread.

    If any current Test batsman deserves to be called overrated, it's de Villiers.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    They haven't retired yet, they have a decade of Test cricket still to play and should make rectify any weaknesses. If not, they won't be considered better than their predecessors. However, it is way too early to call them overrated and this is a harsh thread.

    If any current Test batsman deserves to be called overrated, it's de Villiers.
    Then they should be rated that high when they have performed in tougher tours away from home.

    How is Devilliers overrated?. Even on rank-turners in India, he averaged more than all batsmen from both sides.

  4. #84
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    In Tests KW is the best out of the lot for mine. His overall numbers might not reflect that for the time being but he’s technically and temperamentally top notch. Only last couple of years or so he has found his groove in international cricket and I would be very surprised it he doesn’t rack up big numbers from here on in. Unlike the others on there tho his path might be a bit tougher given the lack of support from the other end.



  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    like i stated AB is an idiot.
    One minute he says one thing the next he says something completely different.
    Are you aware AB requested CSA to relinquish his T20 captaincy? Guess why?
    Yep, you've got it right, "WORKLOAD".
    How can it be the very same player who felt overburdened want to captain the Test side? Specifically after he moaned to CSA on numerous occasions about one thing to the next, what were they to do?
    But hey at least his buddy is the T20 captain.
    I refuse to allow my country to be polarized by de Villiers. If he wants to quit, so be it.
    Maybe. I can't really comment much on it. You must be knowing things better than me.

    Anyways, SA don't have options for captaincy unless Faf gets his form back completely and if he plays then there can be racial quotas problems which needs to be considered too.

    Aus series should be fun with a bowling attack of Steyn, Rabadda and Philander. A fifth bowling option would have helped the cause on flat Aussies pitches.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Then they should be rated that high when they have performed in tougher tours away from home.
    They are rated just fine. No one is calling them legends already; they are simply world class batsmen who have the potential to become legends, based on their talent, temperament, appetite for big runs, consistency etc. etc. Given their age and experience, you simply can't ask for more at this stage unless you are Bradman.

    How is Devilliers overrated?. Even on rank-turners in India, he averaged more than all batsmen from both sides.
    de Villiers has had a comfortable and cushioned Test career. He emerged as part of SA's greatest ever Test team and he had three batting stalwarts around him - Kallis, Smith and Amla, who are all superior Test batsmen.

    He has played 100+ Tests and is much older than the likes of Root, Williamson, Smith, Kohli and Rahane, but in terms of impactful/memorable innings, they have pretty much caught up with him and his century tally is low as well. He has 21 centuries in 106 Tests and all the batsmen that I mentioned will have more centuries by the time they get to 106 Tests.

    The likes of Smith, Williamson and Kohli are pretty much catching up already and they have played half the number of Tests.

    de Villiers has never had to carry the burden of SA's batting because for most of his career, he wasn't even in their top 3 best batsmen.

    In comparison, the likes of Kohli, Williamson, Root and Smith had to carry the responsibility of their team at a much younger age.

    NZ is pretty much a one man team now and Root's rise coincided with the decline/retirement of Pietersen, Trott, Bell and Prior which meant that he had to carry their batting along with Cook.

    Similarly, Smith had to bear the burden of Australia's batting after the retirement of Ponting and Hussey and the injuries of Clarke who is now retired as well. Kohli became a regular in the Indian Test side at the end of the careers of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman.

    These young players simply did not have the cushion that de Villiers got for the most part of his Test career and although he as very good all-round record, for the aforementioned reasons, I would put him below Sangakkara, Cook, Graeme Smith, Amla, Clarke, Younis and Pietersen amongst Test batsmen who made their debuts in the last 10-15 years, i.e. Test batsmen of his generation.

    de Villiers' real challenge in Test cricket started a couple of years ago only when Smith and Kallis retired and he became the senior batsmen alongside Amla. However, he has given enough indications that he wants to quit Tests. In fact, the way the captaincy got forced onto him suggests that it was a ploy by CSA to block his Test retirement.

    Speaking of the Indian series, he might have the best average, but we all know Rahane was the batsman of the series. Only batsman to score a hundred and he did it twice.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Then they should be rated that high when they have performed in tougher tours away from home.

    How is Devilliers overrated?. Even on rank-turners in India, he averaged more than all batsmen from both sides.
    Nope. Mohali and Nagpur were the rank turners in that series. De Villiers averaged 22 in the rank turner tests.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    They are rated just fine. No one is calling them legends already; they are simply world class batsmen who have the potential to become legends, based on their talent, temperament, appetite for big runs, consistency etc. etc. Given their age and experience, you simply can't ask for more at this stage unless you are Bradman.



    de Villiers has had a comfortable and cushioned Test career. He emerged as part of SA's greatest ever Test team and he had three batting stalwarts around him - Kallis, Smith and Amla, who are all superior Test batsmen.

    He has played 100+ Tests and is much older than the likes of Root, Williamson, Smith, Kohli and Rahane, but in terms of impactful/memorable innings, they have pretty much caught up with him and his century tally is low as well. He has 21 centuries in 106 Tests and all the batsmen that I mentioned will have more centuries by the time they get to 106 Tests.

    The likes of Smith, Williamson and Kohli are pretty much catching up already and they have played half the number of Tests.

    de Villiers has never had to carry the burden of SA's batting because for most of his career, he wasn't even in their top 3 best batsmen.

    In comparison, the likes of Kohli, Williamson, Root and Smith had to carry the responsibility of their team at a much younger age.

    NZ is pretty much a one man team now and Root's rise coincided with the decline/retirement of Pietersen, Trott, Bell and Prior which meant that he had to carry their batting along with Cook.

    Similarly, Smith had to bear the burden of Australia's batting after the retirement of Ponting and Hussey and the injuries of Clarke who is now retired as well. Kohli became a regular in the Indian Test side at the end of the careers of Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman.

    These young players simply did not have the cushion that de Villiers got for the most part of his Test career and although he as very good all-round record, for the aforementioned reasons, I would put him below Sangakkara, Cook, Graeme Smith, Amla, Clarke, Younis and Pietersen amongst Test batsmen who made their debuts in the last 10-15 years, i.e. Test batsmen of his generation.

    de Villiers' real challenge in Test cricket started a couple of years ago only when Smith and Kallis retired and he became the senior batsmen alongside Amla. However, he has given enough indications that he wants to quit Tests. In fact, the way the captaincy got forced onto him suggests that it was a ploy by CSA to block his Test retirement.

    Speaking of the Indian series, he might have the best average, but we all know Rahane was the batsman of the series. Only batsman to score a hundred and he did it twice.
    Absolutely incorrect post factually

    Smith had a tremendous support from Warner, Clarke, Rogers, and Watson. Even the likes of Khwaja, Voges, etc. bat like ATGs in home tests.

    Root is a part of a very strong batting line up which bats all the way to #8.

    Kohli has tremendous support from Rahane and Vijay. In the past, he played with ATGs.

    Williamson is the only batsman who plays for a weak team.

    Devilliers is definitely below Amla, Sanga, Cook, etc. However, it is ridiculous to say he does not have impactful/memorable innings when he actually has more of these innings compared to Smith, Williamson, and Root. His match-winning 217 vs India in Ahmedabad, 174 in Leeds, 169 in Perth in a low scoring match, 33* of 220 balls to save the match in Adelaide. Come back when they have played Devilliers like innings. Often, they score runs when conditions are the easiest and go missing when things get tough. Asian tours is a clear example.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Nope. Mohali and Nagpur were the rank turners in that series. De Villiers averaged 22 in the rank turner tests.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting
    I meant the entire series, not just 2 tests.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I meant the entire series, not just 2 tests.
    I think Rahane averaged 50+ in entire series and second best was around 35 from both sides. If I recall it right then It was AB.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Poor thread. All four are top class and not overrated at all.

    As for as the previous generation players are concerned, I think they will overtake Pietersen, Clarke, de Villiers etc. because they are more consistent and go missing less frequently while they will overtake Younis because they have more big innings away from their comfort zones. Root has already done better than Younis in SA (one a tougher pitch) and Kohli in Australia, and they are only getting started.

    Please don't bring his 200 at the Oval to prove his prowess. It was a great innings but he failed miserably in every other innings and he was one of the main reasons why we didn't win the series. If it was a 3 match series people would have been calling for his head now. For a so-called ATG and champion Test player, he had a poor series.

    Sangakkara, Cook and Amla will be difficult to overtake but they can be matched. They are/were extremely consistent and performed everywhere.
    Ah not surprised you are trying to deflect the blame on YK as usual.

    One of the main reason why we didn't win that series was due to Azhar. For a so called great batsman - he had only one good innings and that too in a losing cause at Edgabaston. It proved inconsequential anyway as he was nowhere to be found when we collapsed during the last day.

    YK had a poor series up to that point but his double hundred was a match winning knock and ensure we were in the driver's seat throughout most of that match.

    Shafiq got a pair at Edgabaston but it could be excused as just one bad game for him since he performed at Lord's and the Oval too.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Ah not surprised you are trying to deflect the blame on YK as usual.

    One of the main reason why we didn't win that series was due to Azhar. For a so called great batsman - he had only one good innings and that too in a losing cause at Edgabaston. It proved inconsequential anyway as he was nowhere to be found when we collapsed during the last day.

    YK had a poor series up to that point but his double hundred was a match winning knock and ensure we were in the driver's seat throughout most of that match.

    Shafiq got a pair at Edgabaston but it could be excused as just one bad game for him since he performed at Lord's and the Oval too.
    People always bring up the past. It doesn't matter anymore. We should focus on this WI series. On topic, 3 of these guys have the potential to be the best Test batsman their countries have ever produced. Kohli can be an Indian great, but he won't be their ATG best Test batsman.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    People always bring up the past. It doesn't matter anymore. We should focus on this WI series. On topic, 3 of these guys have the potential to be the best Test batsman their countries have ever produced. Kohli can be an Indian great, but he won't be their ATG best Test batsman.
    As far as Tests are concerned - Williamson and Root are better than Smith and Kohli (despite Smith's average)

    ODI's, Kohli is the undisputed no. 1

    Both formats combined - Williamson is probably the best since he has good numbers in both Tests and ODI's but is not the best in any one particular format.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Maybe. I can't really comment much on it. You must be knowing things better than me.

    Anyways, SA don't have options for captaincy unless Faf gets his form back completely and if he plays then there can be racial quotas problems which needs to be considered too.

    Aus series should be fun with a bowling attack of Steyn, Rabadda and Philander. A fifth bowling option would have helped the cause on flat Aussies pitches.
    yeah, not someone who'll only roll his arm but bowl with mongrel. Morris comes to mind, but who can blame him when he was awarded a million dollar contract for the first time.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    yeah, not someone who'll only roll his arm but bowl with mongrel. Morris comes to mind, but who can blame him when he was awarded a million dollar contract for the first time.
    Not sure if this is the reason Morris misses out. I would rather say it would be hard to find his place in a team because bringing him as a fifth option would mean the batting becomes weaker and then there is a problem of adjusting players on basis of racial quotas and hence it would become even harder for Chris to get into playing XI.

    As a player, he is a very fine all- rounder to start with. You can't expect him to become world class in just 10 tests.

    He is a good all-rounder who deserves to be given more chance ( unlike a certain JP gets) and with more games can be transformed into a world class one .

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Ah not surprised you are trying to deflect the blame on YK as usual.

    One of the main reason why we didn't win that series was due to Azhar. For a so called great batsman - he had only one good innings and that too in a losing cause at Edgabaston. It proved inconsequential anyway as he was nowhere to be found when we collapsed during the last day.

    YK had a poor series up to that point but his double hundred was a match winning knock and ensure we were in the driver's seat throughout most of that match.

    Shafiq got a pair at Edgabaston but it could be excused as just one bad game for him since he performed at Lord's and the Oval too.
    Azhar can't take bat and bowl for the team. We lost the Edgbaston Test because of our batting collapse and pathetic bowling in the second innings. Without Azhar in the first innings we would probably have been battered like Old Trafford.

    Younis was Pakistan's worst batsman for the first three Tests. He batted like a clown and even Masood showed more fight than him.

    For a so-called ATG and legend, it is simply not acceptable. He got lucky that others turned up and there was still something to play for at The Oval, even though he was playing for England for the first three Tests.

    He might have ended up with the most runs and highest average due to that big innings, but anyone who followed the series would know that he wasn't one of Pakistan's better performers at all.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Absolutely incorrect post factually

    Smith had a tremendous support from Warner, Clarke, Rogers, and Watson. Even the likes of Khwaja, Voges, etc. bat like ATGs in home tests.
    Smith has been leading Australia's batting since 2013 after Clarke lead their batting during 2011-2012. The likes of Voges and Khawaja have had two good series only and became part of the team only last year.

    Watson has been an inconsequential, poor Test batsman since his purple patch in 2009-10. He averages like 30 odd in the last 30 Tests that he has played.

    Michael Clarke himself averaged in the mid 30's since 2013 once his back gave up. He has been playing through painkillers and was half the player he was.

    Good call with Rogers, he provided ample support. However, keeping all of this in mind, you cannot compare the support Smith has had in the early days of his Test career to the support de Villiers got from Smith, Kallis and Amla.

    The difference is huge.

    Root is a part of a very strong batting line up which bats all the way to #8.
    England have a good batting lineup now (although not without 2-3 headaches) but they were a mess during 2014 and the better part of 2015 due to the loss of Pietersen, Trott, Prior and Bell, and they are still struggling to find an opener for Cook.

    Cook himself had a lean patch in 2014-2015 (before UAE tour) where he finally got back to his best. The likes of Bairstow got going in the summer of 2015 only and Moeen Ali has had one series only (vs Pakistan last summer) where he looked like a proper Test batsman.

    Joe Root has been the only consistent performer in the batting lineup during all this time and has had too much responsibility on his shoulders.

    The 2015 Ashes is a good example. He was pretty much a one man show for England with the bat and the only one who scored hundreds. Almost every other batsman averaged in the early 30s and 20s.

    That Ashes alone proves his caliber and de Villiers has never had so much responsibility up until the last couple of years, where he failed miserably in Sri Lanka and Amla was standing tall on his own. That series alone sums up how overrated de Villiers is as a Test batsman and how inferior he is to Amla in this format.
    Kohli has tremendous support from Rahane and Vijay. In the past, he played with ATGs.
    Again, Kohli became a Test regular on the Australian tour in 2011/12, where he batted at number 6 and had a decent series. He was the only Indian who scored a century.

    Tendulkar was decent while Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman failed badly. Both Dravid and Laxman retired on that tour.

    Tendulkar played till the end of 2013 but he was averaging in the mid 20's till then and was completely over the hill.

    Sehwag only played for a few more Tests and was over the hill as well.

    So what do you mean by the in the past he played with ATGs?

    As I explained, they were ATGs at that time only by name. They were all expired by the time Kohli became a Test regular and thus, he was immediately thrusted with way too much responsibility as he ushered the team into a new era without legends like Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman. Proven performers like Gambhir also lost their way and it was down to Kohli, Pujara and Rahane to carry the Indian batting.

    Again, you cannot compare his situation and support to de Villiers. If he would have played with Tendulkar or Dravid who were still at their peak like de Villiers did with Kallis and Amla, then it would have been comparable.

    Williamson is the only batsman who plays for a weak team.
    Weak team means nothing. We are talking about the strength of batting lineups.
    Devilliers is definitely below Amla, Sanga, Cook, etc.
    If de Villiers is not among the top 4-5 Test batsmen of his generation, than by rating him so highly in Tests, you are clearly overrating him. No great player in history struggled to be named in the top 4-5 of his time and still be remembered as a great. Hence this proves that de Villiers is a very good Test player but not the Test great that you make him to be, and the younger generation of players whom you call overrated have an excellent chance of overtaking him as a Test batsman.

    However, it is ridiculous to say he does not have impactful/memorable innings when he actually has more of these innings compared to Smith, Williamson, and Root. His match-winning 217 vs India in Ahmedabad, 174 in Leeds, 169 in Perth in a low scoring match, 33* of 220 balls to save the match in Adelaide. Come back when they have played Devilliers like innings.
    The guy has played 106 Tests. How many have the young 'overrated' batsmen played? They have already plenty of fantastic innings and are scoring hundreds at a better rate, in spite of having to deal with a lot more pressure and responsibility than de Villiers, who finally got exposed to that level of responsibility in the last 2 years and now he is already gassed out and is contemplating retirement from Tests because he wants to manage his 'workload'.

    That however is who de Villiers is. An extremely talented but soft cricketer, who does not have the heart to lead his team from the front and have the stomach for a fight, and that is why he is a pathetic captain and leader.

    If he would have been exposed to the amount of pressure and responsibility that Williamson, Smith, Root and Kohli have been earlier in his career in his early to mid 20's, he would have ran away from Test cricket long ago.

    Often, they score runs when conditions are the easiest and go missing when things get tough. Asian tours is a clear example.
    Looks like you missed SA's tour of SL in 2014.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith has been leading Australia's batting since 2013 after Clarke lead their batting during 2011-2012. The likes of Voges and Khawaja have had two good series only and became part of the team only last year.

    Watson has been an inconsequential, poor Test batsman since his purple patch in 2009-10. He averages like 30 odd in the last 30 Tests that he has played.

    Michael Clarke himself averaged in the mid 30's since 2013 once his back gave up. He has been playing through painkillers and was half the player he was.

    Good call with Rogers, he provided ample support. However, keeping all of this in mind, you cannot compare the support Smith has had in the early days of his Test career to the support de Villiers got from Smith, Kallis and Amla.

    The difference is huge.



    England have a good batting lineup now (although not without 2-3 headaches) but they were a mess during 2014 and the better part of 2015 due to the loss of Pietersen, Trott, Prior and Bell, and they are still struggling to find an opener for Cook.

    Cook himself had a lean patch in 2014-2015 (before UAE tour) where he finally got back to his best. The likes of Bairstow got going in the summer of 2015 only and Moeen Ali has had one series only (vs Pakistan last summer) where he looked like a proper Test batsman.

    Joe Root has been the only consistent performer in the batting lineup during all this time and has had too much responsibility on his shoulders.

    The 2015 Ashes is a good example. He was pretty much a one man show for England with the bat and the only one who scored hundreds. Almost every other batsman averaged in the early 30s and 20s.

    That Ashes alone proves his caliber and de Villiers has never had so much responsibility up until the last couple of years, where he failed miserably in Sri Lanka and Amla was standing tall on his own. That series alone sums up how overrated de Villiers is as a Test batsman and how inferior he is to Amla in this format.


    Again, Kohli became a Test regular on the Australian tour in 2011/12, where he batted at number 6 and had a decent series. He was the only Indian who scored a century.

    Tendulkar was decent while Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman failed badly. Both Dravid and Laxman retired on that tour.

    Tendulkar played till the end of 2013 but he was averaging in the mid 20's till then and was completely over the hill.

    Sehwag only played for a few more Tests and was over the hill as well.

    So what do you mean by the in the past he played with ATGs?

    As I explained, they were ATGs at that time only by name. They were all expired by the time Kohli became a Test regular and thus, he was immediately thrusted with way too much responsibility as he ushered the team into a new era without legends like Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman. Proven performers like Gambhir also lost their way and it was down to Kohli, Pujara and Rahane to carry the Indian batting.

    Again, you cannot compare his situation and support to de Villiers. If he would have played with Tendulkar or Dravid who were still at their peak like de Villiers did with Kallis and Amla, then it would have been comparable.



    Weak team means nothing. We are talking about the strength of batting lineups.


    If de Villiers is not among the top 4-5 Test batsmen of his generation, than by rating him so highly in Tests, you are clearly overrating him. No great player in history struggled to be named in the top 4-5 of his time and still be remembered as a great. Hence this proves that de Villiers is a very good Test player but not the Test great that you make him to be, and the younger generation of players whom you call overrated have an excellent chance of overtaking him as a Test batsman.



    The guy has played 106 Tests. How many have the young 'overrated' batsmen played? They have already plenty of fantastic innings and are scoring hundreds at a better rate, in spite of having to deal with a lot more pressure and responsibility than de Villiers, who finally got exposed to that level of responsibility in the last 2 years and now he is already gassed out and is contemplating retirement from Tests because he wants to manage his 'workload'.

    That however is who de Villiers is. An extremely talented but soft cricketer, who does not have the heart to lead his team from the front and have the stomach for a fight, and that is why he is a pathetic captain and leader.

    If he would have been exposed to the amount of pressure and responsibility that Williamson, Smith, Root and Kohli have been earlier in his career in his early to mid 20's, he would have ran away from Test cricket long ago.


    Looks like you missed SA's tour of SL in 2014.
    I am not sure why you thought I rate AB very high in tests. I did not even mention his name in my opening post.

    No need to type such long posts. AB is below the likes of Cook, Amla, Sanga, etc.

    However, batsmen like Smith, Williamson, Root, and Kohli have not surpassed AB yet. They might do it by the time they have played 100 matches.

  19. #99
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    Kohli is hyped more by Pakistanis than Indians tbh..

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I am not sure why you thought I rate AB very high in tests. I did not even mention his name in my opening post.

    No need to type such long posts. AB is below the likes of Cook, Amla, Sanga, etc.

    However, batsmen like Smith, Williamson, Root, and Kohli have not surpassed AB yet. They might do it by the time they have played 100 matches.
    I had to type a long post because you called my post factually incorrect, and I had to explain why it is not the case. Since you chose to ignore what I typed, I would take it that you agree that de Villiers is overhyped in Test cricket.

    I would agree and in fact have agreed already that IF Smith, Williamson, Root and Kohli retire NOW, they would rank below de Villiers in Tests. However, they are well on their way to overtaking him in this format based on their performance so far, both statistically and in terms of impact/performance.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I had to type a long post because you called my post factually incorrect, and I had to explain why it is not the case. Since you chose to ignore what I typed, I would take it that you agree that de Villiers is overhyped in Test cricket.

    I would agree and in fact have agreed already that IF Smith, Williamson, Root and Kohli retire NOW, they would rank below de Villiers in Tests. However, they are well on their way to overtaking him in this format based on their performance so far, both statistically and in terms of impact/performance.
    I am sure 8 out of 10 posters here do not rate AB that high in tests.

  22. #102
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    Here is a question:

    Batting line up of AB, Amla and Yunis vs Williamson, Smith and Root

    Which one would you pick for test?

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrish View Post
    Here is a question:

    Batting line up of AB, Amla and Yunis vs Williamson, Smith and Root

    Which one would you pick for test?
    Make it Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB vs Root, Williamson, Smith, and Kohli

    I will pick Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB if the game is played anywhere but Australia and England.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Make it Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB vs Root, Williamson, Smith, and Kohli

    I will pick Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB if the game is played anywhere but Australia and England.
    Why leave out England and Australia? The legends are better than the new breed in all and any country.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Why leave out England and Australia? The legends are better than the new breed in all and any country.
    Kohli and Root will surpass Amla anyway. Smith could as well not sure if Williamson will.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Kohli and Root will surpass Amla anyway. Smith could as well not sure if Williamson will.
    No, not a chance.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Make it Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB vs Root, Williamson, Smith, and Kohli

    I will pick Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB if the game is played anywhere but Australia and England.
    My combo would be Tendulkar , Dravid , Ponting and Lara . Dosent matter where the game is played .


    " you don't play for the crowd, you play for your country " - MSD

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    No, not a chance.
    So Kohli and Root won't surpass Amla is that what your saying?

    Kohli is already twice the LO player amla is and he's on his way in tests. Once he becomes patient he will leave Amla for dust in test as well.

    Root has more impact in LO than Amla does and just needs to score in subcontinent and Australia regularly to surpass Amla in tests.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Make it Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB vs Root, Williamson, Smith, and Kohli

    I will pick Sanga, Amla, Younis, and AB if the game is played anywhere but Australia and England.
    sanga is out of picture cause he is retired..

    My original question, honestly I am not sure if there is any difference

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    So Kohli and Root won't surpass Amla is that what your saying?

    Kohli is already twice the LO player amla is and he's on his way in tests. Once he becomes patient he will leave Amla for dust in test as well.

    Root has more impact in LO than Amla does and just needs to score in subcontinent and Australia regularly to surpass Amla in tests.
    You are not a very intelligent man. Yaha par sab test cricket ki baat karrahey hain, aur ye bhai ODIs ko beech mey ley aye.

    Your post isn't really worth responding to with throwaway statements like "... twice the LO player..." and lazy assumptions filling the rest of it.

    Kohli has no chance of overtaking Amla, he has far too many weaknesses and he isn't young enough to dramatically improve all of a sudden. Root has the potential but he won't be the first English batsman to fail to live up to lofty expectations (Trott, KP, Strauss, Bell being the rest).


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Not sure if this is the reason Morris misses out. I would rather say it would be hard to find his place in a team because bringing him as a fifth option would mean the batting becomes weaker and then there is a problem of adjusting players on basis of racial quotas and hence it would become even harder for Chris to get into playing XI.

    As a player, he is a very fine all- rounder to start with. You can't expect him to become world class in just 10 tests.

    He is a good all-rounder who deserves to be given more chance ( unlike a certain JP gets) and with more games can be transformed into a world class one .
    Morris is injured at the moment because he was playing through a knee injury in the IPL, when he could have opted for surgery. But I don't blame him, he was awarded that contract when he was on the fringes of the SA squad, and he rightfully honored it.

    I'm not expecting him to be a 'world class' anything. With his pace he could've added value to the tour.
    Lets be honest, the bowling figures will make for ugly reading, Australia are going to decimate our attack. This is where Morris comes in with his pace. He can induce a false stroke or an edge due to his pace, even if he's going at 4 an over.
    Steyn, Rabada and Morris can all bowl 140+ constantly which is a must in Australia. The Idea is not to stop Australia from scoring runs or scoring quickly, that's impossible, its akin to fighting a tide with a bucket.
    It's about stopping them racking up 200 partnerships and posting 500+ first innings total. If we can dismiss them around 390-420 even if they score at 5 (which they will), we would have a fighting chance.

    Two of the pitches are guaranteed to be flat, I would sacrifice a spinner (Shamsi) for Morris
    Elgar
    Cook
    Amla
    Faf
    AB (to protect the inexperienced lower order)
    Bavuma
    QdK+
    Morris
    Philander
    Rabada
    Steyn

    The likes of Elgar, AB, Faf would have to role their arms for a combined 10 overs, to relieve the quicks. It's a pity JP is useless with the bat, he could have handled that bulk single-handedly. It just shows how underrated batting all rounders are. Kallis really spoiled us. But Philander would have had to bowl the bulk of the bowling in order for Morris, Rabada and Steyn to operate at 140+.
    Or if we were to be really bold
    Elgar
    Cook
    Amla
    Faf
    AB (to protect the inexperienced lower order)
    QdK+
    Morris
    Philander
    Rabada
    Steyn
    Shamsi

    This would be an aggressive intent, meaning we're going for the win. SA will lose the series any how, 5 bowlers on a flat deck gives you options. Puts the top order under pressure to score big.

    But this is all a speculative rant, no AB, no Morris.
    (AS for the quota, it's flexible and not stringent. I won't explain the details as this post is long already)

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    Morris is injured at the moment because he was playing through a knee injury in the IPL, when he could have opted for surgery. But I don't blame him, he was awarded that contract when he was on the fringes of the SA squad, and he rightfully honored it.

    I'm not expecting him to be a 'world class' anything. With his pace he could've added value to the tour.
    Lets be honest, the bowling figures will make for ugly reading, Australia are going to decimate our attack. This is where Morris comes in with his pace. He can induce a false stroke or an edge due to his pace, even if he's going at 4 an over.
    Steyn, Rabada and Morris can all bowl 140+ constantly which is a must in Australia. The Idea is not to stop Australia from scoring runs or scoring quickly, that's impossible, its akin to fighting a tide with a bucket.
    It's about stopping them racking up 200 partnerships and posting 500+ first innings total. If we can dismiss them around 390-420 even if they score at 5 (which they will), we would have a fighting chance.

    Two of the pitches are guaranteed to be flat, I would sacrifice a spinner (Shamsi) for Morris
    Elgar
    Cook
    Amla
    Faf
    AB (to protect the inexperienced lower order)
    Bavuma
    QdK+
    Morris
    Philander
    Rabada
    Steyn

    The likes of Elgar, AB, Faf would have to role their arms for a combined 10 overs, to relieve the quicks. It's a pity JP is useless with the bat, he could have handled that bulk single-handedly. It just shows how underrated batting all rounders are. Kallis really spoiled us. But Philander would have had to bowl the bulk of the bowling in order for Morris, Rabada and Steyn to operate at 140+.
    Or if we were to be really bold
    Elgar
    Cook
    Amla
    Faf
    AB (to protect the inexperienced lower order)
    QdK+
    Morris
    Philander
    Rabada
    Steyn
    Shamsi

    This would be an aggressive intent, meaning we're going for the win. SA will lose the series any how, 5 bowlers on a flat deck gives you options. Puts the top order under pressure to score big.

    But this is all a speculative rant, no AB, no Morris.
    (AS for the quota, it's flexible and not stringent. I won't explain the details as this post is long already)
    The second XI is what you need on Aussies flat roads.But with no AB, the batting becomes weaker. There is no Morris either.So, it has to be 7 batsmen now and 4 bowlers( not sure if this will work but not much options there).Elgar is the only fifth option along with Faf. So, it makes things worse.

    I think they may go with JP here and sit Bavuma but he is doing well. So, chances are pretty lean for SA this time.

  33. #113
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    Great batting by Joe Root, keeping the trend alive

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    Root is overhyped by many right now. People already thing he is there when he is not. He has potential but he is not a finish product, yet.

  35. #115
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    I will wait till the end of Indian series to make a call on his outside ENG record. He has 6 more test matches this winter in the sub continent to claim better than Smith.


    ...

  36. #116
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    Smith, Williamson, Kohli and Root need to score a hundred every innings for the OP to not consider them overrated.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith, Williamson, Kohli and Root need to score a hundred every innings for the OP to not consider them overrated.
    Don't even worry about it all 4 will make this thread look stupid.

    Statements like Kohli will never catching Amla like above, Smith being an FTB, and othere statements which are highly critical will look stupid when these 4 players careers are over. Lets just be patient for now bro.

  38. #118
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    Moeen Ali is arguably a better player of spin than Root, Smith and Kane. Kohli isn't one of the top three players of pace in his own team. So they're definitely overrated when you see people calling them better than legends like Amla and Younis.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Moeen Ali is arguably a better player of spin than Root, Smith and Kane. Kohli isn't one of the top three players of pace in his own team. So they're definitely overrated when you see people calling them better than legends like Amla and Younis.
    Moeen is a good player of spin but it's too early to make that claim. He got like 5-6 lives in the first innings and was all over the place at the start of his innings.

    Based on this Test, Stokes has looked like a top player of spin, but it's early to say that.

    The Indian series will tell us a lot about the spin debate. Williamson did okay enough but was found wanting against Ashwin. Let's see how Root and Smith do, as well as Moeen and Stokes.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Moeen Ali is arguably a better player of spin than Root, Smith and Kane. Kohli isn't one of the top three players of pace in his own team. So they're definitely overrated when you see people calling them better than legends like Amla and Younis.
    To add to the previous post, Mooen was awful against Pakistan in the UAE, and the other said players did much better than him.

  41. #121
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    Yes forgot to mention Root and Smith also looked much more comfortable in uae than Moen did as well. @Mamoon

  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    To add to the previous post, Mooen was awful against Pakistan in the UAE, and the other said players did much better than him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Moeen is a good player of spin but it's too early to make that claim. He got like 5-6 lives in the first innings and was all over the place at the start of his innings.

    Based on this Test, Stokes has looked like a top player of spin, but it's early to say that.

    The Indian series will tell us a lot about the spin debate. Williamson did okay enough but was found wanting against Ashwin. Let's see how Root and Smith do, as well as Moeen and Stokes.
    You might very well be right. My point was that all four of these guys are far from the finished article. They need to improve quite a bit to end up as the great batsmen that they are touted to be. Kane is probably the most well rounded out of all four, Kohli the one who needs the most improvement.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  43. #123
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    Please keep the discussion cricket related. Thank you.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  44. #124
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    I like Root and Kane the most among them.

    Kane for carrying the weaker NZ team on his own and Root for turning the tides for England in last two years and making a senior player like Cook play second fiddle to him most of the time.

    Smith and Kohli are very good too. These types of threads should be reduced and its pretty OK if they have one average series.

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Smith, Williamson, Kohli and Root need to score a hundred every innings for the OP to not consider them overrated.
    Don't score a hundred but don't get out on 1. Heck even Bravo has played a clutch inning in Asia which is missing from the résumés of someone who is supposed to be England's greatest test batsman.

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Don't even worry about it all 4 will make this thread look stupid.

    Statements like Kohli will never catching Amla like above, Smith being an FTB, and othere statements which are highly critical will look stupid when these 4 players careers are over. Lets just be patient for now bro.
    Waiting since the UAE tour to look stupid. Root has done nothing special so far outside his comfort zone.

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Don't even worry about it all 4 will make this thread look stupid.

    Statements like Kohli will never catching Amla like above, Smith being an FTB, and othere statements which are highly critical will look stupid when these 4 players careers are over. Lets just be patient for now bro.
    Smith is the biggest FTB of this generation. I have proved it with statistics and examples in the past unlike you who is just giving sweeping statements backed by no facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Waiting since the UAE tour to look stupid. Root has done nothing special so far outside his comfort zone.

    These guys are not even in the Peak of there careers and your calling them ovverated

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Smith is the biggest FTB of this generation. I have proved it with statistics and examples in the past unlike you who is just giving sweeping statements backed by no facts.

    Yes an FTB with centuries in England,South Africa,New Zealand, and some decent scores in subcontinent.

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Smith is the biggest FTB of this generation. I have proved it with statistics and examples in the past unlike you who is just giving sweeping statements backed by no facts.
    The Ashwin of batting.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Yes an FTB with centuries in England,South Africa,New Zealand, and some decent scores in subcontinent.
    And these countries cannot have flat tracks? I called him FTB not HTB.

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    These guys are not even in the Peak of there careers and your calling them ovverated
    You do understand that they have played around 40-45 tests already and are supposed to be their team's best batsmen, right? Also, what does hitting the peak have to do with being overrated?

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    You do understand that they have played around 40-45 tests already and are supposed to be their team's best batsmen, right? Also, what does hitting the peak have to do with being overrated?

    Yes because they have been playing for a long time. Batsmen peak is between 28-34. They still have many years left.

    Just because they are there teams best players doesn't mean they can't learn anything or improve further. They will go though lean patches you don't need to call them overrated just because of that.

  54. #134
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    Joe 'overrated' Root, eh?

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    Told you this thread will look stupid.

  56. #136
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    Overrated Root slapping the doubters in some fashion.

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post

    Where is the impact? Where are the match-saving/winning innings?
    Where is OP?

    Joe Root is definitely a class act. Still young, but his is the most prized wicket no matter where England go these days.

  58. #138
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    Calm down. Let's wait and see how much Indian batsmen score. Looks like a flat pitch so far.

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Told you this thread will look stupid.
    So, 5 batsmen have already scored centuries on this pitch with Kohli looking well set and Rahane still to bat.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Overrated Root slapping the doubters in some fashion.
    On a flat pitch....

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    Where is OP?

    Joe Root is definitely a class act. Still young, but his is the most prized wicket no matter where England go these days.
    He is a very good batsman but still overrated.

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    So, 5 batsmen have already scored centuries on this pitch with Kohli looking well set and Rahane still to bat.
    Blame Indian groundsmen for that than. Root can only score on the pitch which is given

  63. #143
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    Score runs on a flat pitch and it's worthless, don't score runs on the pitch and you're over rated, the usual

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Blame Indian groundsmen for that than. Root can only score on the pitch which is given
    I don't use that logic. He played a good inning as you said he can only bat on pitch that is given to him. However, there is nothing special about this performance.

  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Score runs on a flat pitch and it's worthless, don't score runs on the pitch and you're over rated, the usual
    Root is an amazing young batsman. I do not think anybody denied that, calling him England's greatest batsman, etc is ridiculous.

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I don't use that logic. He played a good inning as you said he can only bat on pitch that is given to him. However, there is nothing special about this performance.
    If he didn't score you would call him ovverated so what do you want him to do? If he scores it's a flat pitch if he doesn't he's ovverated.

    Btw smith is making you look stupid as well, only Aussie batter who survived difficult conditions today.

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    Steve smith shutting up another pp expert by being the only Australia batter to survive in difficult conditions.


    Said from day one Smith isn't a FTB

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    On a flat pitch....
    Look, you have occupied a position and now you have to defend it.

    Root scores on day one of the series on a flat pitch = doesn't matter.

    Younis scores in the last innings on a flat pitch after getting owned throughout the series and ensuring that his team played with 10 men for the the first 3 Tests = legend who proved his haters wrong.

    You are setting unusually high standards for these young batsmen. Players like Younis have never scored a hundred in conditions with prodigious lateral movement, but you don't count that against him, do you?

  69. #149
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    As a VK fan, I am a big sucker to these "comparison" threads - but at the end of it, always leaves a bad aftertaste, and makes me a lesser VK fan...



    guy's don't do this please!!! let them do and then let them be (accordingly).

  70. #150
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    Smith and Kohli are definitely not overrated, both are fantastic match winners in Tests and ODI cricket (Kohli in T20's as well).

    Root is overrated at this stage, but that's purely on potential, he will likely join Kohli and Smith once he gets it together and beings converting 50's into daddy tons.

    Kane doesn't deserve to be in the discussion.

    QdK is one who is starting to perform consistently for SA in Tests and is proving to be a game changer for them. I'm interested to see where he bats in the next few years, they may promote him up the order if Amla or AB retire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  71. #151
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    Also NZ being a one man team is true, but that's only in the shorter formats with our only world class player in Guptill having to do the majority of the scoring. We don't have any standout world class players in the Test format. A/R just another team there to make the numbers in that format.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  72. #152
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    Another great bating display by Smith outside his comfort zone. 27 of 95 balls, the type of innings one expects 42 years old Younis to play.

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    Bumping a thread after one failure. When they score you'll either go into hiding or say the pitch was flat LOL.

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Bumping a thread after one failure. When they score you'll either go into hiding or say the pitch was flat LOL.
    When has he scored in Asia? This is like his 3rd recent tour of Asia. Smith is the biggest FTB in the test cricket ATM, though he is very good in ODIs because ODIs have flat tracks.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    When has he scored in Asia? This is like his 3rd recent tour of Asia. Smith is the biggest FTB in the test cricket ATM, though he is very good in ODIs because ODIs have flat tracks.
    5 50+ scores in 15 innings with just 1 100. So, he scores some runs in every 3rd inning in Asia.

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    When has he scored in Asia? This is like his 3rd recent tour of Asia. Smith is the biggest FTB in the test cricket ATM, though he is very good in ODIs because ODIs have flat tracks.
    Absolutely delusional post.

    Smith is the best Test batsman in the world, has performed everywhere and has balanced records home and away. In comparison to ODIs, where he is decent and hardly a standout behind quite a few batsmen are ahead of him.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Another great bating display by Smith outside his comfort zone. 27 of 95 balls, the type of innings one expects 42 years old Younis to play.
    Don't compare Younis the ATG with these kiddies. Let them first play 80 tests, then we'll talk. Younis would have score a clutch hundred on this pitch.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  78. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon786 View Post
    Absolutely delusional post.

    Smith is the best Test batsman in the world, has performed everywhere and has balanced records home and away. In comparison to ODIs, where he is decent and hardly a standout behind quite a few batsmen are ahead of him.
    If I am delusional then name one great inning Smith played in Asia.

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    If I am delusional then name one great inning Smith played in Asia.
    Lol, the below is what you said:

    Smith is the biggest FTB in the test cricket ATM
    Having great innings does not necessarily make you a great batsman, having a great overall record does make you a great batsman.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  80. #160
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    Needless obsession with Younis.

    Kohli, Root, Smith and Williamson are all better than Younis and will be remembered as better batsmen. All four are top quality.

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