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  1. #161
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    I bet this was another "gift" from a Wahhabi royal house, just like the Saudis gave a $1B "gift" a while back.

    All I ever get as gifts are books, pens, the occasional box of chocolates and the like. Then again, I don't have to peddle my sovereignty and watch an alien ideology spread its wings, or 50,000+ corpses, but still.
    70,000+ now


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    game over for Imran Khan?
    Shouldn't it be game over NS for blatantly lying?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Shouldn't it be game over NS for blatantly lying?
    Too many Pakistanis are happy to do the same and put up with poor infrastructure and corruption as long as they get to pay no taxes and do the same. They must be happy with their lot so good luck to them.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Too many Pakistanis are happy to do the same and put up with poor infrastructure and corruption as long as they get to pay no taxes and do the same. They must be happy with their lot so good luck to them.
    Unfortunately that's true for most of us i will never elect a honest leader to rule the country if my own hands are dirty.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  6. #166
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    If NS gets away with this then I am done with PK.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Shouldn't it be game over NS for blatantly lying?
    NS has given the evidence that where the money comes from; i think the case is now firmly in favour of NS

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    NS has given the evidence that where the money comes from; i think the case is now firmly in favour of NS
    No he hasn't, if that was all that was required then you can get get any Tom, Dick or Abdul to sign a form to say they gave the money. The evidence provided has no legal validity until the guy comes to the SC and answers questions on it. Even then he has to show which bank accounts money was transferred from and when. Instead of answering the questions NS he has lied blatantly to both the SC or the NA. As desperate as your are for some good news, NS has dug an even bigger hole and if the SC is honest he will go to jail.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    No he hasn't, if that was all that was required then you can get get any Tom, Dick or Abdul to sign a form to say they gave the money. The evidence provided has no legal validity until the guy comes to the SC and answers questions on it. Even then he has to show which bank accounts money was transferred from and when. Instead of answering the questions NS he has lied blatantly to both the SC or the NA. As desperate as your are for some good news, NS has dug an even bigger hole and if the SC is honest he will go to jail.
    As per my reading Nawaz Sharif's father invested 12 million AED in business of Qatar prince's father. Then Nawaz Sharif's father made his grandson beneficiary of this investment. So Qatar prince paid it back to Nawaz Sharif's son. Correct?

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    As per my reading Nawaz Sharif's father invested 12 million AED in business of Qatar prince's father. Then Nawaz Sharif's father made his grandson beneficiary of this investment. So Qatar prince paid it back to Nawaz Sharif's son. Correct?
    So where are the bank record of all these transactions? Or can you just hand over 12 million AED as if it is pocket change?


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    As per my reading Nawaz Sharif's father invested 12 million AED in business of Qatar prince's father. Then Nawaz Sharif's father made his grandson beneficiary of this investment. So Qatar prince paid it back to Nawaz Sharif's son. Correct?
    Correct if i am wrong but your sympathies are with Nooras but if you cant see through this BS there is no hope for you.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    As per my reading Nawaz Sharif's father invested 12 million AED in business of Qatar prince's father. Then Nawaz Sharif's father made his grandson beneficiary of this investment. So Qatar prince paid it back to Nawaz Sharif's son. Correct?
    and no mention of qatar in all their statements / interviews/ speeches etc before yesterday? interesting...

    From where those 12 million AED came? Nawaz said not a single penny was sent from Pakistan well let's believe their UAE factory story that this money came after selling that factory in 70s but how that factory was setup and from where the money came if it wasn't sent from Pakistan? There was a ban on sending money outside Pakistan in 70s and Bhutto had already nationalized the businesses.

    It's not that simple dear they created more issues by changing statements over and over again and now they are finding it hard to defend. Aik jhoot chupaane ke liay 100 jhoot bolne perte hen...


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    So where are the bank record of all these transactions? Or can you just hand over 12 million AED as if it is pocket change?
    Interestingly this Qatri Prince past isn't that great he was involved in corruption cases and his name was also in Panama leaks


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    So where are the bank record of all these transactions? Or can you just hand over 12 million AED as if it is pocket change?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Correct if i am wrong but your sympathies are with Nooras but if you cant see through this BS there is no hope for you.
    As per my reading those 12 million AED were generated by the sale of business(es) in UAE.

    This happened long time ago; 12 million AED were invested in Qatar in 1980 but we dont know when the business(es) in UAE were sold to generate this amount. There may be records exist for such old transactions but not sure if SC would want to go so back.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    As per my reading those 12 million AED were generated by the sale of business(es) in UAE.

    This happened long time ago; 12 million AED were invested in Qatar in 1980 but we dont know when the business(es) in UAE were sold to generate this amount. There may be records exist for such old transactions but not sure if SC would want to go so back.
    The basic question is if money wasn't sent from Pakistan in UAE how the factory was setup in 70s? And another very basic question why no mentions of Qatar before today?

    And i hope you know about the secret LNG agreement with Qatar by PMLN govt.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  16. #176
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    Dr Mubashir Hassan (Finance Minister of Z Bhutto) is still alive to expose them if they come up with some fake money trail stories from 70s.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    The basic question is if money wasn't sent from Pakistan in UAE how the factory was setup in 70s? And another very basic question why no mentions of Qatar before today?

    And i hope you know about the secret LNG agreement with Qatar by PMLN govt.
    of course some or all money must have gone from Pakistan to UAE; but this happens long time ago and it was done by Nawaz Sharif's father who is deceased and is not on trial. I personally dont think Nawaz Sharif would lie about his dead father.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    of course some or all money must have gone from Pakistan to UAE; but this happens long time ago and it was done by Nawaz Sharif's father who is deceased and is not on trial. I personally dont think Nawaz Sharif would lie about his dead father.
    That's the problem there was a ban on sending money outside Pakistan in 70s it was a illegal so he skipped this question from his story that how UAE factory was setup ins 70s. If he says yes he will admit his father did a crime.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  19. #179
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    All things said and done, what kind of Prime Minister has mills and factories in other countries. How can he go to investors and ask them to invest their money in Pakistan, they can easily retort to him "sir you yourself haven't invested in Pakistan why should we".


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    That's the problem there was a ban on sending money outside Pakistan in 70s it was a illegal so he skipped this question from his story that how UAE factory was setup ins 70s. If he says yes he will admit his father did a crime.
    the 70s or 80s are not in question though;

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    All things said and done, what kind of Prime Minister has mills and factories in other countries. How can he go to investors and ask them to invest their money in Pakistan, they can easily retort to him "sir you yourself haven't invested in Pakistan why should we".
    he has investments in both Pakistan and outside Pakistan; your aregument cannot be used against him

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    the 70s or 80s are not in question though;
    Everything starts from 70s and thats what Nawaz Shareef said in his parliament speech because according to shareefs bhutto made them start from 0 again in 70s after that famous nationalization policy. According to Nawaz Shareef UAE factory was sold and money was used to setup Jeddah mill and after that Jeddah mill was sold these flats were purchased in 2006. So how can we remove the questions about the starting point of the trail? (and guess what they own these flats from 90s according to nawaz's wife statement so they will have to prove they were purchased on 2006 and before that they were on rent)

    It's not a simple case there is a reason NS was running away from 7 months and wanted a retired judge to investigate and give him a free pass


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    the 70s or 80s are not in question though;
    Why not, when the PM uses them as a defence. The PM has been caught red handed and no amount of Qatari princes can save him.

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    game over for Imran Khan?
    It isn't about a single personality or a single political party. It is about Pakistan. If the clown gets a clean chit from the SC, it is a loss for the whole country.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    of course some or all money must have gone from Pakistan to UAE; but this happens long time ago and it was done by Nawaz Sharif's father who is deceased and is not on trial. I personally dont think Nawaz Sharif would lie about his dead father.
    It's amazing how Nawaz Shaif's "Masoom chehcra" is enough to convince people he is clean. Nawaz Sharif's father couldn't have LEGALLY transferred funds to UAE in 70s without state bank's approval (read below what Dr Mubashar Hasan said who was finance minister at that time)
    http://www.dawn.com/news/1259053

    If anything Nawaz Sharif is actually accusing his father of money laundering just to save himself. So Mian Sharif illegally transferred funds to Dubai as per Nawaz and after all the deals with Qatari prince, Mian Sharif gave ALL his money to ONE of his grand sons? SERSIOUSLY?

    There are DOZENS of contradictions in Sharif family's statements on media, parliament and courts, if after all this you still think Sharifs are masoom then NOTHING will convince you.

  26. #186
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    Only those people who are financially benefiting from the current government are defending it. It is all about money; nothing about ideology. What is the PML-N's ideology anyway?


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    It isn't about a single personality or a single political party. It is about Pakistan. If the clown gets a clean chit from the SC, it is a loss for the whole country.
    How difficult is this to understand for some people? I just can't believe after witnessing countlessing contradictory statements, how can they defend such people? Sharifs may get away with chori based on tehcnicalities at the end of the day but their shameless supporters actually blame Imran Khan for not being able to produce LEGAL documents that he (or ANYONE for that matter) can't produce. He can provide evidence based on statements, references to legal cases (in London linked to Al taufeeq) and other circumstantial evidence.

  28. #188
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    To all Nawaz Sharif supporters, if you genuinely think Nawaz is masoom (and not because you have to support everything he does/says), please watch 15th November "Off the Record" (Kashif Abbasi's show) and Nadeem Malik show and then tell us if you still believe everything is fine.

    Forget about court case for now, nothing was proven against Zardari in courts either but can you really support such people who aren't even loyal to their country? Let's even assume properties were all legal, why are these crooks investing billions overseas in properties, businesses, factories and pay taxes there while in Pakistan they paid few thousand Rs most of their lives?
    Last edited by Waseem; 15th November 2016 at 23:40.

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    How difficult is this to understand for some people? I just can't believe after witnessing countlessing contradictory statements, how can they defend such people? Sharifs may get away with chori based on tehcnicalities at the end of the day but their shameless supporters actually blame Imran Khan for not being able to produce LEGAL documents that he (or ANYONE for that matter) can't produce. He can provide evidence based on statements, references to legal cases (in London linked to Al taufeeq) and other circumstantial evidence.
    As the great Hassan Nisar said when asked how come courts are unable to prove corruption of the bigwigs 'Corruption kartay waqat, receiptay (receipts) nahin iskamaal hoti.'


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  30. #190
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    How many of you guys really think Nawaz and his family are innocent?

    (so far most of the pmln supporter i know they think he isn't innocent but chalta he sab khaate hen)


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  31. #191
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    There you go Tehmina Durrani (wife of Shehbaz Shareef) enter in the game with different statements

    After 'Abaji's' death in SA, Shabaz & late Abas sharif, did not inherit any of the 3 Knightsbridge flats as part of thr inheritance

    The Knightsbridge flats clearly NEVER belonged 2 # Shabaz Sharif as part of his inheritance!

    As The Knightsbridge flats were not 'Abaji's ' , they were NOT part of the assets distributed among the 3 brothers.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    The SC wants to show that it is even handed and as i have said they will find a reason to clear the Sharifs or give or muddy verdict but this is not a difficult case, the Sharifs are blatantly lying and it doesnt take a SC justice to know what the correct verdict is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    To all Nawaz Sharif supporters, if you genuinely think Nawaz is masoom (and not because you have to support everything he does/says), please watch 15th November "Off the Record" (Kashif Abbasi's show) and Nadeem Malik show and then tell us if you still believe everything is fine.

    Forget about court case for now, nothing was proven against Zardari in courts either but can you really support such people who aren't even loyal to their country? Let's even assume properties were all legal, why are these crooks investing billions overseas in properties, businesses, factories and pay taxes there while in Pakistan they paid few thousand Rs most of their lives?
    "but he built some roads, and some jangla bus, and gave us izzat when someone died!" translate this into urdu or punjabi and thats why he will always get voted in or get a gullu butt to make someone vote for him. They are ghunday and will do whatever they can to stay in power. as my dad says "masseti tu mullah ni hadta tay.."" fill in the rest..

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    There you go Tehmina Durrani (wife of Shehbaz Shareef) enter in the game with different statements

    After 'Abaji's' death in SA, Shabaz & late Abas sharif, did not inherit any of the 3 Knightsbridge flats as part of thr inheritance

    The Knightsbridge flats clearly NEVER belonged 2 # Shabaz Sharif as part of his inheritance!

    As The Knightsbridge flats were not 'Abaji's ' , they were NOT part of the assets distributed among the 3 brothers.
    What about the Dawn case why suddenly it has gone quiet ? Any news on that ?

  35. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deception View Post
    What about the Dawn case why suddenly it has gone quiet ? Any news on that ?
    I am afraid it looks like a deal is done behind the scene and Pervez Rasheed was made qurbani ka bakra to save the important member of shareef family.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    Even in the western world to prove someone's murder in a lot harder than proving that someone did money laundering.


    Prime example is Al Capone, he committed 40 odd cold blooded murders but could never be convicted of them since there was no direct evidence of it, but he was eventually convicted of income tax evasion and thrown in jail.



    The Sharifs have dug a mammoth hole for themselves and they are still working at it to make it bigger by giving fake letters or changing lawyers. If Pakistani courts are free and impartial they would convict him of corruption and money laundering, even a kid can see it.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  37. #197
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    This "sub khatay hain" mentality is exactly the reason why Pakistan is in the dumps at the moment, you have to draw a line at some point. By convicting these corrupt politicians you will start a precedence of non-corruption and automatically the future leaders will fall in line.

    I say after Nawaz, every politician including Zardari, Imran, Qadri, Asfandyar, Diesel, that Jammati guy etc etc should be investigated and even if 1 ruppee of misappropriation is found they should be disbarred from ever running for office.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Even in the western world to prove someone's murder in a lot harder than proving that someone did money laundering.


    Prime example is Al Capone, he committed 40 odd cold blooded murders but could never be convicted of them since there was no direct evidence of it, but he was eventually convicted of income tax evasion and thrown in jail.



    The Sharifs have dug a mammoth hole for themselves and they are still working at it to make it bigger by giving fake letters or changing lawyers. If Pakistani courts are free and impartial they would convict him of corruption and money laundering, even a kid can see it.
    The US had the machine to go after Al Capone in the FBI, so even when they had no evidence to convict on other offences, they managed to nail him on something else. Where is Pakistan's FBI?

    No country can ever get rid of corruption voluntarily, there has to be the means in place to pursue aggressively those that are cheating the system.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  39. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Everything starts from 70s and thats what Nawaz Shareef said in his parliament speech because according to shareefs bhutto made them start from 0 again in 70s after that famous nationalization policy. According to Nawaz Shareef UAE factory was sold and money was used to setup Jeddah mill and after that Jeddah mill was sold these flats were purchased in 2006. So how can we remove the questions about the starting point of the trail? (and guess what they own these flats from 90s according to nawaz's wife statement so they will have to prove they were purchased on 2006 and before that they were on rent)

    It's not a simple case there is a reason NS was running away from 7 months and wanted a retired judge to investigate and give him a free pass
    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Why not, when the PM uses them as a defence. The PM has been caught red handed and no amount of Qatari princes can save him.
    Even if SC go all the way back to 70s and 80s, the case now revolves around 2 persons:
    1) the deceased father of Nawaz Sharif
    2) the son of Nawaz Sharif

    The case is not about Nawaz Sharif anymore IMO

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    Even if SC go all the way back to 70s and 80s, the case now revolves around 2 persons:
    1) the deceased father of Nawaz Sharif
    2) the son of Nawaz Sharif

    The case is not about Nawaz Sharif anymore IMO
    Let me say it again it's not that simple today Shehbaz Shareef's current wife gave these statements:

    As The Knightsbridge flats were not 'Abaji's' , they were NOT part of the assets distributed among the 3 brothers.

    Abaji here is Mian Shareef (Father of Nawaz/Shehbaz and Abbas Shareef)


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  41. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Let me say it again it's not that simple today Shehbaz Shareef's current wife gave these statements:

    As The Knightsbridge flats were not 'Abaji's' , they were NOT part of the assets distributed among the 3 brothers.

    Abaji here is Mian Shareef (Father of Nawaz/Shehbaz and Abbas Shareef)
    Only if she goes to SC and submit a proof of her statement, then it will be worrying for Nawaz Sharif.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    This "sub khatay hain" mentality is exactly the reason why Pakistan is in the dumps at the moment, you have to draw a line at some point. By convicting these corrupt politicians you will start a precedence of non-corruption and automatically the future leaders will fall in line.

    I say after Nawaz, every politician including Zardari, Imran, Qadri, Asfandyar, Diesel, that Jammati guy etc etc should be investigated and even if 1 ruppee of misappropriation is found they should be disbarred from ever running for office.
    Truer words never spoken

  43. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    Only if she goes to SC and submit a proof of her statement, then it will be worrying for Nawaz Sharif.
    Same is true for the letter of prince. There is no value of his letter in our courts if he don't appear in court and face the questions and even thn there is an issue his whole letter was based on i hear this and i heard that because he was only a few years old when that so called agreement happened between his father and nawaz's father.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Abaji here is Mian Shareef (Father of Nawaz/Shehbaz and Abbas Shareef)
    Its a sad day when you have to explain to the youngsters here who Abba Jee is. Us old-timers grew up with Abba Jee jokes.

    Have you heard the songs "Gone with the Rai Wind," and "Abba Jee, Abba Jee, Tera Munda Rainwind jaye?" They are from the famous band, the Bee (Abba)Gees.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Its a sad day when you have to explain to the youngsters here who Abba Jee is. Us old-timers grew up with Abba Jee jokes.

    Have you heard the songs "Gone with the Rai Wind," and "Abba Jee, Abba Jee, Tera Munda Rainwind jaye?" They are from the famous band, the Bee (Abba)Gees.
    very sad indeed

    I think i remember different lyrics? Aba dekh tera munda jeddah jaaye, Bebe dekh aa dekh terah munda Qatar noo jaaye


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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    very sad indeed

    I think i remember different lyrics? Aba dekh tera munda jeddah jaaye, Bebe dekh aa dekh terah munda Qatar noo jaaye
    Like with all popular folk songs, there are variants of the lyrics.


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  47. #207
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    There's a variant of "Gone with the Rai Wind," called "Gone with the Tind." This was after the brothers' hair transplants.


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  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Like with all popular folk songs, there are variants of the lyrics.
    Remember Mr Faudiay?


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  49. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Remember Mr Faudiay?
    Yes, that is from the 1996 Awaz album "Shola." It was their last album before Assad Ahmed left to form Karavan.

    Mr. Fraudiye's video featured Tariq Amin as the fraudiya, a role that really suited him. It was ahead of its time in many ways: the video was slick for its day, and the lyrics were surprising, coming from the foremost bubblegum pop boy band, rather than one of the more politically-aware acts of those days.


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  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    Yes, that is from the 1996 Awaz album "Shola." It was their last album before Assad Ahmed left to form Karavan.

    Mr. Fraudiye's video featured Tariq Amin as the fraudiya, a role that really suited him. It was ahead of its time in many ways: the video was slick for its day, and the lyrics were surprising, coming from the foremost bubblegum pop boy band, rather than one of the more politically-aware acts of those days.
    Maybe i am wrong but i think after Awaz Haroon wasn't much active while Faakhir always remained in the lime light.


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  51. #211
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    Canadian Nooni

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x529puq_13_news
    Last edited by TalentSpotterPk; 16th November 2016 at 16:20.

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Maybe i am wrong but i think after Awaz Haroon wasn't much active while Faakhir always remained in the lime light.
    Haroon did come out with an album in 2000. You may recall the video shot at Rohtas Fort. Apparently he almost lost a finger wielding one of the swords. Neither Haroon nor Fakhir were in the limelight to the extent they used to be in Awaz. I never cared for either, I was more concerned with Assad having to play with them because he felt there wasn't much of an audience for the sort of music he wanted to do.


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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    Only if she goes to SC and submit a proof of her statement, then it will be worrying for Nawaz Sharif.
    My friend you are still arguing how Mr Fraudia will escape with clever tricks rather than a concerned Pakistani who wants to see justice regardless of the outcome. If Mr Fraudia escapes this clear case of fraud, corruption, money laundering and tax evasion then this Fraudia should release all the unfortunate crooks rotting in the jails for not having Arab princes to bail them out.

  54. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    Even if SC go all the way back to 70s and 80s, the case now revolves around 2 persons:
    1) the deceased father of Nawaz Sharif
    2) the son of Nawaz Sharif

    The case is not about Nawaz Sharif anymore IMO
    Mr Fraudia is such a low life isn't he, blaming his dead father and next generation for all the crimes he committed and then he openly admits "chori karnay waalay jayedaad apnay naam pe nahi rakhtay, bachon k naam pe rakhtay hain"
    Nawaz's own wife said on record that the flats were bought for their kids in 99/00 so he is saying his wife is also a liar.

    Aik fraud chupaanay k liye 100 fraud karnay par rahay hain
    Last edited by Waseem; 16th November 2016 at 21:28.

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    Important day today but i think SC will announce a commission today to investigate it further and thn we will have to wait for months or maybe a year. There was a hint of forming commission in last hearing but well we all know the history of these commissions in Pakistan nothing clear comes out of them.


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    Another twist in the story Mian Shareef wasn't the owner of Gulf Steel ;)

    What is the job of NAB, FBR & FIA etc when SC is putting whole burden of proof on PTI?


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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    That's the problem there was a ban on sending money outside Pakistan in 70s it was a illegal so he skipped this question from his story that how UAE factory was setup ins 70s. If he says yes he will admit his father did a crime.
    That's not a problem in terms of this case. Read the statements. Land was given by government. Funds were obtained via banks in Dubai.

  58. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    All things said and done, what kind of Prime Minister has mills and factories in other countries. How can he go to investors and ask them to invest their money in Pakistan, they can easily retort to him "sir you yourself haven't invested in Pakistan why should we".
    I do not agree with this point of view. Nawaz is also a businessman and not only a politician. As a businessman he can invest where ever he wants. I can agree with you that there may be a conflict of interest in terms of foreign policy however, there is no law prohibiting a prime minister from having businesses in other countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Another twist in the story Mian Shareef wasn't the owner of Gulf Steel ;)

    What is the job of NAB, FBR & FIA etc when SC is putting whole burden of proof on PTI?
    So according to the SC In PK, a political is supposed to become an PRIVATE investigation organisation, whilst the institutions that are paid to this, have no role. And people say the SC is not biased towards the Sharifs and other elitist crooks. The SC has shown itself to be laughing, whatever the outcome of this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    To all Nawaz Sharif supporters, if you genuinely think Nawaz is masoom (and not because you have to support everything he does/says), please watch 15th November "Off the Record" (Kashif Abbasi's show) and Nadeem Malik show and then tell us if you still believe everything is fine.

    Forget about court case for now, nothing was proven against Zardari in courts either but can you really support such people who aren't even loyal to their country? Let's even assume properties were all legal, why are these crooks investing billions overseas in properties, businesses, factories and pay taxes there while in Pakistan they paid few thousand Rs most of their lives?
    Assuming the properties are legal and were bought with money earned legally by the Sharif family. What is the issue with them investing overseas? It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it.

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Another twist in the story Mian Shareef wasn't the owner of Gulf Steel ;)

    What is the job of NAB, FBR & FIA etc when SC is putting whole burden of proof on PTI?
    The burden of proof is on the people making the accusation. This is how courts work all over the world. NAB, FBR and FIA have not made any accusations in supreme court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    The burden of proof is on the people making the accusation. This is how courts work all over the world. NAB, FBR and FIA have not made any accusations in supreme court.
    NAB, FBR and FIA are funded through tax money for what purpose exactly? Please think before making dumb remarks.
    What are the detective and investigator doing in their profession if the whole case has to be solved by a party bringing the case to court?

    Besides in current case PTI is not the accuser for your info. Panama leaks the information about companies owned by PM family. PTI demanded trial/investigation of PM and his family based on documents revealed in panama. It is then automatically a responsibility of institutes like NAB, FBR etc to investigate and dig out the money trail. Since they are not doing their job, court must force them or form special investigation cell to do that. It is not a PTI job to do all investigation and bring the proofs. In any other country the 'baghairat' accused people resign and let investigators proceed against them. It is our corrupt system where even judges are not working honestly on such a high profile case and make jokes of the party bringing in the case. Then there are people like you who do not understand how system work and come running in defense of badshah salamat. This is why I personally do not hope of any good outcome of such cases. As long as majority of nation is sleeping and not using a single cell of their brain then such looters will continue ruling us.

  63. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    The burden of proof is on the people making the accusation. This is how courts work all over the world. NAB, FBR and FIA have not made any accusations in supreme court.
    I love your deliberate naivety,do you think that is because there is no corruption( we are one of the most corrupt countries on this earth) or is it because these organisations are there to protect the corrupt. I am no mystic meg but even a simpleton like me can predict your answer.

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    Let's ignore the fact that SC asked multiple times but Sharifs haven't presented one single proof of money trail in all these hearings except that letter from Mars and another affidavit from Tariq Shafi to prove that Gulf Steel was being run by Mian Shareef and he was the owner although on all papers and sale agreements the name is Tariq Shafi not Mian Sharif.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    Panamagate case: Sharif family continues to spring surprises

    ISLAMABAD: Along with a purported letter of a Qatari prince, the Sharif family is relying on an affidavit by a cousin of the prime minister to prove the trail of money used to buy expensive London properties as the late Mian Muhammad Sharif didn’t directly own any businesses in Dubai, according to documents the ruling family’s legal team submitted in the Supreme Court in the Panamagate case on Tuesday.

    In all business ventures, beginning from the establishment of the Gulf Steel Mills in 1970s, Muhammad Tariq Shafi, a cousin of Premier Nawaz Sharif, has been mentioned as the legal owner in all the official documents, business transactions, and agreements with different departments and parties in Dubai.

    Later in 1980, Shahbaz Sharif, the chief minister of Punjab, represented Shafi in a sale agreement when the latter sold 25% shares in the Ahli Steel Company, which generated 12 million dirhams that the Sharif family claims to have invested in real estate business with the Qatari royal family.

    However, in this sale agreement with Muhammad Abdullah Jayed Ahli, Shahbaz is acting as an ‘authorised representative’ of Shafi, and not as a shareholder. There is no mention of the late Mian Sharif in this final transaction.

    To substantiate their claim, the Sharif family has attached an affidavit of Shafi in which he says that his late uncle had bought the UAE business in his name out of love and affection. “In 1973, I was only 19-year old, and the late Mian Muhammad Sharif, who treated me like his own son, had taken me along with him to Dubai. Out of pure love and affection for me, he gave my name, instead of his own, as partner/shareholder in the aforesaid business,” he writes in the affidavit printed on Rs20 stamp-paper signed on November 12, 2016.

    In the document, Shafi delineates his business history when the Dubai government had accorded him permission to rent a piece of land measuring 1 million square feet for 20 years in 1974. “I signed this agreement, being the ostensible owner to the extent of my late uncle’s share in the company,” he claims. However, no documentary evidence of purported shares of the late Mian Sharif was provided neither in the first official document issued by the Dubai government when had the land had been rented nor in share contact documents of the Gulf Steel Mills, a factory set up on this land.

    According to him, to set up the steel factory finances had been generated form loans obtained from the Bank of Commerce and Credit International in Dubai and no money had been transferred from Pakistan.

    Shafi said that in 1978, he had instructions of the late Mian Sharif to sell 75% shares of the company to Abdallah Kaid Ahli to settle outstanding liabilities with the banks of Dubai. This money was utilised to settle outstanding dues of the BCCI.

    After this he entered into an agreement under which the factory business was to run in the name of Ahli Steel Mills Company with 28,500,000 dirham capital of which Ahli had 75% share and he contributed 25%. “In 1980, the late Mian Sharif decided to disengage himself from his steel business in Dubai, and as desired by him, an agreement was signed between Mohd Abdullah Kayed Ahli and myself on 14-04-1980, whereby remaining 25% share standing in my name but owned by my the late uncle was sold to Mohd Abdullah Kayed Ahli against a total consideration of 12 million dirham,” he writes.

    Legal experts say Shafi would be a key witness in the Panamagate case now after the Qatari Prince Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber alThani whose letter was presented as proof for the money trail. The jury can question if the purported amount of 12 million dirham was mentioned in Mian Sharif’s account and tax details in Pakistan in 1980.

    PM’s children reject claims:

    Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s children have contended before the Supreme Court that documentary evidence presented by the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) in support of its allegations against them were not substantial and concrete.

    As the five-judge larger bench of the apex court – headed by Chief Justice Anwar Zaheer Jamali – is resuming hearing of the Panamagate case, the Sharif family counsel Akram Sheikh has submitted an application on behalf of Maryam Nawaz, Hussain Nawaz and Hassan Nawaz.

    The application states that the controversy as raised in the PTI’s petition relates to the allegation that Maryam is the owner of properties bearing Flats No 16, 16A, 17 and17A situated at Avenfield House, Park Lane, London (the properties) and, consequently, seeks disqualification of Premier Sharif and his son-in-law Captain (retd) Safdar from being members of the National Assembly on the ground that the premier has not declared the properties owned by Maryam for purportedly being dependent of him and spouse of Safdar in his tax returns as well as statement of assets and liabilities filed with the Election Commission of Pakistan.

    Sharif’s children say that answering respondents have already submitted their concise statement and supplemental concise statement (contents whereof are reiterated herein and the same may be read as integral part of this application) refuting said allegations.

    “In so far as the applications for additional documents are concerned, the same does not contain any substantiated, tangible, concrete, and admissible proof in relation to the aforesaid controversy. Even otherwise, the general allegations made and the documents appended with the Applications for Additional Documents are specifically and vehemently denied for being incorrect, erroneous, misconceived and inadmissible.”


    Source: http://tribune.com.pk/story/1233925/...es/?roiugjnmgb


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  66. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Assuming the properties are legal and were bought with money earned legally by the Sharif family. What is the issue with them investing overseas? It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it.
    I will give you benefit of doubt that you haven't been following the case closely otherwise you would NOT assume the flats are legal. We have gone beyond that stage, Sharifs have pretty much lied on every forum and most analysts (even PMLN loyals) are laughing at their logic and approach so out of question but yes they can get away on TECHNICAL grounds.
    Let's assume they are legal (for argument's sake), how do you justify Prime Minister taking his sons and other family members on OFFICIAL trips meeting businessmen in other countries? How do you feel PM asking others to invest in Pakistan but quietly buying properties and businesses abroad himself without even declaring in his assets? This results in tax evasion, money laundering and that hurts the country? Also, awarding contracts to companies and receiving kickbaks and other benefit from them?

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    Someone please correct me i am wrong but i think Erdogan was visiting Punjab to meet Shareef family? not Pakistan?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    I will give you benefit of doubt that you haven't been following the case closely otherwise you would NOT assume the flats are legal. We have gone beyond that stage, Sharifs have pretty much lied on every forum and most analysts (even PMLN loyals) are laughing at their logic and approach so out of question but yes they can get away on TECHNICAL grounds.
    Let's assume they are legal (for argument's sake), how do you justify Prime Minister taking his sons and other family members on OFFICIAL trips meeting businessmen in other countries? How do you feel PM asking others to invest in Pakistan but quietly buying properties and businesses abroad himself without even declaring in his assets? This results in tax evasion, money laundering and that hurts the country? Also, awarding contracts to companies and receiving kickbaks and other benefit from them?
    Bro, you said let's assume the properties are legal. I was just going ahead with your assumption and responding to the statement you made within that context.

    Now, talking about taking his sons and other family members on official trips and what not is an entirely different discussion and on this I agree with your point of view.

    However, I do not agree with the notion that a politician, whoever it may be, has no right to buy property abroad just because he holds a political office in a particular country. Obviously, if this is being done by legal means then there is nothing wrong with it from a legal point of view.

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    PMLN darbari ministers and their media loyalists are spreading an organized propaganda that PTI lawyers are useless and there is absolutely no proof provided which is amazing because judges are actually got so much material that they need time to review everything, they did raise concerns about newspaper articles provided by PTI (by the way 3 PMs have gone home in the past base don news stories).

    On the other hand nawaz Sharif's lawyer has done a great job providing evidence in which a corrupt prince whose own name is in Panama leaks tells stories like "I was informed", " from my understanding" etc. Imagine if this was presented by PTI lawyers, these people would want them hanged inside the courts

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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmz View Post
    NAB, FBR and FIA are funded through tax money for what purpose exactly? Please think before making dumb remarks.
    What are the detective and investigator doing in their profession if the whole case has to be solved by a party bringing the case to court?

    Besides in current case PTI is not the accuser for your info. Panama leaks the information about companies owned by PM family. PTI demanded trial/investigation of PM and his family based on documents revealed in panama. It is then automatically a responsibility of institutes like NAB, FBR etc to investigate and dig out the money trail. Since they are not doing their job, court must force them or form special investigation cell to do that. It is not a PTI job to do all investigation and bring the proofs. In any other country the 'baghairat' accused people resign and let investigators proceed against them. It is our corrupt system where even judges are not working honestly on such a high profile case and make jokes of the party bringing in the case. Then there are people like you who do not understand how system work and come running in defense of badshah salamat. This is why I personally do not hope of any good outcome of such cases. As long as majority of nation is sleeping and not using a single cell of their brain then such looters will continue ruling us.
    I think you're getting a bit too emotional.

    Firstly, my comment was in relation to this particular case that is currently ongoing in the Supreme Court. This case was brought to the Supreme Court by members of PTI and other political parties. In this situation, the onus is on them to provide the proof as they are the accusers.

    As far as your question regarding NAB, FBR and FIA goes. I agree that it is their responsibility to investigate this issue.

    From what I know about this scenario. NAB backed away from the investigation citing that this was beyond their jurisdiction. Also, it is no secret that Nawaz and family own those flats. It is not something that was unknown before the release of these papers. Again, from what I understand the courts have said that it will be up to the commission to engage these institutions to conduct the investigation. This stands separately from the ongoing case.

    Please understand that owning an offshore company is not illegal, so essentially Panama Papers don't point towards an illegal activity. What is illegal is tax evasion or buying property from money sourced from illegal means and this is exactly what NAB should have been investigating. Moreover, NAB and FIA can only initiate an inquiry if the money invested in these companies was transferred from the country through some illegal means and there is no evidence for this.

    Moreover, such an investigation will be no walk in the park as it involves obtaining highly confidential information from several jurisdictions which are not known to be transparent.

    Also, I'm not coming out in support of anyone. If the Sharif's are guilty I'd like to see them punished for their crimes. However, making silly remarks and just demanding random things which don't make any sense at all will not get us anywhere. Whatever I have said so far is for people to understand how things work and in this particular case the fact of the matter is that it is up to the accusers to provide the evidence against their accusations until the court appoints a committee to investigate and that committee engages the likes of NAB and FIA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    I love your deliberate naivety,do you think that is because there is no corruption( we are one of the most corrupt countries on this earth) or is it because these organisations are there to protect the corrupt. I am no mystic meg but even a simpleton like me can predict your answer.
    When did I say that there is no corruption? I do not want to repeat myself again but things work a certain way and just because you wish they worked a different way doesn't mean that is what will happen. We need to be realistic here and understand the process that has been established and unfortunately that is what will be followed whether we like it or not.

    You may think I'm being naive but on the contrary I am stating the facts which apparently you do not like. However, that does not change anything. As much as we'd all like to see the Sharif's thrown behind bars but there is a due process that needs to be followed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    PMLN darbari ministers and their media loyalists are spreading an organized propaganda that PTI lawyers are useless and there is absolutely no proof provided which is amazing because judges are actually got so much material that they need time to review everything, they did raise concerns about newspaper articles provided by PTI (by the way 3 PMs have gone home in the past base don news stories).

    On the other hand nawaz Sharif's lawyer has done a great job providing evidence in which a corrupt prince whose own name is in Panama leaks tells stories like "I was informed", " from my understanding" etc. Imagine if this was presented by PTI lawyers, these people would want them hanged inside the courts
    Help me understand something. How does ones name being in the Panama leaks immediately point towards corruption?

    Can you please tell me what the Panama Papers actually reveal and then let me know where in the world is it illegal to own offshore companies?

    This assumption that everyone mentioned in the leaks is corrupt is beyond silly.

  73. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Someone please correct me i am wrong but i think Erdogan was visiting Punjab to meet Shareef family? not Pakistan?
    You are wrong. He was here for two days. Spent a day in Islamabad and addressed joint session of parliament and then went to Lahore to attend the inaugural ceremony of Iqbal Parks as a chief guest.

  74. #234
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    Case adjourned till Nov 30..


    CJ sahab it is an open and shut case and it became a whole lot easier with that letter from the Qatari prince. I'm fast losing hope of getting any justice and the Sharifs will be let of the hook yet again.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  75. #235
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    Today's proceedings have made me very despondent. Is mulk ka Allah hi hafiz hai. Dil khol ke corruption karo aur phir pakray bhi na jao.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  76. #236
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    So you can lie infront of the the nation and in the NATIONAL ASSEMBLY and that is not enough grounds for disqualification?


    Bhai Allah hi hafiz hai..


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  77. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Firstly, my comment was in relation to this particular case that is currently ongoing in the Supreme Court. This case was brought to the Supreme Court by members of PTI and other political parties. In this situation, the onus is on them to provide the proof as they are the accusers.
    Wrong again! You are not well informed on the roles of different parties and institutions in any case. Take an example of simple case like murder where one party A (accuser and victim) suspect that due to old enmity party B is involved in murder. They obviously can't prove it. They file the case with police and court where former will either directly investigate or on the order of court indirectly investigate the case to dig evidence and proofs. Party A now simply wait for the outcome of investigation and decision based on that investigation. Of course Party A can provide evidences if they have access to them but it is really the job of investigating authority.

    Similar yin case of panama it was crystal clear from day 1 that PM and his family is named in documents containing the information about properties and companies outside pakistan, which are no where declared, especially when one of children (Maryam Nawaz) is living with PM as dependent. This should be default alert the institutions like FBR and NAB (if they were independent and not owned by NS and family) which didn't happen. Even SC could have taken Suo Motu but they remained silent most likely due to loyalty with Sharifs.

    PTI filed the petition in court to start investigate the case and for start provided documents showing properties of PM family. The money trail can't be dig up by PTI as it is not an investigating authority like NAB. It is the job of court to force these institutes or form special investigation cell but until now nothing happened. Proofs of such high profile corruption cases are hard to unearth but can only be done by proper authority otherwise corruption can never be caught if we ask any ordinary person or a political party to investigate and provide proofs.

    I tell you an example of a very rich guy in Germany who was boss of one of the largest organization in Germany. He did stole money (not paying taxes) over the years and kept it in Swiss banks (which are famous for keeping customer information secure). Someone in swiss bank leaked the information that this guy has this much money in his account. Now from this information one can't say the money was illegal and if it was taxed or not. Still the tax authority bought the leaked information and dig up the money trail which resulted in severe punishment for that boss.

    Compare that with pakistan where ordinary people are satisfied with the assumption that panama documents doesn't tell any thing about illegality and that NAB is not in a position to investigate and that another ordinary person should provide proofs. That's pretty shameful mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    As far as your question regarding NAB, FBR and FIA goes. I agree that it is their responsibility to investigate this issue.

    From what I know about this scenario. NAB backed away from the investigation citing that this was beyond their jurisdiction. Also, it is no secret that Nawaz and family own those flats. It is not something that was unknown before the release of these papers. Again, from what I understand the courts have said that it will be up to the commission to engage these institutions to conduct the investigation. This stands separately from the ongoing case.


    Please understand that owning an offshore company is not illegal, so essentially Panama Papers don't point towards an illegal activity. What is illegal is tax evasion or buying property from money sourced from illegal means and this is exactly what NAB should have been investigating. Moreover, NAB and FIA can only initiate an inquiry if the money invested in these companies was transferred from the country through some illegal means and there is no evidence for this.
    NAB and other institutes have full authority to pursue evidences even outside of Pakistan using Interpol and diplomatic channels etc. Other countries have bought documents of panama leak to investigate criminals so Pakistan is part of the same world bound by UN accords. Simply they don't want to investigate because they are sell outs and Judiciary is largely the same.

    Beside court can order these institutes to investigate or even form special cell but they do so only against week political opponents.

    How NAB can assume that money was not transferred out of Pakistan without investigating?

  78. #238
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    Name:  Capture7.jpg
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    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  79. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  80. #240
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    Achaar ke martabaan


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

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