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  1. #241
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    Try this one Syed1


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  2. #242
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    Ganja and his cronies will get away with it again. Story of how things work in Pakistan.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmz View Post
    Wrong again! You are not well informed on the roles of different parties and institutions in any case. Take an example of simple case like murder where one party A (accuser and victim) suspect that due to old enmity party B is involved in murder. They obviously can't prove it. They file the case with police and court where former will either directly investigate or on the order of court indirectly investigate the case to dig evidence and proofs. Party A now simply wait for the outcome of investigation and decision based on that investigation. Of course Party A can provide evidences if they have access to them but it is really the job of investigating authority.
    I'm sorry but this is absurd. You can't just make up a silly example to back up your point of view.

    Articles 117 to 129 of the Qanun-e-Shahdat 1984 deals with burden of proof in criminal cases.

    Article 117 states that: When a person is bound to prove the existence of any fact, it is said that the burden of proof lies on that person.

    According to article 118, the burden of proof in a suit or proceedings lies on that person who would fail if no evidence at all were given on either side.

    Article 119 articulates that the burden of proof as to any particular fact lies on that person who wishes the court to believe in its existence

    So basically, in criminal trials in Pakistan, the prosecution has the burden of proving the accused guilty beyond reasonable doubt because innocence is presumed.

    I hope this is clear to you now.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmz View Post
    Similar yin case of panama it was crystal clear from day 1 that PM and his family is named in documents containing the information about properties and companies outside pakistan, which are no where declared, especially when one of children (Maryam Nawaz) is living with PM as dependent. This should be default alert the institutions like FBR and NAB (if they were independent and not owned by NS and family) which didn't happen. Even SC could have taken Suo Motu but they remained silent most likely due to loyalty with Sharifs.
    There's a few arguments here that I'd like to break up.

    1. On what basis are you saying that Maryam is a dependent of Nawaz? Based on what evidence are you making this assumption or is this just your opinion?

    2. Moving on from the point above. Maryam is not a dependent of Nawaz and not in any political position so why would she have to declare her assets?

    3. I mentioned this earlier as well and I'll say it again. NAB and FIA or any other authority does not have the jurisdiction to investigate Panama Leaks because there is no evidence of corruption in Pakistan. The only way NAB or FIA could initiate an inquiry was if the money invested in these companies was transferred from the country through some illegal way and that does not seem to be the case and if you're following the case you will notice that this is the basis of their defense that not a single rupee was transferred from within Pakistan to buy those properties.

    4. Lastly, owning offshore companies is NOT illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmz View Post
    PTI filed the petition in court to start investigate the case and for start provided documents showing properties of PM family. The money trail can't be dig up by PTI as it is not an investigating authority like NAB. It is the job of court to force these institutes or form special investigation cell but until now nothing happened. Proofs of such high profile corruption cases are hard to unearth but can only be done by proper authority otherwise corruption can never be caught if we ask any ordinary person or a political party to investigate and provide proofs.
    PTI is the prosecution. If they cannot dig up the required evidence they should not have filed a case. It is not the courts job to investigate. The court however has asked for an independent commission to be formed to investigate this matter further and that commission can use the likes of NAB and FIA. I believe the bottleneck on this issue is the TOR's




    Sua cuique voluptas.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFighter View Post
    Ganja and his cronies will get away with it again. Story of how things work in Pakistan.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  5. #245
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    This entire situation is incredibly sad for me. If Nawaz Sharif walks free then you can say goodbye to ever having a corruption free Pakistan, also may signal the end of PTI and again we will have PPP rising as the second party.

    The next decade will see Maryam Safdar and Bilawal Zardari doing musical chairs of the throne.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  6. #246
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    Nixon who happened to be world's strongest man got sent home because of a newspaper article and here our judges are saying newpaper pe pakoray biqtay hain.


    Avay ka ava hi bigra howa yaar. Kya umeed lagani yaar..


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  7. #247
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    Sab maya hai, sab maya hai

    Court will not move against Sharifs if there is a modicum of excuse. And PTI are no investigation agency.

    Imran is now himself going to London as Jason Bourne in his effort to bring something concrete in evidence.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  8. #248
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    good article by Ansar Abbasi

    https://jang.com.pk/print/216018-ans...-badal-den-gay

    Imran Khan has effectively works against the interests of those Pakistani people who want to see Pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah. Imran Khan could have used his pressure to implement election reforms and making NAB, FBI etc corruption and political influence free but he is more interested in revenge/ruling the country than fixing the country .
    Last edited by srh; 17th November 2016 at 17:50.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    good article by Ansar Abbasi

    https://jang.com.pk/print/216018-ans...-badal-den-gay

    Imran Khan has effectively works against the interests of those Pakistani people who want to see Pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah. Imran Khan could have used his pressure to implement election reforms and making NAB, FBI etc corruption and political influence free but he is more interested in revenge/ruling the country than fixing the country .
    So it is Imran's responsibility to ask for these things and those people who actually have the power to make these changes cannot do it themselves?


    Rest in peace, logic.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    Sab maya hai, sab maya hai

    Court will not move against Sharifs if there is a modicum of excuse. And PTI are no investigation agency.

    Imran is now himself going to London as Jason Bourne in his effort to bring something concrete in evidence.
    What is your opinion now? i remember you also wanted (like most of us) to go in courts instead of wasting energy on roads ;)


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  11. #251
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    Someone posted these pics from today's Joint Parliamentary session. Parliamentarians walking to COAS Gen Raheel Sharif to shake hands with him or have a few words. Yahan inki jamhuryat derail nae hoti? biche biche ja rah hen ;) (look at poor achakzai reaction)









    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  12. #252
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    Guru bhai who is that Sikh with the orange turban?


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Guru bhai who is that Sikh with the orange turban?
    Looks like a guest only maybe representing the sikh community of the country on Turk president visit. But there are Sikh officers in our army and one Sikh is in Rangers doing duty on Wagah border all the time.



    Another Sikh was a minister in KP govt but he was murdered last year.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    What is your opinion now? i remember you also wanted (like most of us) to go in courts instead of wasting energy on roads ;)
    No, i never pinned my hopes on courts. I was merely against the lock down plan and strategy where plan was unrealistic and unattainable. The lock down never made any sense when common people here don't have any inclination towards agitation.
    The best option was to keep hitting them politically, when legally the chances of win looked bleak due to lack of an investigative mechanism to gather concrete evidence.

    Court will hesitate hundred times before challenging the might of Sharifs. Commission if appointed might also fail to accomplish anything because of lack of cooperation from agencies.

    I hope Imran plays the dual role of Jason Bourne and Sherlock Holmes astonishingly well and brings something from London, some sort of documents/evidence related to London flats.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    No, i never pinned my hopes on courts. I was merely against the lock down plan and strategy where plan was unrealistic and unattainable. The lock down never made any sense when common people here don't have any inclination towards agitation.
    The best option was to keep hitting them politically, when legally the chances of win looked bleak due to lack of an investigative mechanism to gather concrete evidence.

    Court will hesitate hundred times before challenging the might of Sharifs. Commission if appointed might also fail to accomplish anything because of lack of cooperation from agencies.

    I hope Imran plays the dual role of Jason Bourne and Sherlock Holmes astonishingly well and brings something from London, some sort of documents/evidence related to London flats.
    Imran should have kept pressure to make FBI, NAB, etc. corruption free and no political influence. That would have helped Pakistan immensely. Instead he is expecting SC to do the job of FBI, NAB, etc.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    No, i never pinned my hopes on courts. I was merely against the lock down plan and strategy where plan was unrealistic and unattainable. The lock down never made any sense when common people here don't have any inclination towards agitation.
    The best option was to keep hitting them politically, when legally the chances of win looked bleak due to lack of an investigative mechanism to gather concrete evidence.

    Court will hesitate hundred times before challenging the might of Sharifs. Commission if appointed might also fail to accomplish anything because of lack of cooperation from agencies.

    I hope Imran plays the dual role of Jason Bourne and Sherlock Holmes astonishingly well and brings something from London, some sort of documents/evidence related to London flats.
    I never had expectations from our courts going by the history and to me it looks like even if NS admit his corruption our courts still find a way to prove him innocent Interestingly when even PTI supporters were bashing Hamid Khan today Aitzaz and Klasra had different views and came in support of him and they were right when courts are not in the mood to decide thn changing lawyers isn't going to help PTI


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    Imran should have kept pressure to make FBI, NAB, etc. corruption free and no political influence. That would have helped Pakistan immensely. Instead he is expecting SC to do the job of FBI, NAB, etc.
    Pressure on this govt wasn't going to work and they don't even talk to opposition until you come on roads to teach them a lesson there are many examples in their last 3.5 years of govt but thn again people complain when PTI comes on roads to put pressure because for PMLN parliament isn't even important and they manage media really well by throwing money at channels with those ads and sponsoring anchors so it's always a lose-lose situation for PTI and win-win for govt.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    Imran should have kept pressure to make FBI, NAB, etc. corruption free and no political influence. That would have helped Pakistan immensely. Instead he is expecting SC to do the job of FBI, NAB, etc.
    We call it FIA in Pakistan. This logic defies any logic. What will be the yardstick to measure the transparency and non political operations of these institution. One party will demand and the other will say we have already done that. Then what will you do?


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  19. #259
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    @WebGuru @srh

    These so called N league loyalists columnists are quite good at twisting facts and reality.

    Why would Nawaz/Shah would want a transparent and efficient NAB, FIA when they are themselves facing serious allegations?

    And why won't these rulers themselves make FIA, NAB efficient if they have nothing to hide and are here to truly serve?

    And why would they make these institutions exemplary, under pressure from IK when they could themselves get caught? As i said earlier if they don't have anything to hide and they mean real well being of this nation then what is stopping them from making it better?

    But again common sense has nothing to do with N league supporters. It is about narrow self interest.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Pressure on this govt wasn't going to work and they don't even talk to opposition until you come on roads to teach them a lesson there are many examples in their last 3.5 years of govt but thn again people complain when PTI comes on roads to put pressure because for PMLN parliament isn't even important and they manage media really well by throwing money at channels with those ads and sponsoring anchors so it's always a lose-lose situation for PTI and win-win for govt.
    I sometimes get frustrated with IK's naivety. Other than few sane advisers like Asad Umar, Haroon-ur-Rasheed the bunch is only here to join the bandwagon. Of course, IK also has to share the blame for his own illogical decisions.
    He is making the N league look like indefatigable.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    I sometimes get frustrated with IK's naivety. Other than few sane advisers like Asad Umar, Haroon-ur-Rasheed the bunch is only here to join the bandwagon. Of course, IK also has to share the blame for his own illogical decisions.
    He is making the N league look like indefatigable.
    The reality is that we live in a mafia state and nothing IK or anybody else honest can do or say, will change that. Its painful for those of us who love PK, but i feel defeated and feel its time that i and many others like me have to accept the ground realities and move on. The Sharifs have won and we have lost.

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    I sometimes get frustrated with IK's naivety. Other than few sane advisers like Asad Umar, Haroon-ur-Rasheed the bunch is only here to join the bandwagon. Of course, IK also has to share the blame for his own illogical decisions.
    He is making the N league look like indefatigable.
    Although they are still in touch but i don't think he listens to Haroon-ur-Rasheed anymore after 2013. (Haroon-ur-Rasheed's Murshad from Gujjar Khan Professor Ahmed Rafique was also a supporter of IK but thn they had some issues and things changed). Most leaders in PTI are only good at taking selfies with IK specially the Khi leadership. I wish IK had more people like Ch Sarwar and Asad Umar.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  23. #263
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    Maybe Aitzaz Ehsan knows the abc of law better thn all of us after spending decades in SC? Let's see him explaining the case, burden of proof and the difference in this case because it's an iniqury not a trial.



    @waqar goraya @srh @Bewal Express @Syed1 @zimmz @uberkoen @Waseem


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Although they are still in touch but i don't think he listens to Haroon-ur-Rasheed anymore after 2013. (Haroon-ur-Rasheed's Murshad from Gujjar Khan Professor Ahmed Rafique was also a supporter of IK but thn they had some issues and things changed). Most leaders in PTI are only good at taking selfies with IK specially the Khi leadership. I wish IK had more people like Ch Sarwar and Asad Umar.
    Karachi leadership Arif Alvi talks sense but Imran Ismael, Faisal Wada , Ali zaidi all.......


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Maybe Aitzaz Ehsan knows the abc of law better thn all of us after spending decades in SC? Let's see him explaining the case, burden of proof and the difference in this case because it's an iniqury not a trial.



    @waqar goraya @srh @Bewal Express @Syed1 @zimmz @uberkoen @Waseem
    The line of questioning of the Sc is quite big hint at their thought processes of the judges. It doesn't matter what Aitezaz or anyone says, the SC is corrupt.

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    Karachi leadership Arif Alvi talks sense but Imran Ismael, Faisal Wada , Ali zaidi all.......
    Haleem Adil Sheikh also looks active he was president of PMLQ sindh and recently joined PTI. Alvi is good at talking and can be a very good Legislator but i don't think he is very effective on ground. Sherzaman and Samar are the 2 MPAs under the NA seat of Alvi and they are doing good work in the constituentcy to save the face of Alvi. They even have a website lol visit www.na250.com


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Haleem Adil Sheikh also looks active he was president of PMLQ sindh and recently joined PTI. Alvi is good at talking and can be a very good Legislator but i don't think he is very effective on ground. Sherzaman and Samar are the 2 MPAs under the NA seat of Alvi and they are doing good work in the constituentcy to save the face of Alvi. They even have a website lol visit www.na250.com
    Nabil Gabol joined PTI recently, I believe. He is a good addition to the PTI Karachi team. They need to get Jibran Nasir on their side he will surely bring plenty of votes with himself.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  28. #268
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    Aitzaz Ahsan sounded very excited and passionate. Some where in his heart there is a wish that he wants to thunder inside SC.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Nabil Gabol joined PTI recently, I believe. He is a good addition to the PTI Karachi team. They need to get Jibran Nasir on their side he will surely bring plenty of votes with himself.
    Gabol was only supporting IK on this ehtesaad movement he is still not in PTI. I can't see Jibran Nasir joining any major political party anytime soon because of his views.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    Aitzaz Ahsan sounded very excited and passionate. Some where in his heart there is a wish that he wants to thunder inside SC.
    He and Hamid Khan had these issues started after lawyers movement so it was interesting to see him supporting Hamid here instead of bashing while everyone else including SC lawyers today were on Hamid Khan and PTI bashing bandwagon

    Hamid is a big name but tbh is a dull lawyer no passion at all.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  31. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    He and Hamid Khan had these issues started after lawyers movement so it was interesting to see him supporting Hamid here instead of bashing while everyone else including SC lawyers today were on Hamid Khan and PTI bashing bandwagon

    Hamid is a big name but tbh is a dull lawyer no passion at all.
    Sheikh Rashid made an interesting point, basically when somebody is hired for free his passion won't be in it. Same situation with any occupation.

    PTI should have hired a team of professional lawyers instead of going with party personnel.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  32. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Sheikh Rashid made an interesting point, basically when somebody is hired for free his passion won't be in it. Same situation with any occupation.

    PTI should have hired a team of professional lawyers instead of going with party personnel.
    That's true but during JC2015 there was enough of evidence and PTI hired one of the biggest name in our court history PPP co-founder and father of our constitution Abdul Hafeez Pirzada and still lost the case based on technicalities with comments from SC like yes there was rigging but it wasn't systematic.

    Klasra made a very interesting comment today when everyone was bashing Hamid and PTI Klasra said "Lets not blame lawyers. When there is "willingness" not to believe, then no lawyer can win case in any court of the world leave SC alone."


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  33. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    He and Hamid Khan had these issues started after lawyers movement so it was interesting to see him supporting Hamid here instead of bashing while everyone else including SC lawyers today were on Hamid Khan and PTI bashing bandwagon

    Hamid is a big name but tbh is a dull lawyer no passion at all.
    Hamid Khan has knowledge and wisdom but he is soft spoken and talks very little. I hear him sometimes on TV. The anchor asks a question in 10 lines and he simply replies in one line. Usually, lawyers are very talkative but not him.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  34. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    Hamid Khan has knowledge and wisdom but he is soft spoken and talks very little. I hear him sometimes on TV. The anchor asks a question in 10 lines and he simply replies in one line. Usually, lawyers are very talkative but not him.
    Yea he is one of those people with huge knowledge but little talk. Some of his work is also taught at LLB/LLM level. Interestingly he is the founding member of CLM law firm and his partner at CLM Salman Butt was the lawyer of Nawaz in this case before Akram Sheikh replaced him ;)


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  35. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    good article by Ansar Abbasi

    https://jang.com.pk/print/216018-ans...-badal-den-gay

    Imran Khan has effectively works against the interests of those Pakistani people who want to see Pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah. Imran Khan could have used his pressure to implement election reforms and making NAB, FBI etc corruption and political influence free but he is more interested in revenge/ruling the country than fixing the country .
    Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajioon, Logic sahab ka aaj wehshiana qatal hotay dekh k buhat dukh hua

    Don't take it personal bro, i was really out of words to respond to Ansar Abbasi's wisdom
    Last edited by Waseem; 17th November 2016 at 21:18.

  36. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    I'm sorry but this is absurd. You can't just make up a silly example to back up your point of view.

    Articles 117 to 129 of the Qanun-e-Shahdat 1984 deals with burden of proof in criminal cases.

    Article 117 states that: When a person is bound to prove the existence of any fact, it is said that the burden of proof lies on that person.

    According to article 118, the burden of proof in a suit or proceedings lies on that person who would fail if no evidence at all were given on either side.

    Article 119 articulates that the burden of proof as to any particular fact lies on that person who wishes the court to believe in its existence

    So basically, in criminal trials in Pakistan, the prosecution has the burden of proving the accused guilty beyond reasonable doubt because innocence is presumed.

    I hope this is clear to you now.
    This text book has lot more information to you then you pasted here. The above quoted text simply says that the prosecution has to present the proofs. The text didn't say who will dig the proof. This is what you are missing. The proofs are investigated by authorities and then handed over to the prosecution party for presentation in court, or these investigating authorities become party to the case and aids prosecution. Court can order the investigation or form a special cell to do so. The victim or accuser can for sure bring in proofs what is possible in his capability. So in such a high profile case PTI is not the one to dig proofs. It's the job of FIA, NAB and FBR. If even now you don't get the point then God help you. The example from germany was spot on but too much for you to comprehend.

    Beside a very important point you are missing (see the clip posted above where Aitzaz the lawyer explains). The case is inquiry and not trial where the accuser just had to prove the ownership of properties of PM family. The ball then goes into the court of shareef, the burdon of proof then moves to them i.e. to prove that the property is legal and the money used there is legal. Judges have to force them to prove the legality of the properties.

    Unfortunately judges are not independent in Pakistan so we won't see such professional ethics from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    There's a few arguments here that I'd like to break up.

    1. On what basis are you saying that Maryam is a dependent of Nawaz? Based on what evidence are you making this assumption or is this just your opinion?


    2. Moving on from the point above. Maryam is not a dependent of Nawaz and not in any political position so why would she have to declare her assets?
    She stated that she lives with her father. Even if she lied and she is not dependent on her father then her husband also didn't declared her properties abroad. She herself don't have to declared the assets but her father or husband have to. On the other hand her father in one of his tax returns in 2011 listed a property and marked the dependent column which means property was owned by his dependent (who else it could be other than Maryam Nawaz?, since technically Wife is not considered dependent but is mentioned in seperate sections)




    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    3. I mentioned this earlier as well and I'll say it again. NAB and FIA or any other authority does not have the jurisdiction to investigate Panama Leaks because there is no evidence of corruption in Pakistan. The only way NAB or FIA could initiate an inquiry was if the money invested in these companies was transferred from the country through some illegal way and that does not seem to be the case and if you're following the case you will notice that this is the basis of their defense that not a single rupee was transferred from within Pakistan to buy those properties.
    You are clueless about the function of these institutes. They don't act after some thing has been proved. They act to investigate and find evidences. How do they know there is no evidence of corruption in pakistan without even investigating the case?

  37. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajioon, Logic sahab ka aaj wehshiana qatal hotay dekh k buhat dukh hua

    Don't take it personal bro, i was really out of words to respond to Ansar Abbasi's wisdom
    Exactly what I said RIP logic.


    So lets not ask the people actually in the government to make the changes but ask the opposition parties to demand those changes.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

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    The SC looks confused to me. One day, they make it look NS is guilty while another day, they try to downplay all the evidence against the PM. It seems to me they are finding a flaw to acquit NS.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

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    The fact the NS lied at the NA regarding the ownership of the flats should be enough to have him disqualified.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Exactly what I said RIP logic.


    So lets not ask the people actually in the government to make the changes but ask the opposition parties to demand those changes.
    I am actually gobsmacked with this logic. If Imran Khan protests to put pressure on institutions, he is blamed for insulting the institutions and if he lets them do what they want then he isn't doing enough to FORCE them to work, where is GOVERNMENT that controls all these institutions? Recent example, as soon as Supreme Court mentioned NAB during the case, NAB chairman disappeared to China overnight.

    It comes back to this, all these institutions are controlled, abused and destroyed by the government and that is the entire problem, if these are doing what they are meant to do in most countries then Imran Khan won't have to protest, do the investigation work?

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    Looks like Sharif's will get away from this and their vote bank wont be affected because majority of his voters don't even know what are the Panama case and Offshore companies.


    Rlaely it deson’t mttaer waht I wirte you’ll sitll uanrtednsnd it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Nixon who happened to be world's strongest man got sent home because of a newspaper article and here our judges are saying newpaper pe pakoray biqtay hain.


    Avay ka ava hi bigra howa yaar. Kya umeed lagani yaar..
    It wasn't actually the newspaper articles that resulted in Nixon's downfall. It was the actual recordings.

    The news story was published in 1972 and it wasn't until 74 that the tapes were released (Nixon was still in office and the court ordered for the full release of the tapes). It was one tape in particular that resulted in him losing political support and facing impeachment which resulted in his resignation.

    So, no news paper articles did not result in the downfall of Nixon it was actual unquestionable evidence of wrong doing that did so.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Runner Up View Post
    Looks like Sharif's will get away from this and their vote bank wont be affected because majority of his voters don't even know what are the Panama case and Offshore companies.
    Bhai, you seem like an educated person. Well, at least I hope you are. Can you tell me where in the world is it considered illegal to own offshore companies? Also, can you help me find Nawaz Sharif's name in the Panama papers? All this hue and cry is over nothing.

    PTI had nothing on the Sharif's from the very beginning. Not to say that they are clean and not corrupt but the whole case was stupid to begin with because there is absolutely no evidence that those properties were bought through money earned illegally and instead of getting all overworked and emotional, Imran should have picked his battles wisely.




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    Nawaz is corrupt. It is an undeniable fact.

    However, we have to abide by whatever decision the SC takes. As citizen of Pakistan, Imran Khan also has to abide by it, and also accept the decision even if it is not in his favor. He is not above the law.

    If he doesn't, then he should stop being a hypocrite. The hypocrisy is that PTI MPs are still taking salaries from the NA and still enjoying the perks, even though he calls it a fake assembly. No PTI Junooni has any convincing defense to this.

    If it is fake, why not boycott completely?

    Also, he needs to realize that he is no revolutionary leader and foreign leaders couldn't care less about him.

    Erdogan has already put him in his place and showed him his aukaat by refusing to meet him one-on-one, leaving Imran red-faced.

    Why doesn't he realize that things don't work that way.

    Imran will not declare an open revolution because the umpire will not like it and will thus, continue his hypocritical ways.

    However, I hope he sees the err of his ways and instead of going for another flop dharna (if the SC doesn't pass judgment in his favor), he will honor the constitution for a change and be a responsible, democratic leader and stops alienating himself from the rest of the country.

    He must understand that he is no revolutionary leader.

    It is such a shame that Pervez Khattak was not present to meet Erdogan, when leaders of other provinces were there. Really paints a negative picture of our province.

    He doesn't even attend CPEC meetings and then complains about deprivation. This self-alienation will take PTI nowhere, and they have achieved nothing on those grounds so far anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Nawaz is corrupt. It is an undeniable fact.

    However, we have to abide by whatever decision the SC takes. As citizen of Pakistan, Imran Khan also has to abide by it, and also accept the decision even if it is not in his favor. He is not above the law.

    If he doesn't, then he should stop being a hypocrite. The hypocrisy is that PTI MPs are still taking salaries from the NA and still enjoying the perks, even though he calls it a fake assembly. No PTI Junooni has any convincing defense to this.

    If it is fake, why not boycott completely?

    Also, he needs to realize that he is no revolutionary leader and foreign leaders couldn't care less about him.

    Erdogan has already put him in his place and showed him his aukaat by refusing to meet him one-on-one, leaving Imran red-faced.

    Why doesn't he realize that things don't work that way.

    Imran will not declare an open revolution because the umpire will not like it and will thus, continue his hypocritical ways.

    However, I hope he sees the err of his ways and instead of going for another flop dharna (if the SC doesn't pass judgment in his favor), he will honor the constitution for a change and be a responsible, democratic leader and stops alienating himself from the rest of the country.

    He must understand that he is no revolutionary leader.

    It is such a shame that Pervez Khattak was not present to meet Erdogan, when leaders of other provinces were there. Really paints a negative picture of our province.

    He doesn't even attend CPEC meetings and then complains about deprivation. This self-alienation will take PTI nowhere, and they have achieved nothing on those grounds so far anyway.
    This is right on point. In general, PTI and PTI followers believe that things should work the way they want them to work and then don't understand why things must follow a certain process and don't end up going their way.

    A simple example being the current case. The questions some PTI followers are asking honestly leaves me astonished. Why is the burden of proof on the accuser and not the defendant? Why does the court not consider newspaper clippings and photocopies of various documents to be sufficient evidence of wrong doing? The thinking and the logic of these people is beyond me and honestly, it is scary to think what would happen if someone with this mindset comes into power.

    There is not an inkling of doubt that Nawaz is corrupt but he's also shrewd and has covered up his tracks in such a way that the institutions and courts will find it extremely difficult to convict him. PTI wallah's logic is that everyone knows he's corrupt so let's just put him behind bars. In the case of Nawaz I'd be fine with that but can you imagine the precedent that would set? People need to understand these things.




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    ISLAMABAD: When the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) legal team on Thursday apparently failed in pleading its case against the Sharif family, a judge pointed towards two documents present in its own petition that implicate the premier’s daughter Mariam Safdar as ’ultimate beneficial owner’ of offshore companies as revealed by the Panama Papers.

    A huge collection of classified documents leaked from Panama-based firm, Mossack Fonseca, in April this year, the Panama Papers revealed that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s three scions owned offshore companies in international tax havens.

    The Sharif family has been trying to exculpate Maryam from the leaks saga by claiming before a Supreme Court larger bench – hearing a slew of petitions in connection with the scandal – that she was only ‘trustee’ of luxury properties in London that were purchased through two offshore companies.

    Visibly perturbed over lengthy arguments of the PTI’s lead counsel Hamid Khan, Justice Azmat Saeed – a member of five-judge bench with expertise in money laundering matters – remarked that the PTI has a good case but it is not being able to present it convincingly.

    “You have a good case but you are doing politics on it,” Justice Saeed remarked. Later, he drew attention of the PTI counsel to important documents attached on pages 37 and 38 of the PTI’s petition.

    Interestingly, in these documents Maryam has been declared direct owner of two offshore companies – Nescoll Limited and Neilson Enterprises Limited.

    The documents are purported ‘confidential’ communication between British Virgin Islands’s Financial Investigation Agency and Mossack Fonseca’s Money Laundering Reporting Officer J Nizbeth Maduro. In the said communication, the watchdog on June 12, 2012 sought details and ‘ultimate beneficial owners’ of both these offshore companies.

    In two separate letters, addressed to the Financial Investigation Agency’s then director Errol Georg, Mossack Fonseca’s reporting officer on June 22, 2012 replied; “The beneficial owner of the company is Mariam Safdar.”

    The Reporting Officer Maduro provided the watchdog the same details for both companies with Mariam as owner. Her address in the documents is mentioned as Saroor Palace, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

    “Two shares have been issued in the company. A copy of Register of Shareholders is attached for ease of reference,” Maduro wrote. “We do not have information of any company/(ies) connected to/associated with the company. The company has a loan account with Deuche Bank Geneva,” he added.

    The legal experts say that these two letters, which have been pointed out by SC’s judge, may weaken the stance of Sharif family that Hussain Nawaz is beneficial owner of the luxury flats in London and Mariam is only a trustee.

    The PTI in its documentary evidences has also submitted one of the certificates – dated February 7, 2006 and bearing Mariam’s signs – which show her as a ‘sole shareholder’ of Nescoll limited – one of the two companies that allegedly owned the Sharif family’s properties in London as revealed in the Panama Papers.

    “The undersigned Maryam Safdar, being the sole shareholder of the company, hereby confirms the adoption of the following resolutions. It was noted LZ Nominees Limited was reappointed as a nominee director of the company,” one of the certificates said.

    Bad day for PTI

    During the proceedings of Panamgate case on Thursday, the judges came down hard on PTI’s lawyers for failing to come up with a strong argument in favour of their petition seeking disqualification of the prime minister.

    “Today is a bad day for the PTI team,” a PTI legal team member admitted.

    When PTI’s lead counsel Hamid Khan took more than one hour in reading three different speeches of the PM, Justice Azmat asked him to focus on the issue in question.

    Instead of reading long speeches of the PM, you should examine each document presented by the respondents and then confront those documents before the bench, the judge said.

    He also observed that the PTI has to make the case and then let the respondents reply.

    “You are doing politics as this is not relevant whether they paid taxes or not. You should have let them (the defence legal team) reply after brief arguments of five minutes.”

    The bench also observed that it would confine itself to the matter related to the acquisition of foreign properties by the Sharif family and not scrutinise the premier’s entire life. “We are not going to open the entire life of the PM to scrutinise it as this issue is not before us,” Justice Asif Saeed Khosa remarked.

    The Chief Justice Anwar Zaheer Jamali, who heads the bench, also remarked that in criminal cases, the benefit of doubt goes to the accused. “On the basis of so-called PM’s contrary statements on foreign properties, how can we uphold that London flats were purchased through black money,” he further said.

    The CJ also observed that after hearing the petitioner’s counsel for one hour, they have come to the conclusion that a detailed inquiry – to be led by an SC judge, who will have the assistance of local and international investigative agencies – is required to probe this matter. “At least I am at a loss,” he added.

    The CJ also observed that there is no mention in the respondents’ statements regarding the total worth of London flats. Earlier, Justice Ijaz ul Ahsan remarked that if it was proved that the PM made misstatements or told a lie before the public or in parliament then there would be consequences.

    When Naeem Bukhari, another PTI attorney, referred to the Zafar Ali Shah case judgment, which had validated the military coup of former president Pervez Musharraf, the bench told him that these are submissions of then Attorney General for Pakistan and not the court’s verdict against the Sharif family regarding the alleged corruption.

    Earlier, one of the petitioners, Tariq Asad, requested the bench that at least three-four political figures should also be probed along with the PM. The CJ asked him what was wrong if the court started the accountability process from the ruler. “We have to begin somewhere,” Justice Khosa also remarked.

    Later, the hearing of the case was adjourned till November 30.


    http://tribune.com.pk/story/1235108/...rs-hint-bench/
    @zimmz @WebGuru

    I don't know if you've read this article or not. Judges seem to be doing a good job and actually helping PTI lawyers out. Judges have clearly stated where the burden of proof lies but have also said they would make use of various institutions to provide further proof.

    Overall, PTI needs to quickly get its act together but there is a case to be fought and it's not all over yet.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    Why does the court not consider newspaper clippings and photocopies of various documents to be sufficient evidence of wrong doing? The thinking and the logic of these people is beyond me and honestly, it is scary to think what would happen if someone with this mindset comes into power.

    There is not an inkling of doubt that Nawaz is corrupt but he's also shrewd and has covered up his tracks in such a way that the institutions and courts will find it extremely difficult to convict him. PTI wallah's logic is that everyone knows he's corrupt so let's just put him behind bars. In the case of Nawaz I'd be fine with that but can you imagine the precedent that would set? People need to understand these things.
    Precedent is already there in our SC history let's not even go back to 80s/90s or in other country court because even recently during CJ Iftikhar era there were cases when newspaper clips and videos clips were used. Remember planted interview of Malik Riaz with Lucman was used in court? Another case one was LNG where Klasra story from newspaper was used by SC against PPP govt and deal was canceled. There are examples so it's not like it's happening for the first time. I am surprised people are ignoring all these cases or maybe they think SC under Iftikhar Ch was a fake SC?


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    As far as i am concerned the SC has decided to back the corrupt over people fighting corruption, ah well, that is life.

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    Hamid Khan is no more the lawyer in this case after the massive media campaign against him yesterday he decided to to quit so PTI can select another lawyer instead of him.

    I can fight the case of panama but can't fight media, so i quit the case but i am & i will be PTI : Hamid Khan

    Respect for Hamid Khan


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Hamid Khan is no more the lawyer in this case after the massive media campaign against him yesterday he decided to to quit so PTI can select another lawyer instead of him.

    I can fight the case of panama but can't fight media, so i quit the case but i am & i will be PTI : Hamid Khan

    Respect for Hamid Khan
    Does this hamper the court proceedings?


    I listened Aitezaz Ahsan and Babar Awan (two esteemed lawyers) and both of them seemed to be backing Hamid Khan. However, the media was presenting yesterday as a loss to PTI and perhaps NS was about to go scot free.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Does this hamper the court proceedings?


    I listened Aitezaz Ahsan and Babar Awan (two esteemed lawyers) and both of them seemed to be backing Hamid Khan. However, the media was presenting yesterday as a loss to PTI and perhaps NS was about to go scot free.
    This comment by Rauf Klasra is a perfect answer:

    When everyone was bashing Hamid and PTI yesterday Klasra said "Lets not blame lawyers. When there is "willingness" not to believe, then no lawyer can win case in any court of the world leave SC alone."

    I guess you got the idea?

    Govt is also spending millions on propaganda in media and after every hearing it looks like PMLN already won the case if you see most of the channel specially Geo.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    the case against NS was not strong to begin with; remember his name was not in Panama leaks; after the letter from Qatar prince the whole case has collapsed since there is no way to involve NS in this anymore; the letter proves it was between father of NS and father of Qatar prince and son of NS and son of Qatar prince; no NS

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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    the case against NS was not strong to begin with; remember his name was not in Panama leaks; after the letter from Qatar prince the whole case has collapsed since there is no way to involve NS in this anymore; the letter proves it was between father of NS and father of Qatar prince and son of NS and son of Qatar prince; no NS
    The only thing the letter proved is that there are plenty of cretins willing to believe that it has even an ounce of credibility.

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    Babar Awan name is not even confirmed yet as new lawyer of PTI in this case and govt sponsored Geo news already started the propaganda against him. It looks like govt will make sure they win this case through media pressure just need to through a few billions.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    So a very competent lawyer Hamid Khan insulted and humiliated by PTI, poor soul.

    The SC judges should know that if they decide that Kaptaan does not have enough evidence to help them convict Nawaz, the will suffer the degree of insult and humiliation which they will remember for the rest of their lives.

    In fact it has already started. According to reports on social media, Justice Amir Hani had a 35 minutes meeting with Nihal Hashmi, Senator PML-N during which the judge gave assurances that 'things will go well'.

  56. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    So a very competent lawyer Hamid Khan insulted and humiliated by PTI, poor soul.

    The SC judges should know that if they decide that Kaptaan does not have enough evidence to help them convict Nawaz, the will suffer the degree of insult and humiliation which they will remember for the rest of their lives.

    In fact it has already started. According to reports on social media, Justice Amir Hani had a 35 minutes meeting with Nihal Hashmi, Senator PML-N during which the judge gave assurances that 'things will go well'.
    He was on different tv channels a few hours ago and mentioned that this is his own decision because of the way media portrayed him yesterday whole day he can't win the case on media. His partner at CLM law firm Salman Butt another senior SC lawyer was the lawyer of PM in this case and was changed just a week ago but i don't think that means PMLN insulted and humiliated him? Now both CLM law firm lawyers are out of this case.

    Maybe Aitzaz, ex CJ Iftikhar, Babar Awaz etc all don't know anything about our law and courts because their point of view is totally different when it comes to this case and burden of proof.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    If he hadnt resigned some hypocrites would have then claimed that IK didn't have the courage to sack his friend and that cost him the case. You cant beat hypocrites!
    BTW
    I have read in some places that One of the Nooras is very close to one of the SC judges, is this true?
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 20th November 2016 at 16:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    So a very competent lawyer Hamid Khan insulted and humiliated by PTI, poor soul.

    The SC judges should know that if they decide that Kaptaan does not have enough evidence to help them convict Nawaz, the will suffer the degree of insult and humiliation which they will remember for the rest of their lives.

    In fact it has already started. According to reports on social media, Justice Amir Hani had a 35 minutes meeting with Nihal Hashmi, Senator PML-N during which the judge gave assurances that 'things will go well'.
    There was organised propaganda against him from media (lead by Geo), PMLN social media team would run campaign against him and EVERYONE was syaing that Hamid Khan is the only reason PTI is losing the case. Yes PTI supporters did fall for that when every channel was criticising him but don't make it sound like he left because of PTI supporters. His remarks are "I can handle the Panama case but can't handle the media criticism". There was indication that Babar Awan may take the case now and there is already campaign against him.

    Most jahils in the media can't understand the fact that PTI is not an investigative agency and proofs that they are referring can only be produced by non functioning and compromised institutions otherwise there are more than enough proof provided by PTI to build a strong case as one of the SC judges admitted "THERE IS A STRONG CASE" by PTI but they did also criticised newnspaper references (which btw are not as useless as a judge said).

    mark this, whoever is the lawyer will suffer similar way from media, their whole case lies on these tactics. They purposely released photos of PMLN leader Nihal Hashmi meeting one of the SC judges involved in Panama case, now PTI supporters will criticise that as this should NOT be allowed and judges will react to criticism and may get angry. I just can't believe how some sane people can support these gang of thugs who stoop to any level.

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    For those telling us about burden of proof. This is a suo motu case and i hope you know how SC handles suo motu cases?


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  60. #300
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    Izzat aur shaurat siruf aur siruf Allah ke haath mein hoti hai, paisay aur kursi se izzat nahi milti humaray hukmaran ko jis din yeh baat samaj ajai os din yeh mulk badal jaye.


    Raheel Sharif visited GC University Lahore yesterday and the kind of reception he got was wonderful to watch. Aisa reception tou Nawaz ko Raiwind mein bhi na milta ho.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  61. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    For those telling us about burden of proof. This is a suo motu case and i hope you know how SC handles suo motu cases?
    It is not a suo motu case. Please stop making things up bro. If it were a Suo Motu case then PTI wouldn't be involved at all.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

  62. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Izzat aur shaurat siruf aur siruf Allah ke haath mein hoti hai, paisay aur kursi se izzat nahi milti humaray hukmaran ko jis din yeh baat samaj ajai os din yeh mulk badal jaye.


    Raheel Sharif visited GC University Lahore yesterday and the kind of reception he got was wonderful to watch. Aisa reception tou Nawaz ko Raiwind mein bhi na milta ho.
    You're absolutely right bro.

    Imran should take this into consideration and save whatever little respect he has left.




    Sua cuique voluptas.

  63. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    It is not a suo motu case. Please stop making things up bro. If it were a Suo Motu case then PTI wouldn't be involved at all.
    I also thought this isn't a suo moto that's why i never discussed it before in this thread and even thn CJ Iftikhar and Aitzaz had different views on this case because it's not a trial. Today i saw this news about a new amendment coming up i am not a student of law and constitution can you explain this to me? Thanks

    Govt eyes right to appeal SC decree

    ISLAMABAD: The federal government on Friday introduced a constitutional amendment bill in the National Assembly, proposing a right to appeal against an order of the Supreme Court passed in suo motu cases.

    A larger bench of the Supreme Court is currently hearing the Panamagate case under this jurisdiction. The Supreme Court is empowered to take suo motu action on any matter of public interest under the same jurisdiction.


    http://tribune.com.pk/story/1236078/...eal-sc-decree/


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  64. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberkoen View Post
    You're absolutely right bro.

    Imran should take this into consideration and save whatever little respect he has left.
    Atleast he has some respect. Nawaz is only respected by patwari nooras and corrupt folks.

  65. #305
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    Nations fail because their institutions are weak and complacent. Nawaz will go scot-free and get re-elected soon.

  66. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    This is a Suo Moto Notice ?
    I am also not sure Tribune posted this news today about this in upcoming 24th constitutional amendment and there it was mentioned.

    ISLAMABAD: The federal government on Friday introduced a constitutional amendment bill in the National Assembly, proposing a right to appeal against an order of the Supreme Court passed in suo motu cases.

    A larger bench of the Supreme Court is currently hearing the Panamagate case under this jurisdiction. The Supreme Court is empowered to take suo motu action on any matter of public interest under the same jurisdiction.
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/1236078/...eal-sc-decree/

    Aitzaz was express news before 2 hours where host asked the question see the reply of Aitzaz from 30:35 in this video

    Last edited by WebGuru; 19th November 2016 at 16:56.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  67. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Atleast he has some respect. Nawaz is only respected by patwari nooras and corrupt folks.
    All people that have never done an honest days work in their lives.

  68. #308
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    KARACHI: The federal government has issued a number of special permits to hunt the internationally protected migratory bird houbara bustard in Punjab during the hunting season 2016-17, according to sources.

    They said that Qatari prince Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al-Thani is among those in whose name the permits have been issued.

    According to the sources, this is not the first time that a special hunting permit has been issued to the Qatari prince.

    The prince has lately been in the news following the submission of his letter in the Supreme Court in connection with the Panamagate case.

    In his letter he has described his father’s business relations with the family of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his involvement in the London apartments that are at the centre of the Panama Papers controversy.

    Qatari prince among those given special permits
    The houbara bustard is not only protected under various international conventions and agreements signed by the country but its hunting is also banned under the local wildlife protection laws. Pakistanis are not allowed to hunt it but it is much sought after by Arab hunters.

    According to the sources, the areas allocated for hunting to Prince Hamad are Punjab’s Bhakkar and Jhang districts. He has been allowed to hunt down 100 birds during a 10-day period.

    The permit was sent to the prince through Qatar’s diplomatic mission in Islamabad.

    The letter sent to the Qatari embassy (DCP (P&I)-19/6/2016-17 Allocation) says: “The ministry of foreign affairs of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan... has the honour to state that the Government of Pakistan has conveyed its recommendation to the authorities concerned in the province for the allocation of following areas — Bhakkar and Jhang districts in Punjab province — to Prince Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al-Thani, former prime minister of Qatar, for hunting of houbara bustard for the season 2016-17.”

    The code of conduct for hunting — sent along with the foreign ministry’s letter — said the three-month hunting season began on Nov 1 and would conclude on Jan 31, 2017.

    The sources said that copies of the hunting permit had been sent to various government officers, including Umeed Khalid, the conservator for wildlife, Climate Change Division, Building No 144, F-8 Markaz, Islamabad, for information and appropriate action.

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1297470/qat...oubara-bustard



    Badshah Salamat rewarding his friend for that fake letter


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  69. #309
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    Forget all arguments who tihnks it makes sense that Mian Sharif would give 4 flats to ONE GRANDSON when he has 3 sons and 14 grand sons/daughters.

    Seriously if Sharif gets away based on some loopholes then massive shame and everyone would be entitled to corrution, money laundering, tax evasion.

  70. #310
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    The fact that the PM lied on the floor of the National Assembly regarding his flats in London should be enough for his disqualification.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  71. #311
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    From comments from some people on here and elsewhere, there is no doubt that a large percentage of the population are happy with corruption and corrupt people and are more critical of the anti corrupt because they have voted for these people and dont want it pointed out to them what idiots they have been. For me this is a seminal moment for PK, because if the SC legitimise corruption then the fight against corruption is over and people are free to do as they please like they have done for the last 70 years.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 20th November 2016 at 16:41.

  72. #312
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    Remember this news from last year? @Bewal Express @Syed1

    KP govt fines Qatari prince Rs80,000 for illegal falcon hunting

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1168654



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  73. #313
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    Pti could not get the services of Top Lawyer Aitzaz Ahsan because he is a PPP Politician.


    Babar Awan (sidelined PPlian) isn't a tagrha lawyer.


    In which areas of Law Abid Hasan Manto specialises ?


    Is Farogh Naseem member of MQM ?


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  74. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Pti could not get the services of Top Lawyer Aitzaz Ahsan because he is a PPP Politician.


    Babar Awan (sidelined PPlian) isn't a tagrha lawyer.


    In which areas of Law Abid Hasan Manto specialises ?


    Is Farogh Naseem member of MQM ?
    Farugh was sidelined by MQM because Altaf wasn't happy with him. He was also spokesman of Pakistan Bar and was sidelined 2 weeks ago for his views on this case Asma Jahangir group wasn't happy with him. Babar is good at speaking but they say he isn't technically very strong Hamid was opposite of Babar. Aitzaz is a combination of both.

    I think PTI should contact senior like SM Zafar fr advise in this case.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  75. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Farugh was sidelined by MQM because Altaf wasn't happy with him. He was also spokesman of Pakistan Bar and was sidelined 2 weeks ago for his views on this case Asma Jahangir group wasn't happy with him. Babar is good at speaking but they say he isn't technically very strong Hamid was opposite of Babar. Aitzaz is a combination of both.

    I think PTI should contact senior like SM Zafar fr advise in this case.

    So PTI should have opted for Farugh Naseem or SM Zafar instead of Babar Awan.


    Geo has already started propaganda by showing a fight between Imran & Babar in 2008 Capital Talk show.


    Since Naeem Bukhari has personal issues with Nawaz Sharif hence PTI won't appoint him as lead lawyer.


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  76. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    So PTI should have opted for Farugh Naseem or SM Zafar instead of Babar Awan.


    Geo has already started propaganda by showing a fight between Imran & Babar in 2008 Capital Talk show.


    Since Naeem Bukhari has personal issues with Nawaz Sharif hence PTI won't appoint him as lead lawyer.
    In politics there are no permanent friends or foes.. I remember during the Mush era Sheikh Rashid once insulted Immy on his face in Capital Talk saying "ap ki tou koi party hi nahi, one man show hai"


    And now look where each stands.


    Demons run when a good man goes to war
    GO NAWAZ GO!

  77. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    In politics there are no permanent friends or foes.. I remember during the Mush era Sheikh Rashid once insulted Immy on his face in Capital Talk saying "ap ki tou koi party hi nahi, one man show hai"


    And now look where each stands.

    Yes I remember that but Babar Awan is not ij good books of Supreme Court since last 8 years. His License was under threat aswell. Furthermore he has lost the case of Usman Dar recently.


    So they should have opted for a better lawyer.


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  78. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    So PTI should have opted for Farugh Naseem or SM Zafar instead of Babar Awan.


    Geo has already started propaganda by showing a fight between Imran & Babar in 2008 Capital Talk show.


    Since Naeem Bukhari has personal issues with Nawaz Sharif hence PTI won't appoint him as lead lawyer.
    I don't think SM Zafar is active he is 85 at the moment so he can only give some mashweras his son Syed Ali Zafar is also a good lawyer but he is from Asma Jahangir group he was the president of supreme bar until last month when hamid khan group won. Aitzaz was a good choice but sadly PPP isn't going to allow him. In the end the choice were Farugh and Babar for PTI so PTI selected Babar


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  79. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Yes I remember that but Babar Awan is not ij good books of Supreme Court since last 8 years. His License was under threat aswell. Furthermore he has lost the case of Usman Dar recently.


    So they should have opted for a better lawyer.
    His licenses was suspended by CJ Iftikhar during PPP govt.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  80. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    His licenses was suspended by CJ Iftikhar during PPP govt.
    Yes you are right.


    This video has further saddened me as a Pakistani.

    Dissappointing.





    Unfortunately 85 % Pakistanis cannot understand this documentary.


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

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