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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    White people have a history of centuries of violence. I have nothing against white people & my fellow Americans, i have friends, roommates and coworkers that are white.
    And Brown people are wholesome right ? Try finding a race that is more progressive than the whites.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    All people have a history of centuries of violence. Tribal warfare was alive and well long before any white person came onto the scene. How long can you go blaming someone else for your actions.
    White people have the most blood on their hands and the biggest difference is that nonwhites have more empathy and humility while white people tend to be a lot more arrogant about their past transgressions. Lool @ "blaming white people" for our actions, it's white people right now who are blaming blacks, hispanics and muslims for the failures in this country right now. Can't get a job with your useless art degree blame an arab or a korean, can't find a blue collar job cause of your work ethic, blame a hispanic or an indian, can't find any kind of work cause of your drug addiction, body tattoos and cause you decide to drop out of high school, you blame any minority. Not all White people are like that or not even most, blaming minorities or "liberals" for your personal failures has become a common theme over here. I'm only talking about where I live, idk too much about other countries.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thivagar View Post
    And Brown people are wholesome right ? Try finding a race that is more progressive than the whites.

    We're talking about the rise of Trump & white supremacy, stop acting like an uncle tom


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    White people have the most blood on their hands and the biggest difference is that nonwhites have more empathy and humility while white people tend to be a lot more arrogant about their past transgressions. Lool @ "blaming white people" for our actions, it's white people right now who are blaming blacks, hispanics and muslims for the failures in this country right now. Can't get a job with your useless art degree blame an arab or a korean, can't find a blue collar job cause of your work ethic, blame a hispanic or an indian, can't find any kind of work cause of your drug addiction, body tattoos and cause you decide to drop out of high school, you blame any minority. Not all White people are like that or not even most, blaming minorities or "liberals" for your personal failures has become a common theme over here. I'm only talking about where I live, idk too much about other countries.
    To me this just sounds like a racist rant against white people.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    To me this just sounds like a racist rant against white people.
    Racism is about power bud, nonwhites don't have power here except for one half-back dude who was President for 8 years.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Racism is about power bud, nonwhites don't have power here except for one half-back dude who was President for 8 years.
    Weird. Don't jews pretty much control the US lobby and Indians earn the most money?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracket View Post
    Weird. Don't jews pretty much control the US lobby and Indians earn the most money?
    Indians and other Asians like Koreans, Pakistanis, Chinese etc don't have any power despite being wealthy minorities. Jews do have power but they can considered whites at times.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  8. #168
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    Anyway. Trump won the electoral college quite comfortably. It's quite clear that outside of California / New York / DC, the majority of the American people across the majority of states just did not want Hillary as their leader. So they voted for Trump instead.

    25% of Hillary's electoral college number just came from California. If they really want to secede and become independent over there, let them. 55 electoral college votes (>10% of the nationwide total) being confined to an uber Democratic stronghold & liberal paradise is a total stitch-up anyway. That weighting is a disgrace and should be reduced.

    I digress. So with regards to Trump. We can now either keep spending our time complaining over the Internet, or we can accept the very unambiguous message that has been sent by the American electorate, and work with the guy as best we can to get the most favourable possible deal out of this for the UK. If the very powerful and influential man named Donald Trump is potentially going to be a strong friend to us, I for one would not be rejecting his proposed alliance.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    White people have the most blood on their hands and the biggest difference is that nonwhites have more empathy and humility while white people tend to be a lot more arrogant about their past transgressions. Lool @ "blaming white people" for our actions, it's white people right now who are blaming blacks, hispanics and muslims for the failures in this country right now. Can't get a job with your useless art degree blame an arab or a korean, can't find a blue collar job cause of your work ethic, blame a hispanic or an indian, can't find any kind of work cause of your drug addiction, body tattoos and cause you decide to drop out of high school, you blame any minority. Not all White people are like that or not even most, blaming minorities or "liberals" for your personal failures has become a common theme over here. I'm only talking about where I live, idk too much about other countries.
    This is non-sense, more like racism against whites... White people also has done more good than anybody else as well, why not mention that? - lot of progress in science, humanity, art and culture also comes from whites, what that tells you??

    White as a race has not only done good or bad. You just cannot label all whites one way or the other, there is not something wrong with their genes that has cause that bad stuff That's why this is call racism, because you are painting too broad of a brush for entire race

    BTW: Conservatives (which way more in Pakistani or Muslim cultures) have whole lot more racism and hate. You even kill a guy who leaves religion or even point out facts about religous books and prophets, there are laws which are highly anti free speech or freedom of religion and nobody dare to talk about repealing them. Lets not go in details accomplishment of browns, yellows and blacks(if you want to use genetic labels, which I personally don't like)

    You can point out that conservatives all over the world (regardless of race, religion, country), not just now but historically are more racist than liberals, now that could be a point
    Last edited by yasir; 11th November 2016 at 03:53.


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Anyway. Trump won the electoral college quite comfortably. It's quite clear that outside of California / New York / DC, the majority of the American people across the majority of states just did not want Hillary as their leader. So they voted for Trump instead.

    25% of Hillary's electoral college number just came from California. If they really want to secede and become independent over there, let them. 55 electoral college votes (>10% of the nationwide total) being confined to an uber Democratic stronghold & liberal paradise is a total stitch-up anyway. That weighting is a disgrace and should be reduced.

    I digress. So with regards to Trump. We can now either keep spending our time complaining over the Internet, or we can accept the very unambiguous message that has been sent by the American electorate, and work with the guy as best we can to get the most favourable possible deal out of this for the UK. If the very powerful and influential man named Donald Trump is potentially going to be a strong friend to us, I for one would not be rejecting his proposed alliance.
    The states that voted for Trump are the ones that are overwhelmingly white or rustbelt states that suffered from outsourcing jobs, a lot of the rustbelt voters were Sanders supporters who turned to Trump. If you're gonna downplay the largest state California cause of it's electoral votes, well here's another fact: 87% of Trump's vote came from white people, more than two-thirds of the other racial groups didn't vote for him, neither did the majority of millennials.So yeah "the people" chose him but it's just that one racial group is a very large majority.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    The states that voted for Trump are the ones that are overwhelmingly white or rustbelt states that suffered from outsourcing jobs, a lot of the rustbelt voters were Sanders supporters who turned to Trump. If you're gonna downplay the largest state California cause of it's electoral votes, well here's another fact: 87% of Trump's vote came from white people, more than two-thirds of the other racial groups didn't vote for him, neither did the majority of millennials.So yeah "the people" chose him but it's just that one racial group is a very large majority.
    You are making up facts here, 83% of whites voted for Trump you say, considering less than 60% of eligible voters cast their votes how do you know how many voted for Trump. Out of the 12% blacks that can vote how many did?. Considering by your claim only 13% non whites voted for Trump and they only make up 36% of the population and half of them didn't vote that leaves 18% that did vote which means that more than half voted for Trump.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    The states that voted for Trump are the ones that are overwhelmingly white or rustbelt states that suffered from outsourcing jobs, a lot of the rustbelt voters were Sanders supporters who turned to Trump. If you're gonna downplay the largest state California cause of it's electoral votes, well here's another fact: 87% of Trump's vote came from white people, more than two-thirds of the other racial groups didn't vote for him, neither did the majority of millennials.So yeah "the people" chose him but it's just that one racial group is a very large majority.
    You are again shooting from hip, where you are getting your numbers from??

    You cannot be more wrong, I can give you example of Philly city, vote count was (550K H to 110K T- 80% to 20% ratio). Philly is not 80% non-whites, far from it. Division is not based on black and white, its liberal and conservative divide... The white male 50+ vote heavily Rep not just Trump, it has always being the case, where as 30 and below whites vote heavily democrats again not just now but for long time... It has lot to do which the social, culture and political values those age group hold even within same race...

    I can give you another number that can shed a light why FL was lost (its lost by small margin less then 200K votes)... Latinos who are naturalized citizen gave around 90/10 ratio against Trump, where as US born Latinos gave 40/60 against Trump, Trump end up carrying more Latino votes than Ramney, that has helped him a lot to win key state of FL... How can you blame that on whites???

    At the end main issue was Hillary as weak Candidate with lot of baggage, she got 6M less votes (60M Vs 66M) than Obama 2012 and 10M (69M) less vote than Obama of 2008. Trump got less vote than Ramney(59.8M Vs 61M), even less than Macain(59.9M) she way under perform because Dems were not Enthu about her. She was loosing all those state to Bernnie few months ago, Even with all those racial slurs, Bernnie would have won this easily , may be 330+ like Obama. Only defense we had for Hillary that other guy is bad, that's not a strong message. Lets put the blame where it lies, it was Dems establishment that was badly exposed, party has to be and will be rebooted.


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Anyway. Trump won the electoral college quite comfortably. It's quite clear that outside of California / New York / DC, the majority of the American people across the majority of states just did not want Hillary as their leader. So they voted for Trump instead.

    25% of Hillary's electoral college number just came from California. If they really want to secede and become independent over there, let them. 55 electoral college votes (>10% of the nationwide total) being confined to an uber Democratic stronghold & liberal paradise is a total stitch-up anyway. That weighting is a disgrace and should be reduced.

    I digress. So with regards to Trump. We can now either keep spending our time complaining over the Internet, or we can accept the very unambiguous message that has been sent by the American electorate, and work with the guy as best we can to get the most favourable possible deal out of this for the UK. If the very powerful and influential man named Donald Trump is potentially going to be a strong friend to us, I for one would not be rejecting his proposed alliance.

    I am not following your argument, CA has 10% electoral votes and 13% population(39M out of 309M), why should they get less representation? - Where as other states have way more representation than them, they probably have the least representation. Electoral collage has helped kept strong voice of smaller states in federation, but that does not mean we should further devalue majority centers.

    The reality is even in red states, population centers (big town suburbs, city centers) are very blue. Its the socialist nature of electoral collage that has helped Rep win presidency both now and in 2000, the very thing they despise


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  14. #174
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    democrats are sore losers; they are now protesting Trump's election win

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You are making up facts here, 83% of whites voted for Trump you say, considering less than 60% of eligible voters cast their votes how do you know how many voted for Trump. Out of the 12% blacks that can vote how many did?. Considering by your claim only 13% non whites voted for Trump and they only make up 36% of the population and half of them didn't vote that leaves 18% that did vote which means that more than half voted for Trump.
    I didn't say that 87% of whites voted for him, 87% of whites made up his vote not 87% of them voting for him. Samething with the other races, you're quoting their actual populations and confusing with the proportion of votes he got. This is just basic statistics


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFighter View Post
    I wonder if there is a case of criminal negligence, criminal misrepresentation by all the news channels, news papers. Almost all the statistics and pre polls had Clinton leading Trump by 5-8% especially in the last 2 months. It is natural for one party to relax and feel confident and even over confident of Victory.

    This misrepresentation had severe implications for Clinton's campaigning strategy. I hope there are some massive lawsuits against these newspapers and news channels because this is just criminal fraud in my view.
    Media was so biased against Trump that I start feeling sympathetic towards Trump although I dont agree with him on lot of issues; I suspect lot of people feel the same way and vote Trump in anger.

  17. #177
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    It's ridiculous to see our media giving too much attention to the election in USA. Did the USA ever give the same type of coverage/attention to our election?

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Sher View Post
    It's ridiculous to see our media giving too much attention to the election in USA. Did the USA ever give the same type of coverage/attention to our election?
    It's about impact of election. How much impact a Pakistani election will have in USA?


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  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Sher View Post
    It's ridiculous to see our media giving too much attention to the election in USA. Did the USA ever give the same type of coverage/attention to our election?
    This is a silly argument. The US elections are periodic and important - you want to know whether your country will be in the (military/economic) firing line or not.

    The Pakistani elections (the number of which I can count off one hand) pale in comparison and is only important domestically and regionally.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    This is a silly argument. The US elections are periodic and important - you want to know whether your country will be in the (military/economic) firing line or not.

    The Pakistani elections (the number of which I can count off one hand) pale in comparison and is only important domestically and regionally.
    This is what you think! I don't think like this. For me, USA election means nothing, better to get one's house in order first, as Imran Khan had tweeted.

  21. #181
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    Trump has 3 of his kids on Presidential transition team. This is going to be fun, now America has its own Nawaz Sharif. Both of them are businessmen and both have their kids in Politics.

  22. #182
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqEddipbpkw

    All of the left and never Trumpers look so stupid now..Obama included.

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Trump has 3 of his kids on Presidential transition team. This is going to be fun, now America has its own Nawaz Sharif. Both of them are businessmen and both have their kids in Politics.
    surely even u can admit that this is going to be a fun 4 years no matter whether he is good or bad

  24. #184
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    Donald Trump confirms he ‘won’t take one penny’ of massive £320,000 President’s salary - amazing stuff. the presidency is off with a bang imo and egg on the face of guys like obama and bush who did accept their salaries.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ident-s-salary

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by anuk View Post
    Donald Trump confirms he ‘won’t take one penny’ of massive £320,000 President’s salary - amazing stuff. the presidency is off with a bang imo and egg on the face of guys like obama and bush who did accept their salaries.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ident-s-salary
    So you're saying you'd work for free?

  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericBrand View Post
    So you're saying you'd work for free?
    no but i'm not as great of a man as trump apparently is.

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thivagar View Post
    Everyone talked about female empowerment, in support of Muslims, black lives, the latinos, gays and the environment. But, no one addressed the majority America, the middle class Whites. Imagine a sub continent candidate talking about all the liberal values and immigrants but fails to talk about the majority ? That is what happened. The candidates were so "progressive" that they forgot about the average joe. The average who's life has come down crashing. It is funny how Pakistanis and Indians talk about US bombing civilians but everyone turns a blind eye when a issue regarding their military abuse is brought up. Majority of the White Americans that voted for Trump didn't vote for him because he was racist, they voted for him because they were sick and tired of fake politicians and they finally have someone that is protecting them. The racial and religious abuse is a confirmation of Trump's confirmation that he is there to save the "Real Americans".
    err actually youll find they voted for him because they wanted america to be great again. Now what do they eman by that? simple they want their perceived privilege back. Majority of blue collar voters voted for hilary. Those already earning 65 thousand or more voted for trump. They are already in a priviledged position and wanted to reinforce it through their racism. Its simply undeniable.

  28. #188
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    The Long Road to White House.

    1980-2016

    36 years




    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  29. #189
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    You don't burn calories by jumping to conclusions.

  30. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdul View Post

  31. #191
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    Trump's victory is saddening, but not surprising : Bernie Sanders

    Millions of Americans registered a protest vote on Tuesday, expressing their fierce opposition to an economic and political system that puts wealthy and corporate interests over their own. I strongly supported Hillary Clinton, campaigned hard on her behalf, and believed she was the right choice on Election Day. But Donald J. Trump won the White House because his campaign rhetoric successfully tapped into a very real and justified anger, an anger that many traditional Democrats feel.

    I am saddened, but not surprised, by the outcome. It is no shock to me that millions of people who voted for Mr. Trump did so because they are sick and tired of the economic, political and media status quo.

    Working families watch as politicians get campaign financial support from billionaires and corporate interests — and then ignore the needs of ordinary Americans. Over the last 30 years, too many Americans were sold out by their corporate bosses. They work longer hours for lower wages as they see decent paying jobs go to China, Mexico or some other low-wage country. They are tired of having chief executives make 300 times what they do, while 52 percent of all new income goes to the top 1 percent. Many of their once beautiful rural towns have depopulated, their downtown stores are shuttered, and their kids are leaving home because there are no jobs — all while corporations suck the wealth out of their communities and stuff them into offshore accounts.

    Working Americans can’t afford decent, quality child care for their children. They can’t send their kids to college, and they have nothing in the bank as they head into retirement. In many parts of the country they can’t find affordable housing, and they find the cost of health insurance much too high. Too many families exist in despair as drugs, alcohol and suicide cut life short for a growing number of people.

    President-elect Trump is right: The American people want change. But what kind of change will he be offering them? Will he have the courage to stand up to the most powerful people in this country who are responsible for the economic pain that so many working families feel, or will he turn the anger of the majority against minorities, immigrants, the poor and the helpless?

    Will he have the courage to stand up to Wall Street, work to break up the “too big to fail” financial institutions and demand that big banks invest in small businesses and create jobs in rural America and inner cities? Or, will he appoint another Wall Street banker to run the Treasury Department and continue business as usual? Will he, as he promised during the campaign, really take on the pharmaceutical industry and lower the price of prescription drugs?

    I am deeply distressed to hear stories of Americans being intimidated and harassed in the wake of Mr. Trump’s victory, and I hear the cries of families who are living in fear of being torn apart. We have come too far as a country in combating discrimination. We are not going back. Rest assured, there is no compromise on racism, bigotry, xenophobia and sexism. We will fight it in all its forms, whenever and wherever it re-emerges.

    I will keep an open mind to see what ideas Mr. Trump offers and when and how we can work together. Having lost the nationwide popular vote, however, he would do well to heed the views of progressives. If the president-elect is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families, I’m going to present some very real opportunities for him to earn my support.

    Let’s rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and create millions of well-paying jobs. Let’s raise the minimum wage to a living wage, help students afford to go to college, provide paid family and medical leave and expand Social Security. Let’s reform an economic system that enables billionaires like Mr. Trump not to pay a nickel in federal income taxes. And most important, let’s end the ability of wealthy campaign contributors to buy elections.

    In the coming days, I will also provide a series of reforms to reinvigorate the Democratic Party. I believe strongly that the party must break loose from its corporate establishment ties and, once again, become a grass-roots party of working people, the elderly and the poor. We must open the doors of the party to welcome in the idealism and energy of young people and all Americans who are fighting for economic, social, racial and environmental justice. We must have the courage to take on the greed and power of Wall Street, the drug companies, the insurance companies and the fossil fuel industry.

    When my presidential campaign came to an end, I pledged to my supporters that the political revolution would continue. And now, more than ever, that must happen. We are the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. When we stand together and don’t let demagogues divide us up by race, gender or national origin, there is nothing we cannot accomplish. We must go forward, not backward.


    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/op...here.html?_r=1


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  32. #192
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    Sanders was my choice for the POTUS. What percentage of jobs are outsourced to India over China ?

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    interesting times ahead.. Can't say I like him but then again I didn't care for hillary either..

    One thing is certain he will change the face of the country.. For good or bad only time will tell.

    illegal immigration has always been a major issue in this country and so is outsourcing. I actually agree with him on his immigration policies i just didn't like the way he conveyed that message. He could have been more diplomatic about the issues without issuing those offending remarks.

    And i definitely didn't like the stand of Hilary on the same subject as she wanted more refuges from Syria. That would have been disaster TBH.

    So, all in all I don't like the vibe of Trump but he can still prove me wrong. It was about lesser of two evils after all.

  34. #194
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    Trump on 9/11

    Does Trump still believes in his past statements?





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  35. #195
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    He just sounds confused as usual.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  36. #196
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    At least it isn't Chris Christie or Sarah Palin. That's the only positive I can think of.


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  37. #197
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    An experienced builder of tower blocks in New York sounding 'confused' ? Seems like he knows what he is talking about, if he knows about anything it's going to be buildings in New York!

  38. #198
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    Trump appoints white nationalist as chief strategist

    Trump just appointed Stephen Bannon, a white nationalist and owner of the xenophobic Breitbart network as his Chief Strategist.

    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...stephen-bannon


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  39. #199
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    I was watching Q with Ahmed Qureshi over the weekend. To my amazement he believes Trump winning the elections is good for Muslim people and Pakistan. Clearly, Trump is the worst thing to happen in America perhaps ever. The man is a loose cannon who seems to want civil war in his country. He seems to be doing everything possible for that to happen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AihpoLot7gY you can watch Ahmed Qureshi's stupidity and weird logic. Appointing a racist as strategist and talking of deporting million's will be disastrous for America.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  40. #200
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    Don't blame Ahmad Qureshi, plenty of Desi Muslims are supporting him, because "Hillary destroyed Syria and Libya".

    Funny thing is Obama did not attack Syria the way rebels wanted him to still his administration, along with Hillary are blamed for attacking Syria because they sent a few drones in ISIS areas....

  41. #201
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    Yet people say he is not a racist. He may not be but people like david duke still see him as savior as does many other people. Trump is doing nothing to stop making racist threats in his name. Looks like silent approval of their actions.

  42. #202
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    Does not matter that much if he is not racist, and I do not think he is

    What matters is who he puts in his cabinet ....

    Was GWB a neocon? No, but Cheney and Rumsfeld and Ashcroft were ... and they formed the lasting impression of GWB's tenure

  43. #203
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    China threatens to cut sales of iPhones and US cars if 'naive' Trump pursues trade war

    Link


    President-elect ‘will be condemned for his recklessness, ignorance and incompetence’ if he imposes tariffs, says Communist party-controlled paper.

    US president-elect Donald Trump would be a “naive” fool to launch an all-out trade war against China, a Communist party-controlled newspaper has claimed.

    During the acrimonious race for the White House Trump repeatedly lashed out at China, vowing to punish Beijing with “defensive” 45% tariffs on Chinese imports and to officially declare it a currency manipulator.

    “When they see that they will stop the cheating,” the billionaire Republican, who has accused Beijing of “the greatest theft in the history of the world”, told a rally in August.

    On Monday the state-run Global Times warned that such measures would be a grave mistake.

    “If Trump wrecks Sino-US trade, a number of US industries will be impaired. Finally the new president will be condemned for his recklessness, ignorance and incompetence,” the newspaper said in an editorial.

    The Global Times claimed any new tariffs would trigger immediate “countermeasures” and “tit-for-tat approach” from Beijing.

    “A batch of Boeing orders will be replaced by Airbus. US auto and iPhone sales in China will suffer a setback, and US soybean and maize imports will be halted. China can also limit the number of Chinese students studying in the US.”

    “Making things difficult for China politically will do him no good,” the newspaper warned.

    China’s foreign ministry has used more diplomatic language to caution Trump not to square up to Beijing.

    Foreign ministry spokesperson Lu Kang told reporters last week: “I believe that any US politician, if he takes the interests of his own people first, will adopt a policy that is conducive to the economic and trade cooperation between China and the US.”

    The excoriating editorial was printed hours after Trump spoke to China’s president, Xi Jinping. The president-elect’s staff said Trump thanked Xi for his well wishes and congratulations on his election victory.

    The statement read: “During the call, the leaders established a clear sense of mutual respect for one another, and President-elect Trump stated that he believes the two leaders will have one of the strongest relationships for both countries moving forward.”

    However, experts say officials in Beijing are still battling to untangle what a Trump presidency means for relations between the world’s two largest economies but wager he is unlikely to follow through on his most radical campaign pledges such as imposing 45% tariffs on “cheating China”.

    Paul Haenle, a veteran US diplomat who is director of the Carnegie-Tsinghua centre at Beijing’s Tsinghua University, said: “The biggest lesson that they draw from watching our presidential campaigns over the years is that he will become more realistic and more pragmatic once he is in the position where he has to govern. That is what they are hoping for when it comes to Trump.”

    Haenle warned the introduction of protectionist measures would immediately “inject friction” into already fraught US-China ties as well as harming America’s own economy.

    “If he follows through on a 45% trade tariff then I think it will be damaging to our own interests and we will have fallout that will affect our own companies and our own economy and it won’t be effective. It will not achieve what he is setting out to achieve. So from that standpoint he is going to have to moderate some of that rhetoric as he puts together actual concrete policies.”

    Jorge Guajardo, Mexico’s former ambassador to China, said he too expected Trump to moderate many of his audacious campaign pledges when he took office.

    “He’s in the hot seat now. He has got to deliver. It’s not the same as campaigning,” he said.

    Guajardo said Trump’s bluster would be quickly replaced with more realistic talk as he understood that serious engagement with Beijing was now needed on a range of key issues including the Paris climate deal, North Korea and trade ties.

    Attempts to strike a deal would soon be set in motion with Trump and the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, likely to come together early in his presidency, Guajardo predicted. “He’s a deal-maker and nobody is more of a deal-maker than China.”

  44. #204
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    China needs its sales to the US, all those cars and Iphones are bringing in money for them.

  45. #205
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    Just yesterday Trump said he talked to China's president and they were on good terms apparently..

    Also every time I see China written somewhere Trump's pronunciation of the word rings in my head.

    "CHOYNA"


    Swing it like Akram, whack it like Afridi, live it like Inti.

  46. #206
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    Sarah Palin surely even Trump won't employ this psychotic woman.

  47. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post



    At least it isn't Chris Christie or Sarah Palin. That's the only positive I can think of.
    This guy has no experience other than being mayor of nyc.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    China needs its sales to the US, all those cars and Iphones are bringing in money for them.
    Exactly, China will lose more than what US will lose. Trump will gain more popularity, looking like a hero fighting against bad evil corporates who can't export jobs to China. Win for Trump.

    No more cheap Chinese BS. American companies will have to export their jobs to Canada which is good for us. Trump will be fine doing trades with Canada. They already flock their products here.

  49. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Sarah Palin surely even Trump won't employ this psychotic woman.
    Why not? She was using pretty much the same language pitched at the same disenchanted white voters, who's to say she would be any less suitable than Trump for a role in the govt?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thivagar View Post
    Exactly, China will lose more than what US will lose. Trump will gain more popularity, looking like a hero fighting against bad evil corporates who can't export jobs to China. Win for Trump.

    No more cheap Chinese BS. American companies will have to export their jobs to Canada which is good for us. Trump will be fine doing trades with Canada. They already flock their products here.
    If protectionism was the answer, you wonder why Americans didn't follow that policy for the last 50 years when it has become the world's most successful nation?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  51. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    If protectionism was the answer, you wonder why Americans didn't follow that policy for the last 50 years when it has become the world's most successful nation?
    Who said there was any "protectionism" prior to Trump ?

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thivagar View Post
    Exactly, China will lose more than what US will lose. Trump will gain more popularity, looking like a hero fighting against bad evil corporates who can't export jobs to China. Win for Trump.

    No more cheap Chinese BS. American companies will have to export their jobs to Canada which is good for us. Trump will be fine doing trades with Canada. They already flock their products here.
    If Trump imposes that 45% tariff, then China will go down anyway. They might as well go down fighting.


    Also if more production is moved back to North America it will automatically raises prices several multiples since production is alot more expensive here. The increased prices will not result in a plethora of new jobs either since production is completely automated here.


    This "cheap Chinese BS" is what is keeping the world from coming to a halt. Or you can be ready to fork out $2000 for an IPhone instead of the $650 it is at present.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  53. #213
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    Sometimes I'm amazed by the level of naivety shown by Trump supporters.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  54. #214
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    Good for him, he's putting his money where his mouth is. This is what the nation voted for, he has to at least make some effort to deliver what the people wanted.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  55. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    If Trump imposes that 45% tariff, then China will go down anyway. They might as well go down fighting.


    Also if more production is moved back to North America it will automatically raises prices several multiples since production is alot more expensive here. The increased prices will not result in a plethora of new jobs either since production is completely automated here.


    This "cheap Chinese BS" is what is keeping the world from coming to a halt. Or you can be ready to fork out $2000 for an IPhone instead of the $650 it is at present.
    To make a iphone is about $15 the rest is profit.

  56. #216
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    Does Trump plan to bring back our manufacturing jobs from Canada? Or will he just let them keep those jobs cause they're a "White country"?


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  57. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post



    At least it isn't Chris Christie or Sarah Palin. That's the only positive I can think of.
    I read it was going to be Newt Gingrich, which is an even scarier proposition.

    Its fascinating how Giuliani, Gingrich and Christie have resurrected their careers. All of them were the also-rans, the discards of the Republican party. Gingrich was once the leading light in the anti-(Bill) Clinton movement, but then fell from grace. Giuliani too had his day in the sun in the early 2000's. Christie was once a rising star, and then "Bridgegate" happened, and his presidential ambitions went with it.

    Each one of them had nothing left to lose, and so they backed Trump, because they weren't ever going to work their way back into the Republican establishment, who had several more promising younger horses to bet on. Their gamble has paid off, and it really was a gamble.

    Lesson learnt: when you've got nothing to lose, shoot for the moon.


    Silver-tongued seraphim circling the spire...
    Gather in the gallery in their best attire...

  58. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    This "cheap Chinese BS" is what is keeping the world from coming to a halt. Or you can be ready to fork out $2000 for an IPhone instead of the $650 it is at present.
    One can say be ready to pay 200$ for 100$ Xiaomi, Huawei phone. iPhone is no way a correspondence or partial similarity to value for money lost cost devices. You are worried about world's most expensive phone, which has 10% market share out of which 90% buyers are from developed countries. World will not come to a halt if iPhone starts at $999 or production stops all together.

  59. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tera Gawaandi View Post
    One can say be ready to pay 200$ for 100$ Xiaomi, Huawei phone. iPhone is no way a correspondence or partial similarity to value for money lost cost devices. You are worried about world's most expensive phone, which has 10% market share out of which 90% buyers are from developed countries. World will not come to a halt if iPhone starts at $999 or production stops all together.
    China's biggest exports are $356b to the entire EU and $324b to the United States alone. The next biggest export partners are Hong Kong and ASEAN at $268b and $170b.

    So if United States starts curbing that huge amount of $324b, where do you think China will make up that money from?

    If US imposes tariffs it will have far reaching effect on the rest of the world.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  60. #220
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    So there was a time when Trump did talk sense??


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    An experienced builder of tower blocks in New York sounding 'confused' ? Seems like he knows what he is talking about, if he knows about anything it's going to be buildings in New York!
    In the first video, he seems to be suggesting there were bombs on the plane or in the building too. He's not very clear. Is there any other recordings or texts of his views on this?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  62. #222
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    Trump is known to believe in many conspiracy theories.

    But at least he had the balls to condemn the war on Iraq outright so I will give him credit for that.

  63. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    If Trump imposes that 45% tariff, then China will go down anyway. They might as well go down fighting.


    Also if more production is moved back to North America it will automatically raises prices several multiples since production is alot more expensive here. The increased prices will not result in a plethora of new jobs either since production is completely automated here.


    This "cheap Chinese BS" is what is keeping the world from coming to a halt. Or you can be ready to fork out $2000 for an IPhone instead of the $650 it is at present.
    Canada is not going to impose any tariffs on China, it is cheaper to produce goods here than in US and therefore we see an increase in jobs here if US impose tariffs against China .

    Samsung and LG products are manufactured in South Korea and they are well built and well priced. Apple is just being greedy trying to lower their production cost.

    The amount of Chinese BS we use compared to UK and Europe is unbelievable. My visits to the UK, Germany and Switzerland helped me realize just how many cheap Chinese plastic products we use in our daily lives compared to Europe.

  64. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Does Trump plan to bring back our manufacturing jobs from Canada? Or will he just let them keep those jobs cause they're a "White country"?
    Canadian currency is valued less and therefore we are more likely to get more manufacturing and packaging plants here. We used to have much more but they also started moving them to China.

  65. #225
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    Good, China knows how to deal with people like Trump. They will put him in his place.

  66. #226
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    both countries need each other. i'm sure trump will make some sort of cosmetic change to a trade deal and call it a great success.

  67. #227
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    Oldest U.S. president of all time.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  68. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by anuk View Post
    both countries need each other. i'm sure trump will make some sort of cosmetic change to a trade deal and call it a great success.
    Consumption will certainly reduced in short term due to prices but there will be jobs created in US and benefit in long term and also in the process getting rid of cheap low quality chinese products

    Manufacturing is good partially because the quality is controlled by US

  69. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by adit_sh View Post
    Consumption will certainly reduced in short term due to prices but there will be jobs created in US and benefit in long term and also in the process getting rid of cheap low quality chinese products

    Manufacturing is good partially because the quality is controlled by US
    No, that is NOT how things work. In a global economy, particularly with a first world country like US, thats not how jobs are created. The reason these jobs are outsourced is not only because of cheap wages but also because no one wants those jobs back home. What long term benefits do you see? The demand for cheap low quality Chinese products is there because not everyone wants or can afford high quality products all the time. Its not that expensive high quality products do not exist now. So getting rid of the low quality product will only reduce options people have


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

  70. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by adit_sh View Post
    Consumption will certainly reduced in short term due to prices but there will be jobs created in US and benefit in long term and also in the process getting rid of cheap low quality chinese products

    Manufacturing is good partially because the quality is controlled by US
    u are probably right and i don't really have a good understanding of economics so i couldn't with you anyway.

    but it is unrealistic to expect the american public will wait patiently while the factories go up to enjoy the next iphone

  71. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by anuk View Post
    u are probably right and i don't really have a good understanding of economics so i couldn't with you anyway.

    but it is unrealistic to expect the american public will wait patiently while the factories go up to enjoy the next iphone
    it is def not easy to do it and most likely he will not do it. there is a huge difference between election speeches and post election. dont we all know that :-)

  72. #232
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    Michael Flynn, Trump’s national security advisor, believes fake news & partisan conspiracy theories

    Donald Trump’s newly appointed national security adviser, retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, doesn’t control the nation’s military, like the secretary of defense. He doesn’t tell America’s diplomats what messages to pass to foreign leaders, like the secretary of state. And he doesn’t tell US spies which governments to infiltrate or which terror leaders to target, like the director of the CIA.

    Flynn’s powers are less tangible, but his role is critically important all the same. National security advisers help determine which foreign policy and national security questions reach the president and offer suggestions for how they should be resolved.

    That means Flynn will spend more time with President-elect Trump than any other member of the administration’s national security team. He is already helping choose candidates for senior posts while vetoing others, which means Trump’s Cabinet will clearly reflect Flynn’s thinking.

    Flynn will have one other responsibility — and this is where the retired general, despite his decades of generally exemplary military service, may be uniquely ill-suited to his role.

    From his insistence that President Obama was born abroad to his lies about black-on-white violence, Trump has shown a consistent and troubling habit of absorbing information from semi-factual news sources and treating it as though it were true. That was bad enough when he was just a candidate; it could be disastrous when he’s president.

    As Trump begins to slowly roll out picks for key Cabinet posts, it’s unclear whether he will fill his White House with aides willing to present him with information from reputable sources inside and outside of the government that may conflict with his general worldview or beliefs about a specific issue — or whether he will choose staffers who will shape the information flow to reinforce the new president’s existing views about issues like Russia and ISIS.

    And that’s why there’s reason to worry about Flynn. A close look at his recently published book, public comments, and tweets reveal a man who swims in the same swamp of hyperpartisan, frequently fabricated, and disturbingly anti-Muslim rhetoric as Trump advisers like Steve Bannon, the white nationalist who was one of the first to receive a West Wing post.

    This is apparent from a brief scan of Flynn’s Twitter feed. His tweets include a video that claims “Islam ... wants 80 percent of humanity enslaved or exterminated,” which he captioned “Fear of Muslims is RATIONAL,” and an article from a fake news site claiming that the NYPD was about to arrest Hillary Clinton for “sex crimes with minors,” among other charges.

    Flynn is one of those who will most directly determine the new president’s information diet. Based on what he appears to believe, that isn’t reassuring.

    How National Security Adviser Flynn could lead Trump astray

    Flynn’s official title will be assistant to the president for national security affairs, and in technical terms, his powers and responsibilities are fairly clear.

    He staffs and runs the National Security Council, which exists to coordinate and synthesize the sometimes conflicting policy proposals that emerge from the Pentagon, State Department, and other agencies. He communicates the president’s decisions to those agencies and works to ensure they’re implemented. And he presents the president with the strategic assessments of high-level officials like the secretaries of defense and state — and then offers his own thinking.

    That would be the case for any national security adviser, and any president. But Flynn is likely to be unusually influential because Trump has never held elected office, served in the military, or dealt with even a fraction of the foreign challenges — from ISIS to a rising China and a revanchist Russia — that he will face. Trump has also made comments on foreign policy that are muddled and sometimes contradictory, like raising questions about America’s security commitments to Japan and South Korea, only to then reassure them that nothing would change. Flynn will need to help the new president decide which path to go down.

    “A good national security adviser weighs in on debate to inform it but not sway it,” said Loren DeJonge Schulman, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security who formerly served as a top aide to Susan Rice, Obama’s national security adviser. “The truth is that’s incredibly difficult to pull off. Most people who hold that job wind up shading things, even if they’re not trying to.”

    In practice, the national security adviser’s powers have been steadily expanding as presidents of both parties concentrate power in the White House. When President Obama was working to normalize ties to Cuba, he entrusted the secret talks to two members of the National Security Council, Deputy National Security Adviser Benjamin Rhodes and then-Latin American director Ricardo Zuniga. Secretary of State John Kerry, according to the Washington Post, wasn’t notified about the negotiations until a late stage. Rice had known about them for months.

    One of the most successful recent national security advisers was Stephen Hadley, who held the post under then-President George W. Bush (and is rumored to be in the running for Trump’s defense secretary).

    Hadley was a quiet operator whom both the Pentagon and State Department trusted to accurately relay their views to the president before giving Bush his own assessment. Working with his predecessor Condoleezza Rice, then the secretary of state, Hadley successfully marginalized the more hawkish faction in the Bush administration led by Vice President Dick Cheney. He persuaded Bush to agree to the Iraq surge and curtail some of the CIA’s most brutal and controversial detainee interrogation programs.

    But if his past record is any guide, Flynn is unlikely to be the type of “honest broker” that has historically made for a successful national security adviser. He was removed from his post running the Defense Intelligence Agency after losing a bureaucratic battle with the CIA and butting heads with his superiors in the Pentagon — one of the government organizations he will now help oversee from his White House post.

    FLYNN HAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM TELLING TRUE INFORMATION FROM FALSE
    After retiring in 2014, Flynn has actively sought the limelight, often to express extreme views. During his speech at the Republican National Convention, he led the crowd in chants of, “Lock her up!” demanding Hillary Clinton’s imprisonment.

    The tenor of Flynn’s comments has startled other retired officers. Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top commander in Afghanistan when Flynn was running intelligence operations there, reached out to Flynn to urge him to tone down his rhetoric, according to a source familiar with the conversation. Two other retired officers told Vox in separate interviews that they considered Flynn to be “unhinged.”

    This might be less of a problem if Flynn were predisposed to push back against some of Trump’s more conspiratorial, racially charged, and anti-Muslim views. The problem is that Flynn seems to share many of them.

    He begins his 2016 book, The Field of Fight, by describing his reason for writing it: to expose an anti-American alliance between China, Cuba, and jihadist terrorists that the Obama administration is covering up. This is not an exaggeration; it is literally a defining feature of his worldview:

    This administration has forbidden us to describe our enemies properly and clearly: they are Radical Islamists. They are not alone, and are allied with countries and groups who, though not religious fanatics, share their hatred of the West, particularly the United States and Israel. Those allies include North Korea, Russia, China, Cuba, and Venezuela.
    There is no evidence that these countries are “allied” with groups like ISIS or al-Qaeda in any meaningful sense of the word. They are not supplying them with weapons, or money, or safe haven. It just makes no sense to speak of an “alliance” between these states and jihadists. Both Russia and China, in fact, are also facing vicious campaigns of Islamist terrorism within their own borders.

    Moreover, the idea that countries as diverse as North Korea and Venezuela present some kind of united anti-American foreign policy front is absurd. These countries all have had tense relations with the United States, but in wildly different ways and to varying degrees. They are not part of a united anti-American alliance with each other. Flynn’s construct is like the axis of evil on steroids.

    What this speaks to is Flynn’s propensity for hyping up the threat from jihadist groups, and trying to make everything else to fit that frame.

    This isn’t someone who’s well-positioned to look at, say, Chinese policy in the South China Sea and give President Trump a reasoned, detail-oriented assessment of Chinese thinking. He’s going to filter that information through his own monomaniacal lens and give Trump a deeply blinkered analysis of what’s going on.

    “The rap on him in the intelligence world is that he is great tactically but clueless strategically,” seasoned defense reporter Tom Ricks writes at Foreign Policy. “Not what you want in this slot.”

    To make matters worse, Flynn has a serious problem telling true information from false. He seems willing to believe anything that flatters his worldview and casts his opponents in a bad light, no matter how offensive or implausible the information may be. Other tweets alleged a Jewish conspiracy to help Clinton enter the White House (Flynn later deleted his tweet and apologized for it) and falsely accused Clinton of "wearing hijab in solidarity with islamic terrorists."

    These aren’t cherry-picked examples. As CNN’s Andrew Kaczynski documents, broadcasting fringe ideas and fake news was pretty par for the course when it comes to Flynn’s Twitter activity.

    This was a serious problem when he was chief of DIA. According to the New York Times’s Matthew Rosenberg and Maggie Haberman, he said so many questionable or false things during his time at the agency that his staff coined a term for them: “Flynn facts.”

    Remember, now, that analyzing information is the national security adviser’s main job. Flynn’s principal task is going to be taking the information he gets from the military and intelligence agencies and sorting it in a fashion that helps President Trump get a sense of what’s going on in the world and how he should respond to it.

    Yet Flynn, clearly, has a lot of difficulty figuring out what information is worthwhile. He seems willing to believe things as absurd as Clinton being involved in a child sex ring, based on a fake news article peppered with transparently silly quotes (one example: “‘What’s in the emails is staggering and as a father, it turned my stomach,’ the NYPD Chief said.”)

    Now, instead, imagine Flynn making hard judgment calls about what is and isn’t true. Imagine him in something like the runup to the Iraq War, where choosing to believe the wrong evidence helped push the United States into a disastrous military conflict. And further imagine that the president isn’t George W. Bush, who at least had some knowledge of world affairs and some good advisers, but Donald Trump.

    Shortly after Flynn entered the political fray in earnest, he told Foreign Policy’s Sean Naylor that he’s “not going to be a general that just fades away.”

    That’s proven true. Whether it’s good for the president he’s been chosen to serve — and the country itself — remains to be seen.

    http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/19/...ser-actual-job


    You don't burn calories by jumping to conclusions.

  73. #233
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    "Mad Dog" Mattis - Trump's Defence Secretary

    Retired general James “Mad Dog” Mattis — who for years oversaw U.S. war efforts in the Middle East and was tapped on Thursday by President-elect Donald Trump as his new Defence Secretary — did not come by his nickname lightly.

    Gen. Mattis, 66, commanded a Marine battalion during the First Gulf War and a marine division during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In 2010, the tough-talking native of Washington State was named to head the U.S. Central Command.

    That gave him authority over troops in Iraq, where he helped develop a counterinsurgency approach before overseeing the U.S. withdrawal, and Afghanistan, where he implemented a troop surge.

    It also gave him responsibility for an area including Syria, Yemen and Iran.

    Previously, the four-star general led the U.S. Joint Forces Command and a NATO command charged with preparing the alliance's forces to meet future challenges.

    A colourful commander, he earned the nickname “Mad Dog” with his battle-hardened swagger and the sort of blunt language Marines are famous for.

    He has been quoted as saying, “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.”

    Mr. Trump announced the nomination on Thursday at his first post-election rally in Ohio.

    “We are going to appoint ‘Mad Dog’ Mattis as our Secretary of Defence,” Mr. Trump told a large crowd of supporters in Cincinnati.

    “He’s our best. They say he’s the closest thing to (World War II-era) general George Patton that we have,” Mr. Trump said,

    If confirmed by the Senate, Gen. Mattis will be the first recently retired general to serve as Pentagon chief since George Marshall in 1950, who served under President Harry Truman.

    ‘Warrior Monk’


    Gen. Mattis’ salty language has at times gotten him into hot water, such as when he said during a panel discussion in San Diego, California in 2005: “You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn’t wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.”

    He later apologised for those words.

    But for all the bluster, Gen. Mattis has a cerebral side. He has issued required reading lists to Marines under his command, and instructed them that the most important territory on a battlefield is the space “between your ears”.

    A scholar of warfare, he is said to have a personal library of more than 7,000 volumes. And as a lifelong bachelor, he has another nickname: the “Warrior Monk”.

    Like Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, Mr. Trump’s choice as National Security Adviser, Gen. Mattis has been highly critical of the multination agreement reached last year with Iran to curtail its nuclear programme.

    But while Mr. Trump has spoken positively of working with President Vladimir Putin of Russia, Gen. Mattis has warned that Moscow wants to “break NATO apart”.

    Senator John McCain of Arizona, who chairs the Armed Services committee that would hold confirmation hearings for the next Defence Secretary, has said Gen. Mattis is “one of the finest military officers of his generation and an extraordinary leader”.

    But to serve as Defence Secretary, Gen. Mattis also would need a waiver of a law that bans uniformed military officers from serving as Secretary of Defence for seven years after leaving active duty.

    The law is intended to ensure the bedrock notion of civilian control of the nation’s military.

    Marshall was granted the same waiver in 1950.

    Link

  74. #234
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    Trump probably saw his nickname and insta-locked him

  75. #235
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    The nick name "Mad-Dog" is a worry.

  76. #236
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    Muslim comedian sits next to Eric Trump on trans-Atlantic flight

    Washington (CNN) Mo Amer, an Arab American stand-up comedian, received an unbelievable gift of comic material when he found himself seated next to Eric Trump on a flight to Scotland on Thursday.

    Amer, on his way to a leg of a comedy tour, shared a picture he took with Trump on Instagram, and described their conversation.

    "Hey guys heading to Scotland to start the U.K. Tour and I am 'randomly' chosen to sit next to none other than Eric Trump," he wrote.

    "Good news guys Muslims will not have to check in and get IDs. That's what I was told. I will be asking him a lot of questions on this trip to Glasgow, Scotland. Sometimes God just sends you the material. #Merica#UKTour #HumanAppeal#ThisisNotAnEndorsement#Trump2016Comed yTour"

    Amer spoke to Buzzfeed about the experience with Trump -- who was reportedly flying to Scotland to check in on the Trump International Golf Links -- and said he talked about President-elect Donald Trump's proposals for a form of government registry for Muslims or immigrants from majority-Muslim countries.

    "And I said -- just FYI I'm not getting that ID s*** done. You gonna really make my people get ID cards and all this? You know we're not doing this s***," Amer recounted telling Trump.

    He said that Trump told him, "Come on man. You can't believe everything you read. Do you really think we're gonna do that?"

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/02/po...-trump-flight/


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  77. #237
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    Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House

    The Obama administration has been debating for months how to respond to the alleged Russian intrusions, with White House officials concerned about escalating tensions with Moscow and being accused of trying to boost Clinton’s campaign.

    In September, during a secret briefing for congressional leaders, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) voiced doubts about the veracity of the intelligence, according to officials present.

    The Trump transition team dismissed the findings in a short statement issued Friday evening. “These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It’s now time to move on and ‘Make America Great Again,’ ” the statement read.

    Trump has consistently dismissed the intelligence community’s findings about Russian hacking.

    “I don’t believe they interfered” in the election, he told Time magazine this week. The hacking, he said, “could be Russia. And it could be China. And it could be some guy in his home in New Jersey.”

    The CIA shared its latest assessment with key senators in a closed-door briefing on Capitol Hill last week, in which agency officials cited a growing body of intelligence from multiple sources. Agency briefers told the senators it was now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s goal, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

    The CIA presentation to senators about Russia’s intentions fell short of a formal U.S. assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies. A senior U.S. official said there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions remain unanswered.

    For example, intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin “directing” the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to WikiLeaks, a second senior U.S. official said. Those actors, according to the official, were “one step” removed from the Russian government, rather than government employees. Moscow has in the past used middlemen to participate in sensitive intelligence operations so it has plausible deniability.

    Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, has said in a television interview that the “Russian government is not the source.”

    The White House and CIA officials declined to comment.

    On Friday, the White House said President Obama had ordered a “full review” of Russian hacking during the election campaign, as pressure from Congress has grown for greater public understanding of exactly what Moscow did to influence the electoral process.

    “We may have crossed into a new threshold, and it is incumbent upon us to take stock of that, to review, to conduct some after-action, to understand what has happened and to impart some lessons learned,” Obama’s counter terrorism and homeland security adviser, Lisa Monaco, told reporters at a breakfast hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.

    Obama wants the report before he leaves office Jan. 20, Monaco said. The review will be led by James Clapper, the outgoing director of national intelligence, officials said.

    During her remarks, Monaco didn’t address the latest CIA assessment, which hasn’t been previously disclosed.

    Seven Democratic senators last week asked Obama to declassify details about the intrusions and why officials believe that the Kremlin was behind the operation. Officials said Friday that the senators specifically were asking the White House to release portions of the CIA’s presentation.

    This week, top Democratic lawmakers in the House also sent a letter to Obama, asking for briefings on Russian interference in the election.

    U.S. intelligence agencies have been cautious for months in characterizing Russia’s motivations, reflecting the United States’ long-standing struggle to collect reliable intelligence on President Vladi*mir Putin and those closest to him.

    In previous assessments, the CIA and other intelligence agencies told the White House and congressional leaders that they believed Moscow’s aim was to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system. The assessments stopped short of saying the goal was to help elect Trump.

    On Oct. 7, the intelligence community officially accused Moscow of seeking to interfere in the election through the hacking of “political organizations.” Though the statement never specified which party, it was clear that officials were referring to cyber-intrusions into the computers of the DNC and other Democratic groups and individuals.

    Some key Republican lawmakers have continued to question the quality of evidence supporting Russian involvement.

    “I’ll be the first one to come out and point at Russia if there’s clear evidence, but there is no clear evidence — even now,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and a member of the Trump transition team. “There’s a lot of innuendo, lots of circumstantial evidence, that’s it.”

    Though Russia has long conducted cyberspying on U.S. agencies, companies and organizations, this presidential campaign marks the first time Moscow has attempted through cyber-means to interfere in, if not actively influence, the outcome of an election, the officials said.

    The reluctance of the Obama White House to respond to the alleged Russian intrusions before Election Day upset Democrats on the Hill as well as members of the Clinton campaign.

    Within the administration, top officials from different agencies sparred over whether and how to respond. White House officials were concerned that covert retaliatory measures might risk an escalation in which Russia, with sophisticated cyber-capabilities, might have less to lose than the United States, with its vast and vulnerable digital infrastructure.

    The White House’s reluctance to take that risk left Washington weighing more-limited measures, including the “naming and shaming” approach of publicly blaming Moscow.

    By mid-September, White House officials had decided it was time to take that step, but they worried that doing so unilaterally and without bipartisan congressional backing just weeks before the election would make Obama vulnerable to charges that he was using intelligence for political purposes.

    Instead, officials devised a plan to seek bipartisan support from top lawmakers and set up a secret meeting with the Gang of 12 — a group that includes House and Senate leaders, as well as the chairmen and ranking members of both chambers’ committees on intelligence and homeland security.

    Obama dispatched Monaco, FBI Director James B. Comey and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson to make the pitch for a “show of solidarity and bipartisan unity” against Russian interference in the election, according to a senior administration official.

    Specifically, the White House wanted congressional leaders to sign off on a bipartisan statement urging state and local officials to take federal help in protecting their voting-registration and balloting machines from Russian cyber-intrusions.

    Though U.S. intelligence agencies were skeptical that hackers would be able to manipulate the election results in a systematic way, the White House feared that Russia would attempt to do so, sowing doubt about the fundamental mechanisms of democracy and potentially forcing a more dangerous confrontation between Washington and Moscow.

    In a secure room in the Capitol used for briefings involving classified information, administration officials broadly laid out the evidence U.S. spy agencies had collected, showing Russia’s role in cyber-intrusions in at least two states and in hacking the emails of the Democratic organizations and individuals.

    And they made a case for a united, bipartisan front in response to what one official described as “the threat posed by unprecedented meddling by a foreign power in our election process.”

    The Democratic leaders in the room unanimously agreed on the need to take the threat seriously. Republicans, however, were divided, with at least two GOP lawmakers reluctant to accede to the White House requests.

    According to several officials, McConnell raised doubts about the underlying intelligence and made clear to the administration that he would consider any effort by the White House to challenge the Russians publicly an act of partisan politics.

    Some of the Republicans in the briefing also seemed opposed to the idea of going public with such explosive allegations in the final stages of an election, a move that they argued would only rattle public confidence and play into Moscow’s hands.

    McConnell’s office did not respond to a request for comment. After the election, Trump chose McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao, as his nominee for transportation secretary.

    Some Clinton supporters saw the White House’s reluctance to act without bipartisan support as further evidence of an excessive caution in facing adversaries.

    “The lack of an administration response on the Russian hacking cannot be attributed to Congress,” said Rep. Adam B. Schiff (Calif.), the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, who was at the September meeting. “The administration has all the tools it needs to respond. They have the ability to impose sanctions. They have the ability to take clandestine means. The administration has decided not to utilize them in a way that would deter the Russians, and I think that’s a problem.”



    Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.5ac82d44abfd


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  78. #238
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    The CIA concluded that Russia worked to elect Donald Trump

    The Washington Post is now reporting that the CIA has concluded something widely suspected but never flatly stated by the intelligence community: that Russia moved deliberately to help elect Donald Trump as president of the United States — not just to undermine the U.S. political process more generally.

    The Post's report cites officials who say they have identified individuals connected to the Russian government who gave WikiLeaks emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee and top Hillary Clinton aide John Podesta. One official described the conclusion that this was intended to help Trump as “the consensus view.”

    The report highlights and exacerbates the increasingly fraught situation in which congressional Republicans find themselves with regard to Russia and Trump. By acknowledging and digging into the increasing evidence that Russia helped — or at least attempted to help — tip the scales in Trump’s favor, they risk raising questions about whether Trump would have won without Russian intervention.

    Trump, after all, won by a margin of about 80,000 votes cast across three states, winning each of the decisive states by less than one percentage point. So even a slight influence could have plausibly made the difference, though we'll never be able to prove it one way or another.

    While saying that Russia clearly tried to help Trump doesn't inherently call into question the legitimacy of Trump's win —earlier Friday, the White House made sure to emphasize that it's not making that case — it's not hard to connect the dots. And Trump and his party know it. The Post's report cited Republicans who expressed skepticism about the available evidence when presented with it in September, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).

    In addition, any GOP effort to dig into the matter risks antagonizing the president-elect, who has said flatly that he doesn’t believe Russia interfered with the election, despite receiving intelligence briefings to the contrary. And he's proved more than willing to go after fellow Republicans who run afoul of him.

    On the other hand, if Republicans play down the issue, they risk giving a pass to an antagonistic foreign power that significant majorities of Americans and members of Congress do not trust and which, if the evidence is accurate, wields significant power to wage successful cyberwarfare with the United States.

    Already, House Democrats have begun pushing for something akin to the 9/11 Commission to look into allegations of Russian meddling. During the campaign, they pushed for hearings on the same issue.

    Until this week, they'd been unable to get much buy-in from congressional Republicans. But Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) voiced support for a probe on Wednesday, and now Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain (R-Ariz.) says he is working with Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) on a wide-ranging Senate probe, as The Post’s Karoun Demirjian reported Thursday.

    “I’m going after Russia in every way you can go after Russia,” Graham said. “I think they’re one of the most destabilizing influences on the world stage. I think they did interfere with our elections, and I want [Russian President Vladimir] Putin personally to pay the price.”

    But even as these probes start to materialize, Trump is singing a far different tune. In his interview with Time magazine for his “Person of the Year” award, Trump suggested that the interference could just as well have come from someone in New Jersey as from the Russian government.

    “I don’t believe they interfered,” Trump said. “That became a laughing point — not a talking point, a laughing point. Any time I do something, they say, ‘Oh, Russia interfered.’”

    Trump added: “It could be Russia. And it could be China. And it could be some guy in his home in New Jersey.”

    Trump also maintained over and over again on the campaign trail that he wanted a better relationship with Russia and praised Putin as a strong leader — while minimizing Russia’s favoritism for his campaign. And he did all of this at a time when Putin was very unpopular in the United States and even as the evidence was pointing in the direction of Russian meddling.

    In other words, Trump has shown that he's committed to seeing the best in Russia, and it's unlikely another report from the “dishonest media” citing anonymous sources is going to change his mind.

    And Trump has every reason to continue to dig in. He doesn’t want to breathe any life into the story line that he owes his election to Russian interference. Trump, after all, is a winner, and the idea that someone else might have won it for him just won't fly.

    Update: A statement from Trump's transition team, as expected, took a defiant tone about The Post's report: “These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It’s now time to move on and 'Make America Great Again.'”

    But for congressional Republicans, the evidence is increasingly getting to the point where they simply can’t ignore it, and some of them are feeling compelled to act — in a way that Trump isn’t likely to embrace.

    Compounding the dilemma for these Republicans is that many GOP and Trump voters are disinclined to think Russia meddled in the election. A poll released Friday by Democratic pollster Democracy Corps showed 55 percent of Trump voters and Republicans who didn’t vote for Trump say it’s probably true that stories alleging Russian interference in the election are conspiracy theories pushed by Clinton.

    Many Republicans are undoubtedly concerned about this. But as long as Trump is holding fast to the idea that this is all made up in an effort to undermine him, this whole thing could reinforce the long-standing chasm within the GOP, with him and his base pitted against establishment Republicans who will (again) be made to look like they’re trying to take down their outsider president-elect. And you can bet that’ll be how Trump pitches it.

    It all presents a possibly inauspicious start for the GOP Congress in the Trump era: a potential Trump vs. congressional-Republicans-battle over the same election that surprisingly installed him as president.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ssible-choice/


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  79. #239
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    President-elect Donald Trump nominates ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State

    Whatever happened to the anti-establishment, anti-globalist working class crusader who was going to "drain the swamp" of corruption in Washington ?

    Not since the Eisenhower Administration have so many business executives landed top government jobs. Let's take his appointments. Goldman Sachs president Gary Cohn is to lead the White House National Economic Council.

    He joins former Goldman Sachs colleagues Steven Mnuchin - the incoming Treasury Secretary, and Steve Bannon - the new senior White House adviser.

    We have a new head of the EPA, Scott Pruitt, who has fought tooth and nail against every common sense climate regulation during the Obama Administration, and is a climate change skeptic, as well as a key ally of the fossil fuel lobby. Then there's Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin, frontrunner to become Interior Secretary. Fallin is a climate change denier and was one of the first governors to oppose the Clean Power Plan.

    And the head of one of the largest oil companies on the planet is now the most powerful Foreign Minister in the world.

    Merry Christmas everyone.

  80. #240
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    It's kind of a good thing and markets have been reflecting that with the bull run

    I would say it destroys trumps credibility but was there any?

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