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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    arent the pcb bound by icc rules to enforce the ruling of another associate member (ECB)? i thought that was the case and that the pcb couldnt do anything even if they wanted to.
    If PCB didn't say a word reg Kaneria issue who was given a harsher sentence, they shouldn't say a word for the trio. Never fought for Amir let alone talk about Butt or Asif. Heard one of the main reason Amir got visa for England was due to PCB in its capacity pushing for it.

    PCB probably acted the right way for Kaneria but the wrong way for the trio.

    This issue is complicated.

    To this day, I don't understand why Kaneria is left rotting while the other 3 could very well play international games as well as all T20 tourneys.

    Can Kaneria play T20 tourneys all over the world (barring Eng)? I don't know. I am asking.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    If PCB didn't say a word reg Kaneria issue who was given a harsher sentence, they shouldn't say a word for the trio. Never fought for Amir let alone talk about Butt or Asif. Heard one of the main reason Amir got visa for England was due to PCB in its capacity pushing for it.

    PCB probably acted the right way for Kaneria but the wrong way for the trio.

    This issue is complicated.

    To this day, I don't understand why Kaneria is left rotting while the other 3 could very well play international games as well as all T20 tourneys.

    Can Kaneria play T20 tourneys all over the world (barring Eng)? I don't know. I am asking.
    i think both of us dont know the details so not much point in me saying much more. from what i understand after the debacle with the trio and the icc threatening to expel the pcb from the icc, or suspending it, they dindt hvae a choice but to keep relatively quiet about kaneria. in addition, my understanding is that if an icc member board issues a ban for a player, all other icc members have to honour that boards decision - so he is effectively banned from playing anywhere by icc rules. thats different from the trio (who i personally would have banned for life), in whose case the icc have not banned them for life.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    i think both of us dont know the details so not much point in me saying much more. from what i understand after the debacle with the trio and the icc threatening to expel the pcb from the icc, or suspending it, they dindt hvae a choice but to keep relatively quiet about kaneria. in addition, my understanding is that if an icc member board issues a ban for a player, all other icc members have to honour that boards decision - so he is effectively banned from playing anywhere by icc rules. thats different from the trio (who i personally would have banned for life), in whose case the icc have not banned them for life.
    I see....it is surprising why ECB/ICC went that route for trio. From what I have seen in PP over the years, many don't know why either.

    Would be nice if someone can post what is the difference between those two cases.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  4. #84
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    I can't imagine how the PCB is doing this.

    - Your captain basically committed the gravest disrespect to your nation
    - He almost destroyed one potential ATG career (Amir), and possibly has destroyed him
    - Put the finishing touches to another very likely ATG (Asif)
    - Gravely injured the reputation of Pakistan's cricket team
    - Committed the equivalent of spitting on your national flag (no other way of putting it), and
    - Refused to acknowledge his guilt until it became the only professional move he could make (I am almost certain he will take back his confession once he retires)

    And the PCB chairman is rumoured to have given him the go ahead to get back into the national team?

    For shame. For absolute shame. What are they thinking?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    You type as if this is the only poor series Amir has had.

    Tour of England- poor
    West Indies home series- average
    Tour of New Zealand- poor
    Tour of Australia- poor

    Amir has had 11 matches to reinvigorate his former self and has not been able to do so.

    Should fans tolerate Amir's inability to pick wickets? No. Nobody cares if he beat the bat on x occasions, the primary purpose of a bowler is to pick up wickets, which Amir has failed to fulfil.
    You fail to understand that you need to compare Amir to other Pak's pacer and as long as he's doing better than the others, he will be in Pak team.You may not like it but he's still or best pacer, our foreign coach openly criticize Sohail and Imran yet praises Amir, what does it means?
    If we can tolerate Sohail K and Irfan's fitness then we can surely tolerate Amir's lack of wkts too.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    I will also say one thing. Pakistan has saved and forgiven tainted players multiple times. They life banned Akhtar and over-turned. Asif was saved 4 times no. Not one single time have they ever benefited from forgiving a player. Either the player committed another bigger mistake or they never performed for the team. So selecting such players have not only created a bad name for Pakistan in the international cricket committee, the cricket team has never, ever seen a single benefit.

    Akhtar didn't come back and start winning matches. Asif came back and committed more crimes. Amir is not even performing. Your team and your reputation has never benefited one single time from forgiving anyone in the past. I doubt it will do again in the future but you keep repeating the same thing.
    When the trio were caught, Pakistan cricket had a chance to gain from it. We could have banned them for life, show the world we are against corruption, and discourage fixing happening in Pakistani cricket again. It was a positive thing they were caught, not negative, we should have been thanking NOTW for exposing them.

    Instead we took a soft stance, damaged our reputation, not really discouraged fixing with this soft penalty. In fact if you want to be a fixer, it's kind of showed the world best be a fixer in the pakistani cricket set up as they are the most lenient. These trio will be given a second chance in international cricket when many domestic players toll their whole life without getting a chance.

    The trio should have been given a second chance as anyone who committed a crime should. But not in international cricket. It's like a guy who worked for a company, robbed that company, and then after jail expecting his job back again.

    I don't feel like the rest of the cricketing world will be very accommodating for Butt. They can just about stomach Butt, but a spot fixing captain is too much. And it undoes a lot of the good work done by Misbah (regardless of what you think of him as a player or captain) and co who brought a bit of respectability to Pakistani cricket.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I see....it is surprising why ECB/ICC went that route for trio. From what I have seen in PP over the years, many don't know why either.

    Would be nice if someone can post what is the difference between those two cases.
    Think the difference is Pak trio did fixing amongst themselves. It didn't hurt English cricket. Kaneria allegedly persuaded others to fix like Westfield. England didn't take too kindly to other players bringing fixing to their country/domestic set up. And think they wanted to set a precedent that foreign cricketers can not come to their country to play in their domestic set up to fix.

  8. #88
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    What is Misbah's position after Twin Tons of Salman in QEA final ?


    Shehzad will make Odi comeback while Butt will make Test comeback during or after West Indies tour.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    What is Misbah's position after Twin Tons of Salman in QEA final ?


    Shehzad will make Odi comeback while Butt will make Test comeback during or after West Indies tour.
    I can't support the recall of Salman Butt, even though I'm clear that he is one of the best two First Class/Test batsmen in the country.

    I see two problems crippling Pakistan currently. One is a geriatric team, in which even Younis Khan has long since lost his consistency (and failed in 14 of his 17 innings outside Asia since July).

    The other is excessive deference to Social Class.

    Salman Butt would make both those problems worse. He is as old as Alastair Cook and Azhar Ali, but a team should only carry one player that old.

    The only problem I see him improving is the creeping re-Islamisation of the team. I have no problem with sportsmen having whatever beliefs they like, but Shaharyar Khan wrote in his autobiography about how at Ovalgate Inzamam's absolute conviction that he was moral and therefore right made him ignore what the actual rules are.

    We saw more of that with Azhar and Hafeez around Amir's re-introduction, and even with the Sharjeel/Latif issue too many people are begging for what is "right" rather than adherence to the rules and sentencing guidelines. And such conviction often leads players not to improve their training and skills.

    I oppose any player over 35 in any sports team, and with Azhar, Asad Shafiq, Yasir Shah and Sarfraz already crossing the 30 mark I don't think any more elderly players should be called up.
    Last edited by Junaids; 22nd February 2017 at 20:26.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I can't support the recall of Salman Butt, even though I'm clear that he is one of the best two First Class/Test batsmen in the country.

    I see two problems crippling Pakistan currently. One is a geriatric team, in which even Younis Khan has long since lost his consistency (and failed in 14 of his 17 innings outside Asia since July).

    The other is excessive deference to Social Class.

    Salman Butt would make both those problems worse. He is as old as Alastair Cook and Azhar Ali, but a team should only carry one player that old.

    The only problem I see him improving is the creeping re-Islamisation of the team. I have no problem with sportsmen having whatever beliefs they like, but Shaharyar Khan wrote in his autobiography about how at Ovalgate Inzamam's absolute conviction that he was moral and therefore right made him ignore what the actual rules are.

    We saw more of that with Azhar and Hafeez around Amir's re-introduction, and even with the Sharjeel/Latif issue too many people are begging for what is "right" rather than adherence to the rules and sentencing guidelines. And such conviction often leads players not to improve their training and skills.

    I oppose any player over 35 in any sports team, and with Azhar, Asad Shafiq, Yasir Shah and Sarfraz already crossing the 30 mark I don't think any more elderly players should be called up.
    But then you'd be disregarding your own belief of "adherence to the rules and sentencing guidelines" !!! where does it state that over 35's should be banned from participation

  11. #91
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    sami and azhar should open. sami has only had like 7 matches which is not much


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I can't support the recall of Salman Butt, even though I'm clear that he is one of the best two First Class/Test batsmen in the country.

    I see two problems crippling Pakistan currently. One is a geriatric team, in which even Younis Khan has long since lost his consistency (and failed in 14 of his 17 innings outside Asia since July).

    The other is excessive deference to Social Class.

    Salman Butt would make both those problems worse. He is as old as Alastair Cook and Azhar Ali, but a team should only carry one player that old.

    The only problem I see him improving is the creeping re-Islamisation of the team. I have no problem with sportsmen having whatever beliefs they like, but Shaharyar Khan wrote in his autobiography about how at Ovalgate Inzamam's absolute conviction that he was moral and therefore right made him ignore what the actual rules are.

    We saw more of that with Azhar and Hafeez around Amir's re-introduction, and even with the Sharjeel/Latif issue too many people are begging for what is "right" rather than adherence to the rules and sentencing guidelines. And such conviction often leads players not to improve their training and skills.

    I oppose any player over 35 in any sports team, and with Azhar, Asad Shafiq, Yasir Shah and Sarfraz already crossing the 30 mark I don't think any more elderly players should be called up.
    Age should not be a deterministic factor in excluding a player from consideration. As as can field well along with his primiary skillset, he should be considered. And I think Butt would fit that bill that criteria for Test Cricket.

    Now the only thing you could argue is that if you have youngster who has good potential and would be a better long term investment then you can pick the youngster ahead of the older player.

    As far as Test openers are concerned, we only have two at the time - Azhar and Sami. You could make a case for a third opener in the mix. Whether Butt should be our 3rd pick or not can be debated when considering other options.


    The man on top of the mountain didn’t fall there — Vince Lombardi

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketInsight View Post
    Age should not be a deterministic factor in excluding a player from consideration. As as can field well along with his primiary skillset, he should be considered. And I think Butt would fit that bill that criteria for Test Cricket.

    Now the only thing you could argue is that if you have youngster who has good potential and would be a better long term investment then you can pick the youngster ahead of the older player.

    As far as Test openers are concerned, we only have two at the time - Azhar and Sami. You could make a case for a third opener in the mix. Whether Butt should be our 3rd pick or not can be debated when considering other options.
    That would, with respect, just perpetuate the problem.

    You would have Azhar Ali, Salman Butt, Asad Shafiq, Sarfraz Ahmed and Yasir Shah all declining and needing to be replaced at the same time in 2018 or 2019.

    An international team needs to be carefully selected to avoid that outcome. So don't bring into the team a 32 year old when there are already 5 players aged 30-32 and 2 players aged 42.

  14. #94
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    Oh great.

    We can have the quadrology of Butt, Sharjeel, Amir and Asif.

    Show to the world when it comes to corruption no one can beat us.

    After all we have given 4 chances to Sharifs, 3 to Bhuttos, so why not at least 2 chances to all the fixers in the country.

    Come join us on the fixing bandwagon.

    We are a merciful nation.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Oh great.

    We can have the quadrology of Butt, Sharjeel, Amir and Asif.

    Show to the world when it comes to corruption no one can beat us.

    After all we have given 4 chances to Sharifs, 3 to Bhuttos, so why not at least 2 chances to all the fixers in the country.

    Come join us on the fixing bandwagon.

    We are a merciful nation.
    I can't believe that you and I are agreeing - albeit for completely different reasons!

    Having said that, you should read "Bookie, Gambler, Fixer, Spy". You won't get very far into Chapter 4 before you realize that those four players are not the ones you should be worrying about.

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