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  1. #481
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    How did Bangladesh manage to lose this one?

    Probably got complacent after the mammoth first innings score.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    Personally I want the team to watch videos of these matches again and again:

    -loss to India in world cup T20
    -loss to NZ in wt20
    -loss to Afghanistan in 2nd ODI
    -loss to England in 1st ODI
    -all the losses against NZ in LoIs last year
    -loss in this test
    For Mushfiqur, just blend this recipe with highlights of the India vs West Indies semi-final at regular intervals.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    I personally don't have anything left to say

    It's not that we are a bad team. We are capable side. And yet we see all these stupid mistakes

    While I am a big fan of Shakib I will never label him along with the likes of Imran or Kapil or Botham because he sometimes makes some horror decisions with bat in hand. Irresponsible.

    Thing is we need a fresh set of players. These garbage players like Riad is grossly overrated because of twin centuries in ODI world cup where someone like Brendan Taylor was among the highest run scorers no offense to him.

    Also about time we get rid of Haturisinghe and his rubbish coaching staff - Walsh, Halsal, Samaraweera and actually bring recognized coaches like Ian pont, Fountain, Stuart Law, heck even Venkatesh prasad

    Personally I want the team to watch videos of these matches again and again:

    -loss to India in world cup T20
    -loss to NZ in wt20
    -loss to Afghanistan in 2nd ODI
    -loss to England in 1st ODI
    -all the losses against NZ in LoIs last year
    -loss in this test

    I want the players to watch every bit of it. And then we can actually see them stop wasting time taking selfies, dyeing their hair blonde, doing mannequin challenges.

    Sometimes I wonder if these guys are even cricketers. Look at Kohli. Guy does everything but he works hard and plays on the field as if his life depends on it. Physiologically our players are of the same mould as Kohli but to them cricket field looks like a little picnic area. Pathetic. It seems that these losses don't even affect them. Oh wait that's because they can go back to their BPL sides where they will be labeled as "big players"
    Was anyone drunk or even delusional enough to dream of such a thing? Shakib isn't even on the level of a Flintoff, let alone the four great AR of the 80's & then there's the ultimate AR, Sobers of course.

  4. #484
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    To Bangladesh supporters,

    These are only growing pains. You will get better. I believe this and you should too.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Was anyone drunk or even delusional enough to dream of such a thing? Shakib isn't even on the level of a Flintoff, let alone the four great AR of the 80's & then there's the ultimate AR, Sobers of course.
    That's because he has good stats in all forms of the game and the only world class genuine all-rounder across all forms for 10 years or so.

    But he needs to deliver more performances in match winning situation.

    Shakib averages 40+ with bat and has 15 5 wicket hauls in tests alone. And has several all-round performances which would put his name amongst the greats

  6. #486
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    Congrats to NZ. But well played Bangladesh. You did better than most people expected. Keep getting better. You are going in the right direction.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    For Mushfiqur, just blend this recipe with highlights of the India vs West Indies semi-final at regular intervals.
    Not sure how it helps.

    That will only make him relax more

  8. #488
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    good effort. pushed NZ hard for the win. If you look at the small important events like this since EC15, you'll see BAN is on the rise.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    While I am a big fan of Shakib I will never label him along with the likes of Imran or Kapil or Botham because he sometimes makes some horror decisions with bat in hand. Irresponsible.

    Physiologically our players are of the same mould as Kohli
    A few golden statements to show how you massively overrate your team and its players.

    Shakib should not even be mentioned with Imran/Kapil/Botham in the same sentence and lol @ Bangladeshi players having the same physique as Kohli. Kohli is the fittest of all while most Bangladeshi players have a physique of a rickshaw waala. No offence.

  10. #490
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    What a beast kane is....scoring a 89 ball hundred on 4th inngs is some serious feat

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    That's because he has good stats in all forms of the game and the only world class genuine all-rounder across all forms for 10 years or so.

    But he needs to deliver more performances in match winning situation.

    Shakib averages 40+ with bat and has 15 5 wicket hauls in tests alone. And has several all-round performances which would put his name amongst the greats
    Outside of these stats, padded by playing against the likes of Zim/Ireland/Afg & second string WI in WI, can you tell me half a dozen major contributions from him against a top 8 side in tests or ICC tournaments? In a decade, playing as regularly as he has surely there must be some number of meaningful performances to back his supposed impact?

    He's good, very good in fact but he's not really that good against better teams or even consistently brilliant against them.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    To Bangladesh supporters,

    These are only growing pains. You will get better. I believe this and you should too.
    Lol

    The only thing that will happen is that the players will keep thinking about such losses and will keep doing the same.

    Mental block mate.

    Same way Pak can't beat India in world cup and South Africa goes missing in world cups and Australian T20 side is substandard despite boasting"so-called" T20 specialists and big hitters who are sold out in IPL auctions for millions.

    I don't believe that everything eventually improves. Failure makes people better generally but continuous failure creates a negative frame of mind. It's a continuous cycle. Unfortunately we are stuck in this cycle of collapsing like a pack of cards and the only thing that can help us is psychological treatment.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Outside of these stats, padded by playing against the likes of Zim/Ireland/Afg & second string WI in WI, can you tell me half a dozen major contributions from him against a top 8 side in tests or ICC tournaments? In a decade, playing as regularly as he has surely there must be some number of meaningful performances to back his supposed impact?

    He's good, very good in fact but he's not really that good against better teams or even consistently brilliant against them.
    His performance against too teams is actually rather good and in tests he doesnt play much against Zimbabwe.

    The thing is being a genuine all-rounder in a mediocre side is difficult. Because you will be eventually forced to contribute with both bat and ball in hand.

    It's hard to be a genuine all-rounder in world cricket even more so when you are basically the best batsman and bowler in the side and you can't really focus on either discipline because your team needs both of it. If he was playing for a side like India or England he would have immense freedom.

    But to play for Bangladesh is a tough task because you have to perform with bat and ball every freaking time. He does that but he lacks the clutch-ness one needs.

  14. #494
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    I think this is the first instance where team scored 600 in first innings and lost isn't it?


    jos butler a hockey player???

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedking View Post
    I think this is the first instance where team scored 600 in first innings and lost isn't it?
    They didn't score 600, declared last I checked but this is the biggest score (any innings IIRC) to lose a test.

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    They didn't score 600, declared last I checked but this is the biggest score (any innings IIRC) to lose a test.
    hmm they scored 595 but


    jos butler a hockey player???

  17. #497
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    I don't want to rub it in or anything but this was emphatically pathetic.

  18. #498
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    There is no way Shakib can be grouped with the likes of Imran, Botham, Kallis or Kapil.

    He's clearly a good all rounder but not in the class of the aforementioned. Heck Ashwin has beaten him as the best test all rounder in the world in a few years. He's too inconsistent to be in the class of the all rounders of the 80s.

  19. #499
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    After 2nd day, I was dead sure that it would be a tame draw.

    Bangladesh have worked extremely hard to snatch defeat from nowhere. Should be a record of sorts.

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    Personally I want the team to watch videos of these matches again and again:

    -loss to India in world cup T20
    -loss to NZ in wt20
    -loss to Afghanistan in 2nd ODI
    -loss to England in 1st ODI
    -all the losses against NZ in LoIs last year
    -loss in this test
    I suggest you watch those games, you were crushed in all those games buddy.

    Fair enough to bring up this Test, but you were crushed or not good enough to handle the conditions.

    And no Shakib definitely isn't in the league of those ATG's.

    Scoring runs at the Basin proves nothing, the Basin is the flattest wicket in the world. Just have a look at scores in recent years.
    Last edited by Aman; 16th January 2017 at 08:33.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  21. #501
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    LOI's Executioner is referring to

    1st ODI - beaten by 77 runs
    2nd ODI - beaten by 67 runs
    3rd ODI - beaten by 8 wickets with 52 balls remaining

    1st T20 - beaten by 6 wickets with 12 balls remaining
    2nd T20 - beaten by 47 runs

    Where will they learn anything from these games, when in all of them they weren't good enough to hang in the match.

    We had our good patches against India too, but in the end the much better side won because

    1) They were far better in those conditions
    2) Man to man they were superior

    Instead of making excuses, why not face facts and accept your side isn't good enough to beat this weak NZ side in NZ?

    As for the WC match, I suggest you watch it again. The wicket wasn't easy to bat on and you ended up getting nowhere close to our total. Think you only managed 60 runs (less than half the total we made in the first innings)?

    No idea why they should watch the match as NZ made a good total on that pitch and then rolled the Bangladeshi's on it with their slower bowlers.
    Last edited by Aman; 16th January 2017 at 08:41.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  22. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    what a joke of a team.

    How the hell do you lose after scoring near 600.

    Well deserve win for nz,
    Against the weaker teams, we seem to get away with the dropping off.

    Against the top sides, we usually end up getting crushed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  23. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Was anyone drunk or even delusional enough to dream of such a thing? Shakib isn't even on the level of a Flintoff, let alone the four great AR of the 80's & then there's the ultimate AR, Sobers of course.
    Not sure if you are underrating Shakib or overrating Flintoff but Shakib is at least as good as Flintoff. Definitely a better batsman and the same level if not better as a bowler.

    Of course I agree with you that he is not on the level of the 4 great allrounders of the 80s but if he can play for another 10 years and be just as good as he has been or a little bit better he can maybe get into the conversation with Kapil.

  24. #504
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    Would be a tough pill to swallow for Bangla no doubt but not all bad. Plenty of positives to take out of this game.

  25. #505
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    Bangladeshis don't have the temperament to play test matches.

  26. #506
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    Something similar happened to us in Melbourne, we scored 449 and we thought this game will end in a draw..

  27. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Menace View Post
    Not sure if you are underrating Shakib or overrating Flintoff but Shakib is at least as good as Flintoff. Definitely a better batsman and the same level if not better as a bowler.

    Of course I agree with you that he is not on the level of the 4 great allrounders of the 80s but if he can play for another 10 years and be just as good as he has been or a little bit better he can maybe get into the conversation with Kapil.
    Maybe but Flintoff was definitely the better bowler of the two, way better IMO. His performances in India, Ashes 2005/09 & SA 2005 are not flukes, Shakib doesn't have anything of note vis-à-vis Flintoff, though playing more tests could get him to the same level as Flintoff the bowler (he's definitely a better bat) by the time he hangs his boot.

    O'really considering Kapil's consistent performances against Eng/WI/Aus I'd say Shakib will need to do twice of what he's done till now, against Ind/SA/Eng both home & away, to be mentioned in the same breath as him.
    Last edited by R0H1T; 16th January 2017 at 10:10.

  28. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Menace View Post
    Not sure if you are underrating Shakib or overrating Flintoff but Shakib is at least as good as Flintoff. Definitely a better batsman and the same level if not better as a bowler.

    Of course I agree with you that he is not on the level of the 4 great allrounders of the 80s but if he can play for another 10 years and be just as good as he has been or a little bit better he can maybe get into the conversation with Kapil.
    Kapil has performed better with ball in Aus than many legendary bowlers sorry but not yet,lets also not forget Kapil was the captain for the world cup victory where India was an underdog but defeated the mighty Windies twice in that tournament.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  29. #509
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    Congrats to Kiwis✌️

    And our boys as well, as long as they understand that Test cricket is big boys game. It's easy to be hero in a 20 overs or 50 overs Mickey Mouse game; but the toughest job in cricket is batting on 2nd innings - particularly if you are to bat in a no win situation & play to bat out.

    It hurts, but simply this is the reason I like Test match so much. It's a contest beyond direct win loss as one has to compete with time as well.

    I never like 1st innings declaration, never - if you are in high, score faster & get all out for a higher score.

  30. #510
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    Really enjoy Williamson's aggressive approach even under pressure situations.. guy only has one goal: keep the score board ticking

    Hope he is back for good

  31. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    All my Sunday buzz from two wins gone!

    Yeh kya hogaya? @MMHS
    Records are made to be broken - we have broken one record at least

    Test matches are different ball game than 20 overs comic show. In this thread itself you can find somewhere I wrote (when we ended 1st innings) that batting in 2nd innings is the toughest job - it's the difference between teams. I wrote in 2nd day & I'll write it again - NEVER declare on a 1st innings of a Test, particularly if it's a 1st innings of a 5 Day match; because there is enough time for the other team to comeback. Bat positively & get all-out with as much as you can get.

    Couple of untimely injury didn't help either - but that makes Tamim, Mahmood, Miraj, Sakib & Sabbir more stupid - they should have counted that team is couple of batsmen short.

  32. #512
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    Executioner and MMHS, the boys played well. Though you guys got defeated, finally things are looking in right place for Bangladesh. Improvement is showing.

    Good effort.

  33. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Maybe but Flintoff was definitely the better bowler of the two, way better IMO. His performances in India, Ashes 2005/09 & SA 2005 are not flukes, Shakib doesn't have anything of note vis-¨¤-vis Flintoff, though playing more tests could get him to the same level as Flintoff the bowler (he's definitely a better bat) by the time he hangs his boot.

    O'really considering Kapil's consistent performances against Eng/WI/Aus I'd say Shakib will need to do twice of what he's done till now, against Ind/SA/Eng both home & away, to be mentioned in the same breath as him.
    Definitely better because of few good spell? If he was definitely better then why wicket column show less while playing with Hoggard and Anderson type good bowlers.
    Sakib play with medicore attack and still manage to do more than enough and also play on some of the flattest track. It is not Shakib but Flintoff who is overrated . Person like Cairns should be considered as a bech mark for good all-rounder after atg ones.

  34. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navdeep Srivastava View Post
    Definitely better because of few good spell? If he was definitely better then why wicket column show less while playing with Hoggard and Anderson type good bowlers.
    Sakib play with medicore attack and still manage to do more than enough and also play on some of the flattest track. It is not Shakib but Flintoff who is overrated . Person like Cairns should be considered as a bech mark for good all-rounder after atg ones.
    His records are deflated by a couple(?) of bad series down under. Unless Shakib has played against the likes of Warne/Mcgrath & Ponting/Gilchrist at their destructive best, & excelled then he has very little of note to show vis-a-vis Freddie. Flintoff started in an era when England were mediocre, he was a second or third change bowler, his stats reflect that, but some of his spells were awespiring, can you remember one such spell from Shakib against great batters?

    The few good spells are that stand out, he was also more consistently threatening as a bowler IIRC.
    Last edited by R0H1T; 16th January 2017 at 17:05.

  35. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    His records are deflated by a couple(?) of bad series down under. Unless Shakib has played against the likes of Warne/Mcgrath & Ponting/Gilchrist at their destructive best, & excelled then he has very little of note to show vis-a-vis Freddie. Flintoff started in an era when England were mediocre, he was a second or third change bowler, his stats reflect that, but some of his spells were awespiring, can you remember one such spell from Shakib against great batters?

    The few good spells are that stand out, he was also more consistently threatening as a bowler IIRC.
    Sakib actually had bowled few really good spells, you (not only you, most here) hardly watched BD cricket before 2015 I believe, hence it's understandable. First, a spinners bowling can never be matched with a pacer, because of the different operational mood - a spinner works on the fundamental of building pressure & slow burn, while pacers often try to force the issue in short spells which helps him to preserve energy. In that regard, Sakib actually did wonders for a team that always licked 4+ runs from other end & often bowling with 300/400 runs on board already. I think, he has about 9 5fors against top 8 sides & most of them in 1st innings, which itself is tougher for spinners.

    Personally, I don't rate AF that much, who was over blown for that Ashes win in 20 years.

  36. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Sakib actually had bowled few really good spells, you (not only you, most here) hardly watched BD cricket before 2015 I believe, hence it's understandable. First, a spinners bowling can never be matched with a pacer, because of the different operational mood - a spinner works on the fundamental of building pressure & slow burn, while pacers often try to force the issue in short spells which helps him to preserve energy. In that regard, Sakib actually did wonders for a team that always licked 4+ runs from other end & often bowling with 300/400 runs on board already. I think, he has about 9 5fors against top 8 sides & most of them in 1st innings, which itself is tougher for spinners.

    Personally, I don't rate AF that much, who was over blown for that Ashes win in 20 years.
    You're right I haven't followed much of Shakib, but even then I don't remember any great spell from him against a major batting power in the last decade. Zim & second string WI shouldn't count, perhaps NZ were equally bad in Bangladesh?

    Flintoff wasn't as good as Cairns, in terms of bowling (or genuine) AR over the last 20yrs Cairns is the best IMO, but he was the second best after him in a period where we've had only a handful of AR let alone quality ones.

    How about you list the matches or innings where did make a material impact with his bowling/batting & not just tailender wickets, like Rashid's haul in India.

  37. #517
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    Bangla are short of world class bowlers. Their spinners work only in Bangladesh.

    Bangla like India are batting dependent nation. But the Indian spinners are far superior to Bangla ones.

    Good to seem them put a scare in the minds of Kiwis. Things can only improve from here on for them

  38. #518
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    They should have drawn. Better luck next time. Feel a bit sorry for BD fans.


    Ex Shahid Afridi fan.

  39. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Maybe but Flintoff was definitely the better bowler of the two, way better IMO. His performances in India, Ashes 2005/09 & SA 2005 are not flukes, Shakib doesn't have anything of note vis-à-vis Flintoff, though playing more tests could get him to the same level as Flintoff the bowler (he's definitely a better bat) by the time he hangs his boot.

    O'really considering Kapil's consistent performances against Eng/WI/Aus I'd say Shakib will need to do twice of what he's done till now, against Ind/SA/Eng both home & away, to be mentioned in the same breath as him.
    I view Flintoff as a very good bowler. You have to be to average low 30s in test matches. But it is a little bit like saying Azhar Mahmood is a better batsman than Mahela Jayawardena because Azhar played an innings of the highest quality with that 132.

    Remember that Shakib has taken a 5 wicket haul against every opposition he has faced.

    With regard to Kapil. I did say that Shakib would need to perform at his current level or higher for another 10 years on top of the 10 years he has already played just to get in to the conversation. I think this is a fair statement.

    It is not inconceivable that Shakib could end up averaging 42-43 with the bat and 10 centuries and 300 plus wickets with the ball at an average of about 30. Especially now that he has much better support.

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