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  1. #1
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    Pep Guardiola - Overrated?

    Probably the most overrated manager ever, achieves when you give him the best players in the world but when you give him a challenge he fails.

    ....and like Citys position reveals, he is no better than Pelligrini or Manchini.

    even Bayern Munich learnt he was a step down from Jupp Heynckes.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

  2. #2
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    Not sure if he is over-rated but he hasn't figured out how to play in the Premier League.

    Getting rid of Hart for an average keeper because Pep wants to play from the back is the move which is hurting the team.

    He should stop being stubborn and change the way the team plays. If Company comes back, City can still challenge for the title.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Current city team is old and it's clear pep needs younger players and players who fit his style. The 4 full backs are past there best and don't fit into his style so he is already handicapped in that position. Yaya Toure isn't the player he was, and in any case I don't think pep really wants him around.

    Pep also wants his team to press which this current bunch of players don't do or or confused on when to do it. Pep also like altering a lot, needs to try and select an eleven and give it a run of games. Furthermore he is still finding out about the premier league.

    Next season will be the time to judge him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Current city team is old and it's clear pep needs younger players and players who fit his style. The 4 full backs are past there best and don't fit into his style so he is already handicapped in that position. Yaya Toure isn't the player he was, and in any case I don't think pep really wants him around.

    Pep also wants his team to press which this current bunch of players don't do or or confused on when to do it. Pep also like altering a lot, needs to try and select an eleven and give it a run of games. Furthermore he is still finding out about the premier league.

    Next season will be the time to judge him.
    Considering he broke the transfer record for a CB, there cant be any complaints about the defence, or any other player really as he was given soo much time before his appointment to get ready and make his transfers and the only thing he came up with was to remove Hart, bring in Stones and ditch Yahya.

    By the looks of it, next season will be an even bigger disaster.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

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    He needs a clear out so the owners must be ready to give him £500 million to spend. The EPL is much tougher to win then the La Liga. He has just found that out after Everton walloped his over priced stars like their daddy!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    Considering he broke the transfer record for a CB, there cant be any complaints about the defence, or any other player really as he was given soo much time before his appointment to get ready and make his transfers and the only thing he came up with was to remove Hart, bring in Stones and ditch Yahya.

    By the looks of it, next season will be an even bigger disaster.
    He was given time but he needs time to work with the players . Also maybe he wanted to get rid of some of the players but a lot of the players are on big wages which other clubs can't afford so city are stuck with them.

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    i think he is brilliant. give him a couple of windows to get his team.


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  8. #8
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    Yes Guardiolas first season ever in England and he is over rated. And Mourinho who has managed in England for many years, spent a record 90 million on one player and is behind Guardiolas team in the league. So I wonder who is over rated.

    Pep willl adjust just needs time and I am sure in the summer he will get rid of some of the dead wood in the squad.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.h.a.k View Post
    Yes Guardiolas first season ever in England and he is over rated. And Mourinho who has managed in England for many years, spent a record 90 million on one player and is behind Guardiolas team in the league. So I wonder who is over rated.

    Pep willl adjust just needs time and I am sure in the summer he will get rid of some of the dead wood in the squad.
    How on earth a manager proven over several leagues is overrated compared to someone who enjoyed a purple patch once in life time because of the golden team(arguably one of the gretatest ever team in club football history) he has managed.Pep has gotten both his teams on a platter.He got a team of brilliant individuals with top notch team ethics. But for the likes of Messi, iniesta, xavi, busquets,Pep would not have won much.In bundesliga his mighty bayern was humiliated twice in consecutive year by both madrid and barca and now in premier league he looks like a man with zero hopes with city

    Mourinho came to Porto when they had finished 5th the previous season and the next season he had made them the European champions.He went on to Chelsea and made them win the PL title twice and left as Chelsea's most successful manager. He went to Inter and departed making them European champions.At Real, he had the president bringing in only high profile players and even though Mourinho tried to impress his style upon the squad,by looking the club history can say that he's is not prolific their but was vastly impressive

    Yes mou used money,but that was what needed. United have been using money for ages and no one blames Sir Alex for that.This is mou's first season with utd and you can easily see that the team has got a rythm now asth the mid stage then again i can say that this united team lacks some impact players but as a manager mourinho is light years ahead of insanely overrated pep

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    pep needs players with decent ability and good football brains.
    give him players like eidur gudjohnson and he will work wonders with them.
    at the moment he has got donkeys like otamendi and kolorov. the back 6 (stones apart) are woeful. they miss fernandinho too


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    Pep will be the fastest driver if you give him a Ferrari, but among the slowest if you give him a Corolla.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 16th January 2017 at 17:02.


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    Massively overrated. He was manager of the greatest club football team of all time, which had the GOAT player Messi hence why he won everything there. At Bayen, he did worse than his predecessors. And now in the PL, he is finally getting exposed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    i think he is brilliant. give him a couple of windows to get his team.
    by then he will drop out the window himself.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

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    Quote Originally Posted by PetroDollars View Post
    by then he will drop out the window himself.
    part of the reason i like him is he seems like the kind of guy who will not blame anybody and everybody else if he fails. he will take it on the chin.

    i think we must wait before making conclusions


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  15. #15
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    I think you should judge him by where City is when he leaves as apposed to 6 months in. He builds a team for the future not just right now.

    The OP is terrible by the way.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protea Fan View Post
    How on earth a manager proven over several leagues is overrated compared to someone who enjoyed a purple patch once in life time because of the golden team(arguably one of the gretatest ever team in club football history) he has managed.Pep has gotten both his teams on a platter.He got a team of brilliant individuals with top notch team ethics. But for the likes of Messi, iniesta, xavi, busquets,Pep would not have won much.
    Guardiola was not handed success with Barcelona on a platter. Instead, he was the mastermind behind their rise as the best team in the Europe at that time.

    He disposed off aging and unfit players like Ronaldinho, Zambrotta, Deco and Gudjohnsen, and gave Yaya a reduced role before shipping him off as well. He also brought in Dani Alves and promoted Busquets and Pedro from Barcelona B, and also brought Pique back from Man United.

    Most importantly, he took Messi from the RW and made him into a false 9, which meant that a breathtaking player evolved into a ruthless goal scoring machine.

    All of these changes were key to Barcelona's rise. He wasn't handed anything on the platter. Of course, having the best attacking talent of all time (Messi) and two all-time great midfielders (Xavi, Iniesta) greatly helped his cause, but he imposed his personality on the team and brought necessary changes which facilitated the incredible success.

    As far as his tenure with Bayern is concerned, yes, not being able to win the Champions League was a major failure.

    He has been a disappointment at Man City so far, but I am looking forward to see how he operates next season. A lot of the players that he has inherited are not cut to play his style of football. Aging players like Sagna, Zabaleta, Kompany, Fernando, Fernandinho, Yaya etc. are not Guardiola players.

    There will be a mass clear-out in the summer and we can expect some key signings that should fit his style of play like a glove, e.g. Gundogan.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Guardiola was not handed success with Barcelona on a platter. Instead, he was the mastermind behind their rise as the best team in the Europe at that time.

    He disposed off aging and unfit players like Ronaldinho, Zambrotta, Deco and Gudjohnsen, and gave Yaya a reduced role before shipping him off as well. He also brought in Dani Alves and promoted Busquets and Pedro from Barcelona B, and also brought Pique back from Man United.

    Most importantly, he took Messi from the RW and made him into a false 9, which meant that a breathtaking player evolved into a ruthless goal scoring machine.

    All of these changes were key to Barcelona's rise. He wasn't handed anything on the platter. Of course, having the best attacking talent of all time (Messi) and two all-time great midfielders (Xavi, Iniesta) greatly helped his cause, but he imposed his personality on the team and brought necessary changes which facilitated the incredible success.

    As far as his tenure with Bayern is concerned, yes, not being able to win the Champions League was a major failure.

    He has been a disappointment at Man City so far, but I am looking forward to see how he operates next season. A lot of the players that he has inherited are not cut to play his style of football. Aging players like Sagna, Zabaleta, Kompany, Fernando, Fernandinho, Yaya etc. are not Guardiola players.

    There will be a mass clear-out in the summer and we can expect some key signings that should fit his style of play like a glove, e.g. Gundogan.
    Before Guardiola took over Barcelona, the team had already won treble.Under Frank Rijkaard they had won two league titles and the Champion's League. Yes under pep the team did not dwindle down but that does not mean that he is a great coach. He maintained an already winning side quite well. But did he revolutionize anything?.....Hell no

    Gaurdiola can't change he's never had a plan B, unless you count rushing your tall defenders in the opposition box in the last minutes of the game to try and score a header

    He's only good at one specific style that requires specific the specific players. He can't pull it off otherwise...

    Well it's difference when you have players like Messi, Lewandowski or even Robben to pull some magic and different story when you have only.. Sterling

    I think part of the problem is that "tiki taka" has been figured out by many, people now know what you have to do to beat them, it's just comes down to whether they can execute it or not.

    Which is more difficult, building a team from scratch or managing a team that is already doing well? I guess that explain everything about Pep. He is certainly talented with his amazing management skills but he is not one among top managers in the history

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protea Fan View Post
    Before Guardiola took over Barcelona, the team had already won treble.Under Frank Rijkaard they had won two league titles and the Champion's League. Yes under pep the team did not dwindle down but that does not mean that he is a great coach. He maintained an already winning side quite well. But did he revolutionize anything?.....Hell no

    Gaurdiola can't change he's never had a plan B, unless you count rushing your tall defenders in the opposition box in the last minutes of the game to try and score a header

    He's only good at one specific style that requires specific the specific players. He can't pull it off otherwise...

    Well it's difference when you have players like Messi, Lewandowski or even Robben to pull some magic and different story when you have only.. Sterling

    I think part of the problem is that "tiki taka" has been figured out by many, people now know what you have to do to beat them, it's just comes down to whether they can execute it or not.

    Which is more difficult, building a team from scratch or managing a team that is already doing well? I guess that explain everything about Pep. He is certainly talented with his amazing management skills but he is not one among top managers in the history
    Barcelona didn't win the treble under Rijkaard; they did the double, i.e. they won La Liga and the Champions League in the 2004-2005 season.

    Barcelona were not a winning side when Guardiola took over. In the season before he took over, Barcelona finished third and were almost 20 points behind the champions Madrid, and did not win any trophy.

    In the 2006-2007 season, Barcelona lost La Liga from a winning position and got eliminated in the second round in the Champions League, as well as failed to win the Copa del Rey. Thus, another trophy-less season.

    So in short, they had two trophy-less seasons before Guardiola took over. What winning side are you referring to?

    Barcelona were in decline when he took over. As I said, they were almost 20 points behind Madrid in La Liga, but Guardiola made 5-6 key changes (which I highlighted in my previous post) that transformed their fortunes and enabled them to win the treble in 2008-2009.

    Guardiola deserves full credit for reviving Barcelona's fortunes and producing one of the all-time great teams the game has ever seen.

    Yes he has his shortcomings. At times, he is too stubborn and too eager to enforce his philosophy, but then again, that is what great managers do. He needs to realize that the current Man City squad is not cut for his playing style and he will will have to make major changes in the summer which I'm sure he will.

    Guardiola is one of the top managers in world football. Definitely in the top 3. He is not overrated by any means.

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    The rumours are that he will be given £250 million in the summer to improve the team. What manager can't buy success with that kind of money??


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    The rumours are that he will be given £250 million in the summer to improve the team. What manager can't buy success with that kind of money??
    hello my team have spent close to £500 m since fergie retired!!
    even rodgers spent £300m and just had that one season, ended up leaving liverpool same as where he started


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    The rumours are that he will be given £250 million in the summer to improve the team. What manager can't buy success with that kind of money??
    It depends who he buys. If he wastes money on overrated rubbish like Stones, he will keep struggling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    hello my team have spent close to £500 m since fergie retired!!
    even rodgers spent £300m and just had that one season, ended up leaving liverpool same as where he started
    Sure! But here they are talking of Man City spending £250 million in one transfer window. I don't think that much has ever been spent before in one time.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Any Manager spending £48mn for Sir Stones, should maintain a low profile - which Pep already has started - definitely he won't ask Stan who now. He has called back YaYa (still Rajola hasn't apologized), he'll now call Hart at Rome (who might not call him back) - I am sure, Company will suddenly become fit again. At the end of the season he'll offer Mansoor two propositions - another £250mn to buy me players or £50mn - your choice (that £50 is his P45 clause, if Mansoor is to sack him).

    Massively over rated Manager, who is proving every bit that Messi made Pep, not other way. In fact, each of that golden generation at Barca started career as teenager under Rijkaard. More or less, these are 30+ bunch now - started career La Masia de Can Planes centre around 2000 or later, where Rijkaard was in charge from 2003 to June 2008 - that's cool 5 years. What happens to be, all these players just entered their best age, when Pep took charge. I can categorically list every players that were between 21 to 25 in 2008 - and they started their barca career 5/6 years back.

    After Pep left, Tito had only one year in charge before his death - he has 35/6 W/L record with that team that won La Liga. Had Rijkaard been there, he would have bettered Pep's numbers in every aspect - so far Tito, Haynkes, Enrique & Pelegrni has proved that. For his fan, I can give Gerardo Martino - Pep is better than him. It's a nonsense to think that Pep had an aging squad at MCity - a squad that won EPL 2 seasons back, still one of the younger squads & he had open cheque book to bring players - he brought Bravo for Hart & blew 48mn for Stones


    This is not Spain that his one trick will work against butchers like Big Sam, or Poulis, or Koeman or Perdew - they won't allow him to play his own flute at own beat. And, this is not Spain, where referees keep one hand on card when Barca players are moving forward to attack.

    PS: He is a very good Manager to a extent that, he can be trusted to buy Mansoor another EPL with £500mn; which Allardyce, Poulis, Moyes, BRogers or Redknapp can't be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Sure! But here they are talking of Man City spending £250 million in one transfer window. I don't think that much has ever been spent before in one time.
    the squad does need reworking. i guess we can abuse him on the basis that he knew 12 months ago he was taking this job and the whole world thought he would be getting new full backs then but he didnt


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    Aguero/Silva/Toure/Zabaleta/Hart/Nasri/Kolarov/Sagna/Clichy/Navas all will be worried their head is on the chopping block.

    That's a lot of players to replace and some of the names City have been linked with:

    Aubameyang
    Grimaldo
    Weigl
    Van Dijk
    Laporte
    Jose Gaya
    Sessegnon
    William Carvalho
    Sanchez
    Ederson (GK)

    Now that's a lot of recycling to do and will bring it's own problems of settling in issues for players and the team gelling together. It may well not even be until the second half of next season or his final season in his contract that we see City become truly a Guardiola team.

    He seems stubborn though and some of his traits and watching City remind me of us under LVG last season, the only difference being they have a better attack then we did.

    He constantly mentions his teams are dominating games (with ball possession just like LVG would claim), he bemoans the fact his side miss chances and the other side score with their first attempt (as LVG would also bemoan) and he never diverts from his game plan. A lot of it is similar to us last season and when I think back on it, we also used to seem to concede with one of the few chances the other side used to have in games and Carragher hit the nail on the head the other day. He stated that Pep's team don't just give away chances, they give away big chances which will most likely than not lead to a goal, especially with a keeper in goal who has holes throughout his body.

    Pep hasn't adapted to the PL and that's going to be his major challenge because there will be no Messi/Xavi/Iniesta/Puyol who come through the ranks at City, there will be no Neuer/Boateng/Robben/Alonso/Vidal/Thiago players who would be willing to sign for City. This is his greatest challenge and he's struggling at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Barcelona didn't win the treble under Rijkaard; they did the double, i.e. they won La Liga and the Champions League in the 2004-2005 season.

    Barcelona were not a winning side when Guardiola took over. In the season before he took over, Barcelona finished third and were almost 20 points behind the champions Madrid, and did not win any trophy.

    In the 2006-2007 season, Barcelona lost La Liga from a winning position and got eliminated in the second round in the Champions League, as well as failed to win the Copa del Rey. Thus, another trophy-less season.

    So in short, they had two trophy-less seasons before Guardiola took over. What winning side are you referring to?

    Barcelona were in decline when he took over. As I said, they were almost 20 points behind Madrid in La Liga, but Guardiola made 5-6 key changes (which I highlighted in my previous post) that transformed their fortunes and enabled them to win the treble in 2008-2009.

    Guardiola deserves full credit for reviving Barcelona's fortunes and producing one of the all-time great teams the game has ever seen.

    Yes he has his shortcomings. At times, he is too stubborn and too eager to enforce his philosophy, but then again, that is what great managers do. He needs to realize that the current Man City squad is not cut for his playing style and he will will have to make major changes in the summer which I'm sure he will.

    Guardiola is one of the top managers in world football. Definitely in the top 3. He is not overrated by any means.
    Xavi,Iniesta,Messi,Valdes,Puyol,Marquez,Eto all were their in the squad that win champions league 2 years back before pep took charge and most of them hits their peaks at pep's period to make that barca invincibles

    It is a different proposition in an unfamiliar club or country - witness Luis enrique's problems at Roma and then his all conquering success back 'home' at Barcelona.Yes guardiola develops the chemistry between the team and himself and their is a reason why such huge players listening to him also, his tiki-taka has revolutionized the game in a period but guardiola has never under gone a transition phase or squad overhaul or redevelopment. Things were served on golden platter for Pep every now and then.But now he's struggling because you can't except same quality of players in city that has seen on barca or bayern

    So let's sum up.Pep Guardiola won all possible trophies when he was in Spain with a side that probably any manager would win all the trophies.Next he took over Bayern Munich after they won the treble. Let us say that the Champions League curse worked against him and he could not win the trophy in his first year. But he could not even reach the final for the last two years.His only sucess their is bundesliga title that even a Louis Van Gaal can won

    His first real test as a manager is in epl and we were witnessing the results.He is a person who sticks to his tactics which won't change with team to team.He believes in straight attack n attack which is not going to work on high competitive league.You can mark my post he is never going to be successful in epl

    Except his barca days he was never in the top managers spot..... for me not even in the top ten managers list....... if the term overrated really matches to someone in football world then its him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    the squad does need reworking. i guess we can abuse him on the basis that he knew 12 months ago he was taking this job and the whole world thought he would be getting new full backs then but he didnt
    The point is that if true with a budget of £250 million in one transfer window is to much. He would rightfully be expected to win the league if he is given that. If he cannot then indeed he is overrated.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    I hear many times that this is an aging MC squad, which encouraged me to spent some time. In this MC teams, following are the players (with age), including loaned players - mostly existing, few bought by Pep

    GK:
    Hart (29) - ENG No. 1
    Bravo (33) - Chile No. 1

    Back:
    Sagna (33) - French International, but not regular starter now
    Company (30) - Belgian Captain, one of world's best No. 4
    Zabaleta (32) - Arges starting RB
    Clichy (31) - French International LB, self retired, when he was starter
    Kolarov (31) - Serbian Captain & starting CB for a decade for them now
    Otamendi (28) - Arges starting CB
    Stones (22) - English starting CB & highest priced CB ever - 48mn BP, bought by Pep
    Mangala (25) - French International, but not regular, squad member; bought for 42mn BP

    Midfield:
    Fernando (29) - Brazil U20 International
    Starling (22) - English starting right winger, bought for 49mn BP
    Gündoğan (26) - German starter, bought for 29mn BP
    Navas (31) - Spanish International, but not regular starter now
    KDB (25) - Belgian starter, one of the best in world in his position, bought for 55mn BP
    Silva (31) - Spanish starter with 109 Internationals - still the best play maker in EPL with Hazard
    Sane (21) - German international & only reserve because there is Muellar - one of the most exciting young talents - bought by Pep for reported 38mn BP
    Delph (27) - English International, but not regular starter
    Farnandinho (31) - Brazil's starting DM for last 4/5 years
    Yaya (33) - one of the best ever box to box MF in EPL history, but now at 33 in decline - 15+ years of experience at highest level for Club & Country - got under Pep's skin, but proved to be too good for to keep his ego - had a bad match & Toffees showed Pep 4 times what is EPL
    Garcia (19) - exciting Spanish talent, represented Spain every level from U16 to U19
    Nasri (30) - French starting No. 10, before self exiling from National team at 26 - sent to Sevilla, where he is starting for them in CL

    Forward:
    Kun (28) - Arges starting No. 9, still the best man to partner Costa in 442 formation, EPL XI
    Jesus (19) - exciting Brazilian No. 9; one of world's best attacking talent - bought by Pep for undisclosed fee (around 27mn + add ons)
    Nolito (30) - Spanish International for last 2 years, late bloomer, but starter for last year in that LaRoja line up
    Bony (28) - Starting CF for Africa's best team - Ivory Coast
    Iheanacho (20) - already Nigerian starting CF, one of the very best African talents


    Now, I spent 35 minutes on Wiki, just to discuss if a Manager needs 250mn on top of this squad to win EPL, which is comfortably easier than La Liga (That's been hearing every time CR - Messi comes); what rate he should get?

    Please discuss, otherwise that 35 minutes will hurt me ..............
    Last edited by MMHS; 19th January 2017 at 00:24.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I hear many times that this is an aging MC squad, which encouraged me to spent some time. In this MC teams, following are the players (with age), including loaned players - mostly existing, few bought by Pep

    GK:
    Hart (29) - ENG No. 1
    Bravo (33) - Chile No. 1

    Back:
    Sagna (33) - French International, but not regular starter now
    Company (30) - Belgian Captain, one of world's best No. 4
    Zabaleta (32) - Arges starting RB
    Clichy (31) - French International LB, self retired, when he was starter
    Kolarov (31) - Serbian Captain & starting CB for a decade for them now
    Otamendi (28) - Arges starting CB
    Stones (22) - English starting CB & highest priced CB ever - 48mn BP, bought by Pep
    Mangala (25) - French International, but not regular, squad member; bought for 42mn BP

    Midfield:
    Fernando (29) - Brazil U20 International
    Starling (22) - English starting right winger, bought for 49mn BP
    Gündoğan (26) - German starter, bought for 29mn BP
    Navas (31) - Spanish International, but not regular starter now
    KDB (25) - Belgian starter, one of the best in world in his position, bought for 55mn BP
    Silva (31) - Spanish starter with 109 Internationals - still the best play maker in EPL with Hazard
    Sane (21) - German international & only reserve because there is Muellar - one of the most exciting young talents - bought by Pep for reported 38mn BP
    Delph (27) - English International, but not regular starter
    Farnandinho (31) - Brazil's starting DM for last 4/5 years
    Yaya (33) - one of the best ever box to box MF in EPL history, but now at 33 in decline - 15+ years of experience at highest level for Club & Country - got under Pep's skin, but proved to be too good for to keep his ego - had a bad match & Toffees showed Pep 4 times what is EPL
    Garcia (19) - exciting Spanish talent, represented Spain every level from U16 to U19
    Nasri (30) - French starting No. 10, before self exiling from National team at 26 - sent to Sevilla, where he is starting for them in CL

    Forward:
    Kun (28) - Arges starting No. 9, still the best man to partner Costa in 442 formation, EPL XI
    Jesus (19) - exciting Brazilian No. 9; one of world's best attacking talent - bought by Pep for undisclosed fee (around 27mn + add ons)
    Nolito (30) - Spanish International for last 2 years, late bloomer, but starter for last year in that LaRoja line up
    Bony (28) - Starting CF for Africa's best team - Ivory Coast
    Iheanacho (20) - already Nigerian starting CF, one of the very best African talents


    Now, I spent 35 minutes on Wiki, just to discuss if a Manager needs 250mn on top of this squad to win EPL, which is comfortably easier than La Liga (That's been hearing every time CR - Messi comes); what rate he should get?

    Please discuss, otherwise that 35 minutes will hurt me ..............
    My mistake - Nasri is 29 now ....

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I hear many times that this is an aging MC squad, which encouraged me to spent some time. In this MC teams, following are the players (with age), including loaned players - mostly existing, few bought by Pep

    GK:
    Hart (29) - ENG No. 1
    Bravo (33) - Chile No. 1

    Back:
    Sagna (33) - French International, but not regular starter now
    Company (30) - Belgian Captain, one of world's best No. 4
    Zabaleta (32) - Arges starting RB
    Clichy (31) - French International LB, self retired, when he was starter
    Kolarov (31) - Serbian Captain & starting CB for a decade for them now
    Otamendi (28) - Arges starting CB
    Stones (22) - English starting CB & highest priced CB ever - 48mn BP, bought by Pep
    Mangala (25) - French International, but not regular, squad member; bought for 42mn BP

    Midfield:
    Fernando (29) - Brazil U20 International
    Starling (22) - English starting right winger, bought for 49mn BP
    Gündoğan (26) - German starter, bought for 29mn BP
    Navas (31) - Spanish International, but not regular starter now
    KDB (25) - Belgian starter, one of the best in world in his position, bought for 55mn BP
    Silva (31) - Spanish starter with 109 Internationals - still the best play maker in EPL with Hazard
    Sane (21) - German international & only reserve because there is Muellar - one of the most exciting young talents - bought by Pep for reported 38mn BP
    Delph (27) - English International, but not regular starter
    Farnandinho (31) - Brazil's starting DM for last 4/5 years
    Yaya (33) - one of the best ever box to box MF in EPL history, but now at 33 in decline - 15+ years of experience at highest level for Club & Country - got under Pep's skin, but proved to be too good for to keep his ego - had a bad match & Toffees showed Pep 4 times what is EPL
    Garcia (19) - exciting Spanish talent, represented Spain every level from U16 to U19
    Nasri (30) - French starting No. 10, before self exiling from National team at 26 - sent to Sevilla, where he is starting for them in CL

    Forward:
    Kun (28) - Arges starting No. 9, still the best man to partner Costa in 442 formation, EPL XI
    Jesus (19) - exciting Brazilian No. 9; one of world's best attacking talent - bought by Pep for undisclosed fee (around 27mn + add ons)
    Nolito (30) - Spanish International for last 2 years, late bloomer, but starter for last year in that LaRoja line up
    Bony (28) - Starting CF for Africa's best team - Ivory Coast
    Iheanacho (20) - already Nigerian starting CF, one of the very best African talents


    Now, I spent 35 minutes on Wiki, just to discuss if a Manager needs 250mn on top of this squad to win EPL, which is comfortably easier than La Liga (That's been hearing every time CR - Messi comes); what rate he should get?

    Please discuss, otherwise that 35 minutes will hurt me ..............

    As you can see the full back are old and don't have the legs to get up and down the pitch. Pep needs the full backs to do that as he relies on the for width and to overlap the wingers. I think he may have wanted to ditch them in the summer but obviously there wages are high and not many teams will want to pay such wages.

    Yaya doesn't suit his style but with injuries in that area, he had no choice to recall him. He'll look to sign another cm in the summer who'll fit his philosophy.

    The team is old but more importantly most of the players don't fit his style, I'll judge him after next season.

  31. #31
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    @MMHS

    You answered your own queries. Firstly, Clichy was never first choice LB for France. Evra was always going to start the big tournaments, Clichy self-retired because not bothering with international at all was better than sitting on the bench for Evra in World Cups and Euros and not getting a minute.

    Same goes for Nasri, barring two months in 2010-11, he was been an average player and not good enough to hold a place in playing XI for France. His retirement was a reaction to getting axed.

    The defense is an aging one, and not sure how much of Kompany you have seen, but he has been of the most overrated CBs in the world, who is a good leader but has been found out against quality attackers time and time again. The number of times the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, van Persie etc. have done a number on him, let's not go there.

    Sagna is one of the best defenders of his generation, but as an Arsenal fan, I have seen more of him than most people here, and it has been 10 years. He is great defensively but terrible going forward. After all these years, he still can't dribble past a training cone or put in a half-decent cross.

    Clichy, Zabaleta, Kompany, Sagna. That is too much over the hill baggage in defense, and Mangala wasn't Pep's buy. Sure, he made a mistake with Stones and got caught in the hype, but he has always been prone to erroneous transfers. Can name 4-5 flops he has signed, if not more, but it can happen with any manager. If SAF can sign Bebe......

    Similarly, Yaya, Navas and Fernandinho don't have much gas left and they suit Pep's style of play.

    As I said, judge him after next season, because that is when he will have his own team because he will get rid of the Pellegrini and Mancini baggage in the summer.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    As you can see the full back are old and don't have the legs to get up and down the pitch. Pep needs the full backs to do that as he relies on the for width and to overlap the wingers. I think he may have wanted to ditch them in the summer but obviously there wages are high and not many teams will want to pay such wages.

    Yaya doesn't suit his style but with injuries in that area, he had no choice to recall him. He'll look to sign another cm in the summer who'll fit his philosophy.

    The team is old but more importantly most of the players don't fit his style, I'll judge him after next season.

    That's better way to tell - after spending another 250mn, he'll come in to contest to prove that he is really some thing ...........

    This aged squad, not my squad, not my style .... these are lame excuses - won't save his reputation much. When you go to a new club, you start to build on what it's there - gradually add on to that - being Pep Grdiola doesn't give you unique luxury to start with 500mn token. He was confirmed as MC manager about Dec 2015 - he had enough time & riches to buy his own players & Sheikh Mansoor doesn't bother for MC's wage bill - he bought Stones.

    Look what Klopp did at Anfield (I saw the Swansea match - FSG has paid him 7mn/year & scripted his explanation for us - the fan, so Klopp is trying to convince us why he doesn't need to change half of his squad, not even a LB. But, that guy maximize what little he had - this is after 10mn net positive in this window!!!! Take Conte - he is coming from Italy & Juve to a bottomless Mafia money bank - he could have easily said, these are rotten bunch, who nabbed their last boss - I need own players for my estyle, ala genius - he could have brought anyone - Pogba, Bonnuchhi, Cheliani, Barzagili, Dybala, Belloti .... and Chelsea is based on world's No. 1 Metro City - London; he just brought 2 serious player to fill his gap - Kante & Luiz.

    Pep has to grow up & take the bullet on chest - his Barca reputation won't put him even at par with Rafa or Simione ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    That's better way to tell - after spending another 250mn, he'll come in to contest to prove that he is really some thing ...........

    This aged squad, not my squad, not my style .... these are lame excuses - won't save his reputation much. When you go to a new club, you start to build on what it's there - gradually add on to that - being Pep Grdiola doesn't give you unique luxury to start with 500mn token. He was confirmed as MC manager about Dec 2015 - he had enough time & riches to buy his own players & Sheikh Mansoor doesn't bother for MC's wage bill - he bought Stones.

    Look what Klopp did at Anfield (I saw the Swansea match - FSG has paid him 7mn/year & scripted his explanation for us - the fan, so Klopp is trying to convince us why he doesn't need to change half of his squad, not even a LB. But, that guy maximize what little he had - this is after 10mn net positive in this window!!!! Take Conte - he is coming from Italy & Juve to a bottomless Mafia money bank - he could have easily said, these are rotten bunch, who nabbed their last boss - I need own players for my estyle, ala genius - he could have brought anyone - Pogba, Bonnuchhi, Cheliani, Barzagili, Dybala, Belloti .... and Chelsea is based on world's No. 1 Metro City - London; he just brought 2 serious player to fill his gap - Kante & Luiz.

    Pep has to grow up & take the bullet on chest - his Barca reputation won't put him even at par with Rafa or Simione ....

    In this modern era which manager doesn't spend money?

    You used Conte as an example, that team won the league the previous season it was never a bad team. It was issues they had with José which made them perform badly. Also loss of form of Hazard and Costa didn't help. See the results now they have returned to form.

    At Barcalona when he had a team that fitted his style, look at the results. Remember it's his 1st season in the premier league not every manager adapts straight away. He has tried to get the best out of these players but the full backs , the cms just aren't good enough and don't fit his style at all.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    @MMHS

    You answered your own queries. Firstly, Clichy was never first choice LB for France. Evra was always going to start the big tournaments, Clichy self-retired because not bothering with international at all was better than sitting on the bench for Evra in World Cups and Euros and not getting a minute.

    Same goes for Nasri, barring two months in 2010-11, he was been an average player and not good enough to hold a place in playing XI for France. His retirement was a reaction to getting axed.

    The defense is an aging one, and not sure how much of Kompany you have seen, but he has been of the most overrated CBs in the world, who is a good leader but has been found out against quality attackers time and time again. The number of times the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, van Persie etc. have done a number on him, let's not go there.

    Sagna is one of the best defenders of his generation, but as an Arsenal fan, I have seen more of him than most people here, and it has been 10 years. He is great defensively but terrible going forward. After all these years, he still can't dribble past a training cone or put in a half-decent cross.

    Clichy, Zabaleta, Kompany, Sagna. That is too much over the hill baggage in defense, and Mangala wasn't Pep's buy. Sure, he made a mistake with Stones and got caught in the hype, but he has always been prone to erroneous transfers. Can name 4-5 flops he has signed, if not more, but it can happen with any manager. If SAF can sign Bebe......

    Similarly, Yaya, Navas and Fernandinho don't have much gas left and they suit Pep's style of play.

    As I said, judge him after next season, because that is when he will have his own team because he will get rid of the Pellegrini and Mancini baggage in the summer.
    Does it answer - there is another lest back in that team - Kolarov And he was 29 when Pep took charge.

    More or less, for your entire post, I can only say that you don't need to be genius if you need 22 top International starters in your squad - that's a bit too much luxury. This MCity side has enough, more than enough not to be such headless chicken - then add to that another 200mn purchase by Pep. I can give you another clue - there is a reason, Bayern didn't extend his contract & went for Carlo - he is the highest paid manager in any sports $25mn; so, money wasn't the issue.

    Being a Liverpool Fan, you'll never ever see me writing anything against Sir Alex or Wenger, not even JoMou (I don't like his antics, neither his tactics to kill a game, but an outstanding manager who has Porto & Inter Milan to be proud of, in between the riches of Chelsea, Real & MU); but this guy will need to prove that he is better than one track pony. I am sure you have read my initial post on the glorious Barca generation that he almost created like 2nd God - which wasn't to be the case actually. So far his credit is to be at right place at right time - not masterminding something.

    I see lots of football, more than cricket definitely & I have seen enough of Kompany. But, I am not sure how much you have seen of him to think the most overrated CBs - here is a little piece from his Wiki profile

    Individual Honors
    Belgian Golden Shoe: 2004
    Belgian Young Professional Footballer of the Year: 2004, 2005
    Belgian Ebony Shoe: 2004, 2005
    Premier League Player of the Season: 2011–12
    Premier League PFA Team of the Year: 2010–11, 2011–12, 2013–14
    Manchester City Official Supporter's Player of the Year: 2010–11
    Manchester City Players' Player of the Year: 2010–11
    ESM Team of the Year: 2011–12[43]
    Alan Hardaker Trophy: 2016

    If this is for one of the most over rated CBs, can you realize - what benchmark your are setting for this gentleman to be one of top 3 in world?

    I'll still take that - if he can buy Mansoor another title with 500mn.

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    @MMHS pep has got a lot out of sterling,KDB,Kelachi,Fernandiniho. These guys have done well so it's not like he's totally relient on a chequebook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    @MMHS pep has got a lot out of sterling,KDB,Kelachi,Fernandiniho. These guys have done well so it's not like he's totally relient on a chequebook.
    He is not - one of the most potential Managers, who can finish among legends. But, one of 3 in world needs to be scrutinized properly, you know - great Managers are there for their philosophies, not for titles only.

    I am a Barca Fan as well (this is my biggest agony that CR played at MU in EPL & Real in Liga), but that Tiki Taka wasn't Pep's monopoly - it was actually brain child of Johan Cruyff; later Aregones & Del Bosce's team also adopted that formation as majority of that squad came from La Massia.

    Also, to develop in to that level of manager, Pep has to find alternatives from his system, a fall back strategy. I give a classic example - Italy lost to Ireland in 1994 WC 1st match. By 2nd match, they were down to 10 men within few minutes for a professional foul by GK - Italy had to win that match, or they were almost out - Sachhi took out Roberto Baggio!!!

    He later explained - Roberto is great ball player on 11 vs 11; but he is not a runner. I needed someone to run crazy for me & hit Norway in counter. Interestingly, his 2nd substitute was Captain Baressi - at half-time, by a sweeper back, to play as running libaro. Italy won that match - sounds easy, isn't it. Great managers find a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Does it answer - there is another lest back in that team - Kolarov And he was 29 when Pep took charge.

    More or less, for your entire post, I can only say that you don't need to be genius if you need 22 top International starters in your squad - that's a bit too much luxury. This MCity side has enough, more than enough not to be such headless chicken - then add to that another 200mn purchase by Pep. I can give you another clue - there is a reason, Bayern didn't extend his contract & went for Carlo - he is the highest paid manager in any sports $25mn; so, money wasn't the issue.

    Being a Liverpool Fan, you'll never ever see me writing anything against Sir Alex or Wenger, not even JoMou (I don't like his antics, neither his tactics to kill a game, but an outstanding manager who has Porto & Inter Milan to be proud of, in between the riches of Chelsea, Real & MU); but this guy will need to prove that he is better than one track pony. I am sure you have read my initial post on the glorious Barca generation that he almost created like 2nd God - which wasn't to be the case actually. So far his credit is to be at right place at right time - not masterminding something.

    I see lots of football, more than cricket definitely & I have seen enough of Kompany. But, I am not sure how much you have seen of him to think the most overrated CBs - here is a little piece from his Wiki profile

    Individual Honors
    Belgian Golden Shoe: 2004
    Belgian Young Professional Footballer of the Year: 2004, 2005
    Belgian Ebony Shoe: 2004, 2005
    Premier League Player of the Season: 2011–12
    Premier League PFA Team of the Year: 2010–11, 2011–12, 2013–14
    Manchester City Official Supporter's Player of the Year: 2010–11
    Manchester City Players' Player of the Year: 2010–11
    ESM Team of the Year: 2011–12[43]
    Alan Hardaker Trophy: 2016

    If this is for one of the most over rated CBs, can you realize - what benchmark your are setting for this gentleman to be one of top 3 in world?

    I'll still take that - if he can buy Mansoor another title with 500mn.
    Agreed, if Pep managed a national team where you can't spend 250mn pounds to get the team you want I shudder to think what might happen. Managers in general nowadays don't adapt to the team that they have and look to optimise it around their philosophy. This is one reason why LVG should be respected for what he achieved with Holland.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Does it answer - there is another lest back in that team - Kolarov And he was 29 when Pep took charge.

    More or less, for your entire post, I can only say that you don't need to be genius if you need 22 top International starters in your squad - that's a bit too much luxury. This MCity side has enough, more than enough not to be such headless chicken - then add to that another 200mn purchase by Pep. I can give you another clue - there is a reason, Bayern didn't extend his contract & went for Carlo - he is the highest paid manager in any sports $25mn; so, money wasn't the issue.

    Being a Liverpool Fan, you'll never ever see me writing anything against Sir Alex or Wenger, not even JoMou (I don't like his antics, neither his tactics to kill a game, but an outstanding manager who has Porto & Inter Milan to be proud of, in between the riches of Chelsea, Real & MU); but this guy will need to prove that he is better than one track pony. I am sure you have read my initial post on the glorious Barca generation that he almost created like 2nd God - which wasn't to be the case actually. So far his credit is to be at right place at right time - not masterminding something.

    I see lots of football, more than cricket definitely & I have seen enough of Kompany. But, I am not sure how much you have seen of him to think the most overrated CBs - here is a little piece from his Wiki profile

    Individual Honors
    Belgian Golden Shoe: 2004
    Belgian Young Professional Footballer of the Year: 2004, 2005
    Belgian Ebony Shoe: 2004, 2005
    Premier League Player of the Season: 2011–12
    Premier League PFA Team of the Year: 2010–11, 2011–12, 2013–14
    Manchester City Official Supporter's Player of the Year: 2010–11
    Manchester City Players' Player of the Year: 2010–11
    ESM Team of the Year: 2011–12[43]
    Alan Hardaker Trophy: 2016

    If this is for one of the most over rated CBs, can you realize - what benchmark your are setting for this gentleman to be one of top 3 in world?

    I'll still take that - if he can buy Mansoor another title with 500mn.
    Kolarov - 19, 29 or 39 - is not a Pep style full-back. He is lethal with the dead ball and puts in a good cross, but he doesn't add much to the game from open-play. Pep likes his full-backs to bomb up and down, and spend more than half of the time in the opposition half, but they must have the energy to to track-back pacy wingers. He went from electric LBs like Alba/Alaba to the likes of Kolarov and Clichy (who has the pace, but the game intelligence of Walcott, which is peanuts, and everyone on his team needs to be a footballer first), and one can ask Pep how much he missed Alves at Bayern even though he had the services of Lahm, an ATG and Rafinha, a very serviceable RB.

    Pep will surely sign 1-2 FBs this summer. He is already being linked with Bernat (A lighter version of Alba, whom he signed for Bayern from Valencia even though he had Alba), and he will give an arm and a leg for Bellerin if he can.

    As far as Kompany is concerned, overrated doesn't mean bad. Looks like you got the wrong impression from my post, but I will think twice or thrice before I call him one of the best CB in the world. Surely one of the best in the PL ( not even best there. Since you watch a lot of football, you should agree that Koscielny is a better CB than him) but not one of the best in the world.

    If one puts the PL propaganda aside, one can name 2-3 CBs better than him in the Italian league alone. Individuals honors do not always tell the whole story. Winning awards for Belgium back in 2004 and 2005 when they weren't even ranked in the top 40 does not mean tell me about his greatness. Belgium was a synonym for mediocrity in that era, and their talent boom happened in the 2010s. With players that Belgium have at their disposal today, Kompany will have to something special to stand out.

    Similarly, winning awards for Man City and featuring in PL Teams of the Years etc. does not justify. Man City is not one of the best teams in Europe and PL is well below La Liga when it comes to overall quality and well below Serie A when it comes to defensive qualities.

    PL is a hype machine. Being the captain/leader of a PL winning side doubles your stock. As a Liverpool fan, you can certainly relate to that and how Gerrard often slips under the radar (sorry for the pun) when compared to Lampard, who in truth was not even 65% the player Gerrard was.

    As an Arsenal fan, I feel the same about Koscielny today. He has been butchered for the Carling Cup 2011 Final mistake for years, but has operated at a very high level for 3-4 years now has been undoubtedly the most reliable CB in the country. However, as long as Arsenal continues to choke, he will not get the same recognition as Kompany in the media who has lifted the PL trophy twice in the last 5 years.

    From your post, I sense a lot of PL bias. Perhaps it is the reason why you look for any justification to put down Pep and rate Ronaldo (who gets booed in his own stadium) higher than Messi, because of the perception that Messi is a one trick pony who will fail in the PL, same league where much, much, much inferior players like Silva, Aguero, Torres, Mata, Cazorla, Michu etc. have come from Spain and thrived.

    It is easy to say that Pep has flopped at Manchester in spite of having 22 international stars, but on deeper inspection, one can see that almost 17-18 of these international stars are square pegs in round holes. Pep is himself the master of fitting square pegs in round holes. No other manager of his era has been as successful in switching the positions of the player and improving their output, but for that the players need to have certain qualities as well.

    You have made your mind up and I know you will not be convinced, but give Pep time. At least a couple of seasons. If he fails to win the PL or take Man City close to European glory, it will be clear that he is overrated. I have already acknowledged that failure to win the CL with Bayern was a major failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Kolarov - 19, 29 or 39 - is not a Pep style full-back. He is lethal with the dead ball and puts in a good cross, but he doesn't add much to the game from open-play. Pep likes his full-backs to bomb up and down, and spend more than half of the time in the opposition half, but they must have the energy to to track-back pacy wingers. He went from electric LBs like Alba/Alaba to the likes of Kolarov and Clichy (who has the pace, but the game intelligence of Walcott, which is peanuts, and everyone on his team needs to be a footballer first), and one can ask Pep how much he missed Alves at Bayern even though he had the services of Lahm, an ATG and Rafinha, a very serviceable RB.

    Pep will surely sign 1-2 FBs this summer. He is already being linked with Bernat (A lighter version of Alba, whom he signed for Bayern from Valencia even though he had Alba), and he will give an arm and a leg for Bellerin if he can.

    As far as Kompany is concerned, overrated doesn't mean bad. Looks like you got the wrong impression from my post, but I will think twice or thrice before I call him one of the best CB in the world. Surely one of the best in the PL ( not even best there. Since you watch a lot of football, you should agree that Koscielny is a better CB than him) but not one of the best in the world.

    If one puts the PL propaganda aside, one can name 2-3 CBs better than him in the Italian league alone. Individuals honors do not always tell the whole story. Winning awards for Belgium back in 2004 and 2005 when they weren't even ranked in the top 40 does not mean tell me about his greatness. Belgium was a synonym for mediocrity in that era, and their talent boom happened in the 2010s. With players that Belgium have at their disposal today, Kompany will have to something special to stand out.

    Similarly, winning awards for Man City and featuring in PL Teams of the Years etc. does not justify. Man City is not one of the best teams in Europe and PL is well below La Liga when it comes to overall quality and well below Serie A when it comes to defensive qualities.

    PL is a hype machine. Being the captain/leader of a PL winning side doubles your stock. As a Liverpool fan, you can certainly relate to that and how Gerrard often slips under the radar (sorry for the pun) when compared to Lampard, who in truth was not even 65% the player Gerrard was.

    As an Arsenal fan, I feel the same about Koscielny today. He has been butchered for the Carling Cup 2011 Final mistake for years, but has operated at a very high level for 3-4 years now has been undoubtedly the most reliable CB in the country. However, as long as Arsenal continues to choke, he will not get the same recognition as Kompany in the media who has lifted the PL trophy twice in the last 5 years.

    From your post, I sense a lot of PL bias. Perhaps it is the reason why you look for any justification to put down Pep and rate Ronaldo (who gets booed in his own stadium) higher than Messi, because of the perception that Messi is a one trick pony who will fail in the PL, same league where much, much, much inferior players like Silva, Aguero, Torres, Mata, Cazorla, Michu etc. have come from Spain and thrived.

    It is easy to say that Pep has flopped at Manchester in spite of having 22 international stars, but on deeper inspection, one can see that almost 17-18 of these international stars are square pegs in round holes. Pep is himself the master of fitting square pegs in round holes. No other manager of his era has been as successful in switching the positions of the player and improving their output, but for that the players need to have certain qualities as well.

    You have made your mind up and I know you will not be convinced, but give Pep time. At least a couple of seasons. If he fails to win the PL or take Man City close to European glory, it will be clear that he is overrated. I have already acknowledged that failure to win the CL with Bayern was a major failure.
    Well put and agree with you which I normally don't lol.
    No point debating with people who just don't like Pep so no matter what will put him down. Same people who hype Mourinho who spends and spends and look how great he doing. Peps first ever year in England and Mourinho who has spent so much and been in England for donkey years and still struggling but Mourinho is more superior. Mourinho is just a manager who can only spend and spend to get a team to start winning things. His time is over of parking the bus now.

    Give Pep till next season and he will get rid of the dead wood and get some players that will suit his style of play and then we see.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Kolarov - 19, 29 or 39 - is not a Pep style full-back. He is lethal with the dead ball and puts in a good cross, but he doesn't add much to the game from open-play. Pep likes his full-backs to bomb up and down, and spend more than half of the time in the opposition half, but they must have the energy to to track-back pacy wingers. He went from electric LBs like Alba/Alaba to the likes of Kolarov and Clichy (who has the pace, but the game intelligence of Walcott, which is peanuts, and everyone on his team needs to be a footballer first), and one can ask Pep how much he missed Alves at Bayern even though he had the services of Lahm, an ATG and Rafinha, a very serviceable RB.

    Pep will surely sign 1-2 FBs this summer. He is already being linked with Bernat (A lighter version of Alba, whom he signed for Bayern from Valencia even though he had Alba), and he will give an arm and a leg for Bellerin if he can.

    As far as Kompany is concerned, overrated doesn't mean bad. Looks like you got the wrong impression from my post, but I will think twice or thrice before I call him one of the best CB in the world. Surely one of the best in the PL ( not even best there. Since you watch a lot of football, you should agree that Koscielny is a better CB than him) but not one of the best in the world.

    If one puts the PL propaganda aside, one can name 2-3 CBs better than him in the Italian league alone. Individuals honors do not always tell the whole story. Winning awards for Belgium back in 2004 and 2005 when they weren't even ranked in the top 40 does not mean tell me about his greatness. Belgium was a synonym for mediocrity in that era, and their talent boom happened in the 2010s. With players that Belgium have at their disposal today, Kompany will have to something special to stand out.

    Similarly, winning awards for Man City and featuring in PL Teams of the Years etc. does not justify. Man City is not one of the best teams in Europe and PL is well below La Liga when it comes to overall quality and well below Serie A when it comes to defensive qualities.

    PL is a hype machine. Being the captain/leader of a PL winning side doubles your stock. As a Liverpool fan, you can certainly relate to that and how Gerrard often slips under the radar (sorry for the pun) when compared to Lampard, who in truth was not even 65% the player Gerrard was.

    As an Arsenal fan, I feel the same about Koscielny today. He has been butchered for the Carling Cup 2011 Final mistake for years, but has operated at a very high level for 3-4 years now has been undoubtedly the most reliable CB in the country. However, as long as Arsenal continues to choke, he will not get the same recognition as Kompany in the media who has lifted the PL trophy twice in the last 5 years.

    From your post, I sense a lot of PL bias. Perhaps it is the reason why you look for any justification to put down Pep and rate Ronaldo (who gets booed in his own stadium) higher than Messi, because of the perception that Messi is a one trick pony who will fail in the PL, same league where much, much, much inferior players like Silva, Aguero, Torres, Mata, Cazorla, Michu etc. have come from Spain and thrived.

    It is easy to say that Pep has flopped at Manchester in spite of having 22 international stars, but on deeper inspection, one can see that almost 17-18 of these international stars are square pegs in round holes. Pep is himself the master of fitting square pegs in round holes. No other manager of his era has been as successful in switching the positions of the player and improving their output, but for that the players need to have certain qualities as well.

    You have made your mind up and I know you will not be convinced, but give Pep time. At least a couple of seasons. If he fails to win the PL or take Man City close to European glory, it will be clear that he is overrated. I have already acknowledged that failure to win the CL with Bayern was a major failure.

    Fair enough - for the Pep part. Since you did mention his Bayern failure & I also believe he deserves couple of seasons to deliver. I didn't like his U turn with Yaya though - Yaya left Barca in 2010 for MCity, which Pep didn't like, he tried to settle score with him at MCity, which was uncalled for - Yaya did exactly the same thing Pep has done - serving for the highest bidder. Don't think, Pep joined MCity for the love of football.

    Kompany is a fantastic CB, when fit - you ask anyone'll tell that. It's Mansoor's money that kept him at City, otherwise he was destined for Real. If I am not wrong, both Barca & Real (& Bayern) tried for him several times between 2010-2013; sadly after that he was hardly fit ever. I am a French fan, you probably know - Konc'y had a good Euro & he is playing well now - at both's best, Kompany is at least twice the defender; but as I said, Kompany wasn't fit enough after 2013

    Personally, I think SG is highly over-rated, just because of being English & being the Talisman of most famous British club - his achievements are almost nothing. Besides, individually, I don't rate him close to some of the best mid-fielders of his time. I don't find any specific spot for him - he is just a great footballer with big heart - but he wasn't skilled enough to play as AM; wasn't fast enough to play at wings & he wasn't disciplined enough to play at the role he played most - Box to box MF.

    Regarding EPL, I actually think you try to down play EPL just from the vaunted ego that CR was successful in both league, Messi didn't play here. It's not only about the quality of EPL - at one point, for 4 years running, 3 EPL sides made CL SF, so that's not something to debate. I personally think, EPL has gone down several levels & probably at 3rd/4th now in world, simply because of lack of local talent. No league can survive with imports only, unless the core players are coming from home - in EPL, probably not even 35 English starts every week.

    The point is how tough it is for a player & Coach - it's damn tough, because more or less, it's the most competitive league, you slip once, even 20th team'll hurt you. & it's physically most demanding league, which takes lot out of players. Latest pun I fee from Messi fan is the taunt of Real supporters for CR - which shows the desperation, nothing else

    Pep is quite a good Manager - but he thought of himself too big; now media & critic won't spare him. If he can overcome that, he can return back to his glory - as of now, unless he makes CL football this year - Mansoor will sack him.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.h.a.k View Post
    Well put and agree with you which I normally don't lol.
    No point debating with people who just don't like Pep so no matter what will put him down. Same people who hype Mourinho who spends and spends and look how great he doing. Peps first ever year in England and Mourinho who has spent so much and been in England for donkey years and still struggling but Mourinho is more superior. Mourinho is just a manager who can only spend and spend to get a team to start winning things. His time is over of parking the bus now.

    Give Pep till next season and he will get rid of the dead wood and get some players that will suit his style of play and then we see.


    Porto[212]
    Primeira Liga: 2002–03, 2003–04
    Taça de Portugal: 2002–03
    Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
    UEFA Champions League: 2003–04
    UEFA Cup: 2002–03


    Chelsea[212]
    Premier League: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2014–15
    FA Cup: 2006–07
    Football League Cup: 2004–05, 2006–07, 2014–15
    FA Community Shield: 2005

    Internazionale[212]
    Serie A: 2008–09, 2009–10
    Coppa Italia: 2009–10
    Supercoppa Italiana: 2008
    UEFA Champions League: 2009–10

    Real Madrid[212]
    La Liga: 2011–12
    Copa del Rey: 2010–11
    Supercopa de España: 2012

    Manchester United[212]
    FA Community Shield: 2016

    Individual
    Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 2005[213]
    FIFA World Coach of the Year: 2010[9]
    IFFHS World's Best Club Coach: 2004,[214] 2005,[214] 2010,[214] 2012[214]
    Premier League Manager of the Year: 2004–05,[212] 2005–06,[212] 2014–15[212]
    Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2004,[212] January 2005,[212] March 2007,[212] August 2016[215]
    Serie A Manager of the Year: 2008–09,[216] 2009–10[217]
    Albo Panchina d'Oro: 2009–10[218]
    Miguel Muñoz Trophy: 2010–11,[219] 2011–12[220]
    UEFA Manager of the Year: 2002–03,[221] 2003–04[221]
    UEFA Team of the Year: 2003,[221] 2004,[221] 2005,[221] 2010[221]
    The 10 Greatest Coaches of the UEFA era[222]
    World Soccer Magazine World Manager of the Year: 2004,[223] 2005,[223] 2010[223]
    BBC Sports Personality of the Year Coach Award: 2005[224]
    La Gazzetta dello Sport Man of the Year: 2010[225]
    International Sports Press Association Best Manager in the World: 2010[226]
    Prémio Prestígio Fernando Soromenho: 2012[227]
    Football Extravaganza's League of Legends (2011)[228]
    Globe Soccer Awards Best Coach of the Year: 2012[229]
    Globe Soccer Awards Best Media Attraction in Football: 2012[230]
    Portuguese Coach of the Century: 2015[5]


    Pep part is fine - he deserves time to establish his style & thoughts. The topic of this thread is if he is over-rated or not. More or less everyone accepts that he needs more time to prove that he is not over-rated, which is fair enough. I like him lot, his football as well - but, won't reject the topic of this thread, unless proven other wise.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Porto[212]
    Primeira Liga: 2002–03, 2003–04
    Taça de Portugal: 2002–03
    Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
    UEFA Champions League: 2003–04
    UEFA Cup: 2002–03


    Chelsea[212]
    Premier League: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2014–15
    FA Cup: 2006–07
    Football League Cup: 2004–05, 2006–07, 2014–15
    FA Community Shield: 2005

    Internazionale[212]
    Serie A: 2008–09, 2009–10
    Coppa Italia: 2009–10
    Supercoppa Italiana: 2008
    UEFA Champions League: 2009–10

    Real Madrid[212]
    La Liga: 2011–12
    Copa del Rey: 2010–11
    Supercopa de España: 2012

    Manchester United[212]
    FA Community Shield: 2016

    Individual
    Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 2005[213]
    FIFA World Coach of the Year: 2010[9]
    IFFHS World's Best Club Coach: 2004,[214] 2005,[214] 2010,[214] 2012[214]
    Premier League Manager of the Year: 2004–05,[212] 2005–06,[212] 2014–15[212]
    Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2004,[212] January 2005,[212] March 2007,[212] August 2016[215]
    Serie A Manager of the Year: 2008–09,[216] 2009–10[217]
    Albo Panchina d'Oro: 2009–10[218]
    Miguel Muñoz Trophy: 2010–11,[219] 2011–12[220]
    UEFA Manager of the Year: 2002–03,[221] 2003–04[221]
    UEFA Team of the Year: 2003,[221] 2004,[221] 2005,[221] 2010[221]
    The 10 Greatest Coaches of the UEFA era[222]
    World Soccer Magazine World Manager of the Year: 2004,[223] 2005,[223] 2010[223]
    BBC Sports Personality of the Year Coach Award: 2005[224]
    La Gazzetta dello Sport Man of the Year: 2010[225]
    International Sports Press Association Best Manager in the World: 2010[226]
    Prémio Prestígio Fernando Soromenho: 2012[227]
    Football Extravaganza's League of Legends (2011)[228]
    Globe Soccer Awards Best Coach of the Year: 2012[229]
    Globe Soccer Awards Best Media Attraction in Football: 2012[230]
    Portuguese Coach of the Century: 2015[5]


    Pep part is fine - he deserves time to establish his style & thoughts. The topic of this thread is if he is over-rated or not. More or less everyone accepts that he needs more time to prove that he is not over-rated, which is fair enough. I like him lot, his football as well - but, won't reject the topic of this thread, unless proven other wise.
    Yes Mourinho is the best best manager ever because he won champions league and league titles with Porto. Same champions league in 2004 where Monaco made it to the final. Lucky win with Inter and he gets hailed as the best by you. Why hasn't he won it with Chelsea where he spent millions and millions the most money by any manager and couldn't win it with Real Madrid where he had the so called best player in world Ronaldo and top top squad. And same Madrid where he was getting outclassed by the same over rated manager Pep time and time again.

  43. #43
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    It's okay for Mourinho to spend £90 million on a player and struggle in the league and struggled last season which saw him lose his job but it's not ok for Pep in his first season in England ever to struggle a bit to adapt. Still Pep is ahead of United.

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    It's funny how this City team all of a sudden is average because Pep is struggling.

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    LOL Pep try to park bus against europe's best attacking force and get the treatment

    Overrated....?HELL yaaaaaaa

  46. #46
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    Definitely one of the greatest managers of all-time. He's not a good fit for an English club however.


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