Former cricketers slam PCB after suspension of Sharjeel Khan and Khalid Latif

[Ellipsism]

Karachi: Former cricketers on Friday slammed Pakistan Cricket Board after Sharjeel Khan and Khalid Latif were provisionally suspended on charges of corruption, saying that the latest development arose due to the wrong example set by the PCB by way of recalling tainted pacer Mohammad Amir to the national team.

Both Sharjeel and Khalid, who were representing Islamabad United in Pakistan Super League second edition in Dubai, were being sent back home by the Pakistan Cricket Board.

The Board said that the two players had been suspended as part of an ongoing investigation into an international syndicate which is believed to be attempting to corrupt the PSL which started on Thursday.

Former Test captain and batting great Javed Miandad said the latest corruption scandal had again damaged the image of Pakistan cricket.

"Only the Board is to blame for this mess. In a population of 20 million people, the Board insisted on recalling Muhammad Aamir to the national side as if they were no other talent available in the country,"
Miandad said.

"When you set such examples what do you expect from other players," he added.

Aamir was among three players, the other two being former captain Salman Butt and Muhammad Asif, who were all banned for five years in 2010 for spot-fixing while touring England.

While the Board is yet to recall Butt and Asif after they completed their five year bans in September 2015, it fast tracked the return of Aamir to the Pakistan team early last year insisting he had completed his punishment and was very young when banned for the spot-fixing scandal.

Miandad said that any cricketer could take one look at the dismissal of Sharjeel Khan in the first match for Islamabad United and make out he had deliberately thrown his wicket.

"What I am saying is a technical thing but when I saw him getting out it was obvious to me there was something wrong you don't get out in this fashion."

Sharjeel was caught in front of the stumps in the second over of the Islamabad innings.

Former Test captain Aamir Sohail and former Test opener Shoaib Muhammad also slammed the board for showing their weakness on dealing with corrupt players by allowing Aamir back into the national fold.

"It was a bad decision and it was bound to have repercussions. Once a player is involved in corruption there should be no leniency for him at all. Unfortunately in Pakistan cricket things have been swept under the carpet," Sohail, also a former chief selector, said.

"Look at some of the people involved in the PSL and with the board. No names but they have been serious allegations and inquiries made about them and fixing," he said.

Shoaib Muhammad said that this controversy would badly hit the credibility of the PSL.

"The PCB for long has avoided involving our legends who know the game inside out and with a clean track record obviously this is what will happen."

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....?client=safari

[Rayyman]

Statements are fine except for Javed Miandad. Javed of course can't keep his cool and makes an irrational statement. Although I agree that the shot Sharjeel played was sneaky.

[The_Odd_One]

If a ban of 5 years that deprived him of playing in 2 world cups, serving time in juvenile prison, and ultimate global humiliation could not stop these players from making the same mistake, then nothing else would.

[Indiafan]

If a ban of 5 years that deprived him of playing in 2 world cups, serving time in juvenile prison, and ultimate global humiliation could not stop these players from making the same mistake, then nothing else would.

In Pakistan he was treated as a hero after first 6 months and there was a countdown everyday for his return. People like Hafeez and Azhar who even showed doubt were the ones targeted for being jealous

[Sin Nombre]

Agree with Miandad. Precedent matters.

[The_Odd_One]

In Pakistan he was treated as a hero after first 6 months and there was a countdown everyday for his return. People like Hafeez and Azhar who even showed doubt were the ones targeted for being jealous

Nobody treated him like a hero. People had a soft spot for him because he was very young and it was the first incident of its type. That's why they wanted him to come back but ONLY after he had served his time.

If Sharjeel and Latif are guilty, then they should be punished according to the law and they should be eligible for selection after that. However, I would personally like to see them handed a life ban so they can't make a come back.

[srh]

In Pakistan he was treated as a hero after first 6 months and there was a countdown everyday for his return. People like Hafeez and Azhar who even showed doubt were the ones targeted for being jealous

This. Most Pak fans here were making fun of Hafeez and Azhar when they complain about Amir's return Its like most Pakistanis would side with a cheater instead of a honest person.

[Black Zero]

Statements are fine except for Javed Miandad. Javed of course can't keep his cool and makes an irrational statement. Although I agree that the shot Sharjeel played was sneaky.

What about Khalid Latif, who did not even play a game.
These experts are clueless and not so honest.

[The_Odd_One]

This. Most Pak fans here were making fun of Hafeez and Azhar when they complain about Amir's return Its like most Pakistanis would side with a cheater instead of a honest person.

Aamir had served his time. You can't punish someone twice. PCB should have given him a life ban but they did not. So, all Azhar and Hafeez did was acting like drama queens.

If my employer hires somebody who has just come back after spending a time in prison, I am nobody to throw tantrums about it. I am an employee, not the employer or the state.

[Syed1]

People taking out their frustration on Amir.

No justice system in the world allows for double punishment for the same crime.

Sorry this hurt you snow flake but that's the absolute truth. Amir is here to stay no matter how many hissy fits you throw.

[Madplayer]

Lol these are illogical statements nothing more.

Why didnt the life long banning of salman butt and asif set a precedent?? Why not look at their example too?

why just look at amir? The biggest reason why amir was back is that he was a teeager and supremely talent for his age. Nothing more than that. Asif was super talented as well but is gone forever now because his was older.

Fact is that there is something wrong in the heads of these players who indulge in such shady activities.

[The_Odd_One]

Lol these are illogical statements nothing more.

Why didnt the life long banning of salman butt and asif set a precedent?? Why not look at their example too?

why just look at amir? The biggest reason why amir was back is that he was a teeager and supremely talent for his age. Nothing more than that. Asif was super talented as well but is gone forever now because his was older.

Fact is that there is something wrong in the heads of these players who indulge in such shady activities.

Absolutely right. Sharjeel and Khalid are more in Asif/Butt category due to their age.

[Eagle_Eye]

Trust ex Pakistani cricketers to come out with irrelevant statements. Greed got the better of these 2, it's simple as that. Now they must suffere the consequences.

[Madplayer]

Absolutely right. Sharjeel and Khalid are more in Asif/Butt category due to their age.

True. Infact i would go as far as saying that PCB did what they had to in Amir's case but now even if teenage cricketers get indulged in corruption they wont be given any leeway. At least i expect this after the previous fiasco.

[arehaan]

Ridiculous statement to say the least. Going by Miandads logic any one who gets lbw is a fixer. Our media just needs masala that's what they are doing with these greats. Sharjeel did not play a reckless shot, didn't drop the first catch. I am not saying he is innocent but for heavens sake let the investigation unfold rather than just sitting on media and proving them guilty without any details. Too many media courts out there these days. Simply unnecessary and blaming Amir is just there frustration with pcb as they don't have any role in the current setup. Patience is a virtue strongly missing in our society. They put so much pressure even if players are innocent you will ensure they are proven guilty because media likes hot topics. This is what sells plenty of negativity

[Abdullah]

shocking statement about the sharjeel lbw. absolutely scandolous.
for all we know it could be for not reporting an approach.
every body has passed the guilty verdict for paid underperformance.
lets hope islamabad can field a team today

[waleed88]

Difference between Aamir and the others is the Pakistan establishment is backing Aamir in an organized way, he was smoothly transitioned into the side...given advertisements as soon as he came back, proper image building (visitng Army Public school, doing TV shows, asking for forgiveness), backed by Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis... most greats were in his favor to return.. he was also brought immediately into the side and given the spearhead role despite for England and all foreign tours..

There was a deliberate attempt by the top management of PCB to reduce Amir's ban, Najam Sethi in an interview said he tried to convince ICC to reduce his ban even in 2013..
The reason was Amir was a juvenile when he committed that offence, PCB has been pretty selective in not bringing in the other two.. their policy is clear and exceptional only to Amir the way I see it

[ask_analyse_act]

These experts are not involved in the money spinning T20 league. And pak media will score maximum out of these former players who do not actively take part in PSL to show their grudge against it making use of the current fixing allegations. What if is this wasn't broken out, will anybody feel sharjeel's wicket was doubtful and sneaky. It is like when the cat is out the mouse dances. Crazy, Pakistani cricketers and legends are cunning and very childish when u put a mic in front of them except a few.

[arehaan]

shocking statement about the sharjeel lbw. absolutely scandolous.
for all we know it could be for not reporting an approach.
every body has passed the guilty verdict for paid underperformance.
lets hope islamabad can field a team today

That's the only thing which is said there probably was an approach which didn't get reported. However this doesn't mean fixing happened. We all are just blasting the players without waiting for the investigation. Fixing is not always for money there could be other reasons as well. Don't wanna go in too much specifics but the point being these elements are dangerous and it takes lot of courage to stand up to them. By sending the players back pcb has send the right message and put this international syndicate on back foot as players are being monitored

[Rafay Shafiq]

I cannot reclaim my current official position if involved in corruption even if I jailed. This is what government service rules say. Amir is lucky.

[arehaan]

I cannot reclaim my current official position if involved in corruption even if I jailed. This is what government service rules say. Amir is lucky.

Well going by your logic all your democratic system is lucky. All of them are corrupt yet they keep coming back. T

Let's stick to cricket government rules in pak vary for different levels

[Shafi]

What about Khalid Latif, who did not even play a game.
These experts are clueless and not so honest.

Miandad is talking too much non-sence these days. PCB should ask from him a written statement with proof "what he did as a PCB director for the betterment of our cricket and got big salary."

[Syed1]

Miandad is talking too much non-sence these days. PCB should ask from him a written statement with proof "what he did as a PCB director for the betterment of our cricket and got big salary."

People hate on IK but whenever he comments on cricket his statements are a hundred times better than the garbage his counterpart Maindad spews

[Abdul]

Miandad was right on the money this time.

[MRSN]

Difference between Aamir and the others is the Pakistan establishment is backing Aamir in an organized way, he was smoothly transitioned into the side...given advertisements as soon as he came back, proper image building (visitng Army Public school, doing TV shows, asking for forgiveness), backed by Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis... most greats were in his favor to return.. he was also brought immediately into the side and given the spearhead role despite for England and all foreign tours..

There was a deliberate attempt by the top management of PCB to reduce Amir's ban, Najam Sethi in an interview said he tried to convince ICC to reduce his ban even in 2013..
The reason was Amir was a juvenile when he committed that offence, PCB has been pretty selective in not bringing in the other two.. their policy is clear and exceptional only to Amir the way I see it

Amir was an exception. I don't think it will ever repeat again.

[Indiafan]

Amir was an exception. I don't think it will ever repeat again.

Lol Asif was pardoned 3 times and might be pardoned a 4th time. Akhtar was pardoned after a life ban. Yeah exception, right

[Asif321]

should give life ban to all and please no more Salman and Asif

[EngrOmair]

Amir,Butt & Asif served their punishment , went through jail time after all the humiliation they are back in the cricketing circuit.

They have openly self potrayed themselves as culprits and tried to educate the following players to stay away from spot fixing.

I see many of them here now asking for life bans while when Amir was due to make comeback , all they wanted was to Amir getting some game time unfortunately he couldn't perform to expectations and now he is being thrashed.

Kahlid latif, Sharjeel Khan & Irfan all 3 might be or might not be culprits but the way PCB has handelled the situation is unprofessional. They should have investigated and then should have taken these actions, if at all even one of them is not involved what a shame it would be.

Seminars should be held to spread awareness among the youngsters but instead there are scuba diving sessions. Player Management is vital for teams now and Seniors should lead with example i believe but unfortunately our seniors are still in that phase where they need to cement their place as they are very inconsistent.

In my opinion we should wait for the verdict before reacting to it.

[Madplayer]

Lol Asif was pardoned 3 times and might be pardoned a 4th time. Akhtar was pardoned after a life ban. Yeah exception, right

Players have always and will always be forgiven for doping charges after they get punished. Fixing is different especially after the trio scandal.

[Indiafan]

Players have always and will always be forgiven for doping charges after they get punished. Fixing is different especially after the trio scandal.

Never heard of a player forgiven multiple doping charges plus one time arrest in Dubai. No one pardons serial offenders only first time ones

[Madplayer]

Never heard of a player forgiven multiple doping charges plus one time arrest in Dubai. No one pardons serial offenders only first time ones

Thats because nobody attempts it the second time apart from real men

[Indiafan]

People taking out their frustration on Amir.

No justice system in the world allows for double punishment for the same crime.

Sorry this hurt you snow flake but that's the absolute truth. Amir is here to stay no matter how many hissy fits you throw.

So convicted criminals can work at banks? Convicted paedos can work at schools again? A scandalous politician can get a UN appointment?

Your argument is completely illogical as not being selected in the international team is NOT A PUNISHMENT. Or else every player who toils but cannot be selected for international is being punished. Playing for your country is a privilege and not a right

I love how the mind works to defend people someone likes, makes up covulted reasoning and lies



Playing for your country is a privilege which can be taken away. Its a reward which can be denied you. Denying a reward to a tainted person is NOT a punishment

[sam_ahm]

What has the trio done? they have learnt their message, they are doing their best in respective competitions and playing clean cricket, why should they be blamed for things done by other players.

Shame on such ideology. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, don't blame the trio or the PCB for everything that goes wrong.

And you guys thought PSL will stop players from spot fixing / match fixing as they will be paid handsomely... what happened now?

[Mamoon]

Agree with what they are saying, but no need of looking too much into Sharjeel's dismissal.

Players do get out LBW, and it was a good delivery to a technically flawed player. I know he is exciting but the way some people are getting surprised over his dismissal is as if he's a mashup of Warner and de Kock, who cannot get out cheaply unless he is fixing.

[FreePalestine]

It seems like the players don't really trust the board to look after their careers. Apart from low salaries, ****** grounds and fake cricket balls, many top domestic performers don't even get consistent opportunities to perform internationally.

So cricketers will start losing faith with the system and then that will also encourage more of this type of fixing.

Also, we all know PCB are not angels themselves and there is a lot of corruption in their ranks as well. So... who's going to fix that?

[Pakpak]

It seems like the players don't really trust the board to look after their careers. Apart from low salaries, ****** grounds and fake cricket balls, many top domestic performers don't even get consistent opportunities to perform internationally.

So cricketers will start losing faith with the system and then that will also encourage more of this type of fixing.

Also, we all know PCB are not angels themselves and there is a lot of corruption in their ranks as well. So... who's going to fix that?

The 'patron' of the PCB is the PM, who is known to be corrupt and now looks like will be dismissed from his post and his entire family barred from politics. How can we expect a clean-cut run organisation?

[Shafi]

Agree with what they are saying, but no need of looking too much into Sharjeel's dismissal.

Players do get out LBW, and it was a good delivery to a technically flawed player. I know he is exciting but the way some people are getting surprised over his dismissal is as if he's a mashup of Warner and de Kock, who cannot get out cheaply unless he is fixing.

If Sharjeel come out clean he should sue Miandaud for accusing of throwing wicket

[Shafi]

So convicted criminals can work at banks? Convicted paedos can work at schools again? A scandalous politician can get a UN appointment?

Your argument is completely illogical as not being selected in the international team is NOT A PUNISHMENT. Or else every player who toils but cannot be selected for international is being punished. Playing for your country is a privilege and not a right

I love how the mind works to defend people someone likes, makes up covulted reasoning and lies



Playing for your country is a privilege which can be taken away. Its a reward which can be denied you. Denying a reward to a tainted person is NOT a punishment

So if PCB want to ban Amir, Asif and Butt, what excuse they have to make? They influenced Sharjeel and Khalid.

[GLORY OF '92]

Countless current and ex players had reservations but the saintly Amir had to play.

[cricketjoshila]

You cannot have fixers coming back to the national team.You cannot have Cricket boards asking the ICC to allow fixers to return to domestic cricket before the ban finishes so that he can striaght away play for national team after the ban.You cannot have fans hero worshipping a fixer.This is will mean that the next "Talented guy" will think "If he can be forgiven,why cant I".

[Mamoon]

If Sharjeel come out clean he should sue Miandaud for accusing of throwing wicket

He won't come out clean. He is guilty.

[Varun]

Amir,Butt & Asif served their punishment , went through jail time after all the humiliation they are back in the cricketing circuit.

They have openly self potrayed themselves as culprits and tried to educate the following players to stay away from spot fixing.

Can you say that with a straight face? Butt whined that he was being framed till the last drop, and Asif didn't care about life in any case. Neither of the two ever repented for their actions.

[Thomaskutty]

Pakistani fans have brought this upon themselves , don't blame Sharjeel. This was always going to happen after people rejoiced the return of Amir like t'was a long lost son.

[super hitter]

targeting Amir is baseless, he fixed during an age of 18 and was trapped in a way, its an immature age where you don't even look for the extra ordinary money if you're earning enough with cricket.

But these gents are above 30, useless for the nation, should be screwed to life ban and if the example wasn't set yesterday, it should be set today...

[Shafi]

He won't come out clean. He is guilty.

But how Miandad is a patriot being a PCB director, got million bucks and did nothing. Its like stealing money.
Both cases money involved. 1 get caught others did sneaky

[Shafi]

Countless current and ex players had reservations but the saintly Amir had to play.

So according to you Amir influenced them. Sharjeel is already 28 and 5 years ban will basically end his career.

[Varun]

Any statements from Mickey Arthur or the coaches about Sharjeel and this issue?

[hitthestump]

Don't see why Amir's name had to be brought into this? Like a 5 year ban and lifetime was somehow not an appropriate punishment or enough of a deterrent...in hindsight of course. Guys like Miandad will say anything to get the limelight for a while.

[90MPH]

So convicted criminals can work at banks? Convicted paedos can work at schools again? A scandalous politician can get a UN appointment?

Your argument is completely illogical as not being selected in the international team is NOT A PUNISHMENT. Or else every player who toils but cannot be selected for international is being punished. Playing for your country is a privilege and not a right

I love how the mind works to defend people someone likes, makes up covulted reasoning and lies



Playing for your country is a privilege which can be taken away. Its a reward which can be denied you. Denying a reward to a tainted person is NOT a punishment

Give it a rest, coming here with your ridiculous lectures about corruption as if India is totally clean.
There are hundreds of billions that have been stashed away by your own politicians in Swiss Bank accounts and still getting away with it.

The trio were punished and if corruption is still going on then it's because someone has either being stupid or naive to be falling for it or wants to do it.

Stop going on and on about something happened in a newspaper sting operation some 7 years ago. It's not as if yourn IPL is a clean tournament. Probably easier for bookies to prey on players as they are free to roam there.

[Indiafan]

Give it a rest, coming here with your ridiculous lectures about corruption as if India is totally clean.
There are hundreds of billions that have been stashed away by your own politicians in Swiss Bank accounts and still getting away with it.

The trio were punished and if corruption is still going on then it's because someone has either being stupid or naive to be falling for it or wants to do it.

Stop going on and on about something happened in a newspaper sting operation some 7 years ago. It's not as if yourn IPL is a clean tournament. Probably easier for bookies to prey on players as they are free to roam there.

Yep, the standard classic technique isnt it? I post because cricket is my favorite sport and it hurts to see it tarnished in anyway, even in IPL. Unlike with politics etc where we have almost given up, I still have faith in cricket as a sport

I will turn around and say the same thing, as long as you support corrupt cricketers because they are "talented", stop whining about corruption in your country or post in any politics threads or ever mention corruption in anything.

[The_Odd_One]

So convicted criminals can work at banks? Convicted paedos can work at schools again? A scandalous politician can get a UN appointment?

Your argument is completely illogical as not being selected in the international team is NOT A PUNISHMENT. Or else every player who toils but cannot be selected for international is being punished. Playing for your country is a privilege and not a right

I love how the mind works to defend people someone likes, makes up covulted reasoning and lies



Playing for your country is a privilege which can be taken away. Its a reward which can be denied you. Denying a reward to a tainted person is NOT a punishment

Well Azhar became an MPA in India.....

Once, one has completed their punishment, they are eligible to come back unless their punishment states otherwise.

[srh]

should give life ban to all and please no more Salman and Asif

and please no more Amir

[cricketjoshila]

Well Azhar became an MPA in India.....

Once, one has completed their punishment, they are eligible to come back unless their punishment states otherwise.

How is that related to Cricket?Corrupt politicians become a lot of things.Tony Blair lied to the British Parliament.Trump is the President.

[cricketjoshila]

Give it a rest, coming here with your ridiculous lectures about corruption as if India is totally clean.
There are hundreds of billions that have been stashed away by your own politicians in Swiss Bank accounts and still getting away with it.

The trio were punished and if corruption is still going on then it's because someone has either being stupid or naive to be falling for it or wants to do it.

Stop going on and on about something happened in a newspaper sting operation some 7 years ago. It's not as if yourn IPL is a clean tournament. Probably easier for bookies to prey on players as they are free to roam there.

What is the relation between politicians and Cricket?Politicians all over the world have had issues with corruption.Talk about cricket.

Whoever was ever caught fixing in India was never allowed to play for India again.Amir was given a very soft treatement by PCB.It may or may not have emboldened others to think that they too can get away with it.Soft approach to fixers cannot be totally dismissed as not being a reason for action of future fixers.

[The_Odd_One]

How is that related to Cricket?Corrupt politicians become a lot of things.Tony Blair lied to the British Parliament.Trump is the President.

Sorry my bad. Nothing wrong can happen in India.

[Abdul]

Qadir urges Prime Minister to cleanse PCB

ISLAMABAD - Former chief selector and leg spin wizard Abdul Qadir has lashed out at the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) high ups for double standards, holding them responsible for inflicting huge damages on Pakistan cricket.

Talking to The Nation on Saturday, Qadir said: “I salute Sarfraz Nawaz and strongly recommend his name for ‘pride of performance’, as he always speaks truth and warned two days prior to start of Pakistan Super League (PSL) that something big and shameful would be coming and everybody had now witnessed that the PSL is only two days old and Pakistan cricket is once again under heavy clouds.” He said people raised fingers on them (Sarfraz and Qadir), thinking that they were demanding something for themselves. “It is not true, but the matter of fact is that it hurts us when someone points fingers on Pakistan cricket or when media gets a chance to start spreading negativity against Pakistan cricket, so we, being former cricketers and Pakistan ambassadors, feel embarrassed. The PCB always has dual policies and sets different rules for different players. Had they implemented Supreme Court of Pakistan’s rulings and followed directives in true letter and spirit, today the things could have been far different.

“The PCB rules only apply on junior players, as they have adopted absolutely lenient policy when it comes to big guns. I want to know, why the board fails to comply with Justice Qayyum report, in which it was clearly directed to keep Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq Ahmed, Inzamam and Moin away from holding any office in the board, but no heed in this regard was paid. Only Salim Malik was handed over life-time ban, while others were let off the hook. Had the board given strict punishment to above mentioned persons, today the things could have been far better,” he added.

Qadir said the PCB still didn’t learn from their past mistakes. “M Aamir was given different treatment, while Salman Butt, M Asif and Danish Kaneria were left in the cold. Why such policy is being adopted and why not justice prevails in the board matters?”

Qadir said: “Pakistan is blessed with so many past heroes, who have rendered their entire lives serving Pakistan cricket. They have a very neat and clean reputation, and the PCB must take them onboard to ensure Pakistan cricket reputation not only remains intact but further enhance. Without taking strict and pragmatic steps, Pakistan cricket would continue to suffer.

“The PSL was a very good initiative and the players have started earning so much money, staying neat and clean, then why they choose to earn money through easier way and why they inflict heavy damages on national cause. The reason is very simple, as they have witnessed countless times that a player commits a blunder and after some time, he is given easy ride and path back to national team fold. Until and unless, the PCB gives exemplary punishments to real culprits and ban them for life, Pakistan cricket can’t be purified,” he added.

“I am surprised that whole world is raising fingers at Pakistan cricket but PCB patron Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is still unmoved. It is national and moral duty of PM Nawaz to immediately seek explanation from the PCB and order inquiry and culprits should be given exemplary punishments, as this is the only way of saving Pakistan cricket from further embarrassment and it will also give a clear message to other athletes as well, and nobody will ever try to think about doing so,” Qadir concluded.

http://nation.com.pk/sports/12-Feb-2...to-cleanse-pcb

[Misia]

Wasn't Ameer Sohail name also mentioned in qayum
report


Anyway the people that keep mentioning Azahr and Hafeez names regards Amir's return to team seem to forget somthing very vital. Yes the objected to Amir's return. They got there to cents worth publicity for apposing his return but then they didn't exactually stand bye there high standing morals and quit the national team (morals can't of been that high when ones own lively hood is at stake)


No disrespect to Azahr Ali or Mohammed Hafeez . In my eyes there stance was of no real consequence. What's point in believing in somthing if you will.not stand and fight for it. Did they can get there minds for there country's sake for there central contracts . We will never truly kno will we