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  1. #1
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    Ravi Ashwin, the greatest spinner to come out of India?

    I always rated Kumble very highly and think he is better, but Ashwin may have surpassed him arguably?

    Discuss.

  2. #2
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    Ashwin has surpassed Kumble easily.

    However that doesnt mean he is the best ever Indian spinner.

    They had a trio of great spinners in 70s who may arguably be better

  3. #3
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    Stunning performance in the 2nd Test vs AUS, it doesn't matter if it's in India because you're defined by how you respond when your back is against the wall; exceptional strength mentally. Always felt he was good but I respect him more now, has won me over with the character he has displayed

  4. #4
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    I would love to say yes but Kumble wasn't served absolute gems of pitches for spin (although he got a lot of help from umpires) and even Bhajji didn't get such pitches in his prime.

  5. #5
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    I'm starting to rate Jadeja higher than Ashwin.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Ashwin has surpassed Kumble easily.

    However that doesnt mean he is the best ever Indian spinner.

    They had a trio of great spinners in 70s who may arguably be better
    Well...we can't say he has surpassed already. He is in the right trajectory though.

    Kumble averaged 29 in the famous 2003 Aus series where no bowler from either side averaged below 30. Playing against the best of the best and doing stuff like that is special.

    I wish someone can do an accurate analysis of Subash Gupte vs Bedi vs Chandra vs Prasanna vs Kumble vs Bhajji vs Ashwin.

    Not stat analysis but quality of bowling analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Shaz bhai praising Ashwin? Now if Bilal bhai also praises Ashwin, it will be a day to remember for me on PP.
    Hehe.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  7. #7
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    Jadeja has been unbelievably good.

    The way he dries up the runs and gets through the overs so fast is insane....

    Absolute star


    Dazzling the stage, Ginga Bishonen. Shinpathy!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    I would love to say yes but Kumble wasn't served absolute gems of pitches for spin (although he got a lot of help from umpires) and even Bhajji didn't get such pitches in his prime.
    Apart from the two pitches in this series and another two against SA, don't think Ashwin has got more spin-friendly pitches than what Kumble/Bhajji were served.

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    Ashwin now fastest in the history of the game to have 25, 5 fors in 88 innings......


    "Everything else seems so superfluous." ~ Albert Einstein on the Bhagavad-Gita

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Shaz bhai praising Ashwin? Now if Bilal bhai also praises Ashwin, it will be a day to remember for me on PP.
    I love Leg spinners in general so I will never accept that Kumble is inferior given the career he had but I can't help but give Ashwin credit here, this is a stunning performance! plus it's easier for me to route for a bit of an underdog and he was in this match Great performance under immense pressure

  12. #12
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    Also, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy! Ashwin is a top top bloke

  13. #13
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    Kumble is better than him at this point.

    Don't forget that Ashwin is bowling at a time when most of the batsmen don't have a proper method to play spin.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Kumble is better than him at this point.

    Don't forget that Ashwin is bowling at a time when most of the batsmen don't have a proper method to play spin.
    Also DRS, he'd pluck these guys out left right & center on such helpful tracks, just see the day 1 of Chennai test 2004 & he was exceptional against much better players of spin.

  15. #15
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    Ashwin didn't have DRS till the England series and his home average was even better then.

    DRS has had no marked difference on his average.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Ashwin didn't have DRS till the England series and his home average was even better then.

    DRS has had no marked difference on his average.
    After DRS, since 2008 end basically, umpires are giving more LBW than ever before, simple fact DRS in a match or not, or do you deny that?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post

    Love this image and tweet! It feels like Rocky Balboa finally beating Ivan Drago despite being a heavy underdog, bah gawd what a moment! or when HBK returned to the E 4 years later after a careen ending back injury to win the world title; so beautiful, it's like the sought of show reel image which would end a feel good fairy tale like movie or when you make significant progress to getting it on with your crush that's what cricket feels like when you're at your best, I have felt immortal in the same fashion while in good nick on the pitch so I know what Ashwin is feeling right now
    Last edited by shaz619; 7th March 2017 at 12:12.

  18. #18
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    Sensational pic


    Dazzling the stage, Ginga Bishonen. Shinpathy!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    After DRS, since 2008 end basically, umpires are giving more LBW than ever before, simple fact DRS in a match or not, or do you deny that?
    I don't deny it but post Ashwin's debut, India started using DRS only from England series.

    Here are his stats WITHOUT DRS:

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling

    DRS has made absolutely no difference to Ashwin's numbers. If anything, his numbers are worse post DRS (but that's not because of DRS but due to other factors).


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I don't deny it but post Ashwin's debut, India started using DRS only from England series.

    Here are his stats WITHOUT DRS:

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling

    DRS has made absolutely no difference to Ashwin's numbers. If anything, his numbers are worse post DRS (but that's not because of DRS but due to other factors).
    And like I said, there are more lbw's given post 2008 than ever before. It doesn't matter whether India uses the DRS or not, it's the same umpires who are less conservative. In the days of Kumble they'd simply plonk the pad & unless it'd hit middle of middle they'd give the many benefits of doubt to the batter.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    And like I said, there are more lbw's given post 2008 than ever before. It doesn't matter whether India uses the DRS or not, it's the same umpires who are less conservative. In the days of Kumble they'd simply plonk the pad & unless it'd hit middle of middle they'd give the many benefits of doubt to the batter.
    There were lots of lbws in 90s and 00s era too.

    The spinners of 60s and 70s had a big disadvantage with umpires not giving lots of lbw.

    In Kumble's era, you can't plonk the pad and expect to be not out. Kumble has taken tons of lbw with the ball hitting on the front leg.

    The area where Kumble had disadvantage was that he bowled to better players of spin. 90s India pitches were tough to bat too and there were dud players amongst quality ones too but overall he bowled to better players of spin than this era.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  22. #22
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    How were the home pitches during the spin quartet era?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    How were the home pitches during the spin quartet era?
    Probably similar, but 4 spinners meant no one got too many wickets.

  24. #24
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    Jadaja is the one who is more valuable right now. Ash leaks too many runs. Today also he was 32/1 in 6 overs. He was bowling negative line to warner who was kicking out his delivies. The only way he can get a wicket with that is the batsman playing a false shot. When he returned to around the wicket to left hander he got warner first ball.

    He tries too many things and he can be easily scored of because he bowls a badball by trying to do different things

  25. #25
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    has to do something away from these ridiculous wickets first.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    has to do something away from these ridiculous wickets first.
    Apparently 200 of his 267 wickets have come at home, not sure that's accurate.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Apparently 200 of his 267 wickets have come at home, not sure that's accurate.
    Bit hard to call him the best spinner to come out of India. Maybe the best spinner in India.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Apparently 200 of his 267 wickets have come at home, not sure that's accurate.
    Yes its true.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    has to do something away from these ridiculous wickets first.
    I agree he has to do something of note in aus, eng, sa, nz.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Probably similar, but 4 spinners meant no one got too many wickets.
    I doubt pitches were that bad, they were so many draw matches, back in 60s/70s. You cannot draw too many matches on these kind of wickets, pick a random dude from the crowd, he will spin the ball too...

    The same Indian fans were after Ashwin, as soon as wickets get little flat and he looses bite, they debate, even Jadu is better than Ashwin

    As I said many times, let him perform outside of these extra ordinary spin friendly pitches, then we can measure the true worth of the man!!


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    I doubt pitches were that bad, they were so many draw matches, back in 60s/70s. You cannot draw too many matches on these kind of wickets, pick a random dude from the crowd, he will spin the ball too...

    The same Indian fans were after Ashwin, as soon as wickets get little flat and he looses bite, they debate, even Jadu is better than Ashwin

    As I said many times, let him perform outside of these extra ordinary spin friendly pitches, then we can measure the true worth of the man!!
    He has done brilliant in SL and WI. However, he certainly need to do well overseas vs a quality side to prove his worth.

  32. #32
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    @shaz619 certainly gonna go pass Kumble as greatest ever spinner in India. But needs to do more outside Asia to become the GOAT

  33. #33
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    Think performing "out of India" would be good as well.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  34. #34
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    So far, Ashwin has been unplayable in 3 countries and poor in Australia.

    Hasn't played enough in any other country to be judged as a spinner. We need to give him time, all these claims are not needed right now, as there can't be an answer to it.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak_Fan View Post
    So far, Ashwin has been unplayable in 3 countries and poor in Australia.

    Hasn't played enough in any other country to be judged as a spinner. We need to give him time, all these claims are not needed right now, as there can't be an answer to it.
    What is clear that he has set the bar high for himself so he will be judged accordingly


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    What is clear that he has set the bar high for himself so he will be judged accordingly
    I don't think he will be effective in flat wickets. He is not patient enough if nothing is happening in the wicket. He tries too many things, leaks runs and gives up easily from what i see of his body language.

    He is not a fighter in kumble mould but very effective in suitable conditions

  37. #37
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    Have some patience. We will get to know where he stands when he returns to full flight.

    Right now he is like a faulty tubelight.

    Shines bright for a while before flickering. Luckily he isn't playing any overseas tours now.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  38. #38
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    Overseas matters

    At home,even Jaddu is very close


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  39. #39
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    Seeing that Jadeja is no.2 in the rankings, should we call him the 2nd best spinner India has produced?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Yes its true.
    That's a bit sad,about 50 of those will be vs WI and the last tour of SL. I think he has done enough to be picked consistently overseas though.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    That's a bit sad,about 50 of those will be vs WI and the last tour of SL. I think he has done enough to be picked consistently overseas though.
    Yeah but he can only play with what's in front of him.

    Last Aus tour, in the 3 tests he played, as average as he may have been, he was still the highest wicket taker along with Hazlewood and Shami. Ashwin bowled one innings lesser than Hazlewood and Shami played 1 game lesser than either of them. Lyon got 1 wicket lesser than the 3 of them.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post

    Lol is this pic heavily edited

    Even English stadiums don't have grass this green

  43. #43
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    Did kumble enjoyed bowling in such friendly pitches invariably

    These were the kind of wickets makes even Dane piedt and simon harmer ferocious

    I rate jadeja more,he is far menacing,the way he literally win india on a flat deck against england is just outrageous .....i doub't ashwin never ever had something like

  44. #44
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    Jadeja has outbowled him in this home season.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I always rated Kumble very highly and think he is better, but Ashwin may have surpassed him arguably?

    Discuss.
    No way Is Ashwin better than Kumble, Kumble played against some of the finest batsmen in World Cricket and came out like a champ. Ashwin is good but not in the same league as Kumble yet.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    @shaz619 certainly gonna go pass Kumble as greatest ever spinner in India. But needs to do more outside Asia to become the GOAT
    It is highly likely and I agree with that but in this moment am just appreciating the character he has shown to bounce back, the AUS will not recover from this loss with him bowling in such a fashion, has found his mojo again
    Last edited by shaz619; 7th March 2017 at 15:59.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Lol is this pic heavily edited

    Even English stadiums don't have grass this green
    It probably is

  48. #48
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    Ashwin is going to bounce back, he always responds when his back is against the wall; there will be some assistance on day 5 through expect him to run through the Aussie team

  49. #49
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    Currently he is bowling in India. When he comes out of India we will see...

  50. #50
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    He truly Deserved the spanking he's getting from Australia. Ppl have hyped him to the moon unnecessarily. Certainly not better than bhajji.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRay View Post
    He truly Deserved the spanking he's getting from Australia. Ppl have hyped him to the moon unnecessarily. Certainly not better than bhajji.
    Think he is better then that chucker, but Kumble is better

  52. #52
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    Very disappointed in Ashwin, after his stellar performance in the past Test he had a bad game. He will perform when it counts though, he relishes a challenge.

  53. #53
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    He'll be back with a bang.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Very disappointed in Ashwin, after his stellar performance in the past Test he had a bad game. He will perform when it counts though, he relishes a challenge.
    There was a challenge yesterday and he didn't perform!

  55. #55
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    Definitely a bit dissapointed in Ashwin , i won't write him off yet , he definitely is a smart cricketing brain and I do expect him to bounce back.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Lol is this pic heavily edited

    Even English stadiums don't have grass this green
    High contrast. But still Chinnaswamy has good ground water facility and also the new system.

  57. #57
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    The problem is when he is not fit enough why should he be picked? Fitness doesn't apply to only fast bowlers (Mohammed Shami). Even spinners need to be focused and have to bowl long spells & keep penetrating with maximum concentration & body support as well. Why not try a newcomer like Krunal and puzzle up Aussies? I don't mind Ashwin being dropped/rested in the next match (even though they may again be tempted to play him because its a decisive match) Let's hope Shami plays in this match and strengthen our bowling!

  58. #58
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    If only Murali was bowling with Jadeja, the match would have been won.


    Dazzling the stage, Ginga Bishonen. Shinpathy!

  59. #59
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    No, If a spinner can't take wicket on 5th day, he wouldn't be called the best spinner to come out of India. Samething happened in SA, where on 5th day, he couldn't get a wicket if memory serves me right.

    It was a good series for Reality Check. Stats always dont show whole picture.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He'll be back with a bang.
    Just needs some walking wickets of spin and a turner.


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  61. #61
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    Not among the top three spinners to come out of India or the top 15 spinners to come out of Asia. Overall, a decent spinner solely because of his success on the rank-turners in India.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  62. #62
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    Everyone should get off his back now that the myths have been busted and all the people calling him an ATG and the "Bowling Bradman" have been left red-faced. Hope he does well from here on out and his fans keep a more realistic perspective. Apologies if any feelings have been hurt.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Everyone should get off his back now that the myths have been busted and all the people calling him an ATG and the "Bowling Bradman" have been left red-faced. Hope he does well from here on out and his fans keep a more realistic perspective. Apologies if any feelings have been hurt.
    No, all that has happened is that is only produced one match winning innings out of 6 because of an injury and being out of form. If he gets some rest through the IPL, he will be back like before in the CT and the tests afterwards.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    No, all that has happened is that is only produced one match winning innings out of 6 because of an injury and being out of form. If he gets some rest through the IPL, he will be back like before in the CT and the tests afterwards.
    No amount of rest will grant him success Australia, England, New Zealand or South Africa. Why are you still arguing here? Everyone agrees he's a decent/good-ish spinner but no one is calling him an ATG any longer. Surely you don't either.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    No amount of rest will grant him success Australia, England, New Zealand or South Africa. Why are you still arguing here? Everyone agrees he's a decent/good-ish spinner but no one is calling him an ATG any longer. Surely you don't either.
    Have you seen him bowl in WI or against New Zealand? If he bowls like that, he is going to be picking up a bucketload of wickets overseas next year.

    "Everyone agrees he's a decent/good-ish spinner but no one is calling him an ATG any longer."

    Because of 5 innings? Warne, Murali, Sachin, Marshall, McGrath etc have all failed for 5 innings before.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Have you seen him bowl in WI or against New Zealand? If he bowls like that, he is going to be picking up a bucketload of wickets overseas next year.

    "Everyone agrees he's a decent/good-ish spinner but no one is calling him an ATG any longer."

    Because of 5 innings? Warne, Murali, Sachin, Marshall, McGrath etc have all failed for 5 innings before.
    Ridiculous. Maharaj, a no-name newb just ate New Zealand alive in their own backyard. They are not a good batting team against spin, especially after McCullum's departure. Ashwin bullying them at home is nothing special. Again, doing well in the West Indies should be a given for any decent spinner not proof of someone's greatness.

    Warne et all had superb performances all over the world to back them up when they went through a lean patch. Ashwin has nothing but two hundred cheap wickets on the rank-turners of India. This is exactly the kind of mentality and attitude that earns Ashwin ridicule from all quarters. He's nothing more than a decent spinner, you need to get out of your fantasy land and accept that he will never be as good as Kumble and Bhajjan, forget Warne and Murali.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Ridiculous. Maharaj, a no-name newb just ate New Zealand alive in their own backyard. They are not a good batting team against spin, especially after McCullum's departure. Ashwin bullying them at home is nothing special. Again, doing well in the West Indies should be a given for any decent spinner not proof of someone's greatness.

    Warne et all had superb performances all over the world to back them up when they went through a lean patch. Ashwin has nothing but two hundred cheap wickets on the rank-turners of India. This is exactly the kind of mentality and attitude that earns Ashwin ridicule from all quarters. He's nothing more than a decent spinner, you need to get out of your fantasy land and accept that he will never be as good as Kumble and Bhajjan, forget Warne and Murali.
    I asked if you watched him bowl or not in those series. If you had, you would know that he would do well no matter who he was facing. Instead of focusing on teams or stats, why don't you actually watch the match for a change?

    "rank-turners of India"

    India has produced 2 rank turners in the last 5 years.

  68. #68
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    Ashwin is a decent bowler , I'd rate him on par with Bhajji but Kumble is miles ahead , the variation and cricketing mind that Kumble had, it's hard to replicate that.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    I asked if you watched him bowl or not in those series. If you had, you would know that he would do well no matter who he was facing. Instead of focusing on teams or stats, why don't you actually watch the match for a change?

    "rank-turners of India"

    India has produced 2 rank turners in the last 5 years.
    I did watch him bowl against New Zealand, unlike you who is so blinded by the "Bowling Bradman", it was clear that he displayed nothing which suggests that he would do any better in the four countries previously mentioned. If he had the skills to do well overseas, he would have done well overseas but he hasn't so he doesn't. Understand this.

    Mohali, Nagpur and the pitches for the first two tests in the current series. These four are the matches I watched myself and I'm sure I might have missed one or two more.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  70. #70
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    For me he is the best spinner from Asia already. Murali wasnt a bowler but a javelin thrower so i think Ashwin is the Asian GOAT @shaz619

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    For me he is the best spinner from Asia already. Murali wasnt a bowler but a javelin thrower so i think Ashwin is the Asian GOAT @shaz619
    Javelin thrower?! show some respect!! although It has to be said, Ashwin hasn't even peaked yet and achieved a fair amount; his value to India can not be denied


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  72. #72
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    Opinions change after every inning here.

    After 1st Test, Ashwin is useless and cannot bowl even on spin friendly wickets.

    After 2nd Test 2nd innings, Ashwin is a Top class bowler and there never was any doubt.

    After 3rd Test, Ashwin is a big average bowler without conditions assisting him.

    Waiting for peoples opinion after 4th Test.

    Fact is, Ashwin is one of the best who has not been at his best since England series. He bowled way too many overs in the past 6months and he is clearly carrying an injury. He needs rest.

  73. #73
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    Ashwin is in top 3 from India , no doubt

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    For me he is the best spinner from Asia already. Murali wasnt a bowler but a javelin thrower so i think Ashwin is the Asian GOAT @shaz619
    Even if you bizarrely choose to exclude Murali as a contender for Asian GOAT spinner, surely Jadeja easily clinches the Asian GOAT title ahead of Ashwin. I may have missed some others, but between these two, Jadeja is clearly the superior bowler, while both are decent-ish batsmen.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 21st March 2017 at 23:47.


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  75. #75
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    Jadeja has basically out-bowled Ashwin in India for the most part, while his outside Asia stats are also less appalling than Ashwin's.


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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad10 View Post
    Even if you bizarrely choose to exclude Murali as a contender for Asian GOAT spinner, surely Jadeja easily clinches the Asian GOAT title ahead of Ashwin. I may have missed some others, but between these two, Jadeja is clearly the superior bowler, while both are decent-ish batsmen.
    Laughable that he went from Murali all the way to Ashwin, skipping everyone from Qadir to Saqlain to Herath along the way.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  77. #77
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    He might be hurt .... just might be !!!!!!

  78. #78
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    kumble..

  79. #79
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    He is injured and bowling and batting at his worst, spare the lad, hope he skips IPL

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    I would put at least Kumble ahead of him. Kumble has one of the best records by a visiting spinner in Australia, only Saqlain and Herath rival him in Australia and Kumble played many more series than them.


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