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  1. #1
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    Pakistan's Top 3 Airports To Be Given on Lease to Chinese Companies

    Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore Airports to be given on leaser to China. Yeh poora Pakistan kab lease per dene ka irada he to China?




    Last edited by Muhammad10; 15th March 2017 at 14:34.

  2. #2
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    Lol what is happening

    The pertinent question now would be which public organizations are not under Chinese control now

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    What is the remit of these companies once they take on the leases? What is it they are going to do exactly?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  4. #4
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    Karachi airport has been mortgaged thrice earlier for loans too.




    Last edited by Muhammad10; 15th March 2017 at 15:07.

  5. #5
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    Poora mulk baich dalo... kha kha ke nahi thaktay yeh Nooray.


    Sath sath phushtoo ke barabar chori karli hai leken phir bhi aur khana hai


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  6. #6
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    Giving Airports on Lease? So are Chinese allowed to control the Air Traffic and Passenger control?

    China slowly spreading its tentacles around Pakistan.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Giving Airports on Lease? So are Chinese allowed to control the Air Traffic and Passenger control?

    China slowly spreading its tentacles around Pakistan.
    Maybe you should wait to find out what the lease term entails before jumping the gun.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Maybe you should wait to find out what the lease term entails before jumping the gun.
    I am pretty sure the Lease is not to clean the Airports

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    I am pretty sure the Lease is not to clean the Airports
    Actually the contract to clean Karachi is also given to a Chinese company now the Chinese will soon be cleaning streets in Karachi...

    Chinese company to lift garbage in Karachi

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1297718


    Before a few months Pakistan Stock Exchange (PSX) sold 40 percent strategic shares to Chinese.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  10. #10
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    What a travesty. Hate this Govt. This simulacrum of democracy that we have is worse than dictatorship.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    What a travesty. Hate this Govt. This simulacrum of democracy that we have is worse than dictatorship.
    What's the problem? Do you not want things to be run better.

    If Pakistani companies were capable of doing a good job then why didn't they enter the fray earlier?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    What's the problem? Do you not want things to be run better.

    If Pakistani companies were capable of doing a good job then why didn't they enter the fray earlier?
    What's the problem? Seriously? In fact, what problems do we NOT have? This Govt. has solely focused on bringing down its opponents and using its power negatively. Things have gotten worse instead of getting better. Pakistan was better off with PPP even though they themselves are not much better.

  13. #13
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    the problem for those who don't understand the economic issue here is that when you outsource like this, a Chinese company would not take on the contract if it weren't assured of a good profit. that means there is money that will be leaving pakistan to a Chinese company.

    the reason that is bad is because it drains the country further of mid term and long term gernerative economic value, where there is already a huge shortage of funds, taxes, employment - this is another chunk that will be gone.

    the second reason it is bad is that these are basic utilities a country should have developed the competence to operate and operate efficiently - the fact that they have failed to do this to the degree that they view it more advantagous to lease out/outsource ir proof of gross incompetence and the under utilisation of assets.

    the third reason this is bad is that if the Chinese will be extracting profitability, that money to make the profits comes fro somewhere. either it comes from the government in terms of guarantees - which drains the treasury = bad for Pakistanis, or it comes from airliners which means prices go up for passengers = bad for Pakistanis. this essentially means that the public give money to the Chinese for the same service, or a better version of it, which should have been provided by their own country, so that all the profits would remain in the country and be utilised there.

    the incentive for doing it at all then, would be for the government to receive an upfront fee from the Chinese, even though this will be less than the value of the assets (so that the Chinese will have a return on investment) - and this will allow the government to pretend they are making more money than they really are, and it will allow them to pay off near term bond payments whilst the foreign exchange reserves are dwindling.

    they are prostituting the country again, and this is essentially selling out the future for pittance in order to lie about the state of the present.

    its entirely consistent with this governments economic rape of the country, and the people who voted for them deserve the disaster that is inevitable. I hope they feel the very full brunt of it.

  14. #14
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    Why can't the Chinese just take over the whole govt. Why does NS do that the Chinese won't be able to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Why can't the Chinese just take over the whole govt. Why does NS do that the Chinese won't be able to do?
    It would be pretty cool to call myself Chinese. LOL.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  16. #16
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    why cant a Pakistani company form a Majority JV with a Foreign Airport operator and run these airports?

    Like in India the Delhi Airport is run by Indian GMR group with Fraport(Runs FrankFurt Airport) and Malaysia Airports as minority partners.

    Many airports in India are run like that.Can Pakistan follow such a model?

  17. #17
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    I wanted to check the terms at which the lease is being offered but the only news outlet that has reported this till now is the express tribune. I was also very surprised to not see a single mention of this throughout the day from pti pages or any other pages. Considering how authentic news from the express tribune is, I think we should wait before debating on something like this.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    I am pretty sure the Lease is not to clean the Airports
    Ironic you should say that, I was watching a National Geographic documentary about leopards living on the periphery of Mumbai, and the rubbish and litter which is just discarded on the outskirts of the city was so bad it was attracting hordes of stray dogs, which in turn attracted the leopards.

    Then today I was watching a video showing the spotless underground terminus in Korea so I was thinking if the Chinese could bring some of those standards to Pakistan airports it might be no bad thing.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    why cant a Pakistani company form a Majority JV with a Foreign Airport operator and run these airports?

    Like in India the Delhi Airport is run by Indian GMR group with Fraport(Runs FrankFurt Airport) and Malaysia Airports as minority partners.

    Many airports in India are run like that.Can Pakistan follow such a model?
    the Indians have been superb at this and for decades now: allowing foreign expertise in only through joint ventures with a domestic company in order to train them and to transfer technical expertise - look at the industries that have flourished as a result, how indian society has benefitted and how in medium and longer term as a result, the government generates more revenue and employment.

    the Pakistani governments, on the other hand, have been far more focussed on kick backs for their own personal profiteering by contracting out to sole foreign companies who find a way to pay up their bribes.

    most of the public are so stupid they applaud the short term income without understanding just how much value they have been hoodwinked out of, and yet these same governments term after term garner the support of fools and minions happy to lick scraps from the floor at the cost of death and poverty to their fellow countrymen.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    the Indians have been superb at this and for decades now: allowing foreign expertise in only through joint ventures with a domestic company in order to train them and to transfer technical expertise - look at the industries that have flourished as a result, how indian society has benefitted and how in medium and longer term as a result, the government generates more revenue and employment.

    the Pakistani governments, on the other hand, have been far more focussed on kick backs for their own personal profiteering by contracting out to sole foreign companies who find a way to pay up their bribes.

    most of the public are so stupid they applaud the short term income without understanding just how much value they have been hoodwinked out of, and yet these same governments term after term garner the support of fools and minions happy to lick scraps from the floor at the cost of death and poverty to their fellow countrymen.
    Pakistan should not and for that matter no developing country should allow the foreigners 100% ownership in key sectors.It just doesnt make sense.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Actually the contract to clean Karachi is also given to a Chinese company now the Chinese will soon be cleaning streets in Karachi...

    Chinese company to lift garbage in Karachi

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1297718


    Before a few months Pakistan Stock Exchange (PSX) sold 40 percent strategic shares to Chinese.
    Why cant Pakistani companies do this?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    What's the problem? Seriously? In fact, what problems do we NOT have? This Govt. has solely focused on bringing down its opponents and using its power negatively. Things have gotten worse instead of getting better. Pakistan was better off with PPP even though they themselves are not much better.
    PPP was better was it? This is the educated fool mindset that is so pervasive in your society that is setting you back.

    PPP government was an utter disaster that set the country back a decade, full of outright foreign agents under the guise of diplomats and high ministers... maybe explains why zardari has been outside Pakistan for long. as I said in the other thread, they are lucky Pakistan has no Putin.

    The problems you mention have always been there.... you cannot just keep throwing money at it.. take pia for instance, it requires drastic cut backs, it needs to go into bankruptcy and started again with streamlined operation. Under public ownership, things drag on and drag standards down with them.

    If Pakistani companies want to run the airports, they should should have come in as partners, the absence of it means there isn't anyone interested. You should be thankful that someone is willing to invest and show you how things are run at a better level, which then will raise expectations and will be the default level of service you will expect from Pakistani companies.... Chinese will raise standards and in time you will see Pakistani companies coming up at par with the Chinese.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    the Indians have been superb at this and for decades now: allowing foreign expertise in only through joint ventures with a domestic company in order to train them and to transfer technical expertise - look at the industries that have flourished as a result, how indian society has benefitted and how in medium and longer term as a result, the government generates more revenue and employment.

    the Pakistani governments, on the other hand, have been far more focussed on kick backs for their own personal profiteering by contracting out to sole foreign companies who find a way to pay up their bribes.

    most of the public are so stupid they applaud the short term income without understanding just how much value they have been hoodwinked out of, and yet these same governments term after term garner the support of fools and minions happy to lick scraps from the floor at the cost of death and poverty to their fellow countrymen.
    It's all well saying that but which local company has complained of not being given a chance for a JV?

    Should Islamabad airport be run like a glorified bus stop till Pakistani company shows interest?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    It's all well saying that but which local company has complained of not being given a chance for a JV?

    Should Islamabad airport be run like a glorified bus stop till Pakistani company shows interest?
    thats a fair point, but until we know the terms and whether they were offered to a Pakistani counterpart, or whether indeed there is a Pakistani counterpart, we don't know.

    I SUSPECT, there was no competitive process, because otherwise there would be no guarantee of kickback. I suspect too there might not be a competent Pakistani company that could have taken the contract, in which case its a question to ask the government as to why they have not developed the expertise to run their own airports properly - either way, its a deplorable failing and yet another robbery of the Pakistani people by an inept government.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    thats a fair point, but until we know the terms and whether they were offered to a Pakistani counterpart, or whether indeed there is a Pakistani counterpart, we don't know.

    I SUSPECT, there was no competitive process, because otherwise there would be no guarantee of kickback. I suspect too there might not be a competent Pakistani company that could have taken the contract, in which case its a question to ask the government as to why they have not developed the expertise to run their own airports properly - either way, its a deplorable failing and yet another robbery of the Pakistani people by an inept government.
    If a Pakistani company wanted a piece of the pie, they would have got it.

    About 8 or 9 years ago, Pakistani companies or individuals took the daylight robbery of riko diq mines case to court and its subsequently gone to international arbitration. The mining giant bhp had the contract, the Baluchistan government had signed it off for mere peanuts. The terms and operation was an utter disgrace. Yes I understand what you mean by kick backs and soft terms etc...

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1158808

    Interestingly the Chinese offered 50/50 JV, but the Baluch gov went with bhp for 25 percent share and 2 percent royalty.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    If a Pakistani company wanted a piece of the pie, they would have got it.

    About 8 or 9 years ago, Pakistani companies or individuals took the daylight robbery of riko diq mines case to court and its subsequently gone to international arbitration. The mining giant bhp had the contract, the Baluchistan government had signed it off for mere peanuts. The terms and operation was an utter disgrace. Yes I understand what you mean by kick backs and soft terms etc...

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1158808

    Interestingly the Chinese offered 50/50 JV, but the Baluch gov went with bhp for 25 percent share and 2 percent royalty.
    fair enough.

    however, I'm not sure I share the optimism you do that there is enough freedom to, or competence for Pakistani companies to fight for a part of the pie so to speak. thats based on offline sources and first hand conversations I have had that I can't quote - so I can't make a case to anyone else for them. I don't think an example of one very valid example you appear to have provided, proves that this option will always be there. in addition, given these are borders, I would imagine this is a federal rather than local government issue? but I don't know.

    in addition, in this case, I presume the incumbent company is the government, so there was no competitive bid - does anyone know if there was even a tender? I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    fair enough.

    however, I'm not sure I share the optimism you do that there is enough freedom to, or competence for Pakistani companies to fight for a part of the pie so to speak. thats based on offline sources and first hand conversations I have had that I can't quote - so I can't make a case to anyone else for them. I don't think an example of one very valid example you appear to have provided, proves that this option will always be there. in addition, given these are borders, I would imagine this is a federal rather than local government issue? but I don't know.

    in addition, in this case, I presume the incumbent company is the government, so there was no competitive bid - does anyone know if there was even a tender? I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't.
    I wouldn't be surprised either if there was no proper tendering process. It can be grounds for a court case later on.

    What do Pakistanis expect from their government, only 1% pay tax!! Even Imran would struggle to get anything meaningful off the ground in terms of investing in research and innovation.
    Last edited by Eagle_Eye; 15th March 2017 at 23:52.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    What's the problem? Do you not want things to be run better.

    If Pakistani companies were capable of doing a good job then why didn't they enter the fray earlier?
    Pakistani companies? THey are a joke.

    Pakistani companies dont have the technology or machinery.


    Its funny how some poeple here will take any opportunity to criticize the govt.

    In the past, the garbage disposal was the duty of local companies in Pindi. They barely did any work and the whole city was a mess.

    However, when the contract was given to turkish company Albayrak, they have done a wonderful job here, placing bins and dumpsters at appropriate place. Hiring more staff and having proper cars to pick up the garbage now.

    Yet, people will always find a way to criticize.


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    PPP was better was it? This is the educated fool mindset that is so pervasive in your society that is setting you back.

    PPP government was an utter disaster that set the country back a decade, full of outright foreign agents under the guise of diplomats and high ministers... maybe explains why zardari has been outside Pakistan for long. as I said in the other thread, they are lucky Pakistan has no Putin.

    The problems you mention have always been there.... you cannot just keep throwing money at it.. take pia for instance, it requires drastic cut backs, it needs to go into bankruptcy and started again with streamlined operation. Under public ownership, things drag on and drag standards down with them.

    If Pakistani companies want to run the airports, they should should have come in as partners, the absence of it means there isn't anyone interested. You should be thankful that someone is willing to invest and show you how things are run at a better level, which then will raise expectations and will be the default level of service you will expect from Pakistani companies.... Chinese will raise standards and in time you will see Pakistani companies coming up at par with the Chinese.


    WHat are you on about?



    How did PPP set the country back a decade plz explain?
    My father was making peanuts as govt servent, and it was because of PPP's govt that good pay rises were given in the govt sector.

    PPP and PMLN are two opposite parties.

    PPP makes out proper foreign and domestic policies. They are proper parliamentarians, where the real issues of the country is dealt with.

    A big plus from PPP was that they introduced policies to reduce the rate of inflation. Thats a long term policies, its results come into play after few years(other poltiical parties govt by that time is in power)

    Also before you harp about the inflation rise that happened, it is to be remember that when PPP came into the govt, the national treasure was literally empty after Musharaaf saab had left.


    PMLN might be good at making roads, giving bus services, giving out contracts to contractors regarding public work and public maintenance and all. But let me tell you, these things arn't really that important compared to other stuff that needs to be done.

    These kind of works are left done by the subsidiary in the govt level. The mayors and union coucil guys should be doing this work.
    The PMLN guys barely sit in the parliament to discuss the real issues.

    They end up making metros and motorways to keep us fools happy that oh wow the govt is doing work. Funny enough, Punjab govt was already with PMLN when PPP was the ruling party of Pakistan. ANd yet during that time PMLN did not bother to do these works.

    The whole maqsaad of these works to make us people to believe in that work is beng done govt is doing good.
    Last edited by Major; 16th March 2017 at 00:07.


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Why cant Pakistani companies do this?
    The ability of Chinese companies to fill politician's pockets is far greater than Pakistani companies.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  31. #31
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    There was a news article on Dawn a few days ago regarding the contract for the construction of Dasu dam (A dam on which the future of this country hinges). The news article read something like "The contractor was selected through international competitive bidding among prequalified Chinese firms."

    So even when we have international bidding we restrict it to only Chinese firms that have been prequalified. I'm sure plenty of pockets have been warmed in these bidding processes.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  32. #32
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    I wanted to check the terms at which the lease is being offered but the only news outlet that has reported this till now is the express tribune. I haven't even seen any mention of this news of on pti or other fb pages either. Considering how true the tribune is, we should wait a little before debating over this.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    There was a news article on Dawn a few days ago regarding the contract for the construction of Dasu dam (A dam on which the future of this country hinges). The news article read something like "The contractor was selected through international competitive bidding among prequalified Chinese firms."

    So even when we have international bidding we restrict it to only Chinese firms that have been prequalified. I'm sure plenty of pockets have been warmed in these bidding processes.
    No worries, I get mail all the time telling me I'm prequalified for credit cards.

    I also get mail from African princes. This one time, Robert Mugabe himself wrote to me.


    Silver-tongued seraphim circling the spire...
    Gather in the gallery in their best attire...

  34. #34
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    I understand the friendship between Pak and China but this is a tad too much, you can never trust the dragon.


    ...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    PPP was better was it? This is the educated fool mindset that is so pervasive in your society that is setting you back.

    PPP government was an utter disaster that set the country back a decade, full of outright foreign agents under the guise of diplomats and high ministers... maybe explains why zardari has been outside Pakistan for long. as I said in the other thread, they are lucky Pakistan has no Putin.

    The problems you mention have always been there.... you cannot just keep throwing money at it.. take pia for instance, it requires drastic cut backs, it needs to go into bankruptcy and started again with streamlined operation. Under public ownership, things drag on and drag standards down with them.

    If Pakistani companies want to run the airports, they should should have come in as partners, the absence of it means there isn't anyone interested. You should be thankful that someone is willing to invest and show you how things are run at a better level, which then will raise expectations and will be the default level of service you will expect from Pakistani companies.... Chinese will raise standards and in time you will see Pakistani companies coming up at par with the Chinese.
    All I can say is that during the PPP govt. the literacy rate was at 58%. When they first came onto the scene, it was 56%. Now, during the oh-so-special Sharif Govt. the literacy rate has gone down to 52%. We're moving backwards instead of going forwards.

    As for China and CPEC, let me make one thing clear; I'm the biggest support but I support them having trade ties with us, not ruling us. There needs to be a balance. That's what the terms of trade state. However, we don't follow that and the Govt. doesn't put any embargo's or duties which leads to everything being imported. Our balance of payments is so low because of this. China is slowly going to take over us and we won't even notice. You'll see. We're going to lost our self own identity.

  36. #36
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    This is quite common around the world - for example Heathrow is owned by a foreign consortium including Qatar and China’s sovereign wealth funds.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    thats a fair point, but until we know the terms and whether they were offered to a Pakistani counterpart, or whether indeed there is a Pakistani counterpart, we don't know.

    I SUSPECT, there was no competitive process, because otherwise there would be no guarantee of kickback. I suspect too there might not be a competent Pakistani company that could have taken the contract, in which case its a question to ask the government as to why they have not developed the expertise to run their own airports properly - either way, its a deplorable failing and yet another robbery of the Pakistani people by an inept government.
    The question is was there a Tender issued?If a tender was not issued then its just handing out national assets to whoever the one is power likes.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    The ability of Chinese companies to fill politician's pockets is far greater than Pakistani companies.
    If thats the case then Pakistani companies must join hands together or with other foreign partners to compete.Else they will be decimated by the Chinese.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    There was a news article on Dawn a few days ago regarding the contract for the construction of Dasu dam (A dam on which the future of this country hinges). The news article read something like "The contractor was selected through international competitive bidding among prequalified Chinese firms."

    So even when we have international bidding we restrict it to only Chinese firms that have been prequalified. I'm sure plenty of pockets have been warmed in these bidding processes.
    The very essence of a bidding is that anyone who fulfills the technical cricteria can bid.How can it be prequalified bidding?Then its only Chinese bidding.

  40. #40
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    I may be wrong,but the Chinese economy is slowing and they need new markets.The NATO nations,Japan,India the big markets are resisting chinese dumping.Pakistan is being used as the market by Chinese.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    I may be wrong,but the Chinese economy is slowing and they need new markets.The NATO nations,Japan,India the big markets are resisting chinese dumping.Pakistan is being used as the market by Chinese.
    Way to just pluck and throw in stuff and make it seem plausible.

    Pakistani economy is not big enough to compensate for the "resisting economies". Pakistan is a tiny tiny tiny fraction, if you put all those economies together.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    There was a news article on Dawn a few days ago regarding the contract for the construction of Dasu dam (A dam on which the future of this country hinges). The news article read something like "The contractor was selected through international competitive bidding among prequalified Chinese firms."

    So even when we have international bidding we restrict it to only Chinese firms that have been prequalified. I'm sure plenty of pockets have been warmed in these bidding processes.
    Maybe they want only Chinese, as they seem pretty serious and will actually get it off the ground in quick timeframe.

    Before Chinese took over running of gwadar, port of Singapore authority had the contract to run it. They sat on their laurels for years and years without much progress...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    I may be wrong,but the Chinese economy is slowing and they need new markets.The NATO nations,Japan,India the big markets are resisting chinese dumping.Pakistan is being used as the market by Chinese.
    their economy is slowing, but pakistan won't change that, no matter how much money they make out of it. in my opinion its a combination of profiteering, but also solidifying a key ally that has grown apart from the usa - there is some strategic value in the gathering of pawns by the two large poles of power - Russia-china-iran vs anglo-saxons.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    Way to just pluck and throw in stuff and make it seem plausible.

    Pakistani economy is not big enough to compensate for the "resisting economies". Pakistan is a tiny tiny tiny fraction, if you put all those economies together.
    Its still an economy that has not developed.It can be developed into a market.The only problem is when that actually happens the Pakistani companies would be in no position and the Chinese will be a hegemony.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    their economy is slowing, but pakistan won't change that, no matter how much money they make out of it. in my opinion its a combination of profiteering, but also solidifying a key ally that has grown apart from the usa - there is some strategic value in the gathering of pawns by the two large poles of power - Russia-china-iran vs anglo-saxons.
    Pakistan wants to be treated as a pawn?Allowing anyone country to have so much stake in your economy and vital assests and services means if that country pulls out,your economy collapses.There will be little development of Pakistani companies in this.

    Tbh there is no zero sum game of axises here.Russians hardly play second fiddle to anyone,history is the proof.Secondly they have allies who will not play game with China or Pakistan.Iran is also on a similar boat.Pakistan can only go that close to Iran without upsetting Saudis.Too many complications to form a cohesive axis.

    Any country must leverage this to boost indigenious technology,industry exports etc rather than depend on someone else who will then control the market.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Pakistan wants to be treated as a pawn?Allowing anyone country to have so much stake in your economy and vital assests and services means if that country pulls out,your economy collapses.There will be little development of Pakistani companies in this.

    Tbh there is no zero sum game of axises here.Russians hardly play second fiddle to anyone,history is the proof.Secondly they have allies who will not play game with China or Pakistan.Iran is also on a similar boat.Pakistan can only go that close to Iran without upsetting Saudis.Too many complications to form a cohesive axis.

    Any country must leverage this to boost indigenious technology,industry exports etc rather than depend on someone else who will then control the market.
    no you misunderstand. pakistan doesn't 'want' to be a pawn, Pakistans government don't care that they are a pawn, and seem to be happy to profiteer from it whilst they can, and whilst, exactly as you say, the country becomes increasingly beholden to foreigners whether by way of quasi-privitisation or debt - which is an incredibly dangerous game to be playing.

    its because the governments that have been in place are saturated in corruption, personal self interest and the country has been bled to death as a result.

    I don't know much about the Indian government, but I suspect that despite not being short of their own corruption scandals, they have at least built phenomenal industries, gathered technology and expertise which they have cultivated into economic generative industries that benefit the country.

  47. #47
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    Does anybody actually know what the Chinese stake in the airports actually is, or are we just making guesses and assuming that Pakistani interests have been sold down the river?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Does anybody actually know what the Chinese stake in the airports actually is, or are we just making guesses and assuming that Pakistani interests have been sold down the river?
    China is cleaning our streets, building our dams and motorways, buying out our stock exchanges and power supply companies and now getting operation rights of our airports.


    It is easy to see what China is doing.



    20-30 years down the line we will be completely dependent on mother China for everything.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    China is cleaning our streets, building our dams and motorways, buying out our stock exchanges and power supply companies and now getting operation rights of our airports.


    It is easy to see what China is doing.



    20-30 years down the line we will be completely dependent on mother China for everything.
    I am afraid our small business owners and farmers will suffer the most after CPEC because they can't compete with the prices. Just see how our farmers are suffering because of imports from India.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    I am afraid our small business owners and farmers will suffer the most after CPEC because they can't compete with the prices. Just see how our farmers are suffering because of imports from India.
    This a globalisation conundrum and you begin to understand why trump was elected.

    The question is why can't they compete? If they go protectionist, what will be effects on economy... you will have pay more? inferior product? don't know, I am just guessing. These are the sort of things that ought to be discussed more to educate the public.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    China is cleaning our streets, building our dams and motorways, buying out our stock exchanges and power supply companies and now getting operation rights of our airports.


    It is easy to see what China is doing.



    20-30 years down the line we will be completely dependent on mother China for everything.
    Please provide an alternative, leave things as they are?

    Keep in mind only 1% pay tax.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    This a globalisation conundrum and you begin to understand why trump was elected.

    The question is why can't they compete? If they go protectionist, what will be effects on economy... you will have pay more? inferior product? don't know, I am just guessing. These are the sort of things that ought to be discussed more to educate the public.
    To give you an idea why Pakistani farmer can't compete with Indian farmer is because of the subsidies given to indian farmer by their govt so it's difficult for Pakistani farmer to decrease the price because of the cost involved.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  53. #53
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    Honestly, the way Pakistan is dwelling deeper and deeper into China's hands doesn't look good for them. With CPEC already a big debt on Pakistan, bringing in Chinese to do jobs that can very well be done by the administration within the country isn't a smart move.

  54. #54
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    Pak government is useless. As much as it pains me better to be on life support machine then be dead. NS has no idea of governance. Like it or not we are currently heavily dependent on China at least for the next ten years. How about renaming the country to Pakchistan!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  55. #55
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    In other news today plan to sell Karachi Electric to Shanghai Electric have failed as Sui Southern refused to write off Rs 45 Billions debt of KE.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    China is cleaning our streets, building our dams and motorways, buying out our stock exchanges and power supply companies and now getting operation rights of our airports.


    It is easy to see what China is doing.



    20-30 years down the line we will be completely dependent on mother China for everything.
    Might not be a bad thing. China's economy is fastest rising in the world, their streets are clean, there is no religious lobby getting in the way of progress. It's a shame but it seems that there isn't enough pride in Pakistani citizens to do all these things for themselves.

    For what it's worth I don't think India is much better when it comes to living standards and hygiene, but at least they give the impression they have a plan to fix that at some point in the future.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    Please provide an alternative, leave things as they are?

    Keep in mind only 1% pay tax.
    Whose responsibility is it to fix that?


    Or next we are going to ask China to come collect the tax for us?


    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for CPEC because it entails development of new assets such as motorways, dams, railway lines and power plants. The problem I have is with China being given complete administrative rights over organizations like KE or Pak's 3 biggest airports.

    That crosses a line for me.



    If they want to come and build infrastructure and earn a profit while benefiting the Pakistani nation then sau bismillah, but giving them administrative rights of assets is like signing away our sovereignty.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Might not be a bad thing. China's economy is fastest rising in the world, their streets are clean, there is no religious lobby getting in the way of progress. It's a shame but it seems that there isn't enough pride in Pakistani citizens to do all these things for themselves.

    For what it's worth I don't think India is much better when it comes to living standards and hygiene, but at least they give the impression they have a plan to fix that at some point in the future.
    So in other words we are outsourcing our government to China?


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  59. #59
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    Nothing wrong in it if there are multiple countries involved in Pakistan maintaining different sectors and training locals,protectionism is not the way forward so this is a welcome step but it would be better if the employ locals,they might end up developing various sectors in Pakistan in a better way than the current government.

    The only problem imo is Pakistan might do the same mistake they did with Japanese automakers.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    The only problem imo is Pakistan might do the same mistake they did with Japanese automakers.
    Elaborate? Did they try something akin to Maruti Suzuki and fail?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Elaborate? Did they try something akin to Maruti Suzuki and fail?
    No we let the Japanese boss us around. For the longest time there were three main players in the Pakistani auto industry, Honda, Toyota and Suzuki. Anyone else had a hard time finding a strong foothold in the market. One or two local companies even tried introducing local car models but those flopped like crazy because the Pakistani consumer is hellbent on buying Japanese cars.

    In recent years with greater wealth amongst elite class and open government policies there was massive import of high-end German cars which led to Audi taking interest in setting up an assembly plant in Pak. There are others that are eyeing the opportunity to enter into the market like Renault, Volkswagen, Kia and a few Chinese manufacturers. To encourage new players the government came out with a good auto policy last year and after which these Japanese troika threw a hissy fit. Suzuki even said that they would halt their planned investments in new plants and instead move them to Iran, the Pak government gave them a subtle "go ahead " and soon they fell in line.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    No we let the Japanese boss us around. For the longest time there were three main players in the Pakistani auto industry, Honda, Toyota and Suzuki. Anyone else had a hard time finding a strong foothold in the market. One or two local companies even tried introducing local car models but those flopped like crazy because the Pakistani consumer is hellbent on buying Japanese cars.

    In recent years with greater wealth amongst elite class and open government policies there was massive import of high-end German cars which led to Audi taking interest in setting up an assembly plant in Pak. There are others that are eyeing the opportunity to enter into the market like Renault, Volkswagen, Kia and a few Chinese manufacturers. To encourage new players the government came out with a good auto policy last year and after which these Japanese troika threw a hissy fit. Suzuki even said that they would halt their planned investments in new plants and instead move them to Iran, the Pak government gave them a subtle "go ahead " and soon they fell in line.
    Ah, not so much of a 'mistake' then. It's good for the Pakistani consumer to have the variety - be it Pakistani, Japanese or German.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Ah, not so much of a 'mistake' then. It's good for the Pakistani consumer to have the variety - be it Pakistani, Japanese or German.
    They rectified their mistake after a long time man.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    No we let the Japanese boss us around. For the longest time there were three main players in the Pakistani auto industry, Honda, Toyota and Suzuki. Anyone else had a hard time finding a strong foothold in the market. One or two local companies even tried introducing local car models but those flopped like crazy because the Pakistani consumer is hellbent on buying Japanese cars.

    In recent years with greater wealth amongst elite class and open government policies there was massive import of high-end German cars which led to Audi taking interest in setting up an assembly plant in Pak. There are others that are eyeing the opportunity to enter into the market like Renault, Volkswagen, Kia and a few Chinese manufacturers. To encourage new players the government came out with a good auto policy last year and after which these Japanese troika threw a hissy fit. Suzuki even said that they would halt their planned investments in new plants and instead move them to Iran, the Pak government gave them a subtle "go ahead " and soon they fell in line.
    Same is being done with the Chinese.There has to be a clause of Pakistani companies being 50-50 in a JV.

  65. #65
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    All these contracts with China, surely the majority in Parliament has given a green signal? Or is N-league playing a solo game here? If the latter is case what will happen if PTI comes into power, will it terminate all the contracts? That could also be messy, or will PTI just blame last gov and say they have only inheritated these "gifts"?


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    All these contracts with China, surely the majority in Parliament has given a green signal? Or is N-league playing a solo game here? If the latter is case what will happen if PTI comes into power, will it terminate all the contracts? That could also be messy, or will PTI just blame last gov and say they have only inheritated these "gifts"?
    No these agreements are between government of Pakistan and government of China, not between PML-N and Communist Party of China. Change in the ruling party will not have any effect on the contracts, however, PTI would want to 'revisit' them with the Chinese and possibly change them if the Chinese agree. They will in all likelihood have different standards for the contracts that are signed during their government.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  67. #67
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    I think unlike all the other things which China has a stake in, Airports and airspaces are a much more strategic asset and also important to the sovereignty of a country. But as captain sahab said above, we should not what exactly the stakes are to judge


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Whose responsibility is it to fix that?


    Or next we are going to ask China to come collect the tax for us?


    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for CPEC because it entails development of new assets such as motorways, dams, railway lines and power plants. The problem I have is with China being given complete administrative rights over organizations like KE or Pak's 3 biggest airports.

    That crosses a line for me.



    If they want to come and build infrastructure and earn a profit while benefiting the Pakistani nation then sau bismillah, but giving them administrative rights of assets is like signing away our sovereignty.
    You have wrong end of the stick... take for example the airports. They will run the commercial side, the government still is in charge of who comes in and leaves and the overall security apparatus. Your experience as a traveller will be much better.

    Why is KE a holy cow for you? Do you not pay your electric bill currently?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    To give you an idea why Pakistani farmer can't compete with Indian farmer is because of the subsidies given to indian farmer by their govt so it's difficult for Pakistani farmer to decrease the price because of the cost involved.
    Then farmers should be breaking down government door to stop imports from countries that puts them at a disadvantage.... that too from enemy country.

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