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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraltofrivia View Post
    Those stats are a lie.

    Yasir's overall average is 31.51. His overseas average is 37.88.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

    Ashwin's overall average is 25.18. His overseas average is 33.23.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround
    Those stats not a lie just because you can't properly read and understand my post. Let me make it easier for you.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...iew=cumulative

    After the end of 4th test in Australia, Ashwin had played 24 tests and averaged 30.67.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak_Fan View Post
    What a clever manipulation of stats. What does this "after" overseas tours even imply? Ashwin for example has played twice as many matches in Australia... had Yasir played as many, his average would be 40+ today.

    Here's a better way to look at it -

    Yasir's average after 1/3 of his matches overseas - 31.51

    Ashwin's average after 1/3 of his matches overseas - 24.29 (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling)
    There is no manipulation of stats. After overseas tours, Ashwin averaged 30, Yasir averages 31. Ashwin then went on to play almost all of the games on rank turners in Asia and lowered his average to 25. Yasir is yet to play in Asia after overseas tours. If he bowls rubbish like he did in Australia then I will have no problem if someone calls him mediocre. However, if he bullies teams on spinning tracks and lowers his average to 25, will you have the capability to give him any credit like Ashwin?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Seems like everyone is reciting from the same script so instead of quoting everyone and repeating myself, I will just add my two cents here and address most of the points from my perspective.

    Yasir did well in England, was good in two matches and dreadful in two, but he was completely exposed in Australia and that is what I feared when he was running through teams in UAE and Sri Lanka. It is normal for a spinner to not take wickets when there is no assistance, but he got smashed like no tomorrow - he got the Imran Tahir treatment.

    The sign of a top quality spinner is his ability to bowl both aggressively and defensively, and Yasir is clueless when it comes to the latter. He looks great when his tail is up and he is taking wickets, but he turns into a kitten when the batsmen take him on. He simply cannot contain, which is a big problem, and puts extra pressure on the other bowlers because it allows the batsmen to settle. However, when you bowl tight spells, you don't allow the batsmen to settle and other bowlers can capitalize. Ashwin though, can do both. He is both aggressive and defensive, which means that even when he is not taking wickets, he doesn't get smashed.

    It is true that Ashwin doesn't have any match-winning performances overseas yet, but he will get another shot in England soon. However, he has outperformed Yasir everywhere else where both have played, and now Yasir will get a chance to match him in the WI. Yasir was ahead of Ashwin before the Australian tour, but that is where the wheels came off. Let alone Ashwin, he is not even better than Jadeja. It is time we stop thumping our chests after the way he got exposed in Australia.

    All this talk of Ashwin getting out-bowled by Lyon and O'Keefe etc. does not mean much. In the UAE, Bishoo matched Yasir blow for blow, and he was supposedly bowling to the 'best spin playing team in the world', a myth that is peddled around on PP, even though I have lost count of the number of spinners who have pulled the rug underneath our feet in the last few years. Not to mention this whole talk of Ashwin getting dropped in SA is pointless as well, when Yasir himself got chopped in NZ. I am not interested in the excuse that it was a tactical change. The fact is that the management did not have faith in him bowling economically, and thus dropped him.

    Nonetheless, I'm simply flogging a dead horse here. It is a proven fact that Pakistani fans are the most delusional in the world. Almost every Pakistani player is better than their Indian counterpart in their opinion but somehow, India continues to outperform Pakistan in all formats. Enough of the fluke 2-2 series in England, where we played in late summer and got dry pitches, and England had a unsettled top-order of Hales, Vince and Ballance, while Anderson and Stokes were nursing injuries. Anderson was below his best because of his shoulder injury prior to the first Test, and Stokes only played 1 match. Anderson was in imperious form vs SL but his pace and swing was down vs Pakistan, and it is not just the conditions because if Woakes could swing the ball, so could Anderson. However, he wasn't at his best. It was a one-off performance and India have outperformed us on their overseas tours apart from that, so it simply shows that India is a better Test team than Pakistan, which is also true when you compare them man to man.

    That is all I have to say on this issue. Now I will let some folks continue to live in a parallel world where the overweight Shah is better than Ashwin.
    In his 6 series in India, Ponting averaged 13, 21, 3, 11, 38, and 56. Did anybody call him mediocre? Your whole argument is based on one bad series for Yasir which is absurd.

    What does India being a better test team than Pakistan has to do with this thread? Who is denying that? If team A is better than team B, then does it mean that every member of team A is better than team B?

    Pakistan has beaten England in England while England has not won single test outside home against Pakistan since 2000, despite playing 3 full series. So no matter, how you many excuses you come up with, Pakistan beat England fair and square in their own backyard with UAE Khan and overweight Yasir Shah.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    In his 6 series in India, Ponting averaged 13, 21, 3, 11, 38, and 56. Did anybody call him mediocre?
    Yes - Ponting and Warne were acknowledged to be quite poor in Indian conditions. Warne against India in Australia as well.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Yes - Ponting and Warne were acknowledged to be quite poor in Indian conditions. Warne against India in Australia as well.
    "In Indian conditions" is the key here but did anybody in their right mind call Ponting an overall mediocre batsman?

  6. #86
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    Time will continue to shatter all myths. A reckoning is approaching India later this year: A resurgent South Africa, still aching from being screwed in 2015 and looking to get back to the top. We'll see how the Indian Ponting, Bowling Bradman,"Jinks" and the 2 Fast 2 Furious duo of Umesh and Ishant like the safari.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  7. #87
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    There's a lot of arguments on here . .

    My two cents:

    1.) Anything who thinks Yasir Shah or Ashwin for that matter are mediocre/not good (whatever word you want to use) is just plain and simple - unfair! They are both absolutely brilliant bowlers who have won many many matches for their respective countries . .

    2.) For anyone who thinks someone like a Shadab will out perform Yasir in Tests again clearly needs to understand Test cricket better . . Bowlers who rely on variations primarily to succeed are not successful in test cricket!! Mystery, trickery are important weapons in LOI . . for test cricket, you need to have a great stock ball which you can deliver ball after ball at the same spot consistently . . Ashwin is one of the best examples of this when he tried way too many tricks in the beginning of his career from his action, to the carrom ball, to other tricks . . and then HE STOPPED! He developed this beautiful conventional off spinner with loop, drift, revs, landing them perfectly and he started seeing results . . and it's the same with Yasir Shah . . yes, Yasir doesn't have the best variations but he does have a very very good stock ball which has made him so successful . .

    3.) For anyone even thinking labeling Yasir Shah as mediocre is absolutely ridiculous . . The guy just became 2nd fastest to 100 wickets in the HISTORY of test cricket . . Guys!! Mediocre bowlers don't do that!! this is 130+ years of cricket we are talking about . . i dont care where he has played . . it is an unbelievable accomplishment! Please be fair in your criticism . . and then you'd argue that most of his wickets are in Asia . . yes they are! however, by that same logic . . over 80% of Ashwin's wickets are in Asia

    4.) Let's look deeper into Ashwin's numbers . .
    a.) Ashwin has 75% of wickets in INdia (204/271)
    b.) Ashwin has 85% of wickets in Asia (230/271)
    c.) Out of Ashwin's remaining 41 wickets, 17 are against WI in 4 test matches
    d.) The remaining 24 wickets have come in 9 test matches in Aus, Eng and SA
    e.) Conclusion: Ashwin has won India many games in Asia and he won them games in the Windies

    5.) Yasir Shah has won many a games for Pakistan in Asia and Yasir Shah won 2 games for you in England . . the only 2 that Pakistan won in England!

    6.) Ashwin has visited Australia 2 times . . the second time he visited, he was markedly better than the first . . anyone gonna refute that?! Every cricketer goes through a serious learning . . Historically, Australia has been one of the toughest places to visit for any spin bowler . .

    7.) Yes, granted Yasir Shah was not good in Australia and he will be the first to admit that . . however, this was his first tour there . . it takes time . . learning is a process . . no one can continue taking 100 wickets in 16 test matches . . the guy is a gem!

    Overall, please learn to respect . . especially respect those who have won you many matches . . there is no bowler ever who has dominated every match/series that he has played . . or batsman for that matter . . Yasir has done A LOT for him to claim one of the best in the world status . . one series DOES NOT change that . .

    Both Ashwin and Yasir are class bowlers in test match cricket!! Ashwin isn't having the best series against australia right now . . doens't make him bad! although im sure many of the same people would be saying . . oh look! he isn't doing well in india now . . so he sucks! thats just terribly unfair!

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by NauV View Post
    There's a lot of arguments on here . .

    My two cents:

    1.) Anything who thinks Yasir Shah or Ashwin for that matter are mediocre/not good (whatever word you want to use) is just plain and simple - unfair! They are both absolutely brilliant bowlers who have won many many matches for their respective countries . .

    2.) For anyone who thinks someone like a Shadab will out perform Yasir in Tests again clearly needs to understand Test cricket better . . Bowlers who rely on variations primarily to succeed are not successful in test cricket!! Mystery, trickery are important weapons in LOI . . for test cricket, you need to have a great stock ball which you can deliver ball after ball at the same spot consistently . . Ashwin is one of the best examples of this when he tried way too many tricks in the beginning of his career from his action, to the carrom ball, to other tricks . . and then HE STOPPED! He developed this beautiful conventional off spinner with loop, drift, revs, landing them perfectly and he started seeing results . . and it's the same with Yasir Shah . . yes, Yasir doesn't have the best variations but he does have a very very good stock ball which has made him so successful . .

    3.) For anyone even thinking labeling Yasir Shah as mediocre is absolutely ridiculous . . The guy just became 2nd fastest to 100 wickets in the HISTORY of test cricket . . Guys!! Mediocre bowlers don't do that!! this is 130+ years of cricket we are talking about . . i dont care where he has played . . it is an unbelievable accomplishment! Please be fair in your criticism . . and then you'd argue that most of his wickets are in Asia . . yes they are! however, by that same logic . . over 80% of Ashwin's wickets are in Asia

    4.) Let's look deeper into Ashwin's numbers . .
    a.) Ashwin has 75% of wickets in INdia (204/271)
    b.) Ashwin has 85% of wickets in Asia (230/271)
    c.) Out of Ashwin's remaining 41 wickets, 17 are against WI in 4 test matches
    d.) The remaining 24 wickets have come in 9 test matches in Aus, Eng and SA
    e.) Conclusion: Ashwin has won India many games in Asia and he won them games in the Windies

    5.) Yasir Shah has won many a games for Pakistan in Asia and Yasir Shah won 2 games for you in England . . the only 2 that Pakistan won in England!

    6.) Ashwin has visited Australia 2 times . . the second time he visited, he was markedly better than the first . . anyone gonna refute that?! Every cricketer goes through a serious learning . . Historically, Australia has been one of the toughest places to visit for any spin bowler . .

    7.) Yes, granted Yasir Shah was not good in Australia and he will be the first to admit that . . however, this was his first tour there . . it takes time . . learning is a process . . no one can continue taking 100 wickets in 16 test matches . . the guy is a gem!

    Overall, please learn to respect . . especially respect those who have won you many matches . . there is no bowler ever who has dominated every match/series that he has played . . or batsman for that matter . . Yasir has done A LOT for him to claim one of the best in the world status . . one series DOES NOT change that . .

    Both Ashwin and Yasir are class bowlers in test match cricket!! Ashwin isn't having the best series against australia right now . . doens't make him bad! although im sure many of the same people would be saying . . oh look! he isn't doing well in india now . . so he sucks! thats just terribly unfair!
    Let me also add a number 8 and 9 to it . .

    8.) Please measure cricketers in the percentage of matches that they've had an impact at and won games for their countries . . Yasir Shah has had a major major impact in 80% of matches that he has played for his country and perhaps even won most of them single handedly . . similarly, Ravi Ashwin has had a major impact on most of the matches that he has played and won games for his country . . that alone makes them both absolutely wonderful cricketers . .

    9.) Those commenting on Yasir Shah and his fitness . . you're just being petty . . personal prejudice clouds objectivity . . he is one of the most agile fielders in the team if not the most agile . . he is one of the best fielders if not the best . . he is one of the fittest . . . because we're comparing him to ashwin in this thread . . there is no comparison on their ability as a fielder . . yasir shah is miles ahead . .

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