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  1. #1
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    Ravi Ashwin and Yasir Shah's stats after overseas tours

    Ashwin 30.67 after 24 tests
    Yasir 31.51 after 23 tests

    Ashwin afterward played almost all matches, except 3 in WI, and lowered his average to 25.

    Yasir has not played any match yet since the conclusion of Australian tour.

    How come Ashwin is considered an iconic cricketer, world's best spinner, the Bradman of bowling and Yasir considered mediocre when both of them have similar stats after the conclusion of overseas tours?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Ashwin 30.67 after 24 tests
    Yasir 31.51 after 23 tests

    Ashwin afterward played almost all matches, except 3 in WI, and lowered his average to 25.

    Yasir has not played any match yet since the conclusion of Australian tour.

    How come Ashwin is considered an iconic cricketer, world's best spinner, the Bradman of bowling and Yasir considered mediocre when both of them have similar stats after the conclusion of overseas tours?
    Because Ashwin is Indian and is given more publicity.


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  3. #3
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    Cos Ashwin fought tooth and nail in Aus when other pacers were leaking 6 runs per over and matched Lyon's stats in the 3 games they played even though he neither had the support or situation to get those wickets.

    Make any spinner play 6 pattas of Aus and then watch their stats zoom crazily. Just 3 tests in Aus destroyed Yasir's stats. Herath is the only exception but then his numbers in other countries are bad.

    Also Ash played in only 1 turner in his overseas leg and he did very well. Every spinner seems to boost their numbers on turners or slow track only.

    With that being said, anyone saying Ashwin is amazing and Yasir is utterly mediocre is wrong too.


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  4. #4
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    No one apart from Indians say Yasir is mediocre

    Simple fact is Yasir has contributed to two wins in England, Aus, SA whereas Ashwin us contributed zilch and not won a single game in these countries

    Infact he was not considered good enough by his team management and dropped to prevent further embarassment

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Cos Ashwin fought tooth and nail in Aus when other pacers were leaking 6 runs per over and matched Lyon's stats in the 3 games they played even though he neither had the support or situation to get those wickets.

    Make any spinner play 6 pattas of Aus and then watch their stats zoom crazily. Just 3 tests in Aus destroyed Yasir's stats. Herath is the only exception but then his numbers in other countries are bad.

    Also Ash played in only 1 turner in his overseas leg and he did very well. Every spinner seems to boost their numbers on turners or slow track only.

    With that being said, anyone saying Ashwin is amazing and Yasir is utterly mediocre is wrong too.
    This is a fair and balanced view.

    Ashwin might be a better bowler than Yasir and I do not have any problem with that.

    However, it is absolutely ridiculous to give Ashwin title like iconic, Bradman, "on another level" when the difference is really not that big.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    No one apart from Indians say Yasir is mediocre

    Simple fact is Yasir has contributed to two wins in England, Aus, SA whereas Ashwin us contributed zilch and not won a single game in these countries

    Infact he was not considered good enough by his team management and dropped to prevent further embarassment
    Yasir was also dropped for a Test in NZ.

  7. #7
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    Ashwin was economical unlike Yasir who got thrashed, and he has done better in every country except for England, and that is why he is better than Yasir.

    End of thread.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Ashwin was economical unlike Yasir who got thrashed, and he has done better in every country except for England, and that is why he is better than Yasir.

    End of thread.
    Just because you say end of thread doesn't mean it is. Seems like you're losing patience a bit when you're not putting a solid argument

    Ashwin was economical and didn't get taken to the cleaners when India lost. Infact it proves he was an uninspiring, safe choice

    Yasir got thrashed at times but also won games and showed that he can make an impact

    So clearly not a clear cut decision and many may pick the guy who atleast goes for the win

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yasir was also dropped for a Test in NZ.
    That was a tactical switch where 4 seamers were played whereas Ashwin was dropped for Jadeja

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    No one apart from Indians say Yasir is mediocre

    Simple fact is Yasir has contributed to two wins in England, Aus, SA whereas Ashwin us contributed zilch and not won a single game in these countries

    Infact he was not considered good enough by his team management and dropped to prevent further embarassment
    By the way, Yasir is yet to play in South Africa.


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    That was a tactical switch where 4 seamers were played whereas Ashwin was dropped for Jadeja
    I know and it doesn't matter. Fact remains that the management lost faith in the so-called best spinner in the world and didn't think that he will come good, which is why they dropped him. If we are going to mock Ashwin for getting dropped, we need to do the same to Yasir.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I know and it doesn't matter. Fact remains that the management lost faith in the so-called best spinner in the world and didn't think that he will come good, which is why they dropped him. If we are going to mock Ashwin for getting dropped, we need to do the same to Yasir.
    You do not make any sense at all. Ashwin was dropped for a spinner. Yasir was dropped for a pacer.

    Two completely different things!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Ashwin was economical unlike Yasir who got thrashed, and he has done better in every country except for England, and that is why he is better than Yasir.

    End of thread.
    Please name those other countries and number of matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    How come Ashwin is considered an iconic cricketer, world's best spinner, the Bradman of bowling and Yasir considered mediocre when both of them have similar stats after the conclusion of overseas tours?
    This is an exaggeration.

    Yasir Shah is a phenomenal talent and is anything but mediocre. I think the following could explain why Ravichandran Ashwin enjoys greater admiration:-

    1. Ashwin enjoys good 2-3 years of lead over Yasir due to seniority in international cricket. So with identical averages and SR Ashwin still lads him on total wickets and other accumulative stats.

    2. Ashwin's been able to replicate his test success in limited overs cricket as well where Yasir seems to be struggling. Thus more limelight and recognition for Ashwin.

    3. Ashwin's also done a great job with the bat, although that has nothign to do with bowling, it still elevates Ashwin as a cricketer overall in the minds of fans and analysts.



    Your tone suggests its to do with the Indian nationality. I don't think that is the case otherwise Srinath would have been more popular than the two Ws. Ultimately, players' skill and performances shine through all bias.

    Hope it helped.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    This is an exaggeration.

    Yasir Shah is a phenomenal talent and is anything but mediocre. I think the following could explain why Ravichandran Ashwin enjoys greater admiration:-

    1. Ashwin enjoys good 2-3 years of lead over Yasir due to seniority in international cricket. So with identical averages and SR Ashwin still lads him on total wickets and other accumulative stats.

    2. Ashwin's been able to replicate his test success in limited overs cricket as well where Yasir seems to be struggling. Thus more limelight and recognition for Ashwin.

    3. Ashwin's also done a great job with the bat, although that has nothign to do with bowling, it still elevates Ashwin as a cricketer overall in the minds of fans and analysts.



    Your tone suggests its to do with the Indian nationality. I don't think that is the case otherwise Srinath would have been more popular than the two Ws. Ultimately, players' skill and performances shine through all bias.

    Hope it helped.
    Ashwin is not even among the top 3 ODI spinners. Please check his ODI stats in the last 2 years. Neither did he perform with the ball or bat in ODIs.

    Let Yasir play in the UAE for 1 year and I can guarantee that his average will come down to 25 despite UAE not as spinner friendly as India.

    Ashwin the all-rounder is definitely superior to Yasir. There is no doubt about it. This thread is purely based on test performances.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I know and it doesn't matter. Fact remains that the management lost faith in the so-called best spinner in the world and didn't think that he will come good, which is why they dropped him. If we are going to mock Ashwin for getting dropped, we need to do the same to Yasir.
    You don't make any sense and the best part is you know it yourself

    Ashwin got dropped for a spinner. Yasir got dropped as the pitch was as green as the outfield.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad10 View Post
    By the way, Yasir is yet to play in South Africa.
    I know

    I and many others consider these three countries as graveyards for spinners so that's why. Ashwin has got more bite of the cherries and still failed to deliver even one impactful performance despite multiple tours

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    What I find funny is how the Indian posters call Yasir out for failing in Australia, but find every excuse under the sun as to why Ashwin failed in Australia and England.

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    Good observation.

    Yasir is statistically at same position where Ashwin was couple of years ago.

    But the difference is that Yasir's performance is in constant decline while Ashwin was gradually improving.

    He started vs Australia in UAE where he was taking wickets on straighter balls because Aussies were playing him for turn. He kept improving in NZ and Bangladesh series and was at his best in SL. He was putting lot of revs on the ball, got it to drift and turn at sharp pace. He has never been the same since then. He has lost his drift and have progressively becomes easier to play to the point that he was manhandled in Australia.

    Ashwin on the other hand, had developed deceptive drift and have become much clever in the use of his variations by the end of India's overseas leg. He has stacked up great numbers in his next 20 tests. Yasir is unlikely to replicate such performance even if you give him some allowance (by some normalizing factor) for UAE being relatively difficult for spinner than India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    What I find funny is how the Indian posters call Yasir out for failing in Australia, but find every excuse under the sun as to why Ashwin failed in Australia and England.
    Ashwin didn't fail in either of those countries. He outperformed Lyon in Australia and just played 2 innings in England getting 2 wickets.

  21. #21
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    just wait for a few series, Yasir will be back taking dozens of wickets. He had a few bad games in ANZ, he will recover it in the next series. His average will be less then 25 after next 3 series.

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    What Pakistan must do is play drop Shafiq until Misbah retires (so only for WI tour, after which Misbah would go and Shafiq would come back in), move Sarfraz up to #6, and bring Shadab in at #7, thus allowing us to have 5 bowling options which consists of 2 spinners and 3 pacers (or 3 spinners and 2 pacers on turners).

    This will decrease the load on Yasir, and then watch his numbers improve.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    What Pakistan must do is play drop Shafiq until Misbah retires (so only for WI tour, after which Misbah would go and Shafiq would come back in), move Sarfraz up to #6, and bring Shadab in at #7, thus allowing us to have 5 bowling options which consists of 2 spinners and 3 pacers (or 3 spinners and 2 pacers on turners).

    This will decrease the load on Yasir, and then watch his numbers improve.

    We're not going to play 2 leg break bowlers.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    We're not going to play 2 leg break bowlers.
    Why not?

    Right now Azhar is our 5th bowler and he too is a leggie.

    I'd rather have a genuine leggie play then, especially if he is one who could provide me with some handy runs down the order (which Shadab can).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Why not?

    Right now Azhar is our 5th bowler and he too is a leggie.

    I'd rather have a genuine leggie play then, especially if he is one who could provide me with some handy runs down the order (which Shadab can).

    He is a part timer. Your talking about including more of a specialist spinner.

    I don't have an issue with the idea I just don't see Pakistan think tank going with it.

    I wouldn't mind a seam bowling all rounder playing. We are due to play England next year in the early part of the summer when the ball will seam and swing . So we should try to develop a seam bowling all rounder.

  26. #26
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    Those stats are a lie.

    Yasir's overall average is 31.51. His overseas average is 37.88.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

    Ashwin's overall average is 25.18. His overseas average is 33.23.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

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    Also even the stats after 24/23 tests reek of malice. Why take 24 tests for Ashwin and 23 for Yasir when it should be the same number? I'll tell you why. Cause after 23 tests Ashwin averages 29.85 and OP added the extra test to put Ashwin over 30 so he could show an equivalence.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraltofrivia View Post
    Also even the stats after 24/23 tests reek of malice. Why take 24 tests for Ashwin and 23 for Yasir when it should be the same number? I'll tell you why. Cause after 23 tests Ashwin averages 29.85 and OP added the extra test to put Ashwin over 30 so he could show an equivalence.
    Or maybe it's because the 24th Test for Ashwin was also in Australia - the point of the thread is that both of them had very similar stats after overseas tours. I pointed this out a while back too. I believe their ICC rating was also very similar in comparison.

    Like I've mentioned before, Yasir needs to bounce back well from the disappointment of the Australian tour, just like Ashwin did and he can be in the reckoning for the best spinner in the world again.

    People are casting blanket statements too early, claiming that the likes of Ashwin, Jadeja and Herath are miles ahead of Yasir.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Or maybe it's because the 24th Test for Ashwin was also in Australia - the point of the thread is that both of them had very similar stats after overseas tours. I pointed this out a while back too. I believe their ICC rating was also very similar in comparison.

    Like I've mentioned before, Yasir needs to bounce back well from the disappointment of the Australian tour, just like Ashwin did and he can be in the reckoning for the best spinner in the world again.

    People are casting blanket statements too early, claiming that the likes of Ashwin, Jadeja and Herath are miles ahead of Yasir.
    His 23rd test was also in Australia and the number of matches for both outside SC would be 8 for each. Ashwin - 5 in Oz, 2 in Eng, 1 in SA. Yasir - 4 in Eng, 3 in Oz, 1 in NZ. The only reason the extra test was included was to push the average over 30 as it looks different and closer to Yasir's. Kind of how people price their products at 2.99 or 3.99 etc.

  30. #30
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    Lol Yasir would be averaging in -teens if he played as many games in India as Ashwin.

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    What a clever manipulation of stats. What does this "after" overseas tours even imply? Ashwin for example has played twice as many matches in Australia... had Yasir played as many, his average would be 40+ today.

    Here's a better way to look at it -

    Yasir's average after 1/3 of his matches overseas - 31.51

    Ashwin's average after 1/3 of his matches overseas - 24.29 (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    Lol Yasir would be averaging in -teens if he played as many games in India as Ashwin.
    And yet, he averages much more than Ashwin in every single country they have played in.

  33. #33
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    Why this need to prove one player is better than the other? Why not just enjoy everyone's performances and live life happily... why why whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Ashwin didn't fail in either of those countries. He outperformed Lyon in Australia and just played 2 innings in England getting 2 wickets.
    He just played 2 innings because he wasn't deemed good enough by captain and coach who went for Jadeja

    If you saw those innings you'd see how utterly imeffective he was back then on those pitches

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Ashwin 30.67 after 24 tests
    Yasir 31.51 after 23 tests

    Ashwin afterward played almost all matches, except 3 in WI, and lowered his average to 25.

    Yasir has not played any match yet since the conclusion of Australian tour.

    How come Ashwin is considered an iconic cricketer, world's best spinner, the Bradman of bowling and Yasir considered mediocre when both of them have similar stats after the conclusion of overseas tours?
    I don't think those are the perceptions of the two.

    @MMHS is going to have a heart attack, but I think it's pointless picking a specialist spinner in Australia or South Africa or New Zealand unless he can bat.

    In reality, Pakistan would have done much better in Australia and New Zealand if they had picked Mohammad Nawaz - or even Imad Wasim - as the sole spinner and added an extra quick bowler.

    Pakistan tours England in May 2018 - when the damp conditions mean that no spinner will even bowl - and then South Africa 6 months later when again, a fourth quick will be of far more use than a spinner.

    People need to understand that Shane Warne was a one-off. Spinners aren't going to work very often outside Asia, and Moeen Ali is probably the ideal one - he can bowl a few overs, but he can bat.

    I'd much rather play Moeen Ali than R Ashwin or Yasir Shah in Australia.

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    The simple reason is Ashwin is a much bigger match winner than Yasir. Apart from his Test format credentials, he was able to win Champions trophy for us which was played in England. Yasir can only dream to replicate those performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
    The simple reason is Ashwin is a much bigger match winner than Yasir. Apart from his Test format credentials, he was able to win Champions trophy for us which was played in England. Yasir can only dream to replicate those performance.
    Let alone his batting heroics inn test. Sometimes feel harder to get out than top 3 batsmen. Less said about yasir's imapct the better

    I know this thread is focused on bowling but Ashwim better impact in bolwing and much greater impact as a player overall


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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I don't think those are the perceptions of the two.

    @MMHS is going to have a heart attack, but I think it's pointless picking a specialist spinner in Australia or South Africa or New Zealand unless he can bat.

    In reality, Pakistan would have done much better in Australia and New Zealand if they had picked Mohammad Nawaz - or even Imad Wasim - as the sole spinner and added an extra quick bowler.

    Pakistan tours England in May 2018 - when the damp conditions mean that no spinner will even bowl - and then South Africa 6 months later when again, a fourth quick will be of far more use than a spinner.

    People need to understand that Shane Warne was a one-off. Spinners aren't going to work very often outside Asia, and Moeen Ali is probably the ideal one - he can bowl a few overs, but he can bat.

    I'd much rather play Moeen Ali than R Ashwin or Yasir Shah in Australia.


    For the first part, I don't know how many times I have to explain this - you have to check yourself regarding Herath, Mushtaq, Saqlin, Ajmal, Kaneria in AUS/SAF/NZ - I am not going to Murali even. Yasir struggled in AUS not because spinners can't work there, rather he bowled poor & used in a defensive way, for a 4 men attack, which was the biggest culprit - one can't go with 4 bowlers in AUS & then bring leggi with 10 overs old Kookaburra with a defensive field to bowl leg line.

    As I said sometimes earlier, in 2018, if the condition is wet, I'll play 4 pacers & 6 batsmen - no spinners; rather than playing a half decent spinner like Nawaz, who doesn't offer anything. In SAF, PAK should play not 1, rather 2 spinners, the 2nd one being a decent all-rounder like Shadab along with Yasir. You have no idea actually how spinners work & what they can achieve with a proper field set, under a Captain that uses them to get wickets rather than containing batsmen - you can revisit your earlier posts regarding a spinner who doesn't bat much & then again check the latest NZ-SAF Test score card.

    At least, this time Asia tour has taught you something that Moeen Ali's won't work much here - hence the filter comes, in Australia. Don't worry - Moeen will get his chance this winter, preferably 5 times, to show us what he can do. I only hope that he is picked all 5 Tests for that.

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    It may be early days, but Maharaj looks to be better than both of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    He is a part timer. Your talking about including more of a specialist spinner.

    I don't have an issue with the idea I just don't see Pakistan think tank going with it.

    I wouldn't mind a seam bowling all rounder playing. We are due to play England next year in the early part of the summer when the ball will seam and swing . So we should try to develop a seam bowling all rounder.
    Yes but this guy (Shadab) won't have to bowl more than 15 overs a day (unless he's outperforming other bowlers), and his main job will be to give the main bowlers some rest. Plus, he can get us 30-40 runs per innings too.

    I'd love a pace bowling A/R too but try thinking realistically - neither Yamin nor Hammad were even in the 31-man squad. Amad is raw. Fahim doesn't seem very convincing but let's see how he goes.


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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yasir was also dropped for a Test in NZ.
    Because Pakistan wanted to play four pacers on a lawn. Not because he was so rubbish that he lost his place as Pakistan's #1 spinner.

    Yasir Shah is a better spinner than Ashwin. Everyone with eyes to see and a brain to think knows this. Not everyone is willing to admit it though. Both of them failed in Australia, both succeeded in Sri Lanka but Shah had a great series in England while Ashwin was totally anonymous there. Shah also bowls on flat tracks in the UAE while Ashwin gets a bunch of rank turners every other series in India. Shah is also the best spinner in his country while Ashwin isn't the best from India.

    Don't believe me? Ask Harbhajjan, Ganguly or even Ashwin's own coach, after his tenure ends.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    It may be early days, but Maharaj looks to be better than both of them.
    Lol. No, you guys are just terrible, like you've always said.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    That was a tactical switch where 4 seamers were played whereas Ashwin was dropped for Jadeja
    India had replacement for Ashwin in Jadeja and thats why they dropped him. Perhaps Pakistani management didnt have confidence in the replacement for Yasir. Just because Ashwin was dropped doesnt make Yasir better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LastManstanding View Post
    India had replacement for Ashwin in Jadeja and thats why they dropped him. Perhaps Pakistani management didnt have confidence in the replacement for Yasir. Just because Ashwin was dropped doesnt make Yasir better.
    No. Yasir didnt play because pitch was greener than outfield.

    Btw Yasir hadnt been taken to the cleaners or anything by then anyway so there wasnt a dropping due to form


    #MPGA

  45. #45
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    Smacked for 14 by PSP Handscomb. That's right, a PSP console just took him out of the attack in his own den. @shaz619 @Red Devil

    But no, he wasn't dropped for Jadeja!


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    No. Yasir didnt play because pitch was greener than outfield.

    Btw Yasir hadnt been taken to the cleaners or anything by then anyway so there wasnt a dropping due to form
    Sorry, I quoted wrong post of yours. Was talking about Aus series not NZ series.


    Dravid's remarkable career is proof that nice guys don't finish last - Steve Waugh

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Lol. No, you guys are just terrible, like you've always said.
    Yasir played in Aus and NZ recently... he was awful. Maharaj has done miles better than him on both tours.

    IIRC, Yasir was even dropped for the second Test here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LastManstanding View Post
    Sorry, I quoted wrong post of yours. Was talking about Aus series not NZ series.
    ok get your point now

    Yes obv thats true. But the reason why i said it in first place was that Ashwin was 'spared' from a worse record while Yasir didnt get same luxury


    #MPGA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Ashwin was economical unlike Yasir who got thrashed, and he has done better in every country except for England, and that is why he is better than Yasir.

    End of thread.
    Yasir has won two tests overseas, Ashwin has won none.

    End of thread.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Yasir played in Aus and NZ recently... he was awful. Maharaj has done miles better than him on both tours.

    IIRC, Yasir was even dropped for the second Test here.
    Stop being so ignorant. Shah bowled around 10 overs on a green pitch in New Zealand and Pakistan played four pacers in the second match. Maharaj is playing on turners because your rubbish team can't muster up the courage to lay out green pitches for the Saffers.


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  51. #51
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    Ashwin: Outbowled by Moeen Ali in England, Nathan Lyon in Australia. Outbowled and embarrassed by the only two good spinners to tour India in years, Swann and Panesar.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  52. #52
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    Have Lyon and O'Keefe outbowled Ashwin in this series? Sad.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Stop being so ignorant. Shah bowled around 10 overs on a green pitch in New Zealand and Pakistan played four pacers in the second match. Maharaj is playing on turners because your rubbish team can't muster up the courage to lay out green pitches for the Saffers.
    LOL did you watch the games? They were most certainly not turners, especially the second match at the Basin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Smacked for 14 by PSP Handscomb. That's right, a PSP console just took him out of the attack in his own den. @shaz619 @Red Devil

    But no, he wasn't dropped for Jadeja!
    As soon as they serve up a pitch that's not a raging turner, the ATG fails to make any impact, even on the fifth day.

    Imagine if this dude played most matches of his career on the roads of UAE like Yasir!

  55. #55
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    I'll be shocked if Bradman gets a game ahead of Jadeja outside the SC.

    Will concede the game if you play both.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    LOL did you watch the games? They were most certainly not turners, especially the second match at the Basin.
    The first test match wasn't a turner where NZ played two spinners and left out Southee? You're telling me NZ gave six wickets to Maharaj on a pitch that offered no turn in the second match? LOL. What a garbage team.


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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    The first test match wasn't a turner where NZ played two spinners and left out Southee? You're telling me NZ gave six wickets to Maharaj on a pitch that offered no turn in the second match? LOL. What a garbage team.
    Yeah, so garbage they smashed so called worlds best spinner outta of the side months earlier


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    As soon as they serve up a pitch that's not a raging turner, the ATG fails to make any impact, even on the fifth day.

    Imagine if this dude played most matches of his career on the roads of UAE like Yasir!
    He would be third choice behind Zulfiqar Chacha. The Baba can "keep things quiet" better and that is the most important thing according to a few posters here.

    LOL at all who were calling him an ATG and saying he will be a legendary all-rounder like Imran.

    Thank you, Aussies. You have busted the Ashwin-myth. Now lets give credit where it is due, Ashwin is a good spinner. He just isn't as good as Yasir Shah, the best spinner in the world, and most certainly will never become a great player.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 20th March 2017 at 19:52.


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    The first test match wasn't a turner where NZ played two spinners and left out Southee? You're telling me NZ gave six wickets to Maharaj on a pitch that offered no turn in the second match? LOL. What a garbage team.
    Maharaj is the best spinner in the world.

    People like you would fail to realise for obvious reasons.

  60. #60
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    Maharaj is the best spinner to have toured NZ in a long time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Ashwin vs Yasir turns into NZ v SAF.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    Maharaj is the best spinner in the world.

    People like you would fail to realise for obvious reasons.
    Lol. Yes, people like me who have a functioning brain will realize that Maharaj has a long way to go to even get close to being the best spinner in the world.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Lol. Yes, people like me who have a functioning brain will realize that Maharaj has a long way to go to even get close to being the best spinner in the world.
    His guile and flight is unmatched by any spinner in world cricket.

    Sure he's barely played, but mark my words this guy will be on top in two years.

    He's better than the overrated Yasir and Ashwin.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Maharaj is the best spinner to have toured NZ in a long time.
    First tour to NZ as well.

    Bowled well in Australia too.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    First tour to NZ as well.

    Bowled well in Australia too.
    His record in a very strong FC system in SA is phenomenal.

    He's a very smart operator too, I have really high expectations of him. Hope to see him win SA a few series in the SC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    His record in a very strong FC system in SA is phenomenal.

    He's a very smart operator too, I have really high expectations of him. Hope to see him win SA a few series in the SC.
    Yep, he's got all the ingredients to succeed.

    He isn't the worst batsman either.

    What are you doing up so late anyways? Isn't it like 12am in NZ?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    Yep, he's got all the ingredients to succeed.

    He isn't the worst batsman either.

    What are you doing up so late anyways? Isn't it like 12am in NZ?
    I always stay up late lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Smacked for 14 by PSP Handscomb. That's right, a PSP console just took him out of the attack in his own den. @shaz619 @Red Devil

    But no, he wasn't dropped for Jadeja!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    As soon as they serve up a pitch that's not a raging turner, the ATG fails to make any impact, even on the fifth day.

    Imagine if this dude played most matches of his career on the roads of UAE like Yasir!
    Really good points I was just starting to think the same, Leggies have it harder as it is and for Yasir to have done so well on flat pitches in the UAE is a great achievement but we have taken him for granted. Ashwin does get the benefit of rank turners and in this instance strangely did not get the job done on a wicket which was similar to the ones in the UAE. Yasir shouldn't be defined by his AUS performance he has won us games in England, in AUS it was his debut tour down under and for any touring leg spinner it's going to be a challenge! he could have been handled a bit better as well although no denying the performance was below par but it's a bigger besti when you can't even do the job in your home or "adopted home"

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    On the evidence of the ongoing Border-Gavaskar, Jadeja is the man I would pick for overseas tours ahead of Yashwin

    You get a guarantee he'll keep it tight no matter where he bowls


    I smash and grab and stash the cash in plastic bags
    With raps that have pizzazz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    His guile and flight is unmatched by any spinner in world cricket.

    Sure he's barely played, but mark my words this guy will be on top in two years.

    He's better than the overrated Yasir and Ashwin.
    Maharaj is a promising talent but any videos of him where I can watch his unmatched guile and flight?

    I have seen a bit of him and I don't think he is a great proponent of flight at all. Maybe I haven't watched enough of him.

    There is not one set way to succeed as a spinner. You could succeed the Bishen Singh Bedi way or the Derek Underwood way.

    By the way, what's your thought on Jaddu's bowling these days mate? You should he was mediocre to the nth degree but seems like he is doing so well in even pattas these days.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Going against the grain? Okay

    Anyone who has seen Maharaj bowl in Aus and NZ would be impressed.

    Sure he hasn't been around long, but he has already performed well in two of the most difficult countries for spinners in the world, in his first tour. Still a long way to go, but his record so far in those countries puts him ahead of Yasir and Ashwin for mine.
    I watched the whole series in Australia and he didn't bowl that well.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    I watched the whole series in Australia and he didn't bowl that well.
    did better than Ashwin there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    did better than Ashwin there
    Aggregate of 4/162 and was only bowled for a couple of overs in his second match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Aggregate of 4/162 and was only bowled for a couple of overs in his second match.
    those figures were not bad in Aus, 4/150 in perth wasn't bad, his 5fers in NZ should remove any doubt about him being an average bowler
    Last edited by Citizen4; 20th March 2017 at 17:43.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    I watched the whole series in Australia and he didn't bowl that well.
    got Smith out on duck in the first innings of Perth test, that alone is a good achievement for him

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Ashwin 30.67 after 24 tests
    Yasir 31.51 after 23 tests

    Ashwin afterward played almost all matches, except 3 in WI, and lowered his average to 25.

    Yasir has not played any match yet since the conclusion of Australian tour.

    How come Ashwin is considered an iconic cricketer, world's best spinner, the Bradman of bowling and Yasir considered mediocre when both of them have similar stats after the conclusion of overseas tours?
    Is Ashwin really considered as all those things? Beyond India I havent seen any writers hype him up to that extent.

    Shah is the far superior away bowler and let's be honest, all of Shah's cricket has been away from home, on UAE pitches where the curators are Indian or Australian. Where's the so called home advantage? There is none.

    Plus Shah is the highest wicket taker after 18 tests in the history of the game.

    Ashwin however is a good decent bat on flat pitches and gets a lot of turn in India. I doubt he will ever be world class on English or SA pitches. Shah in the meanwhile, seems to have regressed and isnt given the confidence or attacking fields that a leggy requires, hopefully Sarfraz can change that.

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    Yasir is a quality bowler I think people are underestimating him here Winning 2 games in England is a fantastic spinner. Ashwin is a good bowler, I think he is having a bad series. Maybe he should skip the IPL and have some rest. Ashwin will be back no doubt.

    Mahraj is a good bowler, but not the best spinner in the world yet.

  78. #78
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    Seems like everyone is reciting from the same script so instead of quoting everyone and repeating myself, I will just add my two cents here and address most of the points from my perspective.

    Yasir did well in England, was good in two matches and dreadful in two, but he was completely exposed in Australia and that is what I feared when he was running through teams in UAE and Sri Lanka. It is normal for a spinner to not take wickets when there is no assistance, but he got smashed like no tomorrow - he got the Imran Tahir treatment.

    The sign of a top quality spinner is his ability to bowl both aggressively and defensively, and Yasir is clueless when it comes to the latter. He looks great when his tail is up and he is taking wickets, but he turns into a kitten when the batsmen take him on. He simply cannot contain, which is a big problem, and puts extra pressure on the other bowlers because it allows the batsmen to settle. However, when you bowl tight spells, you don't allow the batsmen to settle and other bowlers can capitalize. Ashwin though, can do both. He is both aggressive and defensive, which means that even when he is not taking wickets, he doesn't get smashed.

    It is true that Ashwin doesn't have any match-winning performances overseas yet, but he will get another shot in England soon. However, he has outperformed Yasir everywhere else where both have played, and now Yasir will get a chance to match him in the WI. Yasir was ahead of Ashwin before the Australian tour, but that is where the wheels came off. Let alone Ashwin, he is not even better than Jadeja. It is time we stop thumping our chests after the way he got exposed in Australia.

    All this talk of Ashwin getting out-bowled by Lyon and O'Keefe etc. does not mean much. In the UAE, Bishoo matched Yasir blow for blow, and he was supposedly bowling to the 'best spin playing team in the world', a myth that is peddled around on PP, even though I have lost count of the number of spinners who have pulled the rug underneath our feet in the last few years. Not to mention this whole talk of Ashwin getting dropped in SA is pointless as well, when Yasir himself got chopped in NZ. I am not interested in the excuse that it was a tactical change. The fact is that the management did not have faith in him bowling economically, and thus dropped him.

    Nonetheless, I'm simply flogging a dead horse here. It is a proven fact that Pakistani fans are the most delusional in the world. Almost every Pakistani player is better than their Indian counterpart in their opinion but somehow, India continues to outperform Pakistan in all formats. Enough of the fluke 2-2 series in England, where we played in late summer and got dry pitches, and England had a unsettled top-order of Hales, Vince and Ballance, while Anderson and Stokes were nursing injuries. Anderson was below his best because of his shoulder injury prior to the first Test, and Stokes only played 1 match. Anderson was in imperious form vs SL but his pace and swing was down vs Pakistan, and it is not just the conditions because if Woakes could swing the ball, so could Anderson. However, he wasn't at his best. It was a one-off performance and India have outperformed us on their overseas tours apart from that, so it simply shows that India is a better Test team than Pakistan, which is also true when you compare them man to man.

    That is all I have to say on this issue. Now I will let some folks continue to live in a parallel world where the overweight Shah is better than Ashwin.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Seems like everyone is reciting from the same script so instead of quoting everyone and repeating myself, I will just add my two cents here and address most of the points from my perspective.

    Yasir did well in England, was good in two matches and dreadful in two, but he was completely exposed in Australia and that is what I feared when he was running through teams in UAE and Sri Lanka. It is normal for a spinner to not take wickets when there is no assistance, but he got smashed like no tomorrow - he got the Imran Tahir treatment.

    The sign of a top quality spinner is his ability to bowl both aggressively and defensively, and Yasir is clueless when it comes to the latter. He looks great when his tail is up and he is taking wickets, but he turns into a kitten when the batsmen take him on. He simply cannot contain, which is a big problem, and puts extra pressure on the other bowlers because it allows the batsmen to settle. However, when you bowl tight spells, you don't allow the batsmen to settle and other bowlers can capitalize. Ashwin though, can do both. He is both aggressive and defensive, which means that even when he is not taking wickets, he doesn't get smashed.

    It is true that Ashwin doesn't have any match-winning performances overseas yet, but he will get another shot in England soon. However, he has outperformed Yasir everywhere else where both have played, and now Yasir will get a chance to match him in the WI. Yasir was ahead of Ashwin before the Australian tour, but that is where the wheels came off. Let alone Ashwin, he is not even better than Jadeja. It is time we stop thumping our chests after the way he got exposed in Australia.

    All this talk of Ashwin getting out-bowled by Lyon and O'Keefe etc. does not mean much. In the UAE, Bishoo matched Yasir blow for blow, and he was supposedly bowling to the 'best spin playing team in the world', a myth that is peddled around on PP, even though I have lost count of the number of spinners who have pulled the rug underneath our feet in the last few years. Not to mention this whole talk of Ashwin getting dropped in SA is pointless as well, when Yasir himself got chopped in NZ. I am not interested in the excuse that it was a tactical change. The fact is that the management did not have faith in him bowling economically, and thus dropped him.

    Nonetheless, I'm simply flogging a dead horse here. It is a proven fact that Pakistani fans are the most delusional in the world. Almost every Pakistani player is better than their Indian counterpart in their opinion but somehow, India continues to outperform Pakistan in all formats. Enough of the fluke 2-2 series in England, where we played in late summer and got dry pitches, and England had a unsettled top-order of Hales, Vince and Ballance, while Anderson and Stokes were nursing injuries. Anderson was below his best because of his shoulder injury prior to the first Test, and Stokes only played 1 match. Anderson was in imperious form vs SL but his pace and swing was down vs Pakistan, and it is not just the conditions because if Woakes could swing the ball, so could Anderson. However, he wasn't at his best. It was a one-off performance and India have outperformed us on their overseas tours apart from that, so it simply shows that India is a better Test team than Pakistan, which is also true when you compare them man to man.

    That is all I have to say on this issue. Now I will let some folks continue to live in a parallel world where the overweight Shah is better than Ashwin.
    @Mamoon if Shadab does well in limited overs, Pakistan should look to introduce him in tests in an year or two, He has alot of variations and has shown good skills for a leg spinner particularly at this age, hope he keeps up work ethic, Can be a good upgrade to Yasir, And not to forget looks to have genuine potential as a Batsman as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Yes but this guy (Shadab) won't have to bowl more than 15 overs a day (unless he's outperforming other bowlers), and his main job will be to give the main bowlers some rest. Plus, he can get us 30-40 runs per innings too.

    I'd love a pace bowling A/R too but try thinking realistically - neither Yamin nor Hammad were even in the 31-man squad. Amad is raw. Fahim doesn't seem very convincing but let's see how he goes.

    I prefer to have 2 different spin options. So either a left arm spinner or right arm off spinner. I don't think we will pick 2 leg break bowlers as I said.

    Yep don't see any of them 4 being picked. Stuck with developing spin bowling all rounders.

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