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  1. #1
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    Do Bangladesh still deserve to be tagged as "minnows"?

    After a heroic 100th test for the Tigers I decided to ask the question whether or not Bangladesh still deserve the Minnow tag.

    Bangladesh have performed outstandingly in the past 2 years. It all started in the 2015 World Cup when they knocked out England and qualified for the QF's.

    They may have not gone any further than the QF's in the World Cup but the rode that momentum forward to win consecutive ODI Series including teams like Pakistan, South Africa, and India. They eventually lost 2 ODI Series to an extremely good England and New Zealand side. But even in the losses Bangladesh were extremely competitive.

    Their Test Match form has not been as great as their LOI form but they have certainly competed. Beating England and Sri Lanka in a match and drawing the series both times. They are certainly no slugs and have what it takes to become a top team.

    My question is do you think Bangladesh deserve to be labeled a minnow, after there success in the past 2 years?


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  2. #2
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    @MMHS would love to hear from you regarding this.

    Mods would it be possible to add a poll?


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    @MMHS would love to hear from you regarding this.

    Mods would it be possible to add a poll?
    I'll definitely write something, but not today.

  4. #4
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    Definitely minnows in tests, but are improving

  5. #5
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    They need to win a home series against one of the top 7 sides (not counting West Indies who are probably worse than Bangla at this point). Winning 1 or 2 match out of 10 is fluke. A series win will get rid of the minnow tag permanently. Test cricket is more about attitude and mental fortitude, which the bangla boys sorely lack. You need to perform and grind on when it really matters (like Australia did yesterday, or India did in first test against England)

    However they could win a series very soon, so that's inspiring. All said, they're still minnows

  6. #6
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    No, they are not.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  7. #7
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    I won't mind till we win series (home or away) against all test nations. You keep calling us minnow and we keep improving. Doesn't matter what you call us. We just want to improve. Cheers .


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  8. #8
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    They have moved on from "everyday minnow" to "once in a while minnow" status.

  9. #9
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    They're still minnows until they start winning consistently. Getting there though. The series in South Africa will be a test of how much progress has been made.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    They're still minnows until they start winning consistently. Getting there though. The series in South Africa will be a test of how much progress has been made.
    If we don't have any injuries, I expect us to do better than Sri Lanka did a few months ago.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    They're still minnows until they start winning consistently. Getting there though. The series in South Africa will be a test of how much progress has been made.
    Will you give a stat of how many series Pak and ind win in SA???


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Will you give a stat of how many series Pak and ind win in SA???
    This is not about Pak and ind, if Bangladesh do well in SA, then it means this team has improved alot and will gain respect from everyone.I can see lots of nan-bengalis supporting Bangladesh against SA.

  13. #13
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    In Tests they still have a long way to go. They have only won NINE games in their history in Tests. That is 72 less than the next team. So in Tests they are still not the top side.

    However:

    Are they expected to give a fight to other top nations? Yes
    Can they beat the other top nation, atleast in ODIs T20s? Yes

    So no, they are not really minnows anymore.
    Last edited by Pakpak; 20th March 2017 at 20:06.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Will you give a stat of how many series Pak and ind win in SA???
    If you're going to play the stats game, don't. Otherwise it is not pretty for Bangladesh.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    If you're going to play the stats game, don't. Otherwise it is not pretty for Bangladesh.
    No game. I just wanted to know as I don't know.


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    No game. I just wanted to know as I don't know.
    I think a few Test wins here and there, but no series win. We had a great chance to win the series there during Asif days but we squandered it.

  17. #17
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    Yes. Zimbabwe wins once in a while too. They are still minnows. Bangla are probably the king of the minnows tho

  18. #18
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    Does Pakistan deserve to be tagged as minnows in ODI and T20?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messiah View Post
    Yes. Zimbabwe wins once in a while too. They are still minnows. Bangla are probably the king of the minnows tho
    Zimbabwe have only won a handful of ODIs against half-strength sides due to random stoppages in play and the resulting DL formula. The one Test they won was by a mere 20 odd runs vs Pakistan who are very unpredictable side once losing in the WC to a Bangladesh team that couldn't even beat Canada.

  20. #20
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    I don't consider them minnows anymore.

  21. #21
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    Bangladesh aren't minnows any longer. 2015 shredded it in ODIs and this win vs SL shreds it for Tests.

    However, Bangladesh will need to at least make the semi-finals of an ICC tournament (World Cup, CT, WT20) to get the next level of respect like Sri Lanka did.

  22. #22
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    No, they are better than Pakistan and WI in ODIs and better than WI in tests. They are not minnows anymore.

  23. #23
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    No,they have improved a lot.

  24. #24
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    I see CSA scheduled two tests at some of our lesser known cricket venues. In fact Senwes Park has only ever seen one test and that was against Bangladesh in 2002. Whether or not that indicates that CSA views them as a minnow remains to be seen.

    Who can forget the humbling we got in ODIs the last time we met? If I remember correctly, we weren't the only side to be humiliated I also seem to remember the Aussies chickening out of touring there.

    Tests are another story though. Until they can replicate that sort of home form in tests as well they will always be viewed as a minnow. Practice makes perfect and, unfortunately, individual cricketers have played more tests than Bangladesh. That however is another topic altogether.

  25. #25
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    Need to win a ICC tourney or be ranked no 1 at some point to not be a classed a minnow.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandiasza View Post
    I see CSA scheduled two tests at some of our lesser known cricket venues. In fact Senwes Park has only ever seen one test and that was against Bangladesh in 2002. Whether or not that indicates that CSA views them as a minnow remains to be seen.

    Who can forget the humbling we got in ODIs the last time we met? If I remember correctly, we weren't the only side to be humiliated I also seem to remember the Aussies chickening out of touring there.

    Tests are another story though. Until they can replicate that sort of home form in tests as well they will always be viewed as a minnow. Practice makes perfect and, unfortunately, individual cricketers have played more tests than Bangladesh. That however is another topic altogether.
    I think 'Considered as minnow' view can act as blessings for Bangladesh. With Minnow tag they would give 110% in each match to win it which in fact will make them better and better. If that happens then tag us minnow,i won't mind.


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat_Track_Bully View Post
    Need to win a ICC tourney or be ranked no 1 at some point to not be a classed a minnow.
    A lot of football teams were never ranked no 1 or won a world cup or any big tourney.

    Being non-minnow means showing potential to perform well more often than not.

    Bangladesh did that in ODIs and just starting to do so in tests

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    A lot of football teams were never ranked no 1 or won a world cup or any big tourney.

    Being non-minnow means showing potential to perform well more often than not.

    Bangladesh did that in ODIs and just starting to do so in tests
    Actually he doesn't know the definition of 'minnow' in cricket


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  29. #29
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    Nope, can't call them minnows anymore.

    The were only one DRS challenge of Moeen Ali in the first Test away from whitewashing England 2-0 in Tests at home. Got smacked by India but no worse than England and NZ. Very competitive against SL away.

    Lots of talent, and an upward trajectory. Need to develop calmness and concentration to compete up to their level of ability in Tests.

  30. #30
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    In our first series in India we won a test match in Lucknow.

    In our first series in England we won a test match at the Oval.

    We won our first series against New Zealand.

    In our first ever series and game, a one-off test, against Australia we won in Karachi, our fortress.

    In our first series in the West Indies we won at Port of Spain.

    We won our first home series against the West Indies.

    All this was achieved in the 1950's, yet till the late 1970's we were considered minnows until we went and drew against Australia in Australia and against the West Indies in the Caribbean. How can Bangladesh without a series win against any top side in tests or series win against any top side in any format outside Bangladesh not be considered a minnow? Drawing a series at home to an England team clueless against spin or drawing a series against a weakened Sri Lanka in similar subcontinental conditions does not take away the minnow tag.

    Bangladesh's true test where they could have shed their minnows tag came in New Zealand where they lost every single game across formats. Pakistan also lost both its tests to New Zealand but our last series win in New Zealand came in 2011 under our current captain. Bangladesh has to win a test match and at least draw a series in either Australia, England, South Africa or New Zealand before they can no longer be considered minnows. However, that day may not be far away. Till then they're minnows.


    The passion and the flame is ignited, you can't stop us once we light it!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    In our first series in India we won a test match in Lucknow.

    In our first series in England we won a test match at the Oval.

    We won our first series against New Zealand.

    In our first ever series and game, a one-off test, against Australia we won in Karachi, our fortress.

    In our first series in the West Indies we won at Port of Spain.

    We won our first home series against the West Indies.

    All this was achieved in the 1950's, yet till the late 1970's we were considered minnows until we went and drew against Australia in Australia and against the West Indies in the Caribbean. How can Bangladesh without a series win against any top side in tests or series win against any top side in any format outside Bangladesh not be considered a minnow? Drawing a series at home to an England team clueless against spin or drawing a series against a weakened Sri Lanka in similar subcontinental conditions does not take away the minnow tag.

    Bangladesh's true test where they could have shed their minnows tag came in New Zealand where they lost every single game across formats. Pakistan also lost both its tests to New Zealand but our last series win in New Zealand came in 2011 under our current captain. Bangladesh has to win a test match and at least draw a series in either Australia, England, South Africa or New Zealand before they can no longer be considered minnows. However, that day may not be far away. Till then they're minnows.
    Happy? Relax. We are not claiming.


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Happy? Relax. We are not claiming.
    Lol, I'm relaxed. Just wanted to put forth what I feel to be a fact. Bangladesh have already improved leaps and bounds since 2000 and long may they continue to do so.


    The passion and the flame is ignited, you can't stop us once we light it!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Will you give a stat of how many series Pak and ind win in SA???
    ODIs:
    Pakistan won 6, lost 11, NR 1
    India won 4, lost 14, NR 1
    Bangladesh won 0, lost 5, NR 0

    Tests:
    Pakistan won 2, lost 9, Draw 1
    India won 2, lost 8, Draw 7
    Bangladesh won 0, lost 4, Draw 0

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Cronie View Post
    ODIs:
    Pakistan won 6, lost 11, NR 1
    India won 4, lost 14, NR 1
    Bangladesh won 0, lost 5, NR 0

    Tests:
    Pakistan won 2, lost 9, Draw 1
    India won 2, lost 8, Draw 7
    Bangladesh won 0, lost 4, Draw 0
    Are you talking about matches or series??? And in SA??
    Last edited by Nil Dhumrojal; 21st March 2017 at 14:29.


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Are you talking about matches or series???
    Matches.

    Series:

    ODIs:
    Pakistan Won 1, Lost 3
    India Won 0, Lost 4
    Bangladesh Won 0, Lost 2


    Tests:
    Pakistan Won 0, Lost 4, Draw 1
    India Won 0, Lost 5, Draw 1
    Bangladesh Won 0, Lost 2

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Will you give a stat of how many series Pak and ind win in SA???
    Pakistan is the only Asian side to have won an odi series against South Africa in South Africa.

    Pakistan has also won a T20 series against South Africa in South Africa as have India.


    The passion and the flame is ignited, you can't stop us once we light it!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Cronie View Post
    Matches.

    Series:

    ODIs:
    Pakistan Won 1, Lost 3
    India Won 0, Lost 4
    Bangladesh Won 0, Lost 2


    Tests:
    Pakistan Won 0, Lost 4, Draw 1
    India Won 0, Lost 5, Draw 1
    Bangladesh Won 0, Lost 2
    Almost 70 years and no test series win!!!!


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Cronie View Post
    ODIs:
    Pakistan won 6, lost 11, NR 1
    India won 4, lost 14, NR 1
    Bangladesh won 0, lost 5, NR 0

    Tests:
    Pakistan won 2, lost 9, Draw 1
    India won 2, lost 8, Draw 7
    Bangladesh won 0, lost 4, Draw 0
    Waoh i thought india have done better than us in SA but they also struggled there ,less talk about

    bangladesh better we are

  39. #39
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    They have become the Zimbabwe of 90s now. Still need more improvement tbh.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    They need to win a home series against one of the top 7 sides (not counting West Indies who are probably worse than Bangla at this point). Winning 1 or 2 match out of 10 is fluke. A series win will get rid of the minnow tag permanently. Test cricket is more about attitude and mental fortitude, which the bangla boys sorely lack. You need to perform and grind on when it really matters (like Australia did yesterday, or India did in first test against England)

    However they could win a series very soon, so that's inspiring. All said, they're still minnows
    How difficult would it be when the test series is made of Two games? How many series the other top nations would win with only two away matches?


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Almost 70 years and no test series win!!!!
    Tests against SA have only been played after 1992.Thats 25 years.And thats 5 series too.

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    Bangladesh are definitely not minnows in any format,in Asian conditions atleast.

  43. #43
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    minnows in tests.....

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    Bangladesh will never lose the minnow tag to certain/very few/handful Pakistanis. Fact. If WI, SL loses to Bangladesh, then they would join the minnow ranks. Not the other way around.

    1st, it was can't beat anyone. Minnow. (legit)
    2nd, beat Pakistan. Must be match fixing. Of Course Minnow. (legit)
    3rd, Okay, beat Australia #1 team. Fluke. Still Minnow. (legit)
    4th, knock out India in WC, beat then #1 South Africa in the second round. Who cares? Still Minnow. (legit)
    5th, NZ loses 7 matches in a row. Who cares? Still Minnow.
    6th, beat England in a WC, at home, Still Minnow.
    7th, 2015 roles in, beat Pak 3-0 in ODIs; wait till India thrashes you guys. Still Minnow.
    8th, Ind loses 2-1, Yeah at home. Wait till SA destroys you guys. Still Minnow.
    9th, SA loses 2-1. Yeah at home. Wait till you play away matches. Still Minnow.
    10th, Beat England in another WC, not at home, Who cares? England is a minnow team now. Still Minnow.
    11th, England loses a test and barely survives another. Series 1-1. Nope, need more proof. Still Minnow.
    12th, loses to NZ with half team injured. TOLD YOU SO. MINNOW MINNOW and MINNOW.
    13th, Draws a test series at SL after losing both tosses, where Aus just got steamrolled. SL is the worst side ever. Double down D Trump style. Minnowest of the Minnow.

    As I said not everyone. but a selected few.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Bangladesh will never lose the minnow tag to certain/very few/handful Pakistanis. Fact. If WI, SL loses to Bangladesh, then they would join the minnow ranks. Not the other way around.

    1st, it was can't beat anyone. Minnow. (legit)
    2nd, beat Pakistan. Must be match fixing. Of Course Minnow. (legit)
    3rd, Okay, beat Australia #1 team. Fluke. Still Minnow. (legit)
    4th, knock out India in WC, beat then #1 South Africa in the second round. Who cares? Still Minnow. (legit)
    5th, NZ loses 7 matches in a row. Who cares? Still Minnow.
    6th, beat England in a WC, at home, Still Minnow.
    7th, 2015 roles in, beat Pak 3-0 in ODIs; wait till India thrashes you guys. Still Minnow.
    8th, Ind loses 2-1, Yeah at home. Wait till SA destroys you guys. Still Minnow.
    9th, SA loses 2-1. Yeah at home. Wait till you play away matches. Still Minnow.
    10th, Beat England in another WC, not at home, Who cares? England is a minnow team now. Still Minnow.
    11th, England loses a test and barely survives another. Series 1-1. Nope, need more proof. Still Minnow.
    12th, loses to NZ with half team injured. TOLD YOU SO. MINNOW MINNOW and MINNOW.
    13th, Draws a test series at SL after losing both tosses, where Aus just got steamrolled. SL is the worst side ever. Double down D Trump style. Minnowest of the Minnow.

    As I said not everyone. but a selected few.
    well, to be honest ine can create a longer list than that of Bangladeshi flaws and defeats. But I get your point.
    Basically to remove the minnow tag, Bangladesh have to become a world class test side and consistently perform away from home against the big boys outside Asia. In the 20th century the english and Australians used ti think the same way about Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka, Until they started winning both at home and away from home.
    Unless Bangladesh wins a world cup and becomes a formidable test side, minnow tag will not be removed.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Bangladesh will never lose the minnow tag to certain/very few/handful Pakistanis. Fact. If WI, SL loses to Bangladesh, then they would join the minnow ranks. Not the other way around.

    1st, it was can't beat anyone. Minnow. (legit)
    2nd, beat Pakistan. Must be match fixing. Of Course Minnow. (legit)
    3rd, Okay, beat Australia #1 team. Fluke. Still Minnow. (legit)
    4th, knock out India in WC, beat then #1 South Africa in the second round. Who cares? Still Minnow. (legit)
    5th, NZ loses 7 matches in a row. Who cares? Still Minnow.
    6th, beat England in a WC, at home, Still Minnow.
    7th, 2015 roles in, beat Pak 3-0 in ODIs; wait till India thrashes you guys. Still Minnow.
    8th, Ind loses 2-1, Yeah at home. Wait till SA destroys you guys. Still Minnow.
    9th, SA loses 2-1. Yeah at home. Wait till you play away matches. Still Minnow.
    10th, Beat England in another WC, not at home, Who cares? England is a minnow team now. Still Minnow.
    11th, England loses a test and barely survives another. Series 1-1. Nope, need more proof. Still Minnow.
    12th, loses to NZ with half team injured. TOLD YOU SO. MINNOW MINNOW and MINNOW.
    13th, Draws a test series at SL after losing both tosses, where Aus just got steamrolled. SL is the worst side ever. Double down D Trump style. Minnowest of the Minnow.

    As I said not everyone. but a selected few.
    This is unfair, no one will claim Bangladesh is a minnow if they start winning games against top sides away from home. This drawn series against Sri Lanka was a first and a massive achievement but it came in relatively familiar subcontinental conditions. Bangladesh has to win a test match and at least draw a series in any format in either Australia, England, South Africa or New Zealand before they can no longer be considered minnows.

    A non-minnow team has to be able to go to alien conditions and accumulate wins. Even after everything Pakistan had achieved in cricket it was still considered a minnow till the late 1970's until it toured Australia twice in that period and came back undefeated in both series and won a match on each tour.


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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    This is unfair, no one will claim Bangladesh is a minnow if they start winning games against top sides away from home. This drawn series against Sri Lanka was a first and a massive achievement but it came in relatively familiar subcontinental conditions. Bangladesh has to win a test match and at least draw a series in any format in either Australia, England, South Africa or New Zealand before they can no longer be considered minnows.

    A non-minnow team has to be able to go to alien conditions and accumulate wins. Even after everything Pakistan had achieved in cricket it was still considered a minnow till the late 1970's until it toured Australia twice in that period and came back undefeated in both series and won a match on each tour.
    Just because Pakistan was heavily underestimated during that period despite their stunning efforts when you factor in their lack of experience does not mean we underrate what Bangladesh have achieved at present. How many teams have taken to the international level in the same manner as Pakistan? very very few so that's not to say that BD are minnows until they achieve x,y,z when in the current era there are teams struggling to do just that! look how long it has been since AUS won a Test in asia?!


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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Just because Pakistan was heavily underestimated during that period despite their stunning efforts when you factor in their lack of experience does not mean we underrate what Bangladesh have achieved at present. How many teams have taken to the international level in the same manner as Pakistan? very very few so that's not to say that BD are minnows until they achieve x,y,z when in the current era there are teams struggling to do just that! look how long it has been since AUS won a Test in asia?!
    They just beat India in India like 2 weeks ago.....


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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    They just beat India in India like 2 weeks ago.....
    Wow is that what you took from that

    Lmao to spell it out for you, how long did it take them before they won 2 weeks ago?


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  50. #50
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    @A.A.Z Had AUS been a minnow for a long time then according to your logic since it took them 12 years before they won a Test in asia while Pakistan won on their first attempt? see where we are gong with this.....


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    Bangladesh still has a long way to go but lets appreciate their efforts thus far, how can I call them a minnow when the team is not the one in 1999 or 2003; they have earned the respect of opposition, underestimate them at your own peril as we saw in the 2015 WC. Ireland are a minnow, Afghanistan are a minnow; are Bangladesh really at that level?


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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    And how long did it take them before they won 2 weeks ago?
    If I recall correctly they beat Sri Lanka in the last series they played before they got whitewashed this time around. I get your point but you have to look at the fact that they beat Pakistan and Sri Lanka in the odi and t20 series at least the last time they toured.

    I'm not saying tests are the be all and end all for Bangladesh but they need to win a series or at least start accumulating wins against the top teams abroad in any format to shed the minnow tag.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 22nd March 2017 at 21:48.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    @A.A.Z Had AUS been a minnow for a long time then according to your logic since it took them 12 years before they won a Test in asia while Pakistan won on their first attempt? see where we are gong with this.....
    It took Pakistan till 1977 to win a match in Australia when we finally shed our minnow tag, Australia came to Pakistan in 1959 and beat us black and blue, showing they could beat us anytime anywhere as long as Fazal wasn't bowling on a matting wicket.


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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    If I recall correctly they beat Sri Lanka in the last series they played before they got whitewashed this time around. I get your point but you have to look at the fact that they beat Pakistan and Sri Lanka in the odi and t20 series at least the last time they toured.

    I'm not saying tests are the be all and end all for Bangladesh but they need to win a series or at least start accumulating wins against the top teams abroad in any format to shed the minnow tag. HBK had to beat The Hitman at Wrestlemania to achieve the boyhood dream, till then he was just a mid-carder, which in wrestling terms made him a minnow no matter how many times he stole the show.
    When did AUS last win a Test in asia? What year did they beat SL in SL? Not ODI or T20's, since Tests are the topic of discussion being the ultimate format.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 22nd March 2017 at 21:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    It took Pakistan till 1977 to win a match in Australia when we finally shed our minnow tag, Australia came to Pakistan in 1959 and beat us black and blue, showing they could beat us anytime anywhere as long as Fazal wasn't bowling on a matting wicket.
    Yet BD are not the team they were in 1999 and have acheived considerably since then, away wins will come but it's a big ask and will take time; we have test nations who have been playing a lot longee yet fail big time away. There is no barometer which suggests we should deem BD minnows jist because pak had a rare great entrance to the international level, BD have a long way to go but the label of a minnow does not do how far they have come justice

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    In LOIs, no.

    In Tests, yes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    When did AUS last win a Test in asia? What year did they beat SL in SL? Not ODI or T20's, since Tests are the topic of discussion being the ultimate format.

    The midcard then was not what it is now, the IC title was contested and had the prestige of an iterim world championship, participants in such a spot were in a great postion and often next in line for the main event level, the lower card was the minnow equivalent.

    Stealing the show did in fact elevate his status and got him over long before the torch was passed
    They beat Sri Lanka in 2011, which is this decade. Sri Lanka shed their minnow tag through success in odi's not tests so I'm pretty sure we can use odi's as a measuring stick.

    I take anyone not posing an threat to the world championship to be a minnow as they are insignificant in terms of the main prize. Wales may have reached the Euros semi but I knew they were never going to win and as such I categorise them as a minnows with one superstar player and 3-4 more top quality players.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 22nd March 2017 at 21:49.


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    They are not minnows

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    Objectively speaking, Bangladesh has definitely come a long way in ODI cricket and I don't think they can be tagged as a minnow nation in the LOI formats. They have developed solid players who now have a lot of experience . . and now we are also starting to see some real good talent emerge, people like Sabbir . .

    In test match cricket though, Bangladesh still has a long way to go . . again, not to say they haven't improved . . they most definitely have . . but winning one off games doesn't strip you of any tag . . they need to start winning consistently . . if not winning, then drawing games consistently . . home and away . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    In our first series in India we won a test match in Lucknow.

    In our first series in England we won a test match at the Oval.

    We won our first series against New Zealand.

    In our first ever series and game, a one-off test, against Australia we won in Karachi, our fortress.

    In our first series in the West Indies we won at Port of Spain.

    We won our first home series against the West Indies.

    All this was achieved in the 1950's, yet till the late 1970's we were considered minnows
    That is your personal standard for the word "minnow".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Bangladesh will never lose the minnow tag to certain/very few/handful Pakistanis. Fact. If WI, SL loses to Bangladesh, then they would join the minnow ranks. Not the other way around.

    1st, it was can't beat anyone. Minnow. (legit)
    2nd, beat Pakistan. Must be match fixing. Of Course Minnow. (legit)
    3rd, Okay, beat Australia #1 team. Fluke. Still Minnow. (legit)
    4th, knock out India in WC, beat then #1 South Africa in the second round. Who cares? Still Minnow. (legit)
    5th, NZ loses 7 matches in a row. Who cares? Still Minnow.
    6th, beat England in a WC, at home, Still Minnow.
    7th, 2015 roles in, beat Pak 3-0 in ODIs; wait till India thrashes you guys. Still Minnow.
    8th, Ind loses 2-1, Yeah at home. Wait till SA destroys you guys. Still Minnow.
    9th, SA loses 2-1. Yeah at home. Wait till you play away matches. Still Minnow.
    10th, Beat England in another WC, not at home, Who cares? England is a minnow team now. Still Minnow.
    11th, England loses a test and barely survives another. Series 1-1. Nope, need more proof. Still Minnow.
    12th, loses to NZ with half team injured. TOLD YOU SO. MINNOW MINNOW and MINNOW.
    13th, Draws a test series at SL after losing both tosses, where Aus just got steamrolled. SL is the worst side ever. Double down D Trump style. Minnowest of the Minnow.

    As I said not everyone. but a selected few.
    BD are definitely not minnows in ODIs dont think anyone says that anymore. But they are still minnows in Tests. You cannot argue they are not, with only 9 wins in single digits in this format. A draw against England and Sri Lanka doesn't change that until there is more consistency. Which there will be in my opinion.
    Last edited by Pakpak; 22nd March 2017 at 08:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Bangladesh will never lose the minnow tag to certain/very few/handful Pakistanis. Fact. If WI, SL loses to Bangladesh, then they would join the minnow ranks. Not the other way around.

    1st, it was can't beat anyone. Minnow. (legit)
    2nd, beat Pakistan. Must be match fixing. Of Course Minnow. (legit)
    3rd, Okay, beat Australia #1 team. Fluke. Still Minnow. (legit)
    4th, knock out India in WC, beat then #1 South Africa in the second round. Who cares? Still Minnow. (legit)
    5th, NZ loses 7 matches in a row. Who cares? Still Minnow.
    6th, beat England in a WC, at home, Still Minnow.
    7th, 2015 roles in, beat Pak 3-0 in ODIs; wait till India thrashes you guys. Still Minnow.
    8th, Ind loses 2-1, Yeah at home. Wait till SA destroys you guys. Still Minnow.
    9th, SA loses 2-1. Yeah at home. Wait till you play away matches. Still Minnow.
    10th, Beat England in another WC, not at home, Who cares? England is a minnow team now. Still Minnow.
    11th, England loses a test and barely survives another. Series 1-1. Nope, need more proof. Still Minnow.
    12th, loses to NZ with half team injured. TOLD YOU SO. MINNOW MINNOW and MINNOW.
    13th, Draws a test series at SL after losing both tosses, where Aus just got steamrolled. SL is the worst side ever. Double down D Trump style. Minnowest of the Minnow.

    As I said not everyone. but a selected few.
    That's exactly the vibe I get reading the some user's post here for a number for years. There seems to be always a new standard set each time to being a non minnow.

    I have a question for some, If X and Y teams have never won an ODI series vs a Top eight team and are considered minnows, should team Z who have won multiple series vs top teams including test wins which are harder to come by be considered in the same category? Also keeping in mind team Z are above in rankings over another team P who are non minnows in a format for I think many months now.
    Last edited by Bangladesh_Fan; 22nd March 2017 at 08:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    They beat Sri Lanka in 2011, which is this decade. Sri Lanka shed their minnow tag through success in odi's not tests so I'm pretty sure we can use odi's as a measuring stick.

    I take anyone not posing an threat to the world championship to be a minnow as they are insignificant in terms of the main prize. Wales may have reached the Euros semi but I knew they were never going to win and as such I categorise them as a minnows with one superstar player and 3-4 more top quality players.

    The HBK example was more figurative since he's an exception, he was already a 2 time rumble winner and already had a few match of the years on his cv. But, he was still considered a scrawny male stripper, with incredible in ring ability, being handed favours by Vince until he finally got the top prize.
    When did AUS beat SL in SL in a Test in 2011, scorecard? Your goal posts have changed since your reasoning behind BD's alleged minnow status does not stand up. By your definition 50% of international teams much be minnows then
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 22nd March 2017 at 21:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    BD are definitely not minnows in ODIs dont think anyone says that anymore. But they are still minnows in Tests. You cannot argue they are not, with only 9 wins in single digits in this format. A draw against England and Sri Lanka doesn't change that until there is more consistency. Which there will be in my opinion.
    The poster AAZ is using ODI's as the measuring stick now as well to point out BD's minnow status even more nonsensical

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    I would love to be tagged as that 'minnow' who would thrash all the big boys I won't mind with that tag.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    I would love to be tagged as that 'minnow' who would thrash all the big boys I won't mind with that tag.
    Exatctly sides underestimate BD at their own peril, a rude awakening will follow but I think most teams respect them and won't be complacent, especially England they have been humbled

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Exatctly sides underestimate BD at their own peril, a rude awakening will follow but I think most teams respect them and won't be complacent, especially England they have been humbled
    I think it is beneficiary to be minnow at other's eyes. Being underdog gives you freedom to play with your full potential. It brings out most of your ability. If I am that good to beat you then what is the matter of what I am called or not. Please call us minnow and we will talk with performance. Cheers to 'being all time minnow no matter what to some hater's blind mind'. Cheers.


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    A start has been made by them.They are still minnows but they are on right path. If they keep on going like this they would earn the respect and get rid of minnow tag.

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    Bangladesh are definitely on the right track and are moving in the right direction.

    As for the "minnow" tag - that's a matter of opinion.

    For me I would simply say that they are a team who should be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions. Nothing more, or nothing less at this stage.

    The reason behind that is as follows:

    This performance....



    ...- at this moment in time - does not do enough to negate the conclusions which can been drawn by this performance....



    Similarly this performance (even though it's very impressive which is why I feel Bangladesh deserve to be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions).....



    ...- at this moment in time - does not do enough to negate the conclusions which can been drawn by this performance....



    Finally, this performance....



    ...- at this moment in time - does not do enough to negate the conclusions which can been drawn by this performance....



    So as mentioned at the start - even though Bangladesh have made very promising progress in the last two years, at this stage - as far as I'm concerned, they are a team which should be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions. Based on the above you could even argue that they should only be taken seriously in ODI cricket in sub-continental condition.

    Their decent performance (and it has been nothing more than that) over the last two years does not wipe out their performance in the 29 years prior to that which earned them the 'minnow' tag.

    Bengali cricket is on the right tracks but IMO they still need a few more years of decent performances around the world before they can be taken seriously across the board in all formats of cricket.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalhaSyed View Post
    Bangladesh are definitely on the right track and are moving in the right direction.

    As for the "minnow" tag - that's a matter of opinion.

    For me I would simply say that they are a team who should be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions. Nothing more, or nothing less at this stage.

    The reason behind that is as follows:

    This performance....



    ...- at this moment in time - does not do enough to negate the conclusions which can been drawn by this performance....



    Similarly this performance (even though it's very impressive which is why I feel Bangladesh deserve to be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions).....



    ...- at this moment in time - does not do enough to negate the conclusions which can been drawn by this performance....



    Finally, this performance....



    ...- at this moment in time - does not do enough to negate the conclusions which can been drawn by this performance....



    So as mentioned at the start - even though Bangladesh have made very promising progress in the last two years, at this stage - as far as I'm concerned, they are a team which should be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions. Based on the above you could even argue that they should only be taken seriously in ODI cricket in sub-continental condition.

    Their decent performance (and it has been nothing more than that) over the last two years does not wipe out their performance in the 29 years prior to that which earned them the 'minnow' tag.

    Bengali cricket is on the right tracks but IMO they still need a few more years of decent performances around the world before they can be taken seriously across the board in all formats of cricket.
    Yeah they earned respect in ODI's, once they are consistent at the Test level at home more often then not they'd have shaken of their tag completely because when you look at many of the teams around the world they tend to struggle away from home; AUS for example in recent times had not won a Test in asia until 10-12 years and lost all their Test matches in lanka while BD have done better them by winning a Test there. They are on the right track though, hopefully this is a big turning point; they need to get use to winning, I do believe that as it stands at their best they can beat any team at home but they've not found themselves in such a position before and dealing with that pressure of putting someone away even when you're on top is often taken for granted.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Yeah they earned respect in ODI's, once they are consistent at the Test level at home more often then not they'd have shaken of their tag completely because when you look at many of the teams around the world they tend to struggle away from home; AUS for example in recent times had not won a Test in asia until 10-12 years and lost all their Test matches in lanka while BD have done better them by winning a Test there. They are on the right track though, hopefully this is a big turning point; they need to get use to winning, I do believe that as it stands at their best they can beat any team at home but they've not found themselves in such a position before and dealing with that pressure of putting someone away even when you're on top is often taken for granted.
    Yup absolutely.

    They need to start winning consistently at home - across all 3 formats - and becoming more competitive away from home - across all 3 formats - over an extended period of time, before they can shake off the tag (which they earned over a 29 year period) completely.

    The Bangladeshi team has played very average cricket for a long time - with the occasional flash in the pan performance - for them to be able to shake off the tag so easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TalhaSyed View Post
    Yup absolutely.

    They need to start winning consistently at home - across all 3 formats - and becoming more competitive away from home - across all 3 formats - over an extended period of time, before they can shake off the tag (which they earned over a 29 year period) completely.

    The Bangladeshi team has played very average cricket for a long time - with the occasional flash in the pan performance - for them to be able to shake off the tag so easily.
    They deserve leeway when it comes to expectations to win away they need to be toned down when many teams around the world struggle to do just that in this era. At the Test level we've seen very little but in recent times we've seen that they're progressing, we saw signs in NZ and in the BD home series vs ENG and now finally got the job done in lanka by winning a Test even when the mighty AUS failed to


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    They deserve leeway when it comes to expectations to win away they need to be toned down when many teams around the world struggle to do just that in this era. At the Test level we've seen very little but in recent times we've seen that they're progressing, we saw signs in NZ and in the BD home series vs ENG and now finally got the job done in lanka by winning a Test even when the mighty AUS failed to
    Oh yea absolutely.

    With the current state of world cricket - no team is expected to win away from home, specially in Test cricket, so it will be unfair to expect Bangladesh to be any different.

    However, Bangladesh need to win - IMO particularly at Test cricket - more often at home, and be more competitive away from home, for an extended period of time, to not be considered minnows.

    Now, I know "being competitive" is a very subjective way of measuring something, so let me elaborate on that.

    The fact is that since the 1st of Jan 2015 (which is when Bang really started doing well at home), they have only won 1 match away from home (in any format) - last weeks Test win VS SL.

    The only teams who have a worse W/L ratio away from home in the last 2 years are Oman & U.A.E. All the other teams have won more matches (bar Nepal who have won the same number of matches) and have a better W/L ratio away from home than Bangladesh - including the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan, Netherlands, Scotland, Hong Kong and P.N.G

    Now I know the likes of Afg, Ire, Scot, PNG etc. are not playing against 'the big teams', but that stat shows very clearly why Bang are still considered minnows in the 'big team league', and how poor their performance away from home conditions has been.

    They have played 13 games away from home since 2015 and in those 13 they have won 1 against SL last week. They were competitive in 1 T20 game VS India where they lost by 1 run because they started celebrating too early, couldn't score 1 run to win off the last 3 deliveries and lost 3 wickets in the last 3 balls. Apart from that in the other 11 games, they only lost 1 game by less than 47 runs (27 run defeat in a T20 VS NZ) and 1 game by less than 6 wickets (3 wicket defeat in a ODI VS NZ).

    I wouldn't deem that 'competitive' by any stretch of the imagination.

    Meanwhile you add to that the fact that in Test & T20 cricket, their over all record (as posted in post #69) in the last 2 years is pretty poor and nothing to rave about. AND then you have the fact that they have played very average cricket for 29 years, and only been playing half decent cricket in certain formats and certain conditions for the last two years.

    The fact that some Bengali fans think that based on that sort of performance Bangladesh no longer deserve to be called minnows is ridiculous in my opinion.

    As we are both saying - Bangladesh are on the right tracks and are doing very well. They should be taken seriously in LO matches, specially in sub-continental conditions. No one is expecting them to win consistently away from home, but if they want to lose the 'minnow' label they really need to start winning more Test matches and T20's at home (thus improving their overall record) and at least be competitive away from home for an extended period of time - specially after being so poor for so long.

  74. #74
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    In ODIs they are a very competitive team and I think they can win ODI series away from home as well.

    However in Tests, they will struggle a lot outside subcontinent.

    Btw when is Bangladesh next tour outside subcontinent ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    The poster AAZ is using ODI's as the measuring stick now as well to point out BD's minnow status even more nonsensical
    Nah, they are not minnows in ODIs for sure. They have won enough matches now.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalhaSyed View Post
    Oh yea absolutely.

    With the current state of world cricket - no team is expected to win away from home, specially in Test cricket, so it will be unfair to expect Bangladesh to be any different.

    However, Bangladesh need to win - IMO particularly at Test cricket - more often at home, and be more competitive away from home, for an extended period of time, to not be considered minnows.

    Now, I know "being competitive" is a very subjective way of measuring something, so let me elaborate on that.

    The fact is that since the 1st of Jan 2015 (which is when Bang really started doing well at home), they have only won 1 match away from home (in any format) - last weeks Test win VS SL.

    The only teams who have a worse W/L ratio away from home in the last 2 years are Oman & U.A.E. All the other teams have won more matches (bar Nepal who have won the same number of matches) and have a better W/L ratio away from home than Bangladesh - including the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan, Netherlands, Scotland, Hong Kong and P.N.G

    Now I know the likes of Afg, Ire, Scot, PNG etc. are not playing against 'the big teams', but that stat shows very clearly why Bang are still considered minnows in the 'big team league', and how poor their performance away from home conditions has been.

    They have played 13 games away from home since 2015 and in those 13 they have won 1 against SL last week. They were competitive in 1 T20 game VS India where they lost by 1 run because they started celebrating too early, couldn't score 1 run to win off the last 3 deliveries and lost 3 wickets in the last 3 balls. Apart from that in the other 11 games, they only lost 1 game by less than 47 runs (27 run defeat in a T20 VS NZ) and 1 game by less than 6 wickets (3 wicket defeat in a ODI VS NZ).

    I wouldn't deem that 'competitive' by any stretch of the imagination.

    Meanwhile you add to that the fact that in Test & T20 cricket, their over all record (as posted in post #69) in the last 2 years is pretty poor and nothing to rave about. AND then you have the fact that they have played very average cricket for 29 years, and only been playing half decent cricket in certain formats and certain conditions for the last two years.

    The fact that some Bengali fans think that based on that sort of performance Bangladesh no longer deserve to be called minnows is ridiculous in my opinion.

    As we are both saying - Bangladesh are on the right tracks and are doing very well. They should be taken seriously in LO matches, specially in sub-continental conditions. No one is expecting them to win consistently away from home, but if they want to lose the 'minnow' label they really need to start winning more Test matches and T20's at home (thus improving their overall record) and at least be competitive away from home for an extended period of time - specially after being so poor for so long.
    They need more games to ensure their development at the Test level, their progress should be judged relevant to other Test nations with a similar level of experience before they became a force, past results from many moons ago is an unfair metric to judge them based on the team they are at present which is much improved despite the obstacles they have faced in terms of the opportunity.

    New Zealand's first Test win was in their 16th series, and that was a dead rubber after West Indies already led 3-0. They won their first series after 39 years, 1-0 against Pakistan in 1969. Before that series they had won six Tests in 92. And even after that first series win it took them another ten years to win another. New Zealand's paramount moment was not a win but a drawn series against England. To get the 0-0 result after three Tests, they batted like statues for days on end after stacking their batting. They didn't win a Test, but they won respect, and slowly over the years they continued to get better.

    And it isn't just New Zealand. South Africa didn't win a Test until 15 years into their Test career, despite usually playing teams from England that included non first-class players, and third- or fourth-string teams. And in 1906, when they won, it was largely because they mastered the wrong'un before anyone in England knew much about it. Before that, they had lost every single Test they had played in bar one.

    India's first two series wins were against Pakistan and New Zealand, both of whom had not won a series at that point. It took India 29 years to beat England in a series. It was 19 years before they beat England in a Test, and 15 Tests.

    New teams don't get a lot of Tests. That was the same then as it is now. Bangladesh haven't played Australia in a decade. When they went into the first Test against England, they hadn't played a Test in over a year. The win over England was only their tenth Test against England in their 16-year history; recently England and Australia played that many against each other in less than 12 months.


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  77. #77
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    Also, Bangladesh couldn't really rely on a solid first-class structure. Until they were a Test nation, they had no first-class cricket of any kind. Their premier competition, the National Cricket League, had only started a year before. To be a consistent and top-quality Test team, having a quality first-class system is a must. They were learning to play Test cricket when they were learning how to make a first-class structure. Their chances of instant success, or any success, or just regular non-embarrassment, would have relied on a fair bit of luck. Like them being held back for no good reason for up to 50 years, as Sri Lanka were, or playing in another country's first-class set-up, as Zimbabwe had done, or somehow unearthing someone as talented as Fazal Mahmood while taking a few Test players from another country, like Pakistan did.

    @MMHS what do you make of the "minnow" tag and would you label BD as such?
    Last edited by shaz619; 22nd March 2017 at 12:44.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    They need more games to ensure their development at the Test level, their progress should be judged relevant to other Test nations with a similar level of experience before they became a force, past results from many moons ago is an unfair metric to judge them based on the team they are at present which is much improved despite the obstacles they have faced in terms of the opportunity.

    New Zealand's first Test win was in their 16th series, and that was a dead rubber after West Indies already led 3-0. They won their first series after 39 years, 1-0 against Pakistan in 1969. Before that series they had won six Tests in 92. And even after that first series win it took them another ten years to win another. New Zealand's paramount moment was not a win but a drawn series against England. To get the 0-0 result after three Tests, they batted like statues for days on end after stacking their batting. They didn't win a Test, but they won respect, and slowly over the years they continued to get better.

    And it isn't just New Zealand. South Africa didn't win a Test until 15 years into their Test career, despite usually playing teams from England that included non first-class players, and third- or fourth-string teams. And in 1906, when they won, it was largely because they mastered the wrong'un before anyone in England knew much about it. Before that, they had lost every single Test they had played in bar one.

    India's first two series wins were against Pakistan and New Zealand, both of whom had not won a series at that point. It took India 29 years to beat England in a series. It was 19 years before they beat England in a Test, and 15 Tests.

    New teams don't get a lot of Tests. That was the same then as it is now. Bangladesh haven't played Australia in a decade. When they went into the first Test against England, they hadn't played a Test in over a year. The win over England was only their tenth Test against England in their 16-year history; recently England and Australia played that many against each other in less than 12 months.
    Yes - every team went through a similar struggle and now its simply Bangladesh's turn. Teams such Ireland will be hoping that they get to go through it soon.

    Bangladesh are on the up and a Test win away from home is great for them, specially - as you said - with the limited opportunity they are given in the Test arena.

    However, that doesn't change the fact that as things stand right now - all things considered - they are still a minnow team who should be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions. Nothing more and nothing less.

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    They are the underdogs of cricket, they are not minnows anymore (provided they keep on improving of course).
    The next generation have to take it to the next level.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalhaSyed View Post
    Yes - every team went through a similar struggle and now its simply Bangladesh's turn. Teams such Ireland will be hoping that they get to go through it soon.

    Bangladesh are on the up and a Test win away from home is great for them, specially - as you said - with the limited opportunity they are given in the Test arena.

    However, that doesn't change the fact that as things stand right now - all things considered - they are still a minnow team who should be taken seriously in LO cricket in sub-continental conditions. Nothing more and nothing less.
    They had a decent world cup in AUS though and reached the QF, I just seem them as a decent ODI unit in general or else I'd have more confidence about us qualifying for the WC automatically. They're in the CT ahead of WI to, Pak have had a really bad run in ODI's in general and we're ranked below them as it stands if we call them really bad then what does that make our team; we have to give the little jobber some respek which has been earned. Both teams at their best pak and bd are capable of winning in any conditions although the bd unit is more stable but we've made some pivotal decisions in our little rebuilding phase and hopefully it works out for the best


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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