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  1. #161
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    dhoni should be kicked out , pant should be keeper that guy will be future superstar for india

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drreddymd View Post
    Without dhoni our test team is really clueless isn't it? Why can't we beg dhoni the master strategist to play tests as well?
    As a tactician , Dhoni is definitely leaps and bounds ahead of Kohli. With his age, He cannot manage tests anymore. But to compare Saha with Dhoni at this point is stupidity

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    You are giving Dhoni too much credit. His keeping is not a whole lot better. I can name 4 wktkeepers who are batting better than him.
    Based on IPL ? IPL doesn't transalte into international stats. 2 seasons of IPL to compare with over 10 years of International cricket to draw comparisons ?
    Also definite evidence of any current wicket keeper with better keeping skills than Dhoni ?

  4. #164
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    Rohit will score a triple ton against Pakistan

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    CT will probably be the last big tournament before World Cup. If selectors think sticking with experience is going to help, so be it. But after this, I expect young brigade to take over.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak_Fan View Post
    CT will probably be the last big tournament before World Cup. If selectors think sticking with experience is going to help, so be it. But after this, I expect young brigade to take over.
    I agree , I think Pant is the future but is he CT ready right now ? Don't think so.
    I don't think Virat leading the side without Dhoni being in the side for such a crucial tournament is a smart move. His captaincy skills aren't very savvy

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    I agree , I think Pant is the future but is he CT ready right now ? Don't think so.
    I don't think Virat leading the side without Dhoni being in the side for such a crucial tournament is a smart move. His captaincy skills aren't very savvy
    I used to believe in Dhoni, but the last over against WI (with Bravo of all people bowling) when he could not deliver I started losing faith.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I used to believe in Dhoni, but the last over against WI (with Bravo of all people bowling) when he could not deliver I started losing faith.
    I do feel that Dhoni is past his prime , the guy is 36 now , will be done by this year I think. However I do not see Dhoni as a batsman - Yes he's been an exemplary finisher in the game and everyone regards that however as a wicketkeeper primarily he's the best at what he does. His first job is that of a wicker keepr and he does extremely well in that - His run outs , stumpings have many a times changed the course of a game and no one else can do that . Saha wasn't the best with the gloves in the Australia series.
    Now as a Batsman in a big tourney like CT - I rather go with a guy who has done in the past rather than give a chance to a youngster and destroy his confidence.
    Captaincy - Virat is a blunder right now as a captain . I don't think his leadership skills are as close to Dhonis atm. Need him to guide Kohli for now.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Saha wasn't the best with the gloves in the Australia series.
    I don't know what series you saw. Saha was being called "Superman" for his wicketkeeping in the Australia series. His catch of Wade came at a critical time for India in the fourth innings of the 2nd Test.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I don't know what series you saw. Saha was being called "Superman" for his wicketkeeping in the Australia series. His catch of Wade came at a critical time for India in the fourth innings of the 2nd Test.
    He did drop some chances as well - against Kuldeep if I am not mistaken.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    He did drop some chances as well - against Kuldeep if I am not mistaken.
    Excuse me. Saha is the best wicket keeper in the world. He is miles ahead as a keeper dhoni ever was

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    He did drop some chances as well - against Kuldeep if I am not mistaken.
    He dropped catches in eng tests and not in aus tests. He didnt drop any catches of kuldeep

  13. #173
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    Final squad will be this me thinks.

    Rohit (Out of form)
    Rahul (returning from Injury)
    Kohli
    MSD (Past his prime. Will be like a farewell for him)
    Pant (Future Superstar)
    Jadhav (solid hitter)
    Pandya (No options)
    Jaddu
    Kuldeep/Ashwin
    Bhuvi (Best pacer in India for LOI right now).
    Bumrah (Great death bowling)

    I would not play Shami. He is returning from injury and did not look fit at all in IPL. His bowling also lacked venom. Not the same bowler. He needs some good first class games before he can come into the side.

    I am tempted to play Pandey in place of MSD. But MSD is too big a name to get dropped.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drreddymd View Post
    Excuse me. Saha is the best wicket keeper in the world. He is miles ahead as a keeper dhoni ever was
    If you think Saha is the best wicket keeper in the world and miles ahead of Dhoni , stop watching the sport

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Final squad will be this me thinks.

    Rohit (Out of form)
    Rahul (returning from Injury)
    Kohli
    MSD (Past his prime. Will be like a farewell for him)
    Pant (Future Superstar)
    Jadhav (solid hitter)
    Pandya (No options)
    Jaddu
    Kuldeep/Ashwin
    Bhuvi (Best pacer in India for LOI right now).
    Bumrah (Great death bowling)

    I would not play Shami. He is returning from injury and did not look fit at all in IPL. His bowling also lacked venom. Not the same bowler. He needs some good first class games before he can come into the side.

    I am tempted to play Pandey in place of MSD. But MSD is too big a name to get dropped.
    One of the reasons for Dhoni to be there is also the lack of Kohlis ability to captain , found it limiting against England and even with RCB

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    One of the reasons for Dhoni to be there is also the lack of Kohlis ability to captain , found it limiting against England and even with RCB
    Chief if you think Captaincy is the reason why you need Dhoni that you have lost it. The way he is playing currently is a big liability. All the decisions can be made off field. We do know that he will not score. We dont know if he is the better wicketkeeper. He is a dead man walking and nowing fully well he cannot score and picking him is called suicide.

    Pick a wicketkeeper who can score(saha/Karthick/Patel), pick a extra bowler. There is no margin for error in this game and you want to go with someone everyone for sure knows(including you) will fail with the bat. I am Dhoni fan too but there is a limit to this nonsense.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Chief if you think Captaincy is the reason why you need Dhoni that you have lost it. The way he is playing currently is a big liability. All the decisions can be made off field. We do know that he will not score. We dont know if he is the better wicketkeeper. He is a dead man walking and nowing fully well he cannot score and picking him is called suicide.

    Pick a wicketkeeper who can score(saha/Karthick/Patel), pick a extra bowler. There is no margin for error in this game and you want to go with someone everyone for sure knows(including you) will fail with the bat. I am Dhoni fan too but there is a limit to this nonsense.
    Games aren't won off the field, they are won on the field. The match against BD was won on the field. 2011 w/c final by Dhoni promoting himself was won on the field. I am not sure what crystal ball you are using but apparently you can tell he wouldn't score but his replacement definitely will ?

    Patel/Karthik have been TTF many a times - no need to bring dead horses back. Saha is good but I'd say he isn't suitable for CT at this point . If it were a bilateral series sure but for CT you need someone like Dhoni. With 30 runs needed in 15 balls - Saha isn't making the other captain think much or be concerned about field placement - Dhoni definitely brings that extra edge to the game.

    I am not a Dhoni fanatic but I do not believe in making moves for the sake of making moves. Don't jump ships in a haste - Saha and Pant are the future - that future is more than a CT away though .

  18. #178
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    I think if their is a time to invest in youngster it's now, infuse the young blood is the way forward, guy's like pant, Rana, iyer, pandey, hooda etc

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Games aren't won off the field, they are won on the field. The match against BD was won on the field. 2011 w/c final by Dhoni promoting himself was won on the field. I am not sure what crystal ball you are using but apparently you can tell he wouldn't score but his replacement definitely will ?

    Patel/Karthik have been TTF many a times - no need to bring dead horses back. Saha is good but I'd say he isn't suitable for CT at this point . If it were a bilateral series sure but for CT you need someone like Dhoni. With 30 runs needed in 15 balls - Saha isn't making the other captain think much or be concerned about field placement - Dhoni definitely brings that extra edge to the game.

    I am not a Dhoni fanatic but I do not believe in making moves for the sake of making moves. Don't jump ships in a haste - Saha and Pant are the future - that future is more than a CT away though .
    This is a difficult concept for you but a lot goes off the field and it gets executed on the field.

    I am not using any crystal ball but looking at the stuff real time. If everyone else can score in IPL and Dhoni does not then he has some issues. IPL is a very good matrix to measure what is going on and Dhoni gets an F.

    I am not making move for the sake of a move but trying to avert a train wreck. Dhoni needs to go. Dhoni brings no advantage to the team. Dead weight.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayuu View Post
    I think if their is a time to invest in youngster it's now, infuse the young blood is the way forward, guy's like pant, Rana, iyer, pandey, hooda etc
    You dont want to bring in some one now. It may be too much.

  21. #181
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    KL rahul set to miss champion trophy thats bad news for india

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Games aren't won off the field, they are won on the field. The match against BD was won on the field. 2011 w/c final by Dhoni promoting himself was won on the field. I am not sure what crystal ball you are using but apparently you can tell he wouldn't score but his replacement definitely will ?

    Patel/Karthik have been TTF many a times - no need to bring dead horses back. Saha is good but I'd say he isn't suitable for CT at this point . If it were a bilateral series sure but for CT you need someone like Dhoni. With 30 runs needed in 15 balls - Saha isn't making the other captain think much or be concerned about field placement - Dhoni definitely brings that extra edge to the game.

    I am not a Dhoni fanatic but I do not believe in making moves for the sake of making moves. Don't jump ships in a haste - Saha and Pant are the future - that future is more than a CT away though .
    Saha is not the future (at least not for LOIs! Even in tests, he just the present! The futures are someone else!) Otherwise rest of the points are well said! Its more like the titration test done in the Chemistry Lab a diode test in SC lab! For Dhoni to get replaced by someone else! Say if Dhoni is A and the other guy is B, then A has to charge towards negative and B has to start moving towards the positive at the same time! Once they get near the threshold point, B will look prominent! (If B simply blasts out his way and goes way past A then its more than welcome!) But at the moment A is still shining and looking bright! So there is no way B is going to appear as of now!

    See Dhoni may or may not perform in CT. Actually he is no more the mainstay player in the team! I think people are expecting too much from him (for his caliber) and since he is not meeting up to that, they want him to be replaced! It is the other guys in the team who needs to perform (Dhoni is no more the finisher!) but he can still do the supportive role required for the team (support in the sense through his brilliant keeping, run well between the wickets while his partners are scoring runs and give back the strike to them-guide them, guide the captain with his experience and things like that!) Actually all these secondary things which he is capable of doing were not regarded or observed properly in the past, because all our focus was at stronger things which he was doing! Now that he is not at his best, we should look at those things! If there is really that kind of strong replacement available I am sure Dhoni will be the first to make way!

    Dhoni may no more win you games like when 60 of 40 balls are required! (But now its the job of the others to do it AND definitely the man who is likely to replace doesn't seem like doing that job let alone the secondary jobs which I mentioned above!)

    Yes I tell we don't need Yuvaraj in this team, because even a guy like Jadeja is doing almost the job of Yuvaraj in the team! (Fielding, Bowling and also batting at times!) But Dhoni is still needed in this team for the balance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    This is a difficult concept for you but a lot goes off the field and it gets executed on the field.

    I am not using any crystal ball but looking at the stuff real time. If everyone else can score in IPL and Dhoni does not then he has some issues. IPL is a very good matrix to measure what is going on and Dhoni gets an F.

    I am not making move for the sake of a move but trying to avert a train wreck. Dhoni needs to go. Dhoni brings no advantage to the team. Dead weight.
    Ofcourse it isn't , I don't know how you can gauge what's difficult for me. Strategies are made in the dressing room but all goes out of the window when things don't go an planned in the field. Dhoni / Ponting / Smith all these guys have a great cricketing sense and that's what matters.
    Dhonis spontaneous stumptings, untraditional run outs are improvised on the field his field placements - decision to give J Sharma / Ishant Sharma / H Pandya crucial overs are his plans that have often worked.

    IPL isn't a tell tale for who to select - If you base team selection purely on IPL - then we would be playing Yusuf Pathan , Parthiv Patel , H Singh and Zaheer Khan in the CT. If Virat fails in the IPL or Jadeja doesn't do well - you would take them out of the team as well ?

    Dhoni will go but CT with only a month away isn't the time for someone inexperienced to step in.

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Ofcourse it isn't , I don't know how you can gauge what's difficult for me. Strategies are made in the dressing room but all goes out of the window when things don't go an planned in the field. Dhoni / Ponting / Smith all these guys have a great cricketing sense and that's what matters.
    Dhonis spontaneous stumptings, untraditional run outs are improvised on the field his field placements - decision to give J Sharma / Ishant Sharma / H Pandya crucial overs are his plans that have often worked.

    IPL isn't a tell tale for who to select - If you base team selection purely on IPL - then we would be playing Yusuf Pathan , Parthiv Patel , H Singh and Zaheer Khan in the CT. If Virat fails in the IPL or Jadeja doesn't do well - you would take them out of the team as well ?

    Dhoni will go but CT with only a month away isn't the time for someone inexperienced to step in.
    I dont know what sense you are talking about. All I can tell you is India underachieved under Dhoni.

    IPL is a very good parameter to go by.

    How do you look at IPL and come to this conclusion that Yusuf Pathan should be in the team. I come to the opposite conclusion. Kindly educate me regarding your way of thinking so that we can discuss this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RamLakhan View Post
    Saha is not the future (at least not for LOIs! Even in tests, he just the present! The futures are someone else!) Otherwise rest of the points are well said! Its more like the titration test done in the Chemistry Lab a diode test in SC lab! For Dhoni to get replaced by someone else! Say if Dhoni is A and the other guy is B, then A has to charge towards negative and B has to start moving towards the positive at the same time! Once they get near the threshold point, B will look prominent! (If B simply blasts out his way and goes way past A then its more than welcome!) But at the moment A is still shining and looking bright! So there is no way B is going to appear as of now!

    See Dhoni may or may not perform in CT. Actually he is no more the mainstay player in the team! I think people are expecting too much from him (for his caliber) and since he is not meeting up to that, they want him to be replaced! It is the other guys in the team who needs to perform (Dhoni is no more the finisher!) but he can still do the supportive role required for the team (support in the sense through his brilliant keeping, run well between the wickets while his partners are scoring runs and give back the strike to them-guide them, guide the captain with his experience and things like that!) Actually all these secondary things which he is capable of doing were not regarded or observed properly in the past, because all our focus was at stronger things which he was doing! Now that he is not at his best, we should look at those things! If there is really that kind of strong replacement available I am sure Dhoni will be the first to make way!

    Dhoni may no more win you games like when 60 of 40 balls are required! (But now its the job of the others to do it AND definitely the man who is likely to replace doesn't seem like doing that job let alone the secondary jobs which I mentioned above!)

    Yes I tell we don't need Yuvaraj in this team, because even a guy like Jadeja is doing almost the job of Yuvaraj in the team! (Fielding, Bowling and also batting at times!) But Dhoni is still needed in this team for the balance!
    I ma not expecting too much from Dhoni. I just want him to do his job which he is underperforming. He does not belong in the team.

  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    I dont know what sense you are talking about. All I can tell you is India underachieved under Dhoni.

    IPL is a very good parameter to go by.

    How do you look at IPL and come to this conclusion that Yusuf Pathan should be in the team. I come to the opposite conclusion. Kindly educate me regarding your way of thinking so that we can discuss this.
    If you feel India underachieved under Dhoni then either you don't understand the sport or you are completely biased against the man.

    Me indicating Yusuf pathan to be included was obviously sarcasm which you clearly missed. Yusuf Pathan can score 6 centuries in IPL , he shouldn't be around the international team. None of the players performing in IPL - harbhajan , pathan , karthik , etc. should be considered for selection. IPL performances isn't the parameter by which national side should be selected.

    I'v put forth my views on why Dhoni is integral to the team in my posts previously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    If you feel India underachieved under Dhoni then either you don't understand the sport or you are completely biased against the man.

    Me indicating Yusuf pathan to be included was obviously sarcasm which you clearly missed. Yusuf Pathan can score 6 centuries in IPL , he shouldn't be around the international team. None of the players performing in IPL - harbhajan , pathan , karthik , etc. should be considered for selection. IPL performances isn't the parameter by which national side should be selected.

    I'v put forth my views on why Dhoni is integral to the team in my posts previously.
    Pathan has not done anything in this IPL. I have no idea what you are talking about. Why does he deserve to be selected please explain.

    To me IPL is confirming my belief who the good batsman are. It does not point to Pathan.

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    What do people think of Iyer? Should he get a chance in the CT?

    Also, how about Manish Pandey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Pathan has not done anything in this IPL. I have no idea what you are talking about. Why does he deserve to be selected please explain.

    To me IPL is confirming my belief who the good batsman are. It does not point to Pathan.
    Pathan has done quite decent avg of 48.5 or take Uthappa for example 174 runs already . None of those performances mean anything on international level - they have been tried and tested. Doesn't replicate on the big state necessarily.

    IPL is a totally different ball game - Nitish Rana is the second highest run scorer right now and Maxwell is 16th and Kohli is 17th . Does that mean Rana is a better batsman than Kohli and Maxwell or even Amla ? Certainly not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    What do people think of Iyer? Should he get a chance in the CT?

    Also, how about Manish Pandey?
    If we go in with Gambhir , Rahul , Virat , Yuvi , Rahane , Rohit - I can see Pant/ Pandey as the back up

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    If we go in with Gambhir , Rahul , Virat , Yuvi , Rahane , Rohit - I can see Pant/ Pandey as the back up
    Normally I would say Gambhir, Yuvi and Rohit are over the hill... but Gambhir is setting IPL on fire, and Yuvi scored the 150 recently.

    Rohit has to step up, he hasn't been doing well recently.

    We could see some exciting batting from Pandya, most recently he scored 15* (4).

    We can use an experimental side against Pakistan to determine who is in form and who is not. Those who don't perform should be replaced in the later games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Normally I would say Gambhir, Yuvi and Rohit are over the hill... but Gambhir is setting IPL on fire, and Yuvi scored the 150 recently.

    Rohit has to step up, he hasn't been doing well recently.

    We could see some exciting batting from Pandya, most recently he scored 15* (4).

    We can use an experimental side against Pakistan to determine who is in form and who is not. Those who don't perform should be replaced in the later games.
    I can see a toss up between Yuvi and Panday/Pant - horses for courses. For Pak ill put Yuvi in . against Lanka I don't mind putting Pandey or Pant in. I feel more comfortble with Gambhir than Rohit. He's coming off an injury and seriously short of match practice

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Pathan has done quite decent avg of 48.5 or take Uthappa for example 174 runs already . None of those performances mean anything on international level - they have been tried and tested. Doesn't replicate on the big state necessarily.

    IPL is a totally different ball game - Nitish Rana is the second highest run scorer right now and Maxwell is 16th and Kohli is 17th . Does that mean Rana is a better batsman than Kohli and Maxwell or even Amla ? Certainly not.
    At this stage you are arguing because you like to argue.

    Let us stick with Pathan. He has played six innings and has not scored anything of notice. He is not even top 25/30 batsman.

    I dont know what your background in statistics is but let me point out cricket averages are not correct.

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    If we go in with Gambhir , Rahul , Virat , Yuvi , Rahane , Rohit - I can see Pant/ Pandey as the back up
    At this stage I would not have Rohit, Rahane and Yuvraj.

  35. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    At this stage you are arguing because you like to argue.

    Let us stick with Pathan. He has played six innings and has not scored anything of notice. He is not even top 25/30 batsman.

    I dont know what your background in statistics is but let me point out cricket averages are not correct.
    I'm going by your logic because you are basing Dhoni's inclusion on the base of IPL so I am going by the same accord and comparing the performances in the IPL . Why do you have trouble with that ? Kohli is at 17th , would you then not include him ?
    Yusuf pathan has scored 97 runs which is more than what Dhoni has so does that justify picking Pathan over Dhoni ?
    My background in statistics is actually quite impressive. Impressive enough to realize that MSD with 50.96 avg in over 249 innings does bring in a lot more confidence and dependability than Pant with no ODIs and Saha scoring 16 runs in 5 innings with an average 13.66 ( quite possible was unbeaten at the end ).
    Your arguments lack in logic what so ever.

  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    At this stage I would not have Rohit, Rahane and Yuvraj.
    Are you planning to go play yourself then ? Who would you have ?

  37. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    At this stage I would not have Rohit, Rahane and Yuvraj.
    You will not have Yuvraj when two days ago he scored 150 at a strike rate of 118? If we do have batsmen who are better than this then winning the championship will be a cakewalk for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    I'm going by your logic because you are basing Dhoni's inclusion on the base of IPL so I am going by the same accord and comparing the performances in the IPL . Why do you have trouble with that ? Kohli is at 17th , would you then not include him ?
    Yusuf pathan has scored 97 runs which is more than what Dhoni has so does that justify picking Pathan over Dhoni ?
    My background in statistics is actually quite impressive. Impressive enough to realize that MSD with 50.96 avg in over 249 innings does bring in a lot more confidence and dependability than Pant with no ODIs and Saha scoring 16 runs in 5 innings with an average 13.66 ( quite possible was unbeaten at the end ).
    Your arguments lack in logic what so ever.
    You are going by your own defined logic.

    I dont want either Dhoni or Pathan. You wanted Dhoni and somehow you made a case for Pathan and I gave my arguement against it.

    17th is not bad but IPL is pointing to his poor form right now. It was same against Australia. He should go.

    Dont throw old numbers like average of 50. Currently the trends points down. Karthick and Patel have a stronger case.

    Once again if you have this Ph.D in statistics you should know averages in cricket are quiet meaningless.

    IPL is a much better indicator that most others.

    Dhoni is done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    You will not have Yuvraj when two days ago he scored 150 at a strike rate of 118? If we do have batsmen who are better than this then winning the championship will be a cakewalk for us.
    Yuvraj is flat right now. I will take Uthapa over him. I will take Rahane over Yuvraj from batting perspective but will Rohit not being part of the team definitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Are you planning to go play yourself then ? Who would you have ?
    I have to work for living and I cannot afford to go. I will come up with my list at the end of IPL. I will wait till end of April to announce the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    You are going by your own defined logic.

    I dont want either Dhoni or Pathan. You wanted Dhoni and somehow you made a case for Pathan and I gave my arguement against it.

    17th is not bad but IPL is pointing to his poor form right now. It was same against Australia. He should go.

    Dont throw old numbers like average of 50. Currently the trends points down. Karthick and Patel have a stronger case.

    Once again if you have this Ph.D in statistics you should know averages in cricket are quiet meaningless.

    IPL is a much better indicator that most others.

    Dhoni is done.
    Dhoni Says hello from Pune ! 61 from 34 balls chasing against B Kumar .

    The logic stems from the nonsensical view of IPL being the benchmark to select an international team.
    IPL cricket is leaps and bounds different from international cricket and it's limited applicability should be recognized. Players like Virat/Dhoni were integral prior to IPL and even with scores of 0 throughout IPL would still remain integral. Not a hard concept.

    Averages are certainly not meaningless. They ofcourse are quite important.

  42. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Dhoni Says hello from Pune ! 61 from 34 balls chasing against B Kumar .

    The logic stems from the nonsensical view of IPL being the benchmark to select an international team.
    IPL cricket is leaps and bounds different from international cricket and it's limited applicability should be recognized. Players like Virat/Dhoni were integral prior to IPL and even with scores of 0 throughout IPL would still remain integral. Not a hard concept.

    Averages are certainly not meaningless. They ofcourse are quite important.
    Even a blind squirrle finds a nut. To be part of a team you need to perform consistently. If he does no problem.

    And yes, averages in cricket are flawed. They dont tell the whole story.

    If you score zero in all the games no you are not integral part of any team. Kohli is doing decently. IPL is tell is decent story of what is going on.

  43. #203
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    Dhoni is not finished as some thinks! But at the same time he need not have to be finished to be out of our national team, just that there is no adequate replacement available, as simple as that!

    IPL gives a clue about who is going in which direction, but it is certainly not a yardstick to pick a national team based on that! That will be foolish...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RamLakhan View Post
    Dhoni is not finished as some thinks! But at the same time he need not have to be finished to be out of our national team, just that there is no adequate replacement available, as simple as that!

    IPL gives a clue about who is going in which direction, but it is certainly not a yardstick to pick a national team based on that! That will be foolish...
    Exactly! The above poster does not understand this. We do not have adequate replacement ready. He's picking an international team on IPL based criteria.
    And Now Dhoni scored well in IPL and that's a fluke. You just can't please some people. Seeing how Delhi youngsters are crashing today, if you put them in CT that's a disaster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Even a blind squirrle finds a nut. To be part of a team you need to perform consistently. If he does no problem.

    And yes, averages in cricket are flawed. They dont tell the whole story.

    If you score zero in all the games no you are not integral part of any team. Kohli is doing decently. IPL is tell is decent story of what is going on.
    What consistency have you seen in any of Dhonis advocated replacement? Dhoni is one of the best finishers in the game imo and even if not there is no one else good enough to replace him right now

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    KL being out potentially is a big blow. Wouldn't be suprised if India went with Rahane.

    Also fascinated to see who India selected out of Yadav, Bhuvi,Shami (if fit), and Bumrah.

    Surely Yadav can't be left out on current form

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    KL being out potentially is a big blow. Wouldn't be suprised if India went with Rahane.

    Also fascinated to see who India selected out of Yadav, Bhuvi,Shami (if fit), and Bumrah.

    Surely Yadav can't be left out on current form
    Never thought India would have a list of seamers to choose from, we are spoiled for choices for once in our weakest dept.
    I think Bumrah and yadav should be definite, toss up between bhuvi and Shami. If Pandya chips in as the third steamer then Jadeja and Ashwin to go along

  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    KL being out potentially is a big blow. Wouldn't be suprised if India went with Rahane.

    Also fascinated to see who India selected out of Yadav, Bhuvi,Shami (if fit), and Bumrah.

    Surely Yadav can't be left out on current form
    Yadav should be in. Shami needs to show match fitness before getting selected.

  49. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    What consistency have you seen in any of Dhonis advocated replacement? Dhoni is one of the best finishers in the game imo and even if not there is no one else good enough to replace him right now
    Karthick is doing better. Let us wait till the end of season. If your mind is made up then no point debating.

  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Never thought India would have a list of seamers to choose from, we are spoiled for choices for once in our weakest dept.
    I think Bumrah and yadav should be definite, toss up between bhuvi and Shami. If Pandya chips in as the third steamer then Jadeja and Ashwin to go along

    Indian seamers could be deadly in bowling conditions. Worry about them on flat pitches though


    Pandaya will probably play as India doesn't have many power hitters. Ashwin and Jadeja will certainly play. So it will be 2 quick bowlers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Yadav should be in. Shami needs to show match fitness before getting selected.

    Bhuvi should start if it's seam/swing friendly conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Karthick is doing better. Let us wait till the end of season. If your mind is made up then no point debating.
    Well Karthik has been tried many times before , His keeping skills are in no way close to Dhoni's.
    And I dont think he is a big tourney player , in a tight chase for CT , Dhoni would be more suitable than Karthik. Karhtik has been out of the international team for a bit, you can't put him randomly in a big tourney like this.

  53. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Indian seamers could be deadly in bowling conditions. Worry about them on flat pitches though


    Pandaya will probably play as India doesn't have many power hitters. Ashwin and Jadeja will certainly play. So it will be 2 quick bowlers.
    I think Pandya , Bumrah , Umesh , Jadeja and Ashwin would be a good combination. Depending upon which team you are playing , don't mind rotating Shami and Bhuvi

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    I think Pandya , Bumrah , Umesh , Jadeja and Ashwin would be a good combination. Depending upon which team you are playing , don't mind rotating Shami and Bhuvi

    Ironically it could be Indias batting which costs them the tournament.

    Too relient on Kohli and lacks power hitters.

    I think bowlers can do well defending a score and in bowling friendly conditions. On flat pitches vs Australia, South Africa,and England batters can bat India out of the game.

  55. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Ironically it could be Indias batting which costs them the tournament.

    Too relient on Kohli and lacks power hitters.

    I think bowlers can do well defending a score and in bowling friendly conditions. On flat pitches vs Australia, South Africa,and England batters can bat India out of the game.
    Yeah the batting for once is concerning me as well. Rohit is woefully out of form , Dhawan is hit and miss. Thr young crop is too inexperienced to make much impact. Rahane may be the x factor - I don't forsee big scores in England and Rahane can steady the ship if needed.

  56. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Well Karthik has been tried many times before , His keeping skills are in no way close to Dhoni's.
    And I dont think he is a big tourney player , in a tight chase for CT , Dhoni would be more suitable than Karthik. Karhtik has been out of the international team for a bit, you can't put him randomly in a big tourney like this.
    The concern with Dhoni is that he won't last till 2019 WC. This is an ideal opportunity for us to try out a new WK like Pant for the next WC. Champions trophy, even though an important tournament, provides all teams with an ideal opportunity to test players for 2019. I have the same concern with Yuvi.

    The batting line up should be

    Openers - 2 out of Rohit, Dhawan and Rahul
    MO - Kohli, and 2 out of Pandey, Jadhav, Raina and 1 more youngster.
    WK - Pant or another WK
    AR - One out of the 2 Pandyas, depending upon the conditions.
    Spin options - 1/2 out of Ash, Jadeja and Kuldeep Yadav
    Pace bowling - 2/3 out of Yadav, Bhuvi, Bumrah and Shami.

  57. #217
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    SEMI FINALISTS confirm and might play Final as well but this time it's going to be some other team..
    I'll be rooting for Safers and Pakistan(just because I am a Pakistani)

  58. #218
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    Not a fan of Dawan. Has not been in good form for a while now. IPL should not judge his recent performance (pitches and condition will be different and so will the bowlers).

  59. #219
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    1. Rohit
    2. Dhawan/Rahane/Pant (Dhawans out of form but may be tried due to experience of playing big tournaments & his good record in them)
    3. Kohli
    4. Dhoni (I think he's almost finished but can't put in a newbie like Pandey at these crucial positions in CT)
    5.Yuvraj
    6. Jadhav
    7. Pandya
    8. Jadeja
    9. Ashwin
    10.Bhuvi
    11. Shami

    Reserves: Rahane, Bumrah, Umesh Yadav, Kuldeep, Chahal, Pant.
    Last edited by Abhilash93; 23rd April 2017 at 11:20.

  60. #220
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    I dont get it why is Rohit on anyones team?

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Well Karthik has been tried many times before , His keeping skills are in no way close to Dhoni's.
    And I dont think he is a big tourney player , in a tight chase for CT , Dhoni would be more suitable than Karthik. Karhtik has been out of the international team for a bit, you can't put him randomly in a big tourney like this.
    Per you arguement let us keep Dhoni in the team for next 100 years as he will have more experience than anyone else.

    I have seen Kartick keep. He is as good as Dhoni. Dhoni is flashy but has nothing to show for. He is done. Karthick is a better batsman. Dhoni does not have the best cricketing brain either. I think he is impulsive and dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    The concern with Dhoni is that he won't last till 2019 WC. This is an ideal opportunity for us to try out a new WK like Pant for the next WC. Champions trophy, even though an important tournament, provides all teams with an ideal opportunity to test players for 2019. I have the same concern with Yuvi.

    The batting line up should be

    Openers - 2 out of Rohit, Dhawan and Rahul
    MO - Kohli, and 2 out of Pandey, Jadhav, Raina and 1 more youngster.
    WK - Pant or another WK
    AR - One out of the 2 Pandyas, depending upon the conditions.
    Spin options - 1/2 out of Ash, Jadeja and Kuldeep Yadav
    Pace bowling - 2/3 out of Yadav, Bhuvi, Bumrah and Shami.
    Dhoni might be done by the end of this year but my concern only is with CT , We have enough time post CT to groom a new wk/batsman for the w/c but with CT in a month i don't think bringing a new player or previously failed keepers is an option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Per you arguement let us keep Dhoni in the team for next 100 years as he will have more experience than anyone else.

    I have seen Kartick keep. He is as good as Dhoni. Dhoni is flashy but has nothing to show for. He is done. Karthick is a better batsman. Dhoni does not have the best cricketing brain either. I think he is impulsive and dumb.
    Cerainly not, keeping Dhoni for the next 100 years is as illogical as most of your arguments.
    Karthik is very sub standard keeper and certainly not on par with Dhoni in terms of batting let alone wicket keeping skills. Dhoni may not have the best cricketing brain but he certainly does have quite a good cricketing brain and an effective leader. and that's what you need going into big tournies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Cerainly not, keeping Dhoni for the next 100 years is as illogical as most of your arguments.
    Karthik is very sub standard keeper and certainly not on par with Dhoni in terms of batting let alone wicket keeping skills. Dhoni may not have the best cricketing brain but he certainly does have quite a good cricketing brain and an effective leader. and that's what you need going into big tournies.
    Everytime you come and pontificate can you prove he is sub standard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Everytime you come and pontificate can you prove he is sub standard?
    I can just provide some numbers - their interpretation is yours only.
    Karthik ODIs 71 60 13 1313 79 27.93 1793 73.22
    Dhoni ODIs 286 249 67 9275 183* 50.96 10423 88.98

    In big tournaments - experience matters and Dhoni brings tons of it. His batting average is nearly double. and a superior SR.

    Wicket keeping - Dhoni 286 matches - 269 catches , 94 stumpings.
    Karthik - 71 matches - 49 catches , 7 stumpings.

    Even though I will disregard the catches - Your keeping skills are very important when it comes to stumpings and Dhoni's ratio is nearly 3:1 , Karthik is nearly 10:1
    If I compare Sangakkara - 404 matches - 402 catches and 99 stumpings - Ratio of 4:1 , similar to Dhonis. Again this isn't a black and white comparison but experience, ability , able to read the game all play a factor. and Dhoni's batting average is better than Sanga as well.

  66. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    I can just provide some numbers - their interpretation is yours only.
    Karthik ODIs 71 60 13 1313 79 27.93 1793 73.22
    Dhoni ODIs 286 249 67 9275 183* 50.96 10423 88.98

    In big tournaments - experience matters and Dhoni brings tons of it. His batting average is nearly double. and a superior SR.

    Wicket keeping - Dhoni 286 matches - 269 catches , 94 stumpings.
    Karthik - 71 matches - 49 catches , 7 stumpings.

    Even though I will disregard the catches - Your keeping skills are very important when it comes to stumpings and Dhoni's ratio is nearly 3:1 , Karthik is nearly 10:1
    If I compare Sangakkara - 404 matches - 402 catches and 99 stumpings - Ratio of 4:1 , similar to Dhonis. Again this isn't a black and white comparison but experience, ability , able to read the game all play a factor. and Dhoni's batting average is better than Sanga as well.
    Thanks! Here is the problem with your data. That was Dhoni when he clearly has peaked since then. That is why straight up averages. They mean nothing.

    We are not talking about a tournament that happened 3 to 5 years back. We are talking about tournament that is about to take place. Currently he is past his peak.

    Under similar conditions these are the numbers I have and you can come to any conclusion:

    Dhoni has one more catch but Dinesh has twice the runs. (IPL)

    Just remember that past performance is no gaurantee of future success.

    There are several wicketkeepers who are keeping better than him and there are several who are scoring more than him. Your man Dhoni does not walk on water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Thanks! Here is the problem with your data. That was Dhoni when he clearly has peaked since then. That is why straight up averages. They mean nothing.

    We are not talking about a tournament that happened 3 to 5 years back. We are talking about tournament that is about to take place. Currently he is past his peak.

    Under similar conditions these are the numbers I have and you can come to any conclusion:

    Dhoni has one more catch but Dinesh has twice the runs. (IPL)

    Just remember that past performance is no gaurantee of future success.

    There are several wicketkeepers who are keeping better than him and there are several who are scoring more than him. Your man Dhoni does not walk on water.
    Even though Dhoni has peaked which I do agree with, Him at this point is still better than his contemporaries. If there was a clear winner that was emerging from the pack ready to replace him , sure , but there is none.
    IPL is not the yard stick to select the national team - it's as simple as that.
    and secondly number of runs scored in IPL means nothing - what matters is how you perform under pressure and Dhoni has shown that at the highest international level as well as in this IPL . Dhoni can outmuscle a ball by just pure force hitting , Karthik lacks that ability.
    I'll tell you why averages are important because they take in consideration you pre peak , peak , post peak performance's all together ? If despite being past his prime and underperforming Dhoni still averages out twice as Karthik ( Remind you that Dhoni's average didn't drop from 100 to a 50 - he always hoevered around 50-55 number) so his post peak performance is also twice as good as Karthik.
    Secondly, Karthik with his age and amount of years he's played , should have hit his peak by now atleast if not past it. So if at his peak or post it - his numbers are quite awful. There's not more I can explain to you

  68. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    Even though Dhoni has peaked which I do agree with, Him at this point is still better than his contemporaries. If there was a clear winner that was emerging from the pack ready to replace him , sure , but there is none.
    IPL is not the yard stick to select the national team - it's as simple as that.
    and secondly number of runs scored in IPL means nothing - what matters is how you perform under pressure and Dhoni has shown that at the highest international level as well as in this IPL . Dhoni can outmuscle a ball by just pure force hitting , Karthik lacks that ability.
    I'll tell you why averages are important because they take in consideration you pre peak , peak , post peak performance's all together ? If despite being past his prime and underperforming Dhoni still averages out twice as Karthik ( Remind you that Dhoni's average didn't drop from 100 to a 50 - he always hoevered around 50-55 number) so his post peak performance is also twice as good as Karthik.
    Secondly, Karthik with his age and amount of years he's played , should have hit his peak by now atleast if not past it. So if at his peak or post it - his numbers are quite awful. There's not more I can explain to you
    Your pre peak and peak do not matter and should not matter. The only thing that matters is your current form. Ideally you want someone who is about to hit the peak. The teams that do well are the ones that peak at the right time. Dhoni is flat and he is done.

    Karthick and others are better prepared right now. IPL is extremely important as they all face the same bowlers and same pitches. Not too many variables to be debated. Your performance against same does matter and matters more than anything else in my view.

    Like I said Dhoni has definitely peaked and done. several others are out performing. No more.

  69. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ph_11 View Post
    Your pre peak and peak do not matter and should not matter. The only thing that matters is your current form. Ideally you want someone who is about to hit the peak. The teams that do well are the ones that peak at the right time. Dhoni is flat and he is done.

    Karthick and others are better prepared right now. IPL is extremely important as they all face the same bowlers and same pitches. Not too many variables to be debated. Your performance against same does matter and matters more than anything else in my view.

    Like I said Dhoni has definitely peaked and done. several others are out performing. No more.
    we'll have to agree to disagree then. IPL isn't a benchmark to select the national team. If my opinion weighs as much as yours let's leave it to the pros to make the best call. I'm sure you won't like it but we all can't be clueless

  70. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleaf27 View Post
    we'll have to agree to disagree then. IPL isn't a benchmark to select the national team. If my opinion weighs as much as yours let's leave it to the pros to make the best call. I'm sure you won't like it but we all can't be clueless
    Yes we have to agree to disagree and you are right I wont like it either as the so called pros will pick the team.

    The only thing we can agree on is that we hope India wins.

  71. #231
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    India taking a long time to name their squad. I think they'll go for Dhawan to replace Rahul at the top because of the formers record at that last CT in England.

  72. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    India taking a long time to name their squad. I think they'll go for Dhawan to replace Rahul at the top because of the formers record at that last CT in England.
    India won't announce the squad till April 27.
    End of ICC annual meeting.

    If the financial system goes against them, they will pull out of the tournament

  73. #233
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    So we could line up something like:

    Rohit
    Dhawan
    Kohli
    Dhoni (if he's going to play I'd rather see him up the order because he's not longer the finisher he was).
    Jadhav
    Yuvi or Pandya
    Jadeja
    Ashwin
    Bhuvi
    Bumrah
    Umesh

  74. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by fazleefridi View Post
    India won't announce the squad till April 27.
    End of ICC annual meeting.

    If the financial system goes against them, they will pull out of the tournament
    Good extra points for Pakistan then ,'your' team probably make it to semis if one more game washes out.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  75. #235
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    Don't even mind if India pulls out of the CT , focus should be on the big picture and that's the ICC - no need to back down

  76. #236
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    The squad will be announced tomorrow.

  77. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    So we could line up something like:

    Rohit
    Dhawan
    Kohli
    Dhoni (if he's going to play I'd rather see him up the order because he's not longer the finisher he was).
    Jadhav
    Yuvi or Pandya
    Jadeja
    Ashwin
    Bhuvi
    Bumrah
    Umesh
    I think Yuvi will be at 5, Jadhav at 6 and Pandya at 7. Umesh will be competing with Burma for the 2nd seamers spot.

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