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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Who here is looking forward to smackdown because of Nakamura?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Who here is looking forward to smackdown because of Nakamura?
    Count me in! Imagine the list of great matches:

    Nakamura vs AJ
    Nakamura vs Cena
    Nakamura vs Kevin Owens
    Nakamura vs Ellsworth


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Count me in! Imagine the list of great matches:

    Nakamura vs AJ
    Nakamura vs Cena
    Nakamura vs Kevin Owens
    Nakamura vs Ellsworth
    Nakamura v The Rock

    Imagine Heel Rock mimicking Nakamura's antics ����


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Nakamura v The Rock

    Imagine Heel Rock mimicking Nakamura's antics ����
    My little brother does it all the time he thinks Nakamura is a comedic character and doesn't take him seriously


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Nakamura v The Rock

    Imagine Heel Rock mimicking Nakamura's antics ����
    Hollywood Rock is the greatest version of Rock. Rocky worked 10 times hard to get the crowd to boo him and it worked. That narcissistic theme song along with the insane promos, that was hilarious stuff.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    My little brother does it all the time he thinks Nakamura is a comedic character and doesn't take him seriously
    I despise Vince's dated labels. WTH is "The Artist known as" Shinsuke Nakamura? He is the KING.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    I despise Vince's dated labels. WTH is "The Artist known as" Shinsuke Nakamura? He is the KING.
    Remember PUKE!!!! we're gonna call him PUKEEEE! YEAH THAT'S RIGHT DAMMIT! HE'S GONAAA PUKEEE!!!!



    Am sad that The Mizz is not on SD, he would have been the perfect heel for Nakamura's debut feud on the main roster


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  8. #88
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    Only watch Lesnar matches so he is my favorite since he had his first push against Rocky. I used to be a huge Goldberg fan back in his WCW days but the current Goldberg is just too mehh.. Loved his storyline against Lesnar though but it just wasn't the same..

  9. #89
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    Miz. but as a heel.
    face Miz is too bland

  10. #90
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    The New Daniel Bryan

    No doubt left that Bryan Danielson is one of the greatest professional wrestler of all time. His promos are may be in the top 3 of all time.

  11. #91
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    Mike Tyson was my fav wrestler


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    The New Daniel Bryan

    No doubt left that Bryan Danielson is one of the greatest professional wrestler of all time. His promos are may be in the top 3 of all time.
    Ok his promos are good but not in the top 3 of all time, I can think of a couple off the top of my head that are better - John Cena, CM Punk, Shawn Michaels The Miz, Chris Jericho, Stone Cold, The Rock, and Ric Flair. These guys are all comfortably better than Bryan on the mic who is good no doubt, but nowhere
    near the best of all time. Even right now the best mic worker is still Heyman, who did more to sell a whole episode of raw last night than the writers have been able to do in months.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Ok his promos are good but not in the top 3 of all time, I can think of a couple off the top of my head that are better - John Cena, CM Punk, Shawn Michaels The Miz, Chris Jericho, Stone Cold, The Rock, and Ric Flair. These guys are all comfortably better than Bryan on the mic who is good no doubt, but nowhere
    near the best of all time. Even right now the best mic worker is still Heyman, who did more to sell a whole episode of raw last night than the writers have been able to do in months.
    John Cena and the Miz? Most of the names you mentioned are inferior to him when it comes to cutting promos. Beides, all of their promos are very similar. If you have watched one, you have watched all of them.

    Bryan brings something very different to the table. His promos are completely different based on his gimmick.

    With Miz during NXT were about his frustration
    With Kane during Team Hell No were hilarious and about friendship
    With Cena & Triple H, it was all about being the best wrestler
    With New Daniel Bryan, they are the most innovative promos in a while about the environment

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    John Cena and the Miz? Most of the names you mentioned are inferior to him when it comes to cutting promos. Beides, all of their promos are very similar. If you have watched one, you have watched all of them.

    Bryan brings something very different to the table. His promos are completely different based on his gimmick.

    With Miz during NXT were about his frustration
    With Kane during Team Hell No were hilarious and about friendship
    With Cena & Triple H, it was all about being the best wrestler
    With New Daniel Bryan, they are the most innovative promos in a while about the environment
    Bryan is a very good mic worker as a heel or face and has been able to portray a variety of different personas but I wouldn't say the likes of Shawn, Punk, Flair etc are inferior. Cena is very good to as a heel and face, it's also a testament to his mic ability that he has managed to stay over despite portraying the same character for so long and having so much heat against him from hardcore fanbases. Mizz is incredible as a heel, and decent as a face on the mic but nothing special. HHH great as a heel and during the run with DX but the more you listen to him the more you want to put a bullet through your head.

    Bryan is largely under rated though be it in the ring or on the mic, most are also not familiar with his work during the 2000's when he put together one of the greatest resume's of all time when it came to technical wrestling.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  15. #95
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    As far as who the greatest mic worker of all time is, I highly doubt anyone will ever surpass Ric Flair.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  16. #96
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    Not following WWE for a long time now but always been a fan of Orton, and now Mustafa Ali.


    "but but vut about da pundits?!?!?!?!?!"

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    John Cena and the Miz? Most of the names you mentioned are inferior to him when it comes to cutting promos. Beides, all of their promos are very similar. If you have watched one, you have watched all of them.

    Bryan brings something very different to the table. His promos are completely different based on his gimmick.

    With Miz during NXT were about his frustration
    With Kane during Team Hell No were hilarious and about friendship
    With Cena & Triple H, it was all about being the best wrestler
    With New Daniel Bryan, they are the most innovative promos in a while about the environment
    Lmao dude if you think Cena, Punk, Shawn Jericho, Stone Cold, The Rock and Flair are inferior to Bryan on the mic you really don't know what your talking about dude. Sure Miz and Bryan may be about equal but Bryan is nowhere near those other guys.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    As far as who the greatest mic worker of all time is, I highly doubt anyone will ever surpass Ric Flair.
    1. Ric Flair
    2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
    3. The Rock

    Undisputed top 3 Mic workers for me. John Cena, HBK, and Y2J would be next on the list it would be tough to leave one of these guys out of the top 5 though as they are all so good on the mic.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  19. #99
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    1 Mustafa Ali
    2 Seth Rollins
    3 AJ Styles

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    1. Ric Flair
    2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
    3. The Rock

    Undisputed top 3 Mic workers for me. John Cena, HBK, and Y2J would be next on the list it would be tough to leave one of these guys out of the top 5 though as they are all so good on the mic.
    There's Dusty Rhodes, Piper, Superstar Billy Graham all these guys were so good. HBK is supremely under rated as well on the mic. Jericho has aged well given his insane performances so far out from his prime, it's a testament to his all time great pedigree. Undertaker doesn't get enough cred as well for knowing his different incarnations so well


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    There's Dusty Rhodes, Piper, Superstar Billy Graham all these guys were so good. HBK is supremely under rated as well on the mic. Jericho has aged well given his insane performances so far out from his prime, it's a testament to his all time great pedigree. Undertaker doesn't get enough cred as well for knowing his different incarnations so well
    Apart from Ric, Hogan, and Macho Man I don’t know much about the wrestlers pre 90’s. Since 1990 I’ve seen almost everything it feels like. And yeah I agree Undertaker is pretty good on the mic, I remember when he started that devilish character in 99 his promos were just great he knew that character so well. As for Jericho he’s a mastermind of this business, he can play the heel pr the face and get whatever reaction he wants, I mean how many guys can put a list over or the word “it” over. HBK was just spectacular in every part of the game. His mic work was highly underrated but I loved his comedic skits with HHH as DX in his last few years. And then that brief heel turn in 2005 OMG! Remember the Who’s your daddy? Segment in Montreal! Lmao that was hilarious, then his impersonation as Hulk Hogan had me rofl!


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Apart from Ric, Hogan, and Macho Man I don’t know much about the wrestlers pre 90’s. Since 1990 I’ve seen almost everything it feels like. And yeah I agree Undertaker is pretty good on the mic, I remember when he started that devilish character in 99 his promos were just great he knew that character so well. As for Jericho he’s a mastermind of this business, he can play the heel pr the face and get whatever reaction he wants, I mean how many guys can put a list over or the word “it” over. HBK was just spectacular in every part of the game. His mic work was highly underrated but I loved his comedic skits with HHH as DX in his last few years. And then that brief heel turn in 2005 OMG! Remember the Who’s your daddy? Segment in Montreal! Lmao that was hilarious, then his impersonation as Hulk Hogan had me rofl!
    That promo by HBK in Canada was epic lmao the thing which makes it so memorable is that it was in the 2000's and also his only heel run after the comeback, but if you look at his stuff in the late 90s it was equally good although some of it in poor taste given the nature of his relationship with Bret, both guys went all out and well below the belt during their feud lol HBK took all his anger of Hogan changing his mind about putting him over and put it all into the feud and match itself, it all made for a very memorable period, the showstopper protested in a way only he can, in the ring with a brilliant performance, that's the thing with Shawn, no matter what he feels or situation he is in mentally, the guy never cheats you when he wrestled.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    That promo by HBK in Canada was epic lmao the thing which makes it so memorable is that it was in the 2000's and also his only heel run after the comeback, but if you look at his stuff in the late 90s it was equally good although some of it in poor taste given the nature of his relationship with Bret, both guys went all out and well below the belt during their feud lol HBK took all his anger of Hogan changing his mind about putting him over and put it all into the feud and match itself, it all made for a very memorable period, the showstopper protested in a way only he can, in the ring with a brilliant performance, that's the thing with Shawn, no matter what he feels or situation he is in mentally, the guy never cheats you when he wrestled.
    I know I remember when Shawn had his match against Taker at Mania 26, it was so emotional because I did not want Shawn to retire and I certainly didn't want the streak to end. Shawn is the greatest wrestler I have ever seen perform in my life, I'm a huge AJ fan, and some people will even compare Shawn to AJ, but I still think Shawn is the greatest in ring performer I've seen live in action. AJ while isn't far off just because of the mere fact that he's performed at an elite level almost everywhere in the world when he wasn't supposed to be a top guy anywhere, is just below Shawn in my opinion.

    It's tough for me to compare the two of them as about 12-15 years back I wouldn't have even thought about comparing the two just because AJ was more of a high-flyer back then. Mind you AJ is the greatest high-flyer ever in my mind, the moves he was pulling 15 years back were UNHEARD of, but he has adapted to a more technical wrestling style in the past 10 years along with the aerial attack which he has wisely toned down to prolong his career, especially since going to NJPW. In my opinion, both HBK and AJ are very close when it comes to in-ring maybe with Shawn taking a slight edge over AJ, but it is hard to say for me. The real difference for me comes when we compare them overall as superstars. Shawn Michaels, according to several in the industry, is the closest thing WWE has ever had to the perfect pro-wrestling performer. He could be amusing and charismatic on the microphone his post 2002 run is a prime example of this. He was pretty strong for his comparatively small size, we all know what a high flyer he was, in my opinion he had the best moonsault in WWE in my opinion. Finally, when it came to wrestling a match in the ring, he always put on a clinic. He was, in my opinion, WWE's Ric Flair.

    Most WWE fans believed after Shawn Michael's retirement at Mania 26 they'd never get to see another performer enter a WWE Ring who could match the pure talent and 5-Star ability that HBK presented. His retirement at the hands of none other than the Undertaker stung, and fans were naturally emotional at the thought of never seeing another of his skill set ever again.

    Ever since AJ Styles made his WWE debut to a roaring response at the Royal Rumble back in 2016, we have all been treated to nothing less than all-around show-stopping ability from the former MR TNA. Styles has gone from strength to strength during his time in the WWE, enjoying high-profile feuds with some of the best in the business, such as Chris Jericho, Roman Reigns, John Cena, Kevin Owens, Shinsuke Nakamura and even a feud for the good old times with Joe! We all know what AJ has done in WWE but his excellence outside of WWE is what stands out for me. His matches in TNA when he was apart of the X-Divison were just awe-inspiring. AJ was not called a mastermind of offensive innovation for nothing by Byron Saxton during his debut entrance. You look at some of the moves he was pulling back in 2005 and you still don't see anyone perform moves like those. The freaking Fosbury Flop like how many people have ever done that?!? We all know AJ is a mastermind in the ring the more I think about it the gap between him and Shawn isn't that much in the ring, AJ had match of the night at Wresletmania 33 with Shane Freking McMahon, talk about stealing the show! The only place where AJ lies behind Shawn is mic work. Shawn was supremely good on the mic AJ whilst good is not the best, he is much better as a heel though in my opinion. So sad that we will never get to see AJ Styles v Shawn Michaels it has been number 1 dream match for a while, well maybe number 2 behind Undertaker vs Sting. But man could you imagine what a match the two could of out on even back in 2005.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    I know I remember when Shawn had his match against Taker at Mania 26, it was so emotional because I did not want Shawn to retire and I certainly didn't want the streak to end. Shawn is the greatest wrestler I have ever seen perform in my life, I'm a huge AJ fan, and some people will even compare Shawn to AJ, but I still think Shawn is the greatest in ring performer I've seen live in action. AJ while isn't far off just because of the mere fact that he's performed at an elite level almost everywhere in the world when he wasn't supposed to be a top guy anywhere, is just below Shawn in my opinion.

    It's tough for me to compare the two of them as about 12-15 years back I wouldn't have even thought about comparing the two just because AJ was more of a high-flyer back then. Mind you AJ is the greatest high-flyer ever in my mind, the moves he was pulling 15 years back were UNHEARD of, but he has adapted to a more technical wrestling style in the past 10 years along with the aerial attack which he has wisely toned down to prolong his career, especially since going to NJPW. In my opinion, both HBK and AJ are very close when it comes to in-ring maybe with Shawn taking a slight edge over AJ, but it is hard to say for me. The real difference for me comes when we compare them overall as superstars. Shawn Michaels, according to several in the industry, is the closest thing WWE has ever had to the perfect pro-wrestling performer. He could be amusing and charismatic on the microphone his post 2002 run is a prime example of this. He was pretty strong for his comparatively small size, we all know what a high flyer he was, in my opinion he had the best moonsault in WWE in my opinion. Finally, when it came to wrestling a match in the ring, he always put on a clinic. He was, in my opinion, WWE's Ric Flair.

    Most WWE fans believed after Shawn Michael's retirement at Mania 26 they'd never get to see another performer enter a WWE Ring who could match the pure talent and 5-Star ability that HBK presented. His retirement at the hands of none other than the Undertaker stung, and fans were naturally emotional at the thought of never seeing another of his skill set ever again.

    Ever since AJ Styles made his WWE debut to a roaring response at the Royal Rumble back in 2016, we have all been treated to nothing less than all-around show-stopping ability from the former MR TNA. Styles has gone from strength to strength during his time in the WWE, enjoying high-profile feuds with some of the best in the business, such as Chris Jericho, Roman Reigns, John Cena, Kevin Owens, Shinsuke Nakamura and even a feud for the good old times with Joe! We all know what AJ has done in WWE but his excellence outside of WWE is what stands out for me. His matches in TNA when he was apart of the X-Divison were just awe-inspiring. AJ was not called a mastermind of offensive innovation for nothing by Byron Saxton during his debut entrance. You look at some of the moves he was pulling back in 2005 and you still don't see anyone perform moves like those. The freaking Fosbury Flop like how many people have ever done that?!? We all know AJ is a mastermind in the ring the more I think about it the gap between him and Shawn isn't that much in the ring, AJ had match of the night at Wresletmania 33 with Shane Freking McMahon, talk about stealing the show! The only place where AJ lies behind Shawn is mic work. Shawn was supremely good on the mic AJ whilst good is not the best, he is much better as a heel though in my opinion. So sad that we will never get to see AJ Styles v Shawn Michaels it has been number 1 dream match for a while, well maybe number 2 behind Undertaker vs Sting. But man could you imagine what a match the two could of out on even back in 2005.
    I think every era has the best in-ring performer of the generation and Shawn / AJ are easily the best of their times in this regard. When it comes to High-Flyer's, AJ is up there but I have to disagree with you because Rey Mysterio's CV is scary no matter which country he toured the man was an innovator like no other and his pull as a baby face beyond Mexico and as a main stream phenomena is vastly under rated, in my view I'd up him up there with Cena when it comes to popularity, John edges him only due to the longevity but Mysterio is a household name in North America and that can never be doubted.

    Going back to AJ though, when it comes to his resume all around the world and consistency no one can really compete with him; as for the direct comparison with Shawn, if we just compare their skills then Shawn is well ahead because of his ability to tell a story in the ring, in-ring awareness and pacing. But this isn't an insult to AJ but Shawn is just on another stratosphere to majority of wrestlers; Ric Flair can compare skill for skill imo. In Japan there's a bloke called Okada who reminds me a little bit of Shawn in terms of his pacing and how smooth he is in the ring. But the same way how no one can ever surpass Shawn as the best of his generation, I don't feel like anyone can go past AJ in the same way either because of his consistency and that too pretty much every where in the world.

    Shawn even when he retired in 1998 after a severe injury, many believed he was the greatest; then he had that second run which was just so scary, it was hard to believe he hadn't lost a step and he showed his greatness in his very first match back against HHH at SS. On top of that you mentioned AJ having a great match with Shane, Shawn arguably stole the show at Mania 22 when he fought Vince! Speaking of Mania, has there ever been a performer to deliver so consistently on a monumental platform then HBK ? be in an area or an indoor / outdoor stadium Shawn just understands how to control the audience despite being in some seriously uncompatible situations


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I think every era has the best in-ring performer of the generation and Shawn / AJ are easily the best of their times in this regard. When it comes to High-Flyer's, AJ is up there but I have to disagree with you because Rey Mysterio's CV is scary no matter which country he toured the man was an innovator like no other and his pull as a baby face beyond Mexico and as a main stream phenomena is vastly under rated, in my view I'd up him up there with Cena when it comes to popularity, John edges him only due to the longevity but Mysterio is a household name in North America and that can never be doubted.

    Going back to AJ though, when it comes to his resume all around the world and consistency no one can really compete with him; as for the direct comparison with Shawn, if we just compare their skills then Shawn is well ahead because of his ability to tell a story in the ring, in-ring awareness and pacing. But this isn't an insult to AJ but Shawn is just on another stratosphere to majority of wrestlers; Ric Flair can compare skill for skill imo. In Japan there's a bloke called Okada who reminds me a little bit of Shawn in terms of his pacing and how smooth he is in the ring. But the same way how no one can ever surpass Shawn as the best of his generation, I don't feel like anyone can go past AJ in the same way either because of his consistency and that too pretty much every where in the world.

    Shawn even when he retired in 1998 after a severe injury, many believed he was the greatest; then he had that second run which was just so scary, it was hard to believe he hadn't lost a step and he showed his greatness in his very first match back against HHH at SS. On top of that you mentioned AJ having a great match with Shane, Shawn arguably stole the show at Mania 22 when he fought Vince! Speaking of Mania, has there ever been a performer to deliver so consistently on a monumental platform then HBK ? be in an area or an indoor / outdoor stadium Shawn just understands how to control the audience despite being in some seriously uncompatible situations
    Oh yeah I remember watching that match with HBK vs Vince, such an entertaining match it was. Just watching Vince get beat up, it was a no holds barred match if I recall and Shawn just beat the living hell outta Vince! I agree there has been no big match performer like Shawn Micheals. How many Wrestlemania classics did he even have, it's hard to keep track. No one knew how to handle the expectations and pressure to perform like HBK he lived for those big moments to show how good he was. I think all of HBK's matches at Mania were superb barring 3/4 at the beginning of his career. He must of had 10/11 classics which is insane. The most amazing string of performances at Wrestlemania for me, however, is The Undertaker's matches from Wrestlemania 23-29. A string of 7 matches against Batista, Edge, HBK, HHH, and CM Punk. All of which I'd say stole the show at those 7 Wrestlemania's. It was a great time to be an Undertaker fan with the streak at it's highest point ever and Undertaker continuously churning up classics. Don't think anybody has ever had such a string of 5 star matches at Mania.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Oh yeah I remember watching that match with HBK vs Vince, such an entertaining match it was. Just watching Vince get beat up, it was a no holds barred match if I recall and Shawn just beat the living hell outta Vince! I agree there has been no big match performer like Shawn Micheals. How many Wrestlemania classics did he even have, it's hard to keep track. No one knew how to handle the expectations and pressure to perform like HBK he lived for those big moments to show how good he was. I think all of HBK's matches at Mania were superb barring 3/4 at the beginning of his career. He must of had 10/11 classics which is insane. The most amazing string of performances at Wrestlemania for me, however, is The Undertaker's matches from Wrestlemania 23-29. A string of 7 matches against Batista, Edge, HBK, HHH, and CM Punk. All of which I'd say stole the show at those 7 Wrestlemania's. It was a great time to be an Undertaker fan with the streak at it's highest point ever and Undertaker continuously churning up classics. Don't think anybody has ever had such a string of 5 star matches at Mania.
    Shawn will always be Mr. Wrestlemania and Undertaker is up there to, I see these two performers as the greatest in the events history. What is your all time favourite HBK match from mania ?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Shawn will always be Mr. Wrestlemania and Undertaker is up there to, I see these two performers as the greatest in the events history. What is your all time favourite HBK match from mania ?
    Oof that's a tough one there are so many that pop into my mind I love all of the following:

    HBK vs Ric Flair Wrestlemania 24: Just the emotional value of this match alone makes it great for me. Ric Flair's career was on the line and HBK pulled out one of his best performances to make sure the nature boy got the farewell he deserved. In ring performance and wrestling aside just the emotions surrounding this match made it great for, if Edge V Taker wasn't the main event I would of been ****** that this didn't main event.

    HBK vs John Cena Wrestlemania 23: So yeah Taker/Batista probably had the match of the night this Mania, but in my mind this is an under appreciated classic. Yeah the story line heading into this match may not have been the best but oh boy did these two deliver in the ring. The narrative of John Cena's power and strength vs Shawn's speed dominated the early stages of the match, and none of the performers were getting one up on each other for most of the match, which made for a refreshing match. Some of the spots in the match like Michaels driving Cena through the steps with a pile driver was just great. Whilst yeah you can nitpick the odd hole in this match it was still a classic in my mind.

    HBK vs Bret Hard Wrestlemania 13: One of my favorite matches of all time! In my mind this is when HBK truly became Mr. Wrestlemania. Everything about this match from the entrances to the match-type made this match feel like a big moment. Some people may call the first half of the match a bit boring, but I say how can you call anything boring when HBK and Bret Hart are in the ring?!? Watching that first 30/40 minutes make the 20 thrilling minutes of this match so much more enjoyable. It's kind of like a classic test match. Starts off slow and of course some people can't handle it but once you get into the business end of the match it makes it so worth the wait.

    HBK vs Y2J Wrestlemania 19: So this was Mr. Wrestlemania's big return to the show of shows and what a rivalry and match to do it too! Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels have had a whole heap of classic matches in their career, which is a testament to their chemistry and this was just the first of them.

    HBK vs HHH vs Benoit Wrestlemania 20: We were what 1/2 years into the return of HBK from that gruesome injury and he had already found himself in the main event of the biggest show of the year! One of the if not the greatest triple threat match ever the only thing I find hard to put it ahead of is the Daniels V AJ V Joe at unbreakable 2005. I have both these matches as even stevens as it is hard for me to say one is better than the other. Don't be mistaken this was Benoit's night but don't forget both HHH and HBK's role in putting on the match of the year that year in my mind.

    HBK vs Kurt Angle Wrestlemania 21: So take two of the greatest professional wrestlers at the time and put them together in a ring, and the results will surely be an instant classic. That is exactly what happened as the two best wrestlers at the time in the world I'd say put on a match for the ages. Both of them brought their A game and their chemistry was just about as good as any two wrestlers ever considering the fact that this was their first time wrestling EVER! This match built to the most dramatic of finishes as I can still envision Shawn desperately trying to escape the Ankle lock to no avail.

    HBK vs Razor Ramon Wrestlemania 10: Back in 1994 a concept of a ladder match was fresh and exciting. I have gone back and seen both HBK and Scott Hall talk about this match and what they were thinking, feeling, and going through and it is just crazy to think what a match they had. Like you can not compare the ladder matches we see today to this match. These guys had one ladder, they had no bar set for them so they had to go out there and set a standard for what a ladder match should look like and boy did they.

    HBK vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 25: Two of the most iconic WWE Superstars who had battled each other and so many others across 2 decades, but it was their back to back Mania classics that for me are both of their best matches ever. As far as Taker's mania matches and the streak goes this was the one match for the first time in a while where you could say oh if anybody can beat Taker it's HBK. HBK used his deceptive quickness to his advantage throughout the match. The in ring psychology both these guys had was off the charts and they knew how to play the crowd. The finish of this match is just insanely good that "one mistake" HBK made going for that moonsault and getting caught to be tombstoned to the ground and get pinned, to put an end to what I believe was the greatest Mania match to that point.

    While many would say the Mania match between Taker and HBK is not only each individuals greatest Mania match but also the greatest Wrestlemania match I feel the match these two followed up with the next year was even better and the greatest Wrestlemania match ever. That is the Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 26 For my money the best match I have ever witnessed live I remember being there watching this match live in attendance at the University of Phoenix Stadium, a place I have gone to see a couple NFL games as well. And oh boy after putting on a classic a year before they somehow managed to top it. The mood in the crowd for this match was just different. This match stand out for me because the psychology throughout the match was perfect, the story of the obsession Michaels had of ending the streak was built into the match nicely, with Taker capitalizing on any mistakes Shawn made. The finish for this match is beautiful and story telling at it's best one of the most iconic moments in Mania history, with HBK beckoning the Deadman to finish him off and then even slapping him in the face to enrage the reaper. This match for me is the epitome of what pro wrestling should be, and all that is great about WWE, not only is it my favorite match ever but I got to watch it live! Furthermore I remember the tear sheds from everyone once HBK retired nobody in that stadium wanted Shawn to retire and no one wanted the streak to end either!


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  28. #108
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    For the record my undisputed top 3 Mania matches of all time are

    1. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 26
    2. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 25
    3. Stone Cold vs Bret Hart Wrestlemania 13

    Hard to leave out matches like Austin/Rock WM 17, Owen/Bret WM 10, Steamboat/Savage WM 3, TLC II WM 17, Taker/HHH Mania 28 (My favorite Hell in a Cell Match ever, also another match I seen live!)


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Oof that's a tough one there are so many that pop into my mind I love all of the following:

    HBK vs Ric Flair Wrestlemania 24: Just the emotional value of this match alone makes it great for me. Ric Flair's career was on the line and HBK pulled out one of his best performances to make sure the nature boy got the farewell he deserved. In ring performance and wrestling aside just the emotions surrounding this match made it great for, if Edge V Taker wasn't the main event I would of been ****** that this didn't main event.

    HBK vs John Cena Wrestlemania 23: So yeah Taker/Batista probably had the match of the night this Mania, but in my mind this is an under appreciated classic. Yeah the story line heading into this match may not have been the best but oh boy did these two deliver in the ring. The narrative of John Cena's power and strength vs Shawn's speed dominated the early stages of the match, and none of the performers were getting one up on each other for most of the match, which made for a refreshing match. Some of the spots in the match like Michaels driving Cena through the steps with a pile driver was just great. Whilst yeah you can nitpick the odd hole in this match it was still a classic in my mind.

    HBK vs Bret Hard Wrestlemania 13: One of my favorite matches of all time! In my mind this is when HBK truly became Mr. Wrestlemania. Everything about this match from the entrances to the match-type made this match feel like a big moment. Some people may call the first half of the match a bit boring, but I say how can you call anything boring when HBK and Bret Hart are in the ring?!? Watching that first 30/40 minutes make the 20 thrilling minutes of this match so much more enjoyable. It's kind of like a classic test match. Starts off slow and of course some people can't handle it but once you get into the business end of the match it makes it so worth the wait.

    HBK vs Y2J Wrestlemania 19: So this was Mr. Wrestlemania's big return to the show of shows and what a rivalry and match to do it too! Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels have had a whole heap of classic matches in their career, which is a testament to their chemistry and this was just the first of them.

    HBK vs HHH vs Benoit Wrestlemania 20: We were what 1/2 years into the return of HBK from that gruesome injury and he had already found himself in the main event of the biggest show of the year! One of the if not the greatest triple threat match ever the only thing I find hard to put it ahead of is the Daniels V AJ V Joe at unbreakable 2005. I have both these matches as even stevens as it is hard for me to say one is better than the other. Don't be mistaken this was Benoit's night but don't forget both HHH and HBK's role in putting on the match of the year that year in my mind.

    HBK vs Kurt Angle Wrestlemania 21: So take two of the greatest professional wrestlers at the time and put them together in a ring, and the results will surely be an instant classic. That is exactly what happened as the two best wrestlers at the time in the world I'd say put on a match for the ages. Both of them brought their A game and their chemistry was just about as good as any two wrestlers ever considering the fact that this was their first time wrestling EVER! This match built to the most dramatic of finishes as I can still envision Shawn desperately trying to escape the Ankle lock to no avail.

    HBK vs Razor Ramon Wrestlemania 10: Back in 1994 a concept of a ladder match was fresh and exciting. I have gone back and seen both HBK and Scott Hall talk about this match and what they were thinking, feeling, and going through and it is just crazy to think what a match they had. Like you can not compare the ladder matches we see today to this match. These guys had one ladder, they had no bar set for them so they had to go out there and set a standard for what a ladder match should look like and boy did they.

    HBK vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 25: Two of the most iconic WWE Superstars who had battled each other and so many others across 2 decades, but it was their back to back Mania classics that for me are both of their best matches ever. As far as Taker's mania matches and the streak goes this was the one match for the first time in a while where you could say oh if anybody can beat Taker it's HBK. HBK used his deceptive quickness to his advantage throughout the match. The in ring psychology both these guys had was off the charts and they knew how to play the crowd. The finish of this match is just insanely good that "one mistake" HBK made going for that moonsault and getting caught to be tombstoned to the ground and get pinned, to put an end to what I believe was the greatest Mania match to that point.

    While many would say the Mania match between Taker and HBK is not only each individuals greatest Mania match but also the greatest Wrestlemania match I feel the match these two followed up with the next year was even better and the greatest Wrestlemania match ever. That is the Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 26 For my money the best match I have ever witnessed live I remember being there watching this match live in attendance at the University of Phoenix Stadium, a place I have gone to see a couple NFL games as well. And oh boy after putting on a classic a year before they somehow managed to top it. The mood in the crowd for this match was just different. This match stand out for me because the psychology throughout the match was perfect, the story of the obsession Michaels had of ending the streak was built into the match nicely, with Taker capitalizing on any mistakes Shawn made. The finish for this match is beautiful and story telling at it's best one of the most iconic moments in Mania history, with HBK beckoning the Deadman to finish him off and then even slapping him in the face to enrage the reaper. This match for me is the epitome of what pro wrestling should be, and all that is great about WWE, not only is it my favorite match ever but I got to watch it live! Furthermore I remember the tear sheds from everyone once HBK retired nobody in that stadium wanted Shawn to retire and no one wanted the streak to end either!
    Shawn had tremendous matches at mania, even with a back injury the effort against Austin in 98 at WM 14 was nothing short of miraculous; Shawn for all his natural ability he has truly been tested and each time he overcame the odds with flying colours in a way he only can; then you had him in the ring with Vince and Flair; getting classics out of these individuals when he shouldn't have been able to due to Vince's lack of in-ring ability and Flair being past his prime by decades.

    It's awesome you got to see him perform live at WM 26, that was a spectacular match and I agree it was just as good as WM 25 imo it was just presented in a different way stylistically was more action packed and fast paced. People also shouldn't forget these were in stadiums when you can't always feed off the energy of an audience when it comes to the spots you call in the ring and you need to have such a good in-ring IQ.

    For me personally, I have never seen match which is greater then HBK v Angle; it is the greatest match of all time in my eyes; it had all forms and styles, technical, brawling, high-flying etc tremendous story-telling by both men and the pacing of the match was fantastic as well, it was the most beautiful match I have seen, aesthetically it was incredible to; just simple perfection, we were very fortunate to see it between the two at their best. Bobby Heenan was crying backstage when he watched the match he felt it was the best he had ever seen to and that man lived through the Flair/Steamboat era.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  30. #110
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    Bret Hart!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Shawn had tremendous matches at mania, even with a back injury the effort against Austin in 98 at WM 14 was nothing short of miraculous; Shawn for all his natural ability he has truly been tested and each time he overcame the odds with flying colours in a way he only can; then you had him in the ring with Vince and Flair; getting classics out of these individuals when he shouldn't have been able to due to Vince's lack of in-ring ability and Flair being past his prime by decades.

    It's awesome you got to see him perform live at WM 26, that was a spectacular match and I agree it was just as good as WM 25 imo it was just presented in a different way stylistically was more action packed and fast paced. People also shouldn't forget these were in stadiums when you can't always feed off the energy of an audience when it comes to the spots you call in the ring and you need to have such a good in-ring IQ.

    For me personally, I have never seen match which is greater then HBK v Angle; it is the greatest match of all time in my eyes; it had all forms and styles, technical, brawling, high-flying etc tremendous story-telling by both men and the pacing of the match was fantastic as well, it was the most beautiful match I have seen, aesthetically it was incredible to; just simple perfection, we were very fortunate to see it between the two at their best. Bobby Heenan was crying backstage when he watched the match he felt it was the best he had ever seen to and that man lived through the Flair/Steamboat era.
    Yeah it was certainly a great match probably in my top 5 or 10 of all time as well. HBK has just had way to many matches you could term classic.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Yeah it was certainly a great match probably in my top 5 or 10 of all time as well. HBK has just had way to many matches you could term classic.
    He had an equally insane run in the 90s, matches with the likes of Taker, Diesel and Mankind were epic, In Your House PPV event, that match with Mankind is one of the greatest of all time in PPV history outside the big 4


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  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    He had an equally insane run in the 90s, matches with the likes of Taker, Diesel and Mankind were epic, In Your House PPV event, that match with Mankind is one of the greatest of all time in PPV history outside the big 4
    His 90's run was great but I think the 2000's run is what really solidified him as a the greatest in ring performer of all time. Literally all his matches at Mania from 2002 were all great matches, which is just insane to even think how someone can have so many great matches at Mania in the last 8 years of his career.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
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  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    His 90's run was great but I think the 2000's run is what really solidified him as a the greatest in ring performer of all time. Literally all his matches at Mania from 2002 were all great matches, which is just insane to even think how someone can have so many great matches at Mania in the last 8 years of his career.
    I disagree because I still have magazines from those days which pointed out how shawn was the greatest in-ring performer in history despite his premature retirement in 1998, these were reviews of his career from industry experts and if you go back to see his resume from the 90s you will be equally impressed and I personally enjoy those matches from his vault dvd for example just as much post 2000's although the match with Angle does stand head and shoulders above everything for me. The stuff in the 2000's I see where you're coming from with the solidified POV but that run was just miraculous and shawn by 1998 had cemented his legacy long before that, he just vindicated what was widely accepted. What did you make of his return at Sweet Saudi Blood Money ?


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  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I disagree because I still have magazines from those days which pointed out how shawn was the greatest in-ring performer in history despite his premature retirement in 1998, these were reviews of his career from industry experts and if you go back to see his resume from the 90s you will be equally impressed and I personally enjoy those matches from his vault dvd for example just as much post 2000's although the match with Angle does stand head and shoulders above everything for me. The stuff in the 2000's I see where you're coming from with the solidified POV but that run was just miraculous and shawn by 1998 had cemented his legacy long before that, he just vindicated what was widely accepted. What did you make of his return at Sweet Saudi Blood Money ?
    Oof that's something I don't like to talk about and just ignore. But truth is it was very sad to see. I mean Shawn Michaels had the retirement anybody would dream of. Not only that but it was the retirement he deserved. I got to witness it live, the most profound in ring career come to an end in the most profound of ways, in what I believe is the greatest match ever. Then to come back to Saudia Arabia where there was a lot of controversy already surrounding the show and to then go and have a match with 4 50 year old grandpa's (no offense love all the guys in the match but come on) is just sad. It was to hard to watch I mean I respect all 4 of those guys for what they have done but let's be real it's 2019, HHH, Taker, Kane, and HBK are all 50 or around there. This is a type of industry I feel where if you stay on to long you are just tarnishing your legacy. I get the money part yeah it was probably way to much money to turn down, but if Shawn were to ever come back I'd it rather be with AJ at say Wrestlemania 33 like it was rumored. Even there I was hesitant as Shawn had the greatast retirement story line/match in my opinion, by coming back he would just tarnish his legacy. Plus you look at pictures of the Taker, HBK, HHH, and Kane from the crown jewel show compared to what they looked like 10/15 years back and you'd be forgiven for thinking they were different people. Like I honestly tried watching the match at Crown Jewel but 5 minutes into it I shut off the TV. Like you guys are 4 of the greatest wrestlers ever, but it's at that point where they all need to retire. You look at so many guys in the past from Flair, to all these other guys and they never truly stay retired, by coming out for a stupid spot here or there for a couple bucks. But in my view that just ruins your own legacy.

    So to put it simply I like to think of Crown Jewel and HBK coming out of retirement never happened. Like honestly if it were up to me, Shawn Michaels last match would be at Wrestlemania 26 against undertaker, and HHH/Undertaker's last match would be the Hell in a Cell at Wrestlemania 28 with HBK as special referee. As that truly would of been the perfect ending for all three of these guys. With Kane there's no real match he should of retired at but honestly anytime after the Team Hell No thing so like in 2015/16 Kane should of also retired. It's so hard to watch your childhood legends struggling to put on a quality match and move so slow in the ring. Same thing with Kurt when he returned it was like a different person he was moving so slow, and he was probably the greatest athlete WWE ever had. It's what age does man it's almost impossible to keep wrestling at the required standards once your pass 45/46. The only guy who I think has wrestled good matches in his 50's is Ric Flair. The one that always comes to my mind is Flair V Edge at a Raw show in 2006 it was a ladder match and Flair was taking bumps at 56 like he was in his 20's.


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  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Oof that's something I don't like to talk about and just ignore. But truth is it was very sad to see. I mean Shawn Michaels had the retirement anybody would dream of. Not only that but it was the retirement he deserved. I got to witness it live, the most profound in ring career come to an end in the most profound of ways, in what I believe is the greatest match ever. Then to come back to Saudia Arabia where there was a lot of controversy already surrounding the show and to then go and have a match with 4 50 year old grandpa's (no offense love all the guys in the match but come on) is just sad. It was to hard to watch I mean I respect all 4 of those guys for what they have done but let's be real it's 2019, HHH, Taker, Kane, and HBK are all 50 or around there. This is a type of industry I feel where if you stay on to long you are just tarnishing your legacy. I get the money part yeah it was probably way to much money to turn down, but if Shawn were to ever come back I'd it rather be with AJ at say Wrestlemania 33 like it was rumored. Even there I was hesitant as Shawn had the greatast retirement story line/match in my opinion, by coming back he would just tarnish his legacy. Plus you look at pictures of the Taker, HBK, HHH, and Kane from the crown jewel show compared to what they looked like 10/15 years back and you'd be forgiven for thinking they were different people. Like I honestly tried watching the match at Crown Jewel but 5 minutes into it I shut off the TV. Like you guys are 4 of the greatest wrestlers ever, but it's at that point where they all need to retire. You look at so many guys in the past from Flair, to all these other guys and they never truly stay retired, by coming out for a stupid spot here or there for a couple bucks. But in my view that just ruins your own legacy.

    So to put it simply I like to think of Crown Jewel and HBK coming out of retirement never happened. Like honestly if it were up to me, Shawn Michaels last match would be at Wrestlemania 26 against undertaker, and HHH/Undertaker's last match would be the Hell in a Cell at Wrestlemania 28 with HBK as special referee. As that truly would of been the perfect ending for all three of these guys. With Kane there's no real match he should of retired at but honestly anytime after the Team Hell No thing so like in 2015/16 Kane should of also retired. It's so hard to watch your childhood legends struggling to put on a quality match and move so slow in the ring. Same thing with Kurt when he returned it was like a different person he was moving so slow, and he was probably the greatest athlete WWE ever had. It's what age does man it's almost impossible to keep wrestling at the required standards once your pass 45/46. The only guy who I think has wrestled good matches in his 50's is Ric Flair. The one that always comes to my mind is Flair V Edge at a Raw show in 2006 it was a ladder match and Flair was taking bumps at 56 like he was in his 20's.
    I get the feeling with regards to a retirement being final and how HBK had the perfecting ending to his career, but regardless his legacy is forever cemented and can not be tarnished; you tarnish it by clowning around in Japan with little girls and blow up dolls before making a North American PPV debut by looking like a damn mid-carder in the main event of a big show. If you watch that match HBK was the one guy who looked tremendous in the ring for someone who has been inactive for a very long time and he is still capable of a 5* match even now; the Saudi event was a glorified house show so I wouldn't read too much into it as far as "coming out of retirement" is concerned, it was just a fun tag team match nothing more nothing less, it's funny because the one guy who looked horrendous was Triple H and he had been more active then the rest and in tremendous condition, not only did he get himself injured, he worked the same methodical style / pace he has since the mid 90s; without the smokes and mirrors he is just god awful; HBK wouldn't say he was exactly in his prime but from what I did see he could still go, his in-ring IQ was incredible and on display once again; the man is a master of the squared circle in raslin and it was a blessing for me to see him perform one more time even if it was with a hack like Triple H as his partner.


    @Red Devil is another big HBK fan, am sure he would agree that Shawn passed the eye test; if anything that made me more excited for a big bout at mania but Shawn is not going to officially come out of retirement sadly, I thought if he ever would be it was going to be the recent mania which is also why I attended it but it wasn't to be. See the tag match as more of a cheat day, Shawn is exceptionally insecure about returning to the ring officially but he is the only one that is capable of pulling it off at the same level he did 10 years ago and am not mincing my words there, never doubt the heart break kid.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I get the feeling with regards to a retirement being final and how HBK had the perfecting ending to his career, but regardless his legacy is forever cemented and can not be tarnished; you tarnish it by clowning around in Japan with little girls and blow up dolls before making a North American PPV debut by looking like a damn mid-carder in the main event of a big show. If you watch that match HBK was the one guy who looked tremendous in the ring for someone who has been inactive for a very long time and he is still capable of a 5* match even now; the Saudi event was a glorified house show so I wouldn't read too much into it as far as "coming out of retirement" is concerned, it was just a fun tag team match nothing more nothing less, it's funny because the one guy who looked horrendous was Triple H and he had been more active then the rest and in tremendous condition, not only did he get himself injured, he worked the same methodical style / pace he has since the mid 90s; without the smokes and mirrors he is just god awful; HBK wouldn't say he was exactly in his prime but from what I did see he could still go, his in-ring IQ was incredible and on display once again; the man is a master of the squared circle in raslin and it was a blessing for me to see him perform one more time even if it was with a hack like Triple H as his partner.


    @Red Devil is another big HBK fan, am sure he would agree that Shawn passed the eye test; if anything that made me more excited for a big bout at mania but Shawn is not going to officially come out of retirement sadly, I thought if he ever would be it was going to be the recent mania which is also why I attended it but it wasn't to be. See the tag match as more of a cheat day, Shawn is exceptionally insecure about returning to the ring officially but he is the only one that is capable of pulling it off at the same level he did 10 years ago and am not mincing my words there, never doubt the heart break kid.
    What's your top 5 wrestlers ever?

    For me it's easy for a long time since growing up it's been --

    1. Undertaker
    2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
    3. Shawn Michaels
    4. John Cena
    5. Edge

    Triple H and AJ Styles prob get into 6th and 7th for me.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    What's your top 5 wrestlers ever?

    For me it's easy for a long time since growing up it's been --

    1. Undertaker
    2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
    3. Shawn Michaels
    4. John Cena
    5. Edge

    Triple H and AJ Styles prob get into 6th and 7th for me.
    Btw if you've not watched that match for understandable reasons I do think you should see it in full for HBK only you won't be disappointed.

    Personal favourites rather then who I think is the best ? then they would be as follows:

    1. HBK
    2. Undertaker / Ric Flair
    3. The Rock (Who is responsible for my fandom for raslin although am bitter about him going to Hollywood and also making rubbish movies but I have to include him )
    4. AJ Styles
    5. Eddie Gurrero

    Often this list changes for me mate but HBK always is at the top of my list, has always been my all time favourite


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Btw if you've not watched that match for understandable reasons I do think you should see it in full for HBK only you won't be disappointed.

    Personal favourites rather then who I think is the best ? then they would be as follows:

    1. HBK
    2. Undertaker / Ric Flair
    3. The Rock (Who is responsible for my fandom for raslin although am bitter about him going to Hollywood and also making rubbish movies but I have to include him )
    4. AJ Styles
    5. Eddie Gurrero

    Often this list changes for me mate but HBK always is at the top of my list, has always been my all time favourite
    HBK ahead of Taker? Wow Taker is the GOAT in my mind. No one comes close to him. And AJ ahead of Stone Cold. So yours is more of a wrestling list. I like to include John and Steve Austin just cause of how each of them carried the company on their back during their respective times. Stone Cold in my opinion is the most entertaining wrestler ever and it doesn't get much more thrilling than when you hear that glass break. Also as a kid I don't know why even though Edge use to be a heel I always loved him and when I grow up I understand that he was probably one of the greatest heels ever. He was a very good wrestler as well with being great on the mic as well. In fact one of my dream matches is AJ vs Edge I think that could of been an instant classic.

    As for that match I've watched chunks of it but it's hard to watch all of it like I've mentioned.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    HBK ahead of Taker? Wow Taker is the GOAT in my mind. No one comes close to him. And AJ ahead of Stone Cold. So yours is more of a wrestling list. I like to include John and Steve Austin just cause of how each of them carried the company on their back during their respective times. Stone Cold in my opinion is the most entertaining wrestler ever and it doesn't get much more thrilling than when you hear that glass break. Also as a kid I don't know why even though Edge use to be a heel I always loved him and when I grow up I understand that he was probably one of the greatest heels ever. He was a very good wrestler as well with being great on the mic as well. In fact one of my dream matches is AJ vs Edge I think that could of been an instant classic.

    As for that match I've watched chunks of it but it's hard to watch all of it like I've mentioned.
    That's not a list of who I think is the greatest ever, it's a personal favourite list of mine which often does change a bit apart from HBK at no.1; when it comes to greatest ever the consensus is Ric Flair but for me it is Taker as well now, I would put HBK just behind Taker/Flair in that regard.

    Yeah Austin is very under rated as an all round performer, he was very very clever and versatile; the run he had despite those career threatening injuries was remarkable, only someone with a very high in-ring IQ would be able to make those adjustments, and he got so over he could control that crowd in the palm of his hands like no one else before him


    Ah, so this is what it feels like


  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    That's not a list of who I think is the greatest ever, it's a personal favourite list of mine which often does change a bit apart from HBK at no.1; when it comes to greatest ever the consensus is Ric Flair but for me it is Taker as well now, I would put HBK just behind Taker/Flair in that regard.

    Yeah Austin is very under rated as an all round performer, he was very very clever and versatile; the run he had despite those career threatening injuries was remarkable, only someone with a very high in-ring IQ would be able to make those adjustments, and he got so over he could control that crowd in the palm of his hands like no one else before him
    Yeah people under-rate Austin in the ring. That match against Bret Hart at Mania 13 with the double turn is one of my top 3 favorite's of all time. However even if he wasn't that good in the ring his ability with the mic was off the charts. He could make anything work. It pisses me off when people compare Becky Lynch to people like Stone Cold. Now don't get me wrong I've been a fan of Becky for a long time. But Stone Cold was selling out Raw week in week out. Plus when he was at the top 5/6+ million people were tuning into raw every week! Nowadays we can't even get 2 million people. I hate to be that guys but Wrestling just isn't what it supposed to be. The late 90's to 2010 for me were gold as a WWE fan. Some of those Mid-Carders around Mania 17 were more over than the top stars these days. For me Roman could of become a great by now if WWE just stuck with his push and didn't have him lose to Brock at Mania 34. For me Roman and AJ are the two most over stars in this era.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
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  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Yeah people under-rate Austin in the ring. That match against Bret Hart at Mania 13 with the double turn is one of my top 3 favorite's of all time. However even if he wasn't that good in the ring his ability with the mic was off the charts. He could make anything work. It pisses me off when people compare Becky Lynch to people like Stone Cold. Now don't get me wrong I've been a fan of Becky for a long time. But Stone Cold was selling out Raw week in week out. Plus when he was at the top 5/6+ million people were tuning into raw every week! Nowadays we can't even get 2 million people. I hate to be that guys but Wrestling just isn't what it supposed to be. The late 90's to 2010 for me were gold as a WWE fan. Some of those Mid-Carders around Mania 17 were more over than the top stars these days. For me Roman could of become a great by now if WWE just stuck with his push and didn't have him lose to Brock at Mania 34. For me Roman and AJ are the two most over stars in this era.
    Long before that match with Bret you should watch him wrestle in WCW, the ring-master run and his matches with Shawn Michaels in the mid 90s (95-96) when they were on the brink of super-stardom but worked the upper-mid card; they still had a tremendous match at WM14 I enjoyed it so much and it's even more insane considering HBK had a broken back and Austin had suffered that awful neck injury in 97 forcing him to change his style. There was a podcast where both agreed they had insanely good matches long before the encounter at Mania and it's a shame they were mostly during house shows, that was literally Austin and HBK in their absolute primes and 100% healthy physically and mentally.

    Am done with this forced Conor Mcregor Becky gimmick, The Man None sense etc they have overly scripted her run when she was a lot more hot when it was organic, also should have remained as more of a anti-hero / tweener character. Tbh am off wrestling compared to before, if you go through the thread on PP I use to be way more passionate and went into great detail but now I only show up because you post and still seem to have a decent level of interest compared to me, I've always been a big Boxing fan and follow it a lot more closely then ever before compared to anything else, the only thing I hate is corrupt scoring when it comes to the judges


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I get the feeling with regards to a retirement being final and how HBK had the perfecting ending to his career, but regardless his legacy is forever cemented and can not be tarnished; you tarnish it by clowning around in Japan with little girls and blow up dolls before making a North American PPV debut by looking like a damn mid-carder in the main event of a big show. If you watch that match HBK was the one guy who looked tremendous in the ring for someone who has been inactive for a very long time and he is still capable of a 5* match even now; the Saudi event was a glorified house show so I wouldn't read too much into it as far as "coming out of retirement" is concerned, it was just a fun tag team match nothing more nothing less, it's funny because the one guy who looked horrendous was Triple H and he had been more active then the rest and in tremendous condition, not only did he get himself injured, he worked the same methodical style / pace he has since the mid 90s; without the smokes and mirrors he is just god awful; HBK wouldn't say he was exactly in his prime but from what I did see he could still go, his in-ring IQ was incredible and on display once again; the man is a master of the squared circle in raslin and it was a blessing for me to see him perform one more time even if it was with a hack like Triple H as his partner.


    @Red Devil is another big HBK fan, am sure he would agree that Shawn passed the eye test; if anything that made me more excited for a big bout at mania but Shawn is not going to officially come out of retirement sadly, I thought if he ever would be it was going to be the recent mania which is also why I attended it but it wasn't to be. See the tag match as more of a cheat day, Shawn is exceptionally insecure about returning to the ring officially but he is the only one that is capable of pulling it off at the same level he did 10 years ago and am not mincing my words there, never doubt the heart break kid.
    Spot on bro, HBK did nothing that could have even remotely tarnished his legacy. He looked phenomenal for someone who hadn't stepped inside the squared circle in years. The fact that he looked so good so effortlessly even at this age is a testament to his insane natural talent and in ring ability.

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    What's your top 5 wrestlers ever?

    For me it's easy for a long time since growing up it's been --

    1. Undertaker
    2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
    3. Shawn Michaels
    4. John Cena
    5. Edge

    Triple H and AJ Styles prob get into 6th and 7th for me.
    My top 5 would be:

    1: HBK
    2: Austin
    3: Taker
    4: Sting
    5: Eddie
    @shaz619

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    Spot on bro, HBK did nothing that could have even remotely tarnished his legacy. He looked phenomenal for someone who hadn't stepped inside the squared circle in years. The fact that he looked so good so effortlessly even at this age is a testament to his insane natural talent and in ring ability.
    Exactly, it was beautiful to watch and poetry in motion; from a purely individual performance level it was an honour to watch the surgeon go to work once more time, his attention to detail was just outstanding when it came to pacing and selling; man Shawn is just on another level to the rest, he truly is the greatest in-ring performer of his time. It's a damn shame he is so insecure about returning to the ring because even now he is levels above the rest who overly rely on the high spots and Shawn doesn't even need those, they do to get a reaction


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    My top 5 would be:

    1: HBK
    2: Austin
    3: Taker
    4: Sting
    5: Eddie
    @shaz619
    Great list, still need to see an interaction between Taker and Sting even if it's in wheel chairs


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Long before that match with Bret you should watch him wrestle in WCW, the ring-master run and his matches with Shawn Michaels in the mid 90s (95-96) when they were on the brink of super-stardom but worked the upper-mid card; they still had a tremendous match at WM14 I enjoyed it so much and it's even more insane considering HBK had a broken back and Austin had suffered that awful neck injury in 97 forcing him to change his style. There was a podcast where both agreed they had insanely good matches long before the encounter at Mania and it's a shame they were mostly during house shows, that was literally Austin and HBK in their absolute primes and 100% healthy physically and mentally.

    Am done with this forced Conor Mcregor Becky gimmick, The Man None sense etc they have overly scripted her run when she was a lot more hot when it was organic, also should have remained as more of a anti-hero / tweener character. Tbh am off wrestling compared to before, if you go through the thread on PP I use to be way more passionate and went into great detail but now I only show up because you post and still seem to have a decent level of interest compared to me, I've always been a big Boxing fan and follow it a lot more closely then ever before compared to anything else, the only thing I hate is corrupt scoring when it comes to the judges
    Yeah Becky really needs to chill out. Even Ric got ****** the other day when Becky was having her twitter works she does with Edge. Ric even called up Edge and said tell me this is a work. Like Becky's good and all but she's nowhere near as good as the guys from the attitude era. Heck the mid-carders from that era are better than most guys today.

    I don't even watch Raw these days before Roman got leukemia I was really into WWE. AJ was WWE Champion Roman was Universal Champion life was good. These days though oof. I can't really stand Seth Rollins as a Universal Champion, like I don't know for some reason he just isn't a very interesting person. His promos are bland his matches are meh, a Chinese version of AJ I'd say, isn't as athletic isn't as good of technician in the ring. Basically he's just average to good at everything. The only two full time wrestlers I enjoy from a character standpoint and in the ring is Roman and AJ.

    I still remember how hot Roman was in 2017. He legit single handedly made Braun Strowman a frigggin star. Like I never understood why people boo Roman right now he is the second best full time professional wrestler behind AJ, and maybe Chris if you consider him full time which I don't.

    But yeah these days in WWE it's a combination of the talent not being as big, but also the horrible booking and garbage storylines. I feel like I've legit watched all WWE Segments/Matches from 1997-2011 like a hundred times. Wrestling was so much fun back then. Like you go back and some of the stuff wasn't even that good if you look at it now but it's still entertaining as hell cause guys like Stone Cold, Rock, Kurt, Taker, Jericho, HHH, HBK, Edge etc all made it work. So I feel talent has a lot to do with it as well. None of these guys wrestling these days except for maybe Roman and AJ could lace the boots of those guys. They were on a whole other level.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    My top 5 would be:

    1: HBK
    2: Austin
    3: Taker
    4: Sting
    5: Eddie
    @shaz619
    Great list sad we never got to see Taker V Sting. Don't know what Vince was smoking back in 2015 to not have that match at Mania 31 always gets me going.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  49. #129
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    Kevin Owens in terms of character the ways he potrays is terrific but he needs to loose his weight.
    Samoa joe is underrated in terms of mic skills.
    Aj styles is good but im sad that i didnt see him in his prime.


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