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  1. #1
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    Which nation has produced the most ODI greats?

    Following on from the test great thread, I thought I'd do one for ODIs. The criteria is as follows:

    A batting average of 35 or more and SR of 70 or more
    A fast bowling average of 27 or less and a SR of 40 or less
    A spin bowling average of 35 or less and a SR of 50 or less

    The cut off is 70 ODIs, so as to exclude anyone with very short careers.

    This is a slightly more leniant criteria than for tests, as ODI cricket often has great players who don't necessarily have titanic numbers, hence the reason for including strike rates.

    Remember, this is an impact format of the game and should be treated as thus numerically.

    As usual, no google, no cricinfo, put forward your guesses.

  2. #2
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    Considering this is guesses, I think its gotta be tight between India, Pakistan and Australia.
    While Pakistan have been pretty good in Tests, they've had some great LOI cricketers. All rounders like Razzaq, Afridi, IK. Fast bowlers like Shoaib, Waqar Younis and Wasim. Great spinners too.

    I think it should be;

    - Aus
    - Pak
    - India
    - West Indies

  3. #3
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    Australia and then India

    This is my list without checking stats.

    Australia:
    Ponting
    Bevan
    Jones
    Gilchrist
    McGrath
    Warne
    Lee
    Starc

    India:
    Tendulkar
    Dhoni
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Kapil

  4. #4
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    Pak has a really good shot at this with:

    IK
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Razzaq
    Saeed Anwar
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Mushy

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    Pak has a really good shot at this with:

    IK
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Razzaq
    Saeed Anwar
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Mushy
    Add Afridi there. 7000 runs at a SR over 100 and 400 wickets is pretty great. Of course he's not an ATG player but definitely a great one and comparable to Kapil Dev in this format of the game.

    Saeed Ajmal as well. The best ODI spinner after Saqlain, Murali and Warne. Not sure about Razzaq and Mushy from your list but criminal to not include Inzamam.

    Pak's greats:

    1) Anwar
    2) Inzamam
    3) Miandad (not a SR of 70 but he could definitely play at that level if he wanted).
    4) Afridi
    5) Ajmal
    6) Akhtar
    7) Mushy (arguable)


    Pak's ODI ATGs:

    1) Imran
    2) Wasim
    3) Waqar
    4) Saqlain


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Add Afridi there. 7000 runs at a SR over 100 and 400 wickets is pretty great. Of course he's not an ATG player but definitely a great one and comparable to Kapil Dev in this format of the game.

    Saeed Ajmal as well. The best ODI spinner after Saqlain, Murali and Warne. Not sure about Razzaq and Mushy from your list but criminal to not include Inzamam.

    Pak's greats:

    1) Anwar
    2) Inzamam
    3) Miandad (not a SR of 70 but he could definitely play at that level if he wanted).
    4) Afridi
    5) Ajmal
    6) Akhtar
    7) Mushy (arguable)


    Pak's ODI ATGs:

    1) Imran
    2) Wasim
    3) Waqar
    4) Saqlain
    Wanted to add Lala but I don't think he would be mutually considered to be a great player by fans from other countries. Dont get me wrong, I love him but an avg or 22 and 400 wickets in 400 matches isn't exactly the greatest. Of course, he's an ATG match winner and maybe GOAT entertainer but not sure about player.

    As for Ajmal - same with him. Really wanted to include him too but a lot of fans don't think his wickets hold any weight given he "chucked".

    Can't believe I forgot Inzi tho. Surely ATG in ODIs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    Wanted to add Lala but I don't think he would be mutually considered to be a great player by fans from other countries. Dont get me wrong, I love him but an avg or 22 and 400 wickets in 400 matches isn't exactly the greatest. Of course, he's an ATG match winner and maybe GOAT entertainer but not sure about player.

    As for Ajmal - same with him. Really wanted to include him too but a lot of fans don't think his wickets hold any weight given he "chucked".

    Can't believe I forgot Inzi tho. Surely ATG in ODIs.
    Regardless of my statistical criteria, Afridi is an atg ODI player. The guy has masses of runs, masses of wickets and was a true impact player and a match winner.

    Edit: also the greatest striker of the ball in the history of the game.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    Regardless of my statistical criteria, Afridi is an atg ODI player. The guy has masses of runs, masses of wickets and was a true impact player and a match winner.

    Edit: also the greatest striker of the ball in the history of the game.
    I personally think he is very close to being an ODI ATG but I dont know how many fans around the world would have the same opinion.

  9. #9
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    Good stuff guys. Glad none of you have looked up the official data. Keep it coming.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    Good stuff guys. Glad none of you have looked up the official data. Keep it coming.
    AND, I know, you have categorically checked official stats, hence your filter & lost interest from there on.

    No all-rounder category & a cut-off of average 27 for Fast bowlers means, someone Kapil Dev Ramlal Nikhanj doesn't make it, while Mian Malik does.

    Good job indeed.

  11. #11
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    Odi ATG's from India

    SRT
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Kohli

    From Pakistan,

    Imran
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Inzamam
    Saqlain

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by santos11 View Post
    Odi ATG's from India

    SRT
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Kohli

    From Pakistan,

    Imran
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Inzamam
    Saqlain
    Remove Inzamam and Kapil from that list. They are great players but not ATGs.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by santos11 View Post
    Odi ATG's from India

    SRT
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Kohli

    From Pakistan,

    Imran
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Inzamam
    Saqlain
    Given that the first country listed is 6-0 in the biggest ODI games against the second country, I doubt the accuracy of the above lists.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Given that the first country listed is 6-0 in the biggest ODI games against the second country, I doubt the accuracy of the above lists.
    Only in india are inconsequential league games like in 92 and 99 are considered the biggest ODI games of all time . For pakistanis it still is the world cup final .

    Australia will be number 1 by a fair distance .

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Only in india are inconsequential league games like in 92 and 99 are considered the biggest ODI games of all time.
    Yeah, sure. A JAMODI is Muzaffarnagar is indeed consequential and a WC game is not.

    Given the hype that precedes every "inconsequential" WC league game between Pak and India, I have to say that grapes are forever sour.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Only in india are inconsequential league games like in 92 and 99 are considered the biggest ODI games of all time . For pakistanis it still is the world cup final .

    Australia will be number 1 by a fair distance .
    Don't forget the league match of 2015. The only WC defeat that was significant was the defeat in the semi-finals of the 2011 WC. That was the only defeat that led to us missing out for a WC for the taking and led to India winning it instead.

    All the others were just like any other loss to India because they had no impact on either team's WC hopes. The fact that India did not win a single WC despite these five wins tells you all you need to know.

    Indians do hype them up to mask the embarrassing overall W/L record of the two countries though. Or the fact that Pakistan has won more ODI games despite playing a much fewer number of matches.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Don't forget the league match of 2015. The only WC defeat that was significant was the defeat in the semi-finals of the 2011 WC. That was the only defeat that led to us missing out for a WC for the taking and led to India winning it instead.

    All the others were just like any other loss to India because they had no impact on either team's WC hopes. The fact that India did not win a single WC despite these five wins tells you all you need to know.
    So which World Cup was won by Pakistan in the rest of the Bilateral matches (Total 121 Matches) between the 2 teams ?

    Indians do hype them up to mask the embarrassing overall W/L record of the two countries though. Or the fact that Pakistan has won more ODI games despite playing a much fewer number of matches.
    Nobody takes bilateral ODI's seriously ... deal with it.


    Sydney Bangalore Manchester Centurion Durban Jo'burg Mohali Colombo Dhaka Adelaide Kolkata

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Given that the first country listed is 6-0 in the biggest ODI games against the second country, I doubt the accuracy of the above lists.
    If you add Champions Trophy and Benson Hedges World Championship ... it comes to 9-2


    Sydney Bangalore Manchester Centurion Durban Jo'burg Mohali Colombo Dhaka Adelaide Kolkata

  19. #19
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    Australia.

  20. #20
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    Australia.

  21. #21
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    Indian batsman have crazy stats, they rack up so many runs so I was inclined to mention India alongside Pak and Aus who have all produced many ODI greats. Aus for me has the most ODI greats.

  22. #22
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    Stats aren't a very effective measure for ODI greatness, the game has changed a lot over the years.


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    Australia then Pakistan.

    India doesn't have one great ODI bowler lmao. That's half of the sport.


    Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of wealth & taste.

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    Don't agree with the cutoff. Someone like Miandad won't make it if we go by those stats


    Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of wealth & taste.

  25. #25
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    I am not in to this average thing and all that. From the top of my head it will have to be Australia. This is why they have won the most world cup's. Pak and India are probably neck and neck, it's to close to call here.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  26. #26
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    Agree with @MMHS. Another loaded thread that is easy to look through, but credit goes to OP for attempting to outsmart folks with thousands of posts and a bit of cricketing knowledge. Wasn't going to work though. Just like the Test thread, the whole premise of this thread and the criteria laid is completely rubbish.

  27. #27
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    WI, Aus and India. Taken together they have won 9-10 WCs.
    Last edited by Buffet; 21st April 2017 at 00:37.


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    ODI All-time greats of different countries:

    Australia:

    1) Ponting
    2) Bevan
    3) McGrath
    4) Warne
    5) Starc (potential)
    6) Smith (potential)

    England:

    None.

    India:

    1) Tendulker
    2) Dhoni
    3) Kohli (potential)

    New Zealand:

    1) Richard Hadlee
    2) Boult (potential)

    South Africa:

    1) AB de Villiers
    2) Allan Donald
    3) Hashim Amla (potential)
    4) Imran Tahir (potential)
    5) De Kock (potential)

    Sri Lanka:

    1) Muralitharan

    West Indies:

    1) Richards
    2) Garner
    3) Holding

    Probably missed a few but these are off the top of my head.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  29. #29
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    SRT - 18k runs at avg of 44
    Ganguly - 11k runs at avg of 42
    Dravid - 10k runs at avg of 39
    Kohli - 7500 runs at 50
    Dhoni - 8000 runs at 50
    Yuvraj - 8000 runs at 37 and SR 87
    Azhar - more than 9000 runs
    Kapil - 3700 runs and 250 wickets
    Agarkar 288 wickets at 27, SR of 32
    Srinath 300 wickets at 28

    Indian greats - pick ATG from the list



  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    SRT - 18k runs at avg of 44
    Ganguly - 11k runs at avg of 42
    Dravid - 10k runs at avg of 39
    Kohli - 7500 runs at 50
    Dhoni - 8000 runs at 50
    Yuvraj - 8000 runs at 37 and SR 87
    Azhar - more than 9000 runs
    Kapil - 3700 runs and 250 wickets
    Agarkar 288 wickets at 27, SR of 32
    Srinath 300 wickets at 28

    Indian greats - pick ATG from the list

    Where is Viru ?


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  31. #31
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    The fact that people are even discussing whether Afridi is a Pakistani great is just...

    Batting average of 24
    Bowling averag of 35

    What exactly about this is legendary?

  32. #32
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    Australia
    WI/India

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    The fact that people are even discussing whether Afridi is a Pakistani great is just...

    Batting average of 24
    Bowling averag of 35

    What exactly about this is legendary?
    24 @ 105 is pretty dope for a #7 or #8

    add an econ rate of 4.5 or so and youve got a solid ODI A/R


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    24 @ 105 is pretty dope for a #7 or #8

    add an econ rate of 4.5 or so and youve got a solid ODI A/R
    Not to mention that at his best, he was totally unstoppable. Had a fantastic 2011 WC as captain too. Afridi was a great ODI player.


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  35. #35
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    Quite simply, Kapil's innings of 175 when India were down to 17/5, followed by India going all the way and winning its first WC (when at the start of the tournament the bookies had the at 50:1) makes him an ATG of ATGs.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Quite simply, Kapil's innings of 175 when India were down to 17/5, followed by India going all the way and winning its first WC (when at the start of the tournament the bookies had the at 50:1) makes him an ATG of ATGs.
    Oh my. Which legendary team faced the full wrath of Kapil Dev that day? Australia? England? Pakistan?

    Zimbabwe. Oh, nevermind. Kapil Dev is not an ATG. He is a great ODI player but he wasn't consistently great and therefore comparable to Afridi, who himself is a great ODI player but no where near ATG level.


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Oh my. Which legendary team faced the full wrath of Kapil Dev that day?
    The same country that had reduced the soon to be World Champions to 17/5.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The same country that had reduced the soon to be World Champions to 17/5.
    Zimbabwe. This tells me more about the quality of India's top five than anything else.


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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Zimbabwe. This tells me more about the quality of India's top five than anything else.
    Did you miss the bit about India being the "World Champions"? You can therefore extrapolate your opinion of India to the entire world.

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    I would reckon

    Oz
    WI
    Ind
    Pak
    SA
    SL
    NZ
    Eng

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    SRT - 18k runs at avg of 44
    Ganguly - 11k runs at avg of 42
    Dravid - 10k runs at avg of 39
    Kohli - 7500 runs at 50
    Dhoni - 8000 runs at 50
    Yuvraj - 8000 runs at 37 and SR 87
    Azhar - more than 9000 runs
    Kapil - 3700 runs and 250 wickets
    Agarkar 288 wickets at 27, SR of 32
    Srinath 300 wickets at 28

    Indian greats - pick ATG from the list
    Srt
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Yuvi
    Kapil
    Most importantly u guys forgot kumble

  42. #42
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    Firstly, you don't just judge players by stats. But even if you conduct this exercise, the criteria the OP has put on is ridiculous.

    The averages of some one playing in the 2010s cannot be compared to someone who played cricket in the 80s and 90s. The SR has also changed significantly.

    Just an example for batting - Hashim Amla averages 50 with 89 SR, whereas Sachin averages 44 with a SR of 86. Sachin is clearly an ATG and Amla is not (some might argue he is, but its not as clear cut. he could on the cusp).

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Firstly, you don't just judge players by stats. But even if you conduct this exercise, the criteria the OP has put on is ridiculous.

    The averages of some one playing in the 2010s cannot be compared to someone who played cricket in the 80s and 90s. The SR has also changed significantly.

    Just an example for batting - Hashim Amla averages 50 with 89 SR, whereas Sachin averages 44 with a SR of 86. Sachin is clearly an ATG and Amla is not (some might argue he is, but its not as clear cut. he could on the cusp).
    Stats alone are certainly not enough to adjudge someone as being an ATG but they do matter. The criteria is pretty fair imo, as averages and SRs were not as high in the before the 2000s, similarly bowling averages and economy rates have gone down so the cutoff needs to be a bit lenient there. Do think Amla is an ATG. Averaging 50 over a significant period of time, even in today's game is no mean achievement.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by amvbfm View Post
    Stats alone are certainly not enough to adjudge someone as being an ATG but they do matter. The criteria is pretty fair imo, as averages and SRs were not as high in the before the 2000s, similarly bowling averages and economy rates have gone down so the cutoff needs to be a bit lenient there. Do think Amla is an ATG. Averaging 50 over a significant period of time, even in today's game is no mean achievement.
    Fair enough. But lot of people, including me will not agree with this. Its much easier to average 50 with a SR around 90 when the norm is a 300+ score. Whereas in 90s, even a 250 was generally a winning score. Again, as I said, its not as clear cut. IMHO, Amla is on par with batsmen such as Ganguly.

    Also, on the general cut off, one cannot just make averages lenient. Test cricket, even though has changed over the last 2 decades, has not had as significant a change as ODIs. So, one criteria fits all will not work here.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Fair enough. But lot of people, including me will not agree with this. Its much easier to average 50 with a SR around 90 when the norm is a 300+ score. Whereas in 90s, even a 250 was generally a winning score. Again, as I said, its not as clear cut. IMHO, Amla is on par with batsmen such as Ganguly.

    Also, on the general cut off, one cannot just make averages lenient. Test cricket, even though has changed over the last 2 decades, has not had as significant a change as ODIs. So, one criteria fits all will not work here.
    I meant batsmen such as Sehwag.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Fair enough. But lot of people, including me will not agree with this. Its much easier to average 50 with a SR around 90 when the norm is a 300+ score. Whereas in 90s, even a 250 was generally a winning score. Again, as I said, its not as clear cut. IMHO, Amla is on par with batsmen such as Ganguly.

    Also, on the general cut off, one cannot just make averages lenient. Test cricket, even though has changed over the last 2 decades, has not had as significant a change as ODIs. So, one criteria fits all will not work here.
    I agree that average scores have gone up and 300+ is the norm but that also has to do with SRs, there are still very few players who average above 50 in ODIs and someone who can do that consistently deserves to be labelled as a great.

  47. #47
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    off the top of my head

    Australia: Ponting, Gilchrist, Hayden, Mcgrath, Bevan, Lee, Jones, Waugh brothers, Hussey, Smith and Warne.
    S.Africa: Smith, Kallis, DeVilliers, Amla, Donald, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, KP
    Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Anwer, Miandad, Imran, Inzamam, Yousuf, Afridi, Ajmal
    India: Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid, Sehwag, Azhar, Kohli, Dhoni, Kapil
    W.I : Lara, Richards, Haynes, Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall,SL Gayle
    SL: DeSilva, J'suriya, Mahela, Sangakarra, Vaas, Murali, Dilshan
    NZ: Crowe, Hadlee, Vettori, Cairns, Taylor
    Eng: errrrrr.....
    Bang: Shakib

    Again, just off the top of my head.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by amvbfm View Post
    off the top of my head

    Australia: Ponting, Gilchrist, Hayden, Mcgrath, Bevan, Lee, Jones, Waugh brothers, Hussey, Smith and Warne.
    S.Africa: Smith, Kallis, DeVilliers, Amla, Donald, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, KP
    Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Anwer, Miandad, Imran, Inzamam, Yousuf, Afridi, Ajmal
    India: Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid, Sehwag, Azhar, Kohli, Dhoni, Kapil
    W.I : Lara, Richards, Haynes, Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall,SL Gayle
    SL: DeSilva, J'suriya, Mahela, Sangakarra, Vaas, Murali, Dilshan
    NZ: Crowe, Hadlee, Vettori, Cairns, Taylor
    Eng: errrrrr.....
    Bang: Shakib

    Again, just off the top of my head.

    Decent list but,
    Pak - Remove Ajmal and Yousuf. Not sure if Afridi fits there either. Add Zaheer Abbas. Probably Even Shoaib Akhtar.

    India - Not sure about Sehwag. Yuvraj could be added there due to his exploits in WC.

    Eng - KP

    SA - I would add Cronje and Rhodes there. Remove Amla.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Decent list but,
    Pak - Remove Ajmal and Yousuf. Not sure if Afridi fits there either. Add Zaheer Abbas. Probably Even Shoaib Akhtar.

    India - Not sure about Sehwag. Yuvraj could be added there due to his exploits in WC.

    Eng - KP

    SA - I would add Cronje and Rhodes there. Remove Amla.
    I listed Ajmal without considering the controversy surrounding his action. On numbers alone he can be considered good enough to qualify for Pakistan's ATG list given his contribution during the years that he played. But a 50/50 choice. Similarly thought about excluding Afridi but his batting and bowling should not be viewed in isolation. As a package, he wasn't too bad and how many people have 400 wickets? I agree that averages do matter but sometimes its also about absolute numbers and longevity. Why is it difficult to find an English ODI great? Simply because very few of them played for a long period of time. Again a 50/50 choice and can be excluded. Zaheer Abbas in ODIs? Errr, don't know about that. But yes missed Akhtar, deserves to be included, in place of Ajmal.

    Cronje over Amla?

  50. #50
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    Australia
    West Indies
    Pakistan
    India
    South Africa

  51. #51
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    Australia.

  52. #52
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    Australia- Ponting, Gilchrist, Bevan, Mark Waugh, Warne, Lee, Mcgrath

    Pakistan- Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Akhtar, Yousuf, Anwar

    India- Tendulkar, Dhoni, Yuvraj, Kohli, Ganguly, Kapil

    Sri Lanka- Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Vaas, Muralitharan, Dilshan, Malinga

    West Indies- Richard, Lara, Gayle, Ambrose

    New Zealand- Hadlee

    England- ...

    Bangladesh- Shakib

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Don't forget the league match of 2015. The only WC defeat that was significant was the defeat in the semi-finals of the 2011 WC. That was the only defeat that led to us missing out for a WC for the taking and led to India winning it instead.

    All the others were just like any other loss to India because they had no impact on either team's WC hopes. The fact that India did not win a single WC despite these five wins tells you all you need to know.

    Indians do hype them up to mask the embarrassing overall W/L record of the two countries though. Or the fact that Pakistan has won more ODI games despite playing a much fewer number of matches.
    While imran held the crystal trophy aloft there was a party in bombay because the indians had defeated the mighty pakistan in a match .
    I think india should stop looking upto pakistan .

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    While imran held the crystal trophy aloft there was a party in bombay because the indians had defeated the mighty pakistan in a match .
    I think india should stop looking upto pakistan .
    This is just made up stuff, I am old enough to remember.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Quite simply, Kapil's innings of 175 when India were down to 17/5, followed by India going all the way and winning its first WC (when at the start of the tournament the bookies had the at 50:1) makes him an ATG of ATGs.
    That was minnow bashing at its best. Almost every bowler in that bowling attack has a career average in 40s and 30s. It is like saying Imran Nazir played a tremendous inning in 2007 vs Zimbabwe. BTW, he failed in the final of 1983.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    BTW, he failed in the final of 1983.
    The hallmark of a truly great player is that he will on the field, make a decisive contribution one way or the other.

    http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/k...ichards-505321

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    That was minnow bashing at its best. Almost every bowler in that bowling attack has a career average in 40s and 30s. It is like saying Imran Nazir played a tremendous inning in 2007 vs Zimbabwe. BTW, he failed in the final of 1983.
    Imran, meanwhile, played a decisive innings in the World Cup final of 1992 to help Pakistan win the game. The difference between an All-time great and a great.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Imran, meanwhile, played a decisive innings in the World Cup final of 1992 to help Pakistan win the game. The difference between an All-time great and a great.
    The catch of Richards was critical in India becoming the first country ever other than the WI to win the WC. Pray do point to the best catch taken by IK over his entire career.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    That was minnow bashing at its best.
    Zimb beat Australia in the tournament.

  60. #60
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    Australia.


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  61. #61
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    Aust have the most and too many than I can be bothered trying to list

    The others;

    WI - Richards, Garner, Lara, Ambrose
    SL - De Silva, Murali, Vaas & Jayasuriya
    Pakistan - Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain
    India - Tendulkar, Dev, Dhoni
    South Africa - Pollock, AB deV, Donald & Kallis
    New Zealand - Hadlee, Bond, Vettori, Cairns
    England - KP & Flintoff
    Bang - Shakib

  62. #62
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    Australia.

    5 times World Champion , 7 times finalist.

    Need we say more ?

  63. #63
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    Aus, WI and India. The sheer amount of tournaments they won, no other team comes close to them. The statistical analysis in meaningless games is just useless. You need to perform in big tournaments.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Zimb beat Australia in the tournament.
    So, what? Bangladesh beat India in 2007 and they were a minnow team in 2007.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    So, what? Bangladesh beat India in 2007 and they were a minnow team in 2007.
    Given that Bangladesh beat Pakistan in 1999 and India is 2007, I am loath to consider them a minnow team.

  66. #66
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    Kapil was an ATG no doubt. Dont know why people discussing these things so much. So was Miandad too. No questions on these two.

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    The List

    So you have all been debating and waiting, but wait no more. Here you go:

    1. Australia - 18 batsmen and 13 bowlers, a whopping 31 players!
    2. South Africa - 13 batsmen and 7 bowlers, a very good total of 20
    3. Pakistan - 8 batsmen and 10 bowlers, a better than expected total of 18
    4. England - 14 batsmen and 3 bowlers, a surprising total of 17
    5. India - 12 batsmen but only 4 bowlers, smack bang in the middle with 16
    6. West Indies - 7 batsmen and 4 bowlers, a worrying total of 11
    7. Sri Lanka - 7 batsmen and 3 bowlers, a total of 10
    8. New Zealand - 6 batsmen and 3 bowlers, a total of 9
    9. Bangladesh - 1 batsman and 2 bowlers, a total of 3
    10. Zimbabwe - 1 batsman and 1 bowler, bottom of the pile with 2

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Given that Bangladesh beat Pakistan in 1999 and India is 2007, I am loath to consider them a minnow team.
    Lol you will say anything to defend Indian cricket or cricketer, no matter how silly it sounds.

    Now I have heard it all. Bangladesh was not a minnow team in 1999 and 2007. Great job!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Lol you will say anything to defend Indian cricket or cricketer, no matter how silly it sounds.

    Now I have heard it all. Bangladesh was not a minnow team in 1999 and 2007. Great job!
    Learn to read between the lines my friend.

  70. #70
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    Something I learned while researching this: England have produced some good ODI batters, some of whom are from recent times. It is striking that they have more players with very good numbers than a team like India. I was expecting India to be 2nd or 3rd and England to be...I dunno, 6th may be.

    What is also striking is that India really, really lack in the ODI bowling department too.

    South Africa continues to astound, such a short span of time and so many top players across both formats that I reviewed.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    What is also striking is that India really, really lack in the ODI bowling department too.
    Indians are quite happy with their ODI bowling thank you. India bowled out the first 7 teams it faced in 2015 WCC which was sensational.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Indians are quite happy with their ODI bowling thank you. India bowled out the first 7 teams it faced in 2015 WCC which was sensational.
    That's great but in a historical context, none of them average what great bowlers across the globe do.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    That's great but in a historical context, none of them average what great bowlers across the globe do.
    You can keep all the phasht bowling trophies (as long as Pak is listed as a top team from the bottom ) and we will keep our World trophies and #1 Ranking ... Everybody will be happy


    Sydney Bangalore Manchester Centurion Durban Jo'burg Mohali Colombo Dhaka Adelaide Kolkata

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    That's great but in a historical context, none of them average what great bowlers across the globe do.
    It's what the team does which determines who wins or loses rather than the individual bowlers. One can say that Nehra isn't an ATG, but his figures of 10 overs 33 runs 2 wickets was an important part of the bowling unit that throttled Pakistain in Mohali SF. India's score of 260 was below par and their chances of winning dim till their bowlers delivered.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    It's what the team does which determines who wins or loses rather than the individual bowlers. One can say that Nehra isn't an ATG, but his figures of 10 overs 33 runs 2 wickets was an important part of the bowling unit that throttled Pakistain in Mohali SF. India's score of 260 was below par and their chances of winning dim till their bowlers delivered.
    Again, good performances but what does that have to do with how great a player is. Are you going to argue Nehra is a great ODI bowler? We're not looking at moments, we're looking at entire careers.

    Fact is, it is quite obvious Aus are the best ODI side around and the sheer number of top level cricketers they have produced proves that.

    SA, Pak and Ind are about on the same level, altho Pak and SA have a comfortably higher W/L ratio but India have the edge in winning 1 more wc than Pak and 2 more than SA. The years of consistency by all 3 times is reflected by their number of top level players and correctly SA and Pak have more than Ind. I would have expected maybe more batsmen from IND but it's not the case just yet.

    England are a bit of an out lier but then again, a number of their players are from the modern age and they have come on leaps and bounds in the ODI arena.

  76. #76
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    @Nil Dhumrojal Bangladesh


    Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of wealth & taste.

  77. #77
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    England haven't produced anywhere close to ATG players India have produced as far as one day internationals are concerned. In tests, its a different case although still most are from older era but in odis its simply nowhere close.

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    Aus
    Ind
    WI
    Pak
    SL
    SA
    NZ
    Eng
    Zim


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nil Dhumrojal View Post
    Aus
    Ind
    WI
    Pak
    SL
    SA
    NZ
    Eng
    Zim
    what is this?

    You already saw the actual list lol

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