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  1. #1
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    Which nation has produced the most ODI greats?

    Following on from the test great thread, I thought I'd do one for ODIs. The criteria is as follows:

    A batting average of 35 or more and SR of 70 or more
    A fast bowling average of 27 or less and a SR of 40 or less
    A spin bowling average of 35 or less and a SR of 50 or less

    The cut off is 70 ODIs, so as to exclude anyone with very short careers.

    This is a slightly more leniant criteria than for tests, as ODI cricket often has great players who don't necessarily have titanic numbers, hence the reason for including strike rates.

    Remember, this is an impact format of the game and should be treated as thus numerically.

    As usual, no google, no cricinfo, put forward your guesses.

  2. #2
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    Considering this is guesses, I think its gotta be tight between India, Pakistan and Australia.
    While Pakistan have been pretty good in Tests, they've had some great LOI cricketers. All rounders like Razzaq, Afridi, IK. Fast bowlers like Shoaib, Waqar Younis and Wasim. Great spinners too.

    I think it should be;

    - Aus
    - Pak
    - India
    - West Indies

  3. #3
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    Australia and then India

    This is my list without checking stats.

    Australia:
    Ponting
    Bevan
    Jones
    Gilchrist
    McGrath
    Warne
    Lee
    Starc

    India:
    Tendulkar
    Dhoni
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Kapil

  4. #4
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    Pak has a really good shot at this with:

    IK
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Razzaq
    Saeed Anwar
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Mushy

  5. #5
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    Good stuff guys. Glad none of you have looked up the official data. Keep it coming.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    Good stuff guys. Glad none of you have looked up the official data. Keep it coming.
    AND, I know, you have categorically checked official stats, hence your filter & lost interest from there on.

    No all-rounder category & a cut-off of average 27 for Fast bowlers means, someone Kapil Dev Ramlal Nikhanj doesn't make it, while Mian Malik does.

    Good job indeed.

  7. #7
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    Odi ATG's from India

    SRT
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Kohli

    From Pakistan,

    Imran
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Inzamam
    Saqlain

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    Pak has a really good shot at this with:

    IK
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Razzaq
    Saeed Anwar
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Mushy
    Add Afridi there. 7000 runs at a SR over 100 and 400 wickets is pretty great. Of course he's not an ATG player but definitely a great one and comparable to Kapil Dev in this format of the game.

    Saeed Ajmal as well. The best ODI spinner after Saqlain, Murali and Warne. Not sure about Razzaq and Mushy from your list but criminal to not include Inzamam.

    Pak's greats:

    1) Anwar
    2) Inzamam
    3) Miandad (not a SR of 70 but he could definitely play at that level if he wanted).
    4) Afridi
    5) Ajmal
    6) Akhtar
    7) Mushy (arguable)


    Pak's ODI ATGs:

    1) Imran
    2) Wasim
    3) Waqar
    4) Saqlain


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  9. #9
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    Australia.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by santos11 View Post
    Odi ATG's from India

    SRT
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Kohli

    From Pakistan,

    Imran
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Inzamam
    Saqlain
    Remove Inzamam and Kapil from that list. They are great players but not ATGs.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Add Afridi there. 7000 runs at a SR over 100 and 400 wickets is pretty great. Of course he's not an ATG player but definitely a great one and comparable to Kapil Dev in this format of the game.

    Saeed Ajmal as well. The best ODI spinner after Saqlain, Murali and Warne. Not sure about Razzaq and Mushy from your list but criminal to not include Inzamam.

    Pak's greats:

    1) Anwar
    2) Inzamam
    3) Miandad (not a SR of 70 but he could definitely play at that level if he wanted).
    4) Afridi
    5) Ajmal
    6) Akhtar
    7) Mushy (arguable)


    Pak's ODI ATGs:

    1) Imran
    2) Wasim
    3) Waqar
    4) Saqlain
    Wanted to add Lala but I don't think he would be mutually considered to be a great player by fans from other countries. Dont get me wrong, I love him but an avg or 22 and 400 wickets in 400 matches isn't exactly the greatest. Of course, he's an ATG match winner and maybe GOAT entertainer but not sure about player.

    As for Ajmal - same with him. Really wanted to include him too but a lot of fans don't think his wickets hold any weight given he "chucked".

    Can't believe I forgot Inzi tho. Surely ATG in ODIs.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    Wanted to add Lala but I don't think he would be mutually considered to be a great player by fans from other countries. Dont get me wrong, I love him but an avg or 22 and 400 wickets in 400 matches isn't exactly the greatest. Of course, he's an ATG match winner and maybe GOAT entertainer but not sure about player.

    As for Ajmal - same with him. Really wanted to include him too but a lot of fans don't think his wickets hold any weight given he "chucked".

    Can't believe I forgot Inzi tho. Surely ATG in ODIs.
    Regardless of my statistical criteria, Afridi is an atg ODI player. The guy has masses of runs, masses of wickets and was a true impact player and a match winner.

    Edit: also the greatest striker of the ball in the history of the game.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    Regardless of my statistical criteria, Afridi is an atg ODI player. The guy has masses of runs, masses of wickets and was a true impact player and a match winner.

    Edit: also the greatest striker of the ball in the history of the game.
    I personally think he is very close to being an ODI ATG but I dont know how many fans around the world would have the same opinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    I personally think he is very close to being an ODI ATG but I dont know how many fans around the world would have the same opinion.
    I think a lot would and more importantly, I'm sure cricketing pundits (journalists, ex players etc) would be even more in favour. Afridi is quite posisbly the most one day of one day cricketers.

  15. #15
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    Australia.

  16. #16
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    Indian batsman have crazy stats, they rack up so many runs so I was inclined to mention India alongside Pak and Aus who have all produced many ODI greats. Aus for me has the most ODI greats.

  17. #17
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    Stats aren't a very effective measure for ODI greatness, the game has changed a lot over the years.


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  18. #18
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    Australia then Pakistan.

    India doesn't have one great ODI bowler lmao. That's half of the sport.


    Don't save her
    She don't wanna be saved

  19. #19
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    Don't agree with the cutoff. Someone like Miandad won't make it if we go by those stats


    Don't save her
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  20. #20
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    I am not in to this average thing and all that. From the top of my head it will have to be Australia. This is why they have won the most world cup's. Pak and India are probably neck and neck, it's to close to call here.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  21. #21
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    Agree with @MMHS. Another loaded thread that is easy to look through, but credit goes to OP for attempting to outsmart folks with thousands of posts and a bit of cricketing knowledge. Wasn't going to work though. Just like the Test thread, the whole premise of this thread and the criteria laid is completely rubbish.

  22. #22
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    WI, Aus and India. Taken together they have won 9-10 WCs.
    Last edited by Buffet; 21st April 2017 at 00:37.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    ODI All-time greats of different countries:

    Australia:

    1) Ponting
    2) Bevan
    3) McGrath
    4) Warne
    5) Starc (potential)
    6) Smith (potential)

    England:

    None.

    India:

    1) Tendulker
    2) Dhoni
    3) Kohli (potential)

    New Zealand:

    1) Richard Hadlee
    2) Boult (potential)

    South Africa:

    1) AB de Villiers
    2) Allan Donald
    3) Hashim Amla (potential)
    4) Imran Tahir (potential)
    5) De Kock (potential)

    Sri Lanka:

    1) Muralitharan

    West Indies:

    1) Richards
    2) Garner
    3) Holding

    Probably missed a few but these are off the top of my head.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  24. #24
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    The fact that people are even discussing whether Afridi is a Pakistani great is just...

    Batting average of 24
    Bowling averag of 35

    What exactly about this is legendary?

  25. #25
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    Australia
    WI/India

  26. #26
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    SRT - 18k runs at avg of 44
    Ganguly - 11k runs at avg of 42
    Dravid - 10k runs at avg of 39
    Kohli - 7500 runs at 50
    Dhoni - 8000 runs at 50
    Yuvraj - 8000 runs at 37 and SR 87
    Azhar - more than 9000 runs
    Kapil - 3700 runs and 250 wickets
    Agarkar 288 wickets at 27, SR of 32
    Srinath 300 wickets at 28

    Indian greats - pick ATG from the list



  27. #27
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    Quite simply, Kapil's innings of 175 when India were down to 17/5, followed by India going all the way and winning its first WC (when at the start of the tournament the bookies had the at 50:1) makes him an ATG of ATGs.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    SRT - 18k runs at avg of 44
    Ganguly - 11k runs at avg of 42
    Dravid - 10k runs at avg of 39
    Kohli - 7500 runs at 50
    Dhoni - 8000 runs at 50
    Yuvraj - 8000 runs at 37 and SR 87
    Azhar - more than 9000 runs
    Kapil - 3700 runs and 250 wickets
    Agarkar 288 wickets at 27, SR of 32
    Srinath 300 wickets at 28

    Indian greats - pick ATG from the list
    Srt
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Yuvi
    Kapil
    Most importantly u guys forgot kumble

  29. #29
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    Firstly, you don't just judge players by stats. But even if you conduct this exercise, the criteria the OP has put on is ridiculous.

    The averages of some one playing in the 2010s cannot be compared to someone who played cricket in the 80s and 90s. The SR has also changed significantly.

    Just an example for batting - Hashim Amla averages 50 with 89 SR, whereas Sachin averages 44 with a SR of 86. Sachin is clearly an ATG and Amla is not (some might argue he is, but its not as clear cut. he could on the cusp).

  30. #30
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    off the top of my head

    Australia: Ponting, Gilchrist, Hayden, Mcgrath, Bevan, Lee, Jones, Waugh brothers, Hussey, Smith and Warne.
    S.Africa: Smith, Kallis, DeVilliers, Amla, Donald, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, KP
    Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Anwer, Miandad, Imran, Inzamam, Yousuf, Afridi, Ajmal
    India: Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid, Sehwag, Azhar, Kohli, Dhoni, Kapil
    W.I : Lara, Richards, Haynes, Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall,SL Gayle
    SL: DeSilva, J'suriya, Mahela, Sangakarra, Vaas, Murali, Dilshan
    NZ: Crowe, Hadlee, Vettori, Cairns, Taylor
    Eng: errrrrr.....
    Bang: Shakib

    Again, just off the top of my head.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Firstly, you don't just judge players by stats. But even if you conduct this exercise, the criteria the OP has put on is ridiculous.

    The averages of some one playing in the 2010s cannot be compared to someone who played cricket in the 80s and 90s. The SR has also changed significantly.

    Just an example for batting - Hashim Amla averages 50 with 89 SR, whereas Sachin averages 44 with a SR of 86. Sachin is clearly an ATG and Amla is not (some might argue he is, but its not as clear cut. he could on the cusp).
    Stats alone are certainly not enough to adjudge someone as being an ATG but they do matter. The criteria is pretty fair imo, as averages and SRs were not as high in the before the 2000s, similarly bowling averages and economy rates have gone down so the cutoff needs to be a bit lenient there. Do think Amla is an ATG. Averaging 50 over a significant period of time, even in today's game is no mean achievement.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by amvbfm View Post
    Stats alone are certainly not enough to adjudge someone as being an ATG but they do matter. The criteria is pretty fair imo, as averages and SRs were not as high in the before the 2000s, similarly bowling averages and economy rates have gone down so the cutoff needs to be a bit lenient there. Do think Amla is an ATG. Averaging 50 over a significant period of time, even in today's game is no mean achievement.
    Fair enough. But lot of people, including me will not agree with this. Its much easier to average 50 with a SR around 90 when the norm is a 300+ score. Whereas in 90s, even a 250 was generally a winning score. Again, as I said, its not as clear cut. IMHO, Amla is on par with batsmen such as Ganguly.

    Also, on the general cut off, one cannot just make averages lenient. Test cricket, even though has changed over the last 2 decades, has not had as significant a change as ODIs. So, one criteria fits all will not work here.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by amvbfm View Post
    off the top of my head

    Australia: Ponting, Gilchrist, Hayden, Mcgrath, Bevan, Lee, Jones, Waugh brothers, Hussey, Smith and Warne.
    S.Africa: Smith, Kallis, DeVilliers, Amla, Donald, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, KP
    Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Anwer, Miandad, Imran, Inzamam, Yousuf, Afridi, Ajmal
    India: Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid, Sehwag, Azhar, Kohli, Dhoni, Kapil
    W.I : Lara, Richards, Haynes, Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall,SL Gayle
    SL: DeSilva, J'suriya, Mahela, Sangakarra, Vaas, Murali, Dilshan
    NZ: Crowe, Hadlee, Vettori, Cairns, Taylor
    Eng: errrrrr.....
    Bang: Shakib

    Again, just off the top of my head.

    Decent list but,
    Pak - Remove Ajmal and Yousuf. Not sure if Afridi fits there either. Add Zaheer Abbas. Probably Even Shoaib Akhtar.

    India - Not sure about Sehwag. Yuvraj could be added there due to his exploits in WC.

    Eng - KP

    SA - I would add Cronje and Rhodes there. Remove Amla.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Fair enough. But lot of people, including me will not agree with this. Its much easier to average 50 with a SR around 90 when the norm is a 300+ score. Whereas in 90s, even a 250 was generally a winning score. Again, as I said, its not as clear cut. IMHO, Amla is on par with batsmen such as Ganguly.

    Also, on the general cut off, one cannot just make averages lenient. Test cricket, even though has changed over the last 2 decades, has not had as significant a change as ODIs. So, one criteria fits all will not work here.
    I meant batsmen such as Sehwag.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    The fact that people are even discussing whether Afridi is a Pakistani great is just...

    Batting average of 24
    Bowling averag of 35

    What exactly about this is legendary?
    24 @ 105 is pretty dope for a #7 or #8

    add an econ rate of 4.5 or so and youve got a solid ODI A/R


    #MPGA

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Fair enough. But lot of people, including me will not agree with this. Its much easier to average 50 with a SR around 90 when the norm is a 300+ score. Whereas in 90s, even a 250 was generally a winning score. Again, as I said, its not as clear cut. IMHO, Amla is on par with batsmen such as Ganguly.

    Also, on the general cut off, one cannot just make averages lenient. Test cricket, even though has changed over the last 2 decades, has not had as significant a change as ODIs. So, one criteria fits all will not work here.
    I agree that average scores have gone up and 300+ is the norm but that also has to do with SRs, there are still very few players who average above 50 in ODIs and someone who can do that consistently deserves to be labelled as a great.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Decent list but,
    Pak - Remove Ajmal and Yousuf. Not sure if Afridi fits there either. Add Zaheer Abbas. Probably Even Shoaib Akhtar.

    India - Not sure about Sehwag. Yuvraj could be added there due to his exploits in WC.

    Eng - KP

    SA - I would add Cronje and Rhodes there. Remove Amla.
    I listed Ajmal without considering the controversy surrounding his action. On numbers alone he can be considered good enough to qualify for Pakistan's ATG list given his contribution during the years that he played. But a 50/50 choice. Similarly thought about excluding Afridi but his batting and bowling should not be viewed in isolation. As a package, he wasn't too bad and how many people have 400 wickets? I agree that averages do matter but sometimes its also about absolute numbers and longevity. Why is it difficult to find an English ODI great? Simply because very few of them played for a long period of time. Again a 50/50 choice and can be excluded. Zaheer Abbas in ODIs? Errr, don't know about that. But yes missed Akhtar, deserves to be included, in place of Ajmal.

    Cronje over Amla?

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    Australia
    West Indies
    Pakistan
    India
    South Africa

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    Quote Originally Posted by santos11 View Post
    Odi ATG's from India

    SRT
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Kohli

    From Pakistan,

    Imran
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Inzamam
    Saqlain
    Given that the first country listed is 6-0 in the biggest ODI games against the second country, I doubt the accuracy of the above lists.

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    Australia.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Given that the first country listed is 6-0 in the biggest ODI games against the second country, I doubt the accuracy of the above lists.
    Only in india are inconsequential league games like in 92 and 99 are considered the biggest ODI games of all time . For pakistanis it still is the world cup final .

    Australia will be number 1 by a fair distance .

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Only in india are inconsequential league games like in 92 and 99 are considered the biggest ODI games of all time.
    Yeah, sure. A JAMODI is Muzaffarnagar is indeed consequential and a WC game is not.

    Given the hype that precedes every "inconsequential" WC league game between Pak and India, I have to say that grapes are forever sour.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Quite simply, Kapil's innings of 175 when India were down to 17/5, followed by India going all the way and winning its first WC (when at the start of the tournament the bookies had the at 50:1) makes him an ATG of ATGs.
    Oh my. Which legendary team faced the full wrath of Kapil Dev that day? Australia? England? Pakistan?

    Zimbabwe. Oh, nevermind. Kapil Dev is not an ATG. He is a great ODI player but he wasn't consistently great and therefore comparable to Afridi, who himself is a great ODI player but no where near ATG level.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    SRT - 18k runs at avg of 44
    Ganguly - 11k runs at avg of 42
    Dravid - 10k runs at avg of 39
    Kohli - 7500 runs at 50
    Dhoni - 8000 runs at 50
    Yuvraj - 8000 runs at 37 and SR 87
    Azhar - more than 9000 runs
    Kapil - 3700 runs and 250 wickets
    Agarkar 288 wickets at 27, SR of 32
    Srinath 300 wickets at 28

    Indian greats - pick ATG from the list

    Where is Viru ?


    India is the oldest and the oldest continuing civilization, with a history of over 10000 years.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Oh my. Which legendary team faced the full wrath of Kapil Dev that day?
    The same country that had reduced the soon to be World Champions to 17/5.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    Only in india are inconsequential league games like in 92 and 99 are considered the biggest ODI games of all time . For pakistanis it still is the world cup final .

    Australia will be number 1 by a fair distance .
    Don't forget the league match of 2015. The only WC defeat that was significant was the defeat in the semi-finals of the 2011 WC. That was the only defeat that led to us missing out for a WC for the taking and led to India winning it instead.

    All the others were just like any other loss to India because they had no impact on either team's WC hopes. The fact that India did not win a single WC despite these five wins tells you all you need to know.

    Indians do hype them up to mask the embarrassing overall W/L record of the two countries though. Or the fact that Pakistan has won more ODI games despite playing a much fewer number of matches.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The same country that had reduced the soon to be World Champions to 17/5.
    Zimbabwe. This tells me more about the quality of India's top five than anything else.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    24 @ 105 is pretty dope for a #7 or #8

    add an econ rate of 4.5 or so and youve got a solid ODI A/R
    Not to mention that at his best, he was totally unstoppable. Had a fantastic 2011 WC as captain too. Afridi was a great ODI player.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Zimbabwe. This tells me more about the quality of India's top five than anything else.
    Did you miss the bit about India being the "World Champions"? You can therefore extrapolate your opinion of India to the entire world.

  50. #50
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    Australia- Ponting, Gilchrist, Bevan, Mark Waugh, Warne, Lee, Mcgrath

    Pakistan- Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Akhtar, Yousuf, Anwar

    India- Tendulkar, Dhoni, Yuvraj, Kohli, Ganguly, Kapil

    Sri Lanka- Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Vaas, Muralitharan, Dilshan, Malinga

    West Indies- Richard, Lara, Gayle, Ambrose

    New Zealand- Hadlee

    England- ...

    Bangladesh- Shakib

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Don't forget the league match of 2015. The only WC defeat that was significant was the defeat in the semi-finals of the 2011 WC. That was the only defeat that led to us missing out for a WC for the taking and led to India winning it instead.

    All the others were just like any other loss to India because they had no impact on either team's WC hopes. The fact that India did not win a single WC despite these five wins tells you all you need to know.

    Indians do hype them up to mask the embarrassing overall W/L record of the two countries though. Or the fact that Pakistan has won more ODI games despite playing a much fewer number of matches.
    While imran held the crystal trophy aloft there was a party in bombay because the indians had defeated the mighty pakistan in a match .
    I think india should stop looking upto pakistan .

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    While imran held the crystal trophy aloft there was a party in bombay because the indians had defeated the mighty pakistan in a match .
    I think india should stop looking upto pakistan .
    Exactly. I'd rather lose another WC match to India as long as we beat everyone else and win the cup. India are welcome to beat him and then choke against Australia when it really matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Did you miss the bit about India being the "World Champions"? You can therefore extrapolate your opinion of India to the entire world.
    It was a victory for an underdog team who punched well above their weights. India were nowhere near the quality of the West Indies at that time.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Quite simply, Kapil's innings of 175 when India were down to 17/5, followed by India going all the way and winning its first WC (when at the start of the tournament the bookies had the at 50:1) makes him an ATG of ATGs.
    That was minnow bashing at its best. Almost every bowler in that bowling attack has a career average in 40s and 30s. It is like saying Imran Nazir played a tremendous inning in 2007 vs Zimbabwe. BTW, he failed in the final of 1983.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    BTW, he failed in the final of 1983.
    The hallmark of a truly great player is that he will on the field, make a decisive contribution one way or the other.

    http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/k...ichards-505321

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    That was minnow bashing at its best. Almost every bowler in that bowling attack has a career average in 40s and 30s. It is like saying Imran Nazir played a tremendous inning in 2007 vs Zimbabwe. BTW, he failed in the final of 1983.
    Imran, meanwhile, played a decisive innings in the World Cup final of 1992 to help Pakistan win the game. The difference between an All-time great and a great.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Imran, meanwhile, played a decisive innings in the World Cup final of 1992 to help Pakistan win the game. The difference between an All-time great and a great.
    The catch of Richards was critical in India becoming the first country ever other than the WI to win the WC. Pray do point to the best catch taken by IK over his entire career.

  57. #57
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    Australia.


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethan hunt View Post
    While imran held the crystal trophy aloft there was a party in bombay because the indians had defeated the mighty pakistan in a match .
    I think india should stop looking upto pakistan .
    This is just made up stuff, I am old enough to remember.

  59. #59
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    Aust have the most and too many than I can be bothered trying to list

    The others;

    WI - Richards, Garner, Lara, Ambrose
    SL - De Silva, Murali, Vaas & Jayasuriya
    Pakistan - Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain
    India - Tendulkar, Dev, Dhoni
    South Africa - Pollock, AB deV, Donald & Kallis
    New Zealand - Hadlee, Bond, Vettori, Cairns
    England - KP & Flintoff
    Bang - Shakib

  60. #60
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    Australia.

    5 times World Champion , 7 times finalist.

    Need we say more ?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildildalwalla View Post
    I think a lot would and more importantly, I'm sure cricketing pundits (journalists, ex players etc) would be even more in favour. Afridi is quite posisbly the most one day of one day cricketers.
    Afridi liked few others was possessed of a paradoxical combination of longevity and lack of development. Many runs and wickets yet all at a less than impressive average, and not consistently enough to be seen as a force. One counted on Afridi in the way that one counts on a full house in poker. It was more or less downhill all the way after that first electrifying 100. He did help Pakistan to a WC, but it was in T20 not ODI. On the basis of his bowling alone, however I'd peg him as a T20 ATG.

    Aus
    Ponting
    McGrath
    Warne
    Gilchrist
    Slater
    Lee
    Hussey
    Waugh
    Hayden (Far better than Inzi)
    Starc


    India
    SRT
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Yuvraj (Borderline, but was instrumental in WC victory)

    SA
    Pollock
    Steyn
    Donald
    Amla
    ABDV
    Kallis
    Klusener (Far superior to Razzaq, who is no ATG by world standards)
    Boucher
    Tahir

    Pak
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Imran
    Saqlain
    Ajmal
    Inzi (A Pakistani great, and instrumental in WC, but)

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayuu View Post
    Srt
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Yuvi
    Kapil
    Most importantly u guys forgot kumble
    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The same country that had reduced the soon to be World Champions to 17/5.
    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Afridi liked few others was possessed of a paradoxical combination of longevity and lack of development. Many runs and wickets yet all at a less than impressive average, and not consistently enough to be seen as a force. One counted on Afridi in the way that one counts on a full house in poker. It was more or less downhill all the way after that first electrifying 100. He did help Pakistan to a WC, but it was in T20 not ODI. On the basis of his bowling alone, however I'd peg him as a T20 ATG.

    Aus
    Ponting
    McGrath
    Warne
    Gilchrist
    Slater
    Lee
    Hussey
    Waugh
    Hayden (Far better than Inzi)
    Starc


    India
    SRT
    Ganguly
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Yuvraj (Borderline, but was instrumental in WC victory)

    SA
    Pollock
    Steyn
    Donald
    Amla
    ABDV
    Kallis
    Klusener (Far superior to Razzaq, who is no ATG by world standards)
    Boucher
    Tahir

    Pak
    Wasim
    Waqar
    Imran
    Saqlain
    Ajmal
    Inzi (A Pakistani great, and instrumental in WC, but)
    Why would Dravid and Sehwag miss out of the list while Ajmal and Imran make the list?



  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Given that the first country listed is 6-0 in the biggest ODI games against the second country, I doubt the accuracy of the above lists.
    If you add Champions Trophy and Benson Hedges World Championship ... it comes to 9-2


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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    That was minnow bashing at its best.
    Zimb beat Australia in the tournament.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Don't forget the league match of 2015. The only WC defeat that was significant was the defeat in the semi-finals of the 2011 WC. That was the only defeat that led to us missing out for a WC for the taking and led to India winning it instead.

    All the others were just like any other loss to India because they had no impact on either team's WC hopes. The fact that India did not win a single WC despite these five wins tells you all you need to know.
    So which World Cup was won by Pakistan in the rest of the Bilateral matches (Total 121 Matches) between the 2 teams ?

    Indians do hype them up to mask the embarrassing overall W/L record of the two countries though. Or the fact that Pakistan has won more ODI games despite playing a much fewer number of matches.
    Nobody takes bilateral ODI's seriously ... deal with it.


    Sydney Bangalore Manchester Centurion Durban Jo'burg Mohali Colombo Dhaka Adelaide Kolkata

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    Why would Dravid and Sehwag miss out of the list while Ajmal and Imran make the list?
    Eh, am OK with including Dravid and Sehwag (Ave 35?), but wonder why this particular comparison was made? Apples and oranges and cucumbers...

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    So which World Cup was won by Pakistan in the rest of the Bilateral matches (Total 121 Matches) between the 2 teams ?



    Nobody takes bilateral ODI's seriously ... deal with it.
    70 wins in ODI matches > 5 wins in ODI matches. Counting karni aati hai, chacha?


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The catch of Richards was critical in India becoming the first country ever other than the WI to win the WC. Pray do point to the best catch taken by IK over his entire career.
    A catch, no matter how good it was, does not excuse Kapil failing in that final. He isn't an ATG all-rounder but merely a great one.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    Why would Dravid and Sehwag miss out of the list while Ajmal and Imran make the list?
    Dravid was a mediocre ODI player, not any better than Younis Khan was for Pakistan. Sehwag probably won't make an India all-time XI and was pretty overrated, if I'm being honest. Surprised not to see Srinath in the India list but a good one by @New Yorker.

    Ajmal was the best ODI bowler in the world for a period of three years and has performed everywhere, possessing an average of below 23. Imran Khan has very good numbers and was instrumental in Pakistan winning the '92 WC. He's an ATG in the ODI format.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    70 wins in ODI matches > 5 wins in ODI matches. Counting karni aati hai, chacha?
    I was Pretty sure you were going to say that ... so here you go ... guess who uttered these prophetic words just a few days ago. i have made it easy for you to recognize the important bits


    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    People remember test series for years. Whether that's the 2005 Ashes, Pakistan's whitewash of England, South Africa's test form circa 2010-2014, etc. Test cricket doesn't need an "end-game" to make it relevant, there is no need for a test world-cup because the format has been the format for over a century. ODIs and T20s needed World Cup tournaments otherwise they would not be taken seriously.

    Why should they degrade their other skills to start hacking around? A test ATG like Gavasker is far superior cricketer to soemone like Guptill or Rohit. As for your query, yes there are test players who have done well in T20s. Dravid did quite decently in the IPL, if I'm not mistaken.

    Like I said, an IPL fan like yourself won't understand test cricket and definitely won't appreciate it. No shame in that, test cricket requires patience to play and watch, something that is lacking in today's world.


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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    A catch, no matter how good it was, does not excuse Kapil failing in that final. He isn't an ATG all-rounder but merely a great one.



    Dravid was a mediocre ODI player, not any better than Younis Khan was for Pakistan. Sehwag probably won't make an India all-time XI and was pretty overrated, if I'm being honest. Surprised not to see Srinath in the India list but a good one by @New Yorker.

    Ajmal was the best ODI bowler in the world for a period of three years and has performed everywhere, possessing an average of below 23. Imran Khan has very good numbers and was instrumental in Pakistan winning the '92 WC. He's an ATG in the ODI format.
    Not better than Younis Khan when Dravid's numbers are comparable to Inzi and not YK.

    Dravid scored 10889 runs at avg of 39 and SR of 71 in 344 matches.

    Inzi scored 11739 runs at avg of 39 and SR of 74 in 378 matches.

    YK scored 7249 runs at avg of 31 and SR of 75. How is he comparable to YK and not Inzi? Inzi had slightly better SR. But there isn't much difference. Dravid was consistent match winner for India in ODIs. Sehwag has contributed more for Indian ODI team than Ajmal has done for Pakistani team.

    Dravid started his ODI career in 1996 and was consistently close to 650-750 ranking points in ODIs from 99-2007, while Inzi hit 800 once in early 95 and after that he was inconsistent with 600-750 points range.

    YK never 500 ranking points. Dravid was not YK of Indian team.



  71. #71
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    Aus, WI and India. The sheer amount of tournaments they won, no other team comes close to them. The statistical analysis in meaningless games is just useless. You need to perform in big tournaments.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    I was Pretty sure you were going to say that ... so here you go ... guess who uttered these prophetic words just a few days ago. i have made it easy for you to recognize the important bits
    If only you learnt how to think critically along with how to increase the font size of a text, chacha. My comments are not contradictory.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    Not better than Younis Khan when Dravid's numbers are comparable to Inzi and not YK.

    Dravid scored 10889 runs at avg of 39 and SR of 71 in 344 matches.

    Inzi scored 11739 runs at avg of 39 and SR of 74 in 378 matches.

    YK scored 7249 runs at avg of 31 and SR of 75. How is he comparable to YK and not Inzi? Inzi had slightly better SR. But there isn't much difference. Dravid was consistent match winner for India in ODIs. Sehwag has contributed more for Indian ODI team than Ajmal has done for Pakistani team.

    Dravid started his ODI career in 1996 and was consistently close to 650-750 ranking points in ODIs from 99-2007, while Inzi hit 800 once in early 95 and after that he was inconsistent with 600-750 points range.

    YK never 500 ranking points. Dravid was not YK of Indian team.
    Numbers don't tell you everything. Dravid never played an innings like Inzi's in the semis of the '92 WC, for example. Ajmal was an ATG-level bowler and was universally accepted as the #1 ODI bowler in the world for years. Sehwag never hit that level as a batsman.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    If only you learnt how to think critically along with how to increase the font size of a text, chacha. My comments are not contradictory.
    ohh yeah ... how so ? please enlighten us mere mortals ohh the blessed one


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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Zimb beat Australia in the tournament.
    So, what? Bangladesh beat India in 2007 and they were a minnow team in 2007.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    So, what? Bangladesh beat India in 2007 and they were a minnow team in 2007.
    Given that Bangladesh beat Pakistan in 1999 and India is 2007, I am loath to consider them a minnow team.

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    I would reckon

    Oz
    WI
    Ind
    Pak
    SA
    SL
    NZ
    Eng

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Numbers don't tell you everything. Dravid never played an innings like Inzi's in the semis of the '92 WC, for example. Ajmal was an ATG-level bowler and was universally accepted as the #1 ODI bowler in the world for years. Sehwag never hit that level as a batsman.
    Sure he didn't have that one off type of inning which Inzi played in 92 WC, but apart from that they had very similar batting performances and impact on their teams.

    Ajmal lied about his injury to get leverage from ICC. Without that lie, he wouldn't have been half good as he is thought to be. He isn't even a Pakistani great, let alone be an ATG. Because of him, genuine bowler like Yasir Shah couldn't get into the test team.



  79. #79
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    Kapil was an ATG no doubt. Dont know why people discussing these things so much. So was Miandad too. No questions on these two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    Sure he didn't have that one off type of inning which Inzi played in 92 WC, but apart from that they had very similar batting performances and impact on their teams.

    Ajmal lied about his injury to get leverage from ICC. Without that lie, he wouldn't have been half good as he is thought to be. He isn't even a Pakistani great, let alone be an ATG. Because of him, genuine bowler like Yasir Shah couldn't get into the test team.
    Prove he lied about the injury. I will give you all day.

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