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  1. #241
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    I should have been more clear in my post, I was only talking about ODI, not the biggest fan of the dying format of tests.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    That team also drew 1-1 in Aus
    Won in England
    Won in NZ
    Won for the first time in WI since 1971
    Won in Pakistan for the first time in history
    .. along with being unbeaten at home except Aus 2004.

    There is just no comparison.
    So basically you are saying home matches just dont matter ...right ?

    And Last I recall we won in WI , SL and will wipe the floor clean with Pak if we were to play. Kohli hasnt yet played a series in NZ and has captained only 2 Tests in Aus and yet to play as captain in Eng.


    Also, I did bump the Kohli ODI thread which you abandoned after being presented with facts. You'll abandon this one as well after your rhetoric game dries out..
    Feel free to bump it up again and we will see what happened.


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  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    So basically you are saying home matches just dont matter ...right ?

    And Last I recall we won in WI , SL and will wipe the floor clean with Pak if we were to play. Kohli hasnt yet played a series in NZ and has captained only 2 Tests in Aus and yet to play as captain in Eng.

    Feel free to bump it up again and we will see what happened.
    India was undefeated at home in the 2000s except Aus 2004.

    Coming to today's team:

    Absolutely no batsman is a consistently proven performer overseas (The who is, is warming the bench)

    No reliable WK batsman

    Hardly any world class fast bowler. (Maybe Shami by a whisker).

    An absolutely HTB spinner who just recently couldn't do jack on the most friendly pitch he'll ever get overseas, not even picking one top order wicket in the second innings.

    Even in a 1 on 1 comparison with the best Indian team of the 2000s, this team would probably lose 11-0.

    And I'm not even mentioning the negative influence Kohli has as a captain on the team by his partisan policies with regards to team selection and his own juvenile behavior.

  4. #244
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    Lmao

    Full marks to OP

  5. #245
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    OP is a fan of the PP expert who loves everything to do with india. So it's no surprise that he came up with this legendary thread.

  6. #246
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    India is not even close to the great Australian side. The atg Australian team gave hiding to everyone home and away. That team was full of lengends and match-winners.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    India was undefeated at home in the 2000s except Aus 2004.

    Coming to today's team:

    Absolutely no batsman is a consistently proven performer overseas (The who is, is warming the bench)

    No reliable WK batsman

    Hardly any world class fast bowler. (Maybe Shami by a whisker).

    An absolutely HTB spinner who just recently couldn't do jack on the most friendly pitch he'll ever get overseas, not even picking one top order wicket in the second innings.

    Even in a 1 on 1 comparison with the best Indian team of the 2000s, this team would probably lose 11-0.

    And I'm not even mentioning the negative influence Kohli has as a captain on the team by his partisan policies with regards to team selection and his own juvenile behavior.
    Lost to Aus at home
    Lost to SA at home
    Lost to SL in SL ( Mendis lol )
    Drew with SA , Pak and Eng at home more lol
    Won one single Test in WI

    as I said the only way to explain these is thru hilarious excuses and pretending that winning in Eng is the benchmark of all things. Time to get out of that Colonial hangover.


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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Lost to Aus at home
    Lost to SA at home
    Lost to SL in SL ( Mendis lol )
    Drew with SA , Pak and Eng at home more lol
    Won one single Test in WI
    Losing to SL having Murali and Mendis is no worse than not being able to take 10 wickets on a Day 5 Delhi pitch against today's SL team which this great Indian team accomplished. Also barely scrapping through 2-1 against an Australian side which got rolled over 3-0 in SL and lost a match in Bangladesh.



    as I said the only way to explain these is thru hilarious excuses and pretending that winning in Eng is the benchmark of all things. Time to get out of that Colonial hangover.
    Nobody's even mentioned England and colonial hangover here. You're definitely seeing things.

    And I obviously see you've already started neglecting the man to man comparison lol. I wonder why. There is just no plausible way this team is better than the peak Indian team of the 2000s.

  9. #249
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    @Proactive_ India won 21 Tests lost 8 Tests at home in the entire last decade. Whereas we have won 20 Tests just in the last 5 yrs losing just 1 Test. You still want to talk ?


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  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    @Proactive_ India won 21 Tests lost 8 Tests at home in the entire last decade. Whereas we have won 20 Tests just in the last 5 yrs losing just 1 Test. You still want to talk ?
    And of those 8 losses:

    3 against the ATG Australian Side.
    2 against SA boasting of a very good attack headed by one of the greatest of all time in Steyn who averages 21 in India against the ATG Indian 2000s batting line up
    1 against Pak (the strongest subcontinental challenge which this Indian team hasn't played)

    Meanwhile this Indian team has been bashing the likes of Moeen, Rashid and Ish Sodhi for the oppositions' top spinners . When the one country with decent spin stocks (Australia) visited India, India folded for a 333 run loss in the first encounter.

    Also, I see you're still dodging the one on one comparison. between the teams You know your argument gets buried 6 feet under with that.
    Last edited by Proactive_; 17th January 2018 at 18:38.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Losing to SL having Murali and Mendis is no worse than not being able to take 10 wickets on a Day 5 Delhi pitch against today's SL team which this great Indian team accomplished. Also barely scrapping through 2-1 against an Australian side which got rolled over 3-0 in SL and lost a match in Bangladesh.
    Dude if you havent noticed that was not even a full strength team and not all D5 pitches are equal. Murali was way past prime and Mendis was soon shown his place never to be seen as the terror he was made out to be by that side. Dont forget the barely scraping through in WI in 2006.

    Nobody's even mentioned England and colonial hangover here. You're definitely seeing things.
    Well thats implied given your obsession with performing in Eng.

    And I obviously see you've already started neglecting the man to man comparison lol. I wonder why. There is just no plausible way this team is better than the peak Indian team of the 2000s.
    Because that is hypothetical. How exactly can you prove or disprove one is better than the other ? Thats just your opinion vs mine. Pointless discussion. Stick to actuals.


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  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Dude if you havent noticed that was not even a full strength team and not all D5 pitches are equal. Murali was way past prime and Mendis was soon shown his place never to be seen as the terror he was made out to be by that side. Dont forget the barely scraping through in WI in 2006.
    Murali way past his prime is still 10x better than what this Indian team has had to contend with in Sri Lanka.

    India defeated WI which still had Gayle, Lara, Chanderpaul and Sarwan in 2006, the 2016 Indian team were denied a victory by a rookie in Roston Chase.



    Well thats implied given your obsession with performing in Eng.
    That's your (false) understanding.



    Because that is hypothetical. How exactly can you prove or disprove one is better than the other ? Thats just your opinion vs mine. Pointless discussion. Stick to actuals.
    Yeah because it's all about opinion on whose better between VVS Laxman and Rohit Sharma. Right..

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    And of those 8 losses:

    3 against the ATG Australian Side.
    2 against SA boasting of a very good attack headed by one of the greatest of all time in Steyn who averages 21 in India against the ATG Indian 2000s batting line up
    1 against Pak (the strongest subcontinental challenge which this Indian team hasn't played)

    Meanwhile this Indian team has been bashing the likes of Moeen, Rashid and Ish Sodhi for the oppositions' top spinners . When the one country with decent spin stocks (Australia) visited India, India folded for a 333 run loss in the first encounter.

    Also, I see you're still dodging the one on one comparison. between the teams You know your argument gets buried 6 feet under with that.
    As I said these are all excuses ... at the end of the day they lost .. and did so 8 times vs 1. end of Story. And BTW remember that loss to Monty Panesar and Shaun Udal


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  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    As I said these are all excuses ... at the end of the day they lost .. and did so 8 times vs 1. end of Story. And BTW remember that loss to Monty Panesar and Shaun Udal
    And India lost to a spinner who literally can't spin the ball in Steve O Keefe lol. That too by 333 runs. The likes of Dravid, Sachin and Laxman would have been cringing seeing such a batting display against spinners on an Indian pitch.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    And India lost to a spinner who literally can't spin the ball in Steve O Keefe lol. That too by 333 runs. The likes of Dravid, Sachin and Laxman would have been cringing seeing such a batting display against spinners on an Indian pitch.
    Shaun Udal never played a single Test after that and retired happily having accomplished his dream (his own words) ... whereas O'Keefe got owned later in the same series ... there is no comparison at all here as to which is a worse situation.


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  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Shaun Udal never played a single Test after that and retired happily having accomplished his dream (his own words) ... whereas O'Keefe got owned later in the same series ... there is no comparison at all here as to which is a worse situation.
    Udal was 37 already in that test, obviously he was close to retirement regardless.. and Steve O Keefe had a better average than Ashwin in the series.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Udal was 37 already in that test, obviously he was close to retirement regardless.. and Steve O Keefe had a better average than Ashwin in the series.
    Udal being 37 and lucky to make the squad and then going on to completely owning India is what Iam talking about ... there is no comparison here when it comes to embarrassment. You can spin at all you want but 8 losses vs 1 Loss is pretty big margin that you wont be able to explain as hard as you may try. Just aint happening. Certainly not based on logic and reasoning.


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  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Udal being 37 and lucky to make the squad and then going on to completely owning India is what Iam talking about ... there is no comparison here when it comes to embarrassment. You can spin at all you want but 8 losses vs 1 Loss is pretty big margin that you wont be able to explain as hard as you may try. Just aint happening. Certainly not based on logic and reasoning.
    Yes, because an Indian team which negated Warne and Murali on Indian pitches needs to be embarrassed but not the Indian team which got pummeled by 333 runs getting bowled out for 100 in not one but two innings against the only decent spin attack it faced at home, not to mention not being able to take 7 wickets on a last day Delhi pitch against one of the worst SL sides in history.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Yes, because an Indian team which negated Warne and Murali on Indian pitches needs to be embarrassed but not the Indian team which got pummeled by 333 runs getting bowled out for 100 in not one but two innings against the only decent spin attack it faced at home, not to mention not being able to take 7 wickets on a last day Delhi pitch against one of the worst SL sides in history.
    Dude its not like we won all the Tests that those 2 played in India to start with .... SL got away due to the fact that we werent playing our 1st choice team. We still Won that series BTW. And dont forget Mahela Jayawardene's 275 back in 2009. Same thing even worse considering we got much closer in Delhi. And there was Herath who was rendered toothless by this side.



    Any chance you going to talk about the large difference in W/L ratio or you going to keep finding excuses to write off Wins under Kohli and writeoff losses from last decade. So typical and predictable your arguments are.
    Last edited by Tusker; 17th January 2018 at 20:00.


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  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Dude its not like we won all the Tests that those 2 played in India to start with .... SL got away due to the fact that we werent playing our 1st choice team. We still Won that series BTW. And dont forget Mahela Jayawardene's 275 back in 2009. Same thing even worse considering we got much closer in Delhi.
    Mahela Jayawardene is possibly one of the Top 3 batsmen ever in Asian conditions. Dunno how does mentioning him help your case.

    Any chance you going to talk about the large difference in W/L ratio or you going to keep finding excuses to write off Wins under Kohli and writeoff losses from last decade. So typical and predictable your arguments are.
    Any chance you will ever do a one on one comparison between the teams or you would stay on your stand that ascertaining the better batsman between VVS Laxman and Rohit Sharma is a matter of opinion? There is nothing to argue. There is not a single member of this Indian team which would find a place in the best Indian team of the 2000s except maybe Shami since our fast bowling stocks were weak then as well and maybe Rahane overseas. It's comfortably 9-2 or 10-1 to the 2000s team.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Mahela Jayawardene is possibly one of the Top 3 batsmen ever in Asian conditions. Dunno how does mentioning him help your case.
    Smith , Cook etc are better batsmen than Mahela.

    Any chance you will ever do a one on one comparison between the teams or you would stay on your stand that ascertaining the better batsman between VVS Laxman and Rohit Sharma is a matter of opinion? There is nothing to argue. There is not a single member of this Indian team which would find a place in the best Indian team of the 2000s except maybe Shami since our fast bowling stocks were weak then as well and maybe Rahane overseas. It's comfortably 9-2 or 10-1 to the 2000s team.
    The bowling attack collectively now is far better than 2000 especially when you consider their batting skills. Ash, Jadeja, Bhuvi are 10 times the batsmen than any lower order from that time period. Kohli is far better than Ganguly or VVS. And Vijay is better than Gambhir. So thats why we win more now.


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  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Smith , Cook etc are better batsmen than Mahela.
    Not in Asia.



    The bowling attack collectively now is far better than 2000 especially when you consider their batting skills. Ash, Jadeja, Bhuvi are 10 times the batsmen than any lower order from that time period. Kohli is far better than Ganguly or VVS. And Vijay is better than Gambhir. So thats why we win more now.
    Ishant and Bumrah are nobodies with the bat. Bhuvneshwar averages just about as much as Harbhajan and Ashwin's batting hardly makes up for his dreadful performances overseas.. Kumble was easily better on the whole and Jadeja can't even make the team on his bowling (even though I think he is much better than Ashwin). So no, your point doesn't stand the scrutiny.

    Also Vijay averages 35 away so he isn't all that better than Gambhir either.

    Sehwag > Rahul
    Gambhir ≈ Vijay
    Dravid > Pujara
    Tendulkar > Kohli
    Ganguly > Rohit (Rahane would be close)
    VVS > Pandya
    Dhoni > Saha
    Kumble > Ashwin
    Harbhajan > Jadeja / Bumrah
    Zaheer >Shami
    Any Random 2nd seamer on the planet > Ishant

    Nobody on the planet except yourself would call this team better than the peak 2000s team. That is bordering on asinine.
    Last edited by Proactive_; 17th January 2018 at 20:33.

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Not in Asia.
    Those two are just as good in India if not better ... check the records. Infact Mahela's only claim to greatness in India is that 275. Cook has 5 Hundreds and Smith 3. No comparison at all.

    Ishant and Bumrah are nobodies with the bat. Bhuvneshwar averages just about as much as Harbhajan and Ashwin's batting hardly makes up for his dreadful performances overseas.. Kumble was easily better on the whole and Jadeja can't even make the team on his bowling (even though I think he is much better than Ashwin). So no, your point doesn't stand the scrutiny.

    Also Vijay averages 35 away so he isn't all that better than Gambhir either.

    Sehwag > Rahul
    Gambhir ≈ Vijay
    Dravid > Pujara
    Tendulkar > Kohli
    Ganguly > Rohit (Rahane would be close)
    VVS > Pandya
    Dhoni > Saha
    Kumble > Ashwin
    Harbhajan > Jadeja / Bumrah
    Zaheer >Shami
    Any Random 2nd seamer on the planet > Ishant

    Nobody on the planet except yourself would call this team better than the peak 2000s team. That is bordering on asinine.
    As I said unless and untill you REALLY have watched the matches in the said timeframe you will get these sort of erroneous conclusions.

    In the mid 2000's Tendulkar had injury problems, VVS had a slump, Gangs had a slump Kumble was way past his best, Zack was injury prone, and untill MSD came in we had pathetic Keepers. Also Ishant > Munaf, RP, etc and Jadeja >>> the 2nd spinner. And believe me wee have never had a fast bowling allrounder like Pandya in a long time.

    Yes they turned it around later in the decade due to MSD but overall we have had better success in this decade - especially the last 5 yrs than ever before.

    You can dance all you want but a W/L ratio of 21 over a 5 yr period is unreal. It just does not happen if the team is so pathetic like you want everyone to believe.


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  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Those two are just as good in India if not better ... check the records. Infact Mahela's only claim to greatness in India is that 275. Cook has 5 Hundreds and Smith 3. No comparison at all.
    4 fifties and 1 double hundred in 6 Tests is an incredible record.



    As I said unless and untill you REALLY have watched the matches in the said timeframe you will get these sort of erroneous conclusions.

    In the mid 2000's Tendulkar had injury problems, VVS had a slump, Gangs had a slump Kumble was way past his best, Zack was injury prone, and untill MSD came in we had pathetic Keepers. Also Ishant > Munaf, RP, etc and Jadeja >>> the 2nd spinner. And believe me wee have never had a fast bowling allrounder like Pandya in a long time.

    Yes they turned it around later in the decade due to MSD but overall we have had better success in this decade - especially the last 5 yrs than ever before.

    You can dance all you want but a W/L ratio of 21 over a 5 yr period is unreal. It just does not happen if the team is so pathetic like you want everyone to believe.
    Kumble was much better overseas in the 2000s than in the 90s. Tendulkar even through his slump and all averaged 53+ in the 2000s and 54 away, Kohli even at his peak doesn't compare.

    It is you who is dancing around facts. What are the best attacks that India faced in that W/L of 21? They faced the likes of Moeen, Rashid, Sodhi, Elgar in most of these matches. They haven't played Pakistan and Yasir Shah. They failed big time against the only decent spin bowling attack they faced of Lyon /O Keefe who both averaged mid 20s and Australia almost won the series. Put the 2000s team in this scenario and they'll have a W/L of infinity.

  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    4 fifties and 1 double hundred in 6 Tests is an incredible record.
    Absolutely not ... when Cook has 5 Hundreds some of them EPIC knocks against far better bowlers in Ashwin and Jadeja. No one in his right mind will consider Harbi of 2009 to be a better bowler than these two.


    Kumble was much better overseas in the 2000s than in the 90s.
    Again ... you need to decide if Overseas performance trumps Everything else. Provide a very very CLEAR answer to that and once you have done that (Unlikely) we will continue the discussion. Otherwise you will be sitting on the fence and beating around the bush which is your way of getting out of difficult situations.

    So which is more important for you Home or Away ?


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  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    I should have been more clear in my post, I was only talking about ODI, not the biggest fan of the dying format of tests.
    Now you are in bigger trouble bro - Test comparison I can understand at home, but ODI? Really?

    Be honest here - have you ever seen that AUS side of Mark, Gilli, Panta, Martin, Lehman, Bevan, Symonds, Lee, Warne, Gillespie, Mac.....?

    If I take out these 11, still in that period it leaves

    Hayden, Clarke, Langer, Hodge, Law, Watson, McGill, Braken, Fleming, Bichel, Maher, Harvey, Jullien, Moody ..................

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Absolutely not ... when Cook has 5 Hundreds some of them EPIC knocks against far better bowlers in Ashwin and Jadeja. No one in his right mind will consider Harbi of 2009 to be a better bowler than these two.
    Ashwin and Jadeja are in no way better than Kumble and Harbhajan. Ashwin was dreadful in the 2012 England series and averaged in the 50s, not just Cook.. everyone took him on.




    Again ... you need to decide if Overseas performance trumps Everything else. Provide a very very CLEAR answer to that and once you have done that (Unlikely) we will continue the discussion. Otherwise you will be sitting on the fence and beating around the bush which is your way of getting out of difficult situations.

    So which is more important for you Home or Away ?
    Whose a better batsman in Tests.. Rohit Sharma or Ajinkya Rahane?

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Ashwin and Jadeja are in no way better than Kumble and Harbhajan. Ashwin was dreadful in the 2012 England series and averaged in the 50s, not just Cook.. everyone took him on.
    Part of the reason why Ashwin lookked dreadful was Cook who handled him superbly. He did well this time too. You need to give Credit to opposition sometimes.

    Whose a better batsman in Tests.. Rohit Sharma or Ajinkya Rahane?
    As of Now Rahane because he has played almost twice the amount of test cricket as Rohit and avgs better than Rohit.. Nothing to do with home or away bigotry that you are fan of. Now lets see a similar clear answer to my question.

    Home or Away ... which is more Important ?


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  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Part of the reason why Ashwin lookked dreadful was Cook who handled him superbly. He did well this time too. You need to give Credit to opposition sometimes.
    Sure. Just putting it out there that Ashwin was horrible in that series. He was hardly an established bowler at that point.



    As of Now Rahane because he has played almost twice the amount of test cricket as Rohit and avgs better than Rohit.. Nothing to do with home or away bigotry that you are fan of. Now lets see a similar clear answer to my question.

    Home or Away ... which is more Important ?
    So Thilan Samaraweera is a better batsman than Kevin Pietersen since he averages more then?

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Sure. Just putting it out there that Ashwin was horrible in that series. He was hardly an established bowler at that point.
    lol ... this way I can prove anyone good or bad ... depending on the situation

    So Thilan Samaraweera is a better batsman than Kevin Pietersen since he averages more then?
    So no direct answer to my question then ... as expected and accurately predicted.


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  31. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    lol ... this way I can prove anyone good or bad ... depending on the situation
    An average of 50+ obviously suggests that you've been trashed not just by the top batsmen but others as well. Not all runs against him were scored by Cook.


    So no direct answer to my question then ... as expected and accurately predicted.
    Because your question has no basis in this argument. It's just your standard shtick to deviate from the argument.

    Kumble in the 90s : Good at home, poor away
    Kumble in the 2000s : Good at home, good away

    Which Kumble was the better bowler? Answer that before putting in irrelevant stuff into the conversation, something you definitely are pretty adept at.

  32. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    An average of 50+ obviously suggests that you've been trashed not just by the top batsmen but others as well. Not all runs against him were scored by Cook.
    No doubt others made runs against him too. And Ashwin is not the only great bowler to go thru this. Shane Warne went thru the same. Are you now going to claim that he was crap too lol


    Because your question has no basis in this argument. It's just your standard shtick to deviate from the argument.

    Kumble in the 90s : Good at home, poor away
    Kumble in the 2000s : Good at home, good away

    Which Kumble was the better bowler? Answer that before putting in irrelevant stuff into the conversation, something you definitely are pretty adept at.
    The entire argument is About Home record vs Away Record. Go back and start reading the posts from prev page ... cant be bothered to re-hash the same thing.


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  33. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    No doubt others made runs against him too. And Ashwin is not the only great bowler to go thru this. Shane Warne went thru the same. Are you now going to claim that he was crap too lol
    Warne hardly ever went through a series like this against England.




    The entire argument is About Home record vs Away Record. Go back and start reading the posts from prev page ... cant be bothered to re-hash the same thing.
    It's actually about which is the better team though - India of 2000s or of today's. That's the first post you quoted. But keep changing goalposts though since your initial argument has already been buried with a one to one comparison in which today's Indian team stands so chance.

  34. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Warne hardly ever went through a series like this against England.
    Here we go again with the fixation for England News flash .... England isnt the benchmark for anything in Cricket anymore. I was referring to Warne vs India. Even at his Peak he suffered these things happen. Quite often actually.

    It's actually about which is the better team though - India of 2000s or of today's. That's the first post you quoted. But keep changing goalposts though since your initial argument has already been buried with a one to one comparison in which today's Indian team stands so chance.
    To Which my first response was by saying "by losing Series to Aus and SA at Home". Your subsequent responses and your general trolling elsewhere on PP tends to suggest that you don't value anything that happens at home. But you wont obviously admit to that as you will get royally owned. Therefore your usual deadbeat tactics to save face and make the most of the situation you find yourselves in. Same ** tactics that happened in other threads. (But cant beat the stat you once posted that had a sample size of 5 matches to prove Kohli is no good in ODI lol )

    And your hilarious suggestion that we compare one to one the sides from last decades has also been answered and I will elaborate again. You cant compare this side which has been pretty constant for the last 5 yrs to the one from last decade because for example MS Dhoni wasnt even in the side for the 1st half of the decade when most of those losses happened. And Ganguly, Kumble retired in 2008., Zack Played only about 60% of the matches. Even Sehwag was Dropped at one point and missed a year. The side was blowing hot and cold and had horrible fast bowlers and lacked a allrounder plus the batting skills of tailenders were nowhere as good as current bowlers. Then there was the Chappell saga, Ganguly being a hot head, too many injuries to key players. All of which contributed to the losses. Thats why they lost so many matches at home.

    If that side was soo good then they wouldnt have lost 8 home Test matches.


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  35. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Here we go again with the fixation for England News flash .... England isnt the benchmark for anything in Cricket anymore. I was referring to Warne vs India. Even at his Peak he suffered these things happen. Quite often actually.
    England has traditionally been weak against spin. Obviously failing against an English batting line up at home is much worse for someone labelled as a world class spinner than failing against an Indian batting line up.



    To Which my first response was by saying "by losing Series to Aus and SA at Home". Your subsequent responses and your general trolling elsewhere on PP tends to suggest that you don't value anything that happens at home. But you wont obviously admit to that as you will get royally owned. Therefore your usual deadbeat tactics to save face and make the most of the situation you find yourselves in. Same ** tactics that happened in other threads. (But cant beat the stat you once posted that had a sample size of 5 matches to prove Kohli is no good in ODI lol )
    The point concerning series losses against Aus and SA had already been addressed:

    The time India lost to SA was hardly the peak team of the 2000s. It was pretty much at the peak of the Match fixing saga.. and every single team lost to that Australian team which is arguably the greatest cricket team of all time with a Laureus sports team of the year award ( The only cricket team to ever get that honor). I'm pretty sure that Indian team didn't go 1-18 in Aus/SA/NZ/Eng either
    Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...8PY3Z42eR7J.99
    Obviously you'd neglect it. That's your modus opeandi.

    And your hilarious suggestion that we compare one to one the sides from last decades has also been answered and I will elaborate again. You cant compare this side which has been pretty constant for the last 5 yrs to the one from last decade because for example MS Dhoni wasnt even in the side for the 1st half of the decade when most of those losses happened. And Ganguly, Kumble retired in 2008., Zack Played only about 60% of the matches. Even Sehwag was Dropped at one point and missed a year. The side was blowing hot and cold and had horrible fast bowlers and lacked a allrounder plus the batting skills of tailenders were nowhere as good as current bowlers. Then there was the Chappell saga, Ganguly being a hot head, too many injuries to key players. All of which contributed to the losses. Thats why they lost so many matches at home.

    If that side was soo good then they wouldnt have lost 8 home Test matches.
    So why are you claiming that today's Indian team is better? Obviously teams wouldn't stay constant for a 10 year period. That's possibly the most understood thing in cricket. I addressed the home losses as well which you had no reply to and resorted to your "excuses" line of defense.

    3 against the ATG Australian Side.
    2 against SA boasting of a very good attack headed by one of the greatest of all time in Steyn who averages 21 in India against the ATG Indian 2000s batting line up
    1 against Pak (the strongest subcontinental challenge which this Indian team hasn't played)
    Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...bBbcDbu4pkQ.99
    Which team that India faced at home in the last 3 years was half as good as Aus. 2004 or SA 2008? None. That's something you are and will always conveniently ignore because it exposes your point even further.
    Last edited by Proactive_; 18th January 2018 at 14:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    England has traditionally been weak against spin. Obviously failing against an English batting line up at home is much worse for someone labelled as a world class spinner than failing against an Indian batting line up.
    He has also failed against a Indian batting lineup that had Ravi freakin Shastri who smacked him around when he made a double 100. Others that did similar things to him include Nayan Mongia, Siddhu , Kambli etc. These arent any better players than Cook and Smith. Not by a long shot.


    The point concerning series losses against Aus and SA had already been addressed:
    No it hasnt been. All you did was provide excuses. A great team doesnt look for excuses. Yes they had their moment like the 2001 Border Gavaskar Series which was played against the Greatest Aussie team. Thats how you win against Odds. ( Thats to answer your excuse about having to deal with top teams).

    And the Aussie team that played last year in India is very close to the 2004 Aussie side.

    And remember it was your idea to compare the 2000 Side to the current one ... lol


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  37. #277
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    @Proactive_ and BTW once the current team has the good fortune of playing a Aussie team minus their Top 2 bowlers they will win a Test match in AUS just like India did in 2003 which is what you harp about.

    Also the English side that toured last year was pretty good ... much better in Batting Dept than the 2006 side that we lost a Testmatch against.
    Last edited by Tusker; 18th January 2018 at 14:20.


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  38. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    He has also failed against a Indian batting lineup that had Ravi freakin Shastri who smacked him around when he made a double 100. Others that did similar things to him include Nayan Mongia, Siddhu , Kambli etc. These arent any better players than Cook and Smith. Not by a long shot.
    Yes because no other great bowler ever in history has been smacked on his debut. Siddu and Kambli were great against spin.




    No it hasnt been. All you did was provide excuses. A great team doesnt look for excuses. Yes they had their moment like the 2001 Border Gavaskar Series which was played against the Greatest Aussie team. Thats how you win against Odds. ( Thats to answer your excuse about having to deal with top teams).

    And the Aussie team that played last year in India is very close to the 2004 Aussie side.

    And remember it was your idea to compare the 2000 Side to the current one ... lol
    Please tell me you're trolling. What in the freaking hell?
    Last edited by Proactive_; 18th January 2018 at 14:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    @Proactive_ and BTW once the current team has the good fortune of playing a Aussie team minus their Top 2 bowlers they will win a Test match in AUS just like India did in 2003 which is what you harp about.

    Also the English side that toured last year was pretty good ... much better in Batting Dept than the 2006 side that we lost a Testmatch against.
    Yeah, Moeen and Rashid along with an inured James Anderson is such an incredible bowling attack to contend with.

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    They had opportunity to be regarded in same vein as Australia of 2000s had they won the SA series, but they botched it big time.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  41. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Yes because no other great bowler ever in history has been smacked on his debut. Siddu and Kambli were great against spin.
    And no great bowler has been smacked after debut , mid way, peak etc? Is that your theory to prove Ashwin is not a great bowler ?

    Anyhow Ashwin was also a rookie having played only 8 tests before that Series.

    So you are now stuck either way. Time to look for new Excuse?


    Please tell me you're trolling. What in the freaking hell?
    Calm down .. I said close to 2004. That team did not feature Ponting and Warne did not play last test. Also the fast bowlers were past their prime. And they were lucky to escape in Chennai, helped in Nagpur by politics, Tendulkar not playing 2 tests, and pathetic umpiring.

    Whereas Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Lyon is a serious bowling lineup. Then consider the amount of your own drool that you churn out when discussing Smith and DRS taking care of rogue umpires. So therefore it's a pretty good side that did well.

  42. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    And no great bowler has been smacked after debut , mid way, peak etc? Is that your theory to prove Ashwin is not a great bowler ?

    Anyhow Ashwin was also a rookie having played only 8 tests before that Series.

    So you are now stuck either way. Time to look for new Excuse?
    Does that not strengthen my argument? Of course Ashwin was hardly established that's why Cook performance against him isn't THAT impressive. Sure he did great but Mahela is comfortably a better batsman in Asia. Of course you had to turn it into a Warne Vs Ashwin argument to suit your agenda and lose track of the discussion at hand




    Calm down .. I said close to 2004. That team did not feature Ponting and Warne did not play last test. Also the fast bowlers were past their prime. And they were lucky to escape in Chennai, helped in Nagpur by politics, Tendulkar not playing 2 tests, and pathetic umpiring.

    Whereas Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins, Lyon is a serious bowling lineup. Then consider the amount of your own drool that you churn out when discussing Smith and DRS taking care of rogue umpires. So therefore it's a pretty good side that did well.
    Nowhere near the Aus 2004 side which you claim. The batting in the 2004 side was miles ahead and an attack of McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Kasprowicz is consderiably better as well. Seriously, you lost a TON of credibility with that statement lol. That's a bookmarkable quote if I ever saw one.

  43. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Does that not strengthen my argument? Of course Ashwin was hardly established that's why Cook performance against him isn't THAT impressive.
    As was Harbhajan before the 2001 Series so Haydens 500 runs in that series dont count then lol ?... do you think that everything is Black and White in Test Cricket? You cant determine these things based on 2nd hand information. You need to watch the action. Ashwin bowled Well in that series. Cook played him better. Just like how a rookie Jimmy Adams and Chanderpaul blunted Kumble in 93/94 ... are you going to say Kumble was a Crap bowler now ? Gotta give credit where its due.

    Sure he did great but Mahela is comfortably a better batsman in Asia. Of course you had to turn it into a Warne Vs Ashwin argument to suit your agenda and lose track of the discussion at hand
    Not supported by basic common sense ... how exactly are you going to arrive at that conclusion when Cook has 5 hundreds over multiple series to Mahela's one single hundred in one series. And then there is facing Harbhajan in 2009 vs Ashwin in his Prime. No contest.


    Nowhere near the Aus 2004 side which you claim. The batting in the 2004 side was miles ahead and an attack of McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Kasprowicz is consderiably better as well. Seriously, you lost a TON of credibility with that statement lol. That's a bookmarkable quote if I ever saw one.
    I dont lose sleep over your utterly biased opinions infact I would take the exact opposite meaning of what you say. Such is your understanding of Cricket (totally upside down). Did you even understand what I wrote there ? Read it closely and lets see if you get what Iam saying the 2nd time... and let me assure you no amount of Googling or Statsguru is going to help you here. You had to have actually watched both series live ball-by-ball and followed the news around that series. *** you did not even know about the Umpiring blunders in that series and you went googling last time and found nothing so you declared that I was lying


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  44. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    As was Harbhajan before the 2001 Series so Haydens 500 runs in that series dont count then lol ?... do you think that everything is Black and White in Test Cricket? You cant determine these things based on 2nd hand information. You need to watch the action. Ashwin bowled Well in that series. Cook played him better. Just like how a rookie Jimmy Adams and Chanderpaul blunted Kumble in 93/94 ... are you going to say Kumble was a Crap bowler now ? Gotta give credit where its due.
    Except Harbhajan actually bowled well in that series, Ashwin didn't in 2012. I'm not saying Cook is a bad player in the subcontinent, obviously he's better than 99% of the English batsmen who have played here but claiming that he is better in Asia than someone like Mahela is laughable.



    Not supported by basic common sense ... how exactly are you going to arrive at that conclusion when Cook has 5 hundreds over multiple series to Mahela's one single hundred in one series. And then there is facing Harbhajan in 2009 vs Ashwin in his Prime. No contest.
    Ashwin was not in his prime in 2012. Cook pretty much failed in the 2016 series. Mahela has 1 double and 4 fifties in six tests in India across 2 series. That's a great record.




    I dont lose sleep over your utterly biased opinions infact I would take the exact opposite meaning of what you say. Such is your understanding of Cricket (totally upside down). Did you even understand what I wrote there ? Read it closely and lets see if you get what Iam saying the 2nd time... and let me assure you no amount of Googling or Statsguru is going to help you here. You had to have actually watched both series live ball-by-ball and followed the news around that series. *** you did not even know about the Umpiring blunders in that series and you went googling last time and found nothing so you declared that I was lying
    [And the Aussie team that played last year in India is very close to the 2004 Aussie side.

    This is your exact statement. No matter as much you try, it doesn't change the fact that it is unequivocally a legitimate 100% embarrassing statement. Seriously. What were you even thinking?
    Last edited by hadi123; 19th January 2018 at 18:43.

  45. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Also, I did bump the Kohli ODI thread which you abandoned after being presented with facts. You'll abandon this one as well after your rhetoric game dries out..
    Here is that thread : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...-Ponting/page5

    Do tell how


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  46. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    See post # 358, a post you had no reply to hence you decided to be choosy to reply to barely 10% of the post on which you had any matter to present .. and then started repeating yourself again and again on the Bilateral-Tri Series stuff, something which I had substantiated on again and again in that thread itself.

    Nice to see you remembering the exact thread you ran away from because there were quite a few Kohli ODI threads at that time..
    Last edited by Proactive_; 19th January 2018 at 13:49.

  47. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    See post # 358, a post you had no reply to hence you decided to be choosy to reply to barely 10% of the post on which you had any matter to present ..
    That 10% is the main point that was being discussed ... wasnt it ? And its Not like you provide answers to all points that I make ... for instance where is the answer to the Ind-Pak Bilateral vs Khaleej Times tri-series popularity in that same thread ? Where is the CLEAR answer to my question about which is more imp: Home or Away in this thread ? (And I can keep going ) .

    And BTW your fixation for Tri-Series spilled over to some other thread from which you ran away again (see below ). So dont try to tell me that people are avoiding you because you made some earth shattering posts.

    If these are so important go bump that thread and make sure you answer atleast the important questions that people are asking BEFORE you ask more questions and try to divert the thread to elsewhere.


    and then started repeating yourself again and again on the Bilateral-Tri Series stuff, something which I had substantiated on again and again in that thread itself.
    Because you got caught arguing that Any Tri-Series > Bilaterals (which is why you will never answer that Khaleej Times qustion and few others pertaining to that topic).. Everyone knows your stupid agenda here. Your simple modus operandi is to find SG filters where Kohli/India has not done well and then go on to claim that those filters are what seperate the real cricketers from the rest.


    Nice to see you remembering the exact thread you ran away from because there were quite a few Kohli ODI threads at that time..
    Why dont you tell me when you last bumped that thread? Bloody hell you were even happy about how I was one of the few posters to indulge in a proper debate without any insecurities

    And while we are on the topic of running away from threads here is another thread that you ran away from : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...ran-Khan/page3 ( No reply to Post# 215 )

    And another : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...39#post9440139 ( No reply to Post# 107 )


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  48. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    With sub 40 average batsmen in our team along with the ATG Virat Kholi there is no doubt that this batting line up matches up with the great Australians. Dhawan, Rohit, Rahul, Kholi are all comparable to Gilchrist, Hayden, Ponting, Bevan.

    The bowling is lining up well and improving day by day. Fast bowlers are reaching new heights as Bhuvi, Yadav and Shami consistently hit 140+ They always come out with a plan backed by the agile and swift fielding. Spinners also play an important role and this is where India might better the Aussies, as we have spinners capable of wreaking havoc in the subcontinent.

    India have dominated world cricket since the 2011 cricket World Cup but now, starting with this Pakistan match, it seems like team India will be ruthlessly dominating all opponents similar to the Australians of the 2000s.
    I....what...my mind can not compute...were you high?

  49. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    That 10% is the main point that was being discussed ... wasnt it ? And its Not like you provide answers to all points that I make ... for instance where is the answer to the Ind-Pak Bilateral vs Khaleej Times tri-series popularity in that same thread ? Where is the CLEAR answer to my question about which is more imp: Home or Away in this thread ? (And I can keep going ) .

    And BTW your fixation for Tri-Series spilled over to some other thread from which you ran away again (see below ). So dont try to tell me that people are avoiding you because you made some earth shattering posts.
    Yeah, obviously the 10% was the discussion because you had no reply to the other 90% . I already said it a million times in that thread that an India-Pak-SL tri series would be much better than any permutation of bilteral series between the three. Your argument is something on the lines that since an Ind-Pak bilateral series is much better than a Uganda-Zim-PNG Tri Series hence I've failed my argument lol.

    If these are so important go bump that thread and make sure you answer atleast the important questions that people are asking BEFORE you ask more questions and try to divert the thread to elsewhere.

    Because you got caught arguing that Any Tri-Series > Bilaterals (which is why you will never answer that Khaleej Times qustion and few others pertaining to that topic).. Everyone knows your stupid agenda here. Your simple modus operandi is to find SG filters where Kohli/India has not done well and then go on to claim that those filters are what seperate the real cricketers from the rest.
    I didn't accuse anyone of running away from threads. You did.. and now you're throwing a hissy fit when being paid back in kind




    Why dont you tell me when you last bumped that thread? Bloody hell you were even happy about how I was one of the few posters to indulge in a proper debate without any insecurities
    And while we are on the topic of running away from threads here is another thread that you ran away from : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...ran-Khan/page3 ( No reply to Post# 215 )
    Because you didn't give a reply on how you're planning to equate the longevity of a batsman to a captaining bowling all rounder.

    And another : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...39#post9440139 ( No reply to Post# 107 )
    Because you're somehow fixated on the issue of rain washing away matches in Tri Series, something which can happen in any bilateral as well with equal probability.

    Also, as a I said, your argument basically is that since an Eng-Aus bilateral series is more interesting than a tri series between three minnows.. I have somehow "failed" in my argument that Tri series are superior.. which wasn't even my point in the first place. It's obviously that for three evenly matched teams , a tri series is much more compelling than watching three bilateral series between them.
    Last edited by Proactive_; 21st January 2018 at 09:27.

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    The mandatory bump

    Although this time not to laugh at how India were blown away by the opposition but to appreciate the phainta India delivered to SA in the 3rd test.

    Is this the start of a new epoch for Indian pace? Can India become a competitive force in overseas test?

    Time will tell that. Can't wait for their next overseas series!

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    What's the update on this?


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  52. #292
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    Outside Kohli, none will even be able to walk into that team.

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    They even lost the ODI series and Test series' result looking ominous as well

    Superstars shown their place

  54. #294
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    India is becoming the India they always were after a decade of punching above their weight thanks to some team building and change of culture done by Ganguly and Dhoni.. they are back to the mediocrity that’s been characteristic of them for 80% of their cricketing history!

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    Back to normal. 😄

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    India were always minnows. Just for a period of 7-8 years from early to mid 2000s they were above average and for the next few years they were a competent side. Apart from this period India were always minnows.

  57. #297
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    A well deserved reality check for delusional fans

  58. #298
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    Apr 2018
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    To this thread i would use the great @Mamoon's words when he got overjoyed when Pakistan got beaten by Australia in a t20I match:


    The fans deserve this humiliation.

    In this case, the fans are indians.


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