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View Poll Results: 1992, 2009, or 2017? Which was Pakistan's greatest victory in an ICC tournament?

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  • 1992 World Cup

    77 61.60%
  • 2009 WT20

    4 3.20%
  • 2017 Champions Trophy

    44 35.20%
Results 1 to 74 of 74
  1. #1
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    1992, 2009, or 2017? Which was Pakistan's greatest victory in an ICC tournament?

    Today was one of the more memorable days in Pakistan Cricket, as we lifted our third LOI title.

    Where does our maiden Champions Trophy triumph rank amongst Pakistan's most cherished moments as a cricketing nation, i.e. WC 92, WT20 09, CT 17?


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  2. #2
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    Can't really top the 92 World Cup but this isn't far from it... not only did we win the champions trophy, we did it defying the odds and all the obstacles which are in the way of Pakistan cricket. We definitely saw a new Pakistan and the cornered tigers came our roaring! Champions trophy - won
    Mental block against India - overcome
    #pakistanchampions

  3. #3
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    2017 Champions Trophy is first for me, I'll remember this for life..

  4. #4
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    1992 easily.

    A better poll would have been between 2009 and 2017.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  5. #5
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    the first one (1992) is usually the most important but this one (2017) is the greatest considering Pakistan was ranked worst team in the tournament and was humiliated in the first game

  6. #6
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    1992. Arguably best win in team sports history. One of the best ever.

  7. #7
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    I wasn't alive during 1992.

    Wasn't jazbati enough during 2009.

    But this is the best moment of my life, today. CT 2017 all the way.

    I no longer have to look at 2009 videos to console myself anymore after losses.

    We are the freaking champions babbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


    Hum na hon hamare baad, Sarfraz Sarfraz

  8. #8
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    In my opinion 2017 was the best. When the tournament started no one expected us to be in semi final let alone win the champions trophy. Even some experts were treating us as minnows. I don't blame them though, most of us were not expecting Pakistan to win. Pakistan peaked during the right time and proved everyone wrong.

  9. #9
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    2017 because we were down and out . team going no where . we had no big names before the tournament now some of them are grabbed all the lime light
    we beat 3 favourite sides to lift the trophy .
    if you compare 2009 that was a t20 tournament we just had 2 knockout games
    here we have played 4 knockout games and aboslutely put opposition on floor


    New Era of Team Pakistan

  10. #10
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    '92 was a world cup so can't compare it to that.

    '17 trump the T20 tournament for sure though

  11. #11
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    In my lifetime this

    Otherwise 92

    ODI is an inherently superior format to t20s so an ICC trophy in that is better than any ICC trophy in t20s

  12. #12
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    Champions trophy is like nothing has happened, nothing has changed...2009 world cup was a long terrifying journey that finally concluded with a win.

    the asia cup win against Bangladesh still had a lot of feeling in it.

    Don't know why but this is the very honest feeling I'm having.


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  13. #13
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    I've never seen the 1992 or 2009 game but obviously this 2017 game will remain my favourite game till now.

  14. #14
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    1992, 2017 and 2009.

  15. #15
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    The 2009 T20 WC was the first tournament I had ever watched(apart from the WT20 2007 final).It sparked my interest in cricket so will always remain close to my heart,but this Champions Trophy win was amazing and truly remarkable in the way we achieved it.

    A fairytale win really,barely making it to the tournament,lowest ranked side in the competition,a crushing defeat against India in the first match.And now,rightful Champions.

  16. #16
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    In terms of stature: 92

    In terms of importance to country: 09 - came at a time when national morale was at a real depressing low

    2017 is the most unexpected though by far


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  17. #17
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    all where special but 2009 was the special one for me, got into cricket in 2007, seeing pakistan lose in the first round of the odi world cup, and than the final in t20 2007 against india made me very sad inside and felt all would be forgiven if they win thie 2009 world t20, it felt like destiny the way the team got it going, was remarkable, and seeing how Afridi played during that tournament was amazing.

  18. #18
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    I think as a cricket team this has been our most clinical performance in an ICC tournament. Post India game we have been right on the money. We had a minor hiccup against Srilanka but all in all 92 and 2009 were not as convincing wins. The manner we played the semis and finals was unbelievable.


    "Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they prosper and die in the hands of politicians."-Iqbal

  19. #19
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    I think this Champions Trophy is the biggest surprise and probably the weakest team on paper?



  20. #20
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    whoever voted for other than 1992 world cup win, I would call them just a part timers cricket watching fans. I don't think so they have any knowledge of cricket. 99% of them may not know the difference between yorker and half volley.


    IamHalfBelongToAnationWhere35PunchersAreRewarded. ThanksToDad'sEffortsnWisdom ForOtherHalfFromNoreg.

  21. #21
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    In 1992 we had a very strong side, and won by very tight margins, and rain helped us...

    But in 2017, our side was weak on paper, but we absolutely demolished opposition and killed the critics/indians to death...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaja View Post
    In 1992 we had a very strong side, and won by very tight margins, and rain helped us...

    But in 2017, our side was weak on paper, but we absolutely demolished opposition and killed the critics/indians to death...
    How did rain helped us in 1992? I am really sick of this nonsense from many immature fans?

    How many points rain had given you? One right?

    Do you know how many point did we lost because of rain??????? If you don't know, I am here to tell you that we lost two very easy points because of rain. There was a black rule in that world cup, which hurt Pakistan against SA in league match.

    The score SA made in 50 overs, the pretty much the same score we had to make in 36 overs, they reduced our 14 overs for only a couple of runs.

    That match was going One sided in Pakistan's favor, we could have won by 7 wickets and 50 balls remaining.

    When rain started during Paksitan's innings they came back with new target that was crap... they reduced 14 overs for pretty same target.

    After world cup, they changed that crap rule.


    IamHalfBelongToAnationWhere35PunchersAreRewarded. ThanksToDad'sEffortsnWisdom ForOtherHalfFromNoreg.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajidBhuta-AamirFan View Post
    How did rain helped us in 1992? I am really sick of this nonsense from many immature fans?

    How many points rain had given you? One right?

    Do you know how many point did we lost because of rain??????? If you don't know, I am here to tell you that we lost two very easy points because of rain. There was a black rule in that world cup, which hurt Pakistan against SA in league match.

    The score SA made in 50 overs, the pretty much the same score we had to make in 36 overs, they reduced our 14 overs for only a couple of runs.

    That match was going One sided in Pakistan's favor, we could have won by 7 wickets and 50 balls remaining.

    When rain started during Paksitan's innings they came back with new target that was crap... they reduced 14 overs for pretty same target.

    After world cup, they changed that crap rule.
    when we were dismissed to 72 by England but that match was abandoned.. we both 1 point.. So rain gave us 1 point for a game we're going to lose.. anyways we barely made it to knockouts.. let that sink in

  24. #24
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    92 World Cup will always remain the greatest as it is the first World Cup win but 2017 CT will go up there in history as a major win in our cricketing history. Against the odds we won it. '09 T20 was also very good but a classic ODI ICC tournament win will always beat a T20.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaja View Post
    when we were dismissed to 72 by England but that match was abandoned.. we both 1 point.. So rain gave us 1 point for a game we're going to lose.. anyways we barely made it to knockouts.. let that sink in
    Looks like you don't have any clue about cricket, If you were good in watching cricket, you would have brought Pakistan vs SA match into rain discussion.. Pakistan lost two points because rain, that match Pakistan would have won easily. Pakistan lost because of rain. They reduced Paksitan's 14 overs, and the revised target was pretty same.

    SA made only 211 in 50 overs, and Pakistan was going win this match very easily when rain started in the middle of Pakistan's innings, so they they Pakistan 14 overs for pretty much same target. When they reduced Pakistan's 14 overs, then the run rate jumped to sky high, so Pakistan had to play very fast and lost their wickets.. Otherwise that match was just one sided match..

    According to today's DL rules, Pakitan should be consider a winner and a target would have been set 162.

    "When Pakistan was 74/2 after 21.3 overs, rain halted the play for an hour and the target was revised to 194 in 36 overs. (a Duckworth/Lewis calculation under the rules in 2006 would have set a target of 162)"

    Here is the cricinfo link for that match, read the last tow lines of the page. Every Pakistani fan should read the last two lines of this page, hope after that they will stop crap of rain against England's match.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...tch/65139.html


    IamHalfBelongToAnationWhere35PunchersAreRewarded. ThanksToDad'sEffortsnWisdom ForOtherHalfFromNoreg.

  26. #26
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    How many points Pakistan gain because of rain, just one from England, right?

    How many points Pakistan lost because of rain in the same world cup? two from SA.

    "When Pakistan was 74/2 after 21.3 overs, rain halted the play for an hour and the target was revised to 194 in 36 overs. (a Duckworth/Lewis calculation under the rules in 2006 would have set a target of 162).

    Pakistan was winnings that match so easily while rain destroyed the one sided winning show to Lost.


    IamHalfBelongToAnationWhere35PunchersAreRewarded. ThanksToDad'sEffortsnWisdom ForOtherHalfFromNoreg.

  27. #27
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    1-1992
    2-2017
    3-2009

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajidBhuta-AamirFan View Post
    Looks like you don't have any clue about cricket, If you were good in watching cricket, you would have brought Pakistan vs SA match into rain discussion.. Pakistan lost two points because rain, that match Pakistan would have won easily. Pakistan lost because of rain. They reduced Paksitan's 14 overs, and the revised target was pretty same.

    SA made only 211 in 50 overs, and Pakistan was going win this match very easily when rain started in the middle of Pakistan's innings, so they they Pakistan 14 overs for pretty much same target. When they reduced Pakistan's 14 overs, then the run rate jumped to sky high, so Pakistan had to play very fast and lost their wickets.. Otherwise that match was just one sided match..

    According to today's DL rules, Pakitan should be consider a winner and a target would have been set 162.

    "When Pakistan was 74/2 after 21.3 overs, rain halted the play for an hour and the target was revised to 194 in 36 overs. (a Duckworth/Lewis calculation under the rules in 2006 would have set a target of 162)"

    Here is the cricinfo link for that match, read the last tow lines of the page. Every Pakistani fan should read the last two lines of this page, hope after that they will stop crap of rain against England's match.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...tch/65139.html
    u spoke my heart....

  29. #29
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    92>17>09

  30. #30
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    I was way too small to remember 1992 but compared to 2009 - our CT victory feels better.

    However, the 2009 World T20 was won at a time when Pakistan cricket was in free fall (even worse than it is now) due to terrorism, isolation, oath-taking etc. so it came at a time when we REALLY needed it.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajidBhuta-AamirFan View Post
    How did rain helped us in 1992? I am really sick of this nonsense from many immature fans?

    How many points rain had given you? One right?

    Do you know how many point did we lost because of rain??????? If you don't know, I am here to tell you that we lost two very easy points because of rain. There was a black rule in that world cup, which hurt Pakistan against SA in league match.

    The score SA made in 50 overs, the pretty much the same score we had to make in 36 overs, they reduced our 14 overs for only a couple of runs.

    That match was going One sided in Pakistan's favor, we could have won by 7 wickets and 50 balls remaining.

    When rain started during Paksitan's innings they came back with new target that was crap... they reduced 14 overs for pretty same target.

    After world cup, they changed that crap rule.
    One more point is that NZ was unbeaten and fav in that tournament until Pakistan defeated them twice in a row group match and knockout.

  32. #32
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    1992 was fluke. Lost to every damn team participating in the event.

    2009 we peaked at the right time but the teams we beat were easy and it was T20.

    2017 Defeated two best ODI teams in semi-final and final to win it. Team was ranked 8th and had to qualify for the event. Final win was against India so it becomes a really big thing especially after the horrible performances against them in ICC events.

  33. #33
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    2017 for a number of reasons.

    Of course 92 is the World Cup but for the level of cricket, quality of opposition, strength (weakness) of our own team, the rivalry, the vs India record/hoodoo, the brutality of the defeats inflicted v England/India, this one is by far an away a greater achievement.

    The CT might not be as prestigious but it's no cake-walk given that it's contested by 8 teams, the top 8 teams of the time i.e no invitational minnows to bump up numbers.

    2017, following our international exile, terrorism, IPL snubs, politics amongst other issues is a far greater achievement for Pakistan cricket than the other 2, personally.
    Last edited by Sunzi; 20th June 2017 at 07:46.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad10 View Post
    Today was one of the more memorable days in Pakistan Cricket, as we lifted our third LOI title.

    Where does our maiden Champions Trophy triumph rank amongst Pakistan's most cherished moments as a cricketing nation, i.e. WC 92, WT20 09, CT 17?
    Millennials will obviously select 2017. As they did not see much of Wasim, Saaed, Waqar, Baasit days.

  35. #35
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    2017 was much better than 1992..... don't be jealous

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsjsj View Post
    Millennials will obviously select 2017. As they did not see much of Wasim, Saaed, Waqar, Baasit days.
    I saw them all and a lot of them too.

    2017 makes up for so much (Bangalore, Mohali etc.)

  37. #37
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    2017 because first pakistan never reached he finals let alone won the title before and secondly pakistan won after 20 years of inauguration, pakistan was direly missing out CT title since long time

    thirdly, 1992 world cup was won shortly after pakistan were finalists in 1985 and then again had a good chance to win another WC in 1999, CT17 was the only occasion pakistan had opportunity to win the title

    fourthly it was not india but england, pakistan has always lost to india in the world cup

    fifthly, pakistan still had miandad, imran and wasim, waqar, this time there wasnt any superstar to begin with, the team was ranked 8th and barely qualified for the champions trophy itself

    sixthly, cricket was going very down hill in pak, this trophy will reinvegurate cricketing passion in the country
    Last edited by Macho Mann; 20th June 2017 at 08:17.

  38. #38
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    2017 trumps them all for me. We barely made it to the tournament and came in ranked at number 8. After the first loss to India, not even a die hard Pakistani fan could have imagined Pak making the semifinal let alone going to the final and winning it. In the semi final, we gave an epic trashing to England, the tournament favourites and a team that gave us a royal whooping in ODIs about this time last year.

    Lastly, the final itself, defeating arch rival India not only required us to defeat a far superior side on paper but also it required the team to overcome the mental scars from facing India in ICC events, including the 2007 World T20 final. At the end, the team didn't just defeat India, they destroyed them. Bowling out the number one batting lineup for just 158 runs to record a 180 run victory, could not have gotten any better than that.

    The 92 and 09 tournaments were significant for Pak cricket, but as a pak fan you could not have dreamed of a more fairytale tournament than the one we just witnessed in 2017.

  39. #39
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    No doubt world cup is cup but for me it has too be 2017. I wasn't born in 92, watched full 09 t20wc and was very happy for pak. But in 2017 I was in an Indian city and seeing the manhoos chehras of Indians after the defeat gave me eternal peace. And the way kashmiris celebrated this win was gold. Pak defeated india in a big tournament final, as a kashmiri you won't ask for more.

  40. #40
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    It's the 92 world cup. Wasn't alive for it but the way Pakistan came back from the dumps and won the tournament was remarkable. Loved 2009 and 2017 , they were won in similar fashion to the 92 world cup.

  41. #41
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    2009 was an expected victory due to what happened in 2007.

    2017 is the best as it was a fairy tale ending for us.

    After we got beaten by India, every Indian bashed Pakistan. THey gave us the crap "oh in the past they were a good team, it was fun playing htem , now they are a joke we dont even bother"

    Guess what? THe final took place between India, and Pakistan destroyed them. Destroyed them sooo bad that the India's win against Pakistan in the first game wasn't that big like this one.

    This itself becomes a sporting story. A very good hollywood film could be made on this


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  42. #42
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    All 3 were great moments.

    But :

    1. 1992
    2. 2017
    3. 2009

    I'm only putting 1992 first as it was the world cup. The ct2017 was very very close. Because of the performances in the semi and the final. And because thrashing India was special.

  43. #43
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    For nostalgia and pedigree: 1992
    Objectively the most unbelievable victory and perhaps the greatest: 2017.
    Never ranked t20 internationals or tournaments.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by aukhan View Post
    1992 was fluke. Lost to every damn team participating in the event.

    2009 we peaked at the right time but the teams we beat were easy and it was T20.

    2017 Defeated two best ODI teams in semi-final and final to win it. Team was ranked 8th and had to qualify for the event. Final win was against India so it becomes a really big thing especially after the horrible performances against them in ICC events.
    Lol
    Not a very positive chap are u?

    You managed to find faults in all three triumphs. I shudder to think what you thought of the campaigns we didn't do well in.

    Be positive yaar. A win is a win.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    I think this Champions Trophy is the biggest surprise and probably the weakest team on paper?
    I think the CT17 batting was better than the 09 one which was dominated by bowlers and we know how Amir, Razzaq, Gul (especially), Afridi and Ajmal schooled the rest of the bunch.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Lol
    Not a very positive chap are u?

    You managed to find faults in all three triumphs. I shudder to think what you thought of the campaigns we didn't do well in.

    Be positive yaar. A win is a win.
    We deserved luck in 92 - lost 2 of the best players in the international circuit in Saeed Anwar and Waqar. The latter was at the peak of his career and at the time even better than Wasim since he was consistently able to dismantle batting line ups single handedly.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajidBhuta-AamirFan View Post
    How did rain helped us in 1992? I am really sick of this nonsense from many immature fans?

    How many points rain had given you? One right?

    Do you know how many point did we lost because of rain??????? If you don't know, I am here to tell you that we lost two very easy points because of rain. There was a black rule in that world cup, which hurt Pakistan against SA in league match.

    The score SA made in 50 overs, the pretty much the same score we had to make in 36 overs, they reduced our 14 overs for only a couple of runs.

    That match was going One sided in Pakistan's favor, we could have won by 7 wickets and 50 balls remaining.

    When rain started during Paksitan's innings they came back with new target that was crap... they reduced 14 overs for pretty same target.

    After world cup, they changed that crap rule.
    the reason is Pakistan would have been out of contention by the time they met SA had the rain not robbed England of a deserved win. What happens after that has nothing to do with that. It is a harsh fact. The 1992 World Cup was a big farce because of that idiotic rain rule. Anyone with a basic understanding of cricket will tell you that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    the reason is Pakistan would have been out of contention by the time they met SA had the rain not robbed England of a deserved win. What happens after that has nothing to do with that. It is a harsh fact. The 1992 World Cup was a big farce because of that idiotic rain rule. Anyone with a basic understanding of cricket will tell you that.

    You are not giving the whole picture. Only the part which strengthens your point.

    Without doubt, Pakistan needed an element of luck in 1992. Where you are completely wrong is that Pakistan were out of the competition had they lost to England. NO - they weren't.

    Imagine the scenario :

    Pakistan lose to England - 0 points.

    Pakistan faced South Africa a week later. They were chasing 211 off 50 overs. They were 73/2 off 21 overs and cruising it. The rain came and the target became a ridiculous 194 off 36 overs. 14 overs lost yet only 18 runs removed from the original target! Pakistan reached 173-8 - 21 runs short of their target. Using your words, anyone with a basic understanding of cricket will tell you that if Pakistan scored 100 runs off 15 overs and had 2 wickets left, they would have absolutely romped home chasing 138 off 29 overs with 8 wickets left which was the requirement when the rain came. At the very least, Pakistan were firm favourites before the rain.

    So - the fact is that the rain helped Pakistan against England and got them one point. But it cost them a certain 2 points against South Africa. You can play the 'Pakistan may have collapsed' card and still lost against South Africa. But then I think you'd be clutching at straws don't you?
    Last edited by idrizzy; 22nd July 2017 at 19:29.

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    I think anyone would value a 50 over WC victory over a World T20 or Champions Trophy victory.


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  50. #50
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    Impact wise 1992.

    But the recent victory over India in the final gave immense happiness to the nation. Wouldnt have been the same if we had won against any other team.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    You are not giving the whole picture. Only the part which strengthens your point.

    Without doubt, Pakistan needed an element of luck in 1992. Where you are completely wrong is that Pakistan were out of the competition had they lost to England. NO - they weren't.

    Imagine the scenario :

    Pakistan lose to England - 0 points.

    Pakistan faced South Africa a week later.
    having been ruled out of contention for a s/f spot due to the loss to India in the previous match (and Eng in the match before that and WI in the match before that ... ).... so you were saying ...... ?


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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    having been ruled out of contention for a s/f spot due to the loss to India in the previous match (and Eng in the match before that and WI in the match before that ... ).... so you were saying ...... ?
    LOL..... you're wrong !

    How can you be ruled out of a semi final spot and still make the semi final?? You said before that if Pakistan had lost against England, they would have been out of the semi finals by the time they played SA? This is also wrong. They were still in with a chance.

    Let me make it simple for you.

    England beat Pakistan - 0 points on merit.

    Pakistan beat South Africa - 2 points on merit.

    Luck balances itself out. Pakistan go through anyway.

    If this hasn't sunk again, let me try another tack.

    The teams BELOW Pakistan in the table.

    India and Sri Lanka were 4 points behind and not in contention. Zimbabwe were 6 points behind.

    Windies and Australia were 1 point behind and had a lower run rate.

    You may then say, the point against England was the difference. YES - it was. BUT- the 2 points against Saffers would have compensated if luck evened out.

    In addition, Windies and Australia were both unaffected by D/L and did not rely on any win or loss based on D/L. Pakistan gained a point against England cos of D/L but LOST 2 points also cos of D/L v SA.

    So - you were saying?? In fact, if you are still saying, then I give up...........I've made my point.

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    I have watched all 3 of them live. It's very close between 1992 and 2017 but I will give it to 92. Nothing can beat the sights of Miandad hugging Imran and finally Imran lifting the trophy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    the reason is Pakistan would have been out of contention by the time they met SA had the rain not robbed England of a deserved win. What happens after that has nothing to do with that. It is a harsh fact. The 1992 World Cup was a big farce because of that idiotic rain rule. Anyone with a basic understanding of cricket will tell you that.
    Actually it doesn't. I did that calculation for Mamoon, some years back.

    Had that match (ENG) been against AUS or WI (teams that missed out), then it was a case because, in that case 1 point counts into 2. But, it's England, who qualified with higher points (13). For the sake of saying, if that ENG match had not been washed out, still PAK, WI & AUS eventually ends at 8 points each & NRR comes to equation - because head to head was again equal (Pak, AUS & WI winning one each against each other's) while instead of 13, Poms wound have finished on 14 points. In any case, mathematically PAK wasn't out before that SAF match or even after losing it, they won't had been eliminated - mathematically could have made the cut with 8 points.

    In fact, in a 9 team round robin league, a team isn't out, until losing 6 out of 8 matches for a top 4 cut. It's 36 matches, 72 points - theoretically, possible that one ends at 16, one at 14 & one at 12 - then 5 at 6 points each & the 9th at 0. So the team with better NRR out of 5 standing at 6 each will make the cut for 4th. And, this is NRR - means, you can make lots of ground in one match, therefore untill last match, every combination is possible as long as one has 4 wins out of 8.

    Eventually, rain almost certainly cost PAK 2 points against SAF, but if for the sake of saying, we don't consider that, still PAK wasn't out of tournament even had rain not washed out the ENG-PAK match.


    Sorry to intrude here, but you always put your arguments in a bullish way which exceeds the limit of arogency, and politeness, for that I was expecting better than this from you. It's a matter of simple home work, which YouTube won't give you readymade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Actually it doesn't. I did that calculation for Mamoon, some years back.

    Had that match (ENG) been against AUS or WI (teams that missed out), then it was a case because, in that case 1 point counts into 2. But, it's England, who qualified with higher points (13). For the sake of saying, if that ENG match had not been washed out, still PAK, WI & AUS eventually ends at 8 points each & NRR comes to equation - because head to head was again equal (Pak, AUS & WI winning one each against each other's) while instead of 13, Poms wound have finished on 14 points. In any case, mathematically PAK wasn't out before that SAF match or even after losing it, they won't had been eliminated - mathematically could have made the cut with 8 points.

    In fact, in a 9 team round robin league, a team isn't out, until losing 6 out of 8 matches for a top 4 cut. It's 36 matches, 72 points - theoretically, possible that one ends at 16, one at 14 & one at 12 - then 5 at 6 points each & the 9th at 0. So the team with better NRR out of 5 standing at 6 each will make the cut for 4th. And, this is NRR - means, you can make lots of ground in one match, therefore untill last match, every combination is possible as long as one has 4 wins out of 8.

    Eventually, rain almost certainly cost PAK 2 points against SAF, but if for the sake of saying, we don't consider that, still PAK wasn't out of tournament even had rain not washed out the ENG-PAK match.


    Sorry to intrude here, but you always put your arguments in a bullish way which exceeds the limit of arogency, and politeness, for that I was expecting better than this from you. It's a matter of simple home work, which YouTube won't give you readymade.
    MMHS Sahib -the quality and knowledge of your posts have already gained my full respect. Your above post has closed the argument in a much better way then i was able to do - Thank You!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    MMHS Sahib -the quality and knowledge of your posts have already gained my full respect. Your above post has closed the argument in a much better way then i was able to do - Thank You!
    Nothing personal - I was going through the posts because 3 tournaments had 3 unique characteristics. A T20 WC is win is all about impact - short, quick burst, but you have to be on top of your game because in T20 almost every team can beat every team on a day.

    1992 WC was a proper WC, but the format gave slow starters like PAK team enough time to come back - any other format, PAK would have been on PIA flight among first few teams. But, it's a true reflection of a WC, which eventually took the top 2 of 4 sides in final & other 2 in SF. Had it been NZ-SAF final, I don't think anyone would have any issues.

    CT is a bit in between both, because it takes lots of ruthlessness like T20, but at the same time you are always playing an equal opponent, who also has a chance, therefore every match is intense.

    I myself wasn't sure for which one to vote, probably 1992; but I decided to read posts for my arguments - suddenly some disturbing distractions which isn't necesssry here, just like it's foolish to question how BD made SF this time or Kenya in 2003. Those events are done - here discussion should be between 1992, 2009 & 2017. These days, any discussion in PP changes tracks too early, which is extremely disturbing for mental health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    LOL..... you're wrong !

    How can you be ruled out of a semi final spot and still make the semi final?? You said before that if Pakistan had lost against England, they would have been out of the semi finals by the time they played SA? This is also wrong. They were still in with a chance.

    Let me make it simple for you.

    England beat Pakistan - 0 points on merit.

    Pakistan beat South Africa - 2 points on merit.

    Luck balances itself out. Pakistan go through anyway.

    If this hasn't sunk again, let me try another tack.

    The teams BELOW Pakistan in the table.

    India and Sri Lanka were 4 points behind and not in contention. Zimbabwe were 6 points behind.

    Windies and Australia were 1 point behind and had a lower run rate.

    You may then say, the point against England was the difference. YES - it was. BUT- the 2 points against Saffers would have compensated if luck evened out.

    In addition, Windies and Australia were both unaffected by D/L and did not rely on any win or loss based on D/L. Pakistan gained a point against England cos of D/L but LOST 2 points also cos of D/L v SA.

    So - you were saying?? In fact, if you are still saying, then I give up...........I've made my point.
    my bad and I stand corrected about Pak being eliminated before that SA match had they lost to Eng ... but Pakistan being fav in the SAF match is far from true .... as they had failed to chase 216 against India ( At one stage in the chase they were 105/2 in 31 overs and eventually collapsed to 173 all out ) . Moreover Miandad was not playing in that match vs SA. Its like saying had the match vs India been interrupted by rain at about the 20-25 over mark in their chase then Pak would have surely won and we would have never heard the end of it especially as they were a better team those days. It doesn't work that way in cricket.

    http://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricket...world-cup-1992

    http://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricket...world-cup-1992

    Here is an article that explains what would have happened had England won at Adelaide:

    http://www.cricketcountry.com/articl...rnament-202208


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    Quote Originally Posted by aukhan View Post
    1992 was fluke. Lost to every damn team participating in the event.

    2009 we peaked at the right time but the teams we beat were easy and it was T20.

    2017 Defeated two best ODI teams in semi-final and final to win it. Team was ranked 8th and had to qualify for the event. Final win was against India so it becomes a really big thing especially after the horrible performances against them in ICC events.
    This whole fluke mantra of 1992 was based on one match when we lbowled out to England on 74, that wicket and day was terrible to play test, let alone Odi. England were few down, if I am not mistaken chasing 74, it could have been easily 100 odd for England as well if they batted first.

    People forget that we were in driving seat against SA, and lost solely because of rain rule.

    Not to mention we beat favorites AUS, when our back were against wall and out of all places in Perth. And then beat NZ not once but twice in NZ, they were unbeaten team till they run into us. Then beat ENG in final. Fluke sounds like as if ICC gave us World Cup in platter and we were minnows

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    I have seen all three 1992 and CT 2017 both in adulthood, thoroughly enjoyed them!!

    CT 2017 is slightly bigger, because of the manner of wins, hammering top 3 teams, two in knock out. Plus, this is the start of new reign for Pakistani cricket. Phenix is rising from the Ashes!!!

    The way Amir redeem himself is the sports story of the year. Plus no bottom ranked sports team has hammered top tier in such an empathic manner in any sports, we will remember this for generations. :Ashwin:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    my bad and I stand corrected about Pak being eliminated before that SA match had they lost to Eng ... but Pakistan being fav in the SAF match is far from true ....
    Had DLS been applied to that SA game, Pakistan were ahead of the game at rain interval and they also made more than what eventually would have been the target on DLS (161) in 36 overs. The rain was a major deterrant as it inflated the required run rate from 4.8 to 8.3 which was almost unachievable during that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    as they had failed to chase 216 against India ( At one stage in the chase they were 105/2 in 31 overs and eventually collapsed to 173 all out ) . Moreover Miandad was not playing in that match vs SA. Its like saying had the match vs India been interrupted by rain at about the 20-25 over mark in their chase then Pak would have surely won and we would have never heard the end of it especially as they were a better team those days. It doesn't work that way in cricket.
    105/2 was a dismal position to be in after 31 overs chasing 217. That leave Pakistan score at run rate in excess of 6 for the rest of the innings. At no point in this game Pakistan were ahead of India had rain rule (which favours team batting first) being applied. In fact even if you do DLS at any point, Pakistan were still behind the par score. The best position Pakistan were in for DLS was 105/2 after 31 overs and the par score at that point was 111. So there was never a case of Pakistan would have 'surely won'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Had DLS been applied to that SA game, Pakistan were ahead of the game at rain interval and they also made more than what eventually would have been the target on DLS (161) in 36 overs. The rain was a major deterrant as it inflated the required run rate from 4.8 to 8.3 which was almost unachievable during that time.



    105/2 was a dismal position to be in after 31 overs chasing 217. That leave Pakistan score at run rate in excess of 6 for the rest of the innings. At no point in this game Pakistan were ahead of India had rain rule (which favours team batting first) being applied. In fact even if you do DLS at any point, Pakistan were still behind the par score. The best position Pakistan were in for DLS was 105/2 after 31 overs and the par score at that point was 111. So there was never a case of Pakistan would have 'surely won'
    In the match vs India Pak was at 78/2 after 22 overs chasing 216... slightly higher than the score at which rain stopped play in their match vs SAF . Proves my point actually as to why they weren't guaranteed to win that match from there one if the full match had been played out. I agree that the rain rule made it almost impossible.

    the bigger point is the no.of matches affected by this rain rule thereby making a total mockery.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Had DLS been applied to that SA game, Pakistan were ahead of the game at rain interval and they also made more than what eventually would have been the target on DLS (161) in 36 overs. The rain was a major deterrant as it inflated the required run rate from 4.8 to 8.3 which was almost unachievable during that time.



    105/2 was a dismal position to be in after 31 overs chasing 217. That leave Pakistan score at run rate in excess of 6 for the rest of the innings. At no point in this game Pakistan were ahead of India had rain rule (which favours team batting first) being applied. In fact even if you do DLS at any point, Pakistan were still behind the par score. The best position Pakistan were in for DLS was 105/2 after 31 overs and the par score at that point was 111. So there was never a case of Pakistan would have 'surely won'
    Actually, totally different context - IND match was D/N match, played at SCG this was notorious for chasing under lights those days. Gabba match was a Day game - best for chasing at afternoon.

    But, I think the main difference was acclimatization of PAK team - started with a 10 wicket loss, then 74 all-out (in between ZIM match, which was closer than comfort), then IND match - it was a horrible team then & I am sure, instead of IND or ENG, had those matches been played against SRL - PAK would have lost as well. No fixed batting order, key players struggling for fitness, most inform batsman prior to the tournament (Salim Malik) in worst form of his life ..... I think Benaud did say at toss (SCG), that it's looking like a distinctively bat first wicket, therefore don't think PAK was ever favorite to win that IND match, once Imran lost the toss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    In the match vs India Pak was at 78/2 after 22 overs chasing 216... slightly higher than the score at which rain stopped play in their match vs SAF . Proves my point actually as to why they weren't guaranteed to win that match from there one if the full match had been played out.
    They didn't need to win that game even assuming that they had lost to England. Even if SA & Pak both were given one point each (seems fair), that was good enough for Pakistan to qualify
    Last edited by Stallion__; 23rd July 2017 at 07:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    They didn't need to win that game even assuming that they had lost to England. Even if SA & Pak both were given one point each (seems fair), that was good enough for Pakistan to qualify
    Well the South African fans will have a different take on it wont they ?

    Nothing is fair other than a fully completed fair match .... thats why I cringe everytime they play big ICC Events in England. Just not right !


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    So I am going to summarize @Tusker's stance throughout this thread

    From Pakistan would have been out of contention even before SA game if not for rain

    Post - 47

    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    the reason is Pakistan would have been out of contention by the time they met SA had the rain not robbed England of a deserved win.
    to retreating to introducing false equivalence between SA-Pak and Ind-Pak match after being proved wrong and claiming that Pakistan would have surely won India game had it rained without providing a modicum of evidence

    Post - 57

    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Its like saying had the match vs India been interrupted by rain at about the 20-25 over mark in their chase then Pak would have surely won and we would have never heard the end of it especially as they were a better team those days. It doesn't work that way in cricket.
    to claiming that Pakistan weren't favorites in SA game while admitting that they were slightly ahead

    Post - 61

    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    In the match vs India Pak was at 78/2 after 22 overs chasing 216... slightly higher than the score at which rain stopped play in their match vs SAF . Proves my point actually as to why they weren't guaranteed to win that match from there one if the full match had been played out.
    And when pointed out that even sharing points would have seen Pakistan through despite the fact that they were at least slightly ahead

    Post - 64

    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Well the South African fans will have a different take on it wont they ?

    Nothing is fair other than a fully completed fair match .... thats why I cringe everytime they play big ICC Events in England. Just not right !
    Wonder what is his take on India's both CT victories

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Wonder what is his take on India's both CT victories
    Exactly !! The first CT in 2002 we had to share after restricting SL to below par scores twice ... and in 2013 the final was reduced to a T20 Match that reqd an herculean effort to win against all odds. The only saving grace was that it was not decided on DLS.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    having been ruled out of contention for a s/f spot due to the loss to India in the previous match (and Eng in the match before that and WI in the match before that ... ).... so you were saying ...... ?
    92 WC was a round robin tourney. Each team played every other team. All games had to be played to decide the top 4 to qualify.
    Please explain your logic behind, pak vs sa game having to significance if Eng had won the Pak v Eng game?

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    1992, 2009, and then 2017.


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    Off course 1992 wc. Champions trophy has become a pretty meaningless tournament. It has already lost its charm which is why ICC is planning to replace it.

    Even after the loss against arch rival pak in the final, Indian players weren't that disappointed and they were actually making fun with the opposition players which clearly indicates that players didn't take this tournament as seriously as other ICC tournaments. U will never see such images after a wc final loss.

    Don't think ct victory means that much to any team these days. Just saying

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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    I have seen all three 1992 and CT 2017 both in adulthood, thoroughly enjoyed them!!

    CT 2017 is slightly bigger, because of the manner of wins, hammering top 3 teams, two in knock out. Plus, this is the start of new reign for Pakistani cricket. Phenix is rising from the Ashes!!!

    The way Amir redeem himself is the sports story of the year. Plus no bottom ranked sports team has hammered top tier in such an empathic manner in any sports, we will remember this for generations. :Ashwin:
    It's tight. But the guys talking about luck need to look at that Bucknor decision in the final.
    That's worse than sarfaraz drops vs SL coz the opposition did what they needed to do and we gt lucky


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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    It's tight. But the guys talking about luck need to look at that Bucknor decision in the final.
    That's worse than sarfaraz drops vs SL coz the opposition did what they needed to do and we gt lucky
    Why people don't mention luck when other team's win?? - Last WC, Rahat drop kills momentum, that was lucky for AUS?? - Wahab was going through spell of the tournament and we dropped a dolly, who knows what could have happen from there...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    Off course 1992 wc. Champions trophy has become a pretty meaningless tournament. It has already lost its charm which is why ICC is planning to replace it.

    Even after the loss against arch rival pak in the final, Indian players weren't that disappointed and they were actually making fun with the opposition players which clearly indicates that players didn't take this tournament as seriously as other ICC tournaments. U will never see such images after a wc final loss.

    Don't think ct victory means that much to any team these days. Just saying
    Yeah, Since you guys did not win this time...Last time Indians were all gaga about CT and thumping chest, that we can win ICC tournament outside Asia(they still point to CT when somebody ask this question), but now it was a practice tournament


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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Why people don't mention luck when other team's win?? - Last WC, Rahat drop kills momentum, that was lucky for AUS?? - Wahab was going through spell of the tournament and we dropped a dolly, who knows what could have happen from there...
    Absolutely. I hate Rahat for that. Anything could have happened.
    Same with moHali. Disgraceful fielding performance


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  74. #74
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    May 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Why people don't mention luck when other team's win?? - Last WC, Rahat drop kills momentum, that was lucky for AUS?? - Wahab was going through spell of the tournament and we dropped a dolly, who knows what could have happen from there...
    That catch wouldn't have done anything. Australia would have still won easily.

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