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  1. #1
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    PSL 2018 - Retention and transfer window is now open

    Wasn't it starting in July?

    Who would you like to retain/ drop from the team that you support?

    I support Karachi Kings.

    Drop;
    1)Chris Gayle
    2)Mahela Jaywerdene
    3)Ryan Mclaren
    4)Rahat Ali

    Retain;
    1)M.Amir
    2)Sohail Khan
    3)Babar Azam
    4)Keirn Pollard
    5)Ravi Bopara

    Note: You can miss out players if you don't care whether they are dropped or retained!


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  2. #2
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    Plz post squads of last year to make it easy.
    I would keep gayle but drop Rahat Ali.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Plz post squads of last year to make it easy.
    I would keep gayle but drop Rahat Ali.
    Islamabad United

    Misbah-ul-Haq (captain),
    Shane Watson,
    Steven Finn,
    Sharjeel Khan,
    Mohammad Irfan,
    Samuel Badree,
    Mohammad Sami,
    Khalid Latif,
    Brad Haddin,
    Sam Billings,
    Hussain Talat,
    Amad Butt,
    Dwayne Smith,
    Ben Duckkett,
    Shadab Khan,
    Zohaib Khan,
    Saeed Ajmal,
    Imran Khalid,
    Asif Ali,
    Rumman Raees,
    Syed Muzammil Shah

    Karachi Kings

    Kumar Sangakkara (captain),
    Shahid Afridi,
    Shoaib Malik,
    Chris Gayle,
    Babar Azam,
    Ravi Bopara,
    Imad Wasim,
    Mohammad Amir,
    Safiullah Bangash,
    Shazaib Hasan,
    Sohail Khan,
    Kieron Pollard,
    Ryan McLaren,
    Khurram Manzoor,
    Kashif Bhatti,
    Usman Khan,
    Hasan Mohsin,
    Mahela Jayawardene,
    Usama Mir,
    Rahat Ali,
    Amad Alam

    Peshawar Zalmi

    Darren Sammy (captain),
    Sohaib Maqsood,
    Eoin Morgan,
    Wahab Riaz,
    Tilakaratne Dilshan,
    Mohammad Hafeez,
    Chris Jordan,
    Samit Patel,
    Kamran Akmal,
    Iftikhar Ahmed,
    Harris Sohail,
    Hasan Ali,
    Mohammad Asghar,
    Marlon Samuels,
    Andre Fletcher,
    Khushdil Shah,
    Shakib Al Hasan,
    Tamim Iqbal,
    Imran Khan (jr),
    Junaid Khan,
    M. Irfan Khan

    Quetta Gladiators

    Sarfraz Ahmed (captain),
    Umar Gul,
    Asad Shafiq,
    Ahmed Shehzad,
    Mohammad Nawaz,
    Kevin Pietersen,
    Luke Wright,
    Rilee Rossouw,
    Mahmudullah Riyad,
    Anwar Ali,
    Tymal Mills,
    Hassan Khan,
    Nathan McCullum,
    Thisara Perera,
    Bismillah Khan,
    Mir Hamza,
    Zulfiqar Babar,
    Saad Nasim,
    Umar Amin,
    Noor Wali

    Lahore Qalandars

    Brendon McCullum (captain),
    Azhar Ali,
    Aamer Yamin,
    Sohail Tanvir,
    Sunil Narine,
    Umar Akmal,
    Jason Roy,
    Yasir Shah,
    James Franklin,
    Mohammad Rizwan,
    Cameron Delport,
    Fakhar Zaman,
    Bilawal Bhatti,
    Ghulam Mudassar,
    Usman Qadir,
    Grant Elliot,
    Chris Green,
    Saif Badar,
    Mohammad Irfan (Jr.),
    Zafar Gohar


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  4. #4
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    karachi to droullah p gayle,jaywardne.saifullah bangash.rahat ali and kashif bhatti,,take umair masood the u19 wicket keeper and give more chances to that spinner who payed the first 2 t20..

  5. #5
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    Shoaib Malik will most probably transferred to Multan.He will be the captain there.

  6. #6
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    Lahore retain:
    Fakhar
    Mccullum
    Yamin
    U akmal
    Yasir shah
    Narine
    Zafar gohar
    Saif badar
    Ghulam
    Roy

    Drop:
    Irfan
    Delport
    Franklin
    Green
    Bhatti
    Qadir

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Shoaib Malik will most probably transferred to Multan.He will be the captain there.
    Shoaib already gave up the KK captaincy. Don't think he is all that interested in captaincy nowadays.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Shoaib Malik will most probably transferred to Multan.He will be the captain there.
    Seen reports of Hafeez moving from Zalmi to captain Multan.

    Malik has given up on captaincy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    Seen reports of Hafeez moving from Zalmi to captain Multan.

    Malik has given up on captaincy.
    Do people never learn? Hafeez was terrible as captain.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Shoaib Malik will most probably transferred to Multan.He will be the captain there.
    Hafeez will probably captain with clarke as coach!


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Lahore retain:
    Fakhar
    Mccullum
    Yamin
    U akmal
    Yasir shah
    Narine
    Zafar gohar
    Saif badar
    Ghulam
    Roy

    Drop:
    Irfan
    Delport
    Franklin
    Green
    Bhatti
    Qadir
    drop delport, too unfair!


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by super hitter View Post
    drop delport, too unfair!
    Lol cant remember any outstanding performance. On a side note i hope evin lewis, buttler, warner, maxwell and finch are available. Will improve the league big time

  13. #13
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    Evin Lewis would be a great signing for any of the PSL teams.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Do people never learn? Hafeez was terrible as captain.
    No he wasn't.

    Hafeez is one of the best captains/tacticians in all of Pakistan even today. That's probably his best asset actually - his captaincy.

    I know it's not a good move keeping in mind the future, but Hafeez as captain would be a good move by Multan.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    No he wasn't.

    Hafeez is one of the best captains/tacticians in all of Pakistan even today. That's probably his best asset actually - his captaincy.

    I know it's not a good move keeping in mind the future, but Hafeez as captain would be a good move by Multan.
    I agree. Hafeez is a good captain. His record was 18W, 11L. That's a win percentage of 62%. Very admirable. I just hope captaincy doesn't translate into him pushing himself as a #3 when he's a #5 or #6.

  16. #16
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    Miller,Buttler,Boult,Lewis,Bravo,Munro,Lynn,Hales, Ali,Brathwaite

    These guys should hopefully be added to the teams

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by super hitter View Post
    Wasn't it starting in July?

    Who would you like to retain/ drop from the team that you support?

    I support Karachi Kings.

    Drop;
    1)Chris Gayle
    2)Mahela Jaywerdene
    3)Ryan Mclaren
    4)Rahat Ali

    Retain;
    1)M.Amir
    2)Sohail Khan
    3)Babar Azam
    4)Keirn Pollard
    5)Ravi Bopara

    Note: You can miss out players if you don't care whether they are dropped or retained!
    I think Usama Mir should also be retained

  18. #18
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    Is the rule like 10 players will be retained? Also, need to know regulations regarding foreign players.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy1999 View Post
    Miller,Buttler,Boult,Lewis,Bravo,Munro,Lynn,Hales, Ali,Brathwaite

    These guys should hopefully be added to the teams
    Doesn't it clash with the Australia, New Zealand and England t20 tri series?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    No he wasn't.

    Hafeez is one of the best captains/tacticians in all of Pakistan even today. That's probably his best asset actually - his captaincy.

    I know it's not a good move keeping in mind the future, but Hafeez as captain would be a good move by Multan.
    Quote Originally Posted by idrizzy View Post
    I agree. Hafeez is a good captain. His record was 18W, 11L. That's a win percentage of 62%. Very admirable. I just hope captaincy doesn't translate into him pushing himself as a #3 when he's a #5 or #6.
    Captaincy is not judged on numbers alone. Hafeez failed as captain when it actually mattered- ie in two T20 WCs. Indeed, the group stage exit in 2014 was the first time Pakistan failed to reach the semi-finals.

    Plus he had terrible man-management skills as borne out by his unilateral approach to the captaincy. Look no further than his treatment of Razzaq- Hafeez refused to pick Razzaq for most of the 2012 WC, and in the only game Razzaq played he wasn't even given a chance to bowl.

    That's even before I mention the concerns you have touched on:

    If you accept it is not a good move for the future, why are you in favour of giving him the captaincy? It would be a backwards step, which would prevent new talent developing. Either give the captaincy to someone who has experience in nurturing young talent (irrespective of nationality) and/or give it to a potential future captain of PCT so they can gain some vital captaincy experience.

    2. He insists on batting in the top 3, which will mean denying young players the opportunities they deserve. There's already enough of that going on in the domestic circuit. The PSL is supposed to be a platform for youngsters to shine on the big stage. However, Hafeez would view that as a threat to his own position in PCT and so as captain he would stifle youth development.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Is the rule like 10 players will be retained? Also, need to know regulations regarding foreign players.
    I don't know whether this is a compulsion or not but teams can retain upto 10 players from the the previous edition.2 players each from platinum,diamond and gold category,3 players from silver and 1 from emerging category.Multan will have a pre-draft in which they'll pick 10 players in the above mentioned pattern as well.

    As far as foreign players are concerned in previous year they had maximum of 5 players and in supplementary players can could've had maximum of 2 foreign players.This year they might have 20-24 players per side so we can't say anything about the foreign recruits.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Lahore retain:
    Fakhar
    Mccullum
    Yamin
    U akmal
    Yasir shah
    Narine
    Zafar gohar
    Saif badar
    Ghulam
    Roy

    Drop:
    Irfan
    Delport
    Franklin
    Green
    Bhatti
    Qadir
    Only two players from Platanium, Diamond and GOld can be retained. So you would have to drop one of Akmal, Baz and Narine.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyObnoxious View Post
    Only two players from Platanium, Diamond and GOld can be retained. So you would have to drop one of Akmal, Baz and Narine.
    Ohh. What was the procedure last year?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    No he wasn't.

    Hafeez is one of the best captains/tacticians in all of Pakistan even today. That's probably his best asset actually - his captaincy.

    I know it's not a good move keeping in mind the future, but Hafeez as captain would be a good move by Multan.
    I agree he was tactically a decent captain. People may complain they wanted a better leader, and that is probably true. But from what I saw he was far more proactive in LOI captaincy than Misbah or Afridi (though Misbah did have his moments with captaincy in LOI too). It's funny the only captains from Pakistan with an attacking mindset I've seen in the last decade or so (Inzi was defensive too) have been YK, Hafeez and Sarfraz. I've been more impressed by Sarfraz than the other two though, better tactically and better man management skills.

    I think it was a little foolish that Lahore didn't pick him as captain and went with Azhar Ali. Was a big mistake.

    For the PSL really they should go with captains that ideally have captaincy experience and well known names. This creates hype for the tournament too. Malik, Misbah, Afridi, Hafeez, Sarfraz should all be captains ideally.

  25. #25
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    Can anyone post in DETAIL what is the procedure to retain 10 players as announced by psl management few days back

  26. #26
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    The window will probably open by 15th f I'm not wrong, the first major transfer will be Shahid Afridi to Karachi kings.

    Peshawar may release Hafeez as he is expected to captain Multan


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    Ohh. What was the procedure last year?
    This may give a better idea though.

    Last edited by Abdullah719; 12th July 2017 at 16:10.

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    I think it was a little foolish that Lahore didn't pick him as captain and went with Azhar Ali. Was a big mistake.
    The Lahore Qalandar management guys said that Paddy Upton didn't think Hafeez was good enough to be picked in the first two categories.

  29. #29
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    May be I am thinking too much, but how are they going to solve this emerging player issue? To me emerging player shouldn't be retained or in other word, one player can't be selected as "emerging" for 2 years. For example, now IU will retain Shadab as emerging, but effectively, he is a Platinum category player, because he makes PAK team in both LO format.

    I never liked this "emerging" quota, rather I would have loved to see 4 players U23 in playing XI & at least 1 U19. That's based on age, hence the list will change every year. Now, this emerging quota is giving excellent opportunity of nepotism in both ends - MoHa & Maliks & Misbahs & Afridis can keep playing for years & their team will keep carrying couple from Hasan, Shadab, Talat, Asghar under emerging quota - result, hardly any new player getting chance after couple of season. Other extreme of this quota is that Arshal Sheikh might get picked as "emerging" & paid $25K (?) every year, till he turns 38.........

    Emerging quota can only work, if a player can be listed ONLY once as as emerging - next year, either he has to make it in PDGS category (in existing team or some other team) or he leaves PSL.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Captaincy is not judged on numbers alone. Hafeez failed as captain when it actually mattered- ie in two T20 WCs. Indeed, the group stage exit in 2014 was the first time Pakistan failed to reach the semi-finals.

    Plus he had terrible man-management skills as borne out by his unilateral approach to the captaincy. Look no further than his treatment of Razzaq- Hafeez refused to pick Razzaq for most of the 2012 WC, and in the only game Razzaq played he wasn't even given a chance to bowl.

    That's even before I mention the concerns you have touched on:

    If you accept it is not a good move for the future, why are you in favour of giving him the captaincy? It would be a backwards step, which would prevent new talent developing. Either give the captaincy to someone who has experience in nurturing young talent (irrespective of nationality) and/or give it to a potential future captain of PCT so they can gain some vital captaincy experience.

    2. He insists on batting in the top 3, which will mean denying young players the opportunities they deserve. There's already enough of that going on in the domestic circuit. The PSL is supposed to be a platform for youngsters to shine on the big stage. However, Hafeez would view that as a threat to his own position in PCT and so as captain he would stifle youth development.
    I agree with most of your post, however PSL is still a competitive T20 league. Even if you don't agree he was the best captain, it doesn't mean you should give the burden to a 22-29 year old who is trying to break into the team and his performance might be underwhelming because of it. I still think experience matters, and Hafeez was a good captain.

    But like you said, when it mattered, he wasn't a good captain. You touched on all the points that I'd agree on with poor man management (including himself) and really poor team selection. It's crazy that he won a lot of games considering this, however. So in THAT sense, I still think he's a good captain. He just overhypes himself too much and thinks he's the big boss now he's captain.

    One thing that I respect is that he relinquished captaincy after that T20 WC failure - something which most Pakistani captains wouldn't have done.
    Last edited by idrizzy; 14th July 2017 at 17:17.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    May be I am thinking too much, but how are they going to solve this emerging player issue? To me emerging player shouldn't be retained or in other word, one player can't be selected as "emerging" for 2 years. For example, now IU will retain Shadab as emerging, but effectively, he is a Platinum category player, because he makes PAK team in both LO format.

    I never liked this "emerging" quota, rather I would have loved to see 4 players U23 in playing XI & at least 1 U19. That's based on age, hence the list will change every year. Now, this emerging quota is giving excellent opportunity of nepotism in both ends - MoHa & Maliks & Misbahs & Afridis can keep playing for years & their team will keep carrying couple from Hasan, Shadab, Talat, Asghar under emerging quota - result, hardly any new player getting chance after couple of season. Other extreme of this quota is that Arshal Sheikh might get picked as "emerging" & paid $25K (?) every year, till he turns 38.........

    Emerging quota can only work, if a player can be listed ONLY once as as emerging - next year, either he has to make it in PDGS category (in existing team or some other team) or he leaves PSL.
    Brother, after the first PSL the rules were changed so the emerging player had to be under 23 at the start of the tournament. This addresses most of the problems you have mentioned.

    As for Shadab, given his stock will have gone up post-CT, I doubt he will stay as an emerging player (given players in that category receive less money- $10,000 from memory).

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    May be I am thinking too much, but how are they going to solve this emerging player issue? To me emerging player shouldn't be retained or in other word, one player can't be selected as "emerging" for 2 years. For example, now IU will retain Shadab as emerging, but effectively, he is a Platinum category player, because he makes PAK team in both LO format.

    I never liked this "emerging" quota, rather I would have loved to see 4 players U23 in playing XI & at least 1 U19. That's based on age, hence the list will change every year. Now, this emerging quota is giving excellent opportunity of nepotism in both ends - MoHa & Maliks & Misbahs & Afridis can keep playing for years & their team will keep carrying couple from Hasan, Shadab, Talat, Asghar under emerging quota - result, hardly any new player getting chance after couple of season. Other extreme of this quota is that Arshal Sheikh might get picked as "emerging" & paid $25K (?) every year, till he turns 38.........

    Emerging quota can only work, if a player can be listed ONLY once as as emerging - next year, either he has to make it in PDGS category (in existing team or some other team) or he leaves PSL.
    Also given they have introduced an age limit for the emerging player category, it would be a very bad idea if a player could only be listed as "emerging" once. It would be very counter-productive; it would develop a "fear" culture as it would put undue amounts of pressure on youngsters which would lead to a lot of wasted talent.

  33. #33
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Brother, after the first PSL the rules were changed so the emerging player had to be under 23 at the start of the tournament. This addresses most of the problems you have mentioned.

    As for Shadab, given his stock will have gone up post-CT, I doubt he will stay as an emerging player (given players in that category receive less money- $10,000 from memory).
    True for Shadab & Hasan - but what for Asghar? Stay as emerging at $10K, so that MoHa/KAkmal can get $100K, or leave?

    I am not sure, if it's open for both party or not - that's a player can be retained in one category, but if he gets a better deal elsewhere, he is free to move. Otherwise, there can be a case of blocking players (not only from emerging quota). Ultimately, all T20 franchise has to follow, either Football model (transfer fee), or North American model, where players are contracted for years (even 1 year) & after that, he is a free agent. For multiple years' contract, the contract is bought by the new team (in case of changing team) with players contract carried forward & the Clubs settle between them (normally, in player exchange or draft pick).

  34. #34
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Also given they have introduced an age limit for the emerging player category, it would be a very bad idea if a player could only be listed as "emerging" once. It would be very counter-productive; it would develop a "fear" culture as it would put undue amounts of pressure on youngsters which would lead to a lot of wasted talent.
    That's true, if it's considered that, PAK (or any cricket country), won't produce new talented kids next year - once emerging, for next 2/3 years emerging & he keeps new kids out. Business usual every year, 12 kids will be picked as emerging - may be 1/2 will end up as Shadab or Hasan Ali, 2/3 will end up as Asghar, Talat or Hasan Khan (that's good enough to get a Silver contract some where), & rest will leave - their spot will be taken by 12 new kids, with some kids those have missed last years draft, but still eligible under emerging quota. In NBA draft, every player has 2 chances - if he doesn't make it in 1st year, he can list himself for 2nd year.

    In Club football, almost every club carry over 100 kids between age of 7 to 18 - they give them training facilities, token money, schooling facilities and may be if you are Sterling or Pogba or Rooney - a job at club for your parents, which should pay them in 6 digits/year. Over 90% of those kids, leave football after turning 18, few signs their 1st pro contract (at mother Club or elsewhere) - roughly at $10K/week. Every year, there will be few kids like Sterling, Martial or Asencio or Verati - who'll sign their next contract after 1st year (that's protection for mother club), for something like 170K/week ... figures in British pound or EURO.

    Quota or protection never helps - it's open market economy; the better ones will find their way, as long as the system is fair - rest were not good enough. PAK team has come down this level over last decade because of a similar protection for few "experienced" assets, in the name of lack of talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    True for Shadab & Hasan - but what for Asghar? Stay as emerging at $10K, so that MoHa/KAkmal can get $100K, or leave?

    I am not sure, if it's open for both party or not - that's a player can be retained in one category, but if he gets a better deal elsewhere, he is free to move. Otherwise, there can be a case of blocking players (not only from emerging quota). Ultimately, all T20 franchise has to follow, either Football model (transfer fee), or North American model, where players are contracted for years (even 1 year) & after that, he is a free agent. For multiple years' contract, the contract is bought by the new team (in case of changing team) with players contract carried forward & the Clubs settle between them (normally, in player exchange or draft pick).
    You're not seriously suggesting Asghar is worth $100K atm?

    In any case, players can make a decision according to their priorities- if they think long term and want experience and international exposure, they won't mind opting for a smaller sum (which is still a lot of many for many of them). If successful, they can then use that platform for bigger and better things (including more money!) If their priority is more short term and based on making a quick buck, then they can place themselves in the domestic category but in doing so they will increase their risk of not getting selected by a franchise, or even if they are picked they may not end up playing. Most u-23 who aspires to play for their country will be sensible enough to select the first option.

    Don't see why the t20 franchises have to change their models- everyone seems generally happy with the current set-up, which is fairly typical of most/all t20 leagues around the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    You're not seriously suggesting Asghar is worth $100K atm?

    In any case, players can make a decision according to their priorities- if they think long term and want experience and international exposure, they won't mind opting for a smaller sum (which is still a lot of many for many of them). If successful, they can then use that platform for bigger and better things (including more money!) If their priority is more short term and based on making a quick buck, then they can place themselves in the domestic category but in doing so they will increase their risk of not getting selected by a franchise, or even if they are picked they may not end up playing. Most u-23 who aspires to play for their country will be sensible enough to select the first option.

    Don't see why the t20 franchises have to change their models- everyone seems generally happy with the current set-up, which is fairly typical of most/all t20 leagues around the world.
    First 2 para, you'll understand yourself, sometimes later, I don't think I need to explain the difference between "take a $10K deal, or don't play" or "our offer is $10K for you, but you are free to move, if you get a better deal". Someone Bosmann, changed a similar thing in Soccer (but that has made this football world crazy now )

    T20 franchise has no model - basically, it's initial stage of the business, therefore the rules & regulations are still at preliminary stage. What PCB has done, you can check in 3 months old post - I wrote exactly same solution for Multan - existing franchise will release some players & Multan will be allowed to pick first 10-12 picks; then it goes to proper seeded bidding. If Multan is to wait for 5 other picks, before their next turn, by 3rd or 4th round, they'll have to offer Shaan Masood a Diamond contract.

    English FA Cup started in 1870s, MLB in 1860s & English professional cricket in 1850s, NHL probably in 1890s - over 100+ years, pro team sports has shaped their system, rules & regulations; T20 leagues are just about 10 years old - that too in a Cricket world, where all other PL & SL won't match one franchise of IPL. Let ECB start their City based T20 Franchise league, gradually there will be many such things coming in contract, transfer or exclusivity which are not typical now.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    That's true, if it's considered that, PAK (or any cricket country), won't produce new talented kids next year - once emerging, for next 2/3 years emerging & he keeps new kids out. Business usual every year, 12 kids will be picked as emerging - may be 1/2 will end up as Shadab or Hasan Ali, 2/3 will end up as Asghar, Talat or Hasan Khan (that's good enough to get a Silver contract some where), & rest will leave - their spot will be taken by 12 new kids, with some kids those have missed last years draft, but still eligible under emerging quota. In NBA draft, every player has 2 chances - if he doesn't make it in 1st year, he can list himself for 2nd year.

    In Club football, almost every club carry over 100 kids between age of 7 to 18 - they give them training facilities, token money, schooling facilities and may be if you are Sterling or Pogba or Rooney - a job at club for your parents, which should pay them in 6 digits/year. Over 90% of those kids, leave football after turning 18, few signs their 1st pro contract (at mother Club or elsewhere) - roughly at $10K/week. Every year, there will be few kids like Sterling, Martial or Asencio or Verati - who'll sign their next contract after 1st year (that's protection for mother club), for something like 170K/week ... figures in British pound or EURO.

    Quota or protection never helps - it's open market economy; the better ones will find their way, as long as the system is fair - rest were not good enough. PAK team has come down this level over last decade because of a similar protection for few "experienced" assets, in the name of lack of talent.
    That doesn't make any sense. You are ignoring the fact that since the first PSL, they introduced an age limit to specifically ensure young players are given opportunities. You also draw a puzzling (and false) analogy with how offering emerging players repeat contracts is akin to how PCT has protected "experienced" players such as Hafeez on the basis of lack of talent. But how does allowing the franchises to (re-)sign whatever emerging player they want as long as the player meets the requirements (ie is under 23) lead to a lack of talent? I think the franchises will be better at identifying talent, rather than the arbitrary cap you have proposed. We have already seen franchises have changed/kept emerging players based on their assessment so your concerns are unfounded.

    You have mentioned it is a free market, yet you are the one suggesting that a player cannot be in the emerging category for more than one year. So what you are actually suggesting is an artificial constraint on the market. So how is that a free market?

    Your point about club football adds very little. None of these football clubs will discard a young player after one year based on some arbitrary cap that a player can only be considered "emerging" for one season. Those in the know are aware that it takes time for talent to develop. It's worth remembering 23 is still young for a professional sportsman.

    Giving very young players the opportunity to develop under professional coaching whilst being surrounded by international stars and also the chance to earn some money will lead to more youngsters entering cricket as a profession. In short, there is already enough talent being wasted in Pakistan- your suggestion would only exacerbate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    That doesn't make any sense. You are ignoring the fact that since the first PSL, they introduced an age limit to specifically ensure young players are given opportunities. You also draw a puzzling (and false) analogy with how offering emerging players repeat contracts is akin to how PCT has protected "experienced" players such as Hafeez on the basis of lack of talent. But how does allowing the franchises to (re-)sign whatever emerging player they want as long as the player meets the requirements (ie is under 23) lead to a lack of talent? I think the franchises will be better at identifying talent, rather than the arbitrary cap you have proposed. We have already seen franchises have changed/kept emerging players based on their assessment so your concerns are unfounded.

    You have mentioned it is a free market, yet you are the one suggesting that a player cannot be in the emerging category for more than one year. So what you are actually suggesting is an artificial constraint on the market. So how is that a free market?

    Your point about club football adds very little. None of these football clubs will discard a young player after one year based on some arbitrary cap that a player can only be considered "emerging" for one season. Those in the know are aware that it takes time for talent to develop. It's worth remembering 23 is still young for a professional sportsman.

    Giving very young players the opportunity to develop under professional coaching whilst being surrounded by international stars and also the chance to earn some money will lead to more youngsters entering cricket as a profession. In short, there is already enough talent being wasted in Pakistan- your suggestion would only exacerbate that.
    You misinterpreted my logic - I am not saying, don't give repeat contract to emerging players. Rather, I am saying don't block 1/2 emerging quota by allowing teams to retain same player (at lower cost) & block few spots that are left for new kids. 23 years cap at least covers that someone like Arshal Sheihk won't get life long Emerging contract, but it doesn't open the spot for a 20 years old kid, who'll be 21 next year & still might not get his chance, because clubs have decided to retain all of their 22-23 years old players.

    The logic is simple - 2 new faces every year in emerging quota. Those who are talented enough, will get into some team as a pro or leave (if they are not good enough). That emerging quota is to promote new players, not to retain players who are potential - but, 23 years cap allows several players to try their chance to get into PSL at least 3/4 times, if they don't make it at 1st or 2nd try. There is a reason that, hardly any country plays same player for 2 U20 WCs, though many of the players are still eligible.

    In football, there is no such "emerging" quota - across Europe, players can only sign their professional contract at 18 - those who are good, they get a deal at 18 (which is several times more than their retainer ship); whose who are not good enough, either leave the club or can still stick around till 21 to improve, at an annual retainer ship, which is probably less than a week's wage of some of their "batch mates".

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    You misinterpreted my logic - I am not saying, don't give repeat contract to emerging players. Rather, I am saying don't block 1/2 emerging quota by allowing teams to retain same player (at lower cost) & block few spots that are left for new kids. 23 years cap at least covers that someone like Arshal Sheihk won't get life long Emerging contract, but it doesn't open the spot for a 20 years old kid, who'll be 21 next year & still might not get his chance, because clubs have decided to retain all of their 22-23 years old players.

    The logic is simple - 2 new faces every year in emerging quota. Those who are talented enough, will get into some team as a pro or leave (if they are not good enough). That emerging quota is to promote new players, not to retain players who are potential - but, 23 years cap allows several players to try their chance to get into PSL at least 3/4 times, if they don't make it at 1st or 2nd try. There is a reason that, hardly any country plays same player for 2 U20 WCs, though many of the players are still eligible.

    In football, there is no such "emerging" quota - across Europe, players can only sign their professional contract at 18 - those who are good, they get a deal at 18 (which is several times more than their retainer ship); whose who are not good enough, either leave the club or can still stick around till 21 to improve, at an annual retainer ship, which is probably less than a week's wage of some of their "batch mates".
    Which part did I misunderstand?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    May be I am thinking too much, but how are they going to solve this emerging player issue? To me emerging player shouldn't be retained or in other word, one player can't be selected as "emerging" for 2 years. For example, now IU will retain Shadab as emerging, but effectively, he is a Platinum category player, because he makes PAK team in both LO format.

    I never liked this "emerging" quota, rather I would have loved to see 4 players U23 in playing XI & at least 1 U19. That's based on age, hence the list will change every year. Now, this emerging quota is giving excellent opportunity of nepotism in both ends - MoHa & Maliks & Misbahs & Afridis can keep playing for years & their team will keep carrying couple from Hasan, Shadab, Talat, Asghar under emerging quota - result, hardly any new player getting chance after couple of season. Other extreme of this quota is that Arshal Sheikh might get picked as "emerging" & paid $25K (?) every year, till he turns 38.........

    Emerging quota can only work, if a player can be listed ONLY once as as emerging - next year, either he has to make it in PDGS category (in existing team or some other team) or he leaves PSL.
    Seems pretty damning if you ask me.

  40. #40
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    These guys should be in 1 team by a miracle transfer

    Sharjeel
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Haris
    Sarfraz
    Shadab
    Fahim
    Amir
    Hasan
    Raza
    Ehtisham

    Overseas players on bench


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  41. #41
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Which part did I misunderstand?



    Seems pretty damning if you ask me.
    First thing you misunderstood is that, you thought, this Bangali is trying to give some Gayaan. Get over that - if little gayaan I might have, I at least won't waste it on bones.

    2nd thing is, you have no idea of the purpose of "Emerging Quota" - it's NOT for developing players. No, 8 weeks PSL doesn't produce any talented player, neither develop any cricketer - no matter how talented he is. The only purpose of "Emerging Quota" is to give "exposure" of "potential" young player - who are not identified by PSL (better not be identified), rather giving an "exposure" to few talented players who had been performing at U13, U16, School & U19 level - in sports term, we call it "Fast Tracking". Here key word is exposure & fast track - it'll be foolish to think that Shadab Khan was plucked from streets by some genius & from one PSL he has become a star, now couple of more years in 8 weeks PSL will make him Richie Benaud.

    That 23 years Cap is good for one purpose - it blocks players with influential contacts keeping their place in a squad. But, unless there is cap of appearance count (that's how many years one can be picked as Emerging - ideally should be once) - this will simply increase the average age of future emerging player.

    I am trying for the last time, if you can see it - hypothetically, a club has 2 players aged, 20 & 21 as emerging this year. Both decent talent & they are retained for next year at 21 & 22 - slight improvement & they are retained for one more year, because that 23 years cap allows Clubs to do so. See it as a hypothetical chain effect - the kid, missing first time at 19, will miss again at 20, 21 & 22, until the senior of the 2 kids leaves at 23. If you replicate it into all 6 franchise, basically, it's shutting down anyone under 21-22, unless he is an exceptional talent. But, then the purpose of this "emerging quota" fails - because, an exceptional talent, by 20-21, should be identified regardless of PSL or not - if not, then God bless PAK Cricket.

    That's why, without arguing for the sake of it, read my initial post - 1 or 2 new faces every year under "emerging quota" & at least 4 players U23 in playing XI. Ideally, some of this years' "Emerging" player should still make the team in U23 spots IF THEY ARE GOOD/POTENTIAL ENOUGH, but at a higher payment - at least Silver Category, while every year that "emerging" door is open for next prodigy. And, the guys who will be in trouble in this system are the MoHas & Misbahs & Maliks & Afridis - who are now competing for 7 spots, instead of 10 at the tender age of 40-45, that too at a premium price, in an young people's game.

    In terms of average age, PAK National team is by far the oldest in world, FC teams are by far oldest & PSL franchise are by far the oldest as well - that too considering official age, and this'll only go south, if this emerging cap is set at 23 & then raised to 24, 25 ..... to accommodate players. With one new face every year AT LEAST & 4 in total under 23 in playing XI, will ensure that Franchise won't pay Diamond & Platinum to 40+ Buzurgs, who has very good contacts & "experience". AND it'll gradually pull down the age frequency to acceptable level, which should be polarized at around 25. Here key word is "frequency", not average - 44 years old Misbah, 40 years old Mohammand + 19 years old Shadab & 20 years old Talat makes the average 31, which isn't a disaster - but the average dispersion of 2 batch is 23 years in a game,where career at top level is around 12 years.

    Hope it makes sense, otherwise leave it here. I can't try better.

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    I'm most interested to see who the captains will be. I would have thought Hafeez would be captaining Lahore than Multan, but seems like the reverse is true, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up moving and captaining, there's a slot freed up, and I don't think Mccullum will keep captaincy either after LQs performance.

    Would lead to thinking that Malik would go to Lahore. Lahore will end up with no franchise players with no certain captain, I wouldn't be surprised if they approached Malik to ask him to captain the side. I'd like to see Malik captain, he's been one of the best domestic captains we have had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyObnoxious View Post
    The Lahore Qalandar management guys said that Paddy Upton didn't think Hafeez was good enough to be picked in the first two categories.
    That wasn't smart by them really. Regardless of whether he was a good enough player, you need a captain and pretty much all teams cemented their captain after first or second pick. There was limited choice available.

    What ended up happening was they had to carry Azhar Ali in the team in order to have a captain. Which was disastrous, given Azhar wasn't even a good captain. Very poor planning. They got Gayle thinking he'd win the tournament for them in PSL and didn't think carefully into captaincy. Funny thing they transferred Gayle off for Sohail Tanvir next PSL anyway .

    I feel like Lahore was going to pick Hafeez as captain, they just thought he wouldn't be snatched up so could pick him later.They wanted to grab star players like Gayle, umar akmal etc. first. Of course it backfired.

    Picking guys like Misbah, Sarfraz, Malik (the latter didn't do well for some reason, but feel that's a bit unlucky on paper was a good choice) were the best early picks to build a team around. Lahore should have tried for one of those ideally.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    First thing you misunderstood is that, you thought, this Bangali is trying to give some Gayaan. Get over that - if little gayaan I might have, I at least won't waste it on bones.
    You have now resorted to trying to deflect attention away from your own backtracking, but everyone can see your post and come to their own conclusion.

    There are a number of strawmen/misrepresentations in your post. My responses are in bold:

    "You wrote: You have no idea of the purpose of "Emerging Quota" - it's NOT for developing players. No, 8 weeks PSL doesn't produce any talented player, neither develop any cricketer - no matter how talented he is. The only purpose of "Emerging Quota" is to give "exposure" of "potential" young player. Here key word is exposure & fast track - it'll be foolish to think that Shadab Khan was plucked from streets by some genius & from one PSL he has become a star, now couple of more years in 8 weeks PSL will make him Richie Benaud."

    1. Re-read my earlier post. I already wrote that any sensible young player will use the opportunity to gain experience and international exposure. I'm not sure where Richie Benaud comes into it. In any case you are very much mistaken if you think there can only be one stated purpose to the PSL. You take an extreme position by suggesting that players do not develop in any way by playing the PSL- the words of the players and the staff would suggest you are wrong (see for eg. Fakhar Zaman and Brendon McCullum, Shadab and Dean Jones/Wasim, Rumman Raees and Wasim etc).


    You wrote: "That 23 years Cap is good for one purpose - it blocks players with influential contacts keeping their place in a squad. But, unless there is cap of appearance count (that's how many years one can be picked as Emerging - ideally should be once) - this will simply increase the average age of future emerging player."

    2. I am happy to see you concede the cap removes the risk of TTFs being categorised as "emerging" players. However, you then wrote "But, unless there is cap of appearance count (that's how many years one can be picked as Emerging - ideally should be once." Once again, you are saying a player can only be categorised as "emerging" for one year. After that, they either have to get a higher contract (even if their priority was to gain experience rather than earning more money) or they leave the PSL. In other words, you are encouraging talent to be wasted simply because you want an arbitrary cap. Yet when I pointed this out as a problem, you backtracked and wrote "I am not saying, don't give repeat contract to emerging players." Posters can read for themselves and decide.


    You wrote: "hypothetically, a club has 2 players aged, 20 & 21 as emerging this year. Both decent talent & they are retained for next year at 21 & 22 - slight improvement & they are retained for one more year, because that 23 years cap allows Clubs to do so. See it as a hypothetical chain effect - the kid, missing first time at 19, will miss again at 20, 21 & 22, until the senior of the 2 kids leaves at 23. If you replicate it into all 6 franchise, basically, it's shutting down anyone under 21-22, unless he is an exceptional talent. But, then the purpose of this "emerging quota" fails - because, an exceptional talent, by 20-21, should be identified regardless of PSL or not - if not, then God bless PAK Cricket."

    3. You are ignoring the fact that teams between PSL1 and PSL2 did change the emerging players they weren't happy with/didn't fit their squad and kept the ones that did- feel free to go and check. The franchises are not resting on their laurels when it comes to emerging players. Your whole scenario rests on the situation that franchises are twiddling their thumbs- the evidence suggests otherwise. Your argument falls down because the emerging player category is not a "quota" (as you put it) on specific players- rather it is about giving a class of players (ie those who are u-23) opportunities to perform. Who those players are depends on who the franchises decide to pick. Indeed, given you were advocating for a free market, I am quite surprised to see you argue for an arbitrary cap on appearances. I ask again: you have mentioned it should be a free market, yet you are the one advocating in favour of an artificial constraint on the market. So how is that a free market? To put it more simply, why should the franchises be prevented from (re-)signing an u-23 on an EP contract simply because he has already been given one EP contract in the past?


    "That's why, without arguing for the sake of it, read my initial post - 1 or 2 new faces every year under "emerging quota" & at least 4 players U23 in playing XI. Ideally, some of this years' "Emerging" player should still make the team in U23 spots IF THEY ARE GOOD/POTENTIAL ENOUGH, but at a higher payment - at least Silver Category, while every year that "emerging" door is open for next prodigy. And, the guys who will be in trouble in this system are the MoHas & Misbahs & Maliks & Afridis - who are now competing for 7 spots, instead of 10 at the tender age of 40-45, that too at a premium price, in an young people's game."

    4. We share some common ground here. However, it's worth remembering you wrote this passage before you even knew of the u23 cap on emerging players. The easier solution to remove/make it more difficult for TTFs (such as Hafeez) from taking the place of a younger playeris to increase the number of "emerging" players you have to play, rather than your suggested proposal. Here's why. On my proposal, it's a win-win for "emerging" players- younger players are being granted more opportunities whilst also reducing the opportunities for TTFs (which we both agree is a good thing). However, your method relies on arbitrarily throwing out young players from the PSL in order to make space for other young players. As I have already said, this will discourage youngsters and re-introduce the "fear" culture. Your suggestion also fails to deal with the following:

    i) an emerging player is released from squad X simply because he did not fit their requirements. But he is perfect for squad Y. However, they are prevented from signing him on an EP contract due to your arbitrary rule.

    ii) Team X like player 1 and are happy with his performances. However, there is no room for him in the squad as all their silver position players are better than him (older but more experienced). Player 1 is therefore released and lost to the system.
    Last edited by mak36; 12th July 2017 at 23:22.

  45. #45
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    You have now resorted to trying to deflect attention away from your own backtracking, but everyone can see your post and come to their own conclusion.

    There are a number of strawmen/misrepresentations in your post. My responses are in bold:

    "You wrote: You have no idea of the purpose of "Emerging Quota" - it's NOT for developing players. No, 8 weeks PSL doesn't produce any talented player, neither develop any cricketer - no matter how talented he is. The only purpose of "Emerging Quota" is to give "exposure" of "potential" young player. Here key word is exposure & fast track - it'll be foolish to think that Shadab Khan was plucked from streets by some genius & from one PSL he has become a star, now couple of more years in 8 weeks PSL will make him Richie Benaud."

    1. Re-read my earlier post. I already wrote that any sensible young player will use the opportunity to gain experience and international exposure. I'm not sure where Richie Benaud comes into it. In any case you are very much mistaken if you think there can only be one stated purpose to the PSL. You take an extreme position by suggesting that players do not develop in any way by playing the PSL- the words of the players and the staff would suggest you are wrong (see for eg. Fakhar Zaman and Brendon McCullum, Shadab and Dean Jones/Wasim, Rumman Raees and Wasim etc).


    You wrote: "That 23 years Cap is good for one purpose - it blocks players with influential contacts keeping their place in a squad. But, unless there is cap of appearance count (that's how many years one can be picked as Emerging - ideally should be once) - this will simply increase the average age of future emerging player."

    2. I am happy to see you concede the cap removes the risk of TTFs being categorised as "emerging" players. However, you then wrote "But, unless there is cap of appearance count (that's how many years one can be picked as Emerging - ideally should be once." Once again, you are saying a player can only be categorised as "emerging" for one year. After that, they either have to get a higher contract (even if their priority was to gain experience rather than earning more money) or they leave the PSL. In other words, you are encouraging talent to be wasted simply because you want an arbitrary cap. Yet when I pointed this out as a problem, you backtracked and wrote "I am not saying, don't give repeat contract to emerging players." Posters can read for themselves and decide.


    You wrote: "hypothetically, a club has 2 players aged, 20 & 21 as emerging this year. Both decent talent & they are retained for next year at 21 & 22 - slight improvement & they are retained for one more year, because that 23 years cap allows Clubs to do so. See it as a hypothetical chain effect - the kid, missing first time at 19, will miss again at 20, 21 & 22, until the senior of the 2 kids leaves at 23. If you replicate it into all 6 franchise, basically, it's shutting down anyone under 21-22, unless he is an exceptional talent. But, then the purpose of this "emerging quota" fails - because, an exceptional talent, by 20-21, should be identified regardless of PSL or not - if not, then God bless PAK Cricket."

    3. You are ignoring the fact that teams between PSL1 and PSL2 did change the emerging players they weren't happy with/didn't fit their squad and kept the ones that did- feel free to go and check. The franchises are not resting on their laurels when it comes to emerging players. Your whole scenario rests on the situation that franchises are twiddling their thumbs- the evidence suggests otherwise. Your argument falls down because the emerging player category is not a "quota" (as you put it) on specific players- rather it is about giving a class of players (ie those who are u-23) opportunities to perform. Who those players are depends on who the franchises decide to pick. Indeed, given you were advocating for a free market, I am quite surprised to see you argue for an arbitrary cap on appearances. I ask again: you have mentioned it should be a free market, yet you are the one advocating in favour of an artificial constraint on the market. So how is that a free market? To put it more simply, why should the franchises be prevented from (re-)signing an u-23 on an EP contract simply because he has already been given one EP contract in the past?


    "That's why, without arguing for the sake of it, read my initial post - 1 or 2 new faces every year under "emerging quota" & at least 4 players U23 in playing XI. Ideally, some of this years' "Emerging" player should still make the team in U23 spots IF THEY ARE GOOD/POTENTIAL ENOUGH, but at a higher payment - at least Silver Category, while every year that "emerging" door is open for next prodigy. And, the guys who will be in trouble in this system are the MoHas & Misbahs & Maliks & Afridis - who are now competing for 7 spots, instead of 10 at the tender age of 40-45, that too at a premium price, in an young people's game."

    4. We share some common ground here. However, it's worth remembering you wrote this passage before you even knew of the u23 cap on emerging players. The easier solution to remove/make it more difficult for TTFs (such as Hafeez) from taking the place of a younger playeris to increase the number of "emerging" players you have to play, rather than your suggested proposal. Here's why. On my proposal, it's a win-win for "emerging" players- younger players are being granted more opportunities whilst also reducing the opportunities for TTFs (which we both agree is a good thing). However, your method relies on arbitrarily throwing out young players from the PSL in order to make space for other young players. As I have already said, this will discourage youngsters and re-introduce the "fear" culture. Your suggestion also fails to deal with the following:

    i) an emerging player is released from squad X simply because he did not fit their requirements. But he is perfect for squad Y. However, they are prevented from signing him on an EP contract due to your arbitrary rule.

    ii) Team X like player 1 and are happy with his performances. However, there is no room for him in the squad as all their silver position players are better than him (older but more experienced). Player 1 is therefore released and lost to the system.
    More or less, this time you seemed to understand for the later part of the post. Only 2 areas, which isn't clear yet -

    1. 8 weeks PSL (that's includes practice as well) in UAE with few international players for a T20 over game isn't exactly International exposure but I might be wrong. However, Fakhar Zaman had a 50/90 List A stats for 4 years before PSL, while Shadab played for PAK U19 & PAK A, before his exposure from Dean Jones. Richie Benaud comes, because I think he is a great leg spin bowling all-rounder- didn't think that in total 40 overs of bowling in 10 matches, where batsmen are forced to go after every ball is the best place to develop a teen aged leggi.


    2. You half read my post - here is the full story.

    I am not saying, don't give repeat contract to emerging players. Rather, I am saying don't block 1/2 emerging quota by allowing teams to retain same player (at lower cost) & block few spots that are left for new kids. 23 years cap at least covers that someone like Arshal Sheihk won't get life long Emerging contract, but it doesn't open the spot for a 20 years old kid, who'll be 21 next year & still might not get his chance, because clubs have decided to retain all of their 22-23 years old players.

    You might have missed the corresponding explanation of this -

    1 or 2 new faces every year under "emerging quota" & at least 4 players U23 in playing XI. Ideally, some of this years' "Emerging" player should still make the team in U23 spots IF THEY ARE GOOD/POTENTIAL ENOUGH, but at a higher payment - at least Silver Category, while every year that "emerging" door is open for next prodigy. And, the guys who will be in trouble in this system are the MoHas & Misbahs & Maliks & Afridis - who are now competing for 7 spots, instead of 10 at the tender age of 40-45, that too at a premium price, in an young people's game.

    The free market point came for a hypothetical scenario - if the rule isn't changed, IU decided to retain Shadab & since he is U23 & since any player can be retained as "Emerging", his comes with a pay cap of $10K - that means, unless Shadab is allowed to free his contract, he'll be forced to play at $10K deal. If it's the case, then obviously free market issue comes - but, if he is allowed to accept the offer or move, OR, if he is retained at a higher level - no issues. Problem is, not everyone is like Shadab.
    Last edited by idrizzy; 14th July 2017 at 17:21.

  46. #46
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    @mak36

    I have to leave now.

    If PSL franchise are willing to increase their player roster every year by 2/3 numbers - that open cap isn't helping new players to get that "International" exposure. If the owners are ready to pay 2/3 more players every year, indeed what you are saying is a great idea. In few years time, 40-45 players (many of them young), travelling with International players at the owners expense - nothing can be better than that. Otherwise, if the roster is blocked at 18 or 20 players - think again, what'll happen to most boys today playing at U18/19 level.

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    Name:  WhatsApp Image 2017-07-13 at 13.17.22.jpg
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    The passion and the flame is ignited, you can't stop us once we light it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    That wasn't smart by them really. Regardless of whether he was a good enough player, you need a captain and pretty much all teams cemented their captain after first or second pick. There was limited choice available.

    What ended up happening was they had to carry Azhar Ali in the team in order to have a captain. Which was disastrous, given Azhar wasn't even a good captain. Very poor planning. They got Gayle thinking he'd win the tournament for them in PSL and didn't think carefully into captaincy. Funny thing they transferred Gayle off for Sohail Tanvir next PSL anyway .

    I feel like Lahore was going to pick Hafeez as captain, they just thought he wouldn't be snatched up so could pick him later.They wanted to grab star players like Gayle, umar akmal etc. first. Of course it backfired.

    Picking guys like Misbah, Sarfraz, Malik (the latter didn't do well for some reason, but feel that's a bit unlucky on paper was a good choice) were the best early picks to build a team around. Lahore should have tried for one of those ideally.
    Remember, Hafeez couldn't bowl in the first season. So wasting a premium spot for him would have been bad. As for captaincy, owner's wanted to appoint Dwayne Bravo but the preassure from media and everyone to have a local captain forced their hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    I'm most interested to see who the captains will be. I would have thought Hafeez would be captaining Lahore than Multan, but seems like the reverse is true, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up moving and captaining, there's a slot freed up, and I don't think Mccullum will keep captaincy either after LQs performance.

    Would lead to thinking that Malik would go to Lahore. Lahore will end up with no franchise players with no certain captain, I wouldn't be surprised if they approached Malik to ask him to captain the side. I'd like to see Malik captain, he's been one of the best domestic captains we have had.
    COO of Qalandars said that Mcculum is a very devoted Qalandar and they will even try and get him in their SA league team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by super hitter View Post
    Wasn't it starting in July?

    Who would you like to retain/ drop from the team that you support?

    I support Karachi Kings.

    Drop;
    1)Chris Gayle
    2)Mahela Jaywerdene
    3)Ryan Mclaren
    4)Rahat Ali

    Retain;
    1)M.Amir
    2)Sohail Khan
    3)Babar Azam
    4)Keirn Pollard
    5)Ravi Bopara

    Note: You can miss out players if you don't care whether they are dropped or retained!
    i would drop bopara i felt he was behind the team feud in the first psl

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilalmasaud View Post
    i would drop bopara i felt he was behind the team feud in the first psl
    Is playing brilliantly for essex in the t20 bast


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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Doesn't it clash with the Australia, New Zealand and England t20 tri series?
    Really a T20 tri series


    Team Pakistan

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    These guys should be in 1 team by a miracle transfer

    Sharjeel
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Haris
    Sarfraz
    Shadab
    Fahim
    Amir
    Hasan
    Raza
    Ehtisham

    Overseas players on bench
    InshAllah that will be the PCT for 2019 WC

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhraja View Post
    Really a T20 tri series
    Yep, England are down to tour New Zealand after the Ashes so I guess it makes sense to play a tri series given how close the countries are rather than 2 separate t20 series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    More or less, this time you seemed to understand for the later part of the post. Only 2 areas, which isn't clear yet -

    1. 8 weeks PSL (that's includes practice as well) in UAE with few international players for a T20 over game isn't exactly International exposure but I might be wrong. However, Fakhar Zaman had a 50/90 List A stats for 4 years before PSL, while Shadab played for PAK U19 & PAK A, before his exposure from Dean Jones. Richie Benaud comes, because I think he is a great leg spin bowling all-rounder- didn't think that in total 40 overs of bowling in 10 matches, where batsmen are forced to go after every ball is the best place to develop a teen aged leggi.


    2. You half read my post - here is the full story.

    I am not saying, don't give repeat contract to emerging players. Rather, I am saying don't block 1/2 emerging quota by allowing teams to retain same player (at lower cost) & block few spots that are left for new kids. 23 years cap at least covers that someone like Arshal Sheihk won't get life long Emerging contract, but it doesn't open the spot for a 20 years old kid, who'll be 21 next year & still might not get his chance, because clubs have decided to retain all of their 22-23 years old players.

    You might have missed the corresponding explanation of this -

    1 or 2 new faces every year under "emerging quota" & at least 4 players U23 in playing XI. Ideally, some of this years' "Emerging" player should still make the team in U23 spots IF THEY ARE GOOD/POTENTIAL ENOUGH, but at a higher payment - at least Silver Category, while every year that "emerging" door is open for next prodigy. And, the guys who will be in trouble in this system are the MoHas & Misbahs & Maliks & Afridis - who are now competing for 7 spots, instead of 10 at the tender age of 40-45, that too at a premium price, in an young people's game.

    The free market point came for a hypothetical scenario - if the rule isn't changed, IU decided to retain Shadab & since he is U23 & since any player can be retained as "Emerging", his comes with a pay cap of $10K - that means, unless Shadab is allowed to free his contract, he'll be forced to play at $10K deal. If it's the case, then obviously free market issue comes - but, if he is allowed to accept the offer or move, OR, if he is retained at a higher level - no issues. Problem is, not everyone is like Shadab.
    Unfortunately your clarification statement doesn't help you. Please don't be so proud as to think someone disagreeing with your suggestion is the same as someone not understanding it. We agree on increasing the number of u-23 players (ie emerging players) in the playing xi, but your suggestion that a player should not be considered emerging for more than one season is draconian and would lead to a huge wastage in talent. It's the equivalent to using a mallet to crack a nut. To deal with your specific points:

    1. The PSL provides exposure (i) on an international stage with (ii) international players. The stats you provide about the players don't add to your case. What you wrote in your earlier post was that the PSL is not a place for emerging players (EP) to develop in any way. I suggested that most EPs did in fact develop (to varying degrees) over the course of the PSL and backed it up with evidence. Again, I am well aware of who the late, great Richie Benaud is but i'm not sure how he relates to this conversation (other than as a a distraction tactic).

    2. Regardless of how much you wriggle, what you are suggesting is that a player can only be classed as EP for 1 year. In other words, you want to ban franchises from (re)-signing an u-23 on an EP contract simply because they have previously had an EP contract. As I have stated previously, that makes no sense.

    I already dealt with your "quota" point earlier: your argument falls down because the emerging player category is not a "quota" (as you put it) on specific players- rather it is about giving a class of players (ie those who are u-23) opportunities to perform. Who those players are depends on who the franchises decide to pick. Your whole analysis rests on the situation that franchises are twiddling their thumbs- the evidence suggests otherwise: franchises between PSL1 and PSL2 did change the emerging players they weren't happy with/didn't fit their squad and kept the ones that did- feel free to go and check. In other words, the franchises are not resting on their laurels when it comes to EPs. Plus, as you have already accepted, for PSL 3 some of the EPs (Hassan, Shadab) will be offered higher category contracts based on their performance.

    3. You still haven't addressed my free market point i am afraid. To put it more simply, why should the franchises be prevented from (re-)signing an u-23 on an EP contract simply because he has already been given one EP contract in the past?

    You have failed to address the consequences of your suggested rule in my examples:

    i) an emerging player (called 1) is released from squad X because he did not fit their requirements. But he is perfect for squad Y. However, they are prevented from signing him on an EP contract due to your arbitrary rule. Squad Y cannot offer any more silver contracts and so cannot sign 1. Everyone loses from this situation.

    ii) Team Y like their emerging player (called 2) and are happy with his performances. However, there is no room for him in the squad as all their silver position players are better than him (older but more experienced). Player 2 is therefore released and lost to the system. Your rule prevents any of the other squads signing him as an emerging player. Again, everyone loses.


    As I have already written we share some common ground, but your suggested method has big problems. It's worth remembering you suggested your rule before you knew of the u23-cap an emerging player has to satisfy (introduced in PSL 2). To be honest, I think you are too proud to admit your mistake and instead are trying to defend an un-defendable position. If they hadn't brought this rule change in then your suggestion might had

    Your rule is well-intentioned but full of problems. You mention how it would remove TTFs from playing. The easier solution to remove/make it more difficult for TTFs from taking the place of a younger players is to increase the number of "emerging" players you have to play in your xi. You do suggest this but then you also say there should be a rule which prevents an EP from being (re)signed by a franchise as an EP more than once. That's unnecessary and counter-productive. If you remove your suggested rule, (ie my proposal) it's a win-win for "emerging" players- younger players are being granted more opportunities whilst also reducing the opportunities for TTFs (which we both agree is a good thing). However, your rule relies on arbitrarily throwing out young players from the PSL in order to make space for other young players. Re-read that sentence and think about it. Your rule prevents young potential stars from playing in the PSL. As I have already said, this will discourage youngsters and re-introduce the "fear" culture.

    To be honest, this argument has probably run its course but I am happy to continue if you directly address the points raised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by super hitter View Post
    drop delport, too unfair!
    Delport needs to be retained,legend of a player

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    I think Usama Mir should also be retained
    Drop Bopara

  58. #58
    MMHS is offline Time Pass & Sports Post of the Week Winner
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Unfortunately your clarification statement doesn't help you. Please don't be so proud as to think someone disagreeing with your suggestion is the same as someone not understanding it. We agree on increasing the number of u-23 players (ie emerging players) in the playing xi, but your suggestion that a player should not be considered emerging for more than one season is draconian and would lead to a huge wastage in talent. It's the equivalent to using a mallet to crack a nut. To deal with your specific points:

    1. The PSL provides exposure (i) on an international stage with (ii) international players. The stats you provide about the players don't add to your case. What you wrote in your earlier post was that the PSL is not a place for emerging players (EP) to develop in any way. I suggested that most EPs did in fact develop (to varying degrees) over the course of the PSL and backed it up with evidence. Again, I am well aware of who the late, great Richie Benaud is but i'm not sure how he relates to this conversation (other than as a a distraction tactic).

    2. Regardless of how much you wriggle, what you are suggesting is that a player can only be classed as EP for 1 year. In other words, you want to ban franchises from (re)-signing an u-23 on an EP contract simply because they have previously had an EP contract. As I have stated previously, that makes no sense.

    I already dealt with your "quota" point earlier: your argument falls down because the emerging player category is not a "quota" (as you put it) on specific players- rather it is about giving a class of players (ie those who are u-23) opportunities to perform. Who those players are depends on who the franchises decide to pick. Your whole analysis rests on the situation that franchises are twiddling their thumbs- the evidence suggests otherwise: franchises between PSL1 and PSL2 did change the emerging players they weren't happy with/didn't fit their squad and kept the ones that did- feel free to go and check. In other words, the franchises are not resting on their laurels when it comes to EPs. Plus, as you have already accepted, for PSL 3 some of the EPs (Hassan, Shadab) will be offered higher category contracts based on their performance.

    3. You still haven't addressed my free market point i am afraid. To put it more simply, why should the franchises be prevented from (re-)signing an u-23 on an EP contract simply because he has already been given one EP contract in the past?

    You have failed to address the consequences of your suggested rule in my examples:

    i) an emerging player (called 1) is released from squad X because he did not fit their requirements. But he is perfect for squad Y. However, they are prevented from signing him on an EP contract due to your arbitrary rule. Squad Y cannot offer any more silver contracts and so cannot sign 1. Everyone loses from this situation.

    ii) Team Y like their emerging player (called 2) and are happy with his performances. However, there is no room for him in the squad as all their silver position players are better than him (older but more experienced). Player 2 is therefore released and lost to the system. Your rule prevents any of the other squads signing him as an emerging player. Again, everyone loses.


    As I have already written we share some common ground, but your suggested method has big problems. It's worth remembering you suggested your rule before you knew of the u23-cap an emerging player has to satisfy (introduced in PSL 2). To be honest, I think you are too proud to admit your mistake and instead are trying to defend an un-defendable position. If they hadn't brought this rule change in then your suggestion might had

    Your rule is well-intentioned but full of problems. You mention how it would remove TTFs from playing. The easier solution to remove/make it more difficult for TTFs from taking the place of a younger players is to increase the number of "emerging" players you have to play in your xi. You do suggest this but then you also say there should be a rule which prevents an EP from being (re)signed by a franchise as an EP more than once. That's unnecessary and counter-productive. If you remove your suggested rule, (ie my proposal) it's a win-win for "emerging" players- younger players are being granted more opportunities whilst also reducing the opportunities for TTFs (which we both agree is a good thing). However, your rule relies on arbitrarily throwing out young players from the PSL in order to make space for other young players. Re-read that sentence and think about it. Your rule prevents young potential stars from playing in the PSL. As I have already said, this will discourage youngsters and re-introduce the "fear" culture.

    To be honest, this argument has probably run its course but I am happy to continue if you directly address the points raised.
    Let's part it - may be I failed to explain it properly.

    Last year, when the put Emerging quota, I didn't like the way it was executed - that time I actually wrote that open age Emerging quota isn't good. I didn't know that this year, they have changed it to a cap of 23 years - which is good, because it covers one end of the open loop. If PSL continues, we'll see there is a cap of years as well in coming days. In some way, this is the practice in most major club sports & age level tournaments.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
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    It is confusing me a little.

    They will surely be having a different player list this time around.So there will be some shuffles in the players' categories.They haven't released the list so how are they going to retain players from different categories?Hasan,Shadab and other players will be elevated and some players demoted,so how does it work?

    If they go by last year's list Hasan,Shadab,Asghar will be picked from emerging category which will be a travesty.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy1999 View Post
    Drop Bopara
    Bopara wasn't given much exposure last season otherwise he's still a top class player if you see the Natwest t-20 blast


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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Let's part it - may be I failed to explain it properly.

    Last year, when the put Emerging quota, I didn't like the way it was executed - that time I actually wrote that open age Emerging quota isn't good. I didn't know that this year, they have changed it to a cap of 23 years - which is good, because it covers one end of the open loop. If PSL continues, we'll see there is a cap of years as well in coming days. In some way, this is the practice in most major club sports & age level tournaments.
    Basically, in the first year, there was no age restriction, only the requirement nit to have played for Pakistan. WHich led to many players in their 30's being picked as emerging. Like Lahore picked 34 year old Adnan Rasool. This year, the requirement. Player must be under 23, even if he has played for Pakistan.

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    Karachi Kings have to DROP 1 of;

    1)Chris Gayle (Dropped, Afridi will replace)
    2)Shoaib malik
    3)Keirn Pollard

    1)Bopara (maybe dropped)
    2)Amir
    3)Sangakarra

    1)Imad
    2)Ryan Mclaren (dropped)
    3)Babar


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasy View Post
    It is confusing me a little.

    They will surely be having a different player list this time around.So there will be some shuffles in the players' categories.They haven't released the list so how are they going to retain players from different categories?Hasan,Shadab and other players will be elevated and some players demoted,so how does it work?

    If they go by last year's list Hasan,Shadab,Asghar will be picked from emerging category which will be a travesty.
    Emerging category simply means players under 23. Hasan will no longer be in the list but Shadab and Asghar will.

    The player list won't be entirely different this time around apart from a few overseas players. From the remaining players in the list each team can retain 10 players from the previous year's team squad.


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    That is exactly the question,you see.

    How are they going to retain players from certain categories when they don't know which player is in which category?They haven't released a list in which players will given their respective category.This year's list will be a different one,even though changes will be on a small scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fantasy View Post
    that is exactly the question,you see.

    How are they going to retain players from certain categories when they don't know which player is in which category?they haven't released a list in which players will given their respective category.this year's list will be a different one,even though changes will be on a small scale.
    @a.a.z

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by super hitter View Post
    Bopara wasn't given much exposure last season otherwise he's still a top class player if you see the Natwest t-20 blast
    Yeh but he kind of helped Karachi Fall this year,No bowling,Not much good batting

  67. #67
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    This one I am clear - the previous classification is void now. What'll happen is team will be allowed to retain 10 players in total, in respective quota. Here players are not fixed, neither their previous status is valid. Rather, every player will be given a fresh contract.

    It's like an internal draft for every Franchise within their players. For example, take Champions Zalmi -

    They have 2 picks for Diamond & 2 for Platinum (Including foreigners, I am not going to that) - so, they might wish to retain Sammy, Afridi, Tamim, Sakib, Morgan, MoHa, KAkmal, Hasan, JK & Iftekhar. But, they can't give everyone Diamond or Platinum deal - at one point, they might have to offer Afridi a Platinum or Shakib a Gold or Tamim a Silver contract - if the player is happy, it's done; otherwise that player is released & he'll go to open bid. Here, teams are given 10 picks among own roster, in 5 pay group - if Gayle is ready to accept a Gold contract, KK will be more than happy to retain him, but don't think they'll block 1 of 2 Diamond (I believe the order is DPGSE) for Gayle now - he'll be released.

    Still, I am sure, many local players will be happy to accept an inferior retainer (that's retained at a lower payment), rather than risking unsold in open bid.
    Last edited by A.A.Z; 14th July 2017 at 18:48.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Captaincy is not judged on numbers alone. Hafeez failed as captain when it actually mattered- ie in two T20 WCs. Indeed, the group stage exit in 2014 was the first time Pakistan failed to reach the semi-finals.

    Plus he had terrible man-management skills as borne out by his unilateral approach to the captaincy. Look no further than his treatment of Razzaq- Hafeez refused to pick Razzaq for most of the 2012 WC, and in the only game Razzaq played he wasn't even given a chance to bowl.

    That's even before I mention the concerns you have touched on:

    If you accept it is not a good move for the future, why are you in favour of giving him the captaincy? It would be a backwards step, which would prevent new talent developing. Either give the captaincy to someone who has experience in nurturing young talent (irrespective of nationality) and/or give it to a potential future captain of PCT so they can gain some vital captaincy experience.

    2. He insists on batting in the top 3, which will mean denying young players the opportunities they deserve. There's already enough of that going on in the domestic circuit. The PSL is supposed to be a platform for youngsters to shine on the big stage. However, Hafeez would view that as a threat to his own position in PCT and so as captain he would stifle youth development.
    I agree with all of it.He was average as a captain

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    No he wasn't.

    Hafeez is one of the best captains/tacticians in all of Pakistan even today. That's probably his best asset actually - his captaincy.

    I know it's not a good move keeping in mind the future, but Hafeez as captain would be a good move by Multan.
    Whats his acheivements as a captain.He cant even captain faislabad SNGPL when misbah azhar was there.He failed in ICC events.Lastly a captain should be A performer and leader from front and hafeez is terrible in both of it.Cant forget when he made sohaib (who was on his very early stage) to open and forced him to take strike and face steyn in T20 and positioned himself at non-striking end

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    Pakistan Super League 2018 Any Updates About Teams?

    Transfer Window Is Open Now For PSL 2018

  71. #71
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    Any rumours of players moving to franchises?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Any rumours of players moving to franchises?
    Other than Raza Hasan looking like he is going to join LQ, all seems quiet atm.

  73. #73
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    Brad haddin is appointed as fielding coach by Cricket AUS for 2 years

    this probably means he will no longer play for united i hope islambad find any young domestic wicket keeper

    but i think most probably go with sam billings if he is available

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    Brad haddin is appointed as fielding coach by Cricket AUS for 2 years

    this probably means he will no longer play for united i hope islambad find any young domestic wicket keeper

    but i think most probably go with sam billings if he is available
    He had a pretty poor tournament with the bat so this wouldn't surprise me.

    Umair Masood and Mohammad Hasan are both options. The former showcased his abilities in the u19 WC whilst the latter has just been awarded a central contract so it wouldn't surprise me if he is picked up in the PSL. Doesn't get enough batting opportunities as he bats at eight so it's difficult to judge but from what i've seen he looks pretty inventive and has a good SR (152 in t20s).

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    He had a pretty poor tournament with the bat so this wouldn't surprise me.

    Umair Masood and Mohammad Hasan are both options. The former showcased his abilities in the u19 WC whilst the latter has just been awarded a central contract so it wouldn't surprise me if he is picked up in the PSL. Doesn't get enough batting opportunities as he bats at eight so it's difficult to judge but from what i've seen he looks pretty inventive and has a good SR (152 in t20s).
    i think hasan will be part of karachi kings squad and as for rehan afridi he is not some one who is popular

    compare to other pak wicket keeper so realistically united will pick foriegn wicket keeper which may

    be ramdin or billings or ben dukett who was already with them last session

  76. #76
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    Umair Masood is going to play the upcoming t20cup for Rawalpindi. He has good chance of getting into the eyes of psl franchises.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    i think hasan will be part of karachi kings squad and as for rehan afridi he is not some one who is popular

    compare to other pak wicket keeper so realistically united will pick foriegn wicket keeper which may

    be ramdin or billings or ben dukett who was already with them last session
    Karachi already have Saifullah Bangash and Kumar Sangakarra so I doubt Hasan will go there, unless one of those two leave.

    I never mentioned Rehan Afridi.

    I mentoned Umair Masood (the U19 wicketkeeper who was impressive in the WC) and he has been selected by Rawalpindi for the t20 cup, so this is his chance to shine if he wants to be picked for the PSL. He has a decent captain in Umar Amin so I am sure he will be treated fairly.

    Billings is a possibility unless he is selected by England for the tri-series.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliance View Post
    Umair Masood is going to play the upcoming t20cup for Rawalpindi. He has good chance of getting into the eyes of psl franchises.
    i hope he perform . he was good in u19 worldcup

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Karachi already have Saifullah Bangash and Kumar Sangakarra so I doubt Hasan will go there, unless one of those two leave.

    I never mentioned Rehan Afridi.

    I mentoned Umair Masood (the U19 wicketkeeper who was impressive in the WC) and he has been selected by Rawalpindi for the t20 cup, so this is his chance to shine if he wants to be picked for the PSL. He has a decent captain in Umar Amin so I am sure he will be treated fairly.

    Billings is a possibility unless he is selected by England for the tri-series.
    my bad
    i read somewhere that karachi will pick hasan over saifullah in next PSL so he might

    not available

    umair is very good prospect i saw him in u19 worldcup also i hope he performs and picked

    in PSL
    Last edited by saeed5646; 10th August 2017 at 16:20.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post

    Umair Masood and Mohammad Hasan are both options. The former showcased his abilities in the u19 WC whilst the latter has just been awarded a central contract so it wouldn't surprise me if he is picked up in the PSL. Doesn't get enough batting opportunities as he bats at eight so it's difficult to judge but from what i've seen he looks pretty inventive and has a good SR (152 in t20s).
    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliance View Post
    Umair Masood is going to play the upcoming t20cup for Rawalpindi. He has good chance of getting into the eyes of psl franchises.
    Yes I noticed. Great news- I think he is the only keeper in Pindi's squad so this is his chance to shine.

    Slightly surprised Hasan hasn't been selected- will be interesting to see which keepers were chosen in front of him.

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