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  1. #1
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    The INVINCIBLE Dale Steyn - Undisputed fast-bowling great?

    Dale Steyn's performances are absolutely alien like in the modern era which is very protective of all the sissy batsman who are worshipped by sissy fans

    He only averages above 30+ in two countries, UAE (33) which is not too bad given the nature of the wickets there and England (32) a place where you'd expect him to do better.

    Other then that, he has been terrific; these are his averages in the respective countries:

    AUS: 28.77
    IND: 21.38
    NZ: 26.55
    PAK: 24.66
    SA: 20.94
    SL: 24.71
    WI: 18.13
    ZIMB: 10.50

    There are other fast bowlers who may have been a bit more versatile but can you seriously argue against Dale Steyn's greatness when bowlers have been severely handicapped in the PG era of cricket ?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  2. #2
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    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  3. #3
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    Steyn is the GOAT just look at what era he bowled in.

  4. #4
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    Overrated. Proof that stats aren't everything. Greater bowlers than him have come and gone by.

    If you were given a list of pacers to face gun to your head, he'd be my first choice as I'd fancy my chances vs him.


    Swing it like Akram, whack it like Afridi, live it like Inti.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    Overrated. Proof that stats aren't everything. Greater bowlers than him have come and gone by.

    If you were given a list of pacers to face gun to your head, he'd me first choice as I'd fancy my chances vs him.
    Good luck waking up with a concussion the next morning


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    Steyn is the GOAT just look at what era he bowled in.
    Exactly, it's one of the most pivotal factors we need to consider; his numbers are not meant to be that good, they are just as immortal as Don's 99 average which eliminates all anomalies when it comes to greatness


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  7. #7
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    Best bowler of ALL TIME.

  8. #8
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    It's a shame injuries caught up with him. But I guess that's a trade off for them stats.

    It's funny because if he didn't amp it up as he does and preserved his body a bit better, his averages might be higher but he'd play a couple more years. Even if his averages were +3 to all countries, people will still say he wasn't that great/he is overrated/his stats aren't good enough.

    You can't win with some people

    ATG for sure, especially in this era of bowling.

  9. #9
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    Overrated by Indians


    Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of wealth & taste.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Good luck waking up with a concussion the next morning
    I'll wake up and say ah so this is what it feels like.

    All joking aside, he'll definitely go down as an ATG but I don't think he is the GOAT. Think to be a goat along with stats you need to have complete mastery over fast bowling and imo Steyn was a bit one dimensional in that regard when you compare him to the likes of Marshall and Akram.

    But yeah post 2000s era he is up there.


    Swing it like Akram, whack it like Afridi, live it like Inti.

  11. #11
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    Brilliant test bowler but not as good as McGrath , Ambrose, Donald, and Akram.

  12. #12
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    He's a fantastic bowler and for my time of watching cricket, Steyn and Anderson are ATG bowlers and have beautiful bowling actions. Still love watching videos of Steyn bowling in ODI's from his younger days, quality bowler.

  13. #13
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    best pacer of this era but not in the class of the true greats

  14. #14
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    steyn in tests wipes the floor with two Ws McGrath and Ambrose. he bowled on much flatter decks batsman with thicker bats. He should be lauded as the GOAT. would have averaged under 20 in the 90s era.

  15. #15
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    Easily the best bowler of his era and will put him in same class as Wasim, Donald and McGrath as far as tests are concerned.

    His numbers in England arent that impressive because ECB prepared absolute pattas in 2012-13 series because of the fear of Steyn-gun. As a result of which Amla , Smith and Kallis were more than enough to pile plenty of runs on board and take the series away from England.

    He has shown his class against an ATG Indian lineup on Indian pitches. So there is nothing left for him to prove.

  16. #16
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    why isnt he popular like wasim, waqar, mcgrath, donald, ambrose, akhtar, lee , bond etc?

  17. #17
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    Much better than any bowler we have produced. If he had been born here we would not worship Wasim anywhere near as much.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Definitely an ATG, no question about it. His strike rate is insane!

  19. #19
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    Personally don't think he's the GOAT, however he's obviously the best of this era and a bonafide ATG. Can see a case made for him in the top 5 ever.

    People say big bats, poor pitches and etc but in reality, the 2005 onwards era just had a lesser amount of faster bowlers due to a combination of mediocre talent and misfortunes. Test cricket as a whole hasn't had much change for last 30 odd years apart from strike rate and economy. Ryan Harris, Shane Bond, Mohammed Asif should all have been the other ATGs of this era when not counting injuries and/or controversies while Anderson has no business being named here as an ATG.

    ATM the only elite tier talent is Rabada but I do think Hazelwood, Starc, Boult and Amir are also capable. That's quite a few talented bowlers, all capable of reaching ATG if they improve/get back to their best.

  20. #20
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    ATG. I love watching videos of him from 10 years ago, love the fire he bowls with. he can just produce something out of nothing. A true great and the stats back him.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post

    There are other fast bowlers who may have been a bit more versatile but can you seriously argue against Dale Steyn's greatness when bowlers have been severely handicapped in the PG era of cricket ?
    I had a debate with someone of similar age to me. I said Steyn is as good as Marshall. My friend still thinks Marshall was better.

  22. #22
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    Absolute ATG.

    What a bowler. Monster in all conditions during an era that's difficult for bowlers.

    Also, one of the finest bowling actions I've had the pleasure of seeing.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post

    Loved watching him esp the one spell he bowled in India a few years ago. He has the rare ability to swing the ball at high pace.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  24. #24
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    Easily an all-time great. South Africa are missing him badly at the moment, but I suspect his days of playing test cricket are behind him.

  25. #25
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    This delivery to an in-form Clarke was a perfect example of how good he was. Perfect line with high pace and movement.

    Last edited by kingusama92; 14th July 2017 at 20:20.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  26. #26
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    One of the best fast bowler.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I had a debate with someone of similar age to me. I said Steyn is as good as Marshall. My friend still thinks Marshall was better.
    Your opinion is of great value given that you witnessed the primes of both bowlers


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  28. #28
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    Among the finest for sure. Not an easy job to keep accuracy with swing and pace throughout the career. Must be super hard work.

  29. #29
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    Best ever. Given the hypocrisy of lot of the rose-tinted fans & critics who will over-rate the past batsmen because supposedly they didn't have the luxury afforded to modern bats (technique wise, fitness wise, safety gear, batsmen friendly pitches, no bouncer rule etc etc) and demean the current ones for that.

    When it comes to bowling, The same dudes will never praise this era's bowler on such pitches but will over-rate past ATG's despite being given lot of leverage to work on the batsmen. If steyn was in that era, he would have been as good as any of the WI bowlers. Such is the talent of this man

  30. #30
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    Better than all bowlers we have produced in test cricket. Maybe Imran is his equal, but that's it. Easily superior to Wasim and Waqar.

  31. #31
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    Greatest test bowler of this era and one of the best of all time.


    Pakistan didn't just defy logic, they spat in logic's face, questioned the moral inclinations of its parents, kicked it in the shins, kneed it in the groin, strangled it unconscious, then shoved it into the mud and set its trousers on fire

  32. #32
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    Steyn has a legitimate case for GOAT status.

    Even tailenders are good now.

    He's performed in the toughest conditions under the toughest rules against the strongest batting line-ups ever seen (depth wise).


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  33. #33
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    He's a top notch bowler definitely a top 5 test bowler of all time.. Probably only behind McGrath and Marshall ahead of Wasim, ambrose in tests..

  34. #34
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    Dale Steyn is a superb bowler, easily the best of this generation.

    But don't get carried away.

    Contrary to the prevailing view in this thread, Dale Steyn has taken most of his Test wickets at home, in bowler-friendly conditions.

    Against the two most powerful rivals, that is the only ones which have won Test series in South Africa during his career (England and Australia), his average blows out to 31.62 and 27.47, which reduces him to the territory where we find Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad.

    Dale Steyn is an ATG bowler, but he is not quite as good as Dennis Lillee was and he is significantly short of Malcolm Marshall, in spite of what @Robert states. Marshall had everything: he could not just swing it both ways but also seam it in and out.

    I'm inclined to rate the fast bowlers whom I have watched in the last forty two years as follows:

    1. Malcolm Marshall

    BIG GAP

    2. Dennis Lillee (ignore the supposed Asia problem - he barely bowled there except on specially-designed graveyards in Pakistan).

    SMALL GAP

    3. Mike Procter (supported both by his Test record and his SuperTest record a decade later)
    4. Richard Hadlee
    5. Dale Steyn roughly equal with Imran Khan and Glenn McGrath

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Dale Steyn is a superb bowler, easily the best of this generation.

    But don't get carried away.

    Contrary to the prevailing view in this thread, Dale Steyn has taken most of his Test wickets at home, in bowler-friendly conditions.

    Against the two most powerful rivals, that is the only ones which have won Test series in South Africa during his career (England and Australia), his average blows out to 31.62 and 27.47, which reduces him to the territory where we find Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad.

    Dale Steyn is an ATG bowler, but he is not quite as good as Dennis Lillee was and he is significantly short of Malcolm Marshall, in spite of what @Robert states. Marshall had everything: he could not just swing it both ways but also seam it in and out.

    I'm inclined to rate the fast bowlers whom I have watched in the last forty two years as follows:

    1. Malcolm Marshall

    BIG GAP

    2. Dennis Lillee (ignore the supposed Asia problem - he barely bowled there except on specially-designed graveyards in Pakistan).

    SMALL GAP

    3. Mike Procter (supported both by his Test record and his SuperTest record a decade later)
    4. Richard Hadlee
    5. Dale Steyn roughly equal with Imran Khan and Glenn McGrath
    Marshall's averages look unattainable until you compare him to his peers.

    Let's take his average of 23.15 in AUS. Hadlee averaged 17. Garner averaged 20. Holding averaged 23.

    He was simply bowling in a bowler-friendly era, and now his stats look like he was Superman. Legendary fast bowler (and can be argued as GOAT) but I disagree with the idea of a big gap.

    Here's an in-depth peek at Steyn's stats.

    In AUS = 28.77
    In SA = 20.94 (HOME)
    In ENG = 31.65
    In NZ = 26.55
    In IND = 21.38
    In PAK = 24.66 (32 in UAE)
    In WI = 18.13
    In SL = 24.71
    In BAN = 14.20
    In ZIM = 10.50

    I mean these are staggering figures. The averages in IND, SL, and PAK are legendary considering what he's bowled on in those conditions. Absolute highways under scorching conditions.

    And absolutely unstoppable at home. In comparison, Marshall averaged a mere 23 (by his lofty standards) in his home conditions!

    Marshall had bowler-friendly pitches, better schedules, weaker batting lineups, and easier rules.

    I feel the large gap is artificial more than anything else with feelings of nostalgia sprinkled in.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  36. #36
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    Robelinda is an avid cricket fan who has archives cricket matches since last 30 years & especialy matches played & broadcast in australia. He has the vhs tapes of those super test junaids & hasrh thakor always talk about and on those basis they will upvote south african county players over players whose career spanned decades, were tested vigorously & had to face a lot of diversity over long period of time. He also posts here at Pak passion.

    In one of his old posts, a guy asked him if how good were the supertests organized by Packer. Rob's reply shocked the guy and me as well. I want you guys to just google that reply cause i forgot the name of thread and see for yourself what he says about the "Quality of cricket" in those supertests.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Against the two most powerful rivals, that is the only ones which have won Test series in South Africa during his career (England and Australia), his average blows out to 31.62 and 27.47, which reduces him to the territory where we find Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad.
    Lol these are numbers with no context. He won SA two series in Aus (2008 and 2012) and in Eng (2012) when the pitches were flat pattas. He averaged 30 odd in Eng in 2012 on the same pitches where HTB Broad/Anderson could barely average below 45. Look up the stats of that series.

    And you know which is the best batting lineup for majority of Steyn's career (ie) from 2006-2012? not Aus, not Eng. It was India who had the best lineup by far. And Steyn was utterly dominant home and away.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TQ89 View Post
    Robelinda is an avid cricket fan who has archives cricket matches since last 30 years & especialy matches played & broadcast in australia. He has the vhs tapes of those super test junaids & hasrh thakor always talk about and on those basis they will upvote south african county players over players whose career spanned decades, were tested vigorously & had to face a lot of diversity over long period of time. He also posts here at Pak passion.

    In one of his old posts, a guy asked him if how good were the supertests organized by Packer. Rob's reply shocked the guy and me as well. I want you guys to just google that reply cause i forgot the name of thread and see for yourself what he says about the "Quality of cricket" in those supertests.
    The flaw with that is what the participants say.

    Ask Imran Khan or Viv Richards or Ian Chappell or anyone else: they all say that the SuperTests were tougher and better than the ICC Tests they played.

    No exceptions.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    The flaw with that is what the participants say.

    Ask Imran Khan or Viv Richards or Ian Chappell or anyone else: they all say that the SuperTests were tougher and better than the ICC Tests they played.

    No exceptions.
    Those are big names of cricket but they also suffer from "70's is great and we were the most awesome cricketers ever" syndrome. Whenever you talk modern cricket, they will praise the batsmen of their era and degrade current ones because supposedly today's batsman takes advantage of laws/pitches which are in his favor.

    But give me one sample where they applied this logic on themselves and said that we took advantage of bowling situation at that time (which they most certainly did & were right to do so). How many them will actually rate steyn as better than them because if you wanna give respect to the batsmen of the past because they had tough, why do you forget the ATG bowlers of today?

    On that note, they will again refer back to themselves as the best bowlers.In short you just have to be a good player in the 70's/80's and you will be absolved of any criteria & can trump any player in any decade.

    Double standards is the major flaw here and you just like to deflect thread to another issue when you don't have answers. In another random thread, you had to resort to bring tennis in a cricket discussion to prove your point. How did that go?

  40. #40
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    I am among those who has immense respect for the batsman of previous era's given the nature of the environment they played in it would be naive to judge them without context, for those reasons the current lot need to do a lot more the moment they are presented with a challenge in order to be considered at the same level. This view is also consistent with my praise for Dale Steyn and his greatness as a fast bowler, he is in the top 3 greatest ever at the very least in my eyes:

    1. Imran Khan
    2. Wasim Akram
    3. Dale Steyn

    But won't argue against those who have him as no.1, the bloke has earned it.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  41. #41
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    Steyn is no doubt an ATG and the current GOAT bowler of the 21st century. But the fact that he plays in a batsmen friendly era is not as detrimental as some make it out to be. With batsmen use to the docile nature of modern day flat pitches Steyn has feasted on a generation of batsmen who are very poor against the slightest lateral movement.

    The ease of modern day batting has made even test match batting a lot more fast paced and most batsmen just don't have the patience to grind it out and play one flash shot too many. Steyn is peerless in modern day test match bowling but there's a reason he hasn't been as effective in Loi's. He's very good in a generation of very few good test batsmen, this is a generation of batsmen who are white-ball specialists.


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    Second best quick I have seen behind McGrath.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.A.Z View Post
    Steyn is no doubt an ATG and the current GOAT bowler of the 21st century. But the fact that he plays in a batsmen friendly era is not as detrimental as some make it out to be. With batsmen use to the docile nature of modern day flat pitches Steyn has feasted on a generation of batsmen who are very poor against the slightest lateral movement.

    The ease of modern day batting has made even test match batting a lot more fast paced and most batsmen just don't have the patience to grind it out and play one flash shot too many. Steyn is peerless in modern day test match bowling but there's a reason he hasn't been as effective in Loi's. He's very good in a generation of very few good test batsmen, this is a generation of batsmen who are white-ball specialists .
    That's a good point which I did not consider to be fair, where do you rank Steyn in your top 5 or top 10 ?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Steyn is the best I've seen by a distance, almost unstoppable to stop when in full flow.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  45. #45
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    The ATG of this era.

    But...yet again a reminder that you can't base everything on stats.

    Ask any batsman or even yourself. Who would you face if given a choice among Steyn, Waqar, Wasim, Marshall?

    Steyn due to lack of skillset RELATIVE to other greats is easier to face .


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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    That's a good point which I did not consider to be fair, where do you rank Steyn in your top 5 or top 10 ?
    Borderline top 5, his achievements in the subcontinent in this batsmen friendly era make it so.


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    Greatest cricketer of this century

  48. #48
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    Of course.

    Steyn's funny though there are periods where he looks totally normal, and then periods where he's decimates the team. Seen plenty of times, he'll bowl 10 or so overs and look pretty nonthreatening and then the next ten overs or so he'll suddenly clean up a team. He's not always consistent like Mcgrath was for example.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Ask any batsman or even yourself. Who would you face if given a choice among Steyn, Waqar, Wasim, Marshall?
    Not many batsmen have faced both Wasim and Steyn to give an unbiased opinion

  50. #50
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    Invincible until he faces someone who can take him on then he turns into a puppy.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts_and_cuts_hard View Post
    Not many batsmen have faced both Wasim and Steyn to give an unbiased opinion
    Ricky Ponting has faced both and is on record stating Wasim was the toughest he faced.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Second best quick I have seen behind McGrath.
    Basically this.


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  53. #53
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    Steyn is jaw dropping and second best behind mcgra.....the reason why i think mcgra the best ever is due to his unmatchable longevity and of course the shear consistency

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Invincible until he faces someone who can take him on then he turns into a puppy.
    On the plus side I suppose he doesn't beg his captain to take him off in those moments


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    Ricky Ponting has faced both and is on record stating Wasim was the toughest he faced.
    Sure, and that's just one man. Regardless I do not give contemporary opinion as much importance as actual results.

    Look up Ponting's stats vs Steyn. He was utterly owned by him every time they met except for 2008 series where Ponting played him well. The thing with Wasim is that he was more skilled, no doubt. But the results did not necessarily reflect this. He was a more skilled bowler than McGrath too but McGrath simply produced the more consistent results. Which is more important.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts_and_cuts_hard View Post
    Sure, and that's just one man. Regardless I do not give contemporary opinion as much importance as actual results.

    Look up Ponting's stats vs Steyn. He was utterly owned by him every time they met except for 2008 series where Ponting played him well. The thing with Wasim is that he was more skilled, no doubt. But the results did not necessarily reflect this. He was a more skilled bowler than McGrath too but McGrath simply produced the more consistent results. Which is more important.
    steyn did not have to face a peak ponting. steyn only became a top bowler from 2008 onwards and ponting decline started from that period onwards. from 2001 to 2007 ponting was the best batsman in the world by a big margin. it is no surprise that the only time ponting faced steyn in his peak he dominated him.

    had steyn faced peak ponting he would have been humiliated. steyn is a great bowler but only on this forum is he considered equal / better than wasim , imran , mcgrath, donald , lillee etc

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo23 View Post
    steyn did not have to face a peak ponting. steyn only became a top bowler from 2008 onwards and ponting decline started from that period onwards. from 2001 to 2007 ponting was the best batsman in the world by a big margin. it is no surprise that the only time ponting faced steyn in his peak he dominated him.
    Lol and how is this relevant? As if Wasim ever bowled to peak Ponting. Only time he bowled to Ponting in tests was in 1999 when Ponting was only 2 years into his career and nowhere near his peak.

    If anything it only proves my point that no players can judge this properly when they say "Wasim was harder to face" because very few faced both, and even if they did, they did not face both at their peak.

    had steyn faced peak ponting he would have been humiliated. steyn is a great bowler but only on this forum is he considered equal / better than wasim , imran , mcgrath, donald , lillee etc
    This is baseless rubbish.

    In fact if you go to other forums, Steyn is rated higher than almost everyone except McGrath and Marshall.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts_and_cuts_hard View Post
    Lol and how is this relevant? As if Wasim ever bowled to peak Ponting. Only time he bowled to Ponting in tests was in 1999 when Ponting was only 2 years into his career and nowhere near his peak.

    If anything it only proves my point that no players can judge this properly when they say "Wasim was harder to face" because very few faced both, and even if they did, they did not face both at their peak.



    This is baseless rubbish.

    In fact if you go to other forums, Steyn is rated higher than almost everyone except McGrath and Marshall.
    pointless comparison. wasim bowled to some of the greatest batsman ever. which legendary batsmen has steyn bowled to?

    it is a well known fact that south africa have had the strongest batting line up during steyn's career. apart from that he has not been brilliant against two of the best batting sides of his time (aus and eng) and he got owned by one of the best batsman of this era (kp).

    so steyn has made his career by bullying weak line ups like pak , sl , wi , nz

    his biggest achievement has been doing well against a top indian line up and that is why he is a great bowler. but better or as good as the likes of wasim ? no chance

    lets not even talk about his zero achievements in odi cricket. wasim won pak a wc final while steyn got owned by elliot in the biggest odi of his career

    steyn = great bowler

    wasim = absolute legend and steyn is not good enough to be compared to him

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo23 View Post
    pointless comparison. wasim bowled to some of the greatest batsman ever. which legendary batsmen has steyn bowled to?

    it is a well known fact that south africa have had the strongest batting line up during steyn's career. apart from that he has not been brilliant against two of the best batting sides of his time (aus and eng) and he got owned by one of the best batsman of this era (kp).

    so steyn has made his career by bullying weak line ups like pak , sl , wi , nz

    his biggest achievement has been doing well against a top indian line up and that is why he is a great bowler. but better or as good as the likes of wasim ? no chance

    lets not even talk about his zero achievements in odi cricket. wasim won pak a wc final while steyn got owned by elliot in the biggest odi of his career

    steyn = great bowler

    wasim = absolute legend and steyn is not good enough to be compared to him
    This is a batsman-friendly era.

    Steyn has it the hardest where average batsmen are rocking a 40+ average. It's a real disservice to put down his work as a test bowler.

    Pietersen scored 152, 45, 13, 31, 0, 6, 7, 12. Steyn took his wicket 3/8 in these innings.

    Barring that hundred, I'd say Steyn and SA owned KP.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo23 View Post
    pointless comparison. wasim bowled to some of the greatest batsman ever. which legendary batsmen has steyn bowled to?

    it is a well known fact that south africa have had the strongest batting line up during steyn's career. apart from that he has not been brilliant against two of the best batting sides of his time (aus and eng) and he got owned by one of the best batsman of this era (kp).
    Haha again this rubbish.

    Let us go team by team:

    Aus : Better batting lineup in Wasim's era, no doubt

    Eng: Wasim bowled to the weakest English lineup of all time in 90s. Likes of Hick, Ramprakash and Crawley were in team. And yet he averaged 30 against them. In Steyn's time, the lineup, Eng had KP, Cook, Trott, Strauss, Prior, etc ... all far better than the majority of 90s Eng batsmen. And yet his average of 32 is seen as a "failure" despite Wasim having averaged 30 against a far weaker lienup. Amazing, amazing double standards. It's laughable.

    India: Ind of 90s was Sachin or bust. Azhar was too inconsistent and Ganguly/Dravid came in 1996/97 and were still babies. India of Steyn's era had Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman + Dhoni... all at or near their peak. Even Sachin had a second peak in 2010 almost as good as his 90s form. And Steyn DOMINATED this lineup. Bowling multiple match winning spells IN INDIA. Averaged 20.

    SL: Again in Wasim's era, SL was far far weaker. Which great batsmen did he bowl to? Jayasuriya? He was ODI ATG, not test. Aravinda was excellent but not world class. Steyn has bowled to Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Mathews, all three are SL greats and much better than the 90s lineup.

    NZ: Care to name any great or even good 90s NZ batsmen. Only Stephen Fleming and Mark Richardson, who were both far, far inferior to Williamson and Ross Taylor. Top 3 NZ batsmen of all time: 1) Crow 2) Kane Williamson 3) Ross Taylor. Steyn again bowled to the FAR superior lineup.

    This is the rubbish logic I'm talking about. There is so much over-glorification of the 90s. Bowling lineups were better, but batting lineups were objectively worse. It is not even a comparison.

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    Easily the best fast bowler after Marshall.

  62. #62
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    Easily among the top 3 test bowlers of all time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    Overrated. Proof that stats aren't everything. Greater bowlers than him have come and gone by.

    If you were given a list of pacers to face gun to your head, he'd be my first choice as I'd fancy my chances vs him.
    Lol, think of it this way, how many series has south Africa lost where Steyn played in all the matches since 2010. I can only think of 1 series. The man is the greatest definition of match winner in the modern era.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    Steyn is the GOAT just look at what era he bowled in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Best bowler of ALL TIME.
    Quote Originally Posted by TQ89 View Post
    Best ever. ....
    Quote Originally Posted by LastManstanding View Post
    Easily the best fast bowler after Marshall.
    And yet doesn't even make most pundits greatest all time XI. Not even close. Enough said.


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  65. #65
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    @Yossarian pundits have extreme bias to the era of 70s 80s 90s and rubbish a lot of modern cricketers exploits.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    @Yossarian pundits have extreme bias to the era of 70s 80s 90s and rubbish a lot of modern cricketers exploits.
    One could say the same of those who have only ever seen cricketers of the last couple of decades or so. At least those showing, as you say, "extreme bias to the era of 70s 80s 90s and rubbish a lot of modern cricketers exploits" probably would have seen all of them, past and current, play and thus have a basis for their opinions. Can't say the same for those who never saw the 70's, 80' and 90's generation playing whilst at the top of their game. So if anything, they're the one's not just biased, but probably also ignorant (in the sense they're only judging by what others say, or based upon some highlights on youtube etc).


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    And yet doesn't even make most pundits greatest all time XI. Not even close. Enough said.
    He will make it in the next generations pundits eleven. Same as the other players before him who got an entry in pundits great elevens after some time

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    One could say the same of those who have only ever seen cricketers of the last couple of decades or so. At least those showing, as you say, "extreme bias to the era of 70s 80s 90s and rubbish a lot of modern cricketers exploits" probably would have seen all of them, past and current, play and thus have a basis for their opinions. Can't say the same for those who never saw the 70's, 80' and 90's generation playing whilst at the top of their game. So if anything, they're the one's not just biased, but probably also ignorant (in the sense they're only judging by what others say, or based upon some highlights on youtube etc).
    It is the double standard which is the problem. Not lack of cricketing knowledge or playing experience. When you have one set of rules/criteria for judging certain player and entirely another when it suits your taste. That is when you contradict your own point of view and are seen as biased. Enough said

  69. #69
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    @TQ89 @Yossarian He would defo be in the best ever XI squad at the very least, for example he'd never get in the team ahead of a Wasim Akram an automatic pick who is a left armer due to balance beyond his greatness as a fast bowler but Steyn would be competing for his spot in the final XI with the likes of Mcgrath/Marshall/Imran/Lilee etc and it gets very competitive


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    Overrated by Indians
    Well they can't pick an Indian. 'Cause there's none to pick. Can't pick a Pakistani for obvious reasons. Most of the other greats were West Indians and the odd Australian or two, from an era when India were cannon fodder for the other teams. England hasn't had a great bowler for over 50 years unless you include Botham or Anderson. By default that then only leaves the South Africans from when they were allowed back into the international fold. And in that regard Steyn is the best of the bunch. That should explain Indians love for Steyn.


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  71. #71
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    @aliasad1998
    Forgot to add: Cricket (for the current crop of Indian cricket fans) only started since the advent of the IPL. So anything before that doesn't count - unless the player happens to have been an Indian.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    @aliasad1998
    Forgot to add: Cricket (for the current crop of Indian cricket fans) only started since the advent of the IPL. So anything before that doesn't count - unless the player happens to have been an Indian.
    Yup. I know fairly well why Indians wrongly rate certain players and disregard others. I take most indians' opinions with a grain of salt


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  73. #73
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    Current generation batsmen had it easy and bowlers also had it easy. PP Logic goes both ways depending on whatever point you want to make.

    Steyn is among the best 3-4 pacers in history for me. In batsmen dominated era, he is so far ahead of others. SA rarely lost due to Steyn turning it on few match winning spells in each series.


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    Don't know about SL, his bowling against Pakistan in Pakistan is arguably against the weakest Pakistani batting line-up ever.

    Against India in India, the majority of his matches were against legends in their twilight and he cleaned up the tail-enders as Ntini and Morkel had usually done the damage up top.

    He's a great bowler but being made out to be better than he is due to stats which aren't always a reflection of ability or skill when comparing them with other bowlers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    And yet doesn't even make most pundits greatest all time XI. Not even close. Enough said.
    I wouldn't put much weight in those XIs.

    A) Pundits are lost in the olden days where every player was supposedly Superman bowling 170 KPH non-stop.

    B) Players never gain respect until they retire.


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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadabFakhar View Post
    Don't know about SL, his bowling against Pakistan in Pakistan is arguably against the weakest Pakistani batting line-up ever.

    Against India in India, the majority of his matches were against legends in their twilight and he cleaned up the tail-enders as Ntini and Morkel had usually done the damage up top.

    He's a great bowler but being made out to be better than he is due to stats which aren't always a reflection of ability or skill when comparing them with other bowlers.
    I disagree.

    YK, Yousuf, Inzi, Misbah were playing in that series.

    Prime Sehwag (29 years old)
    Prime Dhoni (27 years old)
    Ganguly (34 years old)
    Laxman (33 years old)
    Dravid (35 years old)

    He picked up the wickets of Sehwag (twice), Dravid, Ganguly (twice). Plus cleaned up the tail in almost every innings like a robot.

    That's an incredible lineup in Indian conditions regardless of age. Dravid was the oldest but went on to play another 4 years!


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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    I wouldn't put much weight in those XIs.

    A) Pundits are lost in the olden days where every player was supposedly Superman bowling 170 KPH non-stop.

    B) Players never gain respect until they retire.
    Yawn ...

    In the modern ODI & T20 dominated era, very few Test batsmen are capable of sticking it out and playing a long innings. It's a case of Wham, Bam, Thank you Ma'am!... and out! Sure the batsmen's scores, strike rates and averages are high, but time out in the middle and balls faced are not.

    As an example, just look at the 2nd Test Eng v SA just concluded. The 2nd ranked Test batsman scored 78 at a strike rate of over 102 (unheard of for a Test batsman of yesteryear) in England's 1st innings, with England's 1st innings run rate almost 4 runs per over (again unheard of in the 70's and 80's), and yet England were all out for 205 in 51 overs! On a pitch that was not a minefield.

    As I said "Wham, Bam, Thank you Ma'am!... and out!". Averages, strike rates etc etc are all meaningless without the context.

    Most current Test batsmen will have good averages and higher strike rates. But compared with the Test batsmen of old, due to the effect of modern limited overs cricket on batting styles and techniques, most current batsmen will not even get close to Test batting line ups of the past. That means easy pickings for half-decent Test bowlers. Just look at the current Test bowler rankings to see what I mean. Now compare those names with the names on ranking lists of the past.

    On the other hand, in limited overs cricket, modern batsmen are far superior than those of the past.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    I disagree.

    YK, Yousuf, Inzi, Misbah were playing in that series.

    Prime Sehwag (29 years old)
    Prime Dhoni (27 years old)
    Ganguly (34 years old)
    Laxman (33 years old)
    Dravid (35 years old)

    He picked up the wickets of Sehwag (twice), Dravid, Ganguly (twice). Plus cleaned up the tail in almost every innings like a robot.

    That's an incredible lineup in Indian conditions regardless of age. Dravid was the oldest but went on to play another 4 years!
    Only Younis and Misbah from your list. Here's the links for the Test Matches:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/299005.html
    http://http://www.espncricinfo.com/c...ch/299004.html

    In only one match he got a fiver and that too in the fourth innings. Butt, Hafeez and Younis were his scalps of note.

    Against India, he performed well but most of his wickets were tailenders. His best perfomance came at Nagpur 2010 where he took most of his wickets against top order batsmen, South Africa had amassed a 500+ score, so hardly under any pressure to perform. This is not to disrespect him in anyway. He was a great bowler but can no way compare him against Wasim
    Last edited by ShadabFakhar; 17th July 2017 at 20:07.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Brilliant test bowler but not as good as McGrath , Ambrose, Donald, and Akram.
    Akram? Steyn is miles ahead of Akram in test. His strike rate is a world record. Akram isn't even as good as Imran

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Akram? Steyn is miles ahead of Akram in test. His strike rate is a world record. Akram isn't even as good as Imran
    Steyn is better statistically. Vinod Kambli is better than Tendulkar statistically(better average)

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