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  1. #1
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    England's batting lineup in Test cricket

    Looking at englands batting line up at moment it just doesnt look solid as a batting unit what so ever. Yes they are very strong lower middle order to bail them out in Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen etc.. however they seriously need to address the batting at the top and early middle order. They have tried out so many different players recently and pretty much all of them have had a little sucess but then endless failures. Currently watching players like Jennings who looks like a good stroke player but isnt technically great. Then you have ballance who just looks like a very limited player and in longterms isnt going to score to many big runs internationally even if hes scoring runs for fun in county cricket.

    Nick Compton, Micheal Carberry, Sam Robson, Adam Lyth, Alex Hales, Ben Duckett, Keaton Jennings, Gary Ballance, Haseeb Hameed thats alot of players that have been tried out in last year with very little sucess. In case of Hameed he has been injured and i will reserve my thoughts on him as he may come good as a test player once he regains form.

    England need to find stabilty and quality in batting order, espcially also going forward whenever cook retires as well, which not be for a few years but still the batting looks very flimsy at moment.

  2. #2
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    Stoneman, Westley and Livingstone are the 3 guys I'd be keeping an eye on/selecting.

  3. #3
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    They're still yet to replace Strauss and Trott.

    Soon enough they'll be asked to do the same for Cook, and they'd struggle there too. The bowling could well be an issue soon enough too.


    "When You Have Eliminated The Impossible, Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be The Truth!

  4. #4
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    Root should take responsibility as the best batsmen and bat at 3, Bairstow should bat at 4 and Moeen at 5. Currently, they aren't making the most of what is available- there are too many allrounders who haven't been given clear roles.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Root should take responsibility as the best batsmen and bat at 3, Bairstow should bat at 4 and Moeen at 5. Currently, they aren't making the most of what is available- there are too many allrounders who haven't been given clear roles.
    Number 4 would be considered too high for Bairstow to bat and keep the gloves. Your suggestions would also just transfer the problem from the top order to the lower order.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Stoneman, Westley and Livingstone are the 3 guys I'd be keeping an eye on/selecting.
    I am more tempted to give guys like Bopara and Ian Bell another go.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Root should take responsibility as the best batsmen and bat at 3, Bairstow should bat at 4 and Moeen at 5. Currently, they aren't making the most of what is available- there are too many allrounders who haven't been given clear roles.
    Bairstow is not solid enough batsman and no.4 in tests is too much for him..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    I am more tempted to give guys like Bopara and Ian Bell another go.
    Na, backwards steps. Bell in particular has been really struggling in the county championship this season. Gotta be looking at the guys above and then guys like Joe Clarke and Dan Lawrence as the future.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Number 4 would be considered too high for Bairstow to bat and keep the gloves. Your suggestions would also just transfer the problem from the top order to the lower order.
    He's batting at 5 currently, and given the regular collapses it's not like he is being given a chance to rest in any case. He should be okay coming in at 4.

    The point is the experienced/better batsmen should be taking more responsibility and be batting in the top order. That's to say, if you can fix the top order issues the lower order issues will be easier to fix. Bring in a batsmen for Ballance who can bat at 6, Stokes at 7, and Woakes at 8 (interchangeable). With Moeen batting at 5, drop Dawson for a better spinner. That's hardly a weak lower order.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Na, backwards steps. Bell in particular has been really struggling in the county championship this season. Gotta be looking at the guys above and then guys like Joe Clarke and Dan Lawrence as the future.
    but the newbies are not able to handle pressure of test cricket..

    may be they need to try the youngsters in ODI's first, let them establish themselves and then introduce them to test cricket...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Bairstow is not solid enough batsman and no.4 in tests is too much for him..
    Admittedly he hasn't looked great this summer in tests (so far), but he was one of England's best batsmen last summer.

    It's a tough ask for a debutant to come in at 4. Who would you suggest instead?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    but the newbies are not able to handle pressure of test cricket..

    may be they need to try the youngsters in ODI's first, let them establish themselves and then introduce them to test cricket...
    I don't think they're really pressure based issues, more technical issues. You've just got to get the right guy who has a technique that can hold up in international cricket, which Ballance has shown he hasn't got.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Admittedly he hasn't looked great this summer in tests (so far), but he was one of England's best batsmen last summer.

    It's a tough ask for a debutant to come in at 4. Who would you suggest instead?
    I'd keep Root at 4 and Bairstow at 5, bring in Stoneman or Westley at 3.

  14. #14
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    Eng batting has fallen off since the 2014 Ind Tour.....the 4-0 series defeat plus the usual hooplah about this being their best ever test team has put undue pressure on them !!!! this is the case with no Rabada ,then 3rd test onwards will be interesting when he comes bk

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Admittedly he hasn't looked great this summer in tests (so far), but he was one of England's best batsmen last summer.

    It's a tough ask for a debutant to come in at 4. Who would you suggest instead?
    Now that Saeed Ajmal doesn't play test cricket anymore, Ian Bell has a strong case for a recall..I heard that Bell has struggled in country cricket this year but he is a proven quality test player and I can still see a lot of gas left in him.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    I'd keep Root at 4 and Bairstow at 5, bring in Stoneman or Westley at 3.
    It's a even bigger ask for a debutant to come in at 3, with an ashes series around the corner.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Now that Saeed Ajmal doesn't play test cricket anymore, Ian Bell has a strong case for a recall..I heard that Bell has struggled in country cricket this year but he is a proven quality test player and I can still see a lot of gas left in him.
    I've always enjoyed watching Ian Bell play, but his recent form excludes him from consideration (as well as his age).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    It's a even bigger ask for a debutant to come in at 3, with an ashes series around the corner.
    Stoneman is an opener by trade, Westley is a number 3 by trade. If they can't handle the number 3 spot they probably don't deserve to be playing international cricket. The West Indies series coming up would give whoever got the call a good chance to get settled

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Stoneman is an opener by trade, Westley is a number 3 by trade. If they can't handle the number 3 spot they probably don't deserve to be playing international cricket. The West Indies series coming up would give whoever got the call a good chance to get settled
    Stoneman and Westley are certainly possibilities, but I don't see why Root should be protected at 4. He is the best batsmen in the team and should bat at 3. What with the regular collapses, he pretty much is anyway!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Stoneman and Westley are certainly possibilities, but I don't see why Root should be protected at 4. He is the best batsmen in the team and should bat at 3. What with the regular collapses, he pretty much is anyway!
    This logic is nonsense. If he wants to bat at 4 he can, because he is the best player and his comfort is paramount. The best player can be anywhere from 1-5 in a Test match and potentially even 7 in an ODI or T20.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketAnalyst View Post
    This logic is nonsense. If he wants to bat at 4 he can, because he is the best player and his comfort is paramount. The best player can be anywhere from 1-5 in a Test match and potentially even 7 in an ODI or T20.
    It's you who is thinking illogically. If England had a ready-made batsmen to come in at three and the top order was performing well, then sure he could bat at 4. But in case you haven't noticed, England's top-order woes are well documented and were once again on display today. In this situation, it seems to make sense for Root to bat at 3. He has the experience and he has the talent. That will allow whoever comes in to the team to bat at 4, which will ensure they can get familiar with test cricket.

    Root is more than capable at batting at 3- he has batted there before so it's hardly a role he is unfamiliar with. Plus, as I said given the number of mini-collapses he pretty much is batting at 3 already anyway.

    Cricket is a team sport and England need Root to bat at 3- his "comfort" (whatever that is supposed to mean) shouldn't override that.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    It's you who is thinking illogically. If England had a ready-made batsmen to come in at three and the top order was performing well, then sure he could bat at 4. But in case you haven't noticed, England's top-order woes are well documented and were once again on display today. In this situation, it seems to make sense for Root to bat at 3. He has the experience and he has the talent. That will allow whoever comes in to the team to bat at 4, which will ensure they can get familiar with test cricket.

    Root is more than capable at batting at 3- he has batted there before so it's hardly a role he is unfamiliar with. Plus, as I said given the number of mini-collapses he pretty much is batting at 3 already anyway.

    Cricket is a team sport and England need Root to bat at 3- his "comfort" (whatever that is supposed to mean) shouldn't override that.
    I just view it as if Root is comfortable at 4 and you're bringing in a batsman who is a career number 3 you might as well leave them in the position they have both naturally picked to bat and are comfortable at. If Westley or Stoneman come in and can't cut it at number 3 chances are they're not going to cut it at number 4 long term in international cricket either.

  23. #23
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    They need to get rid of Ballance he is just good enough. Has been given plenty of chances.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    I just view it as if Root is comfortable at 4 and you're bringing in a batsman who is a career number 3 you might as well leave them in the position they have both naturally picked to bat and are comfortable at. If Westley or Stoneman come in and can't cut it at number 3 chances are they're not going to cut it at number 4 long term in international cricket either.
    That's fair enough, and you are more than welcome to that opinion. What I don't have time for is when posters say that an idea is "nonsense" for the simple reason they disagree with it. Root's batting position is a perennial debate, and posters should have the maturity to recognise there can be a a wide range of valid opinions on the subject.

    Back to the subject matter, my point was more that Root should take some extra responsibility as a senior batsmen, rather than thinking that Westley/Stoneman aren't good enough. I just happen to think Root would do better at 3 than Westley/Stoneman would, and Westley/Stoneman would do better at four than they would at three.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    It's a even bigger ask for a debutant to come in at 3, with an ashes series around the corner.
    i reckon one of the reasons root picked balance is because he does not want to bat at 3


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    i reckon one of the reasons root picked balance is because he does not want to bat at 3
    Why would he pick Balance in order or to do that? Ballance has spent most of his career for Yorkshire at number 5. Stoneman was the lead contender alongside Ballance for the batsmans slot and he's an opener so would just as easily fit in at 3.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Why would he pick Balance in order or to do that? Ballance has spent most of his career for Yorkshire at number 5. Stoneman was the lead contender alongside Ballance for the batsmans slot and he's an opener so would just as easily fit in at 3.
    hasn't balance batted at 3 most his test career?


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  28. #28
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    England are the new Pakistan. Consistently inconsistent, prone to collapses.

    All this talk of "positive" and "aggressive" cricket is fine but you still need to graft in Tests. And nobody in this England team is willing to do that. To not bat even 100 overs in a Test is unacceptable, and this pitch on Day 4 was no minefield.

    I'd give Keaton Jennings the series (AWFUL dismissal today - could've driven a coach through the gap between his bat and pad) but Gary Ballance has to go.

    When will the penny drop for the team management that Ballance's technique is awful and he's a TTF at international level ?

    Time to draft in Mark Stoneman and drop Jennings down to 3.

  29. #29
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    Root should bat at 3 and Hameed should open up with Cook. Not sure who they can select at 4. Don't seem to be a lot of opitions for England to select in the batting department.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    hasn't balance batted at 3 most his test career?
    29 out of 42 innings yes, but the other contenders were all openers or number 3 batsmen generally anyway but not just batting at 3 to fill a gap.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    i reckon one of the reasons root picked balance is because he does not want to bat at 3
    That would certainly appear to be the case.

  32. #32
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    Telegraph who are usually pretty accurate suggesting it'll be Stoneman in for Dawson and opening with Jennings pushed down to 3 and Ballance down the order/possibly replaced by Westley, presumably with Bairstow back to 7 and Moeen back to 8.

  33. #33
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    I'd personally try out

    1. Cook
    2. Stoneman
    3. Jennings
    4. Root
    5. Ballance
    6. Bairstow
    7. Moeen
    8. Stokes
    9. Broad
    10. Wood
    11. Anderson

    It's probably a bit risky batting new guys at three, Root would be more suited, and I'm sure Cook would be able. However for now will have to do probably. I would rather get a middle order batsman in, Jennings would probably be head to head with Stoneman to keep his place in the side, and next series the best out of the two would be the second opener with Cook I imagine.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    It's you who is thinking illogically. If England had a ready-made batsmen to come in at three and the top order was performing well, then sure he could bat at 4. But in case you haven't noticed, England's top-order woes are well documented and were once again on display today. In this situation, it seems to make sense for Root to bat at 3. He has the experience and he has the talent. That will allow whoever comes in to the team to bat at 4, which will ensure they can get familiar with test cricket.

    Root is more than capable at batting at 3- he has batted there before so it's hardly a role he is unfamiliar with. Plus, as I said given the number of mini-collapses he pretty much is batting at 3 already anyway.

    Cricket is a team sport and England need Root to bat at 3- his "comfort" (whatever that is supposed to mean) shouldn't override that.
    Reducing Joe Root's performance is far more risky. He is playing very well in his comfort zone and you don't want to risk his performance dropping because it's the only thing keeping England doing well in Tests.

    When Ballance, Jennings etc are bad at batting it won't matter where they bat.

  35. #35
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    Teams for the next test :

    Nasser Hussain's xi

    Cook
    Jennings
    Root
    Westley
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Rashid
    Broad
    Wood/Roland-Jones
    Anderson

    David Lloyd's xi

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Root
    Bairstow
    Westley
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Plunkett
    Broad
    Anderson
    Crane

  36. #36
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    In England's current test line up, the best batsmen are Root, Cook and Bairstow. I don't rate Stokes that much, Moeen Ali can be vulnerable early on. Jennings scored a debut century in India so deserves till the end of this series at least but Ballance unfortunately is not international standard

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Teams for the next test :

    Nasser Hussain's xi

    Cook
    Jennings
    Root
    Westley
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Rashid
    Broad
    Wood/Roland-Jones
    Anderson

    David Lloyd's xi

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Root
    Bairstow
    Westley
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Plunkett
    Broad
    Anderson
    Crane
    Interesting that both of them put Root at 3.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Teams for the next test :

    Nasser Hussain's xi

    Cook
    Jennings
    Root
    Westley
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Rashid
    Broad
    Wood/Roland-Jones
    Anderson

    David Lloyd's xi

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Root
    Bairstow
    Westley
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Plunkett
    Broad
    Anderson
    Crane
    Source?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Stoneman and Westley are certainly possibilities, but I don't see why Root should be protected at 4. He is the best batsmen in the team and should bat at 3. What with the regular collapses, he pretty much is anyway!
    England put their best batter at #4. Compton, Gower most often, KP. The ball moves so much that #3 takes specific skills.

    I would have:

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Jennings
    Root
    Ballance
    Bairstow (w)
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

    That's until Hameed comes back to form.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    England put their best batter at #4. Compton, Gower most often, KP. The ball moves so much that #3 takes specific skills.

    I would have:

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Jennings
    Root
    Ballance
    Bairstow (w)
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

    That's until Hameed comes back to form.
    Ballance isn't good enough. Never wish injury on anyone but it may be a blessing in disguise that it's now been confirmed he's broken his finger and is out of the next test. Dawson likely to keep his spot apparently given it's the Oval.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    England put their best batter at #4. Compton, Gower most often, KP. The ball moves so much that #3 takes specific skills.

    I would have:

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Jennings
    Root
    Ballance
    Bairstow (w)
    Stokes
    Moeen
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

    That's until Hameed comes back to form.
    Different situations demand different responses- not currently blessed with the likes of Trott etc. As you said, it takes a certain skillset to bat at 3. Right now, Root is the batsmen best placed to bat at 3- Nasser and Bumble appear to agree.

    Agree re Hameed- exciting prospect.

  42. #42
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    May be Cook should move to #4. Hameed can open in his place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    May be Cook should move to #4. Hameed can open in his place.

    He's a specialist opener so why should he move down the order? Also Root wants to bat at 4.

    Cook's game doesn't suit the middle order.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Different situations demand different responses- not currently blessed with the likes of Trott etc. As you said, it takes a certain skillset to bat at 3. Right now, Root is the batsmen best placed to bat at 3- Nasser and Bumble appear to agree.

    Agree re Hameed- exciting prospect.
    I wouldn't sacrifice a strength (Root at #4) to plug a weakness. We ruined a world-class opener in Alec Stewart that way, making him keep wicket.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I wouldn't sacrifice a strength (Root at #4) to plug a weakness. We ruined a world-class opener in Alec Stewart that way, making him keep wicket.
    I personally don't see it as sacrificing a strength, but each to his own. Looking forward to see how the new line-up fares at the Oval. Hopefully they drop Dawson.

  46. #46
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    The holes in englands batting line up are getting bigger and bigger.

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