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  1. #1
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    English batsmen and the hype machine

    Ballance, Jennings and a few others in recent times have been mentioned as the 'next big thing' in English cricket but it seems that so far they have been found wanting.

    Do English cricketers get overhyped or is it right to hype them up as they are the real deal?



  2. #2
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    Not sure I remember either of Jennings or Ballance in particular being hyped as the next big thing.

    Ballance initially came into the sides with ridiculously good stats so there was probably a higher expectation but he has his obvious technical flaw.
    Last edited by HitWicket; 17th July 2017 at 20:15.

  3. #3
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    Agree with @HitWicket. Ballance and Jennigs were hardly hyped.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Ballance, Jennings and a few others in recent times have been mentioned as the 'next big thing' in English cricket but it seems that so far they have been found wanting.

    Do English cricketers get overhyped or is it right to hype them up as they are the real deal?
    Not as I recall either.

    Though I think Hameed will be the real deal in time.

  5. #5
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    There was never much hype around those 2 batters that I can remember.

    All the hype has been around Root (absolutely justified) and of course Stokes who seems very hit and miss.

  6. #6
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    lol who hyped those two? The only overhyped English player is Stokes.

  7. #7
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    Cook and Root are the only world class batsmen for England.

    Bairstow, Moeen and Stokes are good batsmen but have weaknesses.

    The rest of the batting is rubbish.

  8. #8
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    Don't think Balance was hyped.

    He was seen more of a grinder that could accumulate scores despite his iffy technique.

    The problem is he hasn't improved on his technique nor does he look mentally tough against good bowlers or has the hand eye co ordination to get out of it.

    Jennings far too early to say but def has some problems against the moving ball.

    Stokes though has been inconsistent and doesn't always live to the hype.

  9. #9
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    Why the batsmen alone? Even the bowlers aren't spared.

    A couple of good spells at home and they're on their way to becoming ATGs. Unfortunately, they then end up like Tim Bresnan or Steven Finn.

  10. #10
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    No one hyped Jennings, didn't even hear of him until I found out he was playing the SA tests lol.

    Ballance more to do with the fact he has an incredible domestic record. Especially in a country where domestic averages tend to be on the low side. He also tasted early success.

    England overhyped their players in the past, they accepted bowling mediocrity especially. That's changed now mid 30 bowling averages aren't accepted anymore.

    I think England should stick with the guys that average high 40s/50 in domestic. It's clearly very hard to average that in England domestic, there must be something special about you to do so. Time and time again they go and try out some new guy who averages mid 30s with the bat and a stellar recent season. It usually doesn't work out, in fact I struggle to remember a time it's worked out.

    If you look at the guys performing in the England team, it's Root, Cook, Bairstow, all who have done well in domestic (and good overall domestic records). Why I'm tempted to give Ballance a few more goes albeit down the order.

  11. #11
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    Haseeb has been hyped. A pity he is struggling in country cricket. I wonder if he is going to be one these players that excels in test cricket but isn't so great playing county cricket.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssuhaide View Post
    Haseeb has been hyped. A pity he is struggling in country cricket. I wonder if he is going to be one these players that excels in test cricket but isn't so great playing county cricket.
    Haseeb has not been overhyped. He's 20 and shown the temperament of someone who has been playing test cricket for a while. That is why his performances were deservedly praised. He is suffering a dip in form (perhaps from increased expectations) but he certainly has the skill set. An exciting prospect if given the support he needs.

  13. #13
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    England and Australia always hype their current and former players. Since their commentary is better, everyone listens to them and buy into the hype.

  14. #14
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    They r as hyped as the CT2017 winning squad..Apart from Babar Azam & Azhar Ali,no1 in this Pak lineup is properly equipped to play Test Cricket in all Conditions !!!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tejamainhoon View Post
    They r as hyped as the CT2017 winning squad..Apart from Babar Azam & Azhar Ali,no1 in this Pak lineup is properly equipped to play Test Cricket in all Conditions !!!!
    Fair point.
    I think Sami Aslam could be genuine test quality if they groom him properly and forget Shan Masood.

    Asad Shafiq and Sarfraz are fine for tests.
    We need 2 more test bstsmen.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    No one hyped Jennings, didn't even hear of him until I found out he was playing the SA tests lol.

    Ballance more to do with the fact he has an incredible domestic record. Especially in a country where domestic averages tend to be on the low side. He also tasted early success.

    England overhyped their players in the past, they accepted bowling mediocrity especially. That's changed now mid 30 bowling averages aren't accepted anymore.

    I think England should stick with the guys that average high 40s/50 in domestic. It's clearly very hard to average that in England domestic, there must be something special about you to do so. Time and time again they go and try out some new guy who averages mid 30s with the bat and a stellar recent season. It usually doesn't work out, in fact I struggle to remember a time it's worked out.

    If you look at the guys performing in the England team, it's Root, Cook, Bairstow, all who have done well in domestic (and good overall domestic records). Why I'm tempted to give Ballance a few more goes albeit down the order.
    You have to note that not every pitch in England is the stereotypicsl English seamer.

    In recent years, with improved drainage facilities and the scrspping of the toss to encoursge drier, more spin-friendly wickets, English pitches are becoming increasingly flatter and slower. There are exceptions like the Riverside where Durham (the northernmost county) play which is usually seam friendly. Hence why former Durham opener Mark Stoneman has such a low average.

    The quality of bowling attacks have declined too. Therefore mediocre, technically flawed batsmen can rack up runs freely in county cricket.

  17. #17
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    The only world class player they have is Root.

    However, Roy and Hales are one of the best LOI openers around.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Ballance, Jennings and a few others in recent times have been mentioned as the 'next big thing' in English cricket but it seems that so far they have been found wanting.

    Do English cricketers get overhyped or is it right to hype them up as they are the real deal?
    Those are not overhyped,it's Ben chokes who is overhyped.


    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

  19. #19
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    Stokes played a brilliant innings yesterday but when Jonathan Agnew comes out with "If you take into consideration that he [Stokes] can be a correct batsman, an annihilator, a pace bowler and a wonderful fielder, then he is really is four cricketers in one", I really do despair.

  20. #20
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    There was a lot of hype behind Gary Ballance and it was justified. He came into the squad with a great bunch of scores and stats in County and proved it in the international arena. Had a start as good as anyones and I remember him averaging in the 60's, so you can't say it was false hype. He just went the wrong way.

    As for Jennings, there wasn't a lot of hype to begin with but whatever it was, there was good reason for it, he was South African, his family had a rich cricketing history and he justified the hype with a ton in his very first game in India of all places. To say he's done with is a farce. I'd still hype the lad.

  21. #21
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    Not a lot of people really listen to Aggers though. Aggers is more in the slightly cringe-comedy bracket of Botham, Gower and Blofeld.

    Test Match Special is not the show it used to be without the succinct contributions of the late, great Christopher Martin-Jenkins.

    Atherton, Hussain, Willis and Boycott are the top English pundits. They generally offer a balanced and informed view of all cricketers, including the English players. Although sometimes with Willis, a bit less balanced - LOL.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Not a lot of people really listen to Aggers though. Aggers is more in the slightly cringe-comedy bracket of Botham, Gower and Blofeld.

    Test Match Special is not the show it used to be without the succinct contributions of the late, great Christopher Martin-Jenkins.

    Atherton, Hussain, Willis and Boycott are the top English pundits. They generally offer a balanced and informed view of all cricketers, including the English players. Although sometimes with Willis, a bit less balanced - LOL.
    I'm about to do a TMS post. Remember, it's radio. It's meant to be entertaining.

    Mind you, Stokes is a huge talent. Aggers is pretty much on the money.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Stokes played a brilliant innings yesterday but when Jonathan Agnew comes out with "If you take into consideration that he [Stokes] can be a correct batsman, an annihilator, a pace bowler and a wonderful fielder, then he is really is four cricketers in one", I really do despair.
    He's a top six test batter who can destroy attacks on his day, reminiscent of Botham. He is an outstanding catcher. He's a capable test fourth seamer. I would like to see him tighten up his bowling with fewer four-balls, then maybe he can come on first change.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Not a lot of people really listen to Aggers though. Aggers is more in the slightly cringe-comedy bracket of Botham, Gower and Blofeld.

    Test Match Special is not the show it used to be without the succinct contributions of the late, great Christopher Martin-Jenkins.

    Atherton, Hussain, Willis and Boycott are the top English pundits. They generally offer a balanced and informed view of all cricketers, including the English players. Although sometimes with Willis, a bit less balanced - LOL.
    I agree with everything else you have said, but an awful lot of people do consider Aggers to be a top pundit (for whatever reason).

    In any case, his statement is both silly and unnecessary (and doesn't actually make sense).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    He's a top six test batter who can destroy attacks on his day, reminiscent of Botham. He is an outstanding catcher. He's a capable test fourth seamer. I would like to see him tighten up his bowling with fewer four-balls, then maybe he can come on first change.
    My bone of contention is when Agnew says Stokes is "four cricketers in one"- please don't tell me you seriously agree with that statement?

    By the way, Stokes has shown promise but he is certainly not Botham. Don't take my word for it- Botham has said as much himself.

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