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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Azhar Ali is older than Alastair Cook and AB de Villiers were when they retired.

    His reputation is built on runs in Australia at the age of 31.

    Heís now about to have his 34th birthday and is failing badly in similar conditions in South Africa.

    What is the point of keeping in the team a failing geriatric batsman?
    Failed in the 4 important innings in SA when Imam, Shan, Asad and Babar all got scores.

    Idc if he scores in the 3rd Test. Series is lost. Azhar has been awful for the past year and a half. Based on performance, he doesn't deserve selection.

  2. #242
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    Swap him out for Abid Ali.

  3. #243
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    Looked a walking wicket in england and same here in SA. Wasnt much bettee in UAE, been a huge failure since misyou retirement.

  4. #244
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    Azhar Ali offers nothing. We need to get rid of old sheeps like Asad, Azhar and Sarfraz. Time to move on.

  5. #245
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    This is why I think that Azhar Ali needs to be told by Mickey Arthur and Inzamam that his career is over.

    This is his innings-by-innings Test record from the retirement of Misbah and Younis (when he was aged 32.3 years old) to the present day (aged 33.11).

    v Sri Lanka at home
    85 + 0
    59 + 17

    v Ireland away
    4 + 2

    v England away
    50 + 4
    2 + 11

    v Australia at home
    18 + 4
    15 + 64

    v New Zealand at home
    22 + 65
    81
    134 + 5

    v South Africa away
    36 + 0
    2 + 6

    So since Misbah and Younis retired, Azhar Ali's record as a 32 and 33 year old is:
    12 Tests
    23 Innings
    1 Century
    5 Fifties
    15 Failures
    Average 29.82

    You can keep a promising youngster in the team when he's averaging less than 30 in 2 years of Test cricket - it's how Babar Azam was invested in.

    But when you are 34 years old - and Azhar Ali will be in 43 days - then I'm sorry, if your output in 12 Tests against 6 different teams is to average less than 30, when you're meant to be the senior batsman, IT's TIME TO RETIRE OR BE DISCARDED.
    Last edited by Junaids; 7th January 2019 at 14:38.

  6. #246
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    Azhar has always been a mediocre player whose career was built on his exceptional temperament. The pinnacle of his career was the 2016-17 season, when he was at his physical peak which he combined with his 6-7 years of international experience to score heavily.

    However, he doesn't have the reflexes anymore to cope with fast bowling and he is also losing his mental edge. The lapses in concentration are getting more and more frequent. Our next Test assignment is nearly a year away, and this is the perfect time to move on from him for good.

    After the inevitable 3-0 in South Africa, they will surely be some changes. I hope that along with Sarfraz, he is one of the leading casualties. However, I fear that he might score a dead rubber innings to save his career. Pretty much what Shafiq did in the second innings in Cape Town.

  7. #247
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    So comparing the 34 year old Azhar Ali with the 33 year old Asad Shafiq since Misbah and Younis retired:

    AZHAR ALI
    12 Tests
    23 Innings
    1 Century
    5 Fifties
    15 Failures
    Average 29.82


    ASAD SHAFIQ
    12 Tests
    22 Innings
    2 Centuries
    4 Fifties
    11 Failures
    Average 37.59

    Asad Shafiq infuriates me.

    But since Younis and Misbah retired, the 34 years old player (Azhar) averages 29.82, while Shafiq - who is a year younger - averages 37.59.

    It's time to move on from them both, but Shafiq has just about earned another year.

    But Azhar? He's got to go.

  8. #248
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    azhar will most likely score a 50 and retain his place.

    No sir , asad and azhar wont go easy.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    azhar will most likely score a 50 and retain his place.

    No sir , asad and azhar wont go easy.
    As much as it pains me to say, its true!

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Azhar has always been a mediocre player whose career was built on his exceptional temperament. The pinnacle of his career was the 2016-17 season, when he was at his physical peak which he combined with his 6-7 years of international experience to score heavily.

    However, he doesn't have the reflexes anymore to cope with fast bowling and he is also losing his mental edge. The lapses in concentration are getting more and more frequent. Our next Test assignment is nearly a year away, and this is the perfect time to move on from him for good.

    After the inevitable 3-0 in South Africa, they will surely be some changes. I hope that along with Sarfraz, he is one of the leading casualties. However, I fear that he might score a dead rubber innings to save his career. Pretty much what Shafiq did in the second innings in Cape Town.
    Good points.

    Let's see how Sarfraz Ahmed has stepped up since Younis and Misbah retired...…..

    SARFRAZ AHMED
    12 Tests
    21 Innings
    0 Centuries
    4 Fifties
    16 Failures
    Average 25.90

    The same Tale of the Tape which sees Azhar Ali as an underperforming Thirtysomething who needs to be retired applies equally to Sarfraz Ahmed.

    I've written before, players get phased out after the age of 30 if and when their performance start to decline.

    When you have the dire numbers that Azhar Ali has at the ages of 32 and 33, or that Sarfraz Ahmed has at almost 32 years of age, then you can't be in the team.

    Sarfraz is only 31 and he's the skipper. He should be dropped, but he can still earn back his place in the team by his domestic performances.

    But Azhar is about to be 34 and he's averaging less than 30. He's got to go.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    So comparing the 34 year old Azhar Ali with the 33 year old Asad Shafiq since Misbah and Younis retired:

    AZHAR ALI
    12 Tests
    23 Innings
    1 Century
    5 Fifties
    15 Failures
    Average 29.82


    ASAD SHAFIQ
    12 Tests
    22 Innings
    2 Centuries
    4 Fifties
    11 Failures
    Average 37.59

    Asad Shafiq infuriates me.

    But since Younis and Misbah retired, the 34 years old player (Azhar) averages 29.82, while Shafiq - who is a year younger - averages 37.59.

    It's time to move on from them both, but Shafiq has just about earned another year.

    But Azhar? He's got to go.
    Seems to me that Shafiq scores his runs in losing causes much more often than Azhar, or at a point when they are meaningless.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    azhar will most likely score a 50 and retain his place.

    No sir , asad and azhar wont go easy.
    We got used to Misbah and Younis failing in 4 or 5 out of every 6 innings per tour, then saving themselves with one good innings.

    And so Pakistan lost 6 of their 8 away Tests between July 2016 and January 2017.

    This Culture of Non-Performance needs to be broken.

    Even Asad Shafiq would be really lucky to survive in any other country at his age with these performances. But Azhar and Sarfraz? Their retention is absolutely bonkers!

  13. #253
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    The problem we have here is that the next series is too far away and all will be forgotten and forgiven by then and you can bet your top dollar that even PP will have forgotten how azhar did in south africa series.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    Seems to me that Shafiq scores his runs in losing causes much more often than Azhar, or at a point when they are meaningless.
    Possibly. But seriously, can you keep a 34 year old who should be the leader of the batting line-up, but is averaging less than 30 since the grown-ups left?

  15. #255
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    In the longer format from 2011 - 2017 he has averaged 40+ in every year (except 2013). In 2018 he averaged 30.41 from 8 tests and even when he scores he's merely accumulating useless runs. The way he batted in that first NZ test was unforgivable really, which really magnified his lack of confidence and batting skills. Also he has quite mediocre for Somerset after a great start, so although he's been a good servant of Pakistan cricket, he is simply past his sell by date. Time to move on.

    The only thing I can say in his defence is that should have been opening after Sarfraz took over, given this is the spot where has performed the best. After all ball blunting is what he does best. He performed admirably as an opener in Australia featuring a MCG double hundred and he's also scored a triple hundred in the D/N test against WI from the same position in the batting order. He also scored a decent ton in Edgbaston as well. The question is why change something that works? - especially for a batsman who was expected to lead from the front after MisYou. He'll be 34 in Feb and I can't expect him to come back from this - it's all too late now...
    Last edited by topspin; 7th January 2019 at 15:19.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    We got used to Misbah and Younis failing in 4 or 5 out of every 6 innings per tour, then saving themselves with one good innings.

    And so Pakistan lost 6 of their 8 away Tests between July 2016 and January 2017.

    This Culture of Non-Performance needs to be broken.

    Even Asad Shafiq would be really lucky to survive in any other country at his age with these performances. But Azhar and Sarfraz? Their retention is absolutely bonkers!
    They absolutely must go but if you know how pakistan cricket and the cricket board work then you know in your heart that these guys are not going anywhere.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    The problem we have here is that the next series is too far away and all will be forgotten and forgiven by then and you can bet your top dollar that even PP will have forgotten how azhar did in south africa series.
    And what he didn't do against Ireland. And England. And Australia.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    And what he didn't do against Ireland. And England. And Australia.
    Even before the series began i had the same views you have , we can not really expect our selectors to do the right thing. The seniority culture has been killing pakistan cricket for long , hafeez played two series where a young guy could have started his career well and right before the styen test he retired.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Good points.

    Let's see how Sarfraz Ahmed has stepped up since Younis and Misbah retired...…..

    SARFRAZ AHMED
    12 Tests
    21 Innings
    0 Centuries
    4 Fifties
    16 Failures
    Average 25.90

    The same Tale of the Tape which sees Azhar Ali as an underperforming Thirtysomething who needs to be retired applies equally to Sarfraz Ahmed.

    I've written before, players get phased out after the age of 30 if and when their performance start to decline.

    When you have the dire numbers that Azhar Ali has at the ages of 32 and 33, or that Sarfraz Ahmed has at almost 32 years of age, then you can't be in the team.

    Sarfraz is only 31 and he's the skipper. He should be dropped, but he can still earn back his place in the team by his domestic performances.

    But Azhar is about to be 34 and he's averaging less than 30. He's got to go.
    The succession plan of Younis and Misbah was bound to fail. Both Azhar and Shafiq were 30+ when the former retired, and it wasn't going to be long before the successors had to be replaced too. However, players in the right age bracket like Umar Akmal, Shehzad, Maqsood and Sami Aslam kept squandering opportunities.

    Shan Masood himself took half a decade to become a Test class player.

    I agree with you that Umar was axed prematurely from the Test team, but it was more of a function of his mode of dismissals rather than the output. His fate was sealed when he charged down the wicket in Abu Dhabi against Paul Harris for an ugly slog and was dismissed for 3 on a 500+ wicket.

    He was not showing any temperament for Test cricket with his cross batted shots and inability to leave the ball outside the off-stump, and it wasn't until this season that he finally exhibited some maturity. At this stage, the selectors need to contemplate giving him one final opportunity.

    I would drop Azhar immediately, move Babar to number three, play Shafiq at four for a year (drop him for good after he inevitably fails in Australia 12 months from now), and play Umar at number five.

    The key to salvaging Umar's Test career at this stage is to ensure that he does not play a single ODI or T20I at least two years into his comeback.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The succession plan of Younis and Misbah was bound to fail. Both Azhar and Shafiq were 30+ when the former retired, and it wasn't going to be long before the successors had to be replaced too.

    I would drop Azhar immediately, move Babar to number three, play Shafiq at four for a year (drop him for good after he inevitably fails in Australia 12 months from now), and play Umar at number five.

    The key to salvaging Umar's Test career at this stage is to ensure that he does not play a single ODI or T20I at least two years into his comeback.
    That sounds like a really good plan.

  21. #261
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    Biggest choker to ever play Tests for Pakistan.

  22. #262
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    He's turning 34 next month, better late then never to get rid.

  23. #263
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    Abid Ali should be considered as a replacement.

  24. #264
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    He has another 5-7 years left like Misbah.

  25. #265
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    Azhar Aliís average since Misbah and Younis retired is now down to 28.58.

    Why is he still in the team at his age when he is providing such terrible returns?

  26. #266
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    Time to day goodbye to Azhar Ali

    When ever he has at the crease he lacks technique to play straight.

    Very poor investment.

    Time to bring Saud or Abid Ali or even anyone who can show some grit out there.

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Abid Ali should be considered as a replacement.
    How old is he? If over 30 then we should look someone under 25 years of age.

  28. #268
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    Needs to go.

  29. #269
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    Goodbye Azhar Ali

  30. #270
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    By tomorrow a Pper will be calling for Azhar to be made captain and replace Sarfraz.

    This member @Mamoon will say this is the best we have. Even though all around the wrold the best are replaced if they don't perform well.

    One of the best bottler in the team. His unconvincing slip catching cost Pakistan 2 wickets [and matches] in this series
    Last edited by Khwaja78; 11th January 2019 at 21:08.

  31. #271
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    People target Shafiq but conveniently forget Azhar Ali has been much worse

  32. #272
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    Azhar has been the most disappointing player post MisYou. He is mentally weak and not fit to be a leader of a batting line-up. And most here wanted Sarfraz to be replaced by Azhar.

  33. #273
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    The con job Azhar Ali put on for the last 10 years must be put to an end immediately

    The guy was never an international quality player, he at best will always be a leg spinner turned batsman, he has significantly punched above his weight throughout his career and can pay eternal gratitude to Misbah ul Haq for giving him such unpressurized backing and selection because he suited the exact brand of cricket he loved otherwise a captain like Kohli would have seen through his useless night watchman style 30, 40, 50 of 200 plus deliveries.

    Pakistan cannot have a so called senior batsman looking so out of place, depth in international cricket. Besides he retired from ODI Cricket because of his knee problem, I was observing him run in the field and his running is very slow as if he is trying to put very little stress on that knee. I heard rumours that doctors had already told him he doesn't have much long left in international cricket and will have to monitor his workload.

    Overall it makes sense for the PCB to move on.

  34. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The guy was never an international quality player, he at best will always be a leg spinner turned batsman, he has significantly punched above his weight throughout his career and can pay eternal gratitude to Misbah ul Haq for giving him such unpressurized backing and selection because he suited the exact brand of cricket he loved otherwise a captain like Kohli would have seen through his useless night watchman style 30, 40, 50 of 200 plus deliveries.

    Pakistan cannot have a so called senior batsman looking so out of place, depth in international cricket. Besides he retired from ODI Cricket because of his knee problem, I was observing him run in the field and his running is very slow as if he is trying to put very little stress on that knee. I heard rumours that doctors had already told him he doesn't have much long left in international cricket and will have to monitor his workload.

    Overall it makes sense for the PCB to move on.
    You don't score a triple or a double in Australia if you aren't international quality.

    He's just not mentally strong enough to carry the tag of a senior player. Babar or Haris have to step up and take responsibility, and watch Azhar and Asad play well in their shadows.

  35. #275
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    Watch out for a much angry session by Ramiz Raja on his youtube channel.

    In last hour SA commentators Pollock and others were mocking Pakistani seniors saying these players play for their places than the country. So shameful and pathetic the whole world knows this and PCB still silent backing the selectors and seniors who are pulling the nation down.

  36. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    How old is he? If over 30 then we should look someone under 25 years of age.
    Abid is the best performing opener in the last two seasons of QEA Trophy along with Fakhar. He is 31 so we can get 3-4 years out of him until we find someone younger.

  37. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    People target Shafiq but conveniently forget Azhar Ali has been much worse
    They should be both be targeted in equal measure however Shafiq has probably been the most useless investment of all players I've seen play 50 tests+.

    The guy was so timid he had to sent a nightwatchman - which is fine if Abbas was a good number 8 or 9 but he's a genuine number 11.

    Averaging under 40 when you play half of your games on the deadest wickets on Earth is inexcusable and doesn't meet the threshold for an international quality player who has been capped for over 60 tests.

  38. #278
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    Azhar was always a limited batsman, but he enjoyed excellent years for his sheer willingness to protect his wicket. I don't think he is mentally week, rather that's his only strength I would say and he has come up to this level for his value for wicket mentality.

    Now, he is facing what every such limited player will face when into mid 30s & to be honest, I believe he is closer to 40. Batsmen with great technique & skills (shot making ability), can survive till mid to late 30s, but they are hardly the batsman in their mid 30s like their late 20s. Sanga & YK are rare examples (in past, Gooch was best probably between 35-40), but more or less Azhar has passed that critical age, this decline was expected, only that it's been at an alarming rate. I thought, he can serve another few years as opener, but not likely so. PAK's next Test in 10 months later, and I don't see him surviving another AUS tour (he'll play for another few years for sure, that has been the case for every senior player).

  39. #279
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    Mickey screwed up badly moving him away from the opening slot. Shouldn’t play if they’re not going to open with him.

  40. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Abid is the best performing opener in the last two seasons of QEA Trophy along with Fakhar. He is 31 so we can get 3-4 years out of him until we find someone younger.
    Come on!!!!!

    He is in his last purple patch -by the time he settles into Test side (remember, next Test is in OCT), he'll show same Azhar Ali syndrome. Abid was definitely hard done by, but that was 6-7 years back (I posted his career stats by year in his thread) - now, it's time to bring officially U23 players. We can only hope that the investment in Imam earns some return.

  41. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The guy was never an international quality player, he at best will always be a leg spinner turned batsman, he has significantly punched above his weight throughout his career and can pay eternal gratitude to Misbah ul Haq for giving him such unpressurized backing and selection because he suited the exact brand of cricket he loved otherwise a captain like Kohli would have seen through his useless night watchman style 30, 40, 50 of 200 plus deliveries.

    Pakistan cannot have a so called senior batsman looking so out of place, depth in international cricket. Besides he retired from ODI Cricket because of his knee problem, I was observing him run in the field and his running is very slow as if he is trying to put very little stress on that knee. I heard rumours that doctors had already told him he doesn't have much long left in international cricket and will have to monitor his workload.

    Overall it makes sense for the PCB to move on.
    Ok as per your standards this is a typically OTT post. Was Azhar a poor and ineffective batsman for the first 7-8 years of his career? No way, he was a good, stabilising player who was consistent and once he got the knack of scoring Test 100s, was able to make daddy hundreds and in 2016 was regarded as one of the best Test batsmen in the world. Has Azhar been poor and ineffective in the last year and a half? Yes he has, I don't know if it's fitness, age or any other reason why he's regressed but he has and he's no longer good enough to play international cricket - he needs to be dropped and at this stage I'm not sure if he has the will to make a comeback.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  42. #282
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    A waste of a batsmen at number 3, his performances are getting worse. Needs to be dropped for next series vs SL.

  43. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boi View Post
    Mickey screwed up badly moving him away from the opening slot. Shouldn’t play if they’re not going to open with him.
    Today he come into bat in the 2nd or 3rd over... how is that remarkably different from opening?


    Heck if anything he should have found it easier as number three than as opener, he is failing like no tomorrow at 3 he may do even worse as opener.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  44. #284
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    Good Luck Replacing Azhar Ali, we dont even have a single upcoming batsman to bring in the side. Although Azhar is far batter than Asad Shafiq. It is Asad Shafiq who should go first.

  45. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketAXEpert View Post
    Good Luck Replacing Azhar Ali, we dont even have a single upcoming batsman to bring in the side. Although Azhar is far batter than Asad Shafiq. It is Asad Shafiq who should go first.
    Can we at least try? At this point Saad Ali, Saud Shakeel and Fawad Alam all deserve a go over these two.

  46. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The succession plan of Younis and Misbah was bound to fail. Both Azhar and Shafiq were 30+ when the former retired, and it wasn't going to be long before the successors had to be replaced too. However, players in the right age bracket like Umar Akmal, Shehzad, Maqsood and Sami Aslam kept squandering opportunities.

    Shan Masood himself took half a decade to become a Test class player.

    I agree with you that Umar was axed prematurely from the Test team, but it was more of a function of his mode of dismissals rather than the output. His fate was sealed when he charged down the wicket in Abu Dhabi against Paul Harris for an ugly slog and was dismissed for 3 on a 500+ wicket.

    He was not showing any temperament for Test cricket with his cross batted shots and inability to leave the ball outside the off-stump, and it wasn't until this season that he finally exhibited some maturity. At this stage, the selectors need to contemplate giving him one final opportunity.

    I would drop Azhar immediately, move Babar to number three, play Shafiq at four for a year (drop him for good after he inevitably fails in Australia 12 months from now), and play Umar at number five.

    The key to salvaging Umar's Test career at this stage is to ensure that he does not play a single ODI or T20I at least two years into his comeback.
    @Mamoon

    THIS is one great idea.

    I have always believed that had UA gotten even 2 back to back series in UAE test matches he would have been not only test but also better batsman overall. He absolutely did not derver to be dropped from tests in 2011, @Junaids has explained this very well over last 18 months or so.

  47. #287
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    His feet are going no where. He's clearly struggling with the short ball and is 3xpecting every delivery to be a short one and is camping on his back foot.

  48. #288
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    Azhar was always an average batsmen to being with - he just had a brief purple patch in 2015/2016

    Now he is probably above 35 and well past being a productive national cricketer

    I think there is a solid chance we don't see him after this test

  49. #289
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    On second thoughts having seen Shafiq v Azhar Ali average comparison post MisYou, it is Azhar Ali who needs to be given the boot first as he's not only performed worse (by an average of almost 10 runs) but also is a few years older and a stroke less wonder.

    It won't be ideal to drop Shafiq and Azhar Ali at the same time as this may end up destabilising the batting even further. Azhar needs to be dropped from the XI immediately.

  50. #290
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    People not to stop being so down.

    Heís still young and inexperienced. He will learn as he gets older and gets more game time. Heís s youngster with a great start and a bright future ahead of him with runs and glory.

  51. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The succession plan of Younis and Misbah was bound to fail. Both Azhar and Shafiq were 30+ when the former retired, and it wasn't going to be long before the successors had to be replaced too. However, players in the right age bracket like Umar Akmal, Shehzad, Maqsood and Sami Aslam kept squandering opportunities.

    Shan Masood himself took half a decade to become a Test class player.

    I agree with you that Umar was axed prematurely from the Test team, but it was more of a function of his mode of dismissals rather than the output. His fate was sealed when he charged down the wicket in Abu Dhabi against Paul Harris for an ugly slog and was dismissed for 3 on a 500+ wicket.

    He was not showing any temperament for Test cricket with his cross batted shots and inability to leave the ball outside the off-stump, and it wasn't until this season that he finally exhibited some maturity. At this stage, the selectors need to contemplate giving him one final opportunity.

    I would drop Azhar immediately, move Babar to number three, play Shafiq at four for a year (drop him for good after he inevitably fails in Australia 12 months from now), and play Umar at number five.

    The key to salvaging Umar's Test career at this stage is to ensure that he does not play a single ODI or T20I at least two years into his comeback.
    POTW

    Great insight and analysis. Very good points on Umar Akmal. I agree he needs to stay away from t20 for a while.

  52. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The succession plan of Younis and Misbah was bound to fail. Both Azhar and Shafiq were 30+ when the former retired, and it wasn't going to be long before the successors had to be replaced too. However, players in the right age bracket like Umar Akmal, Shehzad, Maqsood and Sami Aslam kept squandering opportunities.

    Shan Masood himself took half a decade to become a Test class player.

    I agree with you that Umar was axed prematurely from the Test team, but it was more of a function of his mode of dismissals rather than the output. His fate was sealed when he charged down the wicket in Abu Dhabi against Paul Harris for an ugly slog and was dismissed for 3 on a 500+ wicket.

    He was not showing any temperament for Test cricket with his cross batted shots and inability to leave the ball outside the off-stump, and it wasn't until this season that he finally exhibited some maturity. At this stage, the selectors need to contemplate giving him one final opportunity.

    I would drop Azhar immediately, move Babar to number three, play Shafiq at four for a year (drop him for good after he inevitably fails in Australia 12 months from now), and play Umar at number five.

    The key to salvaging Umar's Test career at this stage is to ensure that he does not play a single ODI or T20I at least two years into his comeback.
    My only concern with this is I feel we need Umar Akmal in the WC. This idea suggests to me he is not mature enough to adjust to different formats? Unless obviously you feel he is destined to fail in the tournament where the stakes are high?

    From 2010 WT20 up until 2014 WT20 he was Pakistan's gun batsman in ICC events. It was unfortunate how he regressed in the 2015 WC and the WT20 the year after.
    Last edited by topspin; 11th January 2019 at 22:54.

  53. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    On second thoughts having seen Shafiq v Azhar Ali average comparison post MisYou, it is Azhar Ali who needs to be given the boot first as he's not only performed worse (by an average of almost 10 runs) but also is a few years older and a stroke less wonder.

    It won't be ideal to drop Shafiq and Azhar Ali at the same time as this may end up destabilising the batting even further. Azhar needs to be dropped from the XI immediately.
    These are facts, but the way Asad gets trashed on here it's like he's a bad player. He's an average player on an average team.

    Azhar Ali can do no wrong to some.

  54. #294
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    Drop him for good.

  55. #295
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    He needs to be dropped. Lack of ability and shot range has caught up with him.

  56. #296
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    Averages 16 in south africa after 11 innings. Pathetic.

    You want experience on tough tours and thats what azhar ali gives us on tough tours. Last year scored 67 in 4 innings in england. Pakistan need to start giving chances to young guys.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  57. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    Averages 16 in south africa after 11 innings. Pathetic.

    You want experience on tough tours and thats what azhar ali gives us on tough tours. Last year scored 67 in 4 innings in england. Pakistan need to start giving chances to young guys.
    Ramiz Raja in the post match section even mentioned that Pakistan needs to start taking tough decisions and get into the habit of taking tough decisions, you are here to play international cricket and most importantly win matches for your country. There is no room for emotions in selections, it does not matter whether someone has played 60-70 test matches, if he is not in good form he needs to be benched and make way for someone fresh and in good form. Lol, the only thing he says which is correct.

    Look at India now, there are no emotions or loyalties in selection, it is all about what is best for the team. Kohli may not have made the perfect or best decisions as captain but he has made them keeping in mind what is best for the country. On various occasions he has dropped Dhawan, Sharma, Ashwin, Ishant Sharma, Murali Vijay and even Pujara depending on their current form, whether they have chinks they needed to correct and work on, depending on the pitch conditions e.t.c.

    I can guarantee you Kohli would not have tolerated Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Sarfaraz Ahmed's lack of consistency. This is what Pakistan needs to start doing and Pakistan did the right thing by benching Yasir for Shadab, it is all about current form, pitch conditions and what the best balance of the team which is needed to win the game.

  58. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    Averages 16 in south africa after 11 innings. Pathetic.

    You want experience on tough tours and thats what azhar ali gives us on tough tours. Last year scored 67 in 4 innings in england. Pakistan need to start giving chances to young guys.
    Azhar has a pretty bad backfoot game, evident by the lack of confidence in cutting or pulling the ball. It's no surprise he has struggled massively in South Africa, where the bounce in uneven. He pre-meditates a lot, which works in the UAE, but won't in South Africa.

  59. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    My only concern with this is I feel we need Umar Akmal in the WC. This idea suggests to me he is not mature enough to adjust to different formats? Unless obviously you feel he is destined to fail in the tournament where the stakes are high?

    From 2010 WT20 up until 2014 WT20 he was Pakistan's gun batsman in ICC events. It was unfortunate how he regressed in the 2015 WC and the WT20 the year after.
    I think Umar is simply not intelligent enough to juggle Tests and LOIs at this point. Bringing him back in all three formats at the same time is very risky, and one flop comeback by Umar at this stage of his career will end his career forever.

    In this moment, he needs clarity in his role. If I were the selector, I would pick him for Test cricket and simply ask him to bat time and not worry about anything. Don't worry about the strike rate, don't worry about how many runs you score, just go out there and bat for 200 balls.

    At the age of 28 with 200+ international matches under his belt, if Umar develops his temperament, he will fly in all formats. He needs to spent time at the crease and repeat the process over and over again.

  60. #300
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    Well, he is around 35. Won't be around past 2020, I think. He's been a good player though and a good investment. Hopefully the next batch can surpass Azhar and Shafiq.

  61. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I think Umar is simply not intelligent enough to juggle Tests and LOIs at this point. Bringing him back in all three formats at the same time is very risky, and one flop comeback by Umar at this stage of his career will end his career forever.

    In this moment, he needs clarity in his role. If I were the selector, I would pick him for Test cricket and simply ask him to bat time and not worry about anything. Don't worry about the strike rate, don't worry about how many runs you score, just go out there and bat for 200 balls.

    At the age of 28 with 200+ international matches under his belt, if Umar develops his temperament, he will fly in all formats. He needs to spent time at the crease and repeat the process over and over again.
    Since the next is 10 months away, I say let him play until the WC if he delivers in the PSL and proves fitness.

    After the WC he should be requested to commit to tests exclusively for a minimum of 2 years until he's developed his temperament as you said.

  62. #302
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    We all know that Azhar is probably older than the official ď34Ē next month and that he isnít going to recover.

    We also all know that the cupboard is bare in terms of Under-19 talent.

    But Sami Aslan is 23 years old and averages 32 compiled mainly in England and Australia.

    And Umar Akmal is 28 and averages 36 made in England, Australia and New Zealand.

    While Azhar averages 28 since MisYou left and Shafiq averages 38. And Haris has a chronic knee injury and could retire at any moment.

    I reckon Pakistan needs to:

    1) Go and stick with the 2 all-rounders and 3 Specialist bowlers model.

    2) Accept that that means that Mohammad Rizwanís superior batting means that he keeps and bats at 6.

    3) Build the 5 Specialist batting positions around Babar Azam and Shan Masood.

    4) Keep the disappointing Asad Shafiq on at Number 3 for one more year so that Azhar and Shafiq donít exit simultaneously.

    5) Go with Sami Aslam as the other opener and Umar Akmal at 5 for a minimum of 2 years, and employ Shan Masoodís private batting coach to work with them.

    So in Australia in December my batting would be:

    1. Shan Masood (c)
    2. Sami Aslam
    3. Asad Shafiq
    4. Babar Azam
    5. Umar Akmal
    6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
    7. Shadab Khan
    8. Faheem Ashraf
    9. Mohammad Amir

  63. #303
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    Are we seriously talking about Umar Akmal being in test team? People please grow up, Umar is HISTORY. Let's invest in some young players who can replace Azhar now and Asad in a year time. In regards to ODI and T20 we cannot afford to bring UA into those teams either as he has nothing left to offer. This doesn't mean we should keep playing Malik and Hafeez as that's also going to end in a failure. If we want any chance in the World Cup, need to bring batsman with proper technique in the team ASAP like Saud and Khusdil. Otherwise prepare for an early exit......

  64. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakuGM View Post
    Are we seriously talking about Umar Akmal being in test team? People please grow up, Umar is HISTORY. Let's invest in some young players who can replace Azhar now and Asad in a year time. In regards to ODI and T20 we cannot afford to bring UA into those teams either as he has nothing left to offer. This doesn't mean we should keep playing Malik and Hafeez as that's also going to end in a failure. If we want any chance in the World Cup, need to bring batsman with proper technique in the team ASAP like Saud and Khusdil. Otherwise prepare for an early exit......
    But as Mudassar Nazar has pointed out, the young batsmen are rubbish.

    Saud Shakeel was totally overshadowed by Babar Azam and Sami Aslam in June 2016 when they toured England with Pakistan A.

    Literally, Babar Azam and Sami Aslam are the last decent young batsmen to come through.

    So you need to rebuild Sami Aslamís technique and groom Umar Akmalís tiny brain and make the best of what youíve got.

  65. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    But as Mudassar Nazar has pointed out, the young batsmen are rubbish.

    Saud Shakeel was totally overshadowed by Babar Azam and Sami Aslam in June 2016 when they toured England with Pakistan A.

    Literally, Babar Azam and Sami Aslam are the last decent young batsmen to come through.

    So you need to rebuild Sami Aslamís technique and groom Umar Akmalís tiny brain and make the best of what youíve got.
    Not really - Saud was dropped for 1st game (SRL A), which PAK A managed to lose chasing 153; then next game he was MoM for his match winning 86 & 51*

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...f-england-2016

    There is a talent crisis indeed, but absolutely no reason why players like Saud & Saad should wait for 3 years to get even a chance in squad, when players like Imam are regular in 2 formats and Asad/Azhar are struggling after a decade as regular under the shed of MisYou. And, I can name Usman Sallauddin as well, who is a fringe player for now probably 4 years. They have done this to Haris Sohail for 5 years, when Haris should have been PAK No. 4 from 1st April 2011.

    And, now they have pushed Babar to No. 6 when Azhar is basically putting tail-ender's score from No. 3.

    If you have a shallow Captain to lead cricket team, PCT is a perfect example of what happens with junior players.

  66. #306
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    Should Azhar Ali announce his retirement today?

    Well, we have all seen what has happened.

    Azhar Ali is about to be ď34Ē years old and his batting has gone into permanent age-related decline outside Asia - not just in South Africa but England and even Ireland.

    He averages 28 in 13 Tests since Younis and Misbah retired. Not only has he been incapable of leading the batting as the senior batsman, he no longer even deserves a place in the team. Even the disappointing Asad Shafiq averages 38 in those 13 Tests!

    The next big assignment is the Tests in Australia in December, by which time Azhar needs to have been replaced.

    All this points to this current Test being his last one. But he has been a decent servant, even if age has caught up with him.

    So shouldnít Azhar Ali be given the courtesy of having his Test retirement announced TODAY, so that his team mates and the spectators can give him an ovation for his final Test innings on Sunday?

  67. #307
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    He needs to be sacked, doesn't deserve to be allowed retirement

  68. #308
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    Likely time to look at his spot in the team.

    Averages 31.56 over the past two years (16 Tests).


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  69. #309
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    Azhar and asad have been completw failures in the last two years , azhar averages 31.5 and asad averages 32. Both owe their careers to uae wickets.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  70. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Not really - Saud was dropped for 1st game (SRL A), which PAK A managed to lose chasing 153; then next game he was MoM for his match winning 86 & 51*

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8...f-england-2016

    There is a talent crisis indeed, but absolutely no reason why players like Saud & Saad should wait for 3 years to get even a chance in squad, when players like Imam are regular in 2 formats and Asad/Azhar are struggling after a decade as regular under the shed of MisYou. And, I can name Usman Sallauddin as well, who is a fringe player for now probably 4 years. They have done this to Haris Sohail for 5 years, when Haris should have been PAK No. 4 from 1st April 2011.

    And, now they have pushed Babar to No. 6 when Azhar is basically putting tail-ender's score from No. 3.

    If you have a shallow Captain to lead cricket team, PCT is a perfect example of what happens with junior players.
    Oh yes, good points!

    I just want to see players with a future selected, not guys the wrong side of 30.

    And ideally the best Under-19ís - like Shaheen Shah Afridi- should never play any domestic cricket at all, just keep them with the senior squad.

  71. #311
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    I don't think he should. He's got at least 4-5 years of cricket left in him and i genuinely think that Azhar can turn around his poor run of form. What we need right now is at least one good middle order batsman and if we don't even have one good batsman in our domestic setup then Azhar's value increases two fold. However, i also think that selectors should try a rotation policy by providing chances to prolific run scorers in first class cricket.

  72. #312
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    Not only Azhar but also Asad should be dropped for long. As long as they occupy two spots in batting line up Pakistan will occupy no 7 to 8 spot in rankings

  73. #313
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    azhar & shafiq

    2 golden boys

  74. #314
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    He should retire.
    But i don't think he would.
    Pakistan is blessed with lot of seniors in the past who just play for their selves and cost Pakistan countless series and promising youngsters.
    Azhar ali is one of them. He will travel to Australia and will fail there and he has full right to play because he is our honorable senior.
    And we will cost many series and deserving youngsters like asim kamal fawad saad ali , usman rizwan and many more

  75. #315
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    He doesn't have any alternative career so even if he wants to, he will keep playing for his family...

  76. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    I don't think he should. He's got at least 4-5 years of cricket left in him and i genuinely think that Azhar can turn around his poor run of form. What we need right now is at least one good middle order batsman and if we don't even have one good batsman in our domestic setup then Azhar's value increases two fold. However, i also think that selectors should try a rotation policy by providing chances to prolific run scorers in first class cricket.
    People underestimate Azhar Ali's knee problem. He needs to be put out of his misery

  77. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Oh yes, good points!

    I just want to see players with a future selected, not guys the wrong side of 30.

    And ideally the best Under-19’s - like Shaheen Shah Afridi- should never play any domestic cricket at all, just keep them with the senior squad.
    Saud has the best potential among untested players and he is 23, probably more close to genuine age than most PAK players, and senior by an U19 WC than Imam or Sami; should have played 25+ games for PAK by now.

    Coming to unavailability of talent, I won't go to that debate - if there is not enough talent that itself is systems' fault because in a 230 million country talent can only dry up if the interest of the game dies, which is not the case. BUT, I can tell you that 15 years back, this guy Inzamam Ul Haq was the most power Captain of PAK team since Imran, and he had the best coach in world to support .... then PAK won 2004 & 2006 U19 WC - NOT A SINGLE PLAYER (One got the chance to play 1 Test) got any chance under him - it can't be lack of talent only.

    In fact in 4 years, 3 players debuted in total and one played a single game, one on his last Test - and I must say, Inzamam's PAK was the most under achievers compared to the player pool available, for his Captaincy, for his nepotism and for his selection dead locks - for 4 years, he did exactly same with batsmen (players actually) what he has done to NZ/SAF series - selective pool of players, if one fails, he'll pick other one from that pool. From that period, I can name a full squad of 15, who could have made quite a decent International side - NEVER got their chances. The worst character for CS role, in fact any administrative role and he'll make PCT his friends & family business if allowed.

    Unless Ul Haq is sacked, forget about any major changes - 10 months later, just check how many from this Test squad play PAK's next Test, result doesn't matter.
    Last edited by MMHS; 12th January 2019 at 08:53.

  78. #318
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    If you canít perform in South Africa you wonít in Australia.

    So even if Azhar could score easy runs in the UAE, his successor needs to play to get him ready for the Australia Tests next December.

    So this match has to be the end for Azhar.

    Mickey and Inzamam should tell Azhar that there will be a press conference at 6 pm tonight. He can either use it to announce his retirement himself, or Mickey will use it to pay tribute to Azhar before his final Test innings.

    Either way, Azhar needs to know that this is his final Test.

  79. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    People target Shafiq but conveniently forget Azhar Ali has been much worse
    What you saying? Moyo asked these two to be in the world cup squad. They are great players cant you see.

  80. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by trickyone View Post
    He doesn't have any alternative career so even if he wants to, he will keep playing for his family...
    Pretty much this. Doubt he will retire.


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