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  1. #321
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    He is now a walker apparently.

  2. #322
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    England should open with Cook and Bairstow and bat Root at 4. Give the gloves to Buttler who will bat at 7 only and if he doesn't score much, atleast he will be motivated enough by the gloves work.

  3. #323
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    Or else bring Ben Foakes who is a wicket keeper batsmen. Jennings or Malan can be dropped.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    He is now a walker apparently.
    If we had a player like Root, I would be so frustrated.

    Probably would hate him (due to the hyping only for him to fail after 50s and not be able to win matches like a top class batsmen) and not rate him very highly.
    Last edited by Aman; 3rd August 2018 at 12:42.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Or else bring Ben Foakes who is a wicket keeper batsmen. Jennings or Malan can be dropped.
    What happened? When a 50 could have been extremely useful, he fails?


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  6. #326
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    Ironically the day when one of his gritty and pretty 50-&-outs would have been invaluable (in a low scoring game) he flops for 14.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    What happened? When a 50 could have been extremely useful, he fails?
    He would have won by his 80 itself in first inning if not for a masterclass by Kohli. They still can though.

  8. #328
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    Consistency is important but being able to score daddy hundreds and take games away from oppositions is what makes you the best. Root's inability to do that puts him behind Kohli, Smith and Williamson for me.

  9. #329
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    Honestly I don’t think Joe Root deserves to make up the ‘Big 4’ - he is just not mentally strong enough to dominate any good team on a consistent basis. If Kohli got judged on his inability to play on the English swinging wickets last time round, surely Root needs to be held even more responsible for failing to score in a home-series against a pace attack which though good is not exactly the all-time best out there. If Kohli or Smith had failed this badly in a home series, people in this forum would have raked them over coals for it.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildilpak View Post
    Honestly I don’t think Joe Root deserves to make up the ‘Big 4’ - he is just not mentally strong enough to dominate any good team on a consistent basis. If Kohli got judged on his inability to play on the English swinging wickets last time round, surely Root needs to be held even more responsible for failing to score in a home-series against a pace attack which though good is not exactly the all-time best out there. If Kohli or Smith had failed this badly in a home series, people in this forum would have raked them over coals for it.
    At this point it's really just the Big 2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildilpak View Post
    Honestly I don’t think Joe Root deserves to make up the ‘Big 4’ - he is just not mentally strong enough to dominate any good team on a consistent basis. If Kohli got judged on his inability to play on the English swinging wickets last time round, surely Root needs to be held even more responsible for failing to score in a home-series against a pace attack which though good is not exactly the all-time best out there. If Kohli or Smith had failed this badly in a home series, people in this forum would have raked them over coals for it.
    The Big 4 term is utter tripe. Root is way below Kohli in all format, Big 4 implies as if they're comparable. Root doesn't look likely to be an ATG as it stand right now.

  12. #332
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    @Aman has mentally destroyed Root.

  13. #333
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    If you look at tests for the last 4 years as a decent sample size these are their averages:

    Smith 72.20
    Kohli 65.69 (and going up)
    Williamson 63.00
    Root 50.86

    Root is a long way behind. He made the best start of the four to his test career, but hasn't really improved and dominated.

    A few more players are ahead of Root's average too ( including 3 Pakistanis Adam Vogues, Younis, Hafeez, Azhar) and several just below at 48/49 (Pujara, Warner, Taylor, AB, Khawaja)

  14. #334
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    Never been a fan of Root more for his personality than his cricketing skills.

    But you can see why he frustrates his fans. He rarely looks in trouble right from the get go and you feel here's someone in control of his game. And then he gets out.

    So either:
    1. He has some serious concentration issues.
    2. He has a certain game and any delivery outside of that game gets him out.
    3. He doesn't have the skills that lesser players have, that enable them to look ugly, survive deliveries outside their comfort zone and then go on to bat longer than he seems capable of.

  15. #335
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    Out for a duck today.

  16. #336
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    Only delusional English think Root is on the same level as Kohli, or even Smith.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Only delusional English think Root is on the same level as Kohli, or even Smith.
    Which delusional English are these?

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Which delusional English are these?
    The media, I forget to mention it in my post above.

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Which delusional English are these?
    What do you think about him.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    What do you think about him.
    Very good batsman who is not a “Jedi” yet.

  21. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Very good batsman who is not a “Jedi” yet.
    Jedi?

  22. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Very good batsman who is not a “Jedi” yet.
    True , he still has 2 years to hit peak but this is poor in home series, he is no Cook defn.

  23. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Jedi?
    Star Wars reference..'young root Walker is not readyy yet' - yoda's voice

  24. #344
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    He is going through a bad patch.

  25. #345
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    Currently he sits a long way behind KP and Cook in terms of who is England’s best batsman of the modern era.

  26. #346
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    Finally a technical flaw getting ruthlessly exploited by the opposition. But he too good a batsman to be kept quiet

  27. #347
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    Struggling like anything, the avg. 39.84. for 2018.
    This is not to say he is not good but does not seem to be at the level of Kane,Smith and Kohli at the moment.
    Captaincy can pull down most, another example.

  28. #348
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    He’s not suited to captaincy. It takes him out of his batting zone.

    I would give the armband to Buttler. They we would get Root’s run power back.

  29. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    He’s not suited to captaincy. It takes him out of his batting zone.

    I would give the armband to Buttler. They we would get Root’s run power back.
    I think Bairstow would be better suited as he is more suited to all-formats of the sport. Butler, though good, oscillates between being very good and very bad.

    Again, I know Bairstow is going through a lean patch but he can come good and be steady most of the time than Butler. Just my opinion.

  30. #350
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    Clearly a step below Smith, Kohli and Williamson.

  31. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketindiafan View Post
    Finally a technical flaw getting ruthlessly exploited by the opposition. But he too good a batsman to be kept quiet
    err no he's not..he's a batsman who can be kept down for a long time..and probably will be now..

  32. #352
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    Capable of playing blistering knocks on his days tha make him look as good as anyone but it’s been a tough year for him. I hope he bounces back. Talented lad.

    This is the biggest test of greatness. Whether you have it in you to BOUNCE BACK?

    Kohli proved his resilience and mental fortitude.

    Root has to follow.

  33. #353
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    He needs to show some personality. He’s talented but you just don’t know who Joe Root is. Tendulkar was a small guy but he had fire in his eyes even if he wasn’t confrontational or vocal. You could see in his body language he wanted to fight it out there and dominate. Your Bhaijaan doesn’t see it in Root. Smith has it. Kane has it. Kohli always has it.

  34. #354
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    Remind me, when was the last time Root scored an away 100?

  35. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Remind me, when was the last time Root scored an away 100?
    Rajkot 2016 IIRC, isn't it?

  36. #356
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    It seems the help provided by us to Root as far as conversion of hundred is concerned in the last test at Oval hasn't been enough for him.

  37. #357
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    I also think that he should hand the captaincy to Buttler.

    Root will not get back to truly world-class level as a batsman whilst he is captain.

  38. #358
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    I have suggested that Root should consider keeping a beard. This will compensate for his lack of personality and make him look somewhat ferocious and might just trigger a fresh purple patch.

    It worked for Indian team in 2013.

    Babar Azam and Joe Root can both learn from it and follow.

    I don't know why the mods decided to delete that post. When things don't work you have to look for out of the box ideas. @MenInG

  39. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    I have suggested that Root should consider keeping a beard. This will compensate for his lack of personality and make him look somewhat ferocious and might just trigger a fresh purple patch.

    It worked for Indian team in 2013.

    Babar Azam and Joe Root can both learn from it and follow.

    I don't know why the mods decided to delete that post. When things don't work you have to look for out of the box ideas. @MenInG
    Saw a picture earlier this week and the whole Indian team had a beard. Guess Kohli has a huge influence.

  40. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Viper View Post
    Saw a picture earlier this week and the whole Indian team had a beard. Guess Kohli has a huge influence.
    It is underrated very underrated.

    How you feel about your looks has a major impact on your confidence level and your performance whether in office or in sports.

    Jadeja had zero personality before he put on the beard. Fact.

    Dhawan had zero personality before he put on the beard. Fact.

    Kohli looked childish before he put on the beard. Fact.

  41. #361
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    @freelance_cricketer

    Awesome stuff.

  42. #362
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    Test average under 50, for the first time, in the last 2-3 years I think.

  43. #363
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    Home Average: 55
    Away Average: 42

    Tells you all you need to know.

  44. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Home Average: 55
    Away Average: 42

    Tells you all you need to know.
    A large difference, for a top player in the world cricket.
    If it were an asian player, people would diss him already and write farewells in media.

    Out of context topic:
    It will interesting to see how smith performs when he comes back.
    He seems undisturbed on the cricket field at the moment.

  45. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Home Average: 55
    Away Average: 42

    Tells you all you need to know.
    Fabulous 4 is once again, proven to be a nonsense term. It had no merit back in 2012, it has no merit now. Smith and Kohli are on a different level in their best formats.

  46. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Fabulous 4 is once again, proven to be a nonsense term. It had no merit back in 2012, it has no merit now. Smith and Kohli are on a different level in their best formats.
    True, Root is on the level of Pujara, du Plessis, et al.

  47. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Fabulous 4 is once again, proven to be a nonsense term. It had no merit back in 2012, it has no merit now. Smith and Kohli are on a different level in their best formats.
    Sorry its Kohli and then everyone else. And even Kohli is hamstrung abroad. This big four nonsense is just that, nonsense. Smith is a big man on flat pitches, Root is a overhyped englishman who wont really get to cook level greatness IMHO. I think Williamson could go above Smith in the great batsman stakes as he has a brilliant all around game, but again he is hamstrung because he plays for NZ who don't get massive test matches to play in. (e.g. ashes series etc).

    In the 90's it was lara and sachin and then everyone else with Ponting squeezing in to make it a big three .

    In our era the hype machine wants this weird "big three" dominated cricket world so have created this fake big four bakwaas to try and hype their own players..

    Interesting that there isnt a bowling equivalent or allrounder equivalent like we have had in the past. It batting batting batting and we all know which country loves their batting above all else. Hence this overhype of batsman.

  48. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Sorry its Kohli and then everyone else. And even Kohli is hamstrung abroad. This big four nonsense is just that, nonsense. Smith is a big man on flat pitches, Root is a overhyped englishman who wont really get to cook level greatness IMHO. I think Williamson could go above Smith in the great batsman stakes as he has a brilliant all around game, but again he is hamstrung because he plays for NZ who don't get massive test matches to play in. (e.g. ashes series etc).

    In the 90's it was lara and sachin and then everyone else with Ponting squeezing in to make it a big three .

    In our era the hype machine wants this weird "big three" dominated cricket world so have created this fake big four bakwaas to try and hype their own players..

    Interesting that there isnt a bowling equivalent or allrounder equivalent like we have had in the past. It batting batting batting and we all know which country loves their batting above all else. Hence this overhype of batsman.
    We actually have a lot of good bowlers around, but none of them are outstanding. Maybe Rabada in future I guess. Even for batting, only Kohli and Smith are legit ATG contenders atm.

  49. #369
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    The fab four was made by Martin Crowe having seen their potential and initial performance. At that time, it was fine but clearly, with time, it eventually comes down to the result you put up and after reaching 6K runs, what matters is their result now and not potential.

    Clearly, Kohli is leagues ahead of rest with Smith being a strong contender in tests.

    Root and Williamson are not even close to become an ATG and could have to contend with country greats tag only.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; Yesterday at 10:44.

  50. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    The fab four was made by Martin Crowe having seen their potential and initial performance. At that time, it was fine but clearly, with time, it eventually comes down to the result you put up and after reaching 6K runs, what matters is their result now and not potential.

    Clearly, Kohli is leagues ahead of rest with Smith being a strong contender in tests.

    Root and Williamson are not even close to become an ATG and could have to contend with country greats tag only.
    Williamson can at least be undisputed GOAT for his own team when he retires. Root has stiff competition to be England's best batsman. England have had Barrington, Hammond, Sutcliffe, Hobbs, Hutton, Compton, KP and Cook. Just shows how hard it is to be an ATG.

  51. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Sorry its Kohli and then everyone else. And even Kohli is hamstrung abroad.
    In which world? If we're talking Tests:

    Avg. in Aus = 62.00
    Avg. in SA = 55.80
    Avg. in Eng = 36.35
    Avg. in SL = 43.77
    Avg. in NZ = 71.33
    Avg. in WI = 36.33

    Note that those England and WI stats are a shade lower because of the 2014 and 2011 tours respectively. And in ODIs he is elite everywhere...

  52. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    In which world? If we're talking Tests:

    Avg. in Aus = 62.00
    Avg. in SA = 55.80
    Avg. in Eng = 36.35
    Avg. in SL = 43.77
    Avg. in NZ = 71.33
    Avg. in WI = 36.33

    Note that those England and WI stats are a shade lower because of the 2014 and 2011 tours respectively. And in ODIs he is elite everywhere...
    Kohli cannot be called a great until he scores in the Windies

    PS : Criteria updated to reflect last Eng series

  53. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    In which world? If we're talking Tests:

    Avg. in Aus = 62.00
    Avg. in SA = 55.80
    Avg. in Eng = 36.35
    Avg. in SL = 43.77
    Avg. in NZ = 71.33
    Avg. in WI = 36.33

    Note that those England and WI stats are a shade lower because of the 2014 and 2011 tours respectively. And in ODIs he is elite everywhere...
    Let me clarify. He is hamstrung because most of the time he's the only one left to score runs..his numbers could be even better if he had some consistency at the other end..also Kohli alone cant win you series. Thats what I meant by hamstrung..

  54. #374
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    Why is this thread bumped everytime he fails ? He is allowed a bad patch.

  55. #375
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    I am surprised at this thread. Root would make to every team’s first eleven in tests and ODIs currently.

  56. #376
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    In Tests Root has struggled recently in Tests in Asia. He had a poor tour to India where he was constantly getting out after starts and in SL as well he has been underwhelming.

  57. #377
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    He is not overrated, he is among the top three batsmen in the world who is going through a rough patch.

    However, I agree that the Fab Four is a myth. Kohli is in a league of his own, followed by Root, Smith, Williamson and Buttler (ability wise).

  58. #378
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    Trust the Brits to overhype their products. I mean British media constructed a 'Big 4' term in tennis and included Murray with Federer/Nadal/Djokovic when in reality their boy is closer to Wawrinka than any of the members of the Big 3.

  59. #379
    Debut
    Dec 2012
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    Indian Ocean
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Trust the Brits to overhype their products. I mean British media constructed a 'Big 4' term in tennis and included Murray with Federer/Nadal/Djokovic when in reality their boy is closer to Wawrinka than any of the members of the Big 3.
    And the less said about their football media, the better.

  60. #380
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    Sep 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Williamson can at least be undisputed GOAT for his own team when he retires. Root has stiff competition to be England's best batsman. England have had Barrington, Hammond, Sutcliffe, Hobbs, Hutton, Compton, KP and Cook. Just shows how hard it is to be an ATG.
    England obviously had lots of great players in past and while I do think Root will also join the league of mentioned names, I can't really say where would he be ranked among these players.

    However, he could very well be their most prolific run scorer across all formats along with 50+ average in both formats. Might miss out with 50+ avg in tests or might reach there as well.


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