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  1. #1
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    "Our ultimate goal is to make our players and team ready for the World Cup 2019" : Mickey Arthur

    LAHORE: Pakistan cricket team head coach Mickey Arthur has said that the ultimate goal is to prepare the team for World Cup 2019 and making the team number one.

    Talking to the reporters here at the National Cricket Academy (NCA) here on Thursday, Mickey said: “Certainly we have a successful year and certainly we are going into the right direction. We are not just focusing on the very next series, but our main and ultimate goal is to make our players and team ready for the World Cup 2019. We have to make Pakistan number one team, definitely it will take time, but we are hopeful that with hard work, devotion and dedication, we will achieve this goal.

    “Right now, our Test team is pretty good while One-day team has improved a lot. Although we had lost in England yet now after the Champions Trophy victory, which was fantastic, we are getting better and better and I am really excited for future of Pakistan team,” he added.

    About the replacements of former captains Misbah-ul-Haq and Younus Khan, the head coach said: “In top order, we have Babar Azam, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq who must step up and take responsibility, while we have other youngsters who can the ideal combination. We have enough players in shape of seniors and youngsters, who can fill the void. We have developing some better young players, who will be provided with the more and more opportunities so that they may become future stars of Pakistan cricket.”

    To a query regarding declining batting department, Mickey said: “We want to leave a great legacy behind in terms of structure and in terms of standards that we leave for Pakistan cricket. Our batting has started to really step up. It’s not the area we need to keep improving but we need to start getting some younger guys to the system, definitely, in terms of our batting, we are getting better and better with every series. The other thing is that I think our bowling unit is very good now and we have got depth and strength in both seam and spin bowling so that’s a great legacy.”

    About the future of Wahab Riaz, he said: “Competition in bowling department is pretty good and impressive. Young players are knocking at the door with their outstanding performance, so the senior players have to perform extraordinarily, as it is the only way that can keep them in safe zone. Wahab is a good player, but we have great youngsters in the team as well, who are also very impressive, so competition is very tough and Wahab really need to work hard and get back his place in the team.”

    To a query regarding Umar Akmal, who has been facing problems regarding his conduct and fitness level, the head coach said: “We are not going to compromise on fitness at any cost and we have set some standards to meet for every player and only those players, who will keep on meeting that set standards, will remain in the team. The benefits of that will result in better running between the wickets, better fielding and better performance. Umar Akmal got seven opportunities, so he should have cemented his place in the team.” For Ahmad Shahzad, the coach said that Ahmad Shahzad has no fitness problem, he needs to improve his batting and has to perform to get back into the team.

    When asked how the batting combination would be arranged after Misbah and Younus Khan, Mickey said: “For opening pair, we have Shan Masood, who opens the innings and Sami Aslam, who is also very good at this place and Salahuddin also opened well against the West Indies. For number three and onward positions, we have Azhar Ali, Babar Azam and Asad Shafiq. We have still good combination, and by utilizing it wisely, out batsmen can produce better results.”

    The Champions Trophy victory celebrations were amazing and the entire country and cricket lovers celebrated it in the best possible way. “The players were really given tremendous welcome and honour after the Champions Trophy victory and still they have been enjoying great respect and honour and for me, these three weeks were best of my coaching career. But being a coach, for me its finish now and I have asked the players to forget about it and now the camp is going to start on 22nd. They should take it as start of a new journey, now they have to get back to hard work and have to get better and better for the upcoming assignment and have to focus on winning the World Cup 2019.”

    Two years left in expiring Mickey Arthur’s contract with Pakistan Cricket Board, when he was asked whether he is interested in getting extension, he said: “Nothing safe in coaching. We are not planning for just one series but for the World Cup 2019. So I have not talked to the PCB in this regard, and when time will come, it will also be discussed.”

    http://nation.com.pk/sports/03-Aug-2...-mickey-arthur
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 3rd August 2017 at 15:27.


    SIR DONALD BRADMAN ------SORRY, BUT NO ONE LIKE HIM

  2. #2
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    Time to get back to work, Arthur tells champion Pakistan

    Mickey Arthur says winning the Champions Trophy as coach of the Pakistan team was the best three weeks in his cricketing career, but it’s time to get back to work.

    Pakistan, ranked eighth in the eight-team Champions Trophy, stunned the cricketing world when it thrashed defending champion India in the final in June.

    ”To go from absolute darkness to winning it … is the best three weeks of my cricketing career,” Arthur told reporters in Lahore on Thursday.

    ”The players deserved everything they’ve got after the Champions Trophy because it was a phenomenal achievement by all of them,” Arthur said.

    Pakistan lost its first match at the tournament – to India.

    ”I’m so proud of the way they fought back. Their commitment, their work ethic everything was outstanding, but it’s finished now, it’s gone, that’s done,” Arthur said.

    Pakistan has a long break and its next international action is to host Sri Lanka in October in the United Arab Emirates.

    The Pakistan Cricket Board has planned a training camp for the players, starting in Lahore from Aug. 22, and Arthur said players’ fitness was a key factor.

    ”That (Champions Trophy victory) was just the start of the journey, we’ve got to keep pushing to keep getting better and better and that we’ll only do with real hard work,” he said.

    ”There’s not going to be any hangover from the Champions Trophy, I can assure you that.”

    The PCB has appointed its limited overs captain Sarfraz Ahmed to lead in test matches as well with the international retirements of Misbah-ul-Haq and Younis Khan after the series against the West Indies, which ended in May.

    Arthur said players like Asad Shafiq and Babar Azam can fill any gaps in the middle order.

    ”We’ve got enough young players with the likes of Asad Shafiq … to step up now and fill the shoes of Misbah and Younis,” Arthur said.

    Arthur was impressed with the progression of fast bowler Hasan Ali, who was named player of the tournament in the Champions Trophy, and opening batsman Fakhar Zaman. That in turn sparked healthy internal competition for team places.

    ”There’s no player in our system or in our structure that can just rest on their laurels,” Arthur said without naming any player.

    ”What we always wanted to do is to achieve depth and to achieve depth in every department, and we are slowly but surely getting to that position now which is great.”

    The PCB recently excluded Umar Akmal from the list of centrally contracted players. The batsman failed a fitness test prior to the Champions Trophy and was flown back home. Akmal didn’t attend a high performance camp in Lahore and flew to England, saying he’s working on his rehabilitation.

    ”Umar Akmal failed several fitness tests, what do you want us to do?” Arthur said. ”I would have thought if you’ve failed one or two (fitness tests) you would never put yourself in that position again. Well he’s had several opportunities and hasn’t passed one so that’s up to him.”

    http://www.foxsports.com/cricket/sto...akistan-080317
    Last edited by idrizzy; 3rd August 2017 at 20:07.


    SIR DONALD BRADMAN ------SORRY, BUT NO ONE LIKE HIM

  3. #3
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    Oh No, Mickey mentioned Shan Masood; he is def gonna be the most hated man on the plannet for the entire population!

    I hear Mr. ex-PM is gonna do a day of shukrana for this i.e. at least he is now not the most hated on any longer :-)


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  4. #4
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    If you want to prepare for the future, then by 2019 WC, only one senior out Azhar/Malik/Hafeez should be in the squad. You can get rid of them one by one. Or drop them both for the next series. But for next series (against SL), I want to see one of this oldie trio dropped. News is that Malik and Hafeez will be in the squad, so I hope that Azhar is dropped from ODIs.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  5. #5
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    look like azhar will move back to number 3 in tests which will be a bad move.

  6. #6
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    Wahan Riaz isn't an automatic starter anymore according to Mickey.



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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo23 View Post
    look like azhar will move back to number 3 in tests which will be a bad move.
    He averages 55 as an opener with a double and triple century.

    If it ain't broke don't fix it.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  8. #8
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    Imo would be a big mistake to not have Azhar open


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  9. #9
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    Best way to prepare would be to play as many matches as possible before the tournament starts. From what I am seeing that does not seem to be the case.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  10. #10
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    Good to hear that the team's long-term future is being considered. Hopefully, this is a hint (and a warning) for the likes of Hafeez, Shoaib, et al.


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  11. #11
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    Salahuddin opened in the Windies? Azhar for number 3? I just hope that's a mistake in the transcript and Mickey isn't seriously considering changing Azhar's position around and considering Salahuddin as an opener.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UN talkz View Post
    ”Umar Akmal failed several fitness tests, what do you want us to do?” Arthur said. ”I would have thought if you’ve failed one or two (fitness tests) you would never put yourself in that position again. Well he’s had several opportunities and hasn’t passed one so that’s up to him.”

    http://www.foxsports.com/cricket/sto...akistan-080317
    Can't praise this thinking enough. Yet I'm sure there will be an article published soon where Umar Akmal is making excuses and press is falling for his nonsense.


    Greatness is a choice. Mediocrity is a disease.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by adil_909 View Post
    Can't praise this thinking enough. Yet I'm sure there will be an article published soon where Umar Akmal is making excuses and press is falling for his nonsense.
    I saw the presser.. it looked they were done with UA. the way MA talked abt him just showed that he doesn't need UA anymore... good to see that it has finally happened.. it's better late than never.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo23 View Post
    look like azhar will move back to number 3 in tests which will be a bad move.
    Yes I agree. Very bad move indeed.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boi View Post
    Salahuddin opened in the Windies? Azhar for number 3? I just hope that's a mistake in the transcript and Mickey isn't seriously considering changing Azhar's position around and considering Salahuddin as an opener.
    Salahuddin and Asgar never got a single chance yet. Can't understand what MA is saying.
    Last edited by ask_analyse_act; 4th August 2017 at 18:52.

  16. #16
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    From this interview it looks like shehzad and Wahab will be dropped going forward. Which is good for the team.

  17. #17
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    Feel like Mickey will move Azhar back down to three. With so many available test spots for grabs and a double retirement of the mainstay of the middle order, filling a team with lots of new guys is risky. You could have the situation like in England 2010 when Butt captained and there was no experience in that team, the order just collapsed. And Babar hasn't yet excelled in test cricket yet, still finding his feet.

    He'll bring back a few players most likely and try out one or two. Think Sami will be back opening. I'm not sure if they'll stick with Masood or bring in Fakhar Zaman, likely one of the two. Azhar will be back down to 3, to allow Babar to slip down the order (as Asad supposedly wasn't up to the job at 3), reckon Babar will play 4, Asad will play 5. Leaves a batting slot available at 6, where Salluhuddin will get it, don't think it's a coincidence he's in the contracts nor mentioned, he'll be called up. Don't think Mickey knows anything about him (hence the opening comments), but think it's what the selectors have tipped him off, knows he'll be in the squad soon.

    Think the most interesting thing to see here is yet again Haris's name isn't mentioned. Even Usman got a mention over him. I'm really starting to doubt whether Haris is realistically going to come back to the team.

    I'm sure all three of Azhar, Hafeez and Malik will be kept in the ODI squad. All this anti-senior stuff, Mickey isn't like that at all. He's fairly slow to bring in new players, Fakhar didn't start in the CT till midway, Riaz had to have a shocker/injury for Junaid to come in. He was happy to have Irfan back before he realised his fitness. Same with Umar Akmal. He doesn't like debuting/trying out too many new players all at once, it's usually just one at a time. He's pretty strict on fitness too, which is why our team is mostly fit now and one of the reasons I feel even Sohail Khan was disregarded (over riaz etc). Think Sharjeel was the only one given leeway given his talents and even then, pretty sure he was told to shape up pretty quickly as you could see he was losing weight while he was playing with the team. Sarfraz's fitness too has improved recently.

  18. #18
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    One thing I like about Arthur is that, he is a no nonsense guy, who plays sweet with words. He speaks his mind and that sometimes is better than hiding in between. His assessment regarding PAK's 2 most invested players in last 5 years is spot on - Ahmed is quite fit in PAK standard, but his game hasn't improved, rather regressed, so he needs to perform with bat. While, Umar has wasted his chance - with bat, with fitness and more than anything with his shallow attitude. I hear Arthur - regarding Ahmed, he is clear about his improvement areas, but for Umar, he has mentioned fitness & approach to his game (wasting 7 opportunities), not much on batting (though Umar hasn't exactly set fire on wicket since coming back), which suggests me that, Arthur hasn't left his hope on Umar yet and rightly so - a fit & performing Umar should have been the MVP of this PAK side, which badly needs an enforcer in middle order and a back-up WK, in playing XI, which has WK as Captain (& not the fittest spring chicken around).

    He is clear about his next target - WC 2019, which suggests that going forward, PAK'll rotate it's squad and playing XI, to find the best 20 players by 2019, fitting into the strategy for a WC in UK. And, I am sure if allowed a free run, he'll reduce the average age of the side significantly. From his comment on Wahab & treatment for Sohail, I can see tougher times coming for 30+ brigade, who are basically floating in this team on the shoulders of younger players. Looks like Ul Haq is the last hope for the likes of MoHa, Malik, Wahab .......

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    One thing I like about Arthur is that, he is a no nonsense guy, who plays sweet with words. He speaks his mind and that sometimes is better than hiding in between. His assessment regarding PAK's 2 most invested players in last 5 years is spot on - Ahmed is quite fit in PAK standard, but his game hasn't improved, rather regressed, so he needs to perform with bat. While, Umar has wasted his chance - with bat, with fitness and more than anything with his shallow attitude. I hear Arthur - regarding Ahmed, he is clear about his improvement areas, but for Umar, he has mentioned fitness & approach to his game (wasting 7 opportunities), not much on batting (though Umar hasn't exactly set fire on wicket since coming back), which suggests me that, Arthur hasn't left his hope on Umar yet and rightly so - a fit & performing Umar should have been the MVP of this PAK side, which badly needs an enforcer in middle order and a back-up WK, in playing XI, which has WK as Captain (& not the fittest spring chicken around).

    He is clear about his next target - WC 2019, which suggests that going forward, PAK'll rotate it's squad and playing XI, to find the best 20 players by 2019, fitting into the strategy for a WC in UK. And, I am sure if allowed a free run, he'll reduce the average age of the side significantly. From his comment on Wahab & treatment for Sohail, I can see tougher times coming for 30+ brigade, who are basically floating in this team on the shoulders of younger players. Looks like Ul Haq is the last hope for the likes of MoHa, Malik, Wahab .......

    Misbah isn't involved with PCB yet, so Arthur should be able to get rid of the older players if there's no Misbah around.

  20. #20
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    @MMHS very fascinating time ahead for pak supporters,,not like they will win but the brand of cricket with youngster bringing energy will be huge huge boast....and how u compare ravi shastri with micky???

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    @MMHS very fascinating time ahead for pak supporters,,not like they will win but the brand of cricket with youngster bringing energy will be huge huge boast....and how u compare ravi shastri with micky???
    Probably, both fitting their teams perfectly.

    Indian players come from a good FC system, and the most competitive T20 leagues in world, therefore they are technically ready, mentally prepared & tactically sound. International cricket is probably an upgrade from them in terms of technical difficulties (that's they bat or bowl against better players for IND than for their Ranji teams). But, in terms mental preparation, match tactics, situational pressure, it's similar for a Mumbai player playing against AUS for India or against Delhi/Karnataka for Mumbai. In that regard, team India can do with Shastri, whose job I see as a charming project manager - who'll do house keeping, help captain in on-field strategy & work with professional subject matter experts (here specialist coaches) to improve the performance/efficiency of their working tools (here players). And, he is brilliant in handling media, which'll keep their Captain relaxed.

    Arthur's challenge is a bit different - he has to shape unpolished diamonds, picked raw from mine (here PAK cricketers from street). Personally, I don't give PAK domestic cricket more value than the street cricket we used to play with tape tennis ball, may be at a much higher level - but it's similar in terms of organization & building cricketers mentally for international cricket. It's separate topic, which discussing here, I don't want to derail this post, therefore won't go further, but bottom line is Arthur is getting ZERO out of PAK domestics, which picks KAkmal & Shehzad as the MVP of longer & shorter format of the game - examples should be enough for my explanation.

    For PAK team, Arthur not only need to build/work with mental aspects of the game, but he has to be technical genious to file out the rust of PAK players' in terms of technique or fitness - more so the life style of a pro sportsman. And, he has to figure out his combination as per the players available not other way - that's, at highest level, coach/selectors should adopt a strategy for a given context & pick players to fit in the bill, often 80% players picks themselves, it's just that 3/4/5 horses for courses; but for Arthur, he has to find best out of an ODI squad that sometimes pick 4 spinners for an ODI in J'burg, picks Azhar, Shehzad as opening pair in 2017 - just few examples. In that regard, he is the best man available.

    Moreover, Ravi has a functional board to work with him - selectors & several levels of team India - A team, 2nd XI, U23, U19 tours and most importantly - meaningful stats from domestic. I for someone, sitting at Canada made correct prediction for 15 of the 16 Indian players to tour AUS, including KL Rahul, because I do follow Indian domestic cricket & I do trust their numbers. For Arthur - he can't trust the stats, neither the selectors, hence he has to be absolute technical & tactical genious with PAK team when it comes to pick/groom players. Biggest challenge for Ravi is to mange politics in a country of 1.3bn with so many different power points & he is good at that, also has the backing of the strongest looby of Indian cricket - the west block (Mumbai block of Maratha/Gujarati). For Arthur, he is out of politics at first shot - what he has left for him is to polish whatever spoils are thrown at him and he actually is managing that quite well - like getting a match changing 50 in an ICC final from MoHa. Ravi probably would have managed that with off-field tactics.

    Can't tell about Arthur otherway, but would have loved to imagie Ravi taking charge of PAK team ......

  22. #22
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    @MMHS u just answered the 2nd part of my question...

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    Good to hear youngsters will be given opportunities- especially in the batting department. Hafeez and Malik have hopefully been put on notice.

    Crucial thing is Mickey seems really keen to build depth in the squad so there is competition for every place in the team which is a great sign.

    By the way the passage should read:

    To a query regarding declining batting department, Mickey said: “We want to leave a great legacy behind in terms of structure and in terms of standards that we leave for Pakistan cricket. Our batting has started to really step up. It’s an area we need to keep improving but we need to start getting some younger guys to the system.

    The original article says "it's not an area we need to keep improving" which would be a rather worrying statement!

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    Bring Sharjeel in and remove Shoib Malik, i think CT final team will be ready to make it to the semi final. Its anyone's game after that.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sali View Post
    Bring Sharjeel in and remove Shoib Malik, i think CT final team will be ready to make it to the semi final. Its anyone's game after that.
    You want to keep Hafeez?

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    Arthur looks to be enjoying his visit to Pakistan.







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    Quote Originally Posted by sali View Post
    Bring Sharjeel in and remove Shoib Malik, i think CT final team will be ready to make it to the semi final. Its anyone's game after that.
    Why does every pakistani fan have anti senior agenda. We need a mix of seniors and young players to be sucessful!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdulm123 View Post
    Why does every pakistani fan have anti senior agenda. We need a mix of seniors and young players to be sucessful!
    It's not an anti-senior agenda. It's anti "picking players who feel entitled to a place in PCT, who don't perform in tournaments and prevent young talent shining through!"

    Of the two I would rather Malik but Mickey should certainly be developing alternatives for both.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Probably, both fitting their teams perfectly.
    ... It's separate topic, which discussing here, I don't want to derail this post, therefore won't go further, but bottom line is Arthur is getting ZERO out of PAK domestics, which picks KAkmal & Shehzad as the MVP of longer & shorter format of the game - examples should be enough for my explanation.
    ......
    Pakistan domestics is doing just about what a domestic scene could be expected to, minus the polishing and prepping bit. Hasan Ali, Abbas, Fakhar and Babar were all players who performed in domestics before selection, taking 1-3 place in the rankings in cups and national tourney's. Similarly with Rumman and Faheem, who did their job well when given a chance. The fact that some players who are selected fail doesn't mean that the domestic are useless, it just means that they are not 100 % predictive of international success. But who on earth expects that. In that respect the Pakistani domestic system is not noticeably worse than others. Look how many undercooked Test batsmen England have introduced in recent years. Mickey should be bold and try to inject as much new blood as possible in the coming two years. No reason to keep playing Hafeez and Malik for another year; there will be tourney's ahead of the WC where their form can be assessed, but in the meantime Mickey should take courage from the success of players like Hasan.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdulm123 View Post
    Why does every pakistani fan have anti senior agenda. We need a mix of seniors and young players to be sucessful!
    Hafeez and Malik can play if they are better than the alternative two years from now. But it is silly to not have a plan B in place in the event that they loose form. Most likely they will be found surplus to requirements if a few more youngsters are given a run.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Hafeez and Malik can play if they are better than the alternative two years from now. But it is silly to not have a plan B in place in the event that they loose form. Most likely they will be found surplus to requirements if a few more youngsters are given a run.
    "If" being the operative word in that sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Pakistan domestics is doing just about what a domestic scene could be expected to, minus the polishing and prepping bit. Hasan Ali, Abbas, Fakhar and Babar were all players who performed in domestics before selection, taking 1-3 place in the rankings in cups and national tourney's. Similarly with Rumman and Faheem, who did their job well when given a chance. The fact that some players who are selected fail doesn't mean that the domestic are useless, it just means that they are not 100 % predictive of international success. But who on earth expects that. In that respect the Pakistani domestic system is not noticeably worse than others. Look how many undercooked Test batsmen England have introduced in recent years. Mickey should be bold and try to inject as much new blood as possible in the coming two years. No reason to keep playing Hafeez and Malik for another year; there will be tourney's ahead of the WC where their form can be assessed, but in the meantime Mickey should take courage from the success of players like Hasan.
    For the bold part, one can argue also that, somehow it coincided with the appointment of a gentleman named Mickey Arthur. Obviously, cricket players coming from streets of PAK should be much better than the avenues of USA, because of factors that's beyond the domestic system.

    If you are to measure National team's success or individual performance with domestic system, then we'll have to agree that Brazil, Argentina or Uruguay has better system than English FA, or for that matter Football Ivory Coast or Senegal is managing it's youth talent better than Scotland or Sweden.

    Couple of days back, PAK players were called back to play one such Domestic tournament - now, this is part of how you manage your system, though Amir remains same bowler for Essex or Lahore Blues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    For the bold part, one can argue also that, somehow it coincided with the appointment of a gentleman named Mickey Arthur. Obviously, cricket players coming from streets of PAK should be much better than the avenues of USA, because of factors that's beyond the domestic system.

    If you are to measure National team's success or individual performance with domestic system, then we'll have to agree that Brazil, Argentina or Uruguay has better system than English FA, or for that matter Football Ivory Coast or Senegal is managing it's youth talent better than Scotland or Sweden.

    Couple of days back, PAK players were called back to play one such Domestic tournament - now, this is part of how you manage your system, though Amir remains same bowler for Essex or Lahore Blues.
    I don't disregard Mickey's contribution. I think the argument is that the system more often than not helps you pick the best possible players. None of these recent successes were plucked out of obscurity. Nor do I think that the record going back before Mickey is that poor, for those players who were selected on the basis of performance. The worst of the lot have been players like Rahat, who was not in fact the best players going by domestic comparison, but became the darling of both Waqar and Mickey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    "If" being the operative word in that sentence.
    why? does it seem unlikely that mickey will want to develop players like shadab?

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    I don't disregard Mickey's contribution. I think the argument is that the system more often than not helps you pick the best possible players. None of these recent successes were plucked out of obscurity. Nor do I think that the record going back before Mickey is that poor, for those players who were selected on the basis of performance. The worst of the lot have been players like Rahat, who was not in fact the best players going by domestic comparison, but became the darling of both Waqar and Mickey.
    System indeed helps to pick the best possible players. Every team is built on combination - out of 16, may be 12 players are automatic choices, It's that 3/4/5 players that you need the system to back. I do follow Indian & AUS domestics - you can check every time before a major series, I make at least 14 correct predictions, including newbies like Joe Burns, Kuldeep, KL, Hazlewood or Renshaw - because I trust their stats & trust their system.

    Try yourself & pick 16 players for PAK from last 3 years domestics (in synonymous stats, that's Test = FC, List A = ODI, T20 = T20I), you'll laugh at your own selection, trust me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    why? does it seem unlikely that mickey will want to develop players like shadab?
    Of course he will develop and co, but that wasn't what my comment related to. They are already in the playing xi.

    Your statement was "if a few more youngsters are given a run." All I am saying is that I hope that actually happens, and MA doesn't just stick to Hafeez/Malik in the run up to the WC. Need to develop bench strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    System indeed helps to pick the best possible players. Every team is built on combination - out of 16, may be 12 players are automatic choices, It's that 3/4/5 players that you need the system to back. I do follow Indian & AUS domestics - you can check every time before a major series, I make at least 14 correct predictions, including newbies like Joe Burns, Kuldeep, KL, Hazlewood or Renshaw - because I trust their stats & trust their system.

    Try yourself & pick 16 players for PAK from last 3 years domestics (in synonymous stats, that's Test = FC, List A = ODI, T20 = T20I), you'll laugh at your own selection, trust me.
    Have we debuted 16 players in FC cricket in the last 3 years?

    What percentage of domestic players whose domestic stats put them in the top 1-3 players in the country
    in FC cricket over several seasons failed to justify their Test selection?

    And is that percentage higher than say that of England? How many batsmen have they had to discard in the
    last five years?

    I supported Hasan because he was top wicket take in a domestic LA cup before he was selected. Check
    I supported Abbas because he topped the domestic FC bowling stats, Check
    I opposed Rahat because his domestic stats were inferior to many other more deserving candidates. Check

    The problem is the PCB is loathe to debut deserving players. Perfectly capable of throwing a Shinwari in at the deep end after one good match, but far too indifferent to long term performance.

    The real question would have to be, what is the alternative to picking the best performers from domestics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Have we debuted 16 players in FC cricket in the last 3 years?

    What percentage of domestic players whose domestic stats put them in the top 1-3 players in the country
    in FC cricket over several seasons failed to justify their Test selection?

    And is that percentage higher than say that of England? How many batsmen have they had to discard in the
    last five years?

    I supported Hasan because he was top wicket take in a domestic LA cup before he was selected. Check
    I supported Abbas because he topped the domestic FC bowling stats, Check
    I opposed Rahat because his domestic stats were inferior to many other more deserving candidates. Check

    The problem is the PCB is loathe to debut deserving players. Perfectly capable of throwing a Shinwari in at the deep end after one good match, but far too indifferent to long term performance.

    The real question would have to be, what is the alternative to picking the best performers from domestics?
    The alternative is what's going around for 70+ years - that's hope for a visionary Captain who'll put his head in firing line and give youngsters a chance. Many of the youngsters won't last long, but few would end up greats - that's works well if the ratio is like 10:1. If you look at history - only 5 Captains had been instrumental in bringing new players: Kardar, Mushtaq, Javed, Imran & Akram - rest basically kept "safe & reputed" players around protecting their chair.

    And great to have someone like Imran, who was an automatic choice for World XI for over a decade, had the eye for talent & he was fair in his selection. However, I'll take a chance to fix domestic cricket rather than expecting another Imran to emerge & take charge within this system - first one needs a bit vision & initiative, that has more than 50% chance to happen; 2nd one needs a miracle with next 0% chance of happening.

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    New talent must be given chances for at least 3 series, if Micky thought he had the talent to play for Pakistan then he must be given fair chances to expose his quality. Hope we had 2 or 3 new faces in near future and a new face of Pakistan team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    The alternative is what's going around for 70+ years - that's hope for a visionary Captain who'll put his head in firing line and give youngsters a chance. Many of the youngsters won't last long, but few would end up greats - that's works well if the ratio is like 10:1. If you look at history - only 5 Captains had been instrumental in bringing new players: Kardar, Mushtaq, Javed, Imran & Akram - rest basically kept "safe & reputed" players around protecting their chair.

    And great to have someone like Imran, who was an automatic choice for World XI for over a decade, had the eye for talent & he was fair in his selection. However, I'll take a chance to fix domestic cricket rather than expecting another Imran to emerge & take charge within this system - first one needs a bit vision & initiative, that has more than 50% chance to happen; 2nd one needs a miracle with next 0% chance of happening.
    You first have to make a case for why the domestic system is useless. See questions above. What is the percentage of bad selections that Pakistan have made in recent years, ie players who deserved a call up
    based on domestic performance and failed, and is that percentage markedly higher than that of other
    countries?

    Many wouldn't last long but few would end up great sounds like little more than a lottery. If someone is
    great, why would they not do well in domestics? Wasim Akram had amazing domestic stats and would
    have been a candidate for selection whether or not Imran had cherry picked him.

    The intervention of the captain mainly becomes important when the system itself is cooked, ie the PCB is
    playing favorites, or freezing out players like Sadaf or Fawad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    You first have to make a case for why the domestic system is useless. See questions above. What is the percentage of bad selections that Pakistan have made in recent years, ie players who deserved a call up
    based on domestic performance and failed, and is that percentage markedly higher than that of other
    countries?

    Many wouldn't last long but few would end up great sounds like little more than a lottery. If someone is
    great, why would they not do well in domestics? Wasim Akram had amazing domestic stats and would
    have been a candidate for selection whether or not Imran had cherry picked him.

    The intervention of the captain mainly becomes important when the system itself is cooked, ie the PCB is
    playing favorites, or freezing out players like Sadaf or Fawad.

    Selection is one tiny part of domestic system - out of a 16 men squad, 12 or 13 players often selects themselves. Without the selection committee, the coaching staffs can select a team of 16 & that'll be good squad as well. Domestic system has lot to do in development of players, and prepare them to compete at highest level, than just selecting them.

    The qualifier that you are using is completely opposite - it's not about who many new comers are being successful or failure at first show, rather it's the progression from their debut to next stage that measures the efficiency of any system. One shouldn't restrict Domestic system only to find talents & count how many of them are successful at first sight - in that regard, PAK domestics is better than AUS.

    I give a classic example - over last 20 years or so, I can categorically tell that PAK has unleashed highest number of youngsters in cricket. Let me put some names & you can check their first 5 matches -

    Md. Wasim, Azhar Mehmood, Ali Naqvi, Shahid Afridi, Shahid Nazir, Md, Zahid, Imran Nazir, Md. Sami, Yasir Hamid, YK, Faisal Iqbal, Wajahullah Wasti, Asim Kamal, Taufique Umar, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal ...... and I am sure I am missing few. Each of these players started with a bang in international career - apart from YK, hardly anyone survived 50 matches (in total) International career.

    The prime reason for that is domestic system - most of these players made the team at younger age bypassing the system (hardly any of those had a significant FC career at debut), and they did well with their natural ability. Then comes the 2nd year syndrome - once you are known to world (& you have hurt them), every team'll take notice of you, work on your game & expose you next time. This is where these players needed a system that could have made them ready for counter punch, to develop them into a pro sportsman life style that they can physically & mentally compete with rest of world. I can safely tell you (& @Junaids will agree on this, he has seen both), Zaheer Abbas wasn't much better than Umar Akmal in his 1st 1/2 years, but next few years he got the chance to develop the game at Gloucester, Umar went to Basit Ali & ALi Zia & Sui Southern Gas ...... YK is exceptional in this bunch, so is MoYo - one BIG reason is that, after baptism, they got Woolmer to groom them, something Babar has got in Arthur.

    Skill development is just one part, there are many other aspects, if I start to write, it'll become a novel. There are enough discussion on this.

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    Hafeez actually didnt do that bad in this tournament, he is very unpredictable which is bad. Malik is having a horrific slump this year. They have to step up

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Selection is one tiny part of domestic system - out of a 16 men squad, 12 or 13 players often selects themselves. Without the selection committee, the coaching staffs can select a team of 16 & that'll be good squad as well. Domestic system has lot to do in development of players, and prepare them to compete at highest level, than just selecting them.

    The qualifier that you are using is completely opposite - it's not about who many new comers are being successful or failure at first show, rather it's the progression from their debut to next stage that measures the efficiency of any system. One shouldn't restrict Domestic system only to find talents & count how many of them are successful at first sight - in that regard, PAK domestics is better than AUS.

    I give a classic example - over last 20 years or so, I can categorically tell that PAK has unleashed highest number of youngsters in cricket. Let me put some names & you can check their first 5 matches -

    Md. Wasim, Azhar Mehmood, Ali Naqvi, Shahid Afridi, Shahid Nazir, Md, Zahid, Imran Nazir, Md. Sami, Yasir Hamid, YK, Faisal Iqbal, Wajahullah Wasti, Asim Kamal, Taufique Umar, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal ...... and I am sure I am missing few. Each of these players started with a bang in international career - apart from YK, hardly anyone survived 50 matches (in total) International career.

    The prime reason for that is domestic system - most of these players made the team at younger age bypassing the system (hardly any of those had a significant FC career at debut), and they did well with their natural ability. Then comes the 2nd year syndrome - once you are known to world (& you have hurt them), every team'll take notice of you, work on your game & expose you next time. This is where these players needed a system that could have made them ready for counter punch, to develop them into a pro sportsman life style that they can physically & mentally compete with rest of world. I can safely tell you (& @Junaids will agree on this, he has seen both), Zaheer Abbas wasn't much better than Umar Akmal in his 1st 1/2 years, but next few years he got the chance to develop the game at Gloucester, Umar went to Basit Ali & ALi Zia & Sui Southern Gas ...... YK is exceptional in this bunch, so is MoYo - one BIG reason is that, after baptism, they got Woolmer to groom them, something Babar has got in Arthur.

    Skill development is just one part, there are many other aspects, if I start to write, it'll become a novel. There are enough discussion on this.
    I don't necessarily disagree with the thrust of the argument, but yet again, I am not sure what it means empirically speaking. Again, the players you mentioned are but a small subset of the total number of players who debuted in the past 20 years. How big a share do they represent? And is Pakistan worse than other countries in the number of players it fielded who did not play 50 Tests?

    That point aside, I am not sure that lasting more than 50 Tests is necessarily the only relevant benchmark. Many of these players played key roles in some famous victories, and/or put in remarkable performances. Afridi in India, Mehmoud in South Africa, Sami in New Zealand. The problem often was not the fact that they were selected, but that they were persevered with too long. That's where other boards are more ruthless, and, I think, mostly better.

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