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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    I dont think the deal is as bad you make out, the main problem is that in the main our businessman havent taken advantage of the availing opportunities but i take your point but still you conveniently ignored my question again about whether the deal would have been done under both civilian or millitary rule? Your original point was that only the millitary rule could have led to the FTA.
    This is why that economics lecture was important. You don't seem to appreciate the gravity of the damage the FTA can do and has done to this point. It's one of the top three worst economic decisions in Pakistan's history. Signing an FTA at such an early stage in your growth cycle is essentially shutting down the only avenue that has been successfully used to transition from a low income country to a high income one. That FTA essentially lowered the ceiling for how much room their is for the Pakistani economy to develop. I didn't conveniently ignore anything, I specifically answered the question you're referring to in the post following the one you quoted but to reiterate, it's possible but less likely because unlike a dictator, a civilian leader would alienate the entire industrial sector in one fell swoop, losing the support of some of the richest and most influential people in the country. My original point was not that only military rule could have led to the FTA, it was that military rule is just as bad, and on the economic front even worse, as civilian rules and this FTA is proof of that.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    Economists themselves hardly agree on anything. But to my understanding, the progress in the past two decades owes a lot to FDI , where foreigners already at an advanced stage invest and produce in a cheap raw-material and labor set up.
    It has but mostly in China which is a special case because its sheer size, and therefore the size of its market, gives it a degree of leverage over foreign investors that smaller countries don't have. The most recent examples of decent sized countries (by no means comparable to China) that successfully avoided the middle income trap and made the transition from third world to developed are Korea and Japan, both of whom virtually shut themselves to foreign investment. Foreign investment can be beneficial but only if very carefully managed, the key being to accept foreign money but not their corporations.

    In other countries, it has produced growth but most of those countries have not yet reached the point where the long term impacts start manifesting themselves. The ones that have reached that point are mostly stuck in middle income traps.

    I still differ with you on the China FTA. When was the FTA signed actually? And how much better was Pakistan's growth rate prior to FTA with China?
    2007. Growth rates were similar to current ones(4-6% range) but those are not important. What's important are the long term implications of the deindustrialization spurred by the FTA.

    Corruption to the extent that it leaves our energy very costly, it deprives country of basic infrastructure has its consequences.
    Not a game changer. Relatively minor issue to overcome once someone finally decides to. You can't go back on an FTA that easily and you can't develop your local manufacturing sector without at least initially having to swallow the bitter pill of protectionism and the associated inefficiencies.

    I don't know what country you are talking about but i don't think any of these countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Turkey or any other were having governance levels of Pakistan when they made growth.
    With the exception of Vietnam which is a Chinese style top heavy communist states, all of those countries are stuck in middle income traps, for decades in the case of Malaysia and Turkey. They had plenty of corruption during their early years. Indonesia and Malaysia still do with Malaysia's 1MDB scandal being particularly notable because anything in Pakistan pales in comparison to the sheer scale of the corruption in that particular case.

    I think of this process as more uniform and simultaneous in the current age. Countries like Vietnam and Malaysia have transformed within years than decades.
    Vietnam is still a low income country with economic indicators only marginally superior to Pakistan's. Malaysia started their growth spurt around the same time as Korea but got stuck in the middle income trap which Korea avoided and proceeded to join the ranks of first world nations. The fundamental difference in their economic models was that Korea chose to develop local manufacturing enterprises into globally competitive ones (in a political system which, at the time, was at least as corrupt as ours is now) while Malaysia chose to position itself as a cheap manufacturing base for western and Japanese manufacturers, getting stuck in the middle income trap when the easy growth stage was over.

    Tell me more about the country and then we will proceed further.
    United States, between just after civil war and 1900. This was when their economy underwent its fastest growth spurt and they developed into the largest and most prosperous economy in the world by ~1890.
    Last edited by DW44; 9th August 2017 at 22:29.


    Roses are red
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    *Redacted*

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    @DW44, Investors are also reluctant to invest in industry because of high cost of production and in-security . Don't you think governance takes the blame here? Even our rice and cotton exports are decreasing because old seeds have become virus prone, don't you think we can afford even this level of research? Even India has introduced far better varieties of seeds.
    Ideally, those efforts should be led by the government. The common theme with success stories like the US, Korea, Japan or Germany is how actively the government was involved in moving money around and making sure it found its way where it was most needed. While the governments we've had so far have proven woefully inept at that, the FTA with China means that if we ever do get a government eventually that's up to the task, their hands will be tied because they can't offer anywhere near the level of protection to nascent domestic industry that the Americans, Koreans, Brits or Japanese did. You will always be fighting a losing battle.

    Regarding your point about seeds, at this point it's better to license research already done elsewhere instead of throwing good money reinventing the wheel. I doubt the problem is unique to Pakistan and you can easily license the rights to pest resistant seeds developed elsewhere. That's what a lot of Pakistani enterprises already do. PEL, for instance, buys the designs for their power transformers wholesale from China instead of wasting limited resources developing something already developed elsewhere.


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  4. #244
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    @DW44, it's a lazy argument.
    You shut yourself to the outside world.... basically you deny most of the population of all the decent stuff available to the rich and powerful.

    You shut them out, they will shut you out. Where are you going to sell your goods that you supposedly will make locally.

    It's about competitive edge. I am all for bringing up local industries, but they have to be making quality that people want and at the right price. Otherwise you can chuck whole lot of money down the drain propping up industries that cannot stand on their feet.

    Ultimately it's down to the consumer.... let them be the best judge.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    @DW44, it's a lazy argument.
    You shut yourself to the outside world.... basically you deny most of the population of all the decent stuff available to the rich and powerful.
    That's the bitter price you have to pay. If it was a walk in the park, every country would be a first world country. When Korea was at Pakistan's current level of development, people were encouraged to report anyone they saw smoking imported cigarretes, that's the extent of the sacrifice you have to make at the early stages of development. Things get easier as the manufacturing sector grows and trade restrictions are gradually eased.


    You shut them out, they will shut you out. Where are you going to sell your goods that you supposedly will make locally.
    This is where your foreign policy comes into play and where Pakistan fails. European countries, with the exception of Germany, used colonialism to create captive markets for their manufacturers. The US used it's large internal market. Neither of those is now possible since colonialism is a thing of the past and the internal market method is extremely hard to successfully pull off. The only country that has had success with it in recent times is China.

    In such a situation, you do what Korea, Taiwan and Japan do which is to enter an alliance with a major economic power and extract preferential trade arrangements in return for playing second fiddle to them, at least in the short term. Unfortunately, our foreign policy mandarins have put us in a spot where that's no longer possible so I guess, enjoy.


    It's about competitive edge. I am all for bringing up local industries, but they have to be making quality that people want and at the right price. Otherwise you can chuck whole lot of money down the drain propping up industries that cannot stand on their feet.

    Ultimately it's down to the consumer.... let them be the best judge.
    That takes time. Samsung started off selling dried fish in 1938. It took 60 years of careful nurturing in a heavily protected environment before they matured to the point where they could compete globally in the mid 90s. Sharp started off making pencil sharpeners. Contrary to neoliberal economic theory, manufacturers do not naturally develop into competitive entities, they require decades of protection and very careful micromanagement before they can compete. With the exception of Hong Kong and the Netherlands, every single developed country today heavily protected their local manufacturers, from Britain in the 17th century to China today, until they were technologically competent enough to compete with the established players. A 6 year old can not enter the workforce and expect to compete reasonably against people with PhDs on the job market. He needs to protected and nurtured until he has a PhD of his own. BTW, that example isn't one I just came up with, it's from Ha Joon Chang, arguably the foremost authority on development economics today.
    Last edited by DW44; 9th August 2017 at 23:07.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    This is why that economics lecture was important. You don't seem to appreciate the gravity of the damage the FTA can do and has done to this point. It's one of the top three worst economic decisions in Pakistan's history. Signing an FTA at such an early stage in your growth cycle is essentially shutting down the only avenue that has been successfully used to transition from a low income country to a high income one. That FTA essentially lowered the ceiling for how much room their is for the Pakistani economy to develop. I didn't conveniently ignore anything, I specifically answered the question you're referring to in the post following the one you quoted but to reiterate, it's possible but less likely because unlike a dictator, a civilian leader would alienate the entire industrial sector in one fell swoop, losing the support of some of the richest and most influential people in the country. My original point was not that only military rule could have led to the FTA, it was that military rule is just as bad, and on the economic front even worse, as civilian rules and this FTA is proof of that.
    The interest of local industries has to be balanced with the interest of local consumers. If we go with your argument that we protect local industries, then the consumer ends up paying more for inferior goods and there is no pressure on the industries to become competitive. The protection also means consumers pay more, which means less disposable income for the lower and middle classes and as you will know after your lectures on economics, one of the great drivers of economic growth is more disposable income for particularly the middle class. The question that has to be asked is even without FTA, would these businesses survived for long without the ability to innovate to become competitive. As Britain and others have shown, you can make a living in the world through service industries because its very difficult to out do the Chinese, Koreans etc on cost because of their work ethic based on their culture so what you do is find other ways to develop you economies. You may have some valid points but please stop banging the drum because there others who also understand economic theory.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    The interest of local industries has to be balanced with the interest of local consumers. If we go with your argument that we protect local industries, then the consumer ends up paying more for inferior goods and there is no pressure on the industries to become competitive.
    A bitter pill you have to swallow early on. Until you're at least an upper middle income country, you have to favor producers over consumers or you will end up like Pakistan with ridiculous trade deficits. The pressure on industries to be competitive comes from the state. The difference between Korea and Brazil, for instance, is that Brazil put up trade barriers and called it a day. Korea made that protection conditional on export volumes and the local firms investing in specific sectors. Guess which one pulled it off.


    The protection also means consumers pay more, which means less disposable income for the lower and middle classes and as you will know after your lectures on economics, one of the great drivers of economic growth is more disposable income for particularly the middle class.
    Again, producers take precedent over consumers during the early stages of development. If you're concerned with consumer rights, you'll continue importing and running trade deficits. Favoring producers creates short term pain for long term gain. The great driver of growth in low income countries is investment, not consumer spending. The consumer spending heavy developing countries tend to have underlying structural imbalances. Pakistan and Indonesia, for instance, have very high consumer spending as a percentage of GDP. China, on the other hand, has very low rates of consumer spending but ridiculously high investment rates(at it's peak, close to 50% of GDP). It's the same story for Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Japan who had high saving (as opposed to consumer spending) and investment rates but low consumer spending. Consumer spending becomes relevant once per capita income figures are high enough for the consumers' purchasing power to be notable.


    The question that has to be asked is even without FTA, would these businesses survived for long without the ability to innovate to become competitive.
    Probably but they wouldn't have done that well which would have been a favorable outcome. Due to the inherently high productivity growth in manufacturing, it's preferable to have an inefficient manufacturing base than to not have one at all with consumers fulfilling their needs through imports.


    As Britain and others have shown, you can make a living in the world through service industries because its very difficult to out do the Chinese, Koreans etc on cost because of their work ethic based on their culture so what you do is find other ways to develop you economies. You may have some valid points but please stop banging the drum because there others who also understand economic theory.
    Britain only moved to services once it was already a developed country. It got there the same way China and Korea did, by protecting local manufacturers until they were competitive and then opening up. Koreans don't compete on cost, they compete on technology. China too is now at a stage where they don't have a cost advantage (Mexico for one is a cheaper destination for manufacturers) so they're inveting heavily in research and development. The one country that has tried to skip manufacturing altogether and go services is India. Needless to say, it did not work out well.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  8. #248
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    Haven't read some replies on this thread about development of the economy, protecting local companies, innovation etc. I am sorry to say but this PMLN offers nothing of this sort as they are only concerned about the next election. More then that, they have lack of vision, capacity to deliver and also are over dependent on the Chinese.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    A bitter pill you have to swallow early on. Until you're at least an upper middle income country, you have to favor producers over consumers or you will end up like Pakistan with ridiculous trade deficits. The pressure on industries to be competitive comes from the state. The difference between Korea and Brazil, for instance, is that Brazil put up trade barriers and called it a day. Korea made that protection conditional on export volumes and the local firms investing in specific sectors. Guess which one pulled it off.



    Again, producers take precedent over consumers during the early stages of development. If you're concerned with consumer rights, you'll continue importing and running trade deficits. Favoring producers creates short term pain for long term gain. The great driver of growth in low income countries is investment, not consumer spending. The consumer spending heavy developing countries tend to have underlying structural imbalances. Pakistan and Indonesia, for instance, have very high consumer spending as a percentage of GDP. China, on the other hand, has very low rates of consumer spending but ridiculously high investment rates(at it's peak, close to 50% of GDP). It's the same story for Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Japan who had high saving (as opposed to consumer spending) and investment rates but low consumer spending. Consumer spending becomes relevant once per capita income figures are high enough for the consumers' purchasing power to be notable.



    Probably but they wouldn't have done that well which would have been a favorable outcome. Due to the inherently high productivity growth in manufacturing, it's preferable to have an inefficient manufacturing base than to not have one at all with consumers fulfilling their needs through imports.




    Britain only moved to services once it was already a developed country. It got there the same way China and Korea did, by protecting local manufacturers until they were competitive and then opening up. Koreans don't compete on cost, they compete on technology. China too is now at a stage where they don't have a cost advantage (Mexico for one is a cheaper destination for manufacturers) so they're inveting heavily in research and development. The one country that has tried to skip manufacturing altogether and go services is India. Needless to say, it did not work out well.
    The mindset of producers is garbage, Government is not encouraging competitive industry rather taking sums for maintaining monopolies and cartels.

    A country where mehran is same and sells from 1980s, what long term/early swallowing are you talking about? Isn't 37 years a long term period?
    Last edited by Hamza_; 9th August 2017 at 23:38.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Haven't read some replies on this thread about development of the economy, protecting local companies, innovation etc. I am sorry to say but this PMLN offers nothing of this sort as they are only concerned about the next election. More then that, they have lack of vision, capacity to deliver and also are over dependent on the Chinese.
    No PML-N fan really in economics but what has PTI got to offer?

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza_ View Post
    The mindset of producers is garbage, Government is not encouraging competitive industry rather taking sums for maintaining monopolies and cartels.

    A country where mehran is same and sells from 1980s, what long term are you talking about? Isn't 37 years a long term period?
    That's a failure of the government. Producers need to be kept on the straight and narrow for decades before they become competitive. The solution isn't to shut off the possibility to do that at a future point when conditions are better, it's to create a system where the government is accountable and has to do the right thing or get voted out. And to answer your question, no, 37 years isn't terribly long. Samsung and LG took about 60 years and their greatest achievement is the breakneck pace at which they developed.
    Last edited by DW44; 9th August 2017 at 23:43.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    That's a failure of the government. Producers need to be kept on the straight and narrow for decades before they become competitive. The solution isn't to shut off the possibility to do that at a future point when conditions are better, it's to create a system where the government is accountable and has to do the right thing or get voted out. And to answer your question, no, 37 years isn't terribly long. Samsung and LG took about 60 years and their greatest achievement is the breakneck pace at which they developed.
    It certainly is long considering the car is NOT sold anywhere else in the world. Your theory of economics and developing secondary sector is very critical, you don't want your country to be reliant on imports. But governments are not taking country any forward, corruption is at mass scale and this includes media.

    You don't want consumer exploitation either so to make industries competitive you will have to raise up customer power, Which can be by welcoming new players in the market or imports. As new entrants enter, the competitiveness will increase as the players will have to differentiate and provide quality.

    I'm very much in favor of promoting the secondary sector, Pakistan have almost seem to forgotten this all important sector, As you said service sector prospers when secondary sector is flourishing, How do you provide jobs and accommodate service sector if they don't have anything to work with.
    Last edited by Hamza_; 10th August 2017 at 00:32.

  13. #253
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    Our leaders are more concerned with keeping their power than about helping the people of their country.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyGetsBuckets View Post
    Our leaders are more concerned with keeping their power than about helping the people of their country.
    Simple as that. And this includes Imran and Nawaz, both.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza_ View Post
    No PML-N fan really in economics but what has PTI got to offer?
    At federal level, they have not had an opportunity so can not comment. They do have the likes of Asad Umar so I expect better performance.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    At federal level, they have not had an opportunity so can not comment. They do have the likes of Asad Umar so I expect better performance.
    Very unlikely. Media-Government Hospitals are all corrupt, you need mass level stuff.

    Evaluation of sif-arshi people on different important posts and all that. Do you know how much bribes media channels take? Corruption is in grass root, That oil tanker incident was an example of this.

    PTI is backed up by guys like Shah Mehmood, All TTFs have joined the party.

  17. #257
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    So in one day we saw:

    - Attacks on at least 5 channels by PMLN supporters and some abusing Imran Khan on LIVE tv
    - Money thrown at poor supporters like slaves
    - Deputy speaker asking his supporters to attack/kill Imran Khan (jahan nazar aaye thok dou)
    - PMLN justifying HALAL dance and music
    - Extreme misuse of government machinery by Punjab government
    - Propaganda by PMLN social media posting pictures from Brazil to Denmark, Mumtaz Qadri funeral etc etc
    - Nawaz Sharif himself in container and blocking roads which had been heavily criticised.
    - Verbal attacks against Supreme court judges

    I completely understand some of this stuff reflects mentality of our nation which is not limited to a party but hopefully all those criticising PTI for agitation politics, dharnay, blocked roads, attack on media understand that these kind of things do happen in political rallies and no Imran Khan did not introduce all this.

    Only difference is that Imran Khan's protests were to ensure rigging & corruption allegations were investigated whereas Nawaz Sharif is protesting against decision of top 5 Supreme Court judges while his party is still ruling Pakistana and Punjab.

    This rally is purely Nawaz Sharif's personal glorification and that too after being disqualified on corruption charges which is disgraceful!

  18. #258
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    Was that the great Nawaz march and protest that would force the SC to change it's decision!!!? Most people have more relatives getting together at Eid then the 200 paid ones who turned up to support our now former PM He just made a fool of himself, again! Did more people attend the supposed protest against the SC decision then appears?
    Last edited by PakLFC; 10th August 2017 at 01:36.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza_ View Post
    Very unlikely. Media-Government Hospitals are all corrupt, you need mass level stuff.

    Evaluation of sif-arshi people on different important posts and all that. Do you know how much bribes media channels take? Corruption is in grass root, That oil tanker incident was an example of this.

    PTI is backed up by guys like Shah Mehmood, All TTFs have joined the party.
    Not a huge fan but if Shah Mahmood Qureshi was in PMLN, he would probably be one of their MOST respected party members in presence of filth like Hanif Abbasi, Rana Sanaullah, Abid Sher Ali, Talal Ch, Mian Manan, Maiza, Danial Aziz, Kh Asif, Saad Rafiq etc

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza_ View Post
    Simple as that. And this includes Imran and Nawaz, both.
    It hurts to watch other countries develop and prosper. I yearn for the day Pakistan will be a prosperous nation.

  21. #261
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    Nawaz irked by low attendance in GT Road March, refuses to meet party officials at Punjab House.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  22. #262
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    OFF TOPIC: Latest gem from Govt. of Pakistan saw an Ad on Jung newspaper for every WC win they showed the person or team pic holding the cup but for 1992 WC they just posted trophy pic. Govt. of Pakistan's love for IK is altogether on another level.
    http://e.jang.com.pk/08-10-2017/Laho...ges/page23.jpg

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Not a huge fan but if Shah Mahmood Qureshi was in PMLN, he would probably be one of their MOST respected party members in presence of filth like Hanif Abbasi, Rana Sanaullah, Abid Sher Ali, Talal Ch, Mian Manan, Maiza, Danial Aziz, Kh Asif, Saad Rafiq etc
    He's a Noora, who's just decided to show his face after weeks of absence. His remarks to me before the Panama judgement were ''what's your freaking excuse for supporting PTI'', when I merely requested he name the PMLN ''electables'' as opposed to the alleged PTI non-electables that he kept on droning on and on about. He refused to even name 1.

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    He's a Noora, who's just decided to show his face after weeks of absence. His remarks to me before the Panama judgement were ''what's your freaking excuse for supporting PTI'', when I merely requested he name the PMLN ''electables'' as opposed to the alleged PTI non-electables that he kept on droning on and on about. He refused to even name 1.
    Say what you want about SMQ being a TTF and what not, but he's the only one in the PPP govt or even PMLN opposition to come out with any credit in the Raymond Davis saga, to the detriment of his own career.

  25. #265
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    So was coming back from my collage through the gt road, The NAACH GAANA has begun, some people were worried about the blockage of road even though a small amount has gathered yet but it looked like people weren't really expecting the blockage...

    the worst part is, that their was only one U turn that has been blocked and then there's this HIGH COURT ROAD through which you may escape, but once you've crossed this place, you want be able to go back and would've to attend the jalsa...

    The roads were meant to be really busy due to A/O level results but people are trying their best to find an alternative,,,


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza_ View Post
    PTI is backed up by guys like Shah Mehmood, All TTFs have joined the party.
    Do read Raymond Davis book exposing everyone from Nawaz to Zardari and from Govt to ISI but he had nothing to say against Shah Mehmood who decided to resign instead of joining these big guys who let him go.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  27. #267
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    So Ch Nisar is angry again? He was attending the session in National Assembly today while all other PMLN Punjab leadership is busy with the march...


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    So Ch Nisar is angry again? He was attending the session in National Assembly today while all other PMLN Punjab leadership is busy with the march...
    Ch Nisar not happy to be overlooked for the PM job.

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    So Ch Nisar is angry again? He was attending the session in National Assembly today while all other PMLN Punjab leadership is busy with the march...
    didnt he say he will resign and leave politics forever when Panama decision is announced?

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Ch Nisar not happy to be overlooked for the PM job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    didnt he say he will resign and leave politics forever when Panama decision is announced?
    Yea he did say that but job is half done he decided not to become a minister again but he is still member of NA. According to reports he assured Establishment that NS march will go through Motorway instead of GT road but NS denied his suggestion so Ch Nisar isn't standing there with him anymore. Ch Nisar warned NS multiple times not to attacks institutions and accept the verdict but too many derbaris planted by Marian are pumping Mian sahab and telling him he is the next coming of mandela he can stand against SC and Army because aam awaam is with him...


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  31. #271
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  32. #272
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  33. #273
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    PMLN is finished now. I see them losing half of their seats in Punjab to PTI; if elections are fairly conducted. Pakistanis tend to salute the rising sun and not the sun on its way out.

  34. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post





    I love it, great analogies.

  35. #275
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  36. #276
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    hahah happy and listening to PepsiBattleOfTheBands,,chalo tu sahi has been sung ,,maza aaraha ha,ns k failure awr gaan sun k. @WebGuru...

  37. #277
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    Gujranwala hun tera he aasra....


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  38. #278
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    This is exactly like when a high school kid starts to brag about his 'qualification'

    Desperation is real !!!
    Last edited by ahmedwaqas92; 10th August 2017 at 11:50.

  39. #279
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    Loving this epic embarrassment for Nooras

  40. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post



    This is exactly like when a high school kid starts to brag about his 'qualification'

    Desperation is real !!!
    She is trying to tell us that these 500 people are equal to half a million


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  41. #281
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    Multiple speeches skipped by NS thanks to low crowd


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  42. #282
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    Oops! Did Nawaz Sharif just steel PTI Naara of 'Naya Pakistan'

    What's Next? Roti Kapra aur Makaan!


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  43. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Oops! Did Nawaz Sharif just steel PTI Naara of 'Naya Pakistan'

    What's Next? Roti Kapra aur Makaan!
    This man has gone crazy! I always believed that he was a narcicist and he latest behaviour affirms this belief.

  44. #284
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    Another embarrassing day for N league, their only hope is Gujranwala and Lahore now.

  45. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    This man has gone crazy! I always believed that he was a narcicist and he latest behaviour affirms this belief.
    Chalo acha he isne apni value dekhne ka shoq poora kerlya


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  46. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post



    This is exactly like when a high school kid starts to brag about his 'qualification'

    Desperation is real !!!
    There's usually more people in Dina than that, if anything he's kept them away. He's turning toxic

  47. #287
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    Shameful mission failed badly #009


    Quote Originally Posted by Arsal_AK View Post
    If Hafeez can get two hundreds in a game anyone can.

  48. #288
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    PMLN really need to fire their graphic designing team



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  49. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim_khan View Post
    There's usually more people in Dina than that, if anything he's kept them away. He's turning toxic
    The only people more desperate than NS is GEO.

  50. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    PMLN really need to fire their graphic designing team

    hahahaha..I cant believe they got some munshi patwari to russle this up lol..

  51. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim_khan View Post
    There's usually more people in Dina than that, if anything he's kept them away. He's turning toxic
    funny thing is that area voted mostly for PTI but got screwed over due to PMLN's shenanigans..

  52. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Oops! Did Nawaz Sharif just steel PTI Naara of 'Naya Pakistan'

    What's Next? Roti Kapra aur Makaan!
    Gentlemen ! Welcome Volume 10 of JIT Report. That's inevitable. Just that MNS is catalysing the process.

    No one is helping him out for Syasi Shahadat even after his shameless exploitations.

  53. #293
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    This extremely embarrasing...


    If life on earth is temporary...what make you think that your problems are permanent?

  54. #294
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    In summary so far this demonstration of power has been a complete failure and so has been the allegations of AG to malign the image of IK.

    Without any Sharif at the helm of PMLN I see it difficult for them to retain their vote bank. IK should not let this opportunity go, firstly he should ensure that the KPK government till next election is top notch. In other words firstly he should ensure he retains the vote bank in KPK which looks highly likely.

    Next is he should go after ECP to bring in changes to electoral process. He already has given ECP a list of actions that needs implementing to ensure the rigging in next elections is curtailed to a minimum. Now he should pursue ECP to make sure the changes are implemented. Having heard IK recently he will not tolerate any rigging in elections and raise concern afterwards.

    NA120 is now the next big thing to happen. PMLN hasn't yet nominated a candidate, although I believe PMLN will win NA120 easily, IK should still ensure the ECP takes measures to ensure rigging is curtailed. The margin of victory will be very crucial.

  55. #295
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    Attendence is more than 400 for sure which was being reported earlier.

  56. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by last_knight View Post
    Gentlemen ! Welcome Volume 10 of JIT Report. That's inevitable. Just that MNS is catalysing the process.

    No one is helping him out for Syasi Shahadat even after his shameless exploitations.
    Let's just hope GHQ stay calm and stay away from this mess. NS is going to be zaleelified more in upcoming months through legal process...


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  57. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by coooolali View Post



    Attendence is more than 400 for sure which was being reported earlier.
    I have family in Jhelum; apparently the attendance is very low.

  58. #298
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  59. #299
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    Nawaz Sharif welcomed with "Chor aye, Chor aye" slogans as he entered in Jehlum.




    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  60. #300
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    NS making harsh remarks against the SC.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  61. #301
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    what is he trying to prove? this rally makes zero sense. This is a convicted PM , which is a shame that normal people would want to forget about. But NS is blaming everyone for his own mistakes. What a disgrace of a a man.

  62. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Nawaz Sharif welcomed with "Chor aye, Chor aye" slogans as he entered in Jehlum.


    Epic stuff. Day made.

  63. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    He's a Noora, who's just decided to show his face after weeks of absence. His remarks to me before the Panama judgement were ''what's your freaking excuse for supporting PTI'', when I merely requested he name the PMLN ''electables'' as opposed to the alleged PTI non-electables that he kept on droning on and on about. He refused to even name 1.
    Why would I name out my area?

  64. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    I have family in Jhelum; apparently the attendance is very low.
    Public is intelligent these days noone wants to come out in support of a Convict other than his blind supporters.

  65. #305
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    Good ... Pro PTI media announcing this March a failure. .. this media cheated me in 2013 when I disregarded Gallup polls and trusted this pro pti media.

    This anti-reality reporting creates the perception of rigging among pti's well wishers...
    As this does not make sense that IK fetches billions in his "jalsa" while NS hardly gets 150 heads and still wins 100% of the seats along the GT road.

    And somehow pppp comes second...


    Q: Why IK is in deep pain, while phatechar NS is sinking?

  66. #306
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    The biggest "gift" this man can give the people of Pakistan is to submit himself to the police and ask to be jailed for life.

  67. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    what is he trying to prove? this rally makes zero sense. This is a convicted PM , which is a shame that normal people would want to forget about. But NS is blaming everyone for his own mistakes. What a disgrace of a a man.
    He raised couple of valid questions during the march, maybe addressing those questions would be little helpful.

  68. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    NS making harsh remarks against the SC.
    SC is just a tool of establishment...and I do not if anyone can deny this.

  69. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Do read Raymond Davis book exposing everyone from Nawaz to Zardari and from Govt to ISI but he had nothing to say against Shah Mehmood who decided to resign instead of joining these big guys who let him go.
    Having read extracts from the book, I have found respect for SMQ that i never had before. Can @Hamza_ name even noora that would resign on a point of principle. Nooras are born losers, money is their God.

  70. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    The biggest "gift" this man can give the people of Pakistan is to submit himself to the police and ask to be jailed for life.
    He was sent to jail by mush, but then mush begged him to make a deal, but he refused...
    You can never count him out.

  71. #311
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    Lol Im deriving a lot of satsifaction

    The charlatan Nawaz Sharif and his band of crooks are being humiliated each day

    Such embarassment for them.

    'Gali Gali mai shor hai... Nawaz Sharif chor hai!"

  72. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Having read extracts from the book, I have found respect for SMQ that i never had before. Can @Hamza_ name even noora that would resign on a point of principle. Nooras are born losers, money is their God.
    Ch. Nisar resigned on principle, it was accepted, and then he just kinda hung around, in the same role. Go figure.

  73. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    SC is just a tool of establishment...and I do not if anyone can deny this.
    haha

    Everyone who dares say sth against corrupt Nawaz Sharif is a tool of the establishment for you

    Nawaz Sharif is just a tool though

  74. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    He was sent to jail by mush, but then mush begged him to make a deal, but he refused...
    You can never count him out.
    Lol at refusing the deal #hariri

  75. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    He was sent to jail by mush, but then mush begged him to make a deal, but he refused...
    You can never count him out.
    I will rephrase my statement.

    The crook that is NS should give the biggest 'gift' to the country by submitting himself to the police and demand to be jailed for life whereas those with mental health issues, where ever they may be in the world, should be given care and treatment.

  76. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Let's just hope GHQ stay calm and stay away from this mess. NS is going to be zaleelified more in upcoming months through legal process...
    I think something more fishy is going on. Someone "WITHIN" PMLn has this master plan for getting rid of Sharif. No other reasonable explanation for poor attendances at rally. I see few posts here mentioning the PMLn stronghold in Gujranwala and how attendance there will grow exponentially. But I disagree. Turn out will remain POOR, it might be worse even.

    I am starting to get the feeling that a group in PMLn is manipulating MNS into harakari. Being incompetent as he is, he can't decipher.

    Waiting to see much hyped crowd at Gujranwala. Which I think is not going to happen.

  77. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by last_knight View Post
    I think something more fishy is going on. Someone "WITHIN" PMLn has this master plan for getting rid of Sharif. No other reasonable explanation for poor attendances at rally. I see few posts here mentioning the PMLn stronghold in Gujranwala and how attendance there will grow exponentially. But I disagree. Turn out will remain POOR, it might be worse even.

    I am starting to get the feeling that a group in PMLn is manipulating MNS into harakari. Being incompetent as he is, he can't decipher.

    Waiting to see much hyped crowd at Gujranwala. Which I think is not going to happen.
    Shahbaz and Ch Nisar group at work against Maryam and papa?


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  78. #318
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    baby ghuse main



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  79. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Shahbaz and Ch Nisar group at work against Maryam and papa?
    Usual Suspects. Gujranwala will explain it. My prediction is that crowd at GJW will be not very thick.

    Hanooz Dilli Duur Ast

  80. #320
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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