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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    @Yossarian in the north of england and west yorkshire in particular. Brits of Pakistani origin do dominate the drug trade. Just like in London its mostly Afro Caribbean Brits who dominate the drug trade. And romanian and bulgarian gangs that dominate human trafficking and the illegal sex trade in the U.K.

    A lot of the drug dealing comes from glorification of gang culture in the inner city deprived areas of places like London Birmingham Bradford amongst youth especially in caribbean and pakistani communities.

    Class education and economic status plays a big part too ofc. The Brit Pakistanis and Afro Caribbeans who live in leafy villages and middle classsuburbs having tea and scones with kathy and jon and have well paid professional jobs rarely get into these type of nefarious activities. And are living in a different world to those who are slugging it out in the inner city.
    Would you class Heaton Village/Frizinghall/ Shipley as leafy Villages

    O
    Also I have not seen a single inner City Bradford based grooming gang have you?

    They are all in the Subarbs of Keighley.Or Beaston in Leeds or Huddersfield.
    Last edited by mani1; 11th August 2017 at 13:25.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    This is a complex issue which sadly gets hijacked by various commentators for political and ideological purposes whenever these stories appear. People will cherrypick the numbers when in reality, statistics about sexual abuse and the ethnicity of perpetrators are patchy, drawn from limited number of areas and hard to draw national conclusions from.

    1) Some believe race or religion solely predisposes these men to sexual abuse but ignore socio-economics and local demographics. One of the reasons why there's an over-representation of Asian men in these grooming cases is because of how they dominate the "night-time economy", i.e. taxi driving, drug dealing and takeaways. Of course this isn't the case nationally, but in some parts of the North of England it is the case.

    2) Sexual abuse also takes different forms. Child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas says attacks in isolation and through online tend to be perpetrated by white men. However, the transferring of girls among young men for sex involves Pakistani men.

    3) There are however some cultural factors at play too and shouldn't be swept under the carpet or dismissed as racist. These Asian groomers are often guilty of racism themselves - the vast majority of their victims are white ! There are disparities between the age of consent in the UK and some of these countries these men originate from. They come from patriarchal societies where women are treated as second-class citizens who men have a birthrate to dominate than treat as equals in the household.

    When you have a religious culture that lends itself to a high degree of sexual repression and makes the topic of sex taboo, then its not surprising that it manifests itself in dangerous and sickening ways in testosterone-charged men.

    Finally, the justice system repeatedly lets down victims of every background. When conviction rates are so low and these vulnerable girls, often from deprived and unstable backgrounds, are targeted by men (be it Asian gangs or white celebrities) who know they'll be too intimidated to report them then a culture of impunity develops. Savile was never brought to book. I hope we learn the right lessons from this and prevent a serious issue from devolving into the usual ideological mudslinging.
    POTW. Markhor tends to be a much needed cool head in such threads.

    Also a question, how is that over-representation explained by the night time economy ? I'd say it's more n line with these points which you've made:

    3) There are however some cultural factors at play too and shouldn't be swept under the carpet or dismissed as racist. These Asian groomers are often guilty of racism themselves - the vast majority of their victims are white ! There are disparities between the age of consent in the UK and some of these countries these men originate from. They come from patriarchal societies where women are treated as second-class citizens who men have a birthrate to dominate than treat as equals in the household.

    When you have a religious culture that lends itself to a high degree of sexual repression and makes the topic of sex taboo, then its not surprising that it manifests itself in dangerous and sickening ways in testosterone-charged men.
    But if you meant that the night time economy is used to exploit these individuals then I agree with that but not sure how it linked to the over-representation part.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  3. #83
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    The thing no one has yet to explain is that the figures posted by the CSE showed blacks as being the most over represented yet I am yet to see any headline news or Politicions speaking out on regards to this.

    All I have heards is from the top Cameron "British Society Has Failed Young Black Males" Or the old cheanut daddy didnt love them enough etc.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I've never heard of the dogma where girls who are showing skin are considered slags or worthless, but then I grew up in a decent household not an underprivileged one so perhaps I'm out of the loop. Jadz also mentioned yesterday that some mothers or sisters encouraged it, which sounds ludicrous to me, but I can only speak for my family, who knows, maybe it's different for others. It would be helpful if people could share their experiences here so we could relate.

    That said, I do know that in Pakistan if they view porn movies they assume white girls are all like that and presumably will perform like a seal. That's slightly different though as I would think they'd try it on with the first woman they saw when they stepped off a plane and get slapped in the face. I think this grooming business is a lot more calculated and seedy.
    Growing up in the inner city such women were looked upon as slags but also highly desirable, however that definition was not limited to specific ethnic minorities but the whole neighbourhood in general. No one encourages dodgy behaviour and most tend to be against their children having any relationship with the "slags" because it would be a "baysti" on the family but there are racist undertones which casually emphasise a narrative that such women are inferior, but that may also be inspired by looking down on the chavs and not wanting anything to do with them because in general every one doesn't like them. But the casual racism is definitely an issue regardless, although am not sure to what extent that is the case at the moment although I'd like to think things are a bit better in my city anyway. Quiet a few of my mates are married to white women from the inner city neighbourhood as well.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Growing up in the inner city such women were looked upon as slags but also highly desirable, however that definition was not limited to specific ethnic minorities but the whole neighbourhood in general. No one encourages dodgy behaviour and most tend to be against their children having any relationship with the "slags" because it would be a "baysti" on the family but there are racist undertones which casually emphasise a narrative that such women are inferior, but that may also be inspired by looking down on the chavs and not wanting anything to do with them because in general every one doesn't like them. But the casual racism is definitely an issue regardless, although am not sure to what extent that is the case at the moment although I'd like to think things are a bit better in my city anyway. Quiet a few of my mates are married to white women from the inner city neighbourhood as well.
    I think that is kind of different shaz, I know when the first generation came over, quite a few thought they would get their leg over easy as their view of western women is that they are well up for it, probably from watching porn movies with jaws bouncing off the floor. It is racist, in the same way that black men are thought of as dancing ninnies or when a white mate at school told me he'd love to _____ a chinki. But generally if you think women are slags or easy, then by logic it's not hard to pull one and have sex. Why would you need to drug them or target underage girls if that was your view? There's any amount of mixed race kids knocking around because the first generation wanted to sow their oats before settling down, in some cases they married those women as well. If they didn't feel the need to drug women then why would this generation need to?

    To me it seems more likely that these guys are desperate, ugly losers who target care home girls because they wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting them otherwise. That makes them paedophiles and I don't think there's anything the Pakistani community does which would encourage or condone that behaviour.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I think that is kind of different shaz, I know when the first generation came over, quite a few thought they would get their leg over easy as their view of western women is that they are well up for it, probably from watching porn movies with jaws bouncing off the floor. It is racist, in the same way that black men are thought of as dancing ninnies or when a white mate at school told me he'd love to _____ a chinki. But generally if you think women are slags or easy, then by logic it's not hard to pull one and have sex. Why would you need to drug them or target underage girls if that was your view? There's any amount of mixed race kids knocking around because the first generation wanted to sow their oats before settling down, in some cases they married those women as well. If they didn't feel the need to drug women then why would this generation need to?

    To me it seems more likely that these guys are desperate, ugly losers who target care home girls because they wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting them otherwise. That makes them paedophiles and I don't think there's anything the Pakistani community does which would encourage or condone that behaviour.
    Yeah I see where you're coming from, a lot of it is true because you see a lot of mixed couples these days and they don't resort to such behaviour in order to satisfy their vile desires. The current generation, my one in that case have not been linked to these grooming cases, it's mostly older men which are desperate/ugly who are also not capable of charming a women as you say; but also look at the conservative time period they grew up in which may have magnified the beast in them to an extent at the very least? With the current gen and time period we're a lot more open , tolerant and accepting of the modern world in general


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    This is a complex issue which sadly gets hijacked by various commentators for political and ideological purposes whenever these stories appear. People will cherrypick the numbers when in reality, statistics about sexual abuse and the ethnicity of perpetrators are patchy, drawn from limited number of areas and hard to draw national conclusions from.

    1) Some believe race or religion solely predisposes these men to sexual abuse but ignore socio-economics and local demographics. One of the reasons why there's an over-representation of Asian men in these grooming cases is because of how they dominate the "night-time economy", i.e. taxi driving, drug dealing and takeaways. Of course this isn't the case nationally, but in some parts of the North of England it is the case.

    2) Sexual abuse also takes different forms. Child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas says attacks in isolation and through online tend to be perpetrated by white men. However, the transferring of girls among young men for sex involves Pakistani men.

    3) There are however some cultural factors at play too and shouldn't be swept under the carpet or dismissed as racist. These Asian groomers are often guilty of racism themselves - the vast majority of their victims are white ! There are disparities between the age of consent in the UK and some of these countries these men originate from. They come from patriarchal societies where women are treated as second-class citizens who men have a birthrate to dominate than treat as equals in the household.

    When you have a religious culture that lends itself to a high degree of sexual repression and makes the topic of sex taboo, then its not surprising that it manifests itself in dangerous and sickening ways in testosterone-charged men.

    Finally, the justice system repeatedly lets down victims of every background. When conviction rates are so low and these vulnerable girls, often from deprived and unstable backgrounds, are targeted by men (be it Asian gangs or white celebrities) who know they'll be too intimidated to report them then a culture of impunity develops. Savile was never brought to book. I hope we learn the right lessons from this and prevent a serious issue from devolving into the usual ideological mudslinging.
    Very well put Markhor.
    Ultimately these perpetrators are Criminals who can only succeed in their criminality by grooming young vulnerable White Girls.
    Though their actions are technically paedophilia, I doubt whether any of them are actually hard core child molesters.


    Pakistan Cricket: Exciting, Entertaining, Unpredictable, Dangerous and Unique.

  8. #88
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    @mani1 i was on about dealing primarily in that post. N plenty of dealers in heaton n frizinghall. Just walk up scotchman road on a night. Saray charsi uthay parked honay.

    as far as sick grooming **** keighley disproportionate amount of just creeps n perverts.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Yeah I see where you're coming from, a lot of it is true because you see a lot of mixed couples these days and they don't resort to such behaviour in order to satisfy their vile desires. The current generation, my one in that case have not been linked to these grooming cases, it's mostly older men which are desperate/ugly who are also not capable of charming a women as you say; but also look at the conservative time period they grew up in which may have magnified the beast in them to an extent at the very least? With the current gen and time period we're a lot more open , tolerant and accepting of the modern world in general
    My dad was among the first generation, there were plenty in his circle who had white girlfriends and wives, (including plenty of Sikhs too) but they didn't need to drug girls to do it, you would have thought they would be more conservative. I don't really think there's anything conservative about these people who are grooming, they are basically animals fulfilling their lusts in a depraved and quite disgusting manner. If anything the social media age seems to have made it more accessible to perverts worldwide.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  10. #90
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    @Cpt.Rishwat obviously it depends where you have been brought up and the type of people who u are surrounded by.

    Personally ive seen this mentality from a lot of people growing up but obviously majority never become sickos n education going to uni n working n mixing with others from different backgrounds also makes a lot of people grow out of these close minded views.

    no surprise that these guys are predominantly involved in the night trade.

    but yeah a lot of them are ugly losers who cant get girls normally combined with their mentality that reduces these girls to mere sex toys and play things and not actual humans they resort to this type of behaviour.

    i think the mothers n sister thing is specific to Rotherham where the level of abuse in such a small town n subsequent investigations have shown cover ups and turning of blind eyes from members of the law enforcement politicians and people from within the community the perpetrators were from just like with the Saville case and the celebrity n westminister paedophiles.

    generally these sickos will live a double life and hide their depraved acts from the family.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Report it to the police. Look at Saville, he got away with it for decades because people in the white community were scared to speak up.
    If I see any girl being forced into doing something against her wishes, I will personally interven, no matter how many or who is doing the forcing.

    If I see girls with men , it's not my business as it could be consensual. You do realise there are many people in this country from all types of backgrounds who drink, do drugs and get intimate with each other all consensual and no complaints made after?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    If I see any girl being forced into doing something against her wishes, I will personally interven, no matter how many or who is doing the forcing.

    If I see girls with men , it's not my business as it could be consensual. You do realise there are many people in this country from all types of backgrounds who drink, do drugs and get intimate with each other all consensual and no complaints made after?
    Not if the girls are twelve, it isn't.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Not if the girls are twelve, it isn't.
    So if I see obviously looking underage girls with Asian men I should report to the police?

    What if I see a 12 year old with a White man? Report him too? They could be related.

    My point is its not easy to know by simply looking at people if a serious crime of this nature is taking place. Unless you have evidence something disgusting and illegal such as this is going on, there is not much anyone or any community can do.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    @Yossarian in the north of england and west yorkshire in particular. Brits of Pakistani origin do dominate the drug trade. Just like in London its mostly Afro Caribbean Brits who dominate the drug trade. And romanian and bulgarian gangs that dominate human trafficking and the illegal sex trade in the U.K.

    A lot of the drug dealing comes from glorification of gang culture in the inner city deprived areas of places like London Birmingham Bradford amongst youth especially in caribbean and pakistani communities.

    Class education and economic status plays a big part too ofc. The Brit Pakistanis and Afro Caribbeans who live in leafy villages and middle classsuburbs having tea and scones with kathy and jon and have well paid professional jobs rarely get into these type of nefarious activities. And are living in a different world to those who are slugging it out in the inner city.
    I was responding to the (ignorant) comment that "Takeaways,Taxis & Drugs all of which are predominantly run by Muslims", and thereby completely ignoring, for example, the Afro Caribbeans, Romanian and Bulgarian gangs you mention.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  15. #95
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    @Yossarian

    Why should we care about any other community? As I often say two wrongs never make a right. Pakistanis are often in the news for the wrong reasons more then any other minority community, no point in denying it. The only way such a problem can be nipped in the bud is first admitting that one exists. Don't try to get other communities involved in your attempts to cover up the crimes admitting by our people.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    @Yossarian

    Why should we care about any other community? As I often say two wrongs never make a right. Pakistanis are often in the news for the wrong reasons more then any other minority community, no point in denying it. The only way such a problem can be nipped in the bud is first admitting that one exists. Don't try to get other communities involved in your attempts to cover up the crimes admitting by our people.
    In that case, crimes committed by your people maybe but not mine. Talk about society as a whole, and that means all communities, but if you wish to focus upon just one group/community, then include yourself in that group/community by all means, but don't drag others into it. Why should I associate myself with these criminals? Why is it my problem just because our forefathers may have been born in the same part of the world? I pay my taxes which the government uses to fund a police force and judiciary, and it's their job to arrest and punish the guilty.

    An oh, as far as eradicating such activities from society as a whole, I suggest you read this earlier post of mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Fact of the matter is that prostitution, murder, rape, paedophilia, child abuse, and such crimes have gone on since time immemorial, and will continue to go on regardless of ethnicity, society, wealth. Whether the laws are strict or lax, whether the penalties are severe or virtually non-existant. It even transcends social status, social classes, from priests, police, politicians, doctors and lawyers, to the uneducated and those on the bottom rungs of society.

    The only thing that changes is which group to blame at any given time, which bandwagon the politicians and media will jump upon.

    Posters on here are jumping on the same bandwagon, because this happens to be in the news at the moment, and making it sound as if child abuse, rape, and such crimes don't go on in other communities.

    You think blaming the whole community will make the problem go away? Because if that could be so, then simply blame whatever community any rapist, paedophile, murderer, child abuser ... comes from, and hey presto! the problem will go away!

    Catch the perpetrators, punish them, give them severe sentences and make them suffer. Society should do what little bit it can. But to think such problems will be eradicated completely, from any society in the world, is living in cuckoo land. Fact is there are no answers, especially simple ones.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    So if I see obviously looking underage girls with Asian men I should report to the police?

    What if I see a 12 year old with a White man? Report him too? They could be related.

    My point is its not easy to know by simply looking at people if a serious crime of this nature is taking place. Unless you have evidence something disgusting and illegal such as this is going on, there is not much anyone or any community can do.
    I expect that the decent people around Saville in hospitals and the BBC said much the same. They saw something that looked wrong but did not report it.

    I was on a train with my grand-daughter. She was three at the time. She threw a temper tantrum and screamed the carriage down. The train guard intervened and asked many questions about my relationship to the child. This was most uncomfortable to me, but I accepted that the train guard had done his civic duty in an attempt to safeguard a distressed child.

    My point is that if it looks wrong, it could be wrong and we should tell the Police or child protection services.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    So if I see obviously looking underage girls with Asian men I should report to the police?

    What if I see a 12 year old with a White man? Report him too? They could be related.

    My point is its not easy to know by simply looking at people if a serious crime of this nature is taking place. Unless you have evidence something disgusting and illegal such as this is going on, there is not much anyone or any community can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I expect that the decent people around Saville in hospitals and the BBC said much the same. They saw something that looked wrong but did not report it.

    I was on a train with my grand-daughter. She was three at the time. She threw a temper tantrum and screamed the carriage down. The train guard intervened and asked many questions about my relationship to the child. This was most uncomfortable to me, but I accepted that the train guard had done his civic duty in an attempt to safeguard a distressed child.

    My point is that if it looks wrong, it could be wrong and we should tell the Police or child protection services.
    You both have a point. However, think of a Black or Asian man married to a white Caucasian woman and having a young child who has inherited the skin colour, hair and facial features from the mother's side. Imagine if he starts being stopped on a frequent basis every time he goes out with his child without his wife also being with him, because "There's a Black/Asian man with a young white girl getting into the car together", especially if the child is having a sulk/tantrum like children often do with their parents when they can't get their own way.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  19. #99
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    @Yossarian

    I am afraid the world will look at Pakistanis as "our people" if you happen to be one. Your logic of saying "it wasn't me" even though you are Pakistani won't wash with the media or most of the general public. They generalise when it comes to Muslim's and any community within it. It wasn't me either but when they use the word "Pakistani" makes kit clear what they are thinking. I did read your earlier mail where you are on about Catholics and what not. It is not me but the British public and press you need to tell this to. Pakistanis are often in the news for the wrong reasons, I don't know why you are in denial.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Child sex grooming referrals set to reach record high in Bradford


    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u..._high/?ref=mac

    @Markhor


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post

    Child sex grooming referrals set to reach record high in Bradford


    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u..._high/?ref=mac

    @Markhor
    I have been reading stuff like this in the local rag for years and am yet to see a single incident of a Bradford based grooming gang only Keighley.

    The last major incident in Bradford was


    Middle-class teenager was groomed and abused by 20 men he met online as police said they were 'powerless' to prevent him using the internet

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4pYxsAg00
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 12th August 2017 at 18:33.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    @Yossarian

    I am afraid the world will look at Pakistanis as "our people" if you happen to be one. Your logic of saying "it wasn't me" even though you are Pakistani won't wash with the media or most of the general public. They generalise when it comes to Muslim's and any community within it. It wasn't me either but when they use the word "Pakistani" makes kit clear what they are thinking. I did read your earlier mail where you are on about Catholics and what not. It is not me but the British public and press you need to tell this to. Pakistanis are often in the news for the wrong reasons, I don't know why you are in denial.
    I for one don't classify myself as being a 'British Pakistani', instead if the need arises I use the phrase 'British citizen of Pakistani origin'. In fact the vast majority of those classified as being 'British Pakistani' have very little history with Pakistan for a start.

    Let me explain why:

    The majority of these so called 'British Pakistanis' are descendents of those who first came to the UK in the late 50's and 60's as adults looking for work to save and send money back to their families. Meaning they would have been born prior to the creation of Pakistan, and would only have lived in a country called 'Pakistan' for a matter of only 10 to 20 years out of their whole lives (from 1947 when Pakistan came into existence to when they arrived in the UK in the late 50's to late 60's).

    If you are going to call those born in the UK as being 'British Pakistanis' purely on the basis that their parents or grandparents were born in a country called Pakistan, then by the same token those born before 1947, or whose parents or grandparents were born before 1947, should actually be referred to as 'British Indians'.

    Now with that cleared up, let me address your point in a different way:
    Whilst the politicians and media might be quite happy to label even 3rd or 4th generation UK born citizens as being 'British Pakistanis', I don't see why those labelled as such have to go along with it and thus set themselves apart from anyone else. Do you see 3rd or 4th generation UK born referring to themselves as 'British Italians' or 'British Poles' or 'British Spaniards' if their grandparents or great grandparents were born in those countries?

    Hence, regardless of what labels the politicians and media wish to stick on, I for one regard myself as simply being a UK citizen, or at worse, a UK citizen of Pakistani origin. I refuse to see myself as being different to mainstream society, as being part of some 'community' separate from the rest of British society. And in that regard I refuse to take ownership of some vermin by accepting that somehow they and myself are part of some fictitious 'community'. However, if you wish to take ownership for yourself, then that is your prerogative.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I for one don't classify myself as being a 'British Pakistani', instead if the need arises I use the phrase 'British citizen of Pakistani origin'. In fact the vast majority of those classified as being 'British Pakistani' have very little history with Pakistan for a start.

    Let me explain why:

    The majority of these so called 'British Pakistanis' are descendents of those who first came to the UK in the late 50's and 60's as adults looking for work to save and send money back to their families. Meaning they would have been born prior to the creation of Pakistan, and would only have lived in a country called 'Pakistan' for a matter of only 10 to 20 years out of their whole lives (from 1947 when Pakistan came into existence to when they arrived in the UK in the late 50's to late 60's).

    If you are going to call those born in the UK as being 'British Pakistanis' purely on the basis that their parents or grandparents were born in a country called Pakistan, then by the same token those born before 1947, or whose parents or grandparents were born before 1947, should actually be referred to as 'British Indians'.

    Now with that cleared up, let me address your point in a different way:
    Whilst the politicians and media might be quite happy to label even 3rd or 4th generation UK born citizens as being 'British Pakistanis', I don't see why those labelled as such have to go along with it and thus set themselves apart from anyone else. Do you see 3rd or 4th generation UK born referring to themselves as 'British Italians' or 'British Poles' or 'British Spaniards' if their grandparents or great grandparents were born in those countries?

    Hence, regardless of what labels the politicians and media wish to stick on, I for one regard myself as simply being a UK citizen, or at worse, a UK citizen of Pakistani origin. I refuse to see myself as being different to mainstream society, as being part of some 'community' separate from the rest of British society. And in that regard I refuse to take ownership of some vermin by accepting that somehow they and myself are part of some fictitious 'community'. However, if you wish to take ownership for yourself, then that is your prerogative.
    Stop writing such massive and long essays. I am standing by what I have been saying that Pakistanis in the west do have a problem. It is also due to being poorly educated as well. No one is mentioning you specifically or asking you to take responsibility. I am sure at least one Pakistani would agree with me making it "our" problem.
    Last edited by PakLFC; 13th August 2017 at 01:58.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Stop writing such massive and long essays. I am standing by what I have been saying that Pakistanis in the west do have a problem. It is also due to being poorly educated as well. No one is mentioning you specifically or asking you to take responsibility. I am sure at least one Pakistani would agree with me making it "our" problem.
    Fair enough, if you're saying it's 'our' problem then fine, it's 'your' problem. Meaning you're taking ownership of it. As I said that's your prerogative.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Fair enough, if you're saying it's 'our' problem then fine, it's 'your' problem. Meaning you're taking ownership of it. As I said that's your prerogative.
    It is the problem of every Pakistani who feels this is "our problem".


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Fair enough, if you're saying it's 'our' problem then fine, it's 'your' problem. Meaning you're taking ownership of it. As I said that's your prerogative.
    Please guys, take the advice of Yossarian and myself and report any suspicious behaviour. Forget about friends or families, you are living in Britain, you have a duty to your fellow countrymen to stand side by side for justice. Wake up! Stop hiding this abhorrent behaviour and letting down decent people like Robert, James, Yossarian and me.
    Last edited by UN talkz; 14th August 2017 at 14:52.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    This is a complex issue which sadly gets hijacked by various commentators for political and ideological purposes whenever these stories appear. People will cherrypick the numbers when in reality, statistics about sexual abuse and the ethnicity of perpetrators are patchy, drawn from limited number of areas and hard to draw national conclusions from.

    1) Some believe race or religion solely predisposes these men to sexual abuse but ignore socio-economics and local demographics. One of the reasons why there's an over-representation of Asian men in these grooming cases is because of how they dominate the "night-time economy", i.e. taxi driving, drug dealing and takeaways. Of course this isn't the case nationally, but in some parts of the North of England it is the case.

    2) Sexual abuse also takes different forms. Child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas says attacks in isolation and through online tend to be perpetrated by white men. However, the transferring of girls among young men for sex involves Pakistani men.

    3) There are however some cultural factors at play too and shouldn't be swept under the carpet or dismissed as racist. These Asian groomers are often guilty of racism themselves - the vast majority of their victims are white ! There are disparities between the age of consent in the UK and some of these countries these men originate from. They come from patriarchal societies where women are treated as second-class citizens who men have a birthrate to dominate than treat as equals in the household.

    When you have a religious culture that lends itself to a high degree of sexual repression and makes the topic of sex taboo, then its not surprising that it manifests itself in dangerous and sickening ways in testosterone-charged men.

    Finally, the justice system repeatedly lets down victims of every background. When conviction rates are so low and these vulnerable girls, often from deprived and unstable backgrounds, are targeted by men (be it Asian gangs or white celebrities) who know they'll be too intimidated to report them then a culture of impunity develops. Savile was never brought to book. I hope we learn the right lessons from this and prevent a serious issue from devolving into the usual ideological mudslinging.
    Great insight.

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    British Pakistani men ARE raping and exploiting white girls… and it’s time we faced up to it

    There. I said it. Does that make me a racist? Or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying problem for what it is?
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/421864...g-white-girls/

    After the article became public, Sarah Champion the Labour MP for Rotherham and Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities has quit the party's front bench after criticism!

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    She only resigned because she lied by saying that the Sun newspaper had distorted her words.

    Only when an E-mail was leaked that stated she was delighted with the article was she caught red handed with her lie so she had no choice but resign otherwise she was getting fired.

    She actually got it totally wrong when pointing to Pakistanis as in this Newcastle case these perverts were from across the subcontinent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90MPH View Post
    She only resigned because she lied by saying that the Sun newspaper had distorted her words.

    Only when an E-mail was leaked that stated she was delighted with the article was she caught red handed with her lie so she had no choice but resign otherwise she was getting fired.

    She actually got it totally wrong when pointing to Pakistanis as in this Newcastle case these perverts were from across the subcontinent.
    Predominantly Bengali. Muslims in the main ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    Predominantly Bengali. Muslims in the main ..
    Yeah they are animals wherever they are from.

    Root cause needs to be tackled and discussions need to be taken place but constant pointing at 1 community like some of these opportunists like to do is not going to solve the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90MPH View Post
    Yeah they are animals wherever they are from.

    Root cause needs to be tackled and discussions need to be taken place but constant pointing at 1 community like some of these opportunists like to do is not going to solve the problem.
    It was the Sun, the problem's been solved as far as they are concerned. They got a juicy headline with an MP condemning a hated racial group for raping white girls. It must have been like winning the lottery for them.


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  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    It was the Sun, the problem's been solved as far as they are concerned. They got a juicy headline with an MP condemning a hated racial group for raping white girls. It must have been like winning the lottery for them.
    And that too from a Labour MP. So a double win.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    My dad was among the first generation, there were plenty in his circle who had white girlfriends and wives, (including plenty of Sikhs too) but they didn't need to drug girls to do it, you would have thought they would be more conservative. I don't really think there's anything conservative about these people who are grooming, they are basically animals fulfilling their lusts in a depraved and quite disgusting manner. If anything the social media age seems to have made it more accessible to perverts worldwide.
    I respect your view but believe that if you lived in the inner city you'd see what I mean, am not someone who is overly against your view or overly in favour of the posing argument but there is a foundation which inspired the animalistic tendencies, now there is a fair amount of such folk in Bradford and probably in the midlands to and it doesn't give me any pleasure to say that. Having said that there are good and bad examples, in terms of what has happened recently and in the past it's one of the extremes with regards to the bad examples.

    It wouldn't be right to pain all with the same brush, I accept that and also have family who started out in the night time economy and others who are highly successful business men when they arrived here with literally nothing; but at the same time, certain folk have a demented view of the world and it's not limited to a tiny sample , such views rarely inspire vile deeds but in other cases like this one they behave as gateway to unspeakable evils. So then it's fair to question the foundation of their thinking patterns, it could be a combination of what has already been suggested in this thread but hopefully moving forward we won't have to debate over these things.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I respect your view but believe that if you lived in the inner city you'd see what I mean, am not someone who is overly against your view or overly in favour of the posing argument but there is a foundation which inspired the animalistic tendencies, now there is a fair amount of such folk in Bradford and probably in the midlands to and it doesn't give me any pleasure to say that. Having said that there are good and bad examples, in terms of what has happened recently and in the past it's one of the extremes with regards to the bad examples.

    It wouldn't be right to pain all with the same brush, I accept that and also have family who started out in the night time economy and others who are highly successful business men when they arrived here with literally nothing; but at the same time, certain folk have a demented view of the world and it's not limited to a tiny sample , such views rarely inspire vile deeds but in other cases like this one they behave as gateway to unspeakable evils. So then it's fair to question the foundation of their thinking patterns, it could be a combination of what has already been suggested in this thread but hopefully moving forward we won't have to debate over these things.
    You seem to have some direct experience of folk with this demented view of the world, so perhaps if it's more prevalent in Bradford and the midlands, more effort needs to be concentrated there to confront those with such destructive mindsets. Do you know people who are influential in your community who should perhaps be doing more in this regard?


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  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    You seem to have some direct experience of folk with this demented view of the world, so perhaps if it's more prevalent in Bradford and the midlands, more effort needs to be concentrated there to confront those with such destructive mindsets. Do you know people who are influential in your community who should perhaps be doing more in this regard?
    There is an influential sheikh who also happens to be related to Moeen Ali near Alum Rock who does some really good work in a trouble some region and in my area the local imam regularly speaks out against those who seem to think they can get away with being naughty by putting money in the bucket during collection out of guilt for their sins.

    And while efforts are being made to help the youth and it's the right thing to do maybe said influential folk should focus on the 1st generation immigrants as well and touch on topics which people are not so open to talking about, perhaps use religion as a tool to strike fear in their hearts because it always incites a reaction. Also, those whom gain entry to the UK must also be open to enrolling on a equality and diversity course; which doesn't affect their stay but make it compulsory anyway so they are made to understand that white women are not meat


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  37. #117
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    Anyhow the midlands you do get various cases although it seems to be more prevalent in Bradford but can't say much on what's being done there and area's for improvement, a focused effort there would definitely be a good thing


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Anyhow the midlands you do get various cases although it seems to be more prevalent in Bradford but can't say much on what's being done there and area's for improvement, a focused effort there would definitely be a good thing
    There's not been a single case in Bradford!!!. Bradfordians have been involved but this is mainly a Rotherham and Lancashire issue!!. Likewise, Bradford had had none convicted for actual terrorism!.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    There's not been a single case in Bradford!!!. Bradfordians have been involved but this is mainly a Rotherham and Lancashire issue!!. Likewise, Bradford had had none convicted for actual terrorism!.
    the only ones that were involved were 1 from the Huddersfield gang and one from Ayelsbury gang both looked like the typical asylum seeker/student types.

    Locally it is a Keighley, Leeds, and Huddersfield issue.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    There is an influential sheikh who also happens to be related to Moeen Ali near Alum Rock who does some really good work in a trouble some region and in my area the local imam regularly speaks out against those who seem to think they can get away with being naughty by putting money in the bucket during collection out of guilt for their sins.

    And while efforts are being made to help the youth and it's the right thing to do maybe said influential folk should focus on the 1st generation immigrants as well and touch on topics which people are not so open to talking about, perhaps use religion as a tool to strike fear in their hearts because it always incites a reaction. Also, those whom gain entry to the UK must also be open to enrolling on a equality and diversity course; which doesn't affect their stay but make it compulsory anyway so they are made to understand that white women are not meat
    Do you know if any of the perpetrators in the Midlands attend these talks? I am wondering if there is some confusion in the minds of people who attend the mosques up and down the country that they might have religious sanction for plying underage white girls with alcohol and drugs in order to have sex with them? It isn't something I had considered before, but if people who attend a mosque are unclear on it then the question needs to be asked.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    There's not been a single case in Bradford!!!. Bradfordians have been involved but this is mainly a Rotherham and Lancashire issue!!. Likewise, Bradford had had none convicted for actual terrorism!.
    Tanveer Ahmed

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    Jeremy Corbyn: Wrong to blame 'entire community' for abuse

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40959387


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  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad10 View Post
    Jeremy Corbyn: Wrong to blame 'entire community' for abuse

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40959387
    That's just common sense but it's also naive to ignore the fact that we do have a problem


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    That's just common sense but it's also naive to ignore the fact that we do have a problem
    WE don't have a problem. Britain had a problem, and it is being fixed by police doing their jobs and prosecuting criminals and putting them in jail. They weren't doing this before for reasons best known to themselves, but they are now and that will do the job. Not to mention the trades of these scumbags will suffer and all over the country that will be felt by perfectly innocent taxi drivers and takeaway businesses. I think that will have more effect than any vague talk in a mosque where the perps probably won't even be present.


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  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    WE don't have a problem. Britain had a problem, and it is being fixed by police doing their jobs and prosecuting criminals and putting them in jail. They weren't doing this before for reasons best known to themselves, but they are now and that will do the job. Not to mention the trades of these scumbags will suffer and all over the country that will be felt by perfectly innocent taxi drivers and takeaway businesses. I think that will have more effect than any vague talk in a mosque where the perps probably won't even be present.
    Policing is definitely pivotal but we do have a problem and making an effort won't hurt, those who live beyond the inner city with the likes of Kathy and John are generally clue less with regards to inner city woes; they haven't seen how messed up things are and in their world everything is hunky dory because life has been very kind to them, it's not nice that the British Pakistani's are in the news for these such reasons and I understand that they ought to get frustrated by this more then anything but we do have problems
    Last edited by shaz619; 18th August 2017 at 11:11.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  46. #126
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    Our people are not perfect and most of you who are doing well would disown your folk from the deprived regions of England if you lived there for a week or two, anyhow just because we're not perfect on the whole doesn't mean we're defined by all the bad either because there's so much good to, but this is just a fact. If people have a problem with that they can classify themselves beyond their ethnic roots.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Policing is definitely pivotal but we do have a problem and making an effort won't hurt, those who live beyond the inner city with the likes of Kathy and John are generally clue less with regards to inner city woes; they haven't seen how messed up things are and in their world everything is hunky dory because life has been very kind to them, it's not nice that the British Pakistani's are in the news for these such reasons and I understand that they ought to get frustrated by this more then anything but we do have problems
    By all means if you can make a difference do so, but the problem won't be solved by saying we have a problem. We need specifics, if communities are going to be held accountable, then we need to identify who represents the community and how they will get their message across to put an end to it. As we have seen though, everyone thinks it's someone else's problem, when you get too specific then posts get removed because people take offence. Strange that.


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  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    By all means if you can make a difference do so, but the problem won't be solved by saying we have a problem. We need specifics, if communities are going to be held accountable, then we need to identify who represents the community and how they will get their message across to put an end to it. As we have seen though, everyone thinks it's someone else's problem, when you get too specific then posts get removed because people take offence. Strange that.
    Others don't need to classify as being a part of that community given that in general these issues are foreign to them; so don't mean for anyone to take it personally when I use the word "we" it doesn't mean am referring to them


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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