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  1. #1
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    'Whose orders is Rangers following?' I cannot be a puppet interior minister : Ahsan Iqbal

    Interior Minister Ahsan Iqbal on Monday lashed out at the Rangers paramilitary force for barring PML-N leaders, lawyers and supporters of ousted prime minister Nawaz Sharif from entering the accountability court in Islamabad where the former prime minister has appeared for a hearing into graft cases against him.

    Speaking to reporters before he departed from the court in protest, Iqbal said courts are "open spaces" which supporters and lawyers of the defendant could enter.

    The minister said it was only during martial law governments that closed trials were conducted, adding that trials held in democracies are "transparent".

    He said the Islamabad chief commissioner had decided on the names of media personnel and PML-N leaders and supporters who would be allowed to enter the court on Monday. However, he said, the commissioner informed him this morning that "Rangers have suddenly appeared and taken over this place".

    He said the Rangers are deployed under the command of the chief commissioner in Islamabad.

    Iqbal said the chief commissioner informed him that when he [the commissioner] told Rangers officials that a plan prepared in advance would be followed regarding entry to the court, the Rangers officials in command refused to accept the plan and said they would follow the orders they have been given and "would not allow anyone but Nawaz Sharif to enter [the court]".

    He said he was forced to take a notice of the situation because "Rangers is a force which is subordinate to the Ministry of Interior and when they are deployed, they are supposed to work under the command of the civil administration".

    Iqbal said if Rangers had violated orders of the civil administration, a "high-level inquiry" would take place of the matter and it would be determined "who challenged the writ of the government".

    The minister said the local commander of Rangers "vanished" for 15 minutes when he was called to discuss the situation.

    He also threatened to resign if the rule didn't become clear about what the writ of the state and the civil administration is.

    "I cannot be a puppet interior minister," he said.

    He further questioned whose orders the paramilitary force was following when the ministry he heads did not issue any orders that the force was enforcing.

    "There will be one law here and one government... two states cannot function within one state."

    The minister said he has also brought the issue to the notice of Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi. He has directed the district administration to submit a report into the incident.

    Although a Rangers official came out of the court to convince PML-N leader Daniyal Aziz to attend the hearing, the minister refused to enter the court after several of his party leaders had already left.



    Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1361230/wh...entry-to-court


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  2. #2
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    Is he blind or what? They were just following the court order so Mr Visionary go and resign instead of just threatening. I still remember his statement from past that he will resign if his govt allow Musharraf to leave the country



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    Democracy brigade furious on twitter and some are protesting as if fauj ha staken over lol

    These guys make me cringe so much seriously, PMLN goons last time created so much trouble inside court that rangers had been called in by the judge in anticipation that darbaris will go down to any level to make Sharif happy.

    But this liberal brigade turned this into civil-military standoff as if Army is taking over Pakistan with the help of Supreme court

  4. #4
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    I hope SC calls coas and ask about missing persons

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Democracy brigade furious on twitter and some are protesting as if fauj ha staken over lol

    These guys make me cringe so much seriously, PMLN goons last time created so much trouble inside court that rangers had been called in by the judge in anticipation that darbaris will go down to any level to make Sharif happy.

    But this liberal brigade turned this into civil-military standoff as if Army is taking over Pakistan with the help of Supreme court
    The hilarious thing was that Japani pmln leader chanting rangers namanzoor he was the one who attacked sheikh rasheed a few months ago.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Democracy brigade furious on twitter and some are protesting as if fauj ha staken over lol

    These guys make me cringe so much seriously, PMLN goons last time created so much trouble inside court that rangers had been called in by the judge in anticipation that darbaris will go down to any level to make Sharif happy.

    But this liberal brigade turned this into civil-military standoff as if Army is taking over Pakistan with the help of Supreme court
    The feeling is mutual. It's ironic how it's totally OK to hate PML-N or PPP because they're corrupt and have done untold damage to the nation but woe betide anyone who dares hold the army, an institution that has done more damage than PML or PPP ever could, because.... because? Because why? This veneer of patriotism is only skin deep, something that becomes evident when people support institutions that have played the dominant role in bringing Pakistan where it is just because said institution can and does run amok over the party they hate (and also the constitution of Pakistan but never mind that, must get those Nooras).


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    The feeling is mutual. It's ironic how it's totally OK to hate PML-N or PPP because they're corrupt and have done untold damage to the nation but woe betide anyone who dares hold the army, an institution that has done more damage than PML or PPP ever could, because.... because? Because why? This veneer of patriotism is only skin deep, something that becomes evident when people support institutions that have played the dominant role in bringing Pakistan where it is just because said institution can and does run amok over the party they hate (and also the constitution of Pakistan but never mind that, must get those Nooras).
    Who has stolen more and taken the money abroad? Is it the army or the PML/PPP? Who has borrowed more?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Who has stolen more and taken the money abroad? Is it the army or the PML/PPP? Who has borrowed more?
    In the absence of concrete figures regarding who has stolen how much, I'd venture an educated guess and say it's the army. For starters, the nearly 20% of Pakistan's agricultural land that they've taken over since the 60s alone is worth more than what every politician in our history put together has stolen. As for who has borrowed more, most likely the civilians.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  9. #9
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    Name:  22154183_1836051589983501_294469675305629140_n.jpg
Views: 427
Size:  63.4 KB


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    .
    SSP Islamabad letter to DC Islamabad for Rangers




    And here is what the NAB judge asked afetr last hearing when noonies did the huler baazi inside the court room.



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    In the absence of concrete figures regarding who has stolen how much, I'd venture an educated guess and say it's the army. For starters, the nearly 20% of Pakistan's agricultural land that they've taken over since the 60s alone is worth more than what every politician in our history put together has stolen. As for who has borrowed more, most likely the civilians.
    I agree that army has been involved in corruption but if you contextualize what they have stolen compared to the "democrats", its miniscule. NS has billions abroad and so AZ, what do Zia's, Ayubs, and Mush children have abroad- at best a few million. You cleverly avoided the borrowing question by just saying civilians, what did the civilians do with the money, yes you guessed it, mostly used it as patronage or sent it out of the country? I rather give some land to a soldier for putting his life on the line than some crook who buys votes. My dad was a soldier his army pension in the early 90s would barely have covered a weeks supply until Mush came to power. Do you see any poor PML or PPP politicians? If not why not.

  12. #12
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Name:  22154183_1836051589983501_294469675305629140_n.jpg
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    Blatant lie by Iqbal.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 2nd October 2017 at 17:14.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    I agree that army has been involved in corruption but if you contextualize what they have stolen compared to the "democrats", its miniscule. NS has billions abroad and so AZ, what do Zia's, Ayubs, and Mush children have abroad- at best a few million.
    Not minuscule by any stretch of the imagination. Difference between the two entities is that army's ill gotten gains are spread among hundreds of thousands while those of the Sharif and Zardari clan only go to two families. Army also has many "legit" businesses through which it funnels most of it's corrupt money. There's a reason every major construction project goes to FWO and transportation ones to NLC without a bidding process. Not living in Pakistan and, far more importantly, not having been exposed to the army's inner workings, on top of the fact that the army's illegal activities don't make the front pages of newspaper or get played 24 hours on the TV, I don't really expect you to be aware of the sheer scale of their corruption. The occupied agricultural land alone is worth tens, if not hundreds, of billions considering it's comparable in size to the Netherlands (the entire country).

    You cleverly avoided the borrowing question by just saying civilians, what did the civilians do with the money, yes you guessed it, mostly used it as patronage or sent it out of the country? I rather give some land to a soldier for putting his life on the line than some crook who buys votes. My dad was a soldier his army pension in the early 90s would barely have covered a weeks supply until Mush came to power. Do you see any poor PML or PPP politicians? If not why not.
    Avoided? You asked who borrowed more, I answered, where's the avoidance. My dad was also an army officer and several close relatives still are. I'm aware of the low salaries of the pre Musharraf era but you missed out all the perks you get, not just as a soldier but after retirement. My father took voluntary retirement at a relatively junior rank and yet we got a house and a plot, at a combined value of ~PKR 30-35 million from the military a few years after his retirement. The only difference between the army's corruption and PML or PPP's is that the former can hide it and you can't question them on it unless you have a death wish while the latter are idiots who couldn't pick someone's pocket without being filmed doing so from five different angles.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Blatant lie by Iqbal.
    If that makes you feel better. If your stance was principled, I'd be inclined to sympathize but at this point it's 'anything goes so long as the Nooras suffer', something I can't stand by despite my own reservations about them being in government, as someone from a province that suffers massively every time they're in power.
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 2nd October 2017 at 17:14.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    If that makes you feel better. If your stance was principled, I'd be inclined to sympathize but at this point it's 'anything goes so long as the Nooras suffer', something I can't stand by despite my own reservations about them being in government, as someone from a province that suffers massively every time they're in power.
    Tbh, i am loving the suffering of these low life crooks. The whole raison detre of the PML and PPP is to steal from the poor and i love every moment when these thugs gets their comeuppance. In a democracy laws are not changed to save individuals.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Not minuscule by any stretch of the imagination. Difference between the two entities is that army's ill gotten gains are spread among hundreds of thousands while those of the Sharif and Zardari clan only go to two families. Army also has many "legit" businesses through which it funnels most of it's corrupt money. There's a reason every major construction project goes to FWO and transportation ones to NLC without a bidding process. Not living in Pakistan and, far more importantly, not having been exposed to the army's inner workings, on top of the fact that the army's illegal activities don't make the front pages of newspaper or get played 24 hours on the TV, I don't really expect you to be aware of the sheer scale of their corruption. The occupied agricultural land alone is worth tens, if not hundreds, of billions considering it's comparable in size to the Netherlands (the entire country).



    Avoided? You asked who borrowed more, I answered, where's the avoidance. My dad was also an army officer and several close relatives still are. I'm aware of the low salaries of the pre Musharraf era but you missed out all the perks you get, not just as a soldier but after retirement. My father took voluntary retirement at a relatively junior rank and yet we got a house and a plot, at a combined value of ~PKR 30-35 million from the military a few years after his retirement. The only difference between the army's corruption and PML or PPP's is that the former can hide it and you can't question them on it unless you have a death wish while the latter are idiots who couldn't pick someone's pocket without being filmed doing so from five different angles.
    The army is corrupt and it cannot be justified but compared to the 800bn unaccounted in this Sharif era alone it is miniscule. My dad got no land, a terrible pension and if he hadnt got to the UK, he would have poorer than poor.

  18. #18
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    So interior minister is paid millions to escort criminals to accountability court? But the big bad army should sit back and let criminals run amok with the system? no sir... you may like to see Pakistan destroyed just because of "democracy" but the powers that be are alot more loyal to Pakistan than these filthy politicians will ever be.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  19. #19
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    Well done by Rangers and therefore Pak Army by extension




    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  20. #20
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    well done..hang these crooks..

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    So interior minister is paid millions to escort criminals to accountability court? But the big bad army should sit back and let criminals run amok with the system? no sir... you may like to see Pakistan destroyed just because of "democracy" but the powers that be are alot more loyal to Pakistan than these filthy politicians will ever be.
    Its the state doing prosecution and one of the guys charged with formulating the laws is escorting criminals to court. If the Nooras had a iota of principle they would resign and hold elections tomorrow.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Its the state doing prosecution and one of the guys charged with formulating the laws is escorting criminals to court. If the Nooras had a iota of principle they would resign and hold elections tomorrow.
    Actually they are holding intra party elections tomorrow to make Big Noora the president of PMLN again...


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    In the absence of concrete figures regarding who has stolen how much, I'd venture an educated guess and say it's the army. For starters, the nearly 20% of Pakistan's agricultural land that they've taken over since the 60s alone is worth more than what every politician in our history put together has stolen. As for who has borrowed more, most likely the civilians.

    Wow. Why does the military own agricultural land? That too to the tune of 20% of all agricultural land in pakistan. Is this true? Any reliable source? There is no doubt that the army is corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    Wow. Why does the military own agricultural land? That too to the tune of 20% of all agricultural land in pakistan. Is this true? Any reliable source? There is no doubt that the army is corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely
    Just be happy he stopped himself at 20%. I was worried for a second he would say something like 99.9% agro land is controlled by army.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Just be happy he stopped himself at 20%. I was worried for a second he would say something like 99.9% agro land is controlled by army.
    I seriously doubt army controls that much land. If it does that would be a real corruption. I doubt that..

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    Wow. Why does the military own agricultural land? That too to the tune of 20% of all agricultural land in pakistan. Is this true? Any reliable source? There is no doubt that the army is corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely
    Just a figure plucked from thin air.

  27. #27
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    Agriculture land in Pakistan is around 47% (2014 stats) of total land area. So if Army owns 20% of Pakistan's agricultural land that means they own 9% of Pakistan's total land area? That is nearly 70,000 sq km.

    Tell me another joke you army haters brigade

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    PML N lovers love making up numbers out of no where LOL! As always. Next thing they will say...Kyun Nikala Mujhe? ;)

    Thank you Pakistan Army. Get rid of this corrupt mafia for good.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    The army is corrupt and it cannot be justified but compared to the 800bn unaccounted in this Sharif era alone it is miniscule. My dad got no land, a terrible pension and if he hadnt got to the UK, he would have poorer than poor.
    I'm going to need a source for that figure. Not knowing the specifics, I still find that number implausible to the point of being ridiculous. For reference, Russians have $880 billion parked abroad. India has ~$800 billion parked abroad. $800 billion is roughly 270% of Pakistan's GDP and Pakistan's economy is a fraction the size of Russia or India so pardon me of taking that number with a grain of salt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    Wow. Why does the military own agricultural land? That too to the tune of 20% of all agricultural land in pakistan. Is this true? Any reliable source? There is no doubt that the army is corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely
    I answered this question a few weeks back so I'll just copy-paste that post (the post was in response to a question asking why military governments had done nothing to neuter the agricultural lobby):

    Because the military as an institution and military personnel own a lot of agricultural land and have several other businesses involved in agriculture (AWT, FFC/FFBL etc.). You should read Ayesha Siddiqa's "Military Inc" for an in depth look into the underlying structure of our military's economy. Some excerpts that should at least partially answer your question:

    "This is because after 1947 the most significant amount of land reclaimed for agriculture (through building reservoirs and canals) was in Sindh. The military was given 10 per cent of the approximately 9 million acres of land reclaimed through the construction of the Kotri, Guddu and Ghulam Mohammad dams in Sindh."
    "According to Hassan-Askari Rizvi's study approximately 300,000 acres were given to military officers in Sindh during Ayub's rule."


    "The army's direct involvement in agriculture and its possession of rural land did not become evident until the eruption of a conflict in Okara in Central Punjab in 2001, between landless peasants and the armed services. The Okara farms are part of a military farms group, Okara and Renala, which comprises 16,627 acres of land, consisting of two dairy farms, seven military (oat and hay) farms, and 22 villages."
    Note: Nurpur, of butter and cheese fame, is one of the products of Okara. There were similar protests to the ones in 2001 about 2 or 3 years ago.


    "The most conspicuous case of exploitation of land, however, relates to the transfer of agricultural properties to military personnel. The military, as mentioned above, has acquired about 6.9 million acres of land for further redistribution to individual officers and soldiers."

    "The army has often forced the provincial governments to grant land for agriculture and other purposes. In most cases, the acquisition is justified in the name of national security or the reason is not given at all. For instance, the service demanded 20,000 acres in 2000 along the superhighway in Karachi, an upcoming area for industrial development. The army also asked for 12,000 acres of agricultural land for transfer to militart personnel affected by the establishment of the capital in Islamabad during the 1960s. This particular attitude generates resentment, especially in smaller provinces that see the military as an invading force rather than a national army."


    Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...pEHV2O6UQAs.99
    The book quoted in the above post is by Ayesha Siddiqa, one of the foremost academic authorities on Pakistan's military and particularly it's role in the economy. All of the claims are sourced and referenced in the book which is available to download for free so by all means check it out. The acreage in that post alone adds up to ~8.1 million acres which is ~15.3% of Pakistan's total cultivated area of ~53 million acres. The book is ten years old and the list is by no means exhaustive so +4.7% is my best case scenario for the missing ten years and land grabs not listed there.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    Agriculture land in Pakistan is around 47% (2014 stats) of total land area. So if Army owns 20% of Pakistan's agricultural land that means they own 9% of Pakistan's total land area? That is nearly 70,000 sq km.

    Tell me another joke you army haters brigade
    27%, not 47%.

    "The total geographical area of Pakistan is 79.6 million hectares. About 27 percent of the area is currently under cultivation."
    Source: http://www.pakissan.com/english/agri...akistan1.shtml


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Name:  22154183_1836051589983501_294469675305629140_n.jpg
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    Throughout Panama case, almost every federal minister attended hearings and defended Nawaz Sharif his PERSONAL CORRUPTION case. Ch Nisar was the only one who never personally attended but contributed being driver of Nawaz/Shahbaz Sharif.

    Even Nawaz Sharif's personal paper Jang covered the story that judges had requested security due to Noon league's adventure during last hearing and this was shared on social media but likes of Asma Jahangir totally ignored this and some even lied that judges had never requested this.

    Only blind and biased can't see dramay baazi of Sharifs since JIT was formed:

    Oh my god bachay (Hussain Nawaz 45yr old father of six kids) ko kursi pe bitha diya, adlia ka zulm.
    Oh my god, bachi (Maryam Nawaz whose daughter is married now) ko na mehram JIT k samnay bith diya.
    Hum judges k bachon ko nahi choreingay.
    Panama case fauj ki saazish hai.
    Panama case judges ki sazish hai.
    Panama case CPEC k khilaf international saazish hai.

    And shameful liberals like Asma Jahangir, Imtiaz Alam, Marvi Sirmed are providing COMPLETE SUPPORT because Nawaz abuses fauj even if it's to save his personal corruption and NOTHING to do with democracy.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    I'm going to need a source for that figure. Not knowing the specifics, I still find that number implausible to the point of being ridiculous. For reference, Russians have $880 billion parked abroad. India has ~$800 billion parked abroad. $800 billion is roughly 270% of Pakistan's GDP and Pakistan's economy is a fraction the size of Russia or India so pardon me of taking that number with a grain of salt.




    I answered this question a few weeks back so I'll just copy-paste that post (the post was in response to a question asking why military governments had done nothing to neuter the agricultural lobby):



    The book quoted in the above post is by Ayesha Siddiqa, one of the foremost academic authorities on Pakistan's military and particularly it's role in the economy. All of the claims are sourced and referenced in the book which is available to download for free so by all means check it out. The acreage in that post alone adds up to ~8.1 million acres which is ~15.3% of Pakistan's total cultivated area of ~53 million acres. The book is ten years old and the list is by no means exhaustive so +4.7% is my best case scenario for the missing ten years and land grabs not listed there.
    i was talking about the 800bn rupees that have been unaccounted for by this govt. https://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage....8_2017_001_006
    Last edited by Bewal Express; 2nd October 2017 at 22:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    i was talking about the 800bn rupees that have been unaccounted for by this govt. https://epaper.dawn.com/DetailImage....8_2017_001_006
    OK, that makes more sense. Not going to contest any of those claims since they're more than likely true.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    .

    And shameful liberals like Asma Jahangir, Imtiaz Alam, Marvi Sirmed are providing COMPLETE SUPPORT because Nawaz abuses fauj even if it's to save his personal corruption and NOTHING to do with democracy.
    Maybe because those people are among the few in Pakistan who have the good sense to never support the army getting any political space because all things considered, between the army and *insert corrupt politician here*, the former is by far the greater evil. Good on them for not letting the torrents of personal abuse directed their way on a daily basis not deter them from their principled stance.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Maybe because those people are among the few in Pakistan who have the good sense to never support the army getting any political space because all things considered, between the army and *insert corrupt politician here*, the former is by far the greater evil. Good on them for not letting the torrents of personal abuse directed their way on a daily basis not deter them from their principled stance.
    Yes we heard this principled stand when Altaf Hussain was threatning journalists, politicians or rivals, he would incite violence, abuse people's mothers and sisters. Asma would still stand up for him because with every abuse he would throw in a few harsh words against establishment.

    Nawaz Sharif after being estbalishment puppet, throwing sitting governments now acts anti establishment, Asma aunty is there to support him against even Supreme court judges.

    Establishment knew anbout Nawaz Sharif's corruption for decades but NOTHING was done until an external source (NOTHING TO DO WITH PAKISTAN) exposed him but still Asma aunty would provide full support to Mr Crook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    OK, that makes more sense. Not going to contest any of those claims since they're more than likely true.
    800bn seems to be on the low side when you read the full report from AGP. Much of the trillions unaccounted is pure theft, this is the real face of lootocracy in PK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Yes we heard this principled stand when Altaf Hussain was threatning journalists, politicians or rivals, he would incite violence, abuse people's mothers and sisters. Asma would still stand up for him because with every abuse he would throw in a few harsh words against establishment.

    Nawaz Sharif after being estbalishment puppet, throwing sitting governments now acts anti establishment, Asma aunty is there to support him against even Supreme court judges.

    Establishment knew anbout Nawaz Sharif's corruption for decades but NOTHING was done until an external source (NOTHING TO DO WITH PAKISTAN) exposed him but still Asma aunty would provide full support to Mr Crook.
    The hypocrisy of the sarkari patriots is exposed when they complain about Altaf threatening journalists but have nothing to say about the army kidnapping, torturing and, more often than not, killing journalists and bloggers. It's equally evident when Nawaz is the devil incarnate because he stole from the people but the army, who have stolen at least as much if not more, get a free pass. Altaf is a terrorist because his party has an armed wing but the army propping up Lashkar e Jhangvi (among others), who have killed more Pakistanis than anyone bar TTP, again gets a free pass. Asma has maintained that whatever the crimes of people like Altaf or Nawaz, they're entitled to their day in court and a rigorous defense which is fair. Her stance that the army must be opposed, in a state where people routinely disappear for having such views, often turning up dead years later in some remote part of the country, is commendable to say the least and no hypocritical rants will change that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    The hypocrisy of the sarkari patriots is exposed when they complain about Altaf threatening journalists but have nothing to say about the army kidnapping, torturing and, more often than not, killing journalists and bloggers. It's equally evident when Nawaz is the devil incarnate because he stole from the people but the army, who have stolen at least as much if not more, get a free pass. Altaf is a terrorist because his party has an armed wing but the army propping up Lashkar e Jhangvi (among others), who have killed more Pakistanis than anyone bar TTP, again gets a free pass. Asma has maintained that whatever the crimes of people like Altaf or Nawaz, they're entitled to their day in court and a rigorous defense which is fair. Her stance that the army must be opposed, in a state where people routinely disappear for having such views, often turning up dead years later in some remote part of the country, is commendable to say the least and no hypocritical rants will change that.
    Wasnt Asma the great liberal caught up in corruption scandal recently and was humiliated on twitter by some random journalist. Is it any wonder that the hypocrite will be desperate for her patrons that protect her corruption dont face the court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Wasnt Asma the great liberal caught up in corruption scandal recently and was humiliated on twitter by some random journalist. Is it any wonder that the hypocrite will be desperate for her patrons that protect her corruption dont face the court.
    What corruption scandal? Her husband was accused in 2013 of having some loans written off with zero follow up. The fact that you have to lie about her position on NS etc. facing charges (she wants everyone to get their day in court as opposed to the army and acting passing summary judgement) or NS being her patron (you would at least have some credibility if you'd have said PPP) shows how flimsy the entire foundation of your argument is.

    I don't see how she's a hypocrite considering how consistent she has been in her position and the lack of any contradiction between her position on various issues - if you actually follow her views over the last, say, one year, you'll notice she's no more a fan of NS than you are but rightly prioritizes holding the army accountable for it's crimes - so I don't see they hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is condemning PML or PPP because they, and I quote, "stole from the poor" but standing by the army that does the exact same thing and much more that makes PML and PPP look like saints by comparison. Your views would have a lot more credibility if they were consistent and not selectively applied to those you don't like while ignoring those that you do.


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    Quite sad to see the rhetoric against the armed forces, especially in the current environment. Yes they have done some pretty unsavoury things in the past. I dont think we can doubt that. But what do their critics want? Do the critics want the army to lay down their arms and go home to be replaced with the police? or perhaps the critics can suggest who will do their job? Yes Ayub khan should not have blundered, same with yahya and then zias blunders. And dont get me started on the secular khalifa Musharref. But Nawaz sharif in the last 30 odd years has been in and out of one controversy or another to the detriment of the state.

    We cannot allow him and his family to just change laws that promote criminality. The judges, politicians and the armed forces have to work together to safe guard the nation. The country is beset by enemies who are waiting to destroy it. This may not have been the case when some military leaders have taken over, but it is the case now. And there is enough evidence to support this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Quite sad to see the rhetoric against the armed forces, especially in the current environment. Yes they have done some pretty unsavoury things in the past.
    Still do. Their businesses are gobbling up billions of dollars of CPEC construction and transportation contracts without a bidding process, a farmer's crop was destroyed in Okara three days ago for protesting the army's illegal abduction of a local farmer who recited the Quran at a rally attended by Asma Jehangir. Land grabs are still ongoing so their unsavory things are by no means a thing of the past.

    I dont think we can doubt that. But what do their critics want? Do the critics want the army to lay down their arms and go home to be replaced with the police? or perhaps the critics can suggest who will do their job? Yes Ayub khan should not have blundered, same with yahya and then zias blunders. And dont get me started on the secular khalifa Musharref. But Nawaz sharif in the last 30 odd years has been in and out of one controversy or another to the detriment of the state.
    What we want is for them to do their job that is to defend the nation's borders, not interfere in policy matters above their pay grade, sponsor terrorist organizations with the blood of thousands of Pakistanis on their hands, run businesses that make bank by using the army's power and influence to win contracts worth billions that wouldn't go to them in a fair competitive environment, abduct, torture and murder people who criticize their illegal activities (the most recent round of abductions being earlier this year with many still unaccounted for). None of that involves laying down their arms. If they did their job instead of trying to rule the country, no one would complain. As for Nawaz, he too is one of their creations that got out of their control. In terms of who has done more harm to the country, all things considered, there's no comparison between them and the likes of Nawaz Sharif.

    We cannot allow him and his family to just change laws that promote criminality. The judges, politicians and the armed forces have to work together to safe guard the nation. The country is beset by enemies who are waiting to destroy it. This may not have been the case when some military leaders have taken over, but it is the case now. And there is enough evidence to support this.
    True, but then why give the military cart blanche to do the same things NS does, only on a much bigger scale. If there really are enemies intent on destroying us, shouldn't the military be defending us instead of Lashkar e Jhangvi?


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    *Redacted*

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    Shame on Rangers for violating the constitution. People are celebrating this but civil supremacy is a must. You can not have a state within state.


    btw I don't support PML N or hate PA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Still do. Their businesses are gobbling up billions of dollars of CPEC construction and transportation contracts without a bidding process, a farmer's crop was destroyed in Okara three days ago for protesting the army's illegal abduction of a local farmer who recited the Quran at a rally attended by Asma Jehangir. Land grabs are still ongoing so their unsavory things are by no means a thing of the past.


    What we want is for them to do their job that is to defend the nation's borders, not interfere in policy matters above their pay grade, sponsor terrorist organizations with the blood of thousands of Pakistanis on their hands, run businesses that make bank by using the army's power and influence to win contracts worth billions that wouldn't go to them in a fair competitive environment, abduct, torture and murder people who criticize their illegal activities (the most recent round of abductions being earlier this year with many still unaccounted for). None of that involves laying down their arms. If they did their job instead of trying to rule the country, no one would complain. As for Nawaz, he too is one of their creations that got out of their control. In terms of who has done more harm to the country, all things considered, there's no comparison between them and the likes of Nawaz Sharif.


    True, but then why give the military cart blanche to do the same things NS does, only on a much bigger scale. If there really are enemies intent on destroying us, shouldn't the military be defending us instead of Lashkar e Jhangvi?
    alright then what do you suggest? we let NS and co run roughshod? I agree the army does need to go and do the job it was designed for but we all know its never that simple in Pakistan. Civil society has tried to assert itself in the last few years. The army has been stepping back and trying to right the wrongs of the past but what do you do now? Our institutions are corrupt, the NS supported mafia has permeated throughout the punjab. and when there is a disaster who is asked to help? The only way you can reduce the army's influence is by running the govt competently. Make yourself above reproach and you can then ensure the army is subservient. A corrupt loser like NS cant do any of that and neither can zardari,altaf, the anp traitors or others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Shame on Rangers for violating the constitution. People are celebrating this but civil supremacy is a must. You can not have a state within state.


    btw I don't support PML N or hate PA.
    Why was interior minister of Pakistan attending court proceedings of a criminal? Where is the supremacy of the constitution then?


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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    alright then what do you suggest? we let NS and co run roughshod? I agree the army does need to go and do the job it was designed for but we all know its never that simple in Pakistan. Civil society has tried to assert itself in the last few years. The army has been stepping back and trying to right the wrongs of the past but what do you do now? Our institutions are corrupt, the NS supported mafia has permeated throughout the punjab. and when there is a disaster who is asked to help? The only way you can reduce the army's influence is by running the govt competently. Make yourself above reproach and you can then ensure the army is subservient. A corrupt loser like NS cant do any of that and neither can zardari,altaf, the anp traitors or others.
    dont stop him, its the only reason he is considerd legend among indians here on pp. its his pride to bash pak army, even if army isnt involve in this.

    the so called "son of the ex-army officer" bashing pakistan army, its something new for Indian PPers here.
    let them enjoy the bashing.

    an athiest + abusing islam online + son of ex-army officer = legend for Indians.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewarrior View Post
    dont stop him, its the only reason he is considerd legend among indians here on pp. its his pride to bash pak army, even if army isnt involve in this.

    the so called "son of the ex-army officer" bashing pakistan army, its something new for Indian PPers here.
    let them enjoy the bashing.

    an athiest + abusing islam online + son of ex-army officer = legend for Indians.
    perhaps I need to stop feeding him them...

    I do find it disgraceful that after all of the sacrifices of our young jawaans we have army bashers ready to offload on websites. Everyone can clearly see what is going on in the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    What corruption scandal? Her husband was accused in 2013 of having some loans written off with zero follow up. The fact that you have to lie about her position on NS etc. facing charges (she wants everyone to get their day in court as opposed to the army and acting passing summary judgement) or NS being her patron (you would at least have some credibility if you'd have said PPP) shows how flimsy the entire foundation of your argument is.

    I don't see how she's a hypocrite considering how consistent she has been in her position and the lack of any contradiction between her position on various issues - if you actually follow her views over the last, say, one year, you'll notice she's no more a fan of NS than you are but rightly prioritizes holding the army accountable for it's crimes - so I don't see they hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is condemning PML or PPP because they, and I quote, "stole from the poor" but standing by the army that does the exact same thing and much more that makes PML and PPP look like saints by comparison. Your views would have a lot more credibility if they were consistent and not selectively applied to those you don't like while ignoring those that you do.
    Why do you think there was zero follow up? maybe AZ and NS returned the favour for her unquestioning support. After all AZ has not been convicted of anything either and i am sure you believe that the guy is constitutionalist who is misunderstood and the ISI has planted the billions in his name, just to defame him.
    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...an-written-off

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Why do you think there was zero follow up? maybe AZ and NS returned the favour for her unquestioning support. After all AZ has not been convicted of anything either and i am sure you believe that the guy is constitutionalist who is misunderstood and the ISI has planted the billions in his name, just to defame him.
    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...an-written-off
    So NS and Zardari couldn't stop the law from disqualifying three prime ministers, including NS himself, but they stopped it from pursuing Asma Jehangir. Rest assured, if Asma was guilty of anything, it would have been on the news cycle 24/7 and someone as anti army as Asma would have been skewered by the likes of ARY, Bol and 92 News for even the slightest transgression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    So NS and Zardari couldn't stop the law from disqualifying three prime ministers, including NS himself, but they stopped it from pursuing Asma Jehangir. Rest assured, if Asma was guilty of anything, it would have been on the news cycle 24/7 and someone as anti army as Asma would have been skewered by the likes of ARY, Bol and 92 News for even the slightest transgression.
    I love your fake naivety-The PM`s were disqualified by the SC but the NAB deals with crooks and fake liberals in the initial stages. NAB was desperate to let NS go, it still is but Justice Afzal sits over them like a sword. Why was Hudbiya case closed( read the response of the NAB crooked head in the SC when questioned). Why do you think that AZ has not been convicted in any case? Is he innocent? Does he not have billions abroad? where did the money come from? NS has not been convicted either by any lower? is he innocent? The army is not perfect and is corrupt but to compared to these evil crooks they are like saints. I would take the army over supporters of crooks like you any day of the week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    perhaps I need to stop feeding him them...

    I do find it disgraceful that after all of the sacrifices of our young jawaans we have army bashers ready to offload on websites. Everyone can clearly see what is going on in the country.
    Why don't these army bashers pick up weapons and fight the Taliban themselves? Easy to sit in the comfort of your lounge and behind the safety of your keyboard to criticize those that are laying down lives for the country.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Why don't these army bashers pick up weapons and fight the Taliban themselves? Easy to sit in the comfort of your lounge and behind the safety of your keyboard to criticize those that are laying down lives for the country.
    becoz backstabbers always attacks on backs, dont have courage to cme forward infront of army.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    I love your fake naivety-The PM`s were disqualified by the SC but the NAB deals with crooks and fake liberals in the initial stages. NAB was desperate to let NS go, it still is but Justice Afzal sits over them like a sword. Why was Hudbiya case closed( read the response of the NAB crooked head in the SC when questioned). Why do you think that AZ has not been convicted in any case? Is he innocent? Does he not have billions abroad? where did the money come from? NS has not been convicted either by any lower? is he innocent? The army is not perfect and is corrupt but to compared to these evil crooks they are like saints. I would take the army over supporters of crooks like you any day of the week.
    Like I said, had there been any dirt, the likes of ARY and BOL would not have let us hear the end of it regardless of whether or not the law took it's course. This kind of attempts at character assassination are not uncommon from the Pakistani nationalist far right, which you're part of for some reason despite not being Pakistani, and people like Asma Jehangir rightly pay no heed to it. If there's something you think she's guilty of, move the courts and produce evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Why don't these army bashers pick up weapons and fight the Taliban themselves? Easy to sit in the comfort of your lounge and behind the safety of your keyboard to criticize those that are laying down lives for the country.
    Because we pay our taxes so they do their job, not try to run the country. They're not doing anyone a favor by fighting the Taliban, that's what they get paid for by us. Why don't these army supporters answer for the thousands killed by Lashkar e Jhangvi who the army props up or the millions of acres of land worth tens of billions of dollars that the army has stolen? If I'm doing a job I'm paid for, that doesn't entitle me to declare myself CEO of the company no matter how corrupt the actual CEO is.


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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Why don't these army bashers pick up weapons and fight the Taliban themselves? Easy to sit in the comfort of your lounge and behind the safety of your keyboard to criticize those that are laying down lives for the country.
    there is no drafting in Pakistan and most of the officers are children of army men (cause of quota) so why special privilege?
    I want Army to do their job...instead of doing the politics and business. too much to ask?


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewarrior View Post
    becoz backstabbers always attacks on backs, dont have courage to cme forward infront of army.
    Said every single thing I've said in this thread to a serving DG MI in his drawing room.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    there is no drafting in Pakistan and most of the officers are children of army men (cause of quota) so why special privilege?
    I want Army to do their job...instead of doing the politics and business. too much to ask?
    So when there is disaster... flood earthquake why they call out the army? let them do their job and man the borders? So when there are elections why is the army called out to safeguard the polling stations? let them do their job and man the borders? When the Chinese come with the bucketload of investment why is it that army that is called to safeguard them and their assets? let them do their job and man the borders?


    I can go on and on... There is no government is Pakistan. Be happy that the "big bad army" is keeping it all together. Otherwise if Pakistan had a weak army we won't be faring any better than present day Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya etc etc, specially if we left it to filthy scums like Nawaz and your favourite Zardari.


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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Said every single thing I've said in this thread to a serving DG MI in his drawing room.
    yes yes, and you have visited the Oval office too, anything else you wana add ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    So when there is disaster... flood earthquake why they call out the army? let them do their job and man the borders? So when there are elections why is the army called out to safeguard the polling stations? let them do their job and man the borders? When the Chinese come with the bucketload of investment why is it that army that is called to safeguard them and their assets? let them do their job and man the borders?


    I can go on and on... There is no government is Pakistan. Be happy that the "big bad army" is keeping it all together. Otherwise if Pakistan had a weak army we won't be faring any better than present day Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya etc etc, specially if we left it to filthy scums like Nawaz and your favourite Zardari.

    You answered your own questions by starting "So when there is disaster"

    Regarding safeguarding the polling stations, NS or AAZ demanding this?

    IMO, Army is to follow orders and not to give the orders and play umpire's role.

    anyway this is just academic...bloody civilians will keep serving the Army. Tragic part is that slaves are in love with master...(i.e. stockholm syndrome)


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    there is no drafting in Pakistan and most of the officers are children of army men (cause of quota) so why special privilege?
    I want Army to do their job...instead of doing the politics and business. too much to ask?
    I know 6-7 army officers who did not have any relatives in the army.

    Just as a bureaucrat's son is encouraged to join civil service or politician's son is attracted towards politics, similarly there are children of army men who are either encouraged or themselves find army attractive.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post

    or the millions of acres of land worth tens of billions of dollars that the army has stolen? If I'm doing a job I'm paid for, that doesn't entitle me to declare myself CEO of the company no matter how corrupt the actual CEO is.
    From where this figure comes from?


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    I know 6-7 army officers who did not have any relatives in the army.

    Just as a bureaucrat's son is encouraged to join civil service or politician's son is attracted towards politics, similarly there are children of army men who are either encouraged or themselves find army attractive.
    Amry sons are given preference.

    anyway, point is that no one forcing them to pick this line as career.


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    Amry sons are given preference.

    anyway, point is that no one forcing them to pick this line as career.
    What is the point of this point? That if some one is maimed for life or dies in a terror attack or is killed by an enemy bullet it is the choice he made and this does not need any respect from other countrymen?


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    The hypocrisy of the sarkari patriots is exposed when they complain about Altaf threatening journalists but have nothing to say about the army kidnapping, torturing and, more often than not, killing journalists and bloggers. It's equally evident when Nawaz is the devil incarnate because he stole from the people but the army, who have stolen at least as much if not more, get a free pass. Altaf is a terrorist because his party has an armed wing but the army propping up Lashkar e Jhangvi (among others), who have killed more Pakistanis than anyone bar TTP, again gets a free pass. Asma has maintained that whatever the crimes of people like Altaf or Nawaz, they're entitled to their day in court and a rigorous defense which is fair. Her stance that the army must be opposed, in a state where people routinely disappear for having such views, often turning up dead years later in some remote part of the country, is commendable to say the least and no hypocritical rants will change that.
    Conclusion is: Let Altaf Hussain threaten and kill people, carry on his bhatta khori, kidnapping for ransom because Army also picks up people, don't even talk about Nawaz Sharif corruption because Army is also involved in corruption.

    We have a civil military war in country and all the democracy lovers MUST abuse the Army to prove their love for democracy, we must not criticise civilian government otherwise it makes military camp stronger.

    Panama, what Panama? Who cares if there has been BBC documentaries about Nawaz Sharif corruption or Ishaq Dar money laundering? We will still support democratic Nawaz Sharif because it helps strengthen democracy.

    Don't even talk about the Lashkar e Jahngvi and banned outfits, Nawaz Sharif and his right hand Rana Sanaullah have always supported these groups and Ahmed Ludhyanvi has won elections purely with help form Nawaz Sharif.

    Who carried out military attack against terrorists when civilians (YES INCLUDING PTI and PMLN) were still talking about peace talks??

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    So NS and Zardari couldn't stop the law from disqualifying three prime ministers, including NS himself, but they stopped it from pursuing Asma Jehangir. Rest assured, if Asma was guilty of anything, it would have been on the news cycle 24/7 and someone as anti army as Asma would have been skewered by the likes of ARY, Bol and 92 News for even the slightest transgression.
    Ironicall Nawaz Sharif appoints Major (R) Chaudhry Qamar Zaman as NAB head. A retired major from Army who ALHAMDULILLAH has corruption charges against him is appointed head of NAB to punish corrupt civilians and this is how CIVILIAN supermacy is restoted by democratic Nawaz Sharif.

    Matlab corrupt fauji isko bhi achay lagtay hain but his followers (yes you don't support him) tell us that faujis are corrupt so we will support corrupt politicians instead.

    Unlike you, i won't defend any fauji who steals from nation. Hang them all in Islamabad for all i care. Lot of them are involved in corruption with help of our chief architect of democracy Malik Riaz but Nawaz Sharif himself uses him to make deals with Zardari so talaab main sab ganday hain.

  64. #64
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    a small anecdote , a very very close relative of mine (I wont say who) was a serving officer during the zia era. At one point he was asked to mediate between a very prominent balochi sardar and asif ali zardari. So I asked him what he though of zardari? his comment "it was as if someone had come into my office and overturned a garbage can. I couldnt wait to get rid of him" This was when zardari was the owner of the cinemas in karachi..

    these are our politicians.

  65. #65
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    hmm...



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  66. #66
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    So when is he going to resign?



    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

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    Rangers have now stopped doing security of parliment building and asking for a written order.
    While no one gave the written order to secure accountability courts.
    And rangers come under interior ministry.

    What a banana state!

  69. #69
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    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    Rangers have now stopped doing security of parliment building and asking for a written order.
    While no one gave the written order to secure accountability courts.
    And rangers come under interior ministry.

    What a banana state!
    Incorrect and complete lies, but what else to expect from someone who supports Asif Zardari.


    DC Islamabad wrote a letter to Pak Rangers requesting security for accountability courts and hence the Rangers were stationed there.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Incorrect and complete lies, but what else to expect from someone who supports Asif Zardari.


    DC Islamabad wrote a letter to Pak Rangers requesting security for accountability courts and hence the Rangers were stationed there.
    I saw that "letter"
    and this further enhance my point that Pakistan is a banana state.


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    I saw that "letter"
    and this further enhance my point that Pakistan is a banana state.
    More because your favourite PPP has been ruling it.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Stop making up numbers there is no shame in admitting.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/pakista...a-wb-data.html

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    Stop making up numbers there is no shame in admitting.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/pakista...a-wb-data.html
    Dude its ok he had meeting with DG MI and gave him shut up call


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Incorrect and complete lies, but what else to expect from someone who supports Asif Zardari.


    DC Islamabad wrote a letter to Pak Rangers requesting security for accountability courts and hence the Rangers were stationed there.

    Incorrect and complete lies...really? (okay if you say so)




    Letter was written by SSP Islamabad to DC Islamabad:

    Name:  ssp001.jpg
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    DC Islamabad said in press release:
    In a press release from his office, the deputy commissioner acknowledged receiving a letter from the Senior Superintendent of Police (Operations), but said he took no action over the matter after discussing it with the senior police officer.


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  76. #76
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    Don't care what letters you bring. Corrupt minister who was there to boot lick his criminal master was shown his place. I will get behind every institution that shows these filthy scums their place.


    Long live Pak Army. Death to bloody politicians.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Don't care what letters you bring. Corrupt minister who was there to boot lick his criminal master was shown his place. I will get behind every institution that shows these filthy scums their place.


    Long live Pak Army. Death to bloody politicians.
    I understand your anger about current/past civilian governments and I am fine with it...

    but you said to me "Incorrect and complete lies, but what else to expect from someone who supports Asif Zardari.
    Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?265269-Whose-orders-is-Rangers-following-I-cannot-be-a-puppet-interior-minister-Ahsan-Iqbal#lrcZBRigVZcJXgrr.99"

    was it fair?


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    Incorrect and complete lies...really? (okay if you say so)




    Letter was written by SSP Islamabad to DC Islamabad:

    DC Islamabad said in press release:
    Your very own jamhoori govt imposed Article 245 in Islamabad and extended it last mont on the request of commissioner Islamabad. I hope you know what is Article 245? You can google it if you want to know...


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Your very own jamhoori govt imposed Article 245 in Islamabad and extended it last mont on the request of commissioner Islamabad. I hope you know what is Article 245? You can google it if you want to know...
    I agree it's a joke.


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Dude its ok he had meeting with DG MI and gave him shut up call
    Weren't you disputing my figures about military owning agricultural land? You conveniently disappeared when those were backed by evidence. Same thing happened when you disputed my claim of them supporting LeJ. This is becoming a pattern, you accuse me of lying, then I post evidence and you either go missing or ignoring the posts that prove that you're defending an institution you don't know anything about. As for the DG MI, a coursemate of my dad's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    Stop making up numbers there is no shame in admitting.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/pakista...a-wb-data.html
    What shame, I gave you a source for the figure, here's another one that puts the number even lower at 24.4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...owing_capacity

    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Conclusion is: Let Altaf Hussain threaten and kill people, carry on his bhatta khori, kidnapping for ransom because Army also picks up people, don't even talk about Nawaz Sharif corruption because Army is also involved in corruption.

    We have a civil military war in country and all the democracy lovers MUST abuse the Army to prove their love for democracy, we must not criticise civilian government otherwise it makes military camp stronger.

    Panama, what Panama? Who cares if there has been BBC documentaries about Nawaz Sharif corruption or Ishaq Dar money laundering? We will still support democratic Nawaz Sharif because it helps strengthen democracy.

    Don't even talk about the Lashkar e Jahngvi and banned outfits, Nawaz Sharif and his right hand Rana Sanaullah have always supported these groups and Ahmed Ludhyanvi has won elections purely with help form Nawaz Sharif.

    Who carried out military attack against terrorists when civilians (YES INCLUDING PTI and PMLN) were still talking about peace talks??
    That is not at all the conclusion, that is you falsely attributing a bunch of nonsense to me in order to claim some sort of moral high ground, not for the first time. No one said let Altaf etc do whatever it is that they do. What I did however say was that you guys (the three quoted here and Bewal) are hypocrites because you complain about Altaf this and Nawaz that but your only response to someone pointing out that the institution you lot support does the same thing is to engage in personal attacks, whataboutism and false attribution to make your point. If Altaf or Nawaz doing something is wrong, why is army doing the same thing not worthy of condemnation?

    I don't see how you reach the conclusion that opposition to the army somehow equates to support for NS or Zardari, though I must add that this was the same conclusion you reached when I opposed Imran so lets not pretend that it's about principles or you're actually concerned about corruption given how blatantly you're willing to let the most corrupt entity in the nation a pass on their misdeeds because they're opposed to NS. Simply put, your opposed to certain individuals, not institutional corruption and it's that hypocrisy I'm calling out, not lamenting the woes afflicting Nawaz Sharif, the man who steals from my province to invest in his.

    As for Jhangvi, why not? This is an army backed organization and has a body count rivaled only by TTP so why shouldn't I talk about them? The reason Nawaz etc could even think of forming an alliance with them is because the army says these guys are kosher and oh, just for the record, your party also formed an alliance with them in AJK. There's a reason none of these right wing parties can form an alliance with the TTP the way they do with LeJ and it's not because Nawaz or Zardari won't approve, it's because unlike LeJ, TTP is not copacetic with the army. In all such matters, the army has the final say so if you're going to bring up Nawaz allying with ASWJ etc, at least admit to the hypocrisy of ignoring the army's kingmaker role when it comes to terrorist organizations.

    I'm glad you brought up the military operation because that brings me to the next question: Why the double standards wrt militants? Why did the same army continue supporting the second deadliest terrorist organization in the country despite said organization continuing to carry out attacks regularly on Pakistani soil? What's so special about LeJ that they can't be targeted the way TTP, an organization that doesn't answer to the army, is?


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

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