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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Weren't you disputing my figures about military owning agricultural land? You conveniently disappeared when those were backed by evidence. Same thing happened when you disputed my claim of them supporting LeJ. This is becoming a pattern, you accuse me of lying, then I post evidence and you either go missing or ignoring the posts that prove that you're defending an institution you don't know anything about. As for the DG MI, a coursemate of my dad's.

    I don't disappear, I just don't have patience to argue with people who are suffering from severe paranoia and see everything through army hate lenses. Heck you even turn a thread about North Korea into Pak Army bashing thread. No point arguing with people who cannot be objective.


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    I don't disappear, I just don't have patience to argue with people who are suffering from severe paranoia and see everything through army hate lenses. Heck you even turn a thread about North Korea into Pak Army bashing thread. No point arguing with people who cannot be objective.
    Translation: I make claims like "x is shooting from the hip" or "y is lying" but when x and y come up with incontrovertible evidence to disprove my allegations and prove theirs, I don't have anything else to fall back on.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but every single time you've accused me of lying or not knowing what I'm talking about, be it LeJ, the army's land holdings, or income levels among British Pakistanis, have I or have I not come up with well referenced evidence to back my claims?

    As far as the North Korea thread is concerned, didn't you start off with referencing Nawaz and Zardari? I simply pointed out that the closest thing we have to the Kim dynasty is the military, not the civilians. Again, that claim was backed with evidence and again, you disappeared.
    Last edited by DW44; 5th October 2017 at 14:55.


    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    What shame, I gave you a source for the figure, here's another one that puts the number even lower at 24.4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...owing_capacity
    Sorry for jumping in your argument but are you saying Pak Mil own 4.5 million hectares of agr land (20% of 22.04 million hectares) ?

    Source: http://www.agripunjab.gov.pk/overview%20new


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Sorry for jumping in your argument but are you saying Pak Mil own 4.5 million hectares of agr land (20% of 22.04 million hectares) ?

    Source: http://www.agripunjab.gov.pk/overview%20new
    I'm saying it owns at least 8.1 million acres - 3.3 million ha - (accurate up to 2007 and missing land grabs since then - details in a previous post) out of a total cultivated area of 53 million acres (sourced in a previous post).


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    I'm saying it owns at least 8.1 million acres - 3.3 million ha - (accurate up to 2007 and missing land grabs since then - details in a previous post) out of a total cultivated area of 53 million acres (sourced in a previous post).
    But but but in your first post you said army owns 20% of total agro land.


    8.1/53 * 100 = 15%


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    I'm saying it owns at least 8.1 million acres - 3.3 million ha - (accurate up to 2007 and missing land grabs since then - details in a previous post) out of a total cultivated area of 53 million acres (sourced in a previous post).
    Do you seriously believe that?


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    But but but in your first post you said army owns 20% of total agro land.


    8.1/53 * 100 = 15%
    Yes, and I added that the 15.3% figure is from an incomplete list of their land holdings that doesn't include land grabs after 2007 so +4.7% is my low end figure for the missing data from 2007 onwards. Regardless, the fact that they even own 15.3% makes anything Nawaz or Zardari have done look trivial by comparison. That land is worth tens of billions of dollars (more likely hundreds given it's productivity levels but lets play it safe here) at the very least and the army has no business owning it.


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Do you seriously believe that?
    The data is from one of the most well respected academics when it comes to our army and every single claim is referenced from the works of several other highly credible sources like Hasan Askari Rizvi and Rasul Baksh Raees.


    Roses are red
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW44 View Post
    Yes, and I added that the 15.3% figure is from an incomplete list of their land holdings that doesn't include land grabs after 2007 so +4.7% is my low end figure for the missing data from 2007 onwards. Regardless, the fact that they even own 15.3% makes anything Nawaz or Zardari have done look trivial by comparison. That land is worth tens of billions of dollars (more likely hundreds given it's productivity levels but lets play it safe here) at the very least and the army has no business owning it.
    So you are admitting you lied originally and shot from the hip like you like to do from time to time?


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    So you are admitting you lied originally and shot from the hip like you like to do from time to time?
    Not at all. I made all of this very clear from the outset. I'll even go so far as to say that 20% is a conservative estimate considering that at least 15 of those 20% are already accounted for and that's not even including land grabs in the last ten years. And like I said, please point out one instance where you accused me of shooting from the hip where I didn't then come up with evidence and you disappeared? Just one.
    Last edited by DW44; 5th October 2017 at 15:09.


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    So you are admitting you lied originally and shot from the hip like you like to do from time to time?
    what happened to my "lies"?

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...91#post9452691


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    Anyone talking about something our friend here doesn't know about is lying by default e.g. a programmer talking about abstraction (since our friend doesn't know about it, it doesn't exist. End of.) or a particle physicist talking about electro-weak interactions.


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    PS. Thanks for that link. @Mian that's an official source from the government and that too puts the area under cultivation at around 27.7%.


    Roses are red
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    Military and mullah
    *Redacted*

  14. #94
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    Who cares about the exact figure? Argue the post because he's made some valid points.

  15. #95
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    All the PMLN official and unofficial supporters, please take a note. Today's court hearing has been adjourned as PMLN Gullu Butt lawyers created chaos inside the court.

    Is this Banana republic?
    Is PMLN creating state within state?
    Is this what PMLN wanted to do and couldn't last time due to rangers presence?
    Is democracy more stronger under these goons?



    The accountability court adjourned the hearing of the graft cases against the Sharif family soon after ousted prime minister Nawaz Sharif's daughter and son-in-law — Maryam Nawaz and Captain (retd) Safdar — arrived in court as PML-N lawyers and supporters created a racket while trying to enter the courtroom.

    Just as accountability court Judge Muhammad Bashir entered the courtroom a number of lawyers associated with PML-N forced their way into the court and surrounded the judge's bench claiming that they were manhandled by the security forces outside the court and kept from entering the courtroom.

    The lawyers threatened that they would not allow the court to proceed with the hearing until actions is taken against the police officials that has manhandled them.

    As a result of the racket, Judge Bashir decided to end court proceedings for the day and asked both defendants to leave the courtroom and return for the hearing on October 18.

    ADVERTISEMENT
    While speaking to the media on her way out of the court Maryam Nawaz asked the interior ministry to come up with a strategy to keep such events from occurring in the future.

    Once PML-N supporters and lawyers found out that the hearing has been adjourned the crowd dispersed.

    On Thursday, Maryam left for Islamabad on a special plane to appear before the trial court, along with her husband, who has recently come under fire from several quarters, including his own party, for demanding that the government ban the Ahmadi community from government and military service.

    On Oct 9, the accountability court in Islamabad observed that Sharif, Maryam Nawaz and Captain Safdar would be indicted on Oct 13 (today).

    However, NAB Deputy Prosecutor General Chaudhry Khaliquz Zaman had told Dawn that Nawaz could not be indicted till he appeared in court. “Under the law a suspect cannot be charged in absentia,” he said.

    It had also ordered NAB to initiate the process of declaring Sharif’s sons — Hassan and Hussain — proclaimed offenders, for consistently skipping court proceedings in the graft references pertaining to the Park Lane flats and the establishment of offshore companies.

    NAB has given them 30 days (from Oct 11) to appear in court.

    During her three-day stay in Lahore, Maryam did not visit her Jati Umra residence but stayed at her son-in-law’s home on The Mall.

    She did not meet party workers from NA-120, many of whom were expecting her to meet them and congratulate her for her mother’s victory in the by-election.

    Maryam had left for London within hours of the announcement of the election result.

    This is a developing story that is being updated as the situation evolves. Initial reports in the media can sometimes be inaccurate. We will strive to ensure timeliness and accuracy by relying on credible sources such as concerned, qualified authorities and our staff reporters.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1363549/ma...lawyers-racket

  16. #96
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    Last edited by Waseem; 13th October 2017 at 05:48.

  17. #97
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    Now we know why they were against Rangers because Ranger wasn't allowing this ghunde baazi of PMLN. It's a second attack by them on a court.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  18. #98
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    Lets see the democrats explain this away. Where is our friend that derails all the threads to blame the army. As i said the army needs to give the Nooras a proper beating, otherwise they think they are God.

  19. #99
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    again, i cant find the "moom batti brigade" on this incident.


    The Griffins ....

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewarrior View Post
    again, i cant find the "moom batti brigade" on this incident.
    Because Army is mother of all evils and these politicians are the angels of this soil.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  21. #101
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    Interior Minister Ahsan Iqbal in a statement issued by his public relations officer on Friday said that the Director General of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor, should refrain from commenting on the country's economic situation, DawnNews reported.

    Ahsan's response comes a day after Maj Gen Ghafoor's interview on a private TV channel in which he had said: "If the economy is not bad, it is not doing so well either."

    "This [economy] is the minister of finance's and government's subject," Major Gen Ghafoor had said in the interview. "At this time, sitting together and discussing how to improve the economy is important. Pakistan Army has to shape the environment of the security in such a way that people come and people in Pakistan can do their business easily."

    On Wednesday, army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa had addressed the leaders of Karachi's business community, stressing that economic stability was tied deeply to Pakistan's security concerns.

    Gen Bajwa had said that Pakistan needs to expand its tax base, bring in financial discipline and ensure continuity of economic policies to be able to break the begging bowl, military's media wing had reported.

    “The economy is showing mixed indicators,” he had said before an audience of businessmen and the military leadership of Karachi at a day-long event organised by the Federation of Pakistan Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FPCCI) and ISPR at the DHA Golf Club.

    “Growth has picked up but the debts are sky high. [The situation regarding] infrastructure and energy have improved considerably but the current account balance is not in our favour,” Bajwa was quoted as saying.

    The closest Gen Bajwa came to identifying economic priorities was when he stressed the need for widening the tax base, bringing in fiscal discipline and ensuring continuity of economic policies.

    "Pakistan's economy is stable," said Iqbal in his statement on Friday. "Irresponsible statements will bring disrepute to the country," Iqbal added, claiming that the economy today was doing a lot better than it was in 2013.

    PTI chief Imran Khan was quick to respond to the interior minister's statement in a tweet, calling the "unwarranted attack" on ISPR "absurd".

    He blamed Nawaz Sharif and Finance Minister Ishaq Dar for "crushing the nation under debt".

    Later, Iqbal, who is currently in the United States, while talking to DawnNews said that such statements by the ISPR chief can have a serious impact on an international level.

    "Imports of the country have increased because we are investing in machinery to increase electricity production," he explained. “I think DG ISPR is in no capacity to comment on the country's economy."

    Such statements give an impression that the country's economy is in doldrums, so it became necessary for me to issue a clarification, Iqbal maintained.

    “This is not a war of words; we will take up this matter before the national security council as well,” he said.

    Talking to Geo News later in the day, Iqbal said, "We have an emerging economy and it is evident from increasing direct foreign investment, increased production, completion of CPEC projects in stipulated time, we have also doubled our taxation in last four years."

    We need to portray a better and positive image of the country, instead of raising such voices which creates concerns among foreign investors, he added.

    He also defended the Foreign Minister Khawaja Asif's statement saying that it was a fact that we need to put our house in order. Asif's statement showed that we know our vulnerabilities and this realisation will increase the level of trust on Pakistan. "But the DG ISPR's statement was a very strong statement, it could have negative impacts."

    It is pertinent to mention that the World Bank has also warned that macroeconomic risks in Pakistan have increased substantially during the fiscal year 2017, as the external balance is particularly vulnerable given the persistent current account deficit, affecting the country’s reserve position.

    Pakistan’s weaker macroeconomic discipline has led to vulnerabilities in the balance of payments. Since the International Monetary Fund (IMF) programme came to an end, external indicators of the economy have deteriorated, says ‘The South Asia Economic Focus Fall 2017’ released earlier this month, ahead of the World Bank and IMF annual meetings.


    https://www.dawn.com/news/1363592/is...erior-minister

  22. #102
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    Did anyone else see the Noora cretin slap the Police officer?

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Did anyone else see the Noora cretin slap the Police officer?
    TBH, I've seen how the "police officers" in Pakistan act with their 'no fear' homemade shirts especially at jalsas etc. They're corrupt and not very professional. If these tossers tried that with the rangers, I would imagine that their hands would be right up where the sun don't shine.

  24. #104
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    I wouldn't be surprised if some of the PK cops were in on the ruckus that was to ensue.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Did anyone else see the Noora cretin slap the Police officer?
    Punjabi police are finally paying the price for serving as slaves of house sharifs instead of serving the state.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Punjabi police are finally paying the price for serving as slaves of house sharifs instead of serving the state.
    It must be galling for the Police to think that they are being slapped by the very people they have committed so many crimes for.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick85 View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if some of the PK cops were in on the ruckus that was to ensue.
    Did you know Punjab police attended PMLN lawyer convention few days ago prestending as lawyers? They act as personal servants of Sharifs and this is why Sharifs don't like Army becase they can't use them as servants.

    Seeing a friendly slap on the face of police, i wouldn't be susprised if it was pre planned just like police hitting PMLN lawyer in the head. Why would PMLN bring scores of lawyers inside the court and why would they clash with police?

    They tried similar drama last time but couldn't do muchwith rangers so used their own police to give impression that police, judges, Army etc is all against them and they are the VICTIMS.

    Only PMLN supporters and "Rent a liberal" group falls for cheap tactics of Sharifs, these are all delaying tactis and hey got what they wanted in the end.

    I don't even know why judge would postpone this for a week rather than taking a short break before PMLN goons are brought under control?

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Did you know Punjab police attended PMLN lawyer convention few days ago prestending as lawyers? They act as personal servants of Sharifs and this is why Sharifs don't like Army becase they can't use them as servants.

    Seeing a friendly slap on the face of police, i wouldn't be susprised if it was pre planned just like police hitting PMLN lawyer in the head. Why would PMLN bring scores of lawyers inside the court and why would they clash with police?

    They tried similar drama last time but couldn't do muchwith rangers so used their own police to give impression that police, judges, Army etc is all against them and they are the VICTIMS.

    Only PMLN supporters and "Rent a liberal" group falls for cheap tactics of Sharifs, these are all delaying tactis and hey got what they wanted in the end.

    I don't even know why judge would postpone this for a week rather than taking a short break before PMLN goons are brought under control?
    You may be right but its shut the Noora brigade. Not a single comment, i wonder why?

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