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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Don't give me too much credit. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.
    it was your fault pakistan won the CT

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    These are not regulars at international level yet they are regular in PSL.

    How many regulars from Aus, SA, NZ, India play in PSL? Almost all of them play IPL.So what are you on about.The player pool in IPL far exceeds anything in PSL.

    Jason Roy is a regular for England . Pollard and Narine would play for the West Indies in ODIs if it wasn't for issues with WICB.

    IPL has bigger player pool and much more resources but your making out as though PSL has no quality foreigners that would play in IPL also.

    Furthermore not all leagues are fortunate as the IPL that the cricketing calender halts for them. You think if Australia,South Africa, and NZ had international fixtures your precious IPL would still be as popular?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    it was your fault pakistan won the CT
    Well I did see it coming after the South African game.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is not a single player in the world who would prefer to play in the PSL at the expense of the IPL, and the tragedy is that even Pakistani players would most probably prefer to play in the IPL over the PSL.
    When it comes to player pool, IPL is fortunate that the the international schedule is eased to allow players to participate in the IPL.

  5. #85
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    What’s funny is that a “minnow league” has produced the #1 T20 team in the world.

    Whereas the holy IPL has produced the #5 T20 team.

    Someone tell me what this shows?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    As far as I can tell one side is ranked top of the pile in T20 cricket
    Why give the ranking so much importance in T20s, but not care about Pakistan being ranked #6 in ODIs and 7th in T20s? T20 rankings are volatile and unreliable.

  7. #87
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    PSL will never match IPL's star power because PCB does not have the resources of BCCI. However, PSL does not need too many big names if there are fewer number of teams and better local talent.

    Gayle may still play IPL not because IPL is inferior to PSL but because he is an attraction. People will pay to see him play. Players like him and Afridi will always get these T20 contracts.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    When it comes to player pool, IPL is fortunate that the the international schedule is eased to allow players to participate in the IPL.
    The major reason why there is a window in the first place is to avoid the inevitable friction between the boards and the players. A lot of people are under the impression that if the IPL were to clash with international calendar, all players would honor their national duty.

    Unfortunately that is not the case, and the number of players who would opt to play in the IPL would surprise many. Besides, the BCCI has worked hard over the last two decades to reach the position they are in today. In the 90's, they were as irrelevant as PCB is today, and we should appreciate how they have managed to become the most powerful cricket board in the world that has the ICC on a leash now. There are lessons to be learned and inspiration to draw.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The major reason why there is a window in the first place is to avoid the inevitable friction between the boards and the players. A lot of people are under the impression that if the IPL were to clash with international calendar, all players would honor their national duty.

    Unfortunately that is not the case, and the number of players who would opt to play in the IPL would surprise many. Besides, the BCCI has worked hard over the last two decades to reach the position they are in today. In the 90's, they were as irrelevant as PCB is today, and we should appreciate how they have managed to become the most powerful cricket board in the world that has the ICC on a leash now. There are lessons to be learned and inspiration to draw.

    I agree with your 1st paragraph but don't see the likes of Smith,Warner, Williamson,and De Kock picking IPL over playing for there international teams.

    West Indies players and players coming towards the end of there careers could choose IPL over national honours but shouldn't speculate till such situation arises.

  10. #90
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    Well he ended Saeed Ajmal's domestic career. The highlight of his PSL career


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    What’s funny is that a “minnow league” has produced the #1 T20 team in the world.

    Whereas the holy IPL has produced the #5 T20 team.

    Someone tell me what this shows?
    Since the advent of the IPL, India has won the World Cup, the Champions Trophy, made it to a World T20 final, an has occupied the number one ranking in ODIs for a considerable period. They have also produced a Limited Overs GOAT batsman in the making.

    If Pakistan achieves 75% of that in the post PSL era, how much credit do you think PSL will get?

    Hence, let's not walk that path. Besides, our 'number one' ranking in T20s is based on bashing West Indies a few thousand times, and it looks like we are not done with it yet. Now we are going to take that bashing to the U.S. it seems.

    India is a better T20 team than Pakistan by quite some distance. If we were to play 10 T20s now, they would probably end up winning 7. Their bowling is very good and their batting is 10x better than ours.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    I agree with your 1st paragraph but don't see the likes of Smith,Warner, Williamson,and De Kock picking IPL over playing for there international teams.

    West Indies players and players coming towards the end of there careers could choose IPL over national honours but shouldn't speculate till such situation arises.
    Such a situation will not arise because the boards are wary of the fact that the pull of the IPL is very strong. Young players around the world dream of IPL contracts. After smashing a hundred against India in the U.S. last year, the first thing Evin Lewis said was that he hopes that it will get him an IPL contract.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Such a situation will not arise because the boards are wary of the fact that the pull of the IPL is very strong. Young players around the world dream of IPL contracts. After smashing a hundred against India in the U.S. last year, the first thing Evin Lewis said was that he hopes that it will get him an IPL contract.
    A shame that Lewis may not play in the PSL.

  14. #94
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    Haan haan bhai IPL is the best thing to ever happen to cricket.. tabhi India hasn't won a single T20 WC since the IPL started.


    #Mein inko rolaonga

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Since the advent of the IPL, India has won the World Cup, the Champions Trophy, made it to a World T20 final, an has occupied the number one ranking in ODIs for a considerable period. They have also produced a Limited Overs GOAT batsman in the making.

    If Pakistan achieves 75% of that in the post PSL era, how much credit do you think PSL will get?

    Hence, let's not walk that path. Besides, our 'number one' ranking in T20s is based on bashing West Indies a few thousand times, and it looks like we are not done with it yet. Now we are going to take that bashing to the U.S. it seems.

    India is a better T20 team than Pakistan by quite some distance. If we were to play 10 T20s now, they would probably end up winning 7. Their bowling is very good and their batting is 10x better than ours.
    Indian batting is in jeopardy at the moment - even an Indian poster would admit this. All depends on Rohit and Kohli in T20.

    The middle-lower order cannot be trusted ever.

    It would be much closer than you think.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    These are not regulars at international level yet they are regular in PSL.

    How many regulars from Aus, SA, NZ, India play in PSL? Almost all of them play IPL.So what are you on about.The player pool in IPL far exceeds anything in PSL.
    That is because most of the players are busy at that time..PSL does not have a window...use your brain if you have any.
    It is so heartening to see Indian fans get insecure of PSL that is only 3 seasons old

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Haan haan bhai IPL is the best thing to ever happen to cricket.. tabhi India hasn't won a single T20 WC since the IPL started.
    AHHAHAHA good one

  18. #98
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    The difference between IPL and PSL quality can be compared by the fact that PSL product Shadab Khan made a remarkable debut and IPL talent Siraj turned out to be a laughing stock...

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Jason Roy is a regular for England . Pollard and Narine would play for the West Indies in ODIs if it wasn't for issues with WICB.

    IPL has bigger player pool and much more resources but your making out as though PSL has no quality foreigners that would play in IPL also.

    Furthermore not all leagues are fortunate as the IPL that the cricketing calender halts for them. You think if Australia,South Africa, and NZ had international fixtures your precious IPL would still be as popular?

    So one English regular plays in PSL?Pollard Narine play in any league that will have them.

    I didnot make out anything.The OP did.Trying to make it look like IPL performers are PSL rejects.I didnt make the comparision. Almost every foreign player of PSL puts his nAme up for the IPL auction but there are many IPL players who do not put their names in PSL and many of them are the cream of world cricket.


    Not all leagues are IPL. You would do well to remember that.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Indian batting is in jeopardy at the moment - even an Indian poster would admit this. All depends on Rohit and Kohli in T20.

    The middle-lower order cannot be trusted ever.

    It would be much closer than you think.
    Their top 3 is better than our entire batting lineup, and they are not going to fall cheaply every time. Kohli alone has destroyed us a few dozen times over the years, the Champions Trophy final was a just a one-off failure for him against us.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    When it comes to player pool, IPL is fortunate that the the international schedule is eased to allow players to participate in the IPL.
    IPL is fortunate.Ok.Please ask PCB to try and do the same.Why cant pcb do it?

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Since the advent of the IPL, India has won the World Cup, the Champions Trophy, made it to a World T20 final, an has occupied the number one ranking in ODIs for a considerable period. They have also produced a Limited Overs GOAT batsman in the making.

    If Pakistan achieves 75% of that in the post PSL era, how much credit do you think PSL will get?

    Hence, let's not walk that path. Besides, our 'number one' ranking in T20s is based on bashing West Indies a few thousand times, and it looks like we are not done with it yet. Now we are going to take that bashing to the U.S. it seems.

    India is a better T20 team than Pakistan by quite some distance. If we were to play 10 T20s now, they would probably end up winning 7. Their bowling is very good and their batting is 10x better than ours.
    Btw this is pakpassion not indpassion....
    Also we thrashed the same west Indies that beat India thrice the last 3 times they played.
    Also ipl has been in existance for 10 years whereas psl has only been in existance for 2 years. Despite this psl has produced as much talent as IPL. Psl has produced Hasan, babar, shadab, shinwari, hasaan khan, Fakhar, rumman, usama

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    So one English regular plays in PSL?Pollard Narine play in any league that will have them.

    I didnot make out anything.The OP did.Trying to make it look like IPL performers are PSL rejects.I didnt make the comparision. Almost every foreign player of PSL puts his nAme up for the IPL auction but there are many IPL players who do not put their names in PSL and many of them are the cream of world cricket.


    Not all leagues are IPL. You would do well to remember that.

    Morgan,Alex Hales has been a sup pick for the last 2 years, Moen Ali was going to play last year but went to Umarah. Other England players made themselves available but weren't selected this year.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Their top 3 is better than our entire batting lineup, and they are not going to fall cheaply every time. Kohli alone has destroyed us a few dozen times over the years, the Champions Trophy final was a just a one-off failure for him against us.
    Yes a few dozen times over the years. When the likes of Rahat Ali and Wahab Riaz spearheaded our attack.

    The first game in the CT he was batting terribly until he got to his 50. He also got dropped.
    Last edited by babajee; 12th November 2017 at 20:20.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    The difference between IPL and PSL quality can be compared by the fact that PSL product Shadab Khan made a remarkable debut and IPL talent Siraj turned out to be a laughing stock...
    IPL product Ashwin is going to end up with 500 Test wickets. However, I agree. The standard of the PSL is so high that the ICC is thinking of awarding it international status. In two years only, it has managed to overtake the IPL. The natural talent in Pakistan is unrivaled.

    Then we wonder why Pakistani fans have the reputation of being the most delusional in the world.

  26. #106
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    Psl has much more local talent but ipl is the better league for now because it has quality foreign players and has been in existance for 10 years. Ipl has barely produced anyone in the last few years especially.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Yes a few dozen times over the years. When the likes of Rahat Ali and Wahab Riaz spearheaded our attack.
    Except for one match, he has single-handedly won India every match against a bowling attack lead by Amir. Kohli is not going to be get sleepless nights because of Amir, Hasan, Rumman, Shadab etc. because of one failure. He is a better batsman than any Pakistani batsman ever, and I think you should pay him a little more respect.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    IPL is fortunate.Ok.Please ask PCB to try and do the same.Why cant pcb do it?
    IPL is fortunate that it can host it's league at a time where no other international cricket is played. Obviously PSL can't be held at the same time as IPL. Any other time of the year international cricket is played.

    Why are you getting so defensive ? It's well known no over international cricket is played in IPL window as players could potentially choose IPL over national team honours .

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    That is because most of the players are busy at that time..PSL does not have a window...use your brain if you have any.
    It is so heartening to see Indian fans get insecure of PSL that is only 3 seasons old
    Lol. Ask pcb to get a window.Who is stopping you?

    Indian fans are least concerned about PSL.Heck it is not even televised in India for 2 seasons.

    The OP is insecure. Comparing PSL with IPL. Then again IPL is the gold standard.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    IPL product Ashwin is going to end up with 500 Test wickets. However, I agree. The standard of the PSL is so high that the ICC is thinking of awarding it international status. In two years only, it has managed to overtake the IPL. The natural talent in Pakistan is unrivaled.

    Then we wonder why Pakistani fans have the reputation of being the most delusional in the world.
    What a rubbish post. The exaggeration levels are phenomenal. When did a Pakistani fan ever say any of that???
    The most delusional fan in the world is you sir.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    IPL is fortunate that it can host it's league at a time where no other international cricket is played. Obviously PSL can't be held at the same time as IPL. Any other time of the year international cricket is played.

    Why are you getting so defensive ? It's well known no over international cricket is played in IPL window as players could potentially choose IPL over national team honours .
    Bhai play PSL during IPL season.Ask players to choose between ipl or psl.As Pakistani fans are saying PSL is better i am sure players will choose psl.

    Why will i be defensive?I didnt open the thread trying to demean one of the best T20 batsman or take potshots at IPL.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Except for one match, he has single-handedly won India every match against a bowling attack lead by Amir. Kohli is not going to be get sleepless nights because of Amir, Hasan, Rumman, Shadab etc. because of one failure. He is a better batsman than any Pakistani batsman ever, and I think you should pay him a little more respect.
    Still in those matches like in 2016 asia cup and world cup there was a letup in the attack: Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Sami etc.

    Amir also got unlucky with a close LBW call in the Asia cup.

    Yes Kohli is a good batsman and I have not denied that. He destroyed us a few times but that was when we were almost minnows.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Psl has much more local talent but ipl is the better league for now because it has quality foreign players and has been in existance for 10 years. Ipl has barely produced anyone in the last few years especially.
    Look up the indian team, most are post 2008 IPL products.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Except for one match, he has single-handedly won India every match against a bowling attack lead by Amir. Kohli is not going to be get sleepless nights because of Amir, Hasan, Rumman, Shadab etc. because of one failure. He is a better batsman than any Pakistani batsman ever, and I think you should pay him a little more respect.
    You say every match like we play every week. He won the Asia cup match because the rest of our bowlers were awful. Same in wt20. In first match in champions trophy he got dropped but fair enough he performed but he failed when it mattered in the final.
    I agree he is the goat odi batsman but I don't know why he is being mentioned here. He isn't a product of ipl he was a talent before ipl came into existence.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    IPL product Ashwin is going to end up with 500 Test wickets. However, I agree. The standard of the PSL is so high that the ICC is thinking of awarding it international status. In two years only, it has managed to overtake the IPL. The natural talent in Pakistan is unrivaled.

    Then we wonder why Pakistani fans have the reputation of being the most delusional in the world.
    Look I would agree to the fact that the Standard of IPL is much better than the PSL. But there are elements of the PSL that make you wonder that it isnt really an easy league. Playing spin on tracks such as Dubai and Abu Dhabi isnt easy by any means. Plus the ball really doesnt come on to the bat as easily on most IPL tracks. The fact of the matter is that Players who created their brand in the best league (IPL) really didnt make a mark exactly the same way in the PSL in which either they are at the ends of their careers or the standard of Bowling, especially spin bowling is much better.

    However, this argument is still weak until we do not see the peak players such as the Smiths, Williamsons and Kohlis putting the bowlers to the sword.


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Lol. Ask pcb to get a window.Who is stopping you?

    Indian fans are least concerned about PSL.Heck it is not even televised in India for 2 seasons.

    The OP is insecure. Comparing PSL with IPL. Then again IPL is the gold standard.
    Yes and most of the viewership online was from india for PSL
    Dektay sab hai lekin bolta koi nahi hai.. :p

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Btw this is pakpassion not indpassion....
    Also we thrashed the same west Indies that beat India thrice the last 3 times they played.
    Also ipl has been in existance for 10 years whereas psl has only been in existance for 2 years. Despite this psl has produced as much talent as IPL. Psl has produced Hasan, babar, shadab, shinwari, hasaan khan, Fakhar, rumman, usama
    Yes it is PakPassion, but it doesn't mean we should wear green-tinted glasses. India has been a much better team than us for over a decade and we should accept that. Also, PSL is no match for the IPL and never will be. It is Mickey Mouse compared to the IPL which is the best T20 league in the world by a country mile. PSL is not even at the level of BBL yet, and even the CPL have a better pool of international players.

    These players have not been produced by the PSL, they have simply used the PSL as a springboard to get into the team earlier than they would have otherwise. No T20 league is going to 'produce' players. IPL doesn't produce players either, but it helps them get noticed fast. The likes of Ashwin who would end up with 500+ Test wickets would have made the Indian team anyway, but performing for CSK in the IPL helped him reach the summit quickly.

    Similarly, Pandya has been fast-tracked because of the IPL. There are plenty of good young Indian batting talent in the IPL, but the selectors have had a hard time getting disposing deadweight seniors.

    India lost to West Indies due to a brilliant individual performance by Ewin Lewis. Individual brilliance can happen any time anywhere. For example, the bowling attack that won us the CT could not defend 310 against West Indies in an ODI thanks to a brilliant innings by Jason Mohammed.

    Secondly, the team that won West Indies two World T20s is different to the one that they play now. That team beat us in three successive ICC tournaments, and destroyed Ajmal in the 2014 World T20 when he was at the peak of his chucking powers.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Look up the indian team, most are post 2008 IPL products.
    Nope..most are U19 products except Ashwin

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Still in those matches like in 2016 asia cup and world cup there was a letup in the attack: Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Sami etc.

    Amir also got unlucky with a close LBW call in the Asia cup.

    Yes Kohli is a good batsman and I have not denied that. He destroyed us a few times but that was when we were almost minnows.
    Yes Kohli will be a walking wicket against our current bowling attack that puts the WI attack of the 80's and the Australian attack of 2000's to shame.

    If he wants to ensure that he breaks all batting records, he should avoid playing Pakistan. Unfortunately, the reality is different. We are still a mediocre team and he will continue to do well against us in the future.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    Yes and most of the viewership online was from india for PSL
    Dektay sab hai lekin bolta koi nahi hai.. :p
    Claim by a website that streams psl.
    Nice try.

    Koi dekhta to koi bada channel dikhata.

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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    You say every match like we play every week. He won the Asia cup match because the rest of our bowlers were awful. Same in wt20. In first match in champions trophy he got dropped but fair enough he performed but he failed when it mattered in the final.
    I agree he is the goat odi batsman but I don't know why he is being mentioned here. He isn't a product of ipl he was a talent before ipl came into existence.
    No player is a product of the IPL or any T20 league, but it helps players get fast-tracked and also improve quickly. Kohli has been playing with world class players in the IPL since the age of 19, which has definitely improved him as a player.

    Before PSL became a reality, Pakistani fans were dismissive of the impact of T20 leagues because of sour grapes, but now they are the first ones to credit the PSL for the success of the team. If Pakistan produces a player half as good as Kohli in the PSL era, people are going to use it to prove how great the quality of PSL is.

    We don't play India every week but he has made the difference time and time again against Pakistan in high pressure games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes Kohli will be a walking wicket against our current bowling attack that puts the WI attack of the 80's and the Australian attack of 2000's to shame.

    If he wants to ensure that he breaks all batting records, he should avoid playing Pakistan. Unfortunately, the reality is different. We are still a mediocre team and he will continue to do well against us in the future.
    And you claim Pakistani fans are "delusional". U think we are mediocre😂😂. Only mediocre teams can win the champions trophy.
    Oops I forgot it was a fluke😂
    Have a good day mate.

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    Nope..most are U19 products except Ashwin
    So PSL players never played U 19 or domestics and just parachuted into the PSL one fine morning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No player is a product of the IPL or any T20 league, but it helps players get fast-tracked and also improve quickly. Kohli has been playing with world class players in the IPL since the age of 19, which has definitely improved him as a player.

    Before PSL became a reality, Pakistani fans were dismissive of the impact of T20 leagues because of sour grapes, but now they are the first ones to credit the PSL for the success of the team. If Pakistan produces a player half as good as Kohli in the PSL era, people are going to use it to prove how great the quality of PSL is.

    We don't play India every week but he has made the difference time and time again against Pakistan in high pressure games.
    Okay. We have produced a play half as good as kohli in babar azam btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Okay. We have produced a play half as good as kohli in babar azam btw.
    He is not a product of the post PSL era. In fact he barely played in the first PSL, and was already established in the team before PSL 2.

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes Kohli will be a walking wicket against our current bowling attack that puts the WI attack of the 80's and the Australian attack of 2000's to shame.

    If he wants to ensure that he breaks all batting records, he should avoid playing Pakistan. Unfortunately, the reality is different. We are still a mediocre team and he will continue to do well against us in the future.
    Okay nowhere did I suggest that Kohli will be a walking wicket or that our current bowling attack at the moment is the GOAT.

    All I am saying is that Kohli will not find it as easy to “destroy” our current bowling attack containing Amir, Hasan and Shadab.

    Strange to claim our team is mediocre...

    World class batsmen in Babar Azam and Haris Sohail.
    3 world class bowlers in Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan.
    Promising hard hitting all rounder in Faheem Ashraf.

    The only mediocre players are Imad and Hafeez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is not a product of the post PSL era. In fact he barely played in the first PSL, and was already established in the team before PSL 2.
    Could argue the same with kohli aswell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Okay nowhere did I suggest that Kohli will be a walking wicket or that our current bowling attack at the moment is the GOAT.

    All I am saying is that Kohli will not find it as easy to “destroy” our current bowling attack containing Amir, Hasan and Shadab.

    Strange to claim our team is mediocre...

    World class batsmen in Babar Azam and Haris Sohail.
    3 world class bowlers in Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan.
    Promising hard hitting all rounder in Faheem Ashraf.

    The only mediocre players are Imad and Hafeez.
    Thisss
    Brilliant post.

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Okay nowhere did I suggest that Kohli will be a walking wicket or that our current bowling attack at the moment is the GOAT.

    All I am saying is that Kohli will not find it as easy to “destroy” our current bowling attack containing Amir, Hasan and Shadab.

    Strange to claim our team is mediocre...

    World class batsmen in Babar Azam and Haris Sohail.
    3 world class bowlers in Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan.
    Promising hard hitting all rounder in Faheem Ashraf.

    The only mediocre players are Imad and Hafeez.
    Amir doesn't have world class consistency, and Haris is promising but it is laughable to call him world class. He is not remotely close to that level yet, considering how little he has played. I think he is very good, but he has a long way to go before he can be considered world class. This is the type of overrating that doesn't help.

    Shadab is not world class yet either.

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Could argue the same with kohli aswell.
    Yes, and that is why I said that Kohli is not an IPL product. If you go back to my posts you will understand the point I am making.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Thisss
    Brilliant post.
    Yes, Haris is a 'world class' batsman already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Amir doesn't have world class consistency, and Haris is promising but it is laughable to call him world class. He is not remotely close to that level yet, considering how little he has played. I think he is very good, but he has a long way to go before he can be considered world class. This is the type of overrating that doesn't help.

    Shadab is not world class yet either.
    Amir is as world class as anyone can be.
    Shadab has been picked by multiple franchises which shows that he is world class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, Haris is a 'world class' batsman already.
    Okay I didn't read that point properly but haris is a future star.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Amir doesn't have world class consistency, and Haris is promising but it is laughable to call him world class. He is not remotely close to that level yet, considering how little he has played. I think he is very good, but he has a long way to go before he can be considered world class. This is the type of overrating that doesn't help.

    Shadab is not world class yet either.
    King Kohli said he considers Amir to be one of the top 3 bowlers in the world. Should value his opinion as he’s the GOAT.

    Yes Haris has not played much. However his talent is world class and it is just a matter of him being fit and playing games.

    Shadab would walk into every ODI team as a leg spinner, yes even India. He brings the complete package.

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Amir is as world class as anyone can be.
    Shadab has been picked by multiple franchises which shows that he is world class.
    Getting picked for multiple franchises doesn't mean you are world class. If that is the case, Tanvir and Arafat are ATGs.

    Shadab is one of the most promising young spinners in the world, but he needs to keep it up for a few years to be considered world class. He has world class potential, but he is not a world class performer yet.

    Amir is world class on his day, but those days are not common. No player can be deemed world class if they perform once in 5 games only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    King Kohli said he considers Amir to be one of the top 3 bowlers in the world. Should value his opinion as he’s the GOAT.

    Yes Haris has not played much. However his talent is world class and it is just a matter of him being fit and playing games.

    Shadab would walk into every ODI team as a leg spinner, yes even India. He brings the complete package.
    India would dream of having shadab. Atm they are stuck with chahal who can't bat and is inferior to shadab with the ball. No comparison in fielding as shadab is a would class fielder.

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, Haris is a 'world class' batsman already.
    Haris is as world class as you say Pandya is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    King Kohli said he considers Amir to be one of the top 3 bowlers in the world. Should value his opinion as he’s the GOAT.

    Yes Haris has not played much. However his talent is world class and it is just a matter of him being fit and playing games.

    Shadab would walk into every ODI team as a leg spinner, yes even India. He brings the complete package.
    World class talent/potential is not equal to world class performance. A player is world class only when he performs to a world class level consistently.

    Kohli has great respect for Amir, and he has troubled him. However, there is more to cricket than Kohli, and simply troubling a batsman whom he is only going to face once a year is not enough. Amir needs to bring his A game more often against a variety of teams to be considered a world class performer.

    He is certainly one on his day, but he has simply not been consistent. So far, he has been a good LOI bowler who is great on his day, and a rubbish Test bowler.

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    King Kohli said he considers Amir to be one of the top 3 bowlers in the world. Should value his opinion as he’s the GOAT.

    Yes Haris has not played much. However his talent is world class and it is just a matter of him being fit and playing games.

    Shadab would walk into every ODI team as a leg spinner, yes even India. He brings the complete package.
    Apart from SA, who have Tahir

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Getting picked for multiple franchises doesn't mean you are world class. If that is the case, Tanvir and Arafat are ATGs.

    Shadab is one of the most promising young spinners in the world, but he needs to keep it up for a few years to be considered world class. He has world class potential, but he is not a world class performer yet.

    Amir is world class on his day, but those days are not common. No player can be deemed world class if they perform once in 5 games only.
    By your logic rohit isn't world class either as he performs once every few games aswell. Even kohli doesn't perform in every game. Name me a left arm fast bowler in the current era who is better in odis.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Haris is as world class as you say Pandya is.
    I never said that Pandya is world class already. He has world class potential, and so does Haris. However, time is running out fast for Haris because he is at an age where he should be at his peak. On the other hand, Pandya still has a decade to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    World class talent/potential is not equal to world class performance. A player is world class only when he performs to a world class level consistently.

    Kohli has great respect for Amir, and he has troubled him. However, there is more to cricket than Kohli, and simply troubling a batsman whom he is only going to face once a year is not enough. Amir needs to bring his A game more often against a variety of teams to be considered a world class performer.

    He is certainly one on his day, but he has simply not been consistent. So far, he has been a good LOI bowler who is great on his day, and a rubbish Test bowler.
    True, however having many world class potential players shows we aren’t mediocre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    World class talent/potential is not equal to world class performance. A player is world class only when he performs to a world class level consistently.

    Kohli has great respect for Amir, and he has troubled him. However, there is more to cricket than Kohli, and simply troubling a batsman whom he is only going to face once a year is not enough. Amir needs to bring his A game more often against a variety of teams to be considered a world class performer.

    He is certainly one on his day, but he has simply not been consistent. So far, he has been a good LOI bowler who is great on his day, and a rubbish Test bowler.
    1 minute you say we are mediocre next we have world class potential but not world class.
    So for you world class potential=mediocre?

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Apart from SA, who have Tahir
    Walking to every team doesn't make a player world class, especially if there is not even competition for that position. There aren't many high quality leg-spinners around. Tahir is undoubtedly the best, but the younger ones like Shadab, Rashid Sodhi, Zampa and Crane at a a similar level and we will see in 5-6 years who is the best of the lot.

    Shadab is the best overall package because of his batting and overall energy in the field as well as his age, but in terms of bowling, Rashid is the best of the younger lot. Unfortunately, he plays for Afghanistan so he will always be underrated.

    Shadab has world class potential, but you don't become a world class player based on a few good months.

  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    By your logic rohit isn't world class either as he performs once every few games aswell. Even kohli doesn't perform in every game. Name me a left arm fast bowler in the current era who is better in odis.
    Rohit is a world class player because he has performed consistently for a number of years, and he has reached heights that no other batsman has. Amir doesn't even have a 5-fer in ODIs.

    I can't believe you are asking this question. Starc is the best left-arm pacer of this era by a mile, and Boult is second to him. Amir has lot to do before he catches up to them, if ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Walking to every team doesn't make a player world class, especially if there is not even competition for that position. There aren't many high quality leg-spinners around. Tahir is undoubtedly the best, but the younger ones like Shadab, Rashid Sodhi, Zampa and Crane at a a similar level and we will see in 5-6 years who is the best of the lot.

    Shadab is the best overall package because of his batting and overall energy in the field as well as his age, but in terms of bowling, Rashid is the best of the younger lot. Unfortunately, he plays for Afghanistan so he will always be underrated.

    Shadab has world class potential, but you don't become a world class player based on a few good months.
    The first line cracked me up. What is world class if that is the case? He can get into every team in the world but isn't world class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Walking to every team doesn't make a player world class, especially if there is not even competition for that position. There aren't many high quality leg-spinners around. Tahir is undoubtedly the best, but the younger ones like Shadab, Rashid Sodhi, Zampa and Crane at a a similar level and we will see in 5-6 years who is the best of the lot.

    Shadab is the best overall package because of his batting and overall energy in the field as well as his age, but in terms of bowling, Rashid is the best of the younger lot. Unfortunately, he plays for Afghanistan so he will always be underrated.

    Shadab has world class potential, but you don't become a world class player based on a few good months.
    There is loads of competition for leg spinners. Leg spinners are a must in odis

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    The first line cracked me up. What is world class if that is the case? He can get into every team in the world but isn't world class.
    World class means performing at a world class level for a considerable time period. Walking into teams etc. is a function of many variables such as competition, team composition etc.

    For example, Babar is definitely a world class ODI batsman, but he won't walk into many top teams because they already have many batsmen for his role, i.e. an accumulator who holds the innings together. He won't add much value to teams like India, SA, England, Australia and NZ because he won't bring to the team something that they lack. They already have batsmen who can hold the innings together and bat for long.

    On the contrary, Shadab is a different type of player. I think most teams could do with a young leg-spin all-rounder who is also electric in the field. There aren't many players like him around these days, but he will have to perform for a couple of years at least to be considered a world class player.

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    There is loads of competition for leg spinners. Leg spinners are a must in odis
    There are a must but there isn't much competition. Tahir has been the sole flag-bearer for years, but yes a few good young ones have emerged.

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    1 minute you say we are mediocre next we have world class potential but not world class.
    So for you world class potential=mediocre?
    2-3 players with world class potential doesn't override the overall mediocrity. Our main issue is batting, which is still rubbish. We don't have a single batsman who gets into any of the top sides including Babar, as I explained in my previous post.

    Our batting makes us a mediocre team, and the overall bowling attack isn't great, it is simply riding on the coattails one of a couple of performers who are going through a purple patch.

  71. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    2-3 players with world class potential doesn't override the overall mediocrity. Our main issue is batting, which is still rubbish. We don't have a single batsman who gets into any of the top sides including Babar, as I explained in my previous post.

    Our batting makes us a mediocre team, and the overall bowling attack isn't great, it is simply riding on the coattails one of a couple of performers who are going through a purple patch.
    It’s just Hafeez and Imad who are mediocre players.

    We are just a few players away from being a top ODI side:

    Fakhar
    Opener
    Babar
    Haris
    Sarfraz
    Malik
    Faheem
    Shadab
    Hasan
    Amir
    3rd Pacer

    Name one way this team is mediocre if the two slots are filled with adequate players.

    The only “passenger” we are carrying is Sarfraz, but he makes the team by his captaincy anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    World class means performing at a world class level for a considerable time period. Walking into teams etc. is a function of many variables such as competition, team composition etc.

    For example, Babar is definitely a world class ODI batsman, but he won't walk into many top teams because they already have many batsmen for his role, i.e. an accumulator who holds the innings together. He won't add much value to teams like India, SA, England, Australia and NZ because he won't bring to the team something that they lack. They already have batsmen who can hold the innings together and bat for long.

    On the contrary, Shadab is a different type of player. I think most teams could do with a young leg-spin all-rounder who is also electric in the field. There aren't many players like him around these days, but he will have to perform for a couple of years at least to be considered a world class player.
    Hasan Ali has been in Pakistan colours for just over a year but surely he is world class level? He's been excellent from start and gets better and better. CT was man of the tournament.

    Surely can't be any less than world class?

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    I never really watch or follow the IPL so I have no idea how Gayle performs there. But he does not seem to perform in any of the more interesting T20 leagues such as the CPL, PSL or Big Bash.

    I wonder to what extent Gayle's exclusion from the PSL so far has to do with his womanising, sexist behaviour. After all, sponsors will be well aware that the PSL is meant to attract largely Muslim audiences (not that his behaviour should ever be tolerated in any less conservative religion).

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    It’s just Hafeez and Imad who are mediocre players.

    We are just a few players away from being a top ODI side:

    Fakhar
    Opener
    Babar
    Haris
    Sarfraz
    Malik
    Faheem
    Shadab
    Hasan
    Amir
    3rd Pacer

    Name one way this team is mediocre if the two slots are filled with adequate players.

    The only “passenger” we are carrying is Sarfraz, but he makes the team by his captaincy anyway
    Sarfaraz is pretty good if he bats up the order

    Malik is still a liability overseas...he should be replaced by Talat/Saad Ali who can play for atleast 10 years
    This side has the potential to be the best ever Pak ODI side!
    Oh yes Imam is pretty good too and is a long term solution but he faces a strong challenge from Sami Aslam and Farhan..

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    So PSL players never played U 19 or domestics and just parachuted into the PSL one fine morning?
    Nope many players did not even make their FC debuts at that time...
    IPL can boast flop players like Aaron,Abdullah Iqbal etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There are a must but there isn't much competition. Tahir has been the sole flag-bearer for years, but yes a few good young ones have emerged.
    Adil Rashid is good
    Adam zampa is good
    Imran tahir is good
    Davendra bishoo is decent
    Vandersay/prasana are decent
    Mason crane us decent
    Ish sohdi is good
    All these leg spinners are good for their country but shadab is the 2nd best of them all which shows he is world class as he is better than most of the leg spinners in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    2-3 players with world class potential doesn't override the overall mediocrity. Our main issue is batting, which is still rubbish. We don't have a single batsman who gets into any of the top sides including Babar, as I explained in my previous post.

    Our batting makes us a mediocre team, and the overall bowling attack isn't great, it is simply riding on the coattails one of a couple of performers who are going through a purple patch.
    Players with world class potential
    Fakhar zaman
    Babar azam (possibly already world class)
    Haris sohail
    Shadab Khan
    Rumman Raees
    Mohammad Amir (imo already world class but some might disagree)
    Faheem Ashraf
    Hasan Ali (hes surely already even world class)
    That's 8 names out of 11
    The other 3 are sarfraz who is a good captain, Malik who is a handy middle order batsman and hafeez/imad who are handy spinning all rounders.
    No where near a mediocre team. I'm not saying we are better than India but surely we are in the top 4 teams of the world. Only England, India and Australia look slightly better than us in odis.

  78. #158
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    This thread has gone into the second page already, just because someone he has a problem with everything related with Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    It’s just Hafeez and Imad who are mediocre players.

    We are just a few players away from being a top ODI side:

    Fakhar
    Opener
    Babar
    Haris
    Sarfraz
    Malik
    Faheem
    Shadab
    Hasan
    Amir
    3rd Pacer

    Name one way this team is mediocre if the two slots are filled with adequate players.

    The only “passenger” we are carrying is Sarfraz, but he makes the team by his captaincy anyway
    Sarfraz isn't even that bad. He just needs to bat higher up. When he batted at 5 he got a hundred at lords and a match winning 90 at Cardiff. I would rather him bat at 5 and Malik at 6.

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    Gayle is built for that stadium in Bangalore. Sixes galore.

    The UAE doesn't offer such tracks and he ends up struggling.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

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