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  1. #161
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    @Mamoon
    World class means as good as anyone in the world. If the world isn't producing good leg spinners and shadab happens to be the best then he is world class regardless of how bad other leg spinners are as he is the best in the WORLD which is what world class means. I'm not saying he is the best in simply giving an example. U seem to be mixed up with world class and atg. An atg is someone that has to have consistently performed over a long period of time that many are not able to do. For example kohli is an atg or in fact the goat.

  2. #162
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    PSL has more quality bowlers because local Pakistani bowlers are better than local Indian bowers, thus Gayle cannot destroy sides like he once did in IPL, this is why I love PSL, nice balance between bat and ball.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  3. #163
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    Gayle finished as the 3rd highest run scorer in the 2017 CPL on pitches worse then the ones in PSL.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    he is past it and not worth the baggage by all accounts
    What baggage?

    He is an ATG in the t20 format and our young players could not learn a lot from him with regards to power hitting

  5. #165
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    Glad to see Gayle not picked up any PSL team. Shows they are actually thinking while choosing players.

    I would prefer to see local talent getting a game instead of watching a washed up T20 batsman like Gayle.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Since the advent of the IPL, India has won the World Cup, the Champions Trophy, made it to a World T20 final, an has occupied the number one ranking in ODIs for a considerable period. They have also produced a Limited Overs GOAT batsman in the making.

    If Pakistan achieves 75% of that in the post PSL era, how much credit do you think PSL will get?

    Hence, let's not walk that path. Besides, our 'number one' ranking in T20s is based on bashing West Indies a few thousand times, and it looks like we are not done with it yet. Now we are going to take that bashing to the U.S. it seems.

    India is a better T20 team than Pakistan by quite some distance. If we were to play 10 T20s now, they would probably end up winning 7. Their bowling is very good and their batting is 10x better than ours.
    India winning World Cup had nothing to do with IPL. Let's not get carried away. That was a star studded Indian team and majority of the players were stars even when there was no T20 cricket.

  7. #167
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    He was a legend,but his team RCB has never won an IPL,right now he is very similar to what Kobe was doing in LA Lakers in last or Jordan moving around in Wizards nothing more.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    What baggage?

    He is an ATG in the t20 format and our young players could not learn a lot from him with regards to power hitting

    People can be great at what they do and be jerks as well (younis), by most accounts Gayle isn’t far off that and now that he isn’t performing as he once used to, he isn’t worth it


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by aniket1911 View Post
    That's very simplistic way of looking at things.

    1. PSL had only 5 team till now meaning better concentration of good bowlers and yet there were anwar ali and wahab riaz as mainstays in the teams which is quite telling.

    2. Last time when IPL happened in UAE the scores were low as well and many batsman were not able to hit it out of the park but don't see anyone insinuating that bowling pool is best in the world.


    Let these same bowlers in PSL ball to international stalwarts like Kohli, smith, warner and co on Indian pitches and then I will have no qualms in accepting that Pakistani bowling pool is best in the world because as I said earlier Pakistani bowling was massacred last time they toured India.

    Last time Pak toured Ind Junaid Khan rattled indian batting line up in 2012.
    Hassan Ali and Shadab Khan are from PSL and they got the top batsmen of the world out. What are tou trying to say here?

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Lol. Ask pcb to get a window.Who is stopping you?

    Indian fans are least concerned about PSL.Heck it is not even televised in India for 2 seasons.

    The OP is insecure. Comparing PSL with IPL. Then again IPL is the gold standard.
    If every league starts getting its window there will be no international cricket possible. Its the wrong trend being set by ICC

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    People can be great at what they do and be jerks as well (younis), by most accounts Gayle isn’t far off that and now that he isn’t performing as he once used to, he isn’t worth it
    What has Gayle done?

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    If every league starts getting its window there will be no international cricket possible. Its the wrong trend being set by ICC
    It will not happen.

    The SL, SAF, WI, Natwest and even Big Bash leagues will never be enough of a revenue generator for the iCC to consider it or to give them their own windows.

    Maybe the BBL if it grows in the future.

    For now - only the IPL and PSL deserve to have their own window.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is not a single player in the world who would prefer to play in the PSL at the expense of the IPL, and the tragedy is that even Pakistani players would most probably prefer to play in the IPL over the PSL.
    Sadly I have to say you are spot on.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Since the advent of the IPL, India has won the World Cup, the Champions Trophy, made it to a World T20 final, an has occupied the number one ranking in ODIs for a considerable period. They have also produced a Limited Overs GOAT batsman in the making.

    If Pakistan achieves 75% of that in the post PSL era, how much credit do you think PSL will get?

    Hence, let's not walk that path. Besides, our 'number one' ranking in T20s is based on bashing West Indies a few thousand times, and it looks like we are not done with it yet. Now we are going to take that bashing to the U.S. it seems.

    India is a better T20 team than Pakistan by quite some distance. If we were to play 10 T20s now, they would probably end up winning 7. Their bowling is very good and their batting is 10x better than ours.
    I agreed with you up until this point but not here.

    The IPL has absolutely nothing to do with their WC, CT and no. 1 ranking in ODI's. Sachin, Gambhir, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dhoni Dravid, Dhawan and even Rohit Sharma all established themselves well before IPL. It could be argued IPL helped push start the careers of Jadeja and Ashwin but that is about it. Kohli's development came at the Ranjhi and domestic level and he further refined himself at the U19 level. Maybe IPL helped his confidence and deal with pressure but that is about it.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    What has Gayle done?
    questions of attitude, commitment , and unprofessionalism

    staff at both Lahore and Karachi were annoyed at him, and its something that has followed him through out his career. Just hard to ignore when he isnt smashing the runs


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    questions of attitude, commitment , and unprofessionalism

    staff at both Lahore and Karachi were annoyed at him, and its something that has followed him through out his career. Just hard to ignore when he isnt smashing the runs
    Hmm I did not know he had attitude problems

    Knew he had a falling out with the WI board but that is no longer news anyway.

    Heard he has back problems so refuses to play Tests and even ODI's - did not know there was anymore to that.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is not going to be picked in the IPL from now on either. He is past his prime and was a liability for RCB last season. It is a shame that PSL didn't exist during his prime years.

    A poor title though. It gives the impression that Gayle is good enough for the IPL but not good enough for the PSL, which is a pointless, jingoistic statement devoid of any ground realities.

    The standard and the pool of players in the IPL is 10x better than the PSL, and any player who is good enough for the IPL is obviously going to be good enough for the PSL. However, the reverse is not true. There are plenty of players in the PSL who are not going to get picked for the IPL.
    This perception that IPL is so much better than other leagues, is as lopsided as you are claiming the OP is when comparing today's Gayle with 10 years younger one... The real attraction for these leagues, specially IPL is money for players, in that regard IPL is obviously better, but lets be clear, its not an NBA of Cricket, far from it...

    All these leagues have inferior quality even in T20 compare to international cricket. T20 itself is Mcdonald of Cricket, popular in numbers but junk in quality. The only reason, I care about PSL is that we can unearth fast bowlers, who otherwise will not get a chance at national stage and maybe Tulas like Fakhir, those guys are needed in national LOI team...

    Quality of international players is not so much different in IPL, last year Ben Strokes was highest paid international player, he is a good allrounder, but non of his skills are exceptional. He is no Sobers, IK or Kallis, far from it...Last year Strac did not play IPL either, best bowler in the world. They have AB and Warner, but that's about it...AB, Kohli, Gayle with all their powerous have yet to win IPL in 10 tries...In IPL guys like Maxwell and Gayle shine who are found out pretty quickly at international level...

    I am not so sure local batting quality is huge either, most of the power positions in IPL are outsourced to WI/SA/AUS/NZ players, how many power hitters India has produced in last 10 years? - Rohit Sharma is still their biggest six hitter, which has nothing to do with IPL...We thought one thing these leagues are going to produce are power hitters, so far we have not seen great supply from any league, despite extra ordinary amount of money... In AUS things are going worse, they are producing horrible batsmen in last few years, all signs are this trend will continue...

    If IPL grows in future it will follow model of American sports, where sports follow the talent and not necessary feed teams based on majority race. When American sports are opened to African American, landscape changed dramatically, within 3/4 decades, even in base ball Latin America is quite dominating... If IPL wants to be the best show in the town, they need to diversify both format(go beyond T20, fast food has little shelf life) and recruit players from other countries like Yankees, who go to hostile countries like Cuba(best pitchers still come from Cuba) and Venezuela to get the best talent not to mention the gettos of big cities, to get sharp kids...

    India as a team is better than us, that is still debatable upon which format and condition we are talking about...Despite having so much money spend, playing top teams all the time, they are still marginally better than their past, they still have one really good batsman(which they had 20 years ago as well),they still struggles to produce high quality fast bowlers, they find it hard to win abroad, locally they win by spin which they have been doing since 70s, they have not added any dimension to their game yet, they are no where near WIs of 80s or AUSes of 2000s, who dominated the world, again far from it...


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    PSL has more quality bowlers because local Pakistani bowlers are better than local Indian bowers, thus Gayle cannot destroy sides like he once did in IPL, this is why I love PSL, nice balance between bat and ball.
    He is finished even in IPL, he would have scored 300 if he played in PSL 5-6 years back against the mighty local Pakistani bowlers on turning deserts in Sharjah! And also please note that some of the top bowlers of world (apart from Indian trundlers) do play in IPL and the matches are competitive...

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    PSL has more quality bowlers because local Pakistani bowlers are better than local Indian bowers, thus Gayle cannot destroy sides like he once did in IPL, this is why I love PSL, nice balance between bat and ball.
    He is finished even in IPL, he would have scored 300 if he played in PSL 5-6 years back against the mighty local Pakistani bowlers on turning deserts in Sharjah! And also please note that some of the top bowlers of world (apart from Indian trundlers) do play in IPL and the matches are competitive...

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Glad to see Gayle not picked up any PSL team. Shows they are actually thinking while choosing players.

    I would prefer to see local talent getting a game instead of watching a washed up T20 batsman like Gayle.
    Probably PSL cannot afford him at the same time when his form has gone down! Do not want to risk spending....

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    If every league starts getting its window there will be no international cricket possible. Its the wrong trend being set by ICC
    ICC doesnot decide the international calendar.Matches are played in bilateral series with the consent of the boards involved.

    Aus NZ SA season finishes by April due to winter.India doesnot play because of obvious reasons.

    Teams do tour and play in May in England right in the middle of IPL.

    PCB is free to organise PSL during April May as well.No one is stopping them.

    So dont know what you are whining about.

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    It will not happen.

    The SL, SAF, WI, Natwest and even Big Bash leagues will never be enough of a revenue generator for the iCC to consider it or to give them their own windows.

    Maybe the BBL if it grows in the future.

    For now - only the IPL and PSL deserve to have their own window.

    IPL doesnt give a dime to ICC.And BBL generates far more revenue than PSL.No league pays the ICC any money lol

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Since the advent of the IPL, India has won the World Cup, the Champions Trophy, made it to a World T20 final, an has occupied the number one ranking in ODIs for a considerable period. They have also produced a Limited Overs GOAT batsman in the making.

    If Pakistan achieves 75% of that in the post PSL era, how much credit do you think PSL will get?

    Hence, let's not walk that path. Besides, our 'number one' ranking in T20s is based on bashing West Indies a few thousand times, and it looks like we are not done with it yet. Now we are going to take that bashing to the U.S. it seems.

    India is a better T20 team than Pakistan by quite some distance. If we were to play 10 T20s now, they would probably end up winning 7. Their bowling is very good and their batting is 10x better than ours.
    Never understood this blatant degradation of Pakistan's achievement time and time again. First they degraded Pakistan's achievement of the number 1 Test team and now its the turn of the T20 ranking.

    Yes we have bashed West Indies but the West Indian T20 team is one of the best in the world. They have won 2 World Cups in that format. They are not cannon fodder. If we have bashed them, it reflects on our superior level. In fact the irony of this bashing is that if we were to be given 5 of West Indies players, these people will be the first to induct them in our team. But somehow beating WI is unworthy of cricket teams.

    India is a strong T20 team, yes but the fact is Pakistan is number 1 right now and they are not. They might as well become the number 1 team because they are indeed that good enough. And to suggest that India will beat 7 times out of 10 is based on nothing but admiration of their skills. Yes their skills are superior and I love watching Indian batsmen but to suggest that we will lose 70% of the matches is nothing but a hypothesis. As they say in Private Equity, "past performance is no indicator of future performance." This applies equally to India as it does to Pakistan.

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    ICC doesnot decide the international calendar.Matches are played in bilateral series with the consent of the boards involved.

    Aus NZ SA season finishes by April due to winter.India doesnot play because of obvious reasons.

    Teams do tour and play in May in England right in the middle of IPL.

    PCB is free to organise PSL during April May as well.No one is stopping them.

    So dont know what you are whining about.
    I am not saying that ICC gives them the wondow but IPL gets a separate window one reason or another as most players insist and boards agree but its not fair to have this un official understanding for just one league. Cricket should go on internationally like any other part of the year.

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I am not saying that ICC gives them the wondow but IPL gets a separate window one reason or another as most players insist and boards agree but its not fair to have this un official understanding for just one league. Cricket should go on internationally like any other part of the year.
    Who decides if its fair or unfair?As i said PCB and PSL can try do the same.

  26. #186
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    T20 leagues will both popularize,revitalize and eventually destroy the game.

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamLakhan View Post
    Probably PSL cannot afford him at the same time when his form has gone down! Do not want to risk spending....
    It is not about affordability but rather getting the value for the money spent. Good to see teams treading on the cautious side rather than spending recklessly to get big ticket names that are past their prime.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  28. #188
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    Too much bickering in this thread. this is about Chris Gayle not being chosen for the PSL, I was very surprised that he wasnt but im glad that he isnt playing, just because IPL want him doesnt mean to say that we have to.

    It should be a good kick up the back side for him that he isnt needed, not anymore. There are plenty of big names i like in this years addition which I think is going to be even better thanks to the addition of another team.

    And remeber IPL has been round far longer so lets not compare, PSL has managed to make a name for itself in its very short time and stands on its own legs.

  29. #189
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    One thing i must say is that india hasn't found any exciting talent in last 2 editions of ipl.Pandya(ipl 2015) was probably last ipl superstar who has done well for india.

  30. #190
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    Wow some of the posts on this thread makes me feel like I entered some alternative dimension or I am in a state of altered reality.

    PSL is of higher quality than the IPL????

    Let me put it this way My local gully cricket tournament during navaratri festival has some real closely competed and high intensity games.

    At the same time Say an England vs Australia or an India vs South Africa might be heavily one sided once in a while.

    That doesn’t mean the Navaratri cricket tournament is of higher cricketing quality than an international game.

    I really and trust me genuinely take my hat off for PCB for organizing the PSL successfully against a lot of odds. Even bringing the PSL final to Pakistan was commendable but the fact that the type of players that participated in it shows PSL is leagues behind in quality. Right now Pakistani fans may not take it well but PSL is in the same boat as the BPL or May be a level above given Pakistani domestic players I thinimk are a little better than the Bangladeshi ones but they still have a lot of catching up to do with even CPl or BBL leave alone IPL.

    I understand that finally getting your own league is a matter of great pride and you guys are pumped up but some reality guys!!!

  31. #191
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    So reading the OP and some of the posts looks like Gayle is the benchmark...ok let us see

    Darren Sammy- was a bench warmer last IPL season.Didnt get a game leave alone being a captain or a regular.

    Kevin Pietersen-was a commentator

    Shane Watson- was benched after some
    mediocre performances

    Puts things in perspective doesn’t it?

  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    It is not about affordability but rather getting the value for the money spent. Good to see teams treading on the cautious side rather than spending recklessly to get big ticket names that are past their prime.
    But Chris Gayle will be part of IPL until he is totally worn out. He will be there for box office reasons in some matches. (Even if he is dropped from RCB he may still reappear in lesser-famed teams with different setup and may last for few more years! In fact he was not effective in earlier IPL editions with KKR team, RCB even though haven't yet won the title so far actually took best out of him personally than any other club or even his national side!) Whereas leagues like PSL should obviously spend money judicially, probably the other reason could be that they can't keep too many players in the reserves/bench, otherwise Gayle has to be there in any premier league with wider scope as there aren't that many devastating players at international level! So they will rather look out for an alternate player who is available for lesser price value and more returns/performance!

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    So reading the OP and some of the posts looks like Gayle is the benchmark...ok let us see

    Darren Sammy- was a bench warmer last IPL season.Didnt get a game leave alone being a captain or a regular.

    Kevin Pietersen-was a commentator

    Shane Watson- was benched after some
    mediocre performances

    Puts things in perspective doesn’t it?
    More so if IPL games become high intensity/competitive/close games then conspiracy theories will pop up that they are all fixed/staged! How about that! Strategic time out I saw once in PP that it is related to "fixing few things" during those minutes (I agree even some restless Indians feel the same way looking at IPL's success), but any sane guy will simply understand that strategic timeout is more about accommodating hell lot of Ads in Television and also probably sellout of snacks & drinks to the audience in stadium! Thats how I look at it (of course there can be some odd incidents like Sreeshanth, but that's about it...)

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Last time Pak toured Ind Junaid Khan rattled indian batting line up in 2012.
    Hassan Ali and Shadab Khan are from PSL and they got the top batsmen of the world out. What are tou trying to say here?
    Why are you going in tagent here?

    * Point: Pakistani bowling pool is better than India because they apparently dismiss teams on low score on UAE pitches in PSL.

    * counter-point: When last time IPL happened in UAE indian bowlers shined there and scores were generally low. Also, Pakistani bowling was nothing to write about when they last played in India against various opponents i.e. the insinuation being that any average bowler will find success on those sluggish pitches of UAE.

    * Conclusion: Even if we discount for international level bowlers like rabada, steyn, southee, Cummins, boult, morkel etc (which to be honest will the kill the whole debate of which league has better bowling ) IPL has comparable if not better bowling pool.

    Now your point?

  35. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    IPL doesnt give a dime to ICC.And BBL generates far more revenue than PSL.No league pays the ICC any money lol
    I meant revenue generator for their own board - which may cause the board to negotiate with the ICC to have its own window.

    Also can you provide a source that says BBL makes more money than PSL?

  36. #196
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    I think people are over complicating things, Gayle was never good on slow and low wickets but Indian pitches suit him in the IPL... And in my opinion that is the biggest factor why he hasnt done well in the PSL where wickets hasnt been good for T20 cricket.

    Regarding which league is better I dont think you can make a comparison. I think these leagues are mostly about entertainment and producing young talent. No doubt PSL has produced some good players for Pakistan but I think same happened in the IPL when it first started where the likes of Rohit and Kholis really came to light. Producing long term international class players are much harder.. so we will have to wait and see.

    Overall I think its the entertainment factor which decided which league is better.. yes you can say we have this player and we have this but having one or two extra players wont make the league that much better.

    If I have to pick a league at the moment I would go for IPL as its slightly more entertaining with few more top quality players and packed grounds.

  37. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    India winning World Cup had nothing to do with IPL. Let's not get carried away. That was a star studded Indian team and majority of the players were stars even when there was no T20 cricket.
    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    I agreed with you up until this point but not here.

    The IPL has absolutely nothing to do with their WC, CT and no. 1 ranking in ODI's. Sachin, Gambhir, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dhoni Dravid, Dhawan and even Rohit Sharma all established themselves well before IPL. It could be argued IPL helped push start the careers of Jadeja and Ashwin but that is about it. Kohli's development came at the Ranjhi and domestic level and he further refined himself at the U19 level. Maybe IPL helped his confidence and deal with pressure but that is about it.
    If you follow the context of the discussion, you will see that I am not crediting India's LOI success in this decade to the advent of the IPL. However, it has played a part.

    People are using the Champions Trophy win as proof of how superior PSL is to the IPL. Now imagine the credit people would give to the PSL if Pakistan were to achieve half of what India has in this decade.

    A T20 league is not going to make or break a player, but it is surely going to help players improve. Winning the Champions Trophy does not prove that the PSL is of a higher standard than the IPL. It is not even comparable considering the pool of overseas players in both leagues.

  38. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If you follow the context of the discussion, you will see that I am not crediting India's LOI success in this decade to the advent of the IPL. However, it has played a part.

    People are using the Champions Trophy win as proof of how superior PSL is to the IPL. Now imagine the credit people would give to the PSL if Pakistan were to achieve half of what India has in this decade.

    A T20 league is not going to make or break a player, but it is surely going to help players improve. Winning the Champions Trophy does not prove that the PSL is of a higher standard than the IPL. It is not even comparable considering the pool of overseas players in both leagues.
    Technically Pakistan has already achieved half...
    in 2010s : India won the World cup and CT
    : Pakistan won the CT


  39. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    Never understood this blatant degradation of Pakistan's achievement time and time again. First they degraded Pakistan's achievement of the number 1 Test team and now its the turn of the T20 ranking.

    Yes we have bashed West Indies but the West Indian T20 team is one of the best in the world. They have won 2 World Cups in that format. They are not cannon fodder. If we have bashed them, it reflects on our superior level. In fact the irony of this bashing is that if we were to be given 5 of West Indies players, these people will be the first to induct them in our team. But somehow beating WI is unworthy of cricket teams.

    India is a strong T20 team, yes but the fact is Pakistan is number 1 right now and they are not. They might as well become the number 1 team because they are indeed that good enough. And to suggest that India will beat 7 times out of 10 is based on nothing but admiration of their skills. Yes their skills are superior and I love watching Indian batsmen but to suggest that we will lose 70% of the matches is nothing but a hypothesis. As they say in Private Equity, "past performance is no indicator of future performance." This applies equally to India as it does to Pakistan.
    They are not the same teams. Totally different set of players barring 1-2. The WT20 winning WI team have thrashed us in our last 3 ICC tournament matches. This current WI side is cannon fodder for most teams unless players like Ewin Lewis etc. fire.

    Once we start playing the better sides regularly, we will lose our number one ranking. Just like how we lost our number one ranking in Tests once we started touring. It could happen to India as well next year, but they are well equipped to perform well away from Asia now - they have the best top 5 in the world.

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Technically Pakistan has already achieved half...
    in 2010s : India won the World cup and CT
    : Pakistan won the CT

    In addition, they have made it to a World T20 final and CT final. Not to forget, they have been ranked number one ODIs. So no, we have probably achieved around 30% of what they have in this decade.

  41. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    In addition, they have made it to a World T20 final and CT final. Not to forget, they have been ranked number one ODIs. So no, we have probably achieved around 30% of what they have in this decade.
    Ok.. we are getting close to a half then

  42. #202
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    @yasir

    The standard of a T20 league is judged by the pool of international players. Everything else is subjective. The IPL is simply in a league if its own as far as foreign players are concerned.

    Just one really good batsman? Not a single batsman of ours gets into their team in any format including Babar, and I have already explained why even he won't add much to this Indian team because of his batting style.

    India have the best top 5 in Test cricket at the moment, and the best top 3 in LOI cricket. The only thing they are lacking at the moment is a dynamic game-changer in the middle-order. The decline of Yuvraj, Dhoni and Raina has left a void that needs to be filled.

    They will beat us more often than not across all formats.

  43. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If you follow the context of the discussion, you will see that I am not crediting India's LOI success in this decade to the advent of the IPL. However, it has played a part.

    People are using the Champions Trophy win as proof of how superior PSL is to the IPL. Now imagine the credit people would give to the PSL if Pakistan were to achieve half of what India has in this decade.

    A T20 league is not going to make or break a player, but it is surely going to help players improve. Winning the Champions Trophy does not prove that the PSL is of a higher standard than the IPL. It is not even comparable considering the pool of overseas players in both leagues.
    IPL can only be associated with T20 success which India actually never managed since the IPL started. Ironically their only world cup T20 win gave birth to IPL. Similarly Pakistan won their only Worldcup T20 well before the PSL started. My point again these league can only be compared in terms of the entertainment factor and viewership.

  44. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    IPL can only be associated with T20 success which India actually never managed since the IPL started. Ironically their only world cup T20 win gave birth to IPL. Similarly Pakistan won their only Worldcup T20 well before the PSL started. My point again these league can only be compared in terms of the entertainment factor and viewership.
    ODI and T20 cricket have become interlinked in this decade. Now, both teams have pretty much the same makeup and strategy, and the ODIs are simply an extended format. These days, if most of your ODI players don't fit into your T20 team, you will struggle. Hence, these leagues are actually beneficial to both ODIs and T20s.

    Winning the World T20 is not the litmus test of the quality of the T20 league. If that's the case, then the CPL is the best league in the world.

  45. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Technically Pakistan has already achieved half...
    in 2010s : India won the World cup and CT
    : Pakistan won the CT


    I am not sure if you will be patient enough to make sense of my post but I will try.

    Success of IPL or for the matter of fact PSL doesn’t depend on winning a tournament especially in the ODI format.

    Will these leagues highlight exciting domestic talent-Sure,absolutely.

    Now here is where the success of IPL lies-The revenue generated by IPL for BCCI is obviously a big factor.

    Every Indian cricketer domestic or former test cricketer now receives pension from the BCCI and a very substantial one at that. You will not hear stories anymore from India atleast that a former test cricketer is driving a taxi or a former domestic cricketer is bagging groceries,etc.

    BCCI has invested in its facilities and has taken care of their ex cricketers. Can they do a lot more with the amount of money they make-Sure but hey atleast it’s a start.

    I don’t think any upcoming cricketer in India needs to worry about thinking of a backup plan or alternative career.

    Pakistan has enough passion that even without PSL they will produce world class talent and same goes for India as well.

    However, playing in UAE in front of half empty stadiums and on sluggish pitches is definitely a huge drawback for PSL.

    Luckily there is enough interest among Pakistani Public to sustain the league.

    Now let me buy your argument for a second that domestic cricket in Pakistan has enough talent and is at the level of WI in the 70s and 80s where you could field 3 international sides and trash every country but despite that they couldn’t compete with the incentive of South African rebel tours leave alone Kerry Packer World Series.
    Last edited by blue_champion; 13th November 2017 at 16:49.

  46. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    @yasir

    The standard of a T20 league is judged by the pool of international players. Everything else is subjective. The IPL is simply in a league if its own as far as foreign players are concerned.

    Just one really good batsman? Not a single batsman of ours gets into their team in any format including Babar, and I have already explained why even he won't add much to this Indian team because of his batting style.

    India have the best top 5 in Test cricket at the moment, and the best top 3 in LOI cricket. The only thing they are lacking at the moment is a dynamic game-changer in the middle-order. The decline of Yuvraj, Dhoni and Raina has left a void that needs to be filled.

    They will beat us more often than not across all formats.
    While I agree current Indian side is a good one but I dont belive they will beat us more often than not. At best they will start as slight favorites.

  47. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    ODI and T20 cricket have become interlinked in this decade. Now, both teams have pretty much the same makeup and strategy, and the ODIs are simply an extended format. These days, if most of your ODI players don't fit into your T20 team, you will struggle. Hence, these leagues are actually beneficial to both ODIs and T20s.

    Winning the World T20 is not the litmus test of the quality of the T20 league. If that's the case, then the CPL is the best league in the world.
    Like I have said before, the true test of any T20 league is how much money and interest its generating. both are linked with entertainment factor. At this moment in time one must admit IPL generates most interest and packed crowds so best league in the world. for PSL to come close the whole tournament has to be played in PAK with as many foreign players as possible. Just because the likes of ABD and Warner plays in the IPL doesnt make it better in quality but it definetly makes it more interesting which generate more money in the shape of sponsorship etc.

  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by htariq25 View Post
    Psl has much more local talent but ipl is the better league for now because it has quality foreign players and has been in existance for 10 years. Ipl has barely produced anyone in the last few years especially.
    Jasprit Bumrah (the highest ranking Indian Pace Bowler at the moment) is a product of IPL.

  49. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    Jasprit Bumrah (the highest ranking Indian Pace Bowler at the moment) is a product of IPL.
    I dont think he is a product of IPL alone... I think he would have been fine even if the IPL wasnt around. Good players will always find a way to get into national sides. These leagues are more about entertainment and excitement. Ofcourse if you are playing in them it can also help in skill development like in any other cricket.

  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    I meant revenue generator for their own board - which may cause the board to negotiate with the ICC to have its own window.

    Also can you provide a source that says BBL makes more money than PSL?

    BBL's broadcast rights alone are worth 20mn a year and is expected to rise to 50mn a year from 2019.


    https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/amp.h...b4b2d7ce992212

  51. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    I dont think he is a product of IPL alone... I think he would have been fine even if the IPL wasnt around. Good players will always find a way to get into national sides. These leagues are more about entertainment and excitement. Ofcourse if you are playing in them it can also help in skill development like in any other cricket.
    He was picked out of local leagues by then Mumbai Indians coach.It was John Wright i think.

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    I meant revenue generator for their own board - which may cause the board to negotiate with the ICC to have its own window.

    Also can you provide a source that says BBL makes more money than PSL?
    Secondly ICC provides no separate window for IPL.

  53. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Okay nowhere did I suggest that Kohli will be a walking wicket or that our current bowling attack at the moment is the GOAT.

    All I am saying is that Kohli will not find it as easy to “destroy” our current bowling attack containing Amir, Hasan and Shadab.

    Strange to claim our team is mediocre...

    World class batsmen in Babar Azam and Haris Sohail.
    3 world class bowlers in Mohammad Amir, Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan.
    Promising hard hitting all rounder in Faheem Ashraf.

    The only mediocre players are Imad and Hafeez.
    Babar - Yes! I agree! But Haris Sohail is a world class? Btw! How many matches has he played and could you pls enlighten me about some of his world class performances?

  54. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Like I have said before, the true test of any T20 league is how much money and interest its generating. both are linked with entertainment factor. At this moment in time one must admit IPL generates most interest and packed crowds so best league in the world. for PSL to come close the whole tournament has to be played in PAK with as many foreign players as possible. Just because the likes of ABD and Warner plays in the IPL doesnt make it better in quality but it definetly makes it more interesting which generate more money in the shape of sponsorship etc.
    It is very difficult to measure quality of a T20 game in general which is designed as a slam ban cricket to begin with.

    However what sets IPL apart is for starters,interest among the global cricketing community. Even in international games you will see commentators pointing out that so and so was the MVP in the IPL like they did with Stokes recently or with Watson. Hell even Sohail Tanvir has been able to make a living all these years on back of his run in IPL-1.

    Steve Smith showed more emotion in losing the IPL final than getting knocked out of the Champions Trophy. Now that doesn’t mean his love for India or Indian cricket,it means even on a personal level how much it would mean for him
    In terms of future deals and legacy.

    Now look at the pitches, you have the run tests in Bangalore, the low scoring pitches in Hyderabad, the even paced surfaces in Mumbai or the bouncy pitches in Mohali-there is a lot of variety here in terms of cricketing contests.

    I am not familiar with Pakistan geography or culture but in India there is a lot more diversity and emotion attached with respective cultures of states and cities.Dhoni is originally from 2000 Km away from Chennai but he is treated as a local superstar in Chennai. Forget cricketing quality you cannot beat that kind of emotional attachment.

    Then you add all the superstars and also the ICC window which allows for participation, it puts IPL in a different category altogether.

    I don’t read much into IPL and international cricket impact. IPL is a different genre and a brand on to itself. There are franchise leagues and then there is IPL. If that is not obvious enough then I don’t know what is.

  55. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    Babar - Yes! I agree! But Haris Sohail is a world class? Btw! How many matches has he played and could you pls enlighten me about some of his world class performances?
    He has world class “potential”.

    My point is that the Pakistan team is hardly
    mediocre.

  56. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Rohit is a world class player because he has performed consistently for a number of years, and he has reached heights that no other batsman has. Amir doesn't even have a 5-fer in ODIs.

    I can't believe you are asking this question. Starc is the best left-arm pacer of this era by a mile, and Boult is second to him. Amir has lot to do before he catches up to them, if ever.
    Did u see starc in the champions trophy? He was awful. Boult Is good yes but Amir is as good as him.

  57. #217
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    Gayle would not have gone to Pakistan for any of the PSL matches and that probably put off the franchises.

    In addition his fitness is questionable and he doesn't come cheap.



  58. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Gayle would not have gone to Pakistan for any of the PSL matches and that probably put off the franchises.

    In addition his fitness is questionable and he doesn't come cheap.
    Is everyone else ready to visit Pakistan?

  59. #219
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    IPL is light years ahead of PSL at the moment. Any comparisons are bordering on delusions. A league which has world-class players from all over the world desperate to play, cannot be compared to a new-born league which gets only a few of the aforementioned players.

    Yes Indian bowlers might be at an inferior level to the Pakistani ones, but the addition of blockbusters foreign stars in the IPL more than makes up for it.

  60. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    So reading the OP and some of the posts looks like Gayle is the benchmark...ok let us see

    Darren Sammy- was a bench warmer last IPL season.Didnt get a game leave alone being a captain or a regular.

    Kevin Pietersen-was a commentator

    Shane Watson- was benched after some
    mediocre performances

    Puts things in perspective doesn’t it?
    Sohail tanvir has the best figures in IPL history

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Is everyone else ready to visit Pakistan?
    Can't say for everyone but franchises have by and large opted for players who are prepared to go to Pakistan.



  62. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    Sohail tanvir has the best figures in IPL history
    Don't want to drag this, but Bopara, Afridi and Sami have the best bowling figures in the PSL.

  63. #223
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    PSL has better bowlers. Steyn is finished.

    Pakistan bowlers in Raees, Usman, Amir, Sohail, Hasan Ali alone are as good if not better than anyone in the IPL,

    Gayle is done now and can only score on a few flat tracks against average bowlers in India. Good choice to leave him out.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  64. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Don't want to drag this, but Bopara, Afridi and Sami have the best bowling figures in the PSL.
    Tanvir took the most wickets in the first IPL. Has Bopara and Afridi done this in the PSL?


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  65. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Tanvir took the most wickets in the first IPL. Has Bopara and Afridi done this in the PSL?
    Umar Akmal was the highest run scorer in PSL 2016, followed by Bopara, with Shehzad at #4. Kamran Akmal was the highest run scorer in PSL 2017.

  66. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Umar Akmal was the highest run scorer in PSL 2016, followed by Bopara, with Shehzad at #4. Kamran Akmal was the highest run scorer in PSL 2017.
    You mentioned wickets not runs. Tanvir was the highest wicket taker in the IPL and he wasn't even the best Pakistani bowler at the time.


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  67. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    You mentioned wickets not runs. Tanvir was the highest wicket taker in the IPL and he wasn't even the best Pakistani bowler at the time.
    We're discussing the quality of bowling in the PSL and the IPL. If Umar Akmal, Bopara, Shehzad and Kamran Akmal are prolific scorers in the PSL, you can easily guage the quality of bowling there.

  68. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    We're discussing the quality of bowling in the PSL and the IPL. If Umar Akmal, Bopara, Shehzad and Kamran Akmal are prolific scorers in the PSL, you can easily guage the quality of bowling there.
    Umer Akmal and Shehzad were on top form at the time. Bopara has a lot of experience in this format, its' a mute point.

    Compare the bowlers Gayle must face not the batsmen who could compete.

    Write down the top 10 IPL bowlers this coming season. Let's see.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  69. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    Sohail tanvir has the best figures in IPL history
    Yeah based on that performance,he has gotten a zillion opportunities for Pakistan where apparently there is a legendary fast bowler in every nukkad and galli. He has made a career in franchise cricket based on that golden run. That is the influence IPL has. Thanks for proving my point

  70. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Umer Akmal and Shehzad were on top form at the time. Bopara has a lot of experience in this format, its' a mute point.

    Compare the bowlers Gayle must face not the batsmen who could compete.

    Write down the top 10 IPL bowlers this coming season. Let's see.
    Why stop there. Tell me the top 10 cricketers in PSL currently and I will name you the Top 10 cricketers in IPL currently. Let us compare, absolutely.
    Last edited by blue_champion; 14th November 2017 at 01:05.

  71. #231
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    PSL has Pakistani bowlers which are the best in the world so I don't know why the Indians are getting their lungis in a bunch. Learn to accept other people's successes too, stop being so small.


    #Mein inko rolaonga

  72. #232
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    For those unable to comprehend that a league can be successful and have top notch cricket even if it doesn't have big names I'm posting the names of the foreign players in a certain league that is considered one of the best in the world.

    Name:  Capture.JPG
Views: 136
Size:  38.4 KB




    Ap sub se ma'asomana guzarish hai ke ap apna moh bund kar lein


    #Mein inko rolaonga

  73. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    PSL has Pakistani bowlers which are the best in the world so I don't know why the Indians are getting their lungis in a bunch. Learn to accept other people's successes too, stop being so small.
    And this claim is based on what?

    CT Win? man I don't even want to counter argue here just seeing how much this win means to you guys

  74. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    For those unable to comprehend that a league can be successful and have top notch cricket even if it doesn't have big names I'm posting the names of the foreign players in a certain league that is considered one of the best in the world.

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    Ap sub se ma'asomana guzarish hai ke ap apna moh bund kar lein
    Wait that list was posted to shut people up

  75. #235
    Debut
    Jan 2015
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    Toronto, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    And this claim is based on what?

    CT Win? man I don't even want to counter argue here just seeing how much this win means to you guys
    Last 12 months averages and economy of bowling sides. Take a look where India is below Oman and Netherlands. That is your level.

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    #Mein inko rolaonga

  76. #236
    Debut
    May 2016
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    Gayle is a true pitch player. PSL has sluggish pitches hence the struggles. There are other factors but this is the main one.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  77. #237
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    Yeah based on that performance,he has gotten a zillion opportunities for Pakistan where apparently there is a legendary fast bowler in every nukkad and galli. He has made a career in franchise cricket based on that golden run. That is the influence IPL has. Thanks for proving my point
    He's got zillions chances because of his connections.
    Talking about legendary bowlers in Pakistani gulleys, sohail Tanvir started as a spin bowler and had only been bowling fast for a couple of years up until that ipl.

  78. #238
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Umar Akmal was the highest run scorer in PSL 2016, followed by Bopara, with Shehzad at #4. Kamran Akmal was the highest run scorer in PSL 2017.
    Talking about shehzad and Umar Akmal, I dont think they would do to bad in IPl. They were the 2 top scorers for Lahore Lions Against Mumbai Indians.
    Umar Akmal Actually went not out with a strikerate over 200 against a attack comprising Of Bumrah+Malinga+Ojha+Harbhajan.

  79. #239
    Debut
    Oct 2016
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    Ok lets look at it this way.

    Shadab, Hasan, Fakhar, Raees, Shinwari etc just had to play one season of PSL to become international level products and they debuted right after playing their first addition.

    Most of the Indian players recently like Pandya, Bumrah etc had to play 2, 4 seasons atleast to be even considered for selection.

  80. #240
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    Oct 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    Wait that list was posted to shut people up
    If I am not wrong its the player pool of BBL and point he is trying to make that almost all of them are already in PSL with many more name. Its a guess so apologies if its wrong.

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