In the event of a war, will India use its nuclear weapons against Pakistan?

[MenInG]

Sad as it may seem, things can get out of hand in the heat of battle! India is a nuclear power and has the capability but will it use it on Pakistan if war ever breaks out?

[WebGuru]

There is a greater chance of Pakistan using nuclear weapons against India if there is war because our economy can't afford conventional war for a longer period... But TBH i can't see nuclear war or any other war happening btw both countries because other countries will make sure to jump in quickly and make us sit on table and talk.

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan and India are the only two nuclear nations who have been to war with each other in Kargil. India will not use the nuke as it would lose global support, their nation would be badly damaged, economy will collapse.

[KingKhanWC]

There is a greater chance of Pakistan using nuclear weapons against India if there is war because our economy can't afford conventional war for a longer period... But TBH can't see nuclear war or any war happening btw both countries other countries will make sure to jump in to make us sit on table and talk.

A smaller military power will use any weapons to save it self against a bigger power, which is fair enough.

[troodon]

A nuclear weapon dropped on Pak will effect India too.

Nuclear weapons are good to have when a country wants to make empty threats.

[cricketjoshila]

Its a myth that India wont use nukes.India knows that Pakistan will use nukes and hence its better to preempt such an event.

[cricketjoshila]

A smaller military power will use any weapons to save it self against a bigger power, which is fair enough.

The bigger power can always preempt such an attempt.

[KingKhanWC]

The bigger power can always preempt such an attempt.

Not when the smaller power is believed to have more nuclear warheads. If Pakistan or India unleash their nuclear weapons on each other plenty will hit their targets on both sides.

[Varun]

Nuclear weapons aren't meant to be fired, but are simply used as tools to prevent wars. They have been fairly successful in this regard.

The only countries irresponsible enough to use nukes would be the USA and Israel, in my honest opinion. India and Pakistan are full of chickens who wouldn't dare even when the supposed time comes.

[CricketCartoons]

Would be awesome to see a mushroom cloud. Memorable and historic death.

[cricketjoshila]

Not when the smaller power is believed to have more nuclear warheads. If Pakistan or India unleash their nuclear weapons on each other plenty will hit their targets on both sides.

Easily when smaller power is also much much smaller in size and the bigger power has much higher yield weapons.Not to mention that in couple of years india will have Russian-Israeli-Indian Anti Ballastic Missile systems.

There is no reason why India wont use its nuclear arsenal againist Pakistan first.

[cricketjoshila]

Nuclear weapons aren't meant to be fired, but are simply used as tools to prevent wars. They have been fairly successful in this regard.

The only countries irresponsible enough to use nukes would be the USA and Israel, in my honest opinion. India and Pakistan are full of chickens who wouldn't dare even when the supposed time comes.

With the advent of layered ABMs that scenario is changing.

[KingKhanWC]

Easily when smaller power is also much much smaller in size and the bigger power has much higher yield weapons.Not to mention that in couple of years india will have Russian-Israeli-Indian Anti Ballastic Missile systems.

There is no reason why India wont use its nuclear arsenal againist Pakistan first.

Is this new defence system better than what America has now?

[cricketjoshila]

Is this new defence system better than what America has now?

S 400 is considered arguably the best in the world.

Then the other layers include Indians own ABM.Israeli Barak and SPYder.

In future even a american system may be added as another layer.

[Yossarian]

There is no reason why India wont use its nuclear arsenal againist Pakistan first.

Don't delude yourself.

Even if India fired off all it's nukes at once in a surprise attack, it won't get all of Pakistan's nukes before they too are launched. Don't you think that the Pakistani planners wouldn't have planned for that? And at least some will get through to a major Indian conurbation.

More than just the physical destruction that nukes will cause, the psychological effects and the effects on the economy would be far worse. Do you think any other country would want to invest in, be dependent upon for services/products, or have any of their citizens in either country if either or both have been nuked? Even if only by a handful of nukes?

And on top of it all, the Hindu's turning on the minority Muslim's (a mere 200 million of them) will result in a scale of death and destruction never seen in history before. And you think foreigners and foreign companies will hang around during all that?

Fact is that regardless of who uses the nukes first, both will cease to exist in their current form.

[KingKhanWC]

S 400 is considered arguably the best in the world.

Then the other layers include Indians own ABM.Israeli Barak and SPYder.

In future even a american system may be added as another layer.

I asked because I read a recent report written by American experts saying their own missile defence system cannot secure them against any decent nuclear attack.

S400 is great but when Pakistan has so many warheads and fighter jets, it would be silly to think India could stop numerous nukes being rained down on them. Even the state of the art Israeli defence system cant stop all home made rockets.

[sshakir411]

Doesn't India have a stated no-first-use policy? I remember watching some documentary and almost all Indian politicians started their interviews saying "we have a no-first-use policy" and what not.

[akki]

Doesn't India have a stated no-first-use policy? I remember watching some documentary and almost all Indian politicians started their interviews saying "we have a no-first-use policy" and what not.

i guess it was till last govt there was no first use policy. but this Bjp govt has changed the stance of no first use.

[Varun]

And on top of it all, the Hindu's turning on the minority Muslim's (a mere 200 million of them) will result in a scale of death and destruction never seen in history before. And you think foreigners and foreign companies will hang around during all that?

Where did you get the idea that 1.1 billion people of India are going to nuke the other 0.2 billion people of the land? This discussion is about India and Pakistan deploying nukes against each other's countries.

[rahulrulezz]

India has a no first use policy so NO India will never use it. I am more worried if Pakistan indeed does it as in an event of a nuclear war, India has way more to loose

[Smiling Creed]

There will be two kinds of war fought in future - a) Limited scale : Like Kargil where fight will be limited to a geographical boundary there will be no escalation on other fronts. Can't see Nukes being used in this case. b) Full : If the war is across all the fronts, which ever side is on the verge of loosing of war will use Nuke, doesn't matter if it's Pakistan or India, they will fight to ensure mutual destruction.

[R0H1T]

Don't delude yourself.

Even if India fired off all it's nukes at once in a surprise attack, it won't get all of Pakistan's nukes before they too are launched. Don't you think that the Pakistani planners wouldn't have planned for that? And at least some will get through to a major Indian conurbation.

More than just the physical destruction that nukes will cause, the psychological effects and the effects on the economy would be far worse. Do you think any other country would want to invest in, be dependent upon for services/products, or have any of their citizens in either country if either or both have been nuked? Even if only by a handful of nukes?

And on top of it all, the Hindu's turning on the minority Muslim's (a mere 200 million of them) will result in a scale of death and destruction never seen in history before. And you think foreigners and foreign companies will hang around during all that?

Fact is that regardless of who uses the nukes first, both will cease to exist in their current form.

Yeah don't delude yourself, Pak will be wiped off the face of this earth, should you choose to go nuclear in war.

As for India, millions will die as well but we'll survive, China will loose it's biggest single market after the US & Tibet will also be hugely affected by nuclear fallout. Maybe you should ask your future masters if nuking India is in their best interests, or yours for that matter.

[CricketCartoons]

Fact is that regardless of who uses the nukes first, both will cease to exist in their current form.

Now that I think of it, probably Nehru and Gandhi didn't go for a full partition, as they wanted to have muslims as protection from Pakistani attack. Surely Pakistan will not nuke a nation which has so many muslims. I need to replan my demand for Partition 2.0

[WhenSultansBowled]

No. And neither would Pakistan do something this stupid.

Unless (which is never gonna happen, Insha'Allah) : the terrorists (Taliban / Pro-Hindu or external) get their hands on nukes.
Both Pak and Indian armies are one of the best in the world and for sake for billion souls I hope they guard these weapons of mass destruction with all their might.

[Yossarian]

In your rush to respond in a jingoistic manner, you all fail to digest the gist of the post and instead proceed to make childish remarks against the poster.

So let me take you through it all step-by-step.

Yeah don't delude yourself, Pak will be wiped off the face of this earth, should you choose to go nuclear in war.

As for India, millions will die as well but we'll survive, China will loose it's biggest single market after the US & Tibet will also be hugely affected by nuclear fallout. Maybe you should ask your future masters if nuking India is in their best interests, or yours for that matter.

Don't delude yourself.

Even if India fired off all it's nukes at once in a surprise attack, it won't get all of Pakistan's nukes before they too are launched. Don't you think that the Pakistani planners wouldn't have planned for that? And at least some will get through to a major Indian conurbation.

More than just the physical destruction that nukes will cause, the psychological effects and the effects on the economy would be far worse. Do you think any other country would want to invest in, be dependent upon for services/products, or have any of their citizens in either country if either or both have been nuked? Even if only by a handful of nukes?

Where did you get the idea that 1.1 billion people of India are going to nuke the other 0.2 billion people of the land? This discussion is about India and Pakistan deploying nukes against each other's countries.

Read, and most importantly, do try and understand what is written. Now there's a good chap.

Let me try and explain it to you in very simple terms that even you should be able to comprehend:

If any Pakistani nukes manage to get through and destroy an Indian city or two killing hundreds of thousands, then many (Hindu) Indians will blame the Muslims amongst them, which in turn will set off a chain reaction of sectarian unrest on a massive scale that will make the death and destruction during Partition to be a drop in the ocean.

Now that I think of it, probably Nehru and Gandhi didn't go for a full partition, as they wanted to have muslims as protection from Pakistani attack. Surely Pakistan will not nuke a nation which has so many muslims. I need to replan my demand for Partition 2.0

And on top of it all, the Hindu's turning on the minority Muslim's (a mere 200 million of them) will result in a scale of death and destruction never seen in history before. And you think foreigners and foreign companies will hang around during all that?

Fact is that regardless of who uses the nukes first, both will cease to exist in their current form.

[Varun]

If any Pakistani nukes manage to get through and destroy an Indian city or two killing hundreds of thousands, then many (Hindu) Indians will blame the Muslims amongst them, which in turn will set off a chain reaction of sectarian unrest on a massive scale that will make the death and destruction during Partition to be a drop in the ocean.

Eh? No they won't. That's as absurd as throwing the book at a Mohammad Shami because Pakistan beat us at the cricket. But who am I to stop your fantasies...

[CricketCartoons]

If any Pakistani nukes manage to get through and destroy an Indian city or two killing hundreds of thousands, then many (Hindu) Indians will blame the Muslims amongst them, which in turn will set off a chain reaction of sectarian unrest on a massive scale that will make the death and destruction during Partition to be a drop in the ocean.

Agreed with you deep analysis. The hindus will go after the indian muslims, if Pakistan nukes us. So Indian muslims will have to run from both Pakistani nukes and hindus. Obviously indian hindus will deny this, but it is the truth.

[Yossarian]

Eh? No they won't. That's as absurd as throwing the book at a Mohammad Shami because Pakistan beat us at the cricket. But who am I to stop your fantasies...

Stop being blinkered and look at the world with open eyes.

When an Indian icon adored by many tens of millions of Indians, such as Shah Rukh Khan can be told to get out of India and move to Pakistan for simply saying that there was “growing intolerance” in the country, then imagine the reaction of hardline Hindu's if 'Muslim Pakistan' kills hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Indians, due to a nuke or two getting through Indian anti-missile defences.

SRK talks like Hafiz Saeed, can go to Pakistan: Yogi Adityanath
After Sadhvi Prachi and Kailash Vijayvargiya, BJP MP Yogi Adityanath has attacked actor Shah Rukh Khan for saying there is extreme intolerance in the country and compared him with 26/11 mastermind Hafiz Saeed.

http://indianexpress.com/article/ind...gi-adityanath/

Do you understand the meaning of 'chain reaction' in the context of sectarian violence? You know very well that there are many parts of India where it wouldn't take much to set it off, and once it takes hold ........

[Yossarian]

Agreed with you deep analysis. The hindus will go after the indian muslims, if Pakistan nukes us. So Indian muslims will have to run from both Pakistani nukes and hindus. Obviously indian hindus will deny this, but it is the truth.

Glad you agree.

[SandyB]

My thoughts :

• In case of a full scale war, India's best interests is to keep it limited to conventional conflict. And pakistan's resources & manpower will run out much faster than India, simple due to the size difference between the nations. China will keep supplying money/fuel/arms, but there is no way it's gonna sent Chinese soldiers to fight pakistan's wars.
• In an event of a Sino -Indian war, there is every possibility that a conflict will be brought up on the western front to keep Indian forces/resources split up . But the vice-versa is very less likely because, if a full scale wall initiated will very likely be without china's approval (as any war is bad for china's economic interests in the region).
• Both countries wont be able to fire nukes at the other without taking atleast one hit themselves. From Indias POV, bombing lahore/karachi will also have the risk of the residual nuclear particles blowing over to India and causing huge contamination and death.
• Also Delhi, Mumbai, other major North cities & Bangalore are the most likely targets for a potential nuke attack. The defense installations in Vizag and the naval bases in Places like Kochi and military bases of dehradun are potential targets, but given pakistan will only have a small widow to hit maybe 4-5 targets before retaliation The causalities will be humongous.
• Also any unprovoked nuclear attack from pakistan will completely collapse whatever Hindu-muslim communal harmony we have. You are practically looking at Guj 2002, nationwide . Muslim dominated provinces Like Hyderabad, Kerala , Bengal etc will see some kind of resistance, but the overwhelming number of the Hindu population who are rioting will lead to maximum violence in those regions .
• Also the nuclear attack will severly damage the livability / agricultural prospects of the heavily populated Northern states (which will be the prime targets) , which will result in a colossal migration of people (bigger than the partition) towards the relatively less damaged far south and North east. That will exacerbate whatever inter-state divisions & disontent we have and can lead to a complete balkanisation of the country .
• Pakistan, I don't think will survive a nuclear war at all, owing to the smaller size. Also further rebuliding would purely depend on how far Iran & Afghanistan are read to take in refugees and weather the Gulf will bankroll rebuliding .
• Also unlike what some posters here think, largescale war followed by an ethnic cleansing / communal violence situation in India WILL NOT completely destroy foreign investment here. As long as the Christians (protestants/evangelicals mainly) are unaffected in the riots, the western nations will come back after some time. They did the same with germany and Japan after WW2. Economy and the quest for survival trumps all other humanitarian feelings. The Gulf may cut ties with India permanently , but given how unstable Saudi could become in the future, their economic might could greatly reduce by then.

All of this is from a purely academic "what if" perspective. Nuclear war of any kind will irreparably damage both countries. Even if India survives by its size, the sheer number of deaths , injuries and displaced population will be a global calamity on an unprecedented scale.

Like that scene in the titanic , once the ship sinks, the lifeboats that escaped prior, chose not to go back to look for survivors and thereby risk sinking their bots sink via overcrowding.

The same will play out in India, which will see a sort of Mad Max like dystopian situation , where nuke affected states turning into wastelands which will will be walled and the people (especially the poor) shut out by the surviving 'safe' states.
Patriotism / unity in the subcontinent will work only till the first nuke hits, then its a rat race for survival. And given the sample that the partition Showed us, a post nuclear India/Pakistan will be far worse than any dystopian hell you've seen in the movies till now.

[cricketjoshila]

Don't delude yourself.

Even if India fired off all it's nukes at once in a surprise attack, it won't get all of Pakistan's nukes before they too are launched. Don't you think that the Pakistani planners wouldn't have planned for that? And at least some will get through to a major Indian conurbation.

More than just the physical destruction that nukes will cause, the psychological effects and the effects on the economy would be far worse. Do you think any other country would want to invest in, be dependent upon for services/products, or have any of their citizens in either country if either or both have been nuked? Even if only by a handful of nukes?

And on top of it all, the Hindu's turning on the minority Muslim's (a mere 200 million of them) will result in a scale of death and destruction never seen in history before. And you think foreigners and foreign companies will hang around during all that?

Fact is that regardless of who uses the nukes first, both will cease to exist in their current form.

All these foreign ramifications are conjectures.You dont know who will react in which way.Everyone will have their own interests to look after.

Why will Hindus turn on Muslims?This is between two countries.

India in the first wave may not wipe out entire Pakistani nuke capability but it will surely take out a majority of them.Indian spy satellites will be then on the look out for any nuke activity in remaining Pakistan.The ABMs will also kick in.

[cricketjoshila]

I asked because I read a recent report written by American experts saying their own missile defence system cannot secure them against any decent nuclear attack.

S400 is great but when Pakistan has so many warheads and fighter jets, it would be silly to think India could stop numerous nukes being rained down on them. Even the state of the art Israeli defence system cant stop all home made rockets.

US comparision is moot.US will be targetted by ICBMs which have a lot more speed and range and hence are far more difficult to track and shoot down.Pakistan doesnt have ICBMs it has MRBMs and IRBMs and the S 400 with a tracking range of 800km can track a missile from the moment it is fired from Pakistan.

Pakistan have a estimated 120 warheads. Your jets will be taken down by the IAF as they have both numerical and technological superiority.

Only Pakistani missiles are a concern, if India preempts a nuke strike by Pakistan it will take out a huge chunk of Pakistani Nuke capability.

[cricketjoshila]

Eh? No they won't. That's as absurd as throwing the book at a Mohammad Shami because Pakistan beat us at the cricket. But who am I to stop your fantasies...

LOL.India has fought 4 wars with Pakistan and Indian Muslims have fought for India valiantly. Expect a Pakistani to bring such absurd religious theories.

[cricketjoshila]

Exepct the next war to be a Kargil like limited affair. Which will finally force Pakistan to stop interfering in Kashmir by using terrorists and India will accept Status quo for next 50 years. That will be the end of that.

[maxamax]

Pakistan right now is in self-destruct mode. Its only couple of decades away till people realize this. India dont need to use nuke or anything. Popcorns would do good.

[kingusama92]

My thoughts :

• In case of a full scale war, India's best interests is to keep it limited to conventional conflict. And pakistan's resources & manpower will run out much faster than India, simple due to the size difference between the nations. China will keep supplying money/fuel/arms, but there is no way it's gonna sent Chinese soldiers to fight pakistan's wars.
• In an event of a Sino -Indian war, there is every possibility that a conflict will be brought up on the western front to keep Indian forces/resources split up . But the vice-versa is very less likely because, if a full scale wall initiated will very likely be without china's approval (as any war is bad for china's economic interests in the region).
• Both countries wont be able to fire nukes at the other without taking atleast one hit themselves. From Indias POV, bombing lahore/karachi will also have the risk of the residual nuclear particles blowing over to India and causing huge contamination and death.
• Also Delhi, Mumbai, other major North cities & Bangalore are the most likely targets for a potential nuke attack. The defense installations in Vizag and the naval bases in Places like Kochi and military bases of dehradun are potential targets, but given pakistan will only have a small widow to hit maybe 4-5 targets before retaliation The causalities will be humongous.
• Also any unprovoked nuclear attack from pakistan will completely collapse whatever Hindu-muslim communal harmony we have. You are practically looking at Guj 2002, nationwide . Muslim dominated provinces Like Hyderabad, Kerala , Bengal etc will see some kind of resistance, but the overwhelming number of the Hindu population who are rioting will lead to maximum violence in those regions .
• Also the nuclear attack will severly damage the livability / agricultural prospects of the heavily populated Northern states (which will be the prime targets) , which will result in a colossal migration of people (bigger than the partition) towards the relatively less damaged far south and North east. That will exacerbate whatever inter-state divisions & disontent we have and can lead to a complete balkanisation of the country .
• Pakistan, I don't think will survive a nuclear war at all, owing to the smaller size. Also further rebuliding would purely depend on how far Iran & Afghanistan are read to take in refugees and weather the Gulf will bankroll rebuliding .
• Also unlike what some posters here think, largescale war followed by an ethnic cleansing / communal violence situation in India WILL NOT completely destroy foreign investment here. As long as the Christians (protestants/evangelicals mainly) are unaffected in the riots, the western nations will come back after some time. They did the same with germany and Japan after WW2. Economy and the quest for survival trumps all other humanitarian feelings. The Gulf may cut ties with India permanently , but given how unstable Saudi could become in the future, their economic might could greatly reduce by then.

All of this is from a purely academic "what if" perspective. Nuclear war of any kind will irreparably damage both countries. Even if India survives by its size, the sheer number of deaths , injuries and displaced population will be a global calamity on an unprecedented scale.

Like that scene in the titanic , once the ship sinks, the lifeboats that escaped prior, chose not to go back to look for survivors and thereby risk sinking their bots sink via overcrowding.

The same will play out in India, which will see a sort of Mad Max like dystopian situation , where nuke affected states turning into wastelands which will will be walled and the people (especially the poor) shut out by the surviving 'safe' states.
Patriotism / unity in the subcontinent will work only till the first nuke hits, then its a rat race for survival. And given the sample that the partition Showed us, a post nuclear India/Pakistan will be far worse than any dystopian hell you've seen in the movies till now.

Solid post.

Reasonable analysis without unnecessary jingoism.

[Varun]

Pakistan right now is in self-destruct mode. Its only couple of decades away till people realize this. India dont need to use nuke or anything. Popcorns would do good.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you but the current Nawaz Sharif tenure has steadied the ship somewhat, at least economically and from a terrorism standpoint.

Recall the basket case connotations associated with Pakistan in the late-2000s. There's not so much of that nowadays.

[DRsohail]

inda o chance pakistan slight chances if they can,t sustain fight for long because of thin economy.

[Madplayer]

First of all the two countries wont go to war at all. They simply cant because of the fear of Nukes. So hold your horses there.

Secondly, India has a stated No first use policy and the fact that they want to become members of NSG so badly, it is highly unlikely that they will use nukes first. India likes to present itself as a responsible nuclear power which was one of the reasons why the landmark Indo-Us nuclear deal was signed in mid 2000s allowing India to trade in nuclear materials wihout being a part of NSG albeit within some limitations.

Thirdly, Indian defense has established something called the cold star doctrine which means they will carry out a premptive non-nuclear attack on Pakistan's nuclear bases to neutralise them just incase Indians are sure that Pakistan has no option left but to use nukes.

Calm down, it wont get to that point. The proxy wars would continue unless an external war comes to the region in the form of World war 3.

[Yossarian]

Thirdly, Indian defense has established something called the cold star doctrine which means they will carry out a premptive non-nuclear attack on Pakistan's nuclear bases to neutralise them just incase Indians are sure that Pakistan has no option left but to use nukes.

And considering that it would be extremely unlikely for India to neutralise them all in time before they are fired, and at least some of them will get through Indian defences? What then?

Wars, once started, take on a life of their own. No one can say to what extent they can escalate far beyond anyone could have predicted, and who else will get dragged in. Just look at WW1 and WW2 as prime examples.

And even more so now in the age of globalisation where world economies are interdependent, where the fallout from nukes does not respect geographical boundaries, and where countries thousands of miles away can be impacted by clouds of radiation fallout.

[Sidilicious]

And considering that it would be extremely unlikely for India to neutralise them all in time before they are fired, and at least some of them will get through Indian defences? What then?

Wars, once started, take on a life of their own. No one can say to what extent they can escalate far beyond anyone could have predicted, and who else will get dragged in. Just look at WW1 and WW2 as prime examples.

And even more so now in the age of globalisation where world economies are interdependent, where the fallout from nukes does not respect geographical boundaries, and where countries thousands of miles away can be impacted by clouds of radiation fallout.

It won't come to that. Do you even imaging how crazy it can become even if both countries fire just 1 nuclear weapon? Do you know how many lived will die with a press of a button? Its ridiculous to even think about such an outcome.

[Yossarian]

It won't come to that. Do you even imaging how crazy it can become even if both countries fire just 1 nuclear weapon? Do you know how many lived will die with a press of a button? Its ridiculous to even think about such an outcome.

By and large I agree with you. Other posters seem to be arguing that even a few nukes is not such a big deal, as "China will keep out of it", "Pakistan will be annihilated", "their economy is too strong", "India will strike first via non-nuke means and take out all of Pakistan's nukes".

Whereas my point was that if a war does start, and even one nuke gets through, on either side, the consequences are unimaginable.

[WhenSultansBowled]

My thoughts :

• In case of a full scale war, India's best interests is to keep it limited to conventional conflict. And pakistan's resources & manpower will run out much faster than India, simple due to the size difference between the nations. China will keep supplying money/fuel/arms, but there is no way it's gonna sent Chinese soldiers to fight pakistan's wars.
• In an event of a Sino -Indian war, there is every possibility that a conflict will be brought up on the western front to keep Indian forces/resources split up . But the vice-versa is very less likely because, if a full scale wall initiated will very likely be without china's approval (as any war is bad for china's economic interests in the region).
• Both countries wont be able to fire nukes at the other without taking atleast one hit themselves. From Indias POV, bombing lahore/karachi will also have the risk of the residual nuclear particles blowing over to India and causing huge contamination and death.
• Also Delhi, Mumbai, other major North cities & Bangalore are the most likely targets for a potential nuke attack. The defense installations in Vizag and the naval bases in Places like Kochi and military bases of dehradun are potential targets, but given pakistan will only have a small widow to hit maybe 4-5 targets before retaliation The causalities will be humongous.
• Also any unprovoked nuclear attack from pakistan will completely collapse whatever Hindu-muslim communal harmony we have. You are practically looking at Guj 2002, nationwide . Muslim dominated provinces Like Hyderabad, Kerala , Bengal etc will see some kind of resistance, but the overwhelming number of the Hindu population who are rioting will lead to maximum violence in those regions .
• Also the nuclear attack will severly damage the livability / agricultural prospects of the heavily populated Northern states (which will be the prime targets) , which will result in a colossal migration of people (bigger than the partition) towards the relatively less damaged far south and North east. That will exacerbate whatever inter-state divisions & disontent we have and can lead to a complete balkanisation of the country .
• Pakistan, I don't think will survive a nuclear war at all, owing to the smaller size. Also further rebuliding would purely depend on how far Iran & Afghanistan are read to take in refugees and weather the Gulf will bankroll rebuliding .
• Also unlike what some posters here think, largescale war followed by an ethnic cleansing / communal violence situation in India WILL NOT completely destroy foreign investment here. As long as the Christians (protestants/evangelicals mainly) are unaffected in the riots, the western nations will come back after some time. They did the same with germany and Japan after WW2. Economy and the quest for survival trumps all other humanitarian feelings. The Gulf may cut ties with India permanently , but given how unstable Saudi could become in the future, their economic might could greatly reduce by then.

All of this is from a purely academic "what if" perspective. Nuclear war of any kind will irreparably damage both countries. Even if India survives by its size, the sheer number of deaths , injuries and displaced population will be a global calamity on an unprecedented scale.

Like that scene in the titanic , once the ship sinks, the lifeboats that escaped prior, chose not to go back to look for survivors and thereby risk sinking their bots sink via overcrowding.

The same will play out in India, which will see a sort of Mad Max like dystopian situation , where nuke affected states turning into wastelands which will will be walled and the people (especially the poor) shut out by the surviving 'safe' states.
Patriotism / unity in the subcontinent will work only till the first nuke hits, then its a rat race for survival. And given the sample that the partition Showed us, a post nuclear India/Pakistan will be far worse than any dystopian hell you've seen in the movies till now.

Well said.

Warmongers and people inciting violence will be the first ones to flee, as it has always happened in humanity's history.

In a conventional non-nuclear war: India might win it but it will be a Pyrrhic victory for India in best case scenario.

[sshakir411]

i guess it was till last govt there was no first use policy. but this Bjp govt has changed the stance of no first use.

Oh gosh...sounds like an extremist takeover. What the world feared for Pakistan has happened to Indian Nukes....yikess...

[CricketCartoons]

Patriotism / unity in the subcontinent will work only till the first nuke hits, then its a rat race for survival. And given the sample that the partition Showed us, a post nuclear India/Pakistan will be far worse than any dystopian hell you've seen in the movies till now.

Only the rats and lechers will run for their safety when the country is under attack. The patriots will die fighting. Would love to see the anti nationals running like the coward rats they are when Pakistan attacks us.

[Madplayer]

And considering that it would be extremely unlikely for India to neutralise them all in time before they are fired, and at least some of them will get through Indian defences? What then?

Wars, once started, take on a life of their own. No one can say to what extent they can escalate far beyond anyone could have predicted, and who else will get dragged in. Just look at WW1 and WW2 as prime examples.

And even more so now in the age of globalisation where world economies are interdependent, where the fallout from nukes does not respect geographical boundaries, and where countries thousands of miles away can be impacted by clouds of radiation fallout.

Ofcourse what you are saying is correct. If it reaches to a point where one country would try to neutralize another country's nukes, we should kiss our behinds goodbye already. Even 1 nuke is enough to cause irreparable damage. The amount of nukes these 2 countries have, they can wipe out the entire world with them.

But whats the question in the OP? I was answering that.

[Madplayer]

Only the rats and lechers will run for their safety when the country is under attack. The patriots will die fighting. Would love to see the anti nationals running like the coward rats they are when Pakistan attacks us.

Its easy to talk tough on the internet. Most of the population of the world is anti-national then (for their own countries). Lots of People put their families and themselves over any abstract concept like patriotism and stuff.

[big_gamer007]

Lol weird thread Indian economy is growing and we are focussed on economy, why would anyone in India want to set back the economy 70 years? Question of nuke is hypothetical and there is no point debating this as none of the posters here have any idea about defence/military strategies in depth which are being followed in both the countries..

[KingKhanWC]

US comparision is moot.US will be targetted by ICBMs which have a lot more speed and range and hence are far more difficult to track and shoot down.Pakistan doesnt have ICBMs it has MRBMs and IRBMs and the S 400 with a tracking range of 800km can track a missile from the moment it is fired from Pakistan.

Pakistan have a estimated 120 warheads. Your jets will be taken down by the IAF as they have both numerical and technological superiority.

Only Pakistani missiles are a concern, if India preempts a nuke strike by Pakistan it will take out a huge chunk of Pakistani Nuke capability.

S400 has been delivered to India? 8 launchers with 32 missiles isn't enough to stop Pakistani missiles.

IAF jets arent that much superiour they can compensate for your pilots. Besides Pakistan is on the border, it's jets can easily move into Indian territory and execute a nuclear strike.

I know you're a hardcore patriot who believes India is some superpower but please get with reality. India will never be able to stop nukes hitting it's territory.

[Lonewarrior]

No defence shield/SAMs are 100% perfect. Even "S-400".
heard about Raytheon systems ? they have developing the system to counter S-400.
Israel is developing same kind of system for S-400.
so dos the other countries.
in case of indo-pak nuke war. both shares the border. so both countries will be wiped out from the map.
pakistan have a very calculated nuke doctrine which counters every move of thre enemy. be it NASR & Ababeel MIRVs or second-strike capability or reaching andaman and nicobar islands.
so dont be deluded yourself about having, big yield/having H-bomb or big land etc etc .
becoz its gonna be MAD.

[cricketjoshila]

S400 has been delivered to India? 8 launchers with 32 missiles isn't enough to stop Pakistani missiles.

IAF jets arent that much superiour they can compensate for your pilots. Besides Pakistan is on the border, it's jets can easily move into Indian territory and execute a nuclear strike.

I know you're a hardcore patriot who believes India is some superpower but please get with reality. India will never be able to stop nukes hitting it's territory.

What 8 launchers and 32 missiles?

India has ordered 5 regiments of S 400 not just 1 isolated system.Thats enough to counter for Pakistani nukes.

The Rafales and MKIs are far superior to anything that Pakistan can field.Your pilots are no big deal.

Your Fighters can be tracked by our long range radars from and there are atleast 3 anti aircraft systems 2 Israeli and one Indian which will try to bring them down apart from the IAF fighters.

May be 1 or 2 nukes will hit.But the attacking country will be wiped off the map.

[KingKhanWC]

What 8 launchers and 32 missiles?

India has ordered 5 regiments of S 400 not just 1 isolated system.Thats enough to counter for Pakistani nukes.

The Rafales and MKIs are far superior to anything that Pakistan can field.Your pilots are no big deal.

Your Fighters can be tracked by our long range radars from and there are atleast 3 anti aircraft systems 2 Israeli and one Indian which will try to bring them down apart from the IAF fighters.

May be 1 or 2 nukes will hit.But the attacking country will be wiped off the map.

India will be deploying regiments against the Chinese too, probably more than against Pakistan. Each regiment has 8 & 32. I dont think you have have enough.

Tracking fighters and actually taking them down is very different.

It would be more than 1 or 2 but even 2 is enough to send India into an economic collapse and ruin it for decades to come. Pakistan may or not be wiped off the map but there is only one Hindu majority nation which will be left in tatters too.

Bottom line is damage to both nations will be catastrophic not to mention the war will likely to expand involving other nations.

[cricketjoshila]

India will be deploying regiments against the Chinese too, probably more than against Pakistan. Each regiment has 8 & 32. I dont think you have have enough.

Tracking fighters and actually taking them down is very different.

It would be more than 1 or 2 but even 2 is enough to send India into an economic collapse and ruin it for decades to come. Pakistan may or not be wiped off the map but there is only one Hindu majority nation which will be left in tatters too.

Bottom line is damage to both nations will be catastrophic not to mention the war will likely to expand involving other nations.

5 regiments mean 10 battalions and indications are that atleast 3 regiments will on the western front. Thats more than enough to counter Pakistan.

India and China are not at war and will not go to war.

Nukes annhilated Japanese cities.Add to that the ruin of WW2.But it took Japan only 2 decades to roar back as one of the fastest economy in the world.Japan is far smaller than India.So India can very well survive if 1-2 nukes hit.Though the retaliation will wipe out the attacker as that will be the objective.

The Germans, The Japanese, The Brits all came out of the ravages of war no reason why India wont do it.

At worst 500mn Indians will die but those who survive will make a greater India, free of threats from a hostile neighbour.

FYI numbers really dont matter these days, look at the Jews, small in number but far bigger in influence than any other religion.

[KingKhanWC]

5 regiments mean 10 battalions and indications are that atleast 3 regiments will on the western front. Thats more than enough to counter Pakistan.

India and China are not at war and will not go to war.

Nukes annhilated Japanese cities.Add to that the ruin of WW2.But it took Japan only 2 decades to roar back as one of the fastest economy in the world.Japan is far smaller than India.So India can very well survive if 1-2 nukes hit.Though the retaliation will wipe out the attacker as that will be the objective.

The Germans, The Japanese, The Brits all came out of the ravages of war no reason why India wont do it.

At worst 500mn Indians will die but those who survive will make a greater India, free of threats from a hostile neighbour.

FYI numbers really dont matter these days, look at the Jews, small in number but far bigger in influence than any other religion.

If its enough and India China wont go to war is your opinion, nothing more.

Indians aren't Japanese or Jews and Jews have serious backing of western nations due to Christian and Jewish Zionism.

After 500mn deaths Indian will remain a third world country for another century. The west wont care about brown Indians once Pakistan is pretty much destroyed. Stop being delusional, look in the mirror. You are Indian not white western.

[Majestic_Inzi]

Eh? No they won't. That's as absurd as throwing the book at a Mohammad Shami because Pakistan beat us at the cricket. But who am I to stop your fantasies...

eh yea, the cow vigilantes will be wanting blood, im 100% convinced hindus will want revenge.

[Syed1]

5 regiments mean 10 battalions and indications are that atleast 3 regiments will on the western front. Thats more than enough to counter Pakistan.

India and China are not at war and will not go to war.

Nukes annhilated Japanese cities.Add to that the ruin of WW2.But it took Japan only 2 decades to roar back as one of the fastest economy in the world.Japan is far smaller than India.So India can very well survive if 1-2 nukes hit.Though the retaliation will wipe out the attacker as that will be the objective.

The Germans, The Japanese, The Brits all came out of the ravages of war no reason why India wont do it.

At worst 500mn Indians will die but those who survive will make a greater India, free of threats from a hostile neighbour.

FYI numbers really dont matter these days, look at the Jews, small in number but far bigger in influence than any other religion.

Yeah 70 saal mein tou gurbaat se maray ja rahay hain Indian leken bum phattnay ke bees saal baad first world country bun jaingaye HAHAHAHHAA


LOL at the chest thumpers on this forum

[Syed1]

I love the delusions of the Indians who think they are some first world country with advanced technological capabilities. Make no mistakes about if nukes are lobbed not much of India will be left.

[Yossarian]

At worst 500mn Indians will die but those who survive will make a greater India, free of threats from a hostile neighbour..

How glibly you say that

I'm sure the 500 million dead Indians you mention wouldn't care too much if India prospered again or not.

Do you seriously think if 500 million Indians get wiped out with nukes, life will carry on as normal for the rest? India, and Pakistan, and most probably many other countries that will get affected by radiation fallout as the winds carry it around the globe will be devastated on an unimagineable scale.

[Yossarian]

Lol weird thread Indian economy is growing and we are focussed on economy, why would anyone in India want to set back the economy 70 years? Question of nuke is hypothetical and there is no point debating this as none of the posters here have any idea about defence/military strategies in depth which are being followed in both the countries..

If "Question of nuke is hypothetical" then there would be no point in either country developing and producing them. Both countries have gone to all the trouble of producing them on the basis that they will be a realistic, not hypothetical, threat of being used.

The side that has the smaller economy and smaller defence forces of the two is the one most likely to use them first if they have their backs to the wall and are about to be defeated, on the basis that "If I'm going to die anyway, I'll make sure that I leave you paralysed from the waist down at the very least".

[maxamax]

A few years ago I would have agreed with you but the current Nawaz Sharif tenure has steadied the ship somewhat, at least economically and from a terrorism standpoint.

Recall the basket case connotations associated with Pakistan in the late-2000s. There's not so much of that nowadays.

Not exactly, there's ton of corruption now actually hurting the economy in the longer run. No one is willing to invest in Pakistan anymore. Companies were doing that despite attacks in Musharraf era. Dollar has climbed Rs. 105+, it was Rs 60~ in Musharraf's era, and PMLN people just jump up the price for their own greed. All the projects they are doing are of extremely low quality and would get exposed sooner or later. And upcoming party won't be doing any better.

Terrorism was reduced after the APS-attack and post attack efforts of Army+GRS (jab unke apne bache mare to hosh aai). It got nothing to do with political leadership. Those groups will return under the name of different banner sooner or later. Same illusion was created for shorter duration during Swat Operation in Musharraf time.

I will only consider Pakistan not going downwards after meeting following criteria:

- When Pakistan will be among leader in exports.
- When MNCs will be booming in Pakistan.
- When there will be a strong infrastructure for industrial growth (no load-shedding of electricity/gas/water), quality roads.
- When education quality will be as good as any western country, its not about having air-conditioned room with comfy seats, its about imparting quality education.
- When PK RS will be respectable again.
- When there will only be 2-3 terror attacks per month.
- When law and order will work same for everyone.
- Corruption and Nepotism will be minimized.

[Couch Cricketer]

I expect Pakistan to use nuclear weapons before India. As when in comes conventional war India army is way larger as well a large portion of our army is at the Afghan border. In a war between India and Pakistan I expect Afghanistan to support India and our army divided on 2 sides will be at a huge disadvantage. Why will Afghan forces support India.

1. Many of the people in power currently hate the Taliban which Pakistan has supported for years and blame us for allowing terrorist to operate from Pakistan to attack Afghanistan.
2. They don't except the Durand line border

We have not won any conventional war with India despite whatever propaganda we are taught. We lost half the country in one war another india had captured large portion of Sind which they gave back because of pressure from other countries.

[CricketCartoons]

How glibly you say that

I'm sure the 500 million dead Indians you mention wouldn't care too much if India prospered again or not.

Do you seriously think if 500 million Indians get wiped out with nukes, life will carry on as normal for the rest? India, and Pakistan, and most probably many other countries that will get affected by radiation fallout as the winds carry it around the globe will be devastated on an unimagineable scale.

I don't mind 500 million indians dying during attack by Pakistan, but it should be with conventional weapons, not nukes. Otherwise it will leave the land inhabitable for the rest of us who will survive. There is an economic boom after war or mass deaths like it happened after ww2 and Black Death.

[cricketjoshila]

If its enough and India China wont go to war is your opinion, nothing more.

Indians aren't Japanese or Jews and Jews have serious backing of western nations due to Christian and Jewish Zionism.

After 500mn deaths Indian will remain a third world country for another century. The west wont care about brown Indians once Pakistan is pretty much destroyed. Stop being delusional, look in the mirror. You are Indian not white western.

Its enough.Thats the opinion of Indian military not mine.

Yes India and China are not going to war.Both countries have affirmed to a no use of nuclear weapons first.Thats official chinese policy not my opinion.

What Indians are doesnot depend on your opinion.Poor you.

[cricketjoshila]

Yeah 70 saal mein tou gurbaat se maray ja rahay hain Indian leken bum phattnay ke bees saal baad first world country bun jaingaye HAHAHAHHAA


LOL at the chest thumpers on this forum

Pakistan ka haal dekh lo India ka baad mein soch lena.

[cricketjoshila]

How glibly you say that

I'm sure the 500 million dead Indians you mention wouldn't care too much if India prospered again or not.

Do you seriously think if 500 million Indians get wiped out with nukes, life will carry on as normal for the rest? India, and Pakistan, and most probably many other countries that will get affected by radiation fallout as the winds carry it around the globe will be devastated on an unimagineable scale.

I said the worst case scenario.Japan survived nukes and their geographical area was far less.Europe survived 2 World Wars.

[Madplayer]

The Germans, The Japanese, The Brits all came out of the ravages of war no reason why India wont do it.

At worst 500mn Indians will die but those who survive will make a greater India, free of threats from a hostile neighbour.

I nominate this as the worst post i have ever seen on PakPassion in my 5 years on this forum.

I don't want to get personal but this does say something about the way you think.

[CricketCartoons]

I nominate this as the worst post i have ever seen on PakPassion in my 5 years on this forum.

I don't want to get personal but this does say something about the way you think.

Fail to see what is wrong or even mildly offending with the post. We are discussing war and nukes, so casualties will also be discussed. Faint hearted people should stay away from this thread.

[cricketjoshila]

I nominate this as the worst post i have ever seen on PakPassion in my 5 years on this forum.

I don't want to get personal but this does say something about the way you think.

I discussing a academic scenario is the worst post.

[Madplayer]

Fail to see what is wrong or even mildly offending with the post. We are discussing war and nukes, so casualties will also be discussed. Faint hearted people should stay away from this thread.

I dont know about what you think, but that post reeks of war mongering and justifies false hollow pride at the cost of human lives. We shouldnt be discussing loss of 500 million lives so casually and calling it "at worst" like it isnt a big deal and life would be normal after such a thing.

Stop making war mongering normal. You havent seen the face of violence and death.

[Madplayer]

I discussing a academic scenario is the worst post.

You here are talking about wiping out 500mn people and calling it "at worst" like it isnt a big thing.

[CricketCartoons]

I dont know about what you think, but that post reeks of war mongering and justifies false hollow pride at the cost of human lives. We shouldnt be discussing loss of 500 million lives so casually and calling it "at worst" like it isnt a big deal and life would be normal after such a thing.

Stop making war mongering normal. You havent seen the face of violence and death.

There are two nations with nukes meant to wipe out entire population, spending huge sums on weapons, and citizens who glorify soldiers hired for killing. So it is already normal. I respect your value for human life, and I admit I am insensitive to it as I see it as inevitable and a natural order of things. We need a reset. Destruction before we can build a better society.

[cricketjoshila]

In comes an Indian with the Pandit card again when it has nothing to do with the topic. Why am i not surprised?

Whatever i have denied, i have discussed it in many other threads and have provided reasons, facts and official stats for it. You here are talking about wiping out 500mn people and calling it "at worst" like it isnt a big thing. I guess we both know what we are talking about.

We are discussing nuclear war here.Should we not discuss casualties?

[Yossarian]

I said the worst case scenario.Japan survived nukes and their geographical area was far less.Europe survived 2 World Wars.

2 smallish nukes by modern standards. Furthermore, the one who dropped the nukes did so in the full knowledge that there's won't be any coming back the other way, and neither would any fallout from the one's already dropped since they've been exploded thousands of miles away from your own territory. Hence a meaningless comparison.

[MenInG]

CJ we will chck to make sure your account's not been hacked!

[Yossarian]

I don't mind 500 million indians dying during attack by Pakistan, but it should be with conventional weapons, not nukes. Otherwise it will leave the land inhabitable for the rest of us who will survive. There is an economic boom after war or mass deaths like it happened after ww2 and Black Death.

You "don't mind 500 million indians dying during attack by Pakistan"?

As for "it will leave the land inhabitable for the rest of us who will survive." how do you know that you, and everyone that you love and care about, won't be part of the "500 million dead Indians"?

In modern times, with globalisation and all that, the numbers killed as a direct result of military action form a fraction of the total number who's lives are destroyed due to hunger, disease, chaos, and anarchy that results. Just look at Iraq for a recent example of that.

[Pakpak]

Pakistan has 130 nukes by most conversative estimates. Even if half of them are lobbed at India that will destroy them completely.

[Lonewarrior]

LOL at "academic scenario"..
a "person" dont even know the difference between the yield & kt of the nukes which gt hit the two cities of japan and current pakistani nuke's kt & yield, so people can easily understand about his "academic scenario" is total crap.

pakistan unofficially have more thn 50+kt nuke bombs.
which means even one BM-MIRV escape from the so called "3 layered indian defence shield". it will be havoc.
and dont forgt that we have 2 different kind of cruise missiles series, including second-strike capability from the sea.

as i said before, dont be delusional , ask any defence analyst in the world. NO Defence shield/SAM system is invincible.

[CricketCartoons]

You "don't mind 500 million indians dying during attack by Pakistan"?

As for "it will leave the land inhabitable for the rest of us who will survive." how do you know that you, and everyone that you love and care about, won't be part of the "500 million dead Indians"?

In modern times, with globalisation and all that, the numbers killed as a direct result of military action form a fraction of the total number who's lives are destroyed due to hunger, disease, chaos, and anarchy that results. Just look at Iraq for a recent example of that.

Don't know why as a British and Pakistani (if you have dual citizenship) you are concerned about us Indians. Pakistan will not wipe out entire Indians, but will attack till India surrenders. Just targeting and destroying 10 cities would be enough for that. They will take Kashmir and will have a new govt which will follow their orders and treat us like a colony. We are more useful alive than dead. Anyway India had its golden age when we were ruled by Mughals, and Pakistan is the real inheritor of the Great Mughal lineage, and we will see a post war boom in India.

[KingKhanWC]

I nominate this as the worst post i have ever seen on PakPassion in my 5 years on this forum.

I don't want to get personal but this does say something about the way you think.

I call on all to add this to their signature.

[cricketjoshila]

CJ we will chck to make sure your account's not been hacked!

Having a bit of fun @MenInG .


I tell you what, in 50yrs there are more chances of me having Biryani in Lahore than having a nuke dropping on my head.