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  1. #1
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    "God save our gracious Queen": Atheists, how do you feel about singing this in public?

    This is not about any mumbo jumbo vis-a-vis "How many tourist £'s the Royal Family brings in",
    or "....it's only words...",
    or "....don't mean anything, don't take them literally...",
    or ".... it's better than having a President ...."

    Bearing in mind that the Queen is The Queen because, supposedly, "she is appointed by God", the question then arises how do Atheists, and non-Church of England Christians, or those of other faiths, feel about belting out in full voice a National Anthem consisting of words/phrases that literally appear to worship the Queen?

    "God save our gracious Queen,
    Long live our noble Queen,
    God save the Queen:
    Send her victorious,
    Happy and glorious,
    Long to reign over us:
    God save the Queen. "

    How do you think it looks from the perspective of foreigners that Britain ridicules as being "backward", "undemocratic", and "living in the Middle Ages"?

    And lastly, what other National Anthems can you think of that praise, almost worship, the ruler in a similar manner?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  2. #2
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    I’ll sing it to show solidarity with my countrymen.

    I think it’s a weak song though. We English should sing ‘Jerusalem’ instead which is more spiritually enriching, with a much better melody.

  3. #3
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    I doubt many English people give too much thought to the lyrics when they are singing the anthem. It's probably similar to Christmas which is more about presents, parties and Santa Claus these days than anything to do with Christianity.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I’ll sing it to show solidarity with my countrymen.

    I think it’s a weak song though. We English should sing ‘Jerusalem’ instead which is more spiritually enriching, with a much better melody.
    So you don't believe that the words coming out of your own mouth matter?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    So you don't believe that the words coming out of your own mouth matter?
    Not if you aren't the sort to overthink life.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I doubt many English people give too much thought to the lyrics when they are singing the anthem. It's probably similar to Christmas which is more about presents, parties and Santa Claus these days than anything to do with Christianity.
    I would have thought belting out "God save our gracious Queen", "Long to reign over us:" at the top of one's voice, especially if that's in public, would matter to many.

    I for one keep my mouth firmly shut when it's played, even in public. There's only so far one can go.

    And what about the other points mentioned in the OP?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Not if you aren't the sort to overthink life.
    Elaborate.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Elaborate.
    A lyric doesn't make your existence. Atheists are not really hardcore about their beliefs so they'll be done with it - if they have to sing this song in the first place - and move on to their next task in the day.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Not if you aren't the sort to overthink life.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    How do you think it looks from the perspective of foreigners that Britain ridicules as being "backward", "undemocratic", and "living in the Middle Ages"?

    And lastly, what other National Anthems can you think of that praise, almost worship, the ruler in a similar manner?
    Your views?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    How do you think it looks from the perspective of foreigners that Britain ridicules as being "backward", "undemocratic", and "living in the Middle Ages"?
    A song doesn't matter. This is literally the first thread I've seen on this subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    And lastly, what other National Anthems can you think of that praise, almost worship, the ruler in a similar manner?
    Beyond the lyrics, you can allege that the words of praise are more for the queen's chair rather than the queen of the time itself.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    A lyric doesn't make your existence. Atheists are not really hardcore about their beliefs so they'll be done with it - if they have to sing this song in the first place - and move on to their next task in the day.
    When it's just a song playing in the background or you're singing along to as a form of entertainment, I would agree with you.

    However, when it's in relation to a living, breathing individual, who also happens to be your head of state, the words are sung in a solemn manner usually on a formal occasion, and last but not least, by not uttering the words you are accused of being "unpatriotic" (as has happened with politicians and sportsmen/sportswomen), then it becomes a totally different matter.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  12. #12
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    just as much importance a muslim probably gives to it.

    Muslims only believe their religion is the only true religion and only their followers will go to jannat. And the queen being non muslim........... you get the point


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I would have thought belting out "God save our gracious Queen", "Long to reign over us:" at the top of one's voice, especially if that's in public, would matter to many.

    I for one keep my mouth firmly shut when it's played, even in public. There's only so far one can go.

    And what about the other points mentioned in the OP?
    I don't remember ever singing it to be honest, so I'm not even aware of the lyrics. If I was in a crowd singing it then I might just pretend to mumble along...probably like 90% of the rest in the crowd.

    From my days of reading the tabloid rags, I got the impression that most Brits prefer Land of Hope and Glory anyway. Although I think those lyrics are more about the glory and majesty of the British Empire rather than just the stuffy old Queen.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    However, when it's in relation to a living, breathing individual, who also happens to be your head of state, the words are sung in a solemn manner usually on a formal occasion, and last but not least, by not uttering the words you are accused of being "unpatriotic" (as has happened with politicians and sportsmen/sportswomen), then it becomes a totally different matter.
    Who gives a crapola. Just do it and get on with your day.

    Your post is exactly what I mean by overthinking life.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    just as much importance a muslim probably gives to it.

    Muslims only believe their religion is the only true religion and only their followers will go to jannat. And the queen being non muslim........... you get the point
    Had I used the word "Muslims" instead of "Atheists" in the thread title, the usual suspects would have gone off on a totally different tangent, thus negating the whole point of the thread, namely the words "God save our gracious Queen". Hence the choice of the thread title.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Who gives a crapola. Just do it and get on with your day.
    You obviously, considering you've spent some of your valuable time posting at least four posts in the thread.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    You obviously, considering you've spent some of your valuable time posting at least four posts in the thread.
    Not a bad comeback, but I hope you got the gist of the post.

    It's just a song.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    You obviously, considering you've spent some of your valuable time posting at least four posts in the thread.
    He's mainly just parroting my views from my first post anyway, not really sure why he thinks it needs repeating again and again. Unless he thinks my views are paramount....which of course they are since I'm actually British.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    So you don't believe that the words coming out of your own mouth matter?
    You're overthinking this. I don't much like the song, but I sing it out of respect, just as I would take my shoes off in a mosque. If and when they choose a different song I'll sing that.

  20. #20
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    God Save The Queen is an embarrassment whether you're an atheist or not !

    Amongst this dirge, there's an even a verse about crushing the rebellious Scots.

    At the very least, switch England's sporting national anthem to Jerusalem.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    God Save The Queen is an embarrassment whether you're an atheist or not !

    Amongst this dirge, there's an even a verse about crushing the rebellious Scots.

    At the very least, switch England's sporting national anthem to Jerusalem.
    There's a verse about crushing the rebellious Scots?! I'd have learned it off by heart if I'd known that!


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    There's a verse about crushing the rebellious Scots?! I'd have learned it off by heart if I'd known that!
    Verse six of six (we usually only sing verses one and three)....


    Lord grant that Marshal Wade
    May by thy mighty aid
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush,
    And like a torrent rush,
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the King!

  23. #23
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    Verse four is the best @Markhor:

    Not in this land alone,
    But be God’s mercies known,
    From shore to shore!
    Lord make the nations see,
    That men should brothers be,
    And form one family,
    The wide world over.

  24. #24
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    atheist celebrate Eid, Christmas, Easter, Diwali too

  25. #25
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    Rubbish song, Jerusalem is much better.

  26. #26
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    A lot of atheists only seem to be show their atheism, when denouncing religion. Most are happy to sing the national anthem, take part in Christmas, Easter etc.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  27. #27
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    I don't believe in a monarchy so I wouldn't sing along.


    Better luck next time

  28. #28
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    What happens when the Queen passes, do the Brits change their anthem?


    #Mein inko rolaonga

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    What happens when the Queen passes, do the Brits change their anthem?
    God save the King.

    Prince Charles or William. The Queen was very poorly recently, I think her innings is coming to an end soon.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    I don't believe in a monarchy so I wouldn't sing along.
    What if it was God save the Prime Minister?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    just as much importance a muslim probably gives to it.

    Muslims only believe their religion is the only true religion and only their followers will go to jannat. And the queen being non muslim........... you get the point
    No, that's not what Islam says.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    God save the King.

    Prince Charles or William. The Queen was very poorly recently, I think her innings is coming to an end soon.
    I agree. The handover to Charles has already begun in terms of public appearances. The same will be going on within the Palace as well. Historically this is what happens when a monarch's reign is drawing to a close.

    I think Elizabeth has another couple of years in her, tops. She may even abdicate if she continues to live for longer than that but becomes particularly frail.

    Charles has been waiting for so long!! He will be a happy man when he can finally don the Crown Jewels.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    God save the King.

    Prince Charles or William. The Queen was very poorly recently, I think her innings is coming to an end soon.
    Her mother made it to 102, but I think she will abdicate, having already passed Victoria as longest-serving monarch. 65 years now. It will make a lot of people sad as she has been a constant anchor in our lives.

    God save King Charles III. Though I think he might want to be called William V due to the negative historical connotations if the name Charles.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What if it was God save the Prime Minister?
    The PM would not be head of state in a republic - we would have to create an executive President.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Her mother made it to 102, but I think she will abdicate, having already passed Victoria as longest-serving monarch. 65 years now. It will make a lot of people sad as she has been a constant anchor in our lives.

    God save King Charles III. Though I think he might want to be called William V due to the negative historical connotations if the name Charles.
    Charles Philip Arthur George is his name. I have heard that William is another moniker that he is considering.

    I would absolutely love it if he called himself King Arthur. Nobody would be able to stop him and it would be awesome.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post

    I would absolutely love it if he called himself King Arthur. Nobody would be able to stop him and it would be awesome.


    THere nearly was a King Arthur once, Henry VIII's elder brother, who died young.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Her mother made it to 102, but I think she will abdicate, having already passed Victoria as longest-serving monarch. 65 years now. It will make a lot of people sad as she has been a constant anchor in our lives.

    God save King Charles III. Though I think he might want to be called William V due to the negative historical connotations if the name Charles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    The PM would not be head of state in a republic - we would have to create an executive President.
    She's been around for a long time sure but has been a passive monarch, basically following protocol and behaving within her limits. I think she should have used her status much more in highlighting the many issues the poor, weak face in the UK and around the world.

    Diana would have a great queen and I would happy sing the anthem for her.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    She's been around for a long time sure but has been a passive monarch, basically following protocol and behaving within her limits. I think she should have used her status much more in highlighting the many issues the poor, weak face in the UK and around the world.

    Diana would have a great queen and I would happy sing the anthem for her.
    Ah, well, the Monarch has to stick within protocol. Charles has been an environmental advocate but that will end when he takes the crown, I think.

  39. #39
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    Getting back to the other two points in the OP .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    How do you think it looks from the perspective of foreigners that Britain ridicules as being "backward", "undemocratic", and "living in the Middle Ages"?

    And lastly, what other National Anthems can you think of that praise, almost worship, the ruler in a similar manner?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  40. #40
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    I am sure most Britons simply do not care how it looks to non-Britons.

    Conflation of God with Monarch is a hangover from Middle Age thinking based on Platonic Christianity. It took a hit when Charles I got decapitated, and Britain entered the World Turned Upside Down period.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I am sure most Britons simply do not care how it looks to non-Britons. .
    The question posed is not what Britons think, but what those that Britons regard as being "backward", "undemocratic", and "living in the Middle Ages" think about Britons almost worshipping their hereditory head of state when uttering/singing the words of their National Anthem.

    One could therefore argue that the question is not even directed at such as yourself.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 16th November 2017 at 10:52.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    The question posed is not what Britons think, but what those that Britons regard as being "backward", "undemocratic", and "living in the Middle Ages" think about Britons almost worshipping their hereditory head of state when uttering/singing the words of their National Anthem.

    One could therefore argue that the question is not even directed at such as yourself.
    Are you asking about the views of backward or undemocratic nations? We can't really know that unless they comment on it. Obviously Brits themselves don't really care too much about their opinions anyway.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Are you asking about the views of backward or undemocratic nations? We can't really know that unless they comment on it. Obviously Brits themselves don't really care too much about their opinions anyway.
    "Don't do as we do, do as we say". Or something like that anyway.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    "Don't do as we do, do as we say". Or something like that anyway.
    I think developing nations are seen in a different light. It's like the caste or class system, one rule for us, another for them. We in the west are clearly superior so they need to take advice from us, not the other way round. The advice that makes sense for us would only make sense for them if they were equal, which they aren't. Hence First World and Third World categorisation.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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