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  1. #1
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    No wonder Test cricket is dying!

    Look at the current Adelaide test, all four innings are below 3 RPO. These teams need to take a look at England and Australia and start playing modern cricket, with modern scoring rates of 3.5 RPO+

    Nobody wants to watch this rubbish

  2. #2
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    I’m at the match.

    It is brilliant BECAUSE the scoring rate is low: neither team has been able to get too far ahead in the match.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I’m at the match.

    It is brilliant BECAUSE the scoring rate is low: neither team has been able to get too far ahead in the match.
    It's mainly because both teams have poor batting line up. England batting ends with Cook and Root and Aus with Smith and Warner.



  4. #4
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    Lovely thread.


    You gotta work until your idols become your rivals.

  5. #5
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    I have attended all three Adelaide Day/Night Tests.

    It’s a magical experience.

    The key - as Pakistan learned at Brisbane - is to bowl with a new ball in the first 90 minutes of the last session, as the floodlights take over from natural light.

    It’s why Australia collapsed last night, and is why I say Win The Toss, Bat First and Declare At Dinner.

    Rain distorted these patterns on Days 1 and 2.

    But seriously, this is what to do:

    First session: 100-3
    Second session: declare at 260-6.
    Third session: use the new ball under lights to reduce the opposition to 70-8.

    Then do the same on Day 2: declare at Dinner at 240-5, set the opposition 380 to win, reduce them to 70-6 at the close.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I have attended all three Adelaide Day/Night Tests.

    It’s a magical experience.

    The key - as Pakistan learned at Brisbane - is to bowl with a new ball in the first 90 minutes of the last session, as the floodlights take over from natural light.

    It’s why Australia collapsed last night, and is why I say Win The Toss, Bat First and Declare At Dinner.

    Rain distorted these patterns on Days 1 and 2.

    But seriously, this is what to do:

    First session: 100-3
    Second session: declare at 260-6.
    Third session: use the new ball under lights to reduce the opposition to 70-8.

    Then do the same on Day 2: declare at Dinner at 240-5, set the opposition 380 to win, reduce them to 70-6 at the close.
    And then SA vs Aus happens, last year, & you wake up

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    And then SA vs Aus happens, last year, & you wake up
    No, not at all.

    FAF declared an hour too late. The hard batting conditions are the first ninety minutes after Dinner, not the last sixty.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    No, not at all.

    FAF declared an hour too late. The hard batting conditions are the first ninety minutes after Dinner, not the last sixty.
    Weather is equally important, probably more so, I actually think Root did the right thing by bowling with overhead conditions & chance of rain on day 1. But his bowlers let him down on that day, of course depending on the result of this game he will be chastised or be the toast of England for the rest of the year, not unlike Smith & his non declaration.

    The point is cricket throws way too many curve balls at us to assume it's a straightforward game of chess. I'm hoping Root can pick himself up & England so that we see the rest of the series being contested hotly, with the decider at SCG breaking the deadlock.

  9. #9
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    This Ashes has been very boring so far. Batsmen have really found it hard to score runs. They have given Azhar Ali and Sami Aslam a run for their money.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    This Ashes has been very boring so far. Batsmen have really found it hard to score runs. They have given Azhar Ali and Sami Aslam a run for their money.
    How has it been boring? The first test was exciting till the 4th day and this one was a bit one sided but England have fought back, will be an intriguing last day.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    How has it been boring? The first test was exciting till the 4th day and this one was a bit one sided but England have fought back, will be an intriguing last day.
    Hard to watch when batsmen are not even willing to play shots.

  12. #12
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    I prefer this style of test where both teams haven't been able to get away convincingly and even its been a low scoring game the excitement is still their as even on the 5th day we are wondering who will take it. 500 plus runs innings is actually very boring for me to watch.

  13. #13
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    On the contrary, this is very good advertisement for tests. There was some very intriguing cricket played in this test.

    But what was disappointing, was the half empty stadium post dinner when some of the best cricket was on display. Not sure how much crowd was there earlier in the day as I did not watch. But was the case on days 2,3 and 4.

  14. #14
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    I found the match boring tbh, the only interesting parts of the match were when the ball was moving around. Otherwise the game was moving at a snails pace or dull for most parts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I have attended all three Adelaide Day/Night Tests.

    It’s a magical experience.

    The key - as Pakistan learned at Brisbane - is to bowl with a new ball in the first 90 minutes of the last session, as the floodlights take over from natural light.

    It’s why Australia collapsed last night, and is why I say Win The Toss, Bat First and Declare At Dinner.

    Rain distorted these patterns on Days 1 and 2.

    But seriously, this is what to do:

    First session: 100-3
    Second session: declare at 260-6.
    Third session: use the new ball under lights to reduce the opposition to 70-8.

    Then do the same on Day 2: declare at Dinner at 240-5, set the opposition 380 to win, reduce them to 70-6 at the close.
    Tests are dying.

    The slow scoring is only going to force more people out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Tests are dying.

    The slow scoring is only going to force more people out.
    200,000 people watched this test match at the ground.

    That's twice the population of Dunedin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    200,000 people watched this test match at the ground.

    That's twice the population of Dunedin.
    Well, it's dying everywhere else. You can't really have a format with 3 countries playing either.

    These slow games in the long run are harmful as they will force fans out.

    One every now and then is fine, but if this becomes the norm, yeah those numbers are going to dwindle.
    Last edited by Aman; 6th December 2017 at 08:12.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  18. #18
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    I haven't enjoyed any of the Test series going on atm.

    Cannot wait for the LOIs to start, those are usually more competitive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    200,000 people watched this test match at the ground.

    That's twice the population of Dunedin.
    Yet the gate receipts are dwarfed by anything shown on TV or the internet these days. Therefore TV, or streaming in the future, will always dictate how cricket pans out, even tests.

    Also do you have some info on what's the price Sony paid for (Aus) telecast rights for much of Asia? I ask because I have a feeling the increase in $ amount might've been substantial.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Yet the gate receipts are dwarfed by anything shown on TV or the internet these days. Therefore TV, or streaming in the future, will always dictate how cricket pans out, even tests.

    Also do you have some info on what's the price Sony paid for (Aus) telecast rights for much of Asia? I ask because I have a feeling the increase in $ amount might've been substantial.
    Yeah and I imagine these tests are rating quite well as well.

    As for the figures from memory the deal was only signed in October?
    We'll have to wait until the CA end of financial year reports.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Yeah and I imagine these tests are rating quite well as well.

    As for the figures from memory the deal was only signed in October?
    We'll have to wait until the CA end of financial year reports.
    Long term there are doubts over the survival of the format and you know it.

    NZ is one of the first to cut their schedule down, others willl follow suit to the point the likes of NZ, Pakistan, WI, SL and possibly SA are playing 3-4 Tests a year (eventually none - it's going to happen).

    All of those countries take massive losses to host a Test (not sure about SA).

    They'll only accept tours to Aus, India and England as they're lucrative but wont put up much of a fight because of how little Test cricket they play.
    Last edited by Aman; 6th December 2017 at 08:25.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Long term there are doubts over the survival of the format and you know it.

    NZ is one of the first to cut their schedule down, others willl follow suit to the point the likes of NZ, Pakistan, WI, SL and possibly SA are playing 3-4 Tests a year (eventually none - it's going to happen).

    All of those countries take massive losses to host a Test (not sure about SA).

    They'll only accept tours to Aus, India and England as they're lucrative but wont put up much of a fight because of how little Test cricket they play.
    You are spot on right. It's the reality. Everyone knows it. But people (test fans) do not want/refuse to accept it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by USofA View Post
    You are spot on right. It's the reality. Everyone knows it. But people (test fans) do not want/refuse to accept it.
    I actually want us to cut it out entirely so we have first mover advantage lol.

    Could focus on LOI and do our best in winning some LOI trophies will others have to worry about 3 formats.

    There's no point focusing on 2 formats and half assing another. You're not going to achieve anything in (Tests) if you're not all in it.

    This is the moment for NZC to seize the initiative and grow the sport in the country. Tests won't do it and we all know it.

    NZC is known as the most astute cricketing board, the fact they've done it gives you an idea that it makes sense. The others will no doubt follow NZ. They don't want to lose $500,000 US per Test. They'd rather play LOIs and make money.
    Last edited by Aman; 6th December 2017 at 08:35.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by USofA View Post
    You are spot on right. It's the reality. Everyone knows it. But people (test fans) do not want/refuse to accept it.
    I was against it at first to, but now the numbers out, it's hard to think its feesible. I completley understand why they're cutting them down.

    I hope NZC eventually do away with them, start a T20 league (hopefully with the support of the BCCI/Indian businessmen) and play more LOI cricket over the year.
    Last edited by Aman; 6th December 2017 at 08:39.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I’m at the match.

    It is brilliant BECAUSE the scoring rate is low: neither team has been able to get too far ahead in the match.
    I think you missed the OP's sarcasm. He is well aware that this has been an excellent Test match. This thread is nothing but a slight dig at the posters who commentate during Pak's matches (especially those in the UAE). Read any recent commentary thread and you will see countless posts criticising Pak batsmen SR's and accusations being thrown on Day 1 how the team is playing for a draw, they should play more attacking cricket like Australia, England etc.

    Hilarious thread btw @BigMac

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I actually want us to cut it out entirely so we have first mover advantage lol.

    Could focus on LOI and do our best in winning some LOI trophies will others have to worry about 3 formats.

    There's no point focusing on 2 formats and half assing another. You're not going to achieve anything in (Tests) if you're not all in it.

    This is the moment for NZC to seize the initiative and grow the sport in the country. Tests won't do it and we all know it.

    NZC is known as the most astute cricketing board, the fact they've done it gives you an idea that it makes sense. The others will no doubt follow NZ. They don't want to lose $500,000 US per Test. They'd rather play LOIs and make money.
    Yeah they proved that with Shane Bond.

    They might be in NZ but not in the real world, how did you react to them hiring Buchs.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I actually want us to cut it out entirely so we have first mover advantage lol.

    Could focus on LOI and do our best in winning some LOI trophies will others have to worry about 3 formats.

    There's no point focusing on 2 formats and half assing another. You're not going to achieve anything in (Tests) if you're not all in it.

    This is the moment for NZC to seize the initiative and grow the sport in the country. Tests won't do it and we all know it.

    NZC is known as the most astute cricketing board, the fact they've done it gives you an idea that it makes sense. The others will no doubt follow NZ. They don't want to lose $500,000 US per Test. They'd rather play LOIs and make money.
    Eliminating tests would definitely cut NZC losses, not mention "path breaking"! But I have seen good crowds for tests in NZ. This year will be bad because of WI.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by USofA View Post
    Eliminating tests would definitely cut NZC losses, not mention "path breaking"! But I have seen good crowds for tests in NZ. This year will be bad because of WI.
    Would make room for other things like a T20 league too, which is actually something that would grow the sport in NZ.

    The BBL has made me envious, I would love to have something like that in NZ.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah they proved that with Shane Bond.

    They might be in NZ but not in the real world, how did you react to them hiring Buchs.
    I didn't give that label to NZC, it's a label that's been given to them.
    Last edited by Aman; 6th December 2017 at 08:59.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFM View Post
    I think you missed the OP's sarcasm. He is well aware that this has been an excellent Test match. This thread is nothing but a slight dig at the posters who commentate during Pak's matches (especially those in the UAE). Read any recent commentary thread and you will see countless posts criticising Pak batsmen SR's and accusations being thrown on Day 1 how the team is playing for a draw, they should play more attacking cricket like Australia, England etc.

    Hilarious thread btw @BigMac

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Would make room for other things like a T20 league too, which is actually something that would grow the sport in NZ.

    The BBL has made me envious, I would love to have something like that in NZ.
    The Gregory Pie Super Smash is airing in India this year, so that's a sign of progress I guess.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Would make room for other things like a T20 league too, which is actually something that would grow the sport in NZ.

    The BBL has made me envious, I would love to have something like that in NZ.
    Like Canada in North America, they should add NZ in BBL - say 4 teams Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch & Dunedin/Hamilton joins BBL with 12 AUS franchise.

    I don’t think even a stand alone T20 League will survive in NZ (in modern economic scales, otherwise Hadlee, Crowe played cricket & NZC survived without T20 for almost a century).

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Like Canada in North America, they should add NZ in BBL - say 4 teams Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch & Dunedin/Hamilton joins BBL with 12 AUS franchise.

    I don’t think even a stand alone T20 League will survive in NZ (in modern economic scales, otherwise Hadlee, Crowe played cricket & NZC survived without T20 for almost a century).
    That would be great, but at best we'll get one or two teams.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    That would be great, but at best we'll get one or two teams.
    That depends not only in economy, standard/popularity of the game as well. For example, in NBA there is only 1 Canadian team out of 30 (Vancouver franchise went to Memphis after few years); only 1 MLB team our if 30 (Montreal Expose went back to USA in Washington); 3 MSL team out of 20 they’ll add 2 more when MSL reaches 24 teams); no NFL team at least till 2020 (Toronto is trying to buy one existing one). But, out of 24 (?) teams, 7 are Canadian and they are doing damn good in NHL.

    I think, between AUS/NZ - 12/4 is a perfect ratio with 2 levels/conference in BBL.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    That depends not only in economy, standard/popularity of the game as well. For example, in NBA there is only 1 Canadian team out of 30 (Vancouver franchise went to Memphis after few years); only 1 MLB team our if 30 (Montreal Expose went back to USA in Washington); 3 MSL team out of 20 they’ll add 2 more when MSL reaches 24 teams); no NFL team at least till 2020 (Toronto is trying to buy one existing one). But, out of 24 (?) teams, 7 are Canadian and they are doing damn good in NHL.

    I think, between AUS/NZ - 12/4 is a perfect ratio with 2 levels/conference in BBL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    That would be great, but at best we'll get one or two teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Like Canada in North America, they should add NZ in BBL - say 4 teams Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch & Dunedin/Hamilton joins BBL with 12 AUS franchise.

    I don’t think even a stand alone T20 League will survive in NZ (in modern economic scales, otherwise Hadlee, Crowe played cricket & NZC survived without T20 for almost a century).
    What is in it for Australia? Nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    What is in it for Australia? Nothing.
    There is - if NZ can compete in both front. Today, Raptors & Blue Jays are top 2 teams in NBA & MLB after starting in mid 90s & 80s. Raptors vs Bulls/Knicks/Celtics/Cavs/Pistons are among most attended games in eastern conference in both side of the border. While, Jays vs Yankees/Red Sox are becoming among top viewed series. Not to mention NHL games.

    Obviously, Kiwis have to match $ for $, but they have enough players. Incremental money is always better - this can make BBL stronger when several franchise will start to fight for their pie (in terms of players & schedule)
    Last edited by MMHS; 6th December 2017 at 11:56.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    What is in it for Australia? Nothing.
    Another market for the investors with the possibility of more NZ fans supporting their home team rather than just the diehard cricket fans following the league in Australia.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I haven't enjoyed any of the Test series going on atm.

    Cannot wait for the LOIs to start, those are usually more competitive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Would make room for other things like a T20 league too, which is actually something that would grow the sport in NZ.

    The BBL has made me envious, I would love to have something like that in NZ.
    There are so many T20 leagues now. What I would like to see is an international 40 over ODI league.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    What is in it for Australia? Nothing.
    True, we'd probably end up dominating the tournament anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Test cricket's viability won't be determined by the Ashes. That's like determining the future of ODIs based on IND-PAK matches.

    The popularity of this series has always been there.

    The problem has more to do with every other test playing country minus AUS, ENG, and IND. Their bottom line is getting hurt big time and it's almost become a "pay to play" situation where the monetary loss is guaranteed.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    Test cricket's viability won't be determined by the Ashes. That's like determining the future of ODIs based on IND-PAK matches.

    The popularity of this series has always been there.

    The problem has more to do with every other test playing country minus AUS, ENG, and IND. Their bottom line is getting hurt big time and it's almost become a "pay to play" situation where the monetary loss is guaranteed.
    I knew it was over when the numbers came out, it's not sustainable whatsoever.

    In India, they make more from a T20 than they do from 5 days of Test cricket so don't be surprised if India decide to cut down on Tests once the others give way. They'll play Aus and India, and maybe SA, but that'll be it.
    Last edited by Aman; 6th December 2017 at 13:25.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I knew it was over when the numbers came out, it's not sustainable whatsoever.

    In India, they make more from a T20 than they do from 5 days of Test cricket so don't be surprised if India decide to cut down on Tests once the others give way. They'll play Aus and England, and maybe SA, but that'll be it.
    England*

    I don't know where the Test championship stands with this. It'll be interesting to see what the likes of Pakistan, SL, WI and SA do with their schedules next.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I knew it was over when the numbers came out, it's not sustainable whatsoever.

    In India, they make more from a T20 than they do from 5 days of Test cricket so don't be surprised if India decide to cut down on Tests once the others give way. They'll play Aus and India, and maybe SA, but that'll be it.
    Yes, no question tests are not financially viable for most, including BCCI. BCCI is able to sustain because of their financial strength. Only Aus and Eng at this point.

    Can you imagine a SL vs WI test series, and the amount of $$ loss.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    There is - if NZ can compete in both front. Today, Raptors & Blue Jays are top 2 teams in NBA & MLB after starting in mid 90s & 80s. Raptors vs Bulls/Knicks/Celtics/Cavs/Pistons are among most attended games in eastern conference in both side of the border. While, Jays vs Yankees/Red Sox are becoming among top viewed series. Not to mention NHL games.

    Obviously, Kiwis have to match $ for $, but they have enough players. Incremental money is always better - this can make BBL stronger when several franchise will start to fight for their pie (in terms of players & schedule)
    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Another market for the investors with the possibility of more NZ fans supporting their home team rather than just the diehard cricket fans following the league in Australia.
    NHL is a bad example - Canada provides twice as many players as America does. Popularity of hockey in Canada is much more than in the USA. The Aus-NZ comparison would be rugby union where a hypothetical 12 team trans-tasman would probably be 7 NZ and 5 Aus.

    In the other leagues Toronto is the only Canadian city with a team. Toronto is also a metropolitan area of over 6 million people and is only smaller than five US metropolitan areas - New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Houston.

    NA sporting leagues are also ran completely different. They are private organisations ran solely for profit with teams owned by businessman and often relocating for profits. Each of the major NA leagues is also the highest level of that sport.

    On the other hand the BBL is run entirely by CA which owns (through the state cricket association) every singel franchise. The BBL is also meant to be a level below international cricket as shown by CA not freeing the likes of Smith, Warner and Starc to play BBL.
    Shaun Marsh is Perth's best batsman and he was pulled from the BBL final in order to go to New Zealand early to prepare for a 3 match ODI series that CA considered so irrelevant that neither Smith or Warner played. That wouldn't have happened if CA meant for BBL to be the top level of cricket in Australia.
    CA gets all the revenue from BBL.

    The aims of the BBL are as follows - 1. get more kids interested into cricket again (especially those from outside of the traditional anglo-celtic background) 2. provide revenue and profile for domestic cricketers to make cricket more attractive than AFL as a career. Most good athletes in VIC, SA and WA play both AFL and cricket as kids and in the end more choose to play in the AFL than play cricket. Mitch Marsh and Will Sutherland (son of James Sutherland) the notable exceptions.
    Revenue is also important but given CA was willing to accept a much smaller offer from Channel 10 last tv rights deal in order to get BBL on free to air tv every day its clearly not the main priority.

    Now the last BBL team had 8 rounds with each team playing the other seven teams and then having an extra match against its "rival". This means that the logical extension for the BBL is just to increase the number of rounds until it is a 14 round home and way system. That would be the easiest way to increase the content.

    But lets say what if BBL wants to expand by bringing in more clubs.

    Its got to be noted that the only thing New Zealand can offer is revenue* and expanding the player pool. Now revenue is also iffy because CA would have to share any revenue from NZ sides with New Zealand (otherwise why would New Zealand agree). Not only is cricket a much smaller sport in NZ than in Australia but the population is much smaller and while Australian fans love Aus v NZ rivalry they don't care about Australian cities v NZ cities let alone NZ cities v NZ cities. A match between two Australian sides will always get more neutral Australian fans watching. State v State rivalry is the big thing in Australia (with the capital city often being equated with the state eg Perth v Adelaide is Western Australia v South Australia).

    New Zealand has a population of 4.8 million people. The population of Sydney is over 5 million and the population of Melbourne is 4.7 million (and will overtake both New Zealand and Sydney soon). The population of Queensland is 4.9 million people.

    So lets look at the possible franchise locations in Aus/NZ

    Code:
    #   City           State/Country       Population
    1.  Sydney         New South Wales     5,029,768
    2.  Melbourne      Victoria            4,725,316
    3.  Brisbane       Queensland          2,360,241
    4.  Perth          Western Australia   2,022,044
    5.  Auckland       New Zealand         1,534,700
    6.  Adelaide       South Australia     1,324,279
    7.  Gold Coast     Queensland            646,983
    8.  Newcastle      New South Wales       436,171
    9.  Canberra       ACT                   435,019
    10. Wellington     New Zealand           412,500
    11. Christchurch   New Zealand           396,700
    12. Hamilton       New Zealand           235,900
    13. Sunshine Coast Queensland            317,404
    14. Wollongong     New South Wales       295,669
    15. Hobart         Tasmania              224,462
    16. Geelong        Victoria              192,393
    17. Townsville     Queensland            178,864
    18. Cairns         Queensland            150,041
    19. Darwin         Northern Territory    145,916
    20. Tauranga       New Zealand           137,900
    21. Napier         New Zealand           133,000
    22. Dunedin        New Zealand           120,200
    We'll ignore the fact that logically Melbourne and Sydney could support 3-4 teams each and Perth and probably Brisbane and Adelaide could support 2. In any case I am 90%+ convinced if CA were to bring in new franchises they would be from new cities.

    This list has every city in Aus/NZ that has a population than Dunedin. I picked Dunedin because due to cultural and historical reasons it would likely be the hypothetical fourth NZ franchise. Given that its got a very low population and there are no less than 15 teams on that list with larger populations that don't have a team it would never be considered for a BBL franchise. Hamilton would be the other option and its larger than Hobart which does have a franchise but Hamilton would never be considered either. The only reason Hobart has a BBL team is because Tasmania have a Sheffield Shield side and every Sheffield Shield team got a BBL franchise.

    Realistically speaking we can rule out almost every city smaller than Christchurch from being considered for a franchise (there are two exceptions to this in Geelong and Townsville but I'd go into that later).

    My belief is that within a decade Canberra and the Gold Coast will have BBL teams. Both are hosting BBL matches this year. Gold Coast, Canberra and Newcastle are quite sizable. Gold Coast has the benefit of setting up a South Queensland rivalry with Brisbane and South Queensland region has a population of 3.4 million people. The Gold Coast is hosting the 2018 Commonwealth Games and due to the AFL already has a 25,000 seater oval stadium that is suitable for hosting cricket.
    The Canberra stadium is smaller but has already hosted ODIs and BBL finals and would get government funding to improve the stadium if it got a franchise already.
    Newcastle has the population (Hunter Valley has well over 600,000 people) and a strong regional identity and would be a good candidate but unfortunately due to not being an AFL town it doesn't have a suitable stadium so would be behind Canberra and Gold Coast.

    Now Auckland is the elephant in the room. Honestly speaking if NZ were satisfied with having only one BBL franchise then Auckland would probably get a team ASAP. However having teams in the BBL would forever relegate any domestic NZ competition to second rate so realistically NZ would be foolish to agree to enter only one team. NZ can only accept three teams - Auckland, Christchurch and Wellington otherwise it won't have an acceptable national footprint.

    But unfortunately Christchurch and Wellington offer near nothing to Australia.

    I think eventually (eg 20+ years down the track) there will be Newcastle and a second Perth team and that will be it.

    Actually Geelong and Townsville would also be ahead of Christchurch and Wellington. Both are smaller in population but have a proven track record in supporting professional sports leagues (The Geelong Cats have twice the average attendance of any NZ super rugby side).

    If they were to want to go past 12 teams that would be it but I can't see why they'd do that because at that point franchise cricket has become the main thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  45. #45
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    Test cricket is dying or losing popularity for a simple reason that it is too long.. Earlier global sports were not popular and on TV only cricket matches used to be shown nowadays with 20 sports channels and global leagues and fast paced life of people they have plenty of alternatives to watch rather than test cricket.. Not just sports but there are plenty of movie channels and entertainment channels which show plenty of content which is an alternative for test cricket.. The popularity can’t really be revived but it will still survive..

  46. #46
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    Test cricket will eventually die irrespective of the run rate. 5 days will simply be too much in the world of tomorrow.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    NHL is a bad example - Canada provides twice as many players as America does. Popularity of hockey in Canada is much more than in the USA. The Aus-NZ comparison would be rugby union where a hypothetical 12 team trans-tasman would probably be 7 NZ and 5 Aus.

    In the other leagues Toronto is the only Canadian city with a team. Toronto is also a metropolitan area of over 6 million people and is only smaller than five US metropolitan areas - New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Houston.

    NA sporting leagues are also ran completely different. They are private organisations ran solely for profit with teams owned by businessman and often relocating for profits. Each of the major NA leagues is also the highest level of that sport.

    On the other hand the BBL is run entirely by CA which owns (through the state cricket association) every singel franchise. The BBL is also meant to be a level below international cricket as shown by CA not freeing the likes of Smith, Warner and Starc to play BBL.
    Shaun Marsh is Perth's best batsman and he was pulled from the BBL final in order to go to New Zealand early to prepare for a 3 match ODI series that CA considered so irrelevant that neither Smith or Warner played. That wouldn't have happened if CA meant for BBL to be the top level of cricket in Australia.
    CA gets all the revenue from BBL.

    The aims of the BBL are as follows - 1. get more kids interested into cricket again (especially those from outside of the traditional anglo-celtic background) 2. provide revenue and profile for domestic cricketers to make cricket more attractive than AFL as a career. Most good athletes in VIC, SA and WA play both AFL and cricket as kids and in the end more choose to play in the AFL than play cricket. Mitch Marsh and Will Sutherland (son of James Sutherland) the notable exceptions.
    Revenue is also important but given CA was willing to accept a much smaller offer from Channel 10 last tv rights deal in order to get BBL on free to air tv every day its clearly not the main priority.

    Now the last BBL team had 8 rounds with each team playing the other seven teams and then having an extra match against its "rival". This means that the logical extension for the BBL is just to increase the number of rounds until it is a 14 round home and way system. That would be the easiest way to increase the content.

    But lets say what if BBL wants to expand by bringing in more clubs.

    Its got to be noted that the only thing New Zealand can offer is revenue* and expanding the player pool. Now revenue is also iffy because CA would have to share any revenue from NZ sides with New Zealand (otherwise why would New Zealand agree). Not only is cricket a much smaller sport in NZ than in Australia but the population is much smaller and while Australian fans love Aus v NZ rivalry they don't care about Australian cities v NZ cities let alone NZ cities v NZ cities. A match between two Australian sides will always get more neutral Australian fans watching. State v State rivalry is the big thing in Australia (with the capital city often being equated with the state eg Perth v Adelaide is Western Australia v South Australia).

    New Zealand has a population of 4.8 million people. The population of Sydney is over 5 million and the population of Melbourne is 4.7 million (and will overtake both New Zealand and Sydney soon). The population of Queensland is 4.9 million people.

    So lets look at the possible franchise locations in Aus/NZ

    Code:
    #   City           State/Country       Population
    1.  Sydney         New South Wales     5,029,768
    2.  Melbourne      Victoria            4,725,316
    3.  Brisbane       Queensland          2,360,241
    4.  Perth          Western Australia   2,022,044
    5.  Auckland       New Zealand         1,534,700
    6.  Adelaide       South Australia     1,324,279
    7.  Gold Coast     Queensland            646,983
    8.  Newcastle      New South Wales       436,171
    9.  Canberra       ACT                   435,019
    10. Wellington     New Zealand           412,500
    11. Christchurch   New Zealand           396,700
    12. Hamilton       New Zealand           235,900
    13. Sunshine Coast Queensland            317,404
    14. Wollongong     New South Wales       295,669
    15. Hobart         Tasmania              224,462
    16. Geelong        Victoria              192,393
    17. Townsville     Queensland            178,864
    18. Cairns         Queensland            150,041
    19. Darwin         Northern Territory    145,916
    20. Tauranga       New Zealand           137,900
    21. Napier         New Zealand           133,000
    22. Dunedin        New Zealand           120,200
    We'll ignore the fact that logically Melbourne and Sydney could support 3-4 teams each and Perth and probably Brisbane and Adelaide could support 2. In any case I am 90%+ convinced if CA were to bring in new franchises they would be from new cities.

    This list has every city in Aus/NZ that has a population than Dunedin. I picked Dunedin because due to cultural and historical reasons it would likely be the hypothetical fourth NZ franchise. Given that its got a very low population and there are no less than 15 teams on that list with larger populations that don't have a team it would never be considered for a BBL franchise. Hamilton would be the other option and its larger than Hobart which does have a franchise but Hamilton would never be considered either. The only reason Hobart has a BBL team is because Tasmania have a Sheffield Shield side and every Sheffield Shield team got a BBL franchise.

    Realistically speaking we can rule out almost every city smaller than Christchurch from being considered for a franchise (there are two exceptions to this in Geelong and Townsville but I'd go into that later).

    My belief is that within a decade Canberra and the Gold Coast will have BBL teams. Both are hosting BBL matches this year. Gold Coast, Canberra and Newcastle are quite sizable. Gold Coast has the benefit of setting up a South Queensland rivalry with Brisbane and South Queensland region has a population of 3.4 million people. The Gold Coast is hosting the 2018 Commonwealth Games and due to the AFL already has a 25,000 seater oval stadium that is suitable for hosting cricket.
    The Canberra stadium is smaller but has already hosted ODIs and BBL finals and would get government funding to improve the stadium if it got a franchise already.
    Newcastle has the population (Hunter Valley has well over 600,000 people) and a strong regional identity and would be a good candidate but unfortunately due to not being an AFL town it doesn't have a suitable stadium so would be behind Canberra and Gold Coast.

    Now Auckland is the elephant in the room. Honestly speaking if NZ were satisfied with having only one BBL franchise then Auckland would probably get a team ASAP. However having teams in the BBL would forever relegate any domestic NZ competition to second rate so realistically NZ would be foolish to agree to enter only one team. NZ can only accept three teams - Auckland, Christchurch and Wellington otherwise it won't have an acceptable national footprint.

    But unfortunately Christchurch and Wellington offer near nothing to Australia.

    I think eventually (eg 20+ years down the track) there will be Newcastle and a second Perth team and that will be it.

    Actually Geelong and Townsville would also be ahead of Christchurch and Wellington. Both are smaller in population but have a proven track record in supporting professional sports leagues (The Geelong Cats have twice the average attendance of any NZ super rugby side).

    If they were to want to go past 12 teams that would be it but I can't see why they'd do that because at that point franchise cricket has become the main thing.
    Good post. I suppose NZ is to Australia what Canada is to the US. Maybe like Toronto, Auckland is the only city that can support a T20 team. NZ can still have other domestic tournaments as the BBL window is small and should not affect the status quo.

    In any case, as others have stated test cricket is dying and the smaller boards would have to find collaborative ways to stay competitive and profitable.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    NHL is a bad example - Canada provides twice as many players as America does. Popularity of hockey in Canada is much more than in the USA. The Aus-NZ comparison would be rugby union where a hypothetical 12 team trans-tasman would probably be 7 NZ and 5 Aus.

    In the other leagues Toronto is the only Canadian city with a team. Toronto is also a metropolitan area of over 6 million people and is only smaller than five US metropolitan areas - New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Houston.

    NA sporting leagues are also ran completely different. They are private organisations ran solely for profit with teams owned by businessman and often relocating for profits. Each of the major NA leagues is also the highest level of that sport.

    On the other hand the BBL is run entirely by CA which owns (through the state cricket association) every singel franchise. The BBL is also meant to be a level below international cricket as shown by CA not freeing the likes of Smith, Warner and Starc to play BBL.
    Shaun Marsh is Perth's best batsman and he was pulled from the BBL final in order to go to New Zealand early to prepare for a 3 match ODI series that CA considered so irrelevant that neither Smith or Warner played. That wouldn't have happened if CA meant for BBL to be the top level of cricket in Australia.
    CA gets all the revenue from BBL.

    The aims of the BBL are as follows - 1. get more kids interested into cricket again (especially those from outside of the traditional anglo-celtic background) 2. provide revenue and profile for domestic cricketers to make cricket more attractive than AFL as a career. Most good athletes in VIC, SA and WA play both AFL and cricket as kids and in the end more choose to play in the AFL than play cricket. Mitch Marsh and Will Sutherland (son of James Sutherland) the notable exceptions.
    Revenue is also important but given CA was willing to accept a much smaller offer from Channel 10 last tv rights deal in order to get BBL on free to air tv every day its clearly not the main priority.

    Now the last BBL team had 8 rounds with each team playing the other seven teams and then having an extra match against its "rival". This means that the logical extension for the BBL is just to increase the number of rounds until it is a 14 round home and way system. That would be the easiest way to increase the content.

    But lets say what if BBL wants to expand by bringing in more clubs.

    Its got to be noted that the only thing New Zealand can offer is revenue* and expanding the player pool. Now revenue is also iffy because CA would have to share any revenue from NZ sides with New Zealand (otherwise why would New Zealand agree). Not only is cricket a much smaller sport in NZ than in Australia but the population is much smaller and while Australian fans love Aus v NZ rivalry they don't care about Australian cities v NZ cities let alone NZ cities v NZ cities. A match between two Australian sides will always get more neutral Australian fans watching. State v State rivalry is the big thing in Australia (with the capital city often being equated with the state eg Perth v Adelaide is Western Australia v South Australia).

    New Zealand has a population of 4.8 million people. The population of Sydney is over 5 million and the population of Melbourne is 4.7 million (and will overtake both New Zealand and Sydney soon). The population of Queensland is 4.9 million people.

    So lets look at the possible franchise locations in Aus/NZ

    Code:
    #   City           State/Country       Population
    1.  Sydney         New South Wales     5,029,768
    2.  Melbourne      Victoria            4,725,316
    3.  Brisbane       Queensland          2,360,241
    4.  Perth          Western Australia   2,022,044
    5.  Auckland       New Zealand         1,534,700
    6.  Adelaide       South Australia     1,324,279
    7.  Gold Coast     Queensland            646,983
    8.  Newcastle      New South Wales       436,171
    9.  Canberra       ACT                   435,019
    10. Wellington     New Zealand           412,500
    11. Christchurch   New Zealand           396,700
    12. Hamilton       New Zealand           235,900
    13. Sunshine Coast Queensland            317,404
    14. Wollongong     New South Wales       295,669
    15. Hobart         Tasmania              224,462
    16. Geelong        Victoria              192,393
    17. Townsville     Queensland            178,864
    18. Cairns         Queensland            150,041
    19. Darwin         Northern Territory    145,916
    20. Tauranga       New Zealand           137,900
    21. Napier         New Zealand           133,000
    22. Dunedin        New Zealand           120,200
    We'll ignore the fact that logically Melbourne and Sydney could support 3-4 teams each and Perth and probably Brisbane and Adelaide could support 2. In any case I am 90%+ convinced if CA were to bring in new franchises they would be from new cities.

    This list has every city in Aus/NZ that has a population than Dunedin. I picked Dunedin because due to cultural and historical reasons it would likely be the hypothetical fourth NZ franchise. Given that its got a very low population and there are no less than 15 teams on that list with larger populations that don't have a team it would never be considered for a BBL franchise. Hamilton would be the other option and its larger than Hobart which does have a franchise but Hamilton would never be considered either. The only reason Hobart has a BBL team is because Tasmania have a Sheffield Shield side and every Sheffield Shield team got a BBL franchise.

    Realistically speaking we can rule out almost every city smaller than Christchurch from being considered for a franchise (there are two exceptions to this in Geelong and Townsville but I'd go into that later).

    My belief is that within a decade Canberra and the Gold Coast will have BBL teams. Both are hosting BBL matches this year. Gold Coast, Canberra and Newcastle are quite sizable. Gold Coast has the benefit of setting up a South Queensland rivalry with Brisbane and South Queensland region has a population of 3.4 million people. The Gold Coast is hosting the 2018 Commonwealth Games and due to the AFL already has a 25,000 seater oval stadium that is suitable for hosting cricket.
    The Canberra stadium is smaller but has already hosted ODIs and BBL finals and would get government funding to improve the stadium if it got a franchise already.
    Newcastle has the population (Hunter Valley has well over 600,000 people) and a strong regional identity and would be a good candidate but unfortunately due to not being an AFL town it doesn't have a suitable stadium so would be behind Canberra and Gold Coast.

    Now Auckland is the elephant in the room. Honestly speaking if NZ were satisfied with having only one BBL franchise then Auckland would probably get a team ASAP. However having teams in the BBL would forever relegate any domestic NZ competition to second rate so realistically NZ would be foolish to agree to enter only one team. NZ can only accept three teams - Auckland, Christchurch and Wellington otherwise it won't have an acceptable national footprint.

    But unfortunately Christchurch and Wellington offer near nothing to Australia.

    I think eventually (eg 20+ years down the track) there will be Newcastle and a second Perth team and that will be it.

    Actually Geelong and Townsville would also be ahead of Christchurch and Wellington. Both are smaller in population but have a proven track record in supporting professional sports leagues (The Geelong Cats have twice the average attendance of any NZ super rugby side).

    If they were to want to go past 12 teams that would be it but I can't see why they'd do that because at that point franchise cricket has become the main thing.
    Thanks for the detailed response. I didn't have all the facts, but now the number tells probably 3 Kiwi team is max that can be accommodated. However, like NHL, despite tiny population Canadian cities are doing great because of the quality of the players; similarly NZ in terms of cricketers' quality actually much richer than what Canada is to USA for NBA or MLB. Combined sports (quality) & economy, I think 2, even 3 Kiwi team definitely can make it and these 3 Cities have International Airport as well.

    By the way, Toronto as a City, is the 3rd largest City proper in North America in terms of population (After Mexico City & NY), and probably 2nd (or 3rd) largest city economy after NY (& LA). Cricket is big in GTA - it's actually possible to run a GTA Franchise League here.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Thanks for the detailed response. I didn't have all the facts, but now the number tells probably 3 Kiwi team is max that can be accommodated. However, like NHL, despite tiny population Canadian cities are doing great because of the quality of the players; similarly NZ in terms of cricketers' quality actually much richer than what Canada is to USA for NBA or MLB. Combined sports (quality) & economy, I think 2, even 3 Kiwi team definitely can make it and these 3 Cities have International Airport as well.

    By the way, Toronto as a City, is the 3rd largest City proper in North America in terms of population (After Mexico City & NY), and probably 2nd (or 3rd) largest city economy after NY (& LA). Cricket is big in GTA - it's actually possible to run a GTA Franchise League here.
    Yeah in terms of cricket NZ are much better than Canada in basketball or baseball. But Toronto is a massive market while Christchurch and Wellington are tiny.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Thanks for the detailed response. I didn't have all the facts, but now the number tells probably 3 Kiwi team is max that can be accommodated. However, like NHL, despite tiny population Canadian cities are doing great because of the quality of the players; similarly NZ in terms of cricketers' quality actually much richer than what Canada is to USA for NBA or MLB. Combined sports (quality) & economy, I think 2, even 3 Kiwi team definitely can make it and these 3 Cities have International Airport as well.

    By the way, Toronto as a City, is the 3rd largest City proper in North America in terms of population (After Mexico City & NY), and probably 2nd (or 3rd) largest city economy after NY (& LA). Cricket is big in GTA - it's actually possible to run a GTA Franchise League here.
    Toronto proper is smaller than Mexico City, NYC, LA, and Chicago. Its right about the same size as Chicago, but Chiicago's metro population makes it about 50% larger.

    In terms of economy Toronto is probably the smaller as well. That can be easily looked up on google.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutdown Corner View Post
    Toronto proper is smaller than Mexico City, NYC, LA, and Chicago. Its right about the same size as Chicago, but Chiicago's metro population makes it about 50% larger.

    In terms of economy Toronto is probably the smaller as well. That can be easily looked up on google.
    Just looked it up on wikipedia.

    Toronto surprisingly has a GDP far smaller than even secondary US cities like Boston and Atlanta. That might not be correct.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutdown Corner View Post
    Just looked it up on wikipedia.

    Toronto surprisingly has a GDP far smaller than even secondary US cities like Boston and Atlanta. That might not be correct.
    No, it's correct. Toronto actually is one of the poorest per capita GDP in Canada as well, because of high % of immigrants. In terms of population, in City proper, it's actually 4th now.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    No, it's correct. Toronto actually is one of the poorest per capita GDP in Canada as well, because of high % of immigrants. In terms of population, in City proper, it's actually 4th now.
    Well Chicago and Tdot are almost equal and Chicago's population growth is nearly flat. So not surprising.

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