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  1. #1
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    Does Australia officially have the best bowling attack in Tests?

    The Australian bowling attack has done brilliantly in the Ashes so far. The biggest positive for the hosts has been the bowling of Nathan Lyon. His bowling has been the difference between the two sides I feel. The Australian attack has all bases covered. A left Arm quick, two accurate and quick right arm pacers and arguably the best spinner in the world right now. The biggest piece that was missing from the Australian attack was an effective spinner and with Nathan Lyon improving leaps and bounds, they have that too right now.

    I feel that in tests only South Africa can rival the Australia attack at the moment. What do you all think? Do Australia have the best bowling attack in tests at the moment?

  2. #2
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    I don't know if Australia have the best bowling attack in tests, one or two injuries here or there and drop in form can change attacks overnight so its tempting fate to make these type of statements.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I don't know if Australia have the best bowling attack in tests, one or two injuries here or there and drop in form can change attacks overnight so its tempting fate to make these type of statements.
    Well that could happen to any team but I think Australia do have some good backup pacers as well. Chadd Sayers, Jackson Bird, Jason Behrendorff et all add to the bench strength Australia has. Nathan Lyon possibly does not have a replacement as I am not that convinced about O' Keefe.

  4. #4
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    Wait till South Africa tours there next. Then it will all be the end of the world for Australia until they hammer England again.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrish View Post
    Wait till South Africa tours there next. Then it will all be the end of the world for Australia until they hammer England again.
    Yeah we hear that quite often, NZ were going to touch us up and then Pakistan were going to thrash us last year.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yeah we hear that quite often, NZ were going to touch us up and then Pakistan were going to thrash us last year.
    Pakistan and NZ aren't SA.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrish View Post
    Pakistan and NZ aren't SA.
    Its fair to give a bit of stick when we lose a match or series, that's cricket. But when you start bragging about a win before a ball is bowled then its nonsense.

  8. #8
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    Australia have a bowling attack that works well in their own backyard. It has failed on many occasions in "away" conditions.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Its fair to give a bit of stick when we lose a match or series, that's cricket. But when you start bragging about a win before a ball is bowled then its nonsense.
    That is quite fair. Hope PPers adhere to it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiseCaptain View Post
    Australia have a bowling attack that works well in their own backyard. It has failed on many occasions in "away" conditions.
    That is not completely true. They did struggle a lot with the bat but their last couple of tours to the subcontinent, their bowling was very good. They lost because their batting could not cope with spin.

  11. #11
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    At full strength, yes. SA, a close second. They have the best bowler though.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    That is not completely true. They did struggle a lot with the bat but their last couple of tours to the subcontinent, their bowling was very good. They lost because their batting could not cope with spin.
    They have three good pacers and one good spinner and to me that is not enough to be called the best test match attack considering the modern day cricket. They lack bowling bench strength big time which is needed taking into account the amount of cricket played now a days.

    I cant think of another spinner which we can say world class which Australia have to support Lyon which is a necessity in sub continent. Also if one of their pacers Starc, Cummins or Hazlewood gets unfit they have no bowler even close to the potential of these three.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    They have three good pacers and one good spinner and to me that is not enough to be called the best test match attack considering the modern day cricket. They lack bowling bench strength big time which is needed taking into account the amount of cricket played now a days.

    I cant think of another spinner which we can say world class which Australia have to support Lyon which is a necessity in sub continent. Also if one of their pacers Starc, Cummins or Hazlewood gets unfit they have no bowler even close to the potential of these three.
    Unlike other teams they don't have back up pacers of the same quality. OK

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    They have three good pacers and one good spinner and to me that is not enough to be called the best test match attack considering the modern day cricket. They lack bowling bench strength big time which is needed taking into account the amount of cricket played now a days.

    I cant think of another spinner which we can say world class which Australia have to support Lyon which is a necessity in sub continent. Also if one of their pacers Starc, Cummins or Hazlewood gets unfit they have no bowler even close to the potential of these three.
    Spin attack is a problem, but they do have Steve O' Keefe who did very well in India as Lyon's support in subcontinent. Australia do have some very good young bowlers in domestic cricket. Jason Behrendorff is one and Chris Trermain is the other. They also have Chadd Sayers and Jackson Bird who have been brilliant in domestic cricket. Bird has played 8 tests and has taken 34 wickets at 27. So even though not at the same level as the 3 pacers, they aren't that bad.

    No team in the world can just replace their main 4 bowlers and replace them with 4 more equally good bowlers in tests. Even during Australia's dominance, they struggled when McGrath and Warne were injured. India played Australia's second string attack which contained Gillespie and Lee as well and scored plenty of runs and drew the series 1-1. Just imagine if SA lose, Steyn, Morkel, Rabada and Maharaj. Will the replacement be of same quality? Or if England lose Anderson and Broad, what will be their second string? Pakistan Lose Hasan Ali, Yasir Shah, Mohammad Amir, how will the replacements do? Every team has the same issue. We are only talking about the current Aussie attack, assuming they are fit. Injuries can happen and replacements can be good or bad.

  15. #15
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    Yes, although none of them are as good as Rabada.

  16. #16
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    Yes currently they are having the best test bowling attack but once this bowling attack is injured especially Starc, they will start losing to Bangladesh.

  17. #17
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    On most pitches yes, on certain wickets other attacks are better..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Spin attack is a problem, but they do have Steve O' Keefe who did very well in India as Lyon's support in subcontinent. Australia do have some very good young bowlers in domestic cricket. Jason Behrendorff is one and Chris Trermain is the other. They also have Chadd Sayers and Jackson Bird who have been brilliant in domestic cricket. Bird has played 8 tests and has taken 34 wickets at 27. So even though not at the same level as the 3 pacers, they aren't that bad.

    No team in the world can just replace their main 4 bowlers and replace them with 4 more equally good bowlers in tests. Even during Australia's dominance, they struggled when McGrath and Warne were injured. India played Australia's second string attack which contained Gillespie and Lee as well and scored plenty of runs and drew the series 1-1. Just imagine if SA lose, Steyn, Morkel, Rabada and Maharaj. Will the replacement be of same quality? Or if England lose Anderson and Broad, what will be their second string? Pakistan Lose Hasan Ali, Yasir Shah, Mohammad Amir, how will the replacements do? Every team has the same issue. We are only talking about the current Aussie attack, assuming they are fit. Injuries can happen and replacements can be good or bad.
    Yes O Keefe bowled well but he lacks the quality to become top spinner of the world. He is very limited with his variations.

    Coming to pace bolwers Behrendorff is a very good bowler and should have been part of the team almost a year or so ago or may be more early as he has an x factor but his fitness is a big concern.

    But, the quality of other bowlers vs their current three has a big gap, yes replacements of all the teams cant be of same qualities as orginal playing 11 but less gap in skills gives a good bench strength which I think Australia lacks.

    Take example of ODI series against SA where Chris Tremain, Mennie, Worrel etc played and they were demolished. Winning or losing is part of the game but they looked toothless.
    Last edited by Titan24; 7th December 2017 at 07:52.

  19. #19
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    Australia have three bowlers in the top ten in the rankings.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Australia have three bowlers in the top ten in the rankings.
    Because they play the most tests, outside of England & India (plus Aus) others play little in comparison. India & England also have a roster of 10~12 bowlers unlike Aus who have at best half a dozen, tried & tested ones.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Because they play the most tests, outside of England & India (plus Aus) others play little in comparison. India & England also have a roster of 10~12 bowlers unlike Aus who have at best half a dozen, tried & tested ones.
    Rankings take into account difference in amount of matches.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Rankings take into account difference in amount of matches.
    You lose ranking points if you don't play matches, as far as I'm aware.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    You lose ranking points if you don't play matches, as far as I'm aware.
    Only if you are not selected or injured, you lose 1%

    The players’ ratings are calculated by combining their weighted performance in the latest match with their previous rating. This new ‘weighted average’ is then converted into points. Recent performances have more impact on a player’s rating than those earlier in his career, but all his performances are taken into account. A great player who has had a lean run of form will still have a respectable rating. Players who miss a Test match for their country, for whatever reason, lose one per cent of their points.
    So as you can see it makes no difference how many matches your team plays as long as you are selected.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    You lose ranking points if you don't play matches, as far as I'm aware.
    You meant missing matches, right? No one loses points for his team having less tests than other teams.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  25. #25
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    Aus is the best bowling unit right now. Yah, talking about reserve may change it, but then you have to do the same for other teams as well. SA is not far behind here.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  26. #26
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    Yes, Saffers only have Rabada, and decent pacers while mediocre spinner, Australia has crazy bench strength, McGrath 2.0, Starc, Cummincs, Lyon, not even a competition.

    I don't think Saffers will beat Australia this time around.
    Last edited by CricFan2012; 7th December 2017 at 14:33.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    Yes, Saffers only have Rabada, and decent pacers while mediocre spinner, Australia has crazy bench strength, McGrath 2.0, Starc, Cummincs, Lyon, not even a competition.

    I don't think Saffers will beat Australia this time around.
    Not disagreeing that Aus is the best bowling unit right now, but I will wait till the same unit plays India or SA. Even if those two batting sides play in Aus. Eng is hardly a side with any fight in their batting unit. India will surely not win, but they along with SA show some fight.

    I won't read too much into how Eng is playing in Aus. Eng does this poor job in pretty much every Ashes in Aus.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  28. #28
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    Yes, Aus is the best attack currently.

    Starc - Great test bowler
    Hazlewood- Better than Starc
    Cummins- Better than both but that is when he is fit
    Lyon- Again a very very good or great spinner.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    Yes, Saffers only have Rabada, and decent pacers while mediocre spinner, Australia has crazy bench strength, McGrath 2.0, Starc, Cummincs, Lyon, not even a competition.

    I don't think Saffers will beat Australia this time around.
    Rabada, Philander, Abbott, Maharaj out bowled Australia in Australia last year.
    How will Australia cope if SA unleashes Steyn, Philander, Rabada, Morkel & Maharaj in SA conditions?

    SA>Aus>>>Ind=Eng=NZ>Pak>>WI>>Sri>>Bang=Zim

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Yes, Aus is the best attack currently.

    Starc - Great test bowler (Not convinced)
    Hazlewood- Better than Starc (Significantly better than Starc)
    Cummins- Better than both but that is when he is fit (Agree)
    Lyon- Again a very very good or great spinner.
    (Agree)

    In my opinion it is Lyon that sets them apart. He allows the three quicks to attack.
    Last edited by Outswinger; 7th December 2017 at 15:33.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outswinger View Post
    Rabada, Philander, Abbott, Maharaj out bowled Australia in Australia last year.
    How will Australia cope if SA unleashes Steyn, Philander, Rabada, Morkel & Maharaj in SA conditions?

    SA>Aus>>>Ind=Eng=NZ>Pak>>WI>>Sri>>Bang=Zim
    Saffers have never won a series Vs Aus at home in last many years.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outswinger View Post
    (Agree
    I mean great i.e. country great. Probably end up in the league of Johnson, Broad and Anderson in tests.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Saffers have never won a series Vs Aus at home in last many years.
    Sure, but with the current Australian batting line-up you have to feel its going to happen soon.
    Plus its the first time they are going to play a 4 test match series.
    Gonna be an epic series for sure. The real "Ashes" if you ask me.
    They beat Australia in Australia 3 x times in a row. Maybe the longer series could get them over the line this time.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outswinger View Post
    Sure, but with the current Australian batting line-up you have to feel its going to happen soon.
    Plus its the first time they are going to play a 4 test match series.
    Gonna be an epic series for sure. The real "Ashes" if you ask me.
    They beat Australia in Australia 3 x times in a row. Maybe the longer series could get them over the line this time.
    U sure it is 4 tests??

    If it's true, it will be fun.

  35. #35
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    1 Mar - 5 Mar: Kingsmead, Durban
    9 Mar - 13 Mar: St George's, Port Elizabeth
    22 Mar - 26 Mar: Newlands, Cape Town
    30 Mar - 3 Apr: Wanderers, JHB


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outswinger View Post
    1 Mar - 5 Mar: Kingsmead, Durban
    9 Mar - 13 Mar: St George's, Port Elizabeth
    22 Mar - 26 Mar: Newlands, Cape Town
    30 Mar - 3 Apr: Wanderers, JHB

    Any day-nighter in that?


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Any day-nighter in that?
    Nope unfortunately not. Those are awesome!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outswinger View Post
    1 Mar - 5 Mar: Kingsmead, Durban
    9 Mar - 13 Mar: St George's, Port Elizabeth
    22 Mar - 26 Mar: Newlands, Cape Town
    30 Mar - 3 Apr: Wanderers, JHB


    Looking forward to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outswinger View Post
    Rabada, Philander, Abbott, Maharaj out bowled Australia in Australia last year.
    How will Australia cope if SA unleashes Steyn, Philander, Rabada, Morkel & Maharaj in SA conditions?

    SA>Aus>>>Ind=Eng=NZ>Pak>>WI>>Sri>>Bang=Zim
    I fail to see how an unfit Phillander and a returning out of form Steyn are better than Aussies superior fast bowlers and premier spinner.

    Only

    Morkel and Rabada currently match up to Hazle, Starc, Cummins, and Lyon


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  40. #40
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    Steyn's shoulder breaks (literally fractures) every time he tries to bowl fast. He was an atg but I'l be amazed (& thrilled for him) if he bowls well again.

    Rabada has done more in the game (just) but is about on par with Cummins, talent wise.
    Morkel or Hazelwood? I'd honestly take Hazlewood.
    Philander or Starc- very different bowlers. I'll call it a slight edge for Philander just due to consistency & longevity.
    Maharaj & Lyon- clearly the GOAT is on a different level.

    I think Oz has the better attack in SA/Oz conditions.

  41. #41
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    Bowling attack

    Aus
    SA
    Don't really know

    Batting lineup

    Ind
    SA( Elgar and Kock are now established test player with Amla- AB experience adding to that)
    Again don't know( probably Aus) but away from home their batting is all about Smith

    England have some high quality players like Root, Bairstow( wasted), Cook( done), Anderson ( done) , Broad, Moen and Stokes but they are wasting them as bit and pieces players.

  42. #42
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    I think the Australian attack when everyone is fit is an all conditions attack, so is South Africa. New Zealand has a good pace attack but their spin stocks in tests aren't that great. Indian bowling is not tested outside Asia. We will know how good they are in the next year and a half.

    In terms of batting, it is pretty thin around the world at the moment. India and SA probably will be top 2. New Zealand may come third with Williamson, Ross Taylor and Tom Latham. Jeet Raval also has been good for them. Australian batting even at home has been found wanting if you noticed in the current Ashes series.

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    On current form got to be. Starc, Hoff, Cummins and Lyon all in good nick and have pretty much most of the bases covered. Only thing missing might be a quality allrounder and a second spinner for SC conditions. Mitch Marsh and SOK are decent options I guess but not exactly world-class. A fully fit and in-form SA attack would defo be right up there as well Steyn, VP, Rabada, Maharaj and Morris with Tahir as second spinner.

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    On another note also great to finally see some decent cricket wickets in Oz after all the concrete slabs which have been laid down last few years. Good to see the pink ball hold up well too on not so lush green conditions. Only disappointment thus far has been Eng

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    Absolutely they are complete attack with best spinner in the world! Hazelwood is best fast bowler in the world right now!!

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    I would say so. Incidentally my personal view would be that Starc is a good bowler, but he is the one who sometimes looks vulnerable and like he might lose his radar at any moment. Hazelwood meanwhile is the new ball / start of session magician with his nippy corridor bowling, Lyon is a gun spinner, and Cummins is one of the best fast bowlers that I have seen in this era - and this was clear to me since his ripping debut in South Africa - sadly he will play less Tests than the other three because he will break down more often.

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    Best fast bowling attack for fast wickets.I remember when they toured UAE after whitewashing England and beating SA.Their bowling attack(although much different) was completely useless.I doubt that this attack can do this good in places other than SA,Australia,NZ and maybe England.

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    I think they have the best attack when you consider their bench strength. They have some amazing fast bowlers in domestic cricket. But they are lacking in spinners. After Lyon there is nothing.

  49. #49
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    They do have best bowling attack when all their Frontline bowlers are available and well rested.

    Cummins and Hazelwood are as good as any bowler in world. Starc is variety every team needs. And Goat is goat.

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    On current form it's the best attack in the world. All basis are covered. Hopefully Starc and Cummins can stay fit.

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    Yes & no.

    Their attack is best in AUS condition with 3 fast bowlers standing at around 6'8", 6'5" & 6'4" and they do have a spinner very good in using bounce of the track. On top of that, their back-ups are quite formidable in pace department. But, is this a better attack than Jimmy, Berbi, Woakes & Stokes in English condition - NO. Is this a better attack than BK, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja & Yadav/Chahal on Indian wickets - no even remotely close. Is this a better attack than Herath, Perera & Sandakan on Srilakan wickets - I doubt.

    On full potential, I'll still take Styen, Rabada, Phillander, Morne, Mahraj & Tahir as the best all-round attack in world.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Yes & no.

    Their attack is best in AUS condition with 3 fast bowlers standing at around 6'8", 6'5" & 6'4" and they do have a spinner very good in using bounce of the track. On top of that, their back-ups are quite formidable in pace department. But, is this a better attack than Jimmy, Berbi, Woakes & Stokes in English condition - NO. Is this a better attack than BK, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja & Yadav/Chahal on Indian wickets - no even remotely close. Is this a better attack than Herath, Perera & Sandakan on Srilakan wickets - I doubt.

    On full potential, I'll still take Styen, Rabada, Phillander, Morne, Mahraj & Tahir as the best all-round attack in world.
    I guess it comes down to if Aus bowlers will do better in SL/Ind or Sl/Ind bowlers will do better in Aus. In home conditions, most bowling units are better than visiting teams.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    I guess it comes down to if Aus bowlers will do better in SL/Ind or Sl/Ind bowlers will do better in Aus. In home conditions, most bowling units are better than visiting teams.
    It should be rather which attack suits most different conditions - in that regard BD is most limited, while SAF is most versatile.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Yes & no.

    Their attack is best in AUS condition with 3 fast bowlers standing at around 6'8", 6'5" & 6'4" and they do have a spinner very good in using bounce of the track. On top of that, their back-ups are quite formidable in pace department. But, is this a better attack than Jimmy, Berbi, Woakes & Stokes in English condition - NO. Is this a better attack than BK, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja & Yadav/Chahal on Indian wickets - no even remotely close. Is this a better attack than Herath, Perera & Sandakan on Srilakan wickets - I doubt.

    On full potential, I'll still take Styen, Rabada, Phillander, Morne, Mahraj & Tahir as the best all-round attack in world.
    You rate Maharaj or Tahir ahead of goat?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    You rate Maharaj or Tahir ahead of goat?
    Mahraj is much better than most rates him. His stats are actually better than Lyon, but for a small sample. Hw has age in his side, so you never know.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    It should be rather which attack suits most different conditions - in that regard BD is most limited, while SAF is most versatile.
    I am not counting on Steyn to be fully fit and play a long series anymore. Still I will put SA a close second.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Yes & no.

    Their attack is best in AUS condition with 3 fast bowlers standing at around 6'8", 6'5" & 6'4" and they do have a spinner very good in using bounce of the track. On top of that, their back-ups are quite formidable in pace department. But, is this a better attack than Jimmy, Berbi, Woakes & Stokes in English condition - NO. Is this a better attack than BK, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja & Yadav/Chahal on Indian wickets - no even remotely close. Is this a better attack than Herath, Perera & Sandakan on Srilakan wickets - I doubt.

    On full potential, I'll still take Styen, Rabada, Phillander, Morne, Mahraj & Tahir as the best all-round attack in world.
    I dont think Australia's bench strength in bowling depatment is strong. They dont have bowlers who can bowl with same pace as the current trio or as penetrative as them. Bird, Tremain, Mennie, Worrell etc are very limited

    While spinner like Lyon is nowhere near to be seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I dont think Australia's bench strength in bowling depatment is strong. They dont have bowlers who can bowl with same pace as the current trio or as penetrative as them. Bird, Tremain, Mennie, Worrell etc are very limited

    While spinner like Lyon is nowhere near to be seen.
    On AUS wickets Chaad Sayer, Bh'hoff, Bird, T'main will be effective as well. Spin is bigger problem.

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    If u look at current squad then it definitely is... but Starc plays one series in 6 months and Cummins made a comeback after 6 years with Pattinson never able to get rid of his injures and same is the case with CounterNile... Only GOAT and Hazzlewood have consistently played and performed for Australia in recent years


    SIR DONALD BRADMAN ------SORRY, BUT NO ONE LIKE HIM

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    Australia and South Africa are joint best. Fantastic pace bowlers, dependable spinners and most of all, they have zero weak links in the attack.

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