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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    I said talent, in terms of natural talent he reminds me of AB.
    But Smith is mentally tougher and shapes more games for his country than Root. But Root is definitely more talented imo. Talent can be wasted though. It's like Amla vs AB, Amla has shaped more games for SA than AB ever will. So who is a better bat? I choose the guy that wins matches for his country.

    AB is on a road to redemption though. He needs to do what he's doing for the next two/three years then we'll talk. One swallow doesn't make a summer.
    I was referring to the 14 years part of the comment.

    Good to see you rate ABD finally. Yes he has to carry on but he never was as poor as you made him out to be.

    With that being said, I am glad to see him do justice to his talent.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I was referring to the 14 years part of the comment.

    Good to see you rate ABD finally. Yes he has to carry on but he never was as poor as you made him out to be.

    With that being said, I am glad to see him do justice to his talent.
    It's the conversion rate + tough runs issue with both AB and Root, 50s hardly ever win test matches. Ab is scoring tough runs now but can't even get to 100 most of the time. 1 ton and 6 50s in these 2 series

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    Root is the most talented player I've seen after AB.
    Problem with such players is they don't cash in as the lesser blokes. It's going to take some doing for Bairstow to be anywhere near Root.

    Not many players can play swinging conditions these days. Root is one of them, class player of spin too. Needs to work on his mental side of the game and he'll be fine. It took AB 14 years to shape games for his country, Root has done quite a bit of that already. I see no reason why he can't end his career as the best bat post 2010, by some distance too.
    Can't see him going past Smith even with the ban, the 2 Ks are a more realistic target

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I was referring to the 14 years part of the comment.

    Good to see you rate ABD finally. Yes he has to carry on but he never was as poor as you made him out to be.

    With that being said, I am glad to see him do justice to his talent.
    I never said AB was poor, I've been harsh on him and rightly so. He is the most talented bat I've ever seen, I've never denied that. My gripe with him is that lesser blokes have had greater impact on the game than he has, Amla and G. Smith being great examples. They won so many games for us than the more talented AB.

    In general I'm tough and demanding on players who are talented than the rest. I'm tough and critical of Tendulkar too. Messi as well. Especially since FIFA tried to lie to the general public about Messi winning the WC on his own and contorting a plan to give him the player of the tournament before the WC was even won to suit a narrative. di Maria was by far Argentina's best player in 2014. Aguero, Mascherano, Higuain, di Maria etc. These guys have won titles and CL before. How is that winning a WC on your own, when you weren't even the teams best player?

    Anyway I digress, I will always hold those who are privileged to higher standards than the rest. I'm taxing and demanding on great players. AB is definitely making amendments, there's no running away from that. But he must not tease us and leave the job half done. There's a big home series coming up next year against the English. He must win that one for us, only then can he go and watch the sunset. (I'd prefer him to stay a bit longer, but I wouldn't begrudge should he quit after that series).

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Can't see him going past Smith even with the ban, the 2 Ks are a more realistic target
    Smith like Amla has an unorthodox technique. I don't think he is as good as Amla was against spin and swing. Therefore I expect a similar rapid decline that we saw with Amla.
    Root on the other hand has an orthodox technique like AB, I expect him to thrive into his mid 30's. It is then that we will see and truly appreciate the class of Root.

    Of the so called big four Root is the only one I've seen consistently scoring in tough swinging decks. Others cash in on lesser tracks and score heavily. That's the only reason they get to be mentioned with Root, but imho they are a class below. Root's hundred in Johannesburg is one of the best innings I've ever seen. The pitch was swinging throughout. Another masterclass was at Trent Bridge, scoring 130 when Australia was dismissed for 60.

    The guy is pure class.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    It's the conversion rate + tough runs issue with both AB and Root, 50s hardly ever win test matches. Ab is scoring tough runs now but can't even get to 100 most of the time. 1 ton and 6 50s in these 2 series
    Root will have a poor conversion rate because he can score on any surface against any bowler. Whereas others will be sitting ducks and convert their starts on lesser decks. Hence the good conversion rate. Root needs to work on that, he must ensure he gets 150+ on such decks.

  7. #87
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    Root's chronic back problems would prevent him from playing long innings where he truly cashes in on flat tracks. We saw it on the tour to India 18 months ago, he got off to a start in almost every innings but failed to convert. He is going to be ranked a tier below the likes of Smith and Kohli.

    Bairstow on the other hand is being criminally wasted at 7. He has the potential to be every bit as good as the Fab 4.

  8. #88
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    Bairstow is wasted at 7. Move him to 4 or 5 and give the gloves to a specialist keeper

  9. #89
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    Ridiculous that Bayliss is wasting Bairstow at 6 and 7.

    Been saying for two years that he is the best batsman in the team and should be permanently moved to 5 with Foakes given the gloves.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Ridiculous that Bayliss is wasting Bairstow at 6 and 7.

    Been saying for two years that he is the best batsman in the team and should be permanently moved to 5 with Foakes given the gloves.
    This top seven looks rather better....

    Hameed
    Livingstone
    Cook
    Root
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Foakes (w)

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    This top seven looks rather better....

    Hameed
    Livingstone
    Cook
    Root
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Foakes (w)
    Not sure a fairly aggressive middle order batsman who likes to get bat on ball is the best choice for the next person on the opener carousel personally.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Not sure a fairly aggressive middle order batsman who likes to get bat on ball is the best choice for the next person on the opener carousel personally.
    Fair enough. Sometimes it works though, Gooch being the best example.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Not sure a fairly aggressive middle order batsman who likes to get bat on ball is the best choice for the next person on the opener carousel personally.
    Are you talking of Livingstone?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Are you talking of Livingstone?
    Yes.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Fair enough. Sometimes it works though, Gooch being the best example.
    Why was Hameed dropped?

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Why was Hameed dropped?
    Had a pretty awful championship season, particularly the start.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Yes.
    How about this top 7?

    Cook
    Hameed
    Root
    Bairstow
    Livingstone
    Stokes
    Foakes(W)

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    How about this top 7?

    Cook
    Hameed
    Root
    Bairstow
    Livingstone
    Stokes
    Foakes(W)
    Personally I'm split over taking the gloves from Bairstow or not. He himself seems to really want to keep up his keeping and it's come on massively in the last couple of years to a really high standard. It's a tough one.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Personally I'm split over taking the gloves from Bairstow or not. He himself seems to really want to keep up his keeping and it's come on massively in the last couple of years to a really high standard. It's a tough one.
    I think given Root's current form, they must need to have one more world-class batsmen at no.4 or 5. At the moment, there is no one really who fits that bill bar Bairstow.

    He has to give up gloves, take responsibility and bat at 4 or 5 and not lower than that. These clutch 60s and 70s and random hundreds won't be able to change the game scenario unless he bats at 4 or 5.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    How about this top 7?

    Cook
    Hameed
    Root
    Bairstow
    Livingstone
    Stokes
    Foakes(W)
    Looks OK on paper but I think Cook is finished as an opener. If he comes on when the ball is a bit older he might still be able to contribute.

    Also Root does not like batting at #3

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    It's the conversion rate + tough runs issue with both AB and Root, 50s hardly ever win test matches. Ab is scoring tough runs now but can't even get to 100 most of the time. 1 ton and 6 50s in these 2 series
    ABD was never known for pretty 50s like Root.

    He was overshadowed by other members but scored important runs playing second fiddle.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    I think given Root's current form, they must need to have one more world-class batsmen at no.4 or 5. At the moment, there is no one really who fits that bill bar Bairstow.
    As to Root’s current form, he averages 43 for the winter, England’s highest scorer despite not getting a hundred.

    He is continually doing repair jobs because the top three are so bad.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    As to Root’s current form, he averages 43 for the winter, England’s highest scorer despite not getting a hundred.

    He is continually doing repair jobs because the top three are so bad.
    Maybe he should step up and bat at 3?


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Maybe he should step up and bat at 3?

    Doesn’t want to. Though currently the best 3, 4 and 5 is arguably Root, Malan and Bairstow.

    Typically England put their best shot-player at #4 - Compton, Dexter, Gower, KP, Root.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Doesn’t want to. Though currently the best 3, 4 and 5 is arguably Root, Malan and Bairstow.

    Typically England put their best shot-player at #4 - Compton, Dexter, Gower, KP, Root.
    Afraid of the new ball?

    No reason why he can't bat there, he is technically sound.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  26. #106
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    I'd try Cook at four instead of opening now. England still need his experience and not really sold on the new middle order players England are playing.

    Root needs to play three atm, England have virtually nothing in their top three with Cook being in poor form. At least they have guys like Bairstow and Stokes in middle order.

  27. #107
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    Root getting to 50 so many times and not converting is hilarious.

    Reminds me of Sachin around the time of his 99th century. But at least he got out a few times in the 90s then, Root just gets to 55 and 60 and boom - out.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Afraid of the new ball?

    No reason why he can't bat there, he is technically sound.
    It’s more to do with the lavish amount of movement in the mornings in England. The #3 is a specialist position which England usually struggle to fill. Nasser was OK, Trott much better.

  29. #109
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    Root is a run machine. You are comparing a batsman who has a fifty+ test average batting in the top order (Root) with one who averages around 40 batting in the lower order (Bairstow). It makes no sense.

    Yes, Root doesn't score hundreds, and that is why he is not in the same class as Kohli, Smith, Williamson. Even Azhar Ali would be classed ahead of him now on stats alone in test cricket. But considering the fact that he doesn't make many hundreds, and still averages over 50 tells you how consistent he is. Scoring fifties regularly.

    Bairstow is improving every game, but batting lower down the order is easier, so he should average more than he does. He scores more hundreds than Root, but unless he starts averaging 50+ in test cricket, Root remains England's best test batsman.

  30. #110
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    Correction: Obviously Bairstow doesn't score more hundreds than Root, but he has the potential to score big hundreds. But this idea alone (based on potential not proven performance) is still not enough to class him as a better batsman than Root. Bairstow needs to improve his consistency and start averaging 50+

  31. #111
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    Jonny Bairstow averages 38.48 in test Cricket after 51 tests with only 4 100;s Am I missing something?

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oligochaetes View Post
    Jonny Bairstow averages 38.48 in test Cricket after 51 tests with only 4 100;s Am I missing something?
    It is easy to miss a flash in the pan performance. And you have my company

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreePalestine View Post
    Root is a run machine. You are comparing a batsman who has a fifty+ test average batting in the top order (Root) with one who averages around 40 batting in the lower order (Bairstow). It makes no sense.

    Yes, Root doesn't score hundreds, and that is why he is not in the same class as Kohli, Smith, Williamson. Even Azhar Ali would be classed ahead of him now on stats alone in test cricket. But considering the fact that he doesn't make many hundreds, and still averages over 50 tells you how consistent he is. Scoring fifties regularly.

    Bairstow is improving every game, but batting lower down the order is easier, so he should average more than he does. He scores more hundreds than Root, but unless he starts averaging 50+ in test cricket, Root remains England's best test batsman.
    Root has thirteen test hundreds.

    In the last year or so he has developed an issue where he seems to lose concentration after reaching fifty. That will change.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Root has thirteen test hundreds.

    In the last year or so he has developed an issue where he seems to lose concentration after reaching fifty. That will change.
    yes I agree. I added a correction in the post straight after saying exactly that.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Root has thirteen test hundreds.

    In the last year or so he has developed an issue where he seems to lose concentration after reaching fifty. That will change.
    His contemporaries have 23, 21 and 18 in around same number of matches. 2

  36. #116
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    Root will eventually sort out his conversion issue. He's really a phenomenal batsman who can score runs in virtually any conditions, great against swing and seam, can handle bounce, and more than decent on turners.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I was referring to natural ability. Root makes batting look so easy. Bairstow looks limited. I will agree that Bairstow is mentally tougher.
    Say again.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Say again.
    How many runs did Bairstow score in the test series?

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    How many runs did Bairstow score in the test series?
    Why not answer what you wrote? Root is nowhere near as dynamic as Bairstow.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  40. #120
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    Johnny bairstow is definitely claiming for throne with his spectacular performances. Need to score more hundreds in test cricket to achieve title of " England's best"
    His rise in limited overs cricket is exceptional . bairstow has shown he is more versatile & dangerous batsman due to his power game which root lacks.

  41. #121
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    Bairstow should ditch the gloves. This will improve him even more as a batsmen. He has improved his shot range.

  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Bairstow should ditch the gloves. This will improve him even more as a batsmen. He has improved his shot range.
    He has an emotional attachment with them as his father was also ENG's wicket-keeper.

    He committed suicide.


    "Preventive war is like committing suicide for fear of death" ~ Otto Von Bismarck

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    He has an emotional attachment with them as his father was also ENG's wicket-keeper.

    He committed suicide.
    The decision may need to be taken out of his hand. He can be a brilliant specialist batsmen.

  44. #124
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    Bairstow without doubt has improved immensely. In LOI he has become Englands no.1 batter.

  45. #125
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    Bairstow is wasted down the order in Test cricket.

    Needs to bat in top four.

  46. #126
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    Bairstow averages 38 in tests as a wicket-keeper batsmen. His wicket keeping has improved but still not all that great while he should have also averaged higher with the bat.

    Root, for all the flak, still averages 52 in tests.

  47. #127
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    Huh, A keeper wasted down at 7...not scoring runs then moves up the order to finally score runs and become the beast

    A fairytale we are all hoping for

  48. #128
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    in LOIs, Bairstow has definitely cemented himself as England's best. In Tests it's still Joe Root followed by Cook.

    But seriously, this is the most stacked batting line up since the mighty Aussie team of 2000s!

    India with the selection of KL Rahul & Iyer can be up to the task too when they join their fab 3 at the top. Still wondering why Raina was favored for Eng tour over Pant.

    England & India undoubtedly the two best ODI outfits right now. Can't wait for their bilateral ODI series!

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    Bairstow is better in LOIs while Root is still top dog in Tests.But Bairstow is improving too.

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    Anyone averaging 38 can't be better than another person averaging 52.Period.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Anyone averaging 38 can't be better than another person averaging 52.Period.
    That 38 average is considering that he keeps gloves. Gilly averages 46 as wicket-keeper batsmen.

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    That 38 average is considering that he keeps gloves. Gilly averages 46 as wicket-keeper batsmen.
    This may sound ignorant, but how does keeping affect average?

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baigel View Post
    This may sound ignorant, but how does keeping affect average?
    Because wicket-keeping is a really demanding role. You need to be agile in creating opportunities for stumping, run-outs and catches etc.

    Wicket-keeping requires a great level of concentration and that is what affects batting because the workload becomes huge.

    This is why one needs to have a specialist wicket-keeper, particularly, in tests where you have to stand behind the batsmen for the whole day and even the next day as well.

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baigel View Post
    This may sound ignorant, but how does keeping affect average?
    The load of extra work definitely affects.

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    If you make Root bat at 7 then you can't compare with with Bairstow


    [QUOTE=Mamoon;9742871]Don't see us ascending from 7th/6th in the near future. 5-0 in England and South Africa awaits us, we will be lucky to even draw one match. [/QUOTE]

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Because wicket-keeping is a really demanding role. You need to be agile in creating opportunities for stumping, run-outs and catches etc.

    Wicket-keeping requires a great level of concentration and that is what affects batting because the workload becomes huge.

    This is why one needs to have a specialist wicket-keeper, particularly, in tests where you have to stand behind the batsmen for the whole day and even the next day as well.
    Why didn't these things had an effect on career of GOAT Wicket-keeper Kamran Akmal


    [QUOTE=Mamoon;9742871]Don't see us ascending from 7th/6th in the near future. 5-0 in England and South Africa awaits us, we will be lucky to even draw one match. [/QUOTE]

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    That 38 average is considering that he keeps gloves. Gilly averages 46 as wicket-keeper batsmen.
    It's not a certainty that if he quits wicketkeeping he will avg the same as root.
    We can't call him the better batsman based on just potential .
    Even prior averaged 41 with the bat but was he better than even bell or vaughan.

  58. #138
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    At the moment bairstow is way ahead of root in short formats in tests bairstow as player is more imp than root as well.

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    It's not a certainty that if he quits wicketkeeping he will avg the same as root.
    We can't call him the better batsman based on just potential .
    Even prior averaged 41 with the bat but was he better than even bell or vaughan.
    I agree. I was just pointing that the difference between the two isn't as big as the difference between their batting avg.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by UN talkz View Post
    Why didn't these things had an effect on career of GOAT Wicket-keeper Kamran Akmal
    I didnt get your point. Kamran averages 30 with the bat and was a very poor keeper as well.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    It's not a certainty that if he quits wicketkeeping he will avg the same as root.
    We can't call him the better batsman based on just potential .
    Even prior averaged 41 with the bat but was he better than even bell or vaughan.
    Prior was a very good wicket-keeper batsmen. Bairstow is considered a world class batsmen even though he averages only 38 because he keeps gloves and also that he is about to hit peak, so that average will rise north only.

  62. #142
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    What’s he got, four centuries and two fifties in his last eight ODIs and average 107 last year.

    That’s Bradmanesque.

    If only he could replicate that in tests.

  63. #143
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    Root is still better in Tests.

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Prior was a very good wicket-keeper batsmen. Bairstow is considered a world class batsmen even though he averages only 38 because he keeps gloves and also that he is about to hit peak, so that average will rise north only.

    He is continually under pressure with the bat because he has to keep repairing top order collapses.

    If he was the opener or #4 he would contribute better.

  65. #145
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    YJB is [so far] a HTB in ODIs.Name:  Screen Shot 2018-06-26 at 5.33.43 PM.jpg
Views: 261
Size:  16.6 KB

    And if you drop the 5 NZ ODIs from that graphic, outside the UK [ENG/SCOT] he averages 24 with zero hundreds.

    His batting in ODIs at home/recently has been Smithesque.

    I've been disappointed by him in Tests in the recent past, but YJB should open the batting in Tests and leave the gloves to Jos at 7.
    Last edited by Lefthanded; 26th June 2018 at 21:41.

  66. #146
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    Great batting today when needed most already rating bairstow better than root in LOI's and if he gives wicket keeping in tests he can overtake root there as well.

  67. #147
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    England second best limited overs batsmen after Buttler.

  68. #148
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    Ridiculous he's batting at 6. Just nonsense again from England. Root is a waste in T20s, get him out of the team.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  69. #149
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    Yes, Root shouldn't play T20s. England dont need him in T20s as he doesn't add any value to England T20 team and also he will get some rest as well, afterall, he plays 15 tests and many odis every year.

  70. #150
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    In my opinion Hales has surpassed Root in limited overs. The rate at which Root has regressed is alarming.

  71. #151
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    Root must develop his t20 game otherwise I don't think he can survive in England t20 team.

    Jason roy's place is also under threat considering his underwhelming stats and inconsistent performances in t20i.

    England have plenty of white ball talent coming through

    Malan,Joe denly,Joe clarke,ben duckett,liam Livingston,sam hain,vince, etc. are in exellent white ball form & all top order batsmen.

  72. #152
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    Since the thread is bumped every time Bairstow hits a century, we should follow the same rule for Root as well.

    Without any doubt, Root proves he is the best man out there for England, atleast in Tests and up there with the very best in 50-overs game as well alongside Buttler and maybe Bairstow( who does the easy job of opening the batting in powerplays in odis).

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Say again.
    Root is better?

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Root is better?
    How, exactly? Lol.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    How, exactly? Lol.
    Played two match-winning innings in a high profile series?

  76. #156
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    Root and Buttler are two best LO batters for England. Bairstow is good too but hasn't played much yet and has same age as the former two.

  77. #157
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    2 quality knocks from Root.

  78. #158
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    Root is better but Bairstow is a monster in full flow

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Played two match-winning innings in a high profile series?
    You're honestly so lame, lol. The match was over when India posted 256 and Bairstow crushed any hope they had in the first 5 overs.

    Back to the nonsense you posted about Root being more gifted. Lol, dude is one-dimensional as it gets. Absolutely no comparison with Bairstow averaging 50 at 100+.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  80. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Root and Buttler are two best LO batters for England. Bairstow is good too but hasn't played much yet and has same age as the former two.
    Bairstow is not good, he's great and better than both.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.


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