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  1. #641
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    Donald Trump has said Boris Johnson would be an "excellent" choice for the Conservative Party leadership.

    In an interview with the Sun ahead of his visit to the UK, Mr Trump said: "I think Boris would do a very good job."

    The US president said other candidates had sought his endorsement, adding: "I could help anybody."

    His comments came as Home Secretary Sajid Javid became the latest leadership contender to say he was prepared to leave the EU with no deal.

    Writing in the Daily Mail, Mr Javid ruled out holding another referendum, an early general election or revoking Article 50 to end the Brexit process.

    'Very talented person'
    As the UK braces for Mr Trump's visit with a multi-million-pound security operation, Mr Trump said he had been paying close attention to the Tory leadership contest, which will decide the UK's next prime minister.

    He said: "I actually have studied it very hard. I know the different players. But I think Boris would do a very good job. I think he would be excellent. I like him. I have always liked him.

    "I don't know that he is going to be chosen but I think he is a very good guy, a very talented person."

    The US president declined to reveal names, but said that "other people" had asked him for endorsements and added: "I could help anybody if I endorse them."

    Mr Trump said he also looked favourably on Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt, telling the Sun: "Yup, I like him."

    But he said Environment Secretary Michael Gove had been wrong to apparently criticise him over Iran.

    Mr Gove said in an interview that "sabre rattling of the kind that some have advocated is not the way forward".

    Both the UK and the US would benefit from pressure on the Middle Eastern nation, Mr Trump said, "so he should be all for that".

    Who will replace Theresa May?
    The winner of the contest to lead the Conservative Party will become the next prime minister.

    Having previously said he was "surprised how badly" Brexit negotiations went, Mr Trump told the Sun the UK "allowed the European Union to have all the cards".

    "It is very hard to play well when one side has all the advantage," he said.

    He said the negotiators failed to put pressure on the EU, adding: "They didn't give the European Union anything to lose."

    Mr Trump responded to comments made by the Duchess of Sussex, who has been critical in the past of the US president.

    Ahead of the 2016 US presidential election, LA-born Meghan backed Mr Trump's rival Hillary Clinton and suggested she would leave the US if he won.

    When asked by the Sun about the comments, Mr Trump said he had not been aware of them, adding: "What can I say? I didn't know that she was nasty."

    But Mr Trump said Meghan would make "a very good" American princess, adding he thought it was "nice" she had joined the Royal Family.

    The US president will arrive in the UK on Monday for a state visit, during which he will meet members of the Royal Family, including the Queen and the Duke of Sussex.

    But Meghan, who gave birth to the couple's first child, Archie, in early May, will not be present.

    As with last year's visit, demonstrations against the US president are planned.

    Despite the scheduled protests, the Mr Trump told the Sun he hoped he was "really loved" in the UK.

    "I don't imagine any US president was ever closer to your great land," he said.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48478706


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  2. #642
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    One again incorrect from Robert

    You can go to Electoral Calculus website and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I think it has more to do with clear messaging. LDs and BP are in the lead because people are clear what they stand for - not the internecine Tory warfare over hard vs soft Brexit, or the doublethink triangulation by Labour.

    Due to FPTP Labour would have most MPs but be well short of a majority, while LDs would have 75 MPs and BP only 5 or so.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 2nd June 2019 at 14:41.

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    One again incorrect from Robert

    You can go to Electoral Calculus website and see.

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    Ah, thanks Mods for maintaining politeness.

    As I stated, Labour are short of a majority.

    LDs have more than I thought and Brexit sadly a lot more. Puts a Tory-Brexit coalition on 241, still short of a majority.

    Maybe LDs and Scot Nats would support Labour in return for a 2nd ref with option to Remain.

  4. #644
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    251 rather, eyes getting old for a titchy screen....

  5. #645
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    A Labour-Brexit coalition could force through Brexit

    There is a phrase 'the truth hurts'. Certainly seems to hurt snowflake Remainers

  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    A Labour-Brexit coalition could force through Brexit

    There is a phrase 'the truth hurts'. Certainly seems to hurt snowflake Remainers
    Could you really see Labour allying with the hard right? That really would prove the horseshoe model.

  7. #647
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    If they have a mandate via a General Election yes. It's called Democracy.

    They don't have a manifesto so by convention Labour as Governing and largest Party would have mandate to implement theirs

  8. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    If they have a mandate via a General Election yes. It's called Democracy.

    They don't have a manifesto so by convention Labour as Governing and largest Party would have mandate to implement theirs
    Jeremy Corbyn won’t even sit in a room with Chuka Umunna. Do you really think he would sit down with a bunch of hard right xenophobic ultranationalists?

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Do you really think he would sit down with a bunch of hard right xenophobic ultranationalists?
    Not all Brexit Party representatives are like this.

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Jeremy Corbyn won’t even sit in a room with Chuka Umunna. Do you really think he would sit down with a bunch of hard right xenophobic ultranationalists?
    Corbyn is a Brexiteer, has been for a long time.

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Corbyn is a Brexiteer, has been for a long time.
    That doesn’t answer my question.

  12. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    That doesn’t answer my question.
    Yes it does. Labour has more chance of forming an alliance with the Brexit (hard right xenophobic ultra nationalists) party, than LDs.

  13. #653
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    The end of Change UK!

    That didn't last long did it!?

    Change UK splits as six of 11 MPs become independents

    Change UK has lost six of its 11 MPs following a disappointing performance in last month's EU elections, when it failed to get a single MEP elected.

    The party announced that a new party leader, Anna Soubry, had been elected.

    She said she was "deeply disappointed" that Heidi Allen, Chuka Umunna, Sarah Wollaston, Angela Smith, Luciana Berger and Gavin Shuker had left.

    The departing MPs said they would be "returning to supporting each other as an independent grouping of MPs".

    Change UK - formerly known as the Independent Group - was formed earlier this year by MPs who quit Labour and the Conservatives.

    It pledged to push for any Brexit deal negotiated by the government to be voted on at a referendum - or "People's Vote" - in which it would campaign for the UK to remain in the EU.

    But in last month's European Parliament elections, it gained only 3.4% of the vote.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515505

  14. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    The end of Change UK!

    That didn't last long did it!?
    There is no room in the centre for a new party. What do they bring - resistance to Brexit? Disappointment in Corbyn? Got the Libs and Greens for that.

  15. #655
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    Labour just about hang on in Peterborough, holding off BXP. Thatís a relief.

    Tory vote collapsing. Unless they more to a Hard Brexit stance they are finished at the next GE. But then they will preside over a massive downturn in the economy and be out of power for a generation as the people blame them for their job losses and service erosion.

  16. #656
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    Strong hold for Labour.

  17. #657
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    Theresa May will officially step down as the leader of the Conservative Party on Friday, but will remain as prime minister until her successor is chosen.

    Mrs May announced her resignation two weeks ago, saying it was a matter of deep regret that she had been unable to deliver Brexit.

    Eleven Conservative MPs are vying to replace her as party leader and ultimately, prime minister.

    Nominations open from 10:00 BST on Monday and close at 17:00 BST that day.

    Mrs May remains acting leader while the contest takes place.


    Theresa May at the top

    Nearly 3 years as prime minister, following David Cameron

    6 years before that, as home secretary

    Failed to win 2017 general election outright, but stayed PM

    Remain voter in the 2016 EU referendum

    Brexit dominated her time at 10 Downing Street


    The UK was originally meant to leave the European Union on 29 March. That was then pushed back to 12 April and eventually 31 October after Mrs May failed to get MPs to approve her deal.

    She announced her resignation, saying she had done everything she could to try to persuade MPs to support the withdrawal deal which she had negotiated with the European Union but it was now time for a new prime minister to try to deliver Brexit.

    Leadership candidates need eight MPs to back them. MPs will then vote for their preferred candidates in a series of secret ballots held on 13, 18, 19 and 20 June.

    Charles Walker of the Conservative backbench 1922 committee, which sets the rules, said on Thursday: "We are aiming to have two people by Thursday 20 June."

    The final two will be put to a vote of members of the wider Conservative Party, with a winner expected to be announced in the week of 22 July.

    While the contest does not officially start until Mrs May steps down, candidates have already been jostling for position.

    How the next prime minister gets a Brexit deal through Parliament and whether they would countenance a no-deal exit has been the dominant question of the campaign so far.

    Dominic Raab's suggestion at a hustings on Wednesday that he would be prepared to shut down Parliament - the process known as prorogation - to ensure the UK leaves the EU on 31 October has been criticised by his rivals. And Commons Speaker John Bercow said on Thursday it was "simply not going to happen".

    Conservative leadership contender Michael Gove has said the UK must not be bound by a "fixed" date if it needs slightly more time to get a deal.

    Others, such as Mr Raab and Boris Johnson, insist the UK must leave on 31 October, whether it has approved a deal with Brussels or not.

    Former trade minister Lord Digby Jones has called on Mrs May's successor to provide more "stability" for UK businesses over Brexit.

    He told the BBC's Wake Up to Money programme that they should ensure the UK leaves the EU on 31 October "preferably with a deal - but without a deal rather than not coming out".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48550452


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  18. #658
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    Chuka Umunna says he is going to stand as a Lib Dem at the next GE.

    I wonder what the Parliamentary and the Streatham Lib Dems think of this. He left Labour, then he left ChUKTIG. He will have to work hard to build their trust. New Labour was authoritarian which did not sit well with many Liberals.

    If they accept him and their activists work for him, can he overturn his own 27,000 majority? Lewisham in 80% Remain so that might work in his favour, though it might be that Labour finally get a clear policy on the EU and take his Remain support.

  19. #659
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    A report in The Times says Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen are about to defect to the LDs too.

  20. #660
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    The Conservative leadership contest has turned into a game of who's taken what drugs when they were young.

  21. #661
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    Who was worse. Her or Margaret thatcher

  22. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    Who was worse. Her or Margaret thatcher
    You might not like Thatcher and plenty donít but she had an excellent mind and transformed the nation. 2/3 of the people got richer and freer under her. Trouble is that the other 1/3 got poorer, worse educated and sicker.

    May has done nothing much except use red lines to box us in to a bad deal with the EU.

  23. #663
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    GDP fell by 0.4% in April compared to previous month.

    Car production plunges by 24%.

  24. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    GDP fell by 0.4% in April compared to previous month.

    Car production plunges by 24%.
    Not yet a recession but it shows how little confidence industry has.

    Now BoJo says he will stiff the EU for the £40B severance fee. That will not endear us to international markets...

  25. #665
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    Good riddance .What a waste of space .


    you really can't beat the game. If you earn anything, it's minus taxes. If you buy anything it's plus taxes.

  26. #666
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    What an awful shortlist of Prime Ministerial candidates:

    Michael Gove
    Matt Hancock
    Mark Harper
    Jeremy Hunt
    Sajid Javid
    Boris Johnson
    Andrea Leadsom
    Esther McVey
    Dominic Raab
    Rory Stewart

    The pundits are widely predicting a Johnson v Hunt run-off.

  27. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Not yet a recession but it shows how little confidence industry has.

    Now BoJo says he will stiff the EU for the £40B severance fee. That will not endear us to international markets...
    I don't think many people understand. Japan signed a Free Trade deal with the EU. This means that Japan can manufacture cars in Japan, at a cheaper cost, the ship to the EU tariff free. No point in leaving car manufacturing factories open in the UK.

    Don't blame Brexit, blame the EU for signing a deal in which they were hood-winked.

  28. #668
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    From the first round of the Conservative MP leadership ballot, it looks like our next Prime Minister is going to be Boris Johnson.

  29. #669
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    Chuka Umunna has joined the Lib Dems

    As a social democrat it should be his natural home, but quite a few LDs will be wondering if he can be trusted.

  30. #670
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    Dominic Raab has been knocked out of the Tory leadership race in the latest ballot of MPs, leaving five candidates in the battle to be the next PM.

    Boris Johnson once again came top of the second ballot, with 126 votes - 12 more than in the first round.

    Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove, Sajid Javid and Rory Stewart also got enough votes to make it into the next round.

    Mr Raab did not get through, after getting 30 votes, three less than the minimum needed.

    The former Brexit secretary had called for the UK to leave the EU without a deal on 31 October if necessary.

    He also caused controversy by refusing to rule out suspending Parliament to thwart attempts by MPs to block a no-deal exit.

    The surviving five candidates will take part in a live BBC debate in central London at 20.00 BST.

    Reaction to second leadership ballot
    Mr Hunt again came second in the latest ballot of 313 Tory MPs, with 46 votes - three more than in last week's first vote.

    Mr Gove and Mr Javid also increased their level of support - by four and 10 votes to 46 and 33 votes respectively.

    But it was Rory Stewart, the international development secretary, who made the biggest stride forward, nearly doubling his backing from 19 to 37 votes.

    'Not done yet'
    Tory MP Gillian Keegan said Mr Stewart was appealing to his colleagues because of his "realistic plan" for Brexit and his progress showed there was a "market for honest politicians".

    "I think Rory is extraordinary. He has star quality you don't often see in politics."

    Johnny Mercer, a supporter of Mr Johnson, said he was pleased by his performance but conceded the contest "was not done yet".

    Defence Secretary Penny Mordaunt, who is backing Mr Hunt for the top job, said he remained in a "strong" second place.

    She told the BBC the foreign secretary remained "a serious candidate for a serious job".

    The BBC's Nicholas Watt said he had been told by a source close to Mr Javid that he would not be dropping out of the race even though he secured the lowest number of votes.

    Simon Hoare, one of Mr Javid's backers, said he was "delighted" the home secretary had made it through to the next stage.

    He said "barring emergencies" Mr Johnson would make it into the final two candidates and appealed to Tory MPs to think "tactically" about who should join him.

    The remaining candidates will face further ballots later this week, where the lowest-ranked MP will be knocked out until only two are left.

    The final two names will then be put to a postal vote of the 160,000 Tory party members, beginning on 22 June, with the winner expected to be announced about four weeks later.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48680189


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  31. #671
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    Emily Maitlis is doing a good job of holding the Tory leadership candidates' feet to the fire in this BBC debate.

    Oh god, Jeremy Hunt is still fantasising about these "technological solutions" to the Irish Border which multiple Government commissions have failed to explain.

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    Maitlis is not putting up with any of Boris's nonsense

  33. #673
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    Hunt should drop out, the last thing this country needs is a Remainer PM pretending to support Leave. The incumbent PM is proof of why.

  34. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Hunt should drop out, the last thing this country needs is a Remainer PM pretending to support Leave. The incumbent PM is proof of why.
    by that token so should Rory & Saj.

  35. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    by that token so should Rory & Saj.
    Agree 100%, but Rory and Saj are not polling in second position.

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  37. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by madwolf View Post

    yikes!
    These people are choosing the next PM.

    God help us all.

  38. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    These people are choosing the next PM.

    God help us all.
    But @Robert ,,, leave means leave!

    there were no problems trading across the irish border before GFA, there will be no problems now

    Alternative arrangements.. technological solutions,,,,, blah blah blah

    Ireland is going to leave EU anyway. /S

    Wonder if our resident brexiters will weigh in.
    Last edited by madwolf; 19th June 2019 at 03:30.

  39. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    These people are choosing the next PM.

    God help us all.
    Yougov poll put LDs ahead too.

    God help us all indeed!

  40. #680
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    Mods, can you change the thread title back to British politics moving forward as it is more than just about Mrs May.

  41. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by madwolf View Post
    But @Robert ,,, leave means leave!

    there were no problems trading across the irish border before GFA, there will be no problems now

    Alternative arrangements.. technological solutions,,,,, blah blah blah

    Ireland is going to leave EU anyway. /S

    Wonder if our resident brexiters will weigh in.
    Utter inanity. English people on the whole do not know or care much about NI.

    We are about to break an international peace treaty in the name of Brexit.

    I am ashamed to be British now. I hope Ireland reunifies and would seriously consider emigration to Ireland.

  42. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Yougov poll put LDs ahead too.

    God help us all indeed!
    So the deal where NI and Scotland leave for an English Brexit doesn't work for you?

  43. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by madwolf View Post
    So the deal where NI and Scotland leave for an English Brexit doesn't work for you?
    As long as democracy prevails, I couldn't care less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    As long as democracy prevails, I couldn't care less.
    Burqa ban, beef ban, Azan ban, holocaust denial ban - all kosher as long as democracy prevails?

  45. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    As long as democracy prevails, I couldn't care less.
    What if BXP forms a government and holds a referendum for internment camps / forced repatriation for brown people, and white Britons get scared enough to vote it through? Democracy prevails?

  46. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by madwolf View Post
    Burqa ban, beef ban, Azan ban, holocaust denial ban - all kosher as long as democracy prevails?
    Wow! If you're arguments are based on hypotheticals.

    You either respect a democratic result, or you do not - but stop crying because the result didn't go your way.

  47. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    What if BXP forms a government and holds a referendum for internment camps / forced repatriation for brown people, and white Britons get scared enough to vote it through? Democracy prevails?
    What if my gran had 4 wheels? She would be a bus. What's with the hypotheticals? Lets deal with reality.

    If you suppress a democratic result, then rise of right wing populous politics, breakdown in trust, and civil unrest will ensue. If people are ignored, then right wing populous politics will ensue. If the result of the largest democratic result is ignored, then democracy is dead in the UK, and you will have bigger problems than the hypothetical you have mentioned - current status of the UK.

    You and I know this entire mess is down to austerity, and austerity is the result of a failed capitalist model. Talk to me about how past, present, and future governments have dealt/will deal with austerity and how the current capitalist model should change to avoid of austerity.

  48. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    What if my gran had 4 wheels? She would be a bus. What's with the hypotheticals? Lets deal with reality.

    If you suppress a democratic result, then rise of right wing populous politics, breakdown in trust, and civil unrest will ensue. If people are ignored, then right wing populous politics will ensue. If the result of the largest democratic result is ignored, then democracy is dead in the UK, and you will have bigger problems than the hypothetical you have mentioned - current status of the UK.

    You and I know this entire mess is down to austerity, and austerity is the result of a failed capitalist model. Talk to me about how past, present, and future governments have dealt/will deal with austerity and how the current capitalist model should change to avoid of austerity.
    I am extending your metaphor to see how far you think plebiscites based largely on ignorance and fear of the Other are an acceptable way to govern.

    Austerity to some degree was inevitable given the 2008 crash. The USA was first to get out of recession due to public sector cuts but also stimulation of industry, giving the big car firms cheap loans to expand, for example. In future, government should have more legislative control and oversight to prevent another sub-prime mortgage disaster and subsequent bank bailout.

  49. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I am extending your metaphor to see how far you think plebiscites based largely on ignorance and fear of the Other are an acceptable way to govern.
    The 2016 plebiscite was the result of austerity, which followed the rise of righting populous politics, UKIP. The seeds of the EU referendum were planted very much after 2008 crash, but blossomed when UKIP won 4 Million votes in 2015.

    Had Remain won, you would not be mentioning fear and ignorance, but the reality is Leave won because voices and concerns were ignored. The EU referendum was not to change the constitution nor was it to change the way we are governed, but had everything to do with how British is influence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Austerity to some degree was inevitable given the 2008 crash. The USA was first to get out of recession due to public sector cuts but also stimulation of industry, giving the big car firms cheap loans to expand, for example. In future, government should have more legislative control and oversight to prevent another sub-prime mortgage disaster and subsequent bank bailout.
    The USA pulled out due to 2 aspects, Agriculture, and manufacturing. If the ground doesn't grow anything, there is no economy. BOth aspects which are pretty much non existent in the UK. After all, the economy is the number one fear when pulling out of the EU isn't it?

    You are focusing on preventing another subprime crisis as a solution? No mate, subprime was just a trigger, and in the future it will be another trigger such as the Bond market, or car loans!

    The problem is that capitalism can only exist if debt exists. If people are not in debt then the system breaks down. This fundamental flaw must change because when people have money in their pockets they do not care who is in power and for how long - no coincidence the most decisive PMs of the UK were Blair and Thatcher, who served the longest because the economy was booming under their tenure. However when people do not have enough to put food on the table, they will blame someone else, and hey presto, right wing views become prevalent.

  50. #690
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    The plebiscite had little to do with UKIP who had no MPs and little chance of any. It was Cameron trying to put to bed a twenty year row in the Tory party.

    I am happy to admit that I voted Remain from a position of ignorance though I am better informed now.

    British agriculture is a strong sector. Come out of the Smoke to the shires and have a look. British manufacturing is not what is was in the sixties but we still make plenty of stuff. The Coalition should have stimulated growth like Obama did.

    My comment about control over on the subprime market can be generalised across many sectors.

    Actually Thatcher presided over two recessions in the boom and bust cycle and was only returned to power in 1983 because of the Falklands Factor and national euphoria over the birth of Prince William. I was there to watch. Blair certainly benefitted from an economic boom and was able to use this to pay for better services. Chancellor Brown had a war chest to keep paying for services during the bust years.

  51. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    The plebiscite had little to do with UKIP who had no MPs and little chance of any. It was Cameron trying to put to bed a twenty year row in the Tory party.

    I am happy to admit that I voted Remain from a position of ignorance though I am better informed now.

    British agriculture is a strong sector. Come out of the Smoke to the shires and have a look. British manufacturing is not what is was in the sixties but we still make plenty of stuff. The Coalition should have stimulated growth like Obama did.

    My comment about control over on the subprime market can be generalised across many sectors.

    Actually Thatcher presided over two recessions in the boom and bust cycle and was only returned to power in 1983 because of the Falklands Factor and national euphoria over the birth of Prince William. I was there to watch. Blair certainly benefitted from an economic boom and was able to use this to pay for better services. Chancellor Brown had a war chest to keep paying for services during the bust years.
    The EU referendum was announced by Cameron in Feb 2016, after the 2015 Election results. Lets not pretend 4 Million UKIP votes had no influence despite no MP from UKIP was voted in. It was not the lack of MPs, but the 4 Millions votes lost by Tories to UKIP that mattered.

    The Coalition failed to simulate growth for a number of reasons. The primary reason being Tories and LDs sat at extreme ends and were at loggerheads. It was the second coalition in UK history after WW2. Coalitions do not work in the UK, but the coalition was the result of austerity, the people had enough. Moreover, the coalition could not simulate growth because EU law took precedence. For example, VAT could not be reduced without the permission of the EU. New trade deals could not be established because of the EU despite emerging markets booming. The UK was selling it's good to a pot less single market! USA prospered because they were not bound by stupid trade laws, economic limits, and were free to trade with anyone.

    UK does not manufacture enough, and UK's agriculture is a joke.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...-manufacturing

    Take a note of the agriculture share of UK's GDP.

    As for Thatcher, the economic boom was post 1983, thanks to Reaganomics, so anything preceding that year is not relevant to the point. Once the economy was booming, she pretty much secured the next 10 years. None the less, the point is, that the UK has seen 2 periods of economic boom post WW2, one under Thatcher, the other under Blair - longest serving PMs in UK history.

  52. #692
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    Actually the country went back into recession during Thatcherís last few years, though recovering under Ken Clarke in the mid nineties.

    Dunno what your point is about the agricultural base - it occupies 70% of all U.K. land, supports the rural economy and provides for about 60% of our food requirements. After Brexit this latter stat will be a problem unless we can get a free trade deal with Europe.

    Looks like Parliament will be hung again after the next GE so we need coalitions of sorts. There could be a right bloc of Tories / BXP / DUP and a left bloc of Labour / LD / Scot Nats.

    The big postwar economic bloom was in the 1960s - that was when we paid off most of our war debts.

  53. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Actually the country went back into recession during Thatcherís last few years, though recovering under Ken Clarke in the mid nineties.
    Well of course, Thatcher was out by 1992? Served as longest PM. What has mid 90s got to do with anything?


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Dunno what your point is about the agricultural base - it occupies 70% of all U.K. land, supports the rural economy and provides for about 60% of our food requirements. After Brexit this latter stat will be a problem unless we can get a free trade deal with Europe.
    How many spuds, carrots, onions, etc have you seen in supermarkets that grown in the UK and sold in the UK? How much land UK agricultural occupies is not the point, the yield from the land is the point. A UK producer has limits on how much they can sell locally, so my question to you is why 60% and not 100%? We import more from the EU than supply domestically.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Looks like Parliament will be hung again after the next GE so we need coalitions of sorts. There could be a right bloc of Tories / BXP / DUP and a left bloc of Labour / LD / Scot Nats.
    Yup, as there is no direction or unity. This is indicative of how disconnected the government is with the people and proves when the country is booming economically, we have an outright winner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    The big postwar economic bloom was in the 1960s - that was when we paid off most of our war debts.
    Disagree. If the war debts were paid off in the 60s, why did the UK seek a load from the IMF in the 70s?

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  54. #694
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    Rory is out!

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  55. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Rory is out!

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    Waste of time this race, Boris was set to be leader years ago!

    Btw Was Boris's grandad a Muslim?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  56. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post

    Btw Was Boris's grandad a Muslim?
    I heard this yesterday too, and apparently his Grandfather was Turkish!

  57. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    I heard this yesterday too, and apparently his Grandfather was Turkish!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal

    Interesting charachter, his great grandad. Seems like he sold out the Ottamans so was killed.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  58. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Well of course, Thatcher was out by 1992? Served as longest PM. What has mid 90s got to do with anything?




    How many spuds, carrots, onions, etc have you seen in supermarkets that grown in the UK and sold in the UK? How much land UK agricultural occupies is not the point, the yield from the land is the point. A UK producer has limits on how much they can sell locally, so my question to you is why 60% and not 100%? We import more from the EU than supply domestically.




    Yup, as there is no direction or unity. This is indicative of how disconnected the government is with the people and proves when the country is booming economically, we have an outright winner.



    Disagree. If the war debts were paid off in the 60s, why did the UK seek a load from the IMF in the 70s?

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    1. Boom and bust cycles. Thatcher had two recessions and one boom. Blair benefitted from coming during the mid-nineties boom.

    2. We are a small island with a dense population so donít produce enough to feed ourselves. There isnít enough arable land.

    4. A combination of circumstances. After a fiscal bill was defeated by the hard left, investors lost confidence and Sterling fell. The Treasury overstated spending requirements and Callaghan borrowed £18B in todayís terms. It was paid back in three years as it turned out we didnít need it.

  59. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Rory is out!
    He was the only one I rated - an intellectual heavyweight who put evidence before dogma.

    Believe in the bin!

    Clarke and Grieve say they are prepared to crash the Government if it pursues No Deal. There are still some Tory statesmen after all.

  60. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal

    Interesting charachter, his great grandad. Seems like he sold out the Ottamans so was killed.
    the young turks not the ottomans..they were only symbolically in power by then

  61. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    He was the only one I rated - an intellectual heavyweight who put evidence before dogma.

    Believe in the bin!

    Clarke and Grieve say they are prepared to crash the Government if it pursues No Deal. There are still some Tory statesmen after all.
    he was a fraud like the rest of them. Tory ideology needs to be eliminated from the face of the Uk. They offer nothing of value anymore. the only way any of their plans actually work is if you revive the british empire. Which in todays world means sticking to uncle sam like glue, increasing the defence budget and establishing "bases" all across the world to "protect" british interests. I suspect they will go to africa and take a keen interest in the pacific again..there is a reason hong kong is stirring up, expect more trouble in the ME and africa lead by new brexit britain.

  62. #702
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    Sajid Javid out of Tory leadership contest leaving three contenders vying for the job and to be next PM!

  63. #703
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    Gove now in second place! YES! Cannot stand Hunt!

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    Tory leadership: Sajid Javid knocked out of contest

    Sajid Javid has been knocked out of the Tory leadership race, leaving three contenders vying for the job and to be the next prime minister.

    The home secretary received 34 votes, coming behind Jeremy Hunt with 59.

    Michael Gove received 61 votes, leapfrogging Mr Hunt to gain second place; while frontrunner Boris Johnson got 157 votes from MPs.

    MPs have voted in a fifth ballot to select the final two candidates.

    The remaining two MPs will compete in a run-off of the party's 160,000 or so members, and the winner will be announced in the week of 22 July.

    The BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg said: "The question is now, where do Mr Javid's votes go? His supporters have been an interesting mixed bag so it is not easy to read where they go."

    Mr Javid is not expected to endorse anyone publicly this afternoon.

    Leader of the Scottish Conservatives Ruth Davidson - a key supporter of Sajid Javid - said she now wanted Mr Gove in the final two, describing him as "smart, articulate and always on top of detail". Ms Davidson is not an MP and therefore does not get a vote in the fifth ballot.

    Mr Javid said he was "truly humbled by the support I have received".

    If my ambition and conduct in this contest has set an example for anyone, then it has been more than worth it," he said. "These are very challenging times ahead for our party and our government... the Conservatives must continue to be a broad church."

    Addressing his comments to "kids who look and feel a bit different to their classmates" he said: "Don't let anyone try and cut you down to size or say you aren't a big enough figure to aim high.

    "You have as much right as anyone to a seat at the top table."

    Mr Johnson, a former Foreign Secretary, said he was "incredibly grateful" for the support of more than half of all Conservative MP, adding that "we have much more work to do".

    Environment Secretary Mr Gove jumped into second place, overtaking Foreign Secretary Mr Hunt, who had been second in each of the three previous rounds of voting.

    Mr Gove said he was "absolutely delighted" adding: "If I make the final two I look forward to having a civilised debate of ideas about the future of our country."

    Mr Hunt said: "The critical decision now for all colleagues is what choice do we present to the country.

    "Choose me for unity over division, and I will put Boris through his paces and then bring our party and country back together."

    A source close to Mr Hunt told the BBC: "Boris and Michael are great candidates but we have seen their personal psychodrama before.

    Jeremy Hunt is the candidate who can best unify the party."

    Of the 313 Conservative MPs who voted, there were two spoilt ballots.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48707448

  65. #705
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    Every time I think about who may become PM I taste a little vomit in my mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Every time I think about who may become PM I taste a little vomit in my mouth.
    I was just coming here to ask you how you feel about this leadership contest being a Tory voter


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  67. #707
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    Hunt Johnson final
    Gove knocked out last minute
    Political heavyweights duelling
    I love June


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

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    Honestly the UK almost deserves the absolute car crash Hard Brexit on the way.

    Voted for Brexit, understandable in some ways.

    Sheer arrogance and pig headedness in negotiating with EU - idiotic

    Waste 6 month deadline, amazingly STILL wanting to renegotiate - idiotic, arrogant.

    Persist that Brexit is good in face of years of facts and evidence - moronic

    Vote in Brexit party en masse, a more blatant con party you will not find - astoundingly dumb

    Boris as PM - what the actual


    Nah, if a tanked economy is what its gonna take to wake the UK out of its post empire day dreaming then it looks like thats what they're heading for. I have a very very low level of faith in the intelligence of our species and I'm certainly not excluding myself in that, but think to yourself, after three years of this, a solid 30 to 40 percent of Brits seemingly want a No Deal or Hard Brexit.

    They deserve absolutely everything heading their way.


    See You Space Cowboy....

  69. #709
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    Johnson is going to take us out without a deal on 31/10/19 looks like.

  70. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Cozzie View Post
    Honestly the UK almost deserves the absolute car crash Hard Brexit on the way.

    Voted for Brexit, understandable in some ways.

    Sheer arrogance and pig headedness in negotiating with EU - idiotic

    Waste 6 month deadline, amazingly STILL wanting to renegotiate - idiotic, arrogant.

    Persist that Brexit is good in face of years of facts and evidence - moronic

    Vote in Brexit party en masse, a more blatant con party you will not find - astoundingly dumb

    Boris as PM - what the actual


    Nah, if a tanked economy is what its gonna take to wake the UK out of its post empire day dreaming then it looks like thats what they're heading for. I have a very very low level of faith in the intelligence of our species and I'm certainly not excluding myself in that, but think to yourself, after three years of this, a solid 30 to 40 percent of Brits seemingly want a No Deal or Hard Brexit.

    They deserve absolutely everything heading their way.
    I cannot disagree, except remember that there are plenty of us trying to stop the madness and get back to being responsible international citizens again.

  71. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Johnson is going to take us out without a deal on 31/10/19 looks like.
    That would finish the Tory party. The electorate will not forgive them for the resulting Depression. He is not that mad, surely.

    Anyway he won’t get the votes in Parliament. Some decent Tories will rebel.

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  73. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    That was bang out of order. A real man does not rough women up.

  74. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Cozzie View Post
    Honestly the UK almost deserves the absolute car crash Hard Brexit on the way.

    Voted for Brexit, understandable in some ways.

    Sheer arrogance and pig headedness in negotiating with EU - idiotic

    Waste 6 month deadline, amazingly STILL wanting to renegotiate - idiotic, arrogant.

    Persist that Brexit is good in face of years of facts and evidence - moronic

    Vote in Brexit party en masse, a more blatant con party you will not find - astoundingly dumb

    Boris as PM - what the actual


    Nah, if a tanked economy is what its gonna take to wake the UK out of its post empire day dreaming then it looks like thats what they're heading for. I have a very very low level of faith in the intelligence of our species and I'm certainly not excluding myself in that, but think to yourself, after three years of this, a solid 30 to 40 percent of Brits seemingly want a No Deal or Hard Brexit.

    They deserve absolutely everything heading their way.
    In Islam we are told that you recognise a people by the leaders that lead them. boris is a racist,philandering, lieing, cheating opportunist, islamaphobe. What does that say about the british?

  75. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    I was just coming here to ask you how you feel about this leadership contest being a Tory voter
    My vote will most likely go to the Lib Dems

  76. #716
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    MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist

    Greenpeace has accused Foreign Office minister Mark Field of assault, after he pushed a female activist out of a black-tie City event.

    Mr Field claimed he reacted "instinctively" and has referred himself to the Cabinet Office for an investigation.

    He also apologised to the woman for "grabbing her" but said he was worried she may have been armed.

    The Tory MP has been widely criticised but some people defended his actions.

    Thursday night's incident - filmed by TV news cameras - happened after climate change protesters disrupted the beginning of Chancellor Philip Hammond's annual Mansion House speech about the state of the UK economy.

    Dozens of activists - dressed in suits, red dresses and sashes - "gatecrashed" the dinner, according to Greenpeace, and refused to leave.

    Climate protesters disrupt Hammond's speech
    Footage shows Mr Field getting out of his seat and stopping one female protester by pushing her against a column and marching her out of the room.

    City of London Police said it was looking into "a number of third-party reports of a possible assault".

    And Conservative chairman Brandon Lewis told ITV's Good Morning Britain the party would investigate the "full details of what happened".

    Greenpeace campaigner Areeba Hamid told the BBC the activist had been "in shock" on Thursday night, but was recovering and had been reassured by the "outpouring of support" online.

    "I think Mark Field should have a long hard stare at himself and think whether that behaviour is in keeping with someone in public office," she said.

    It was "quite ludicrous" to suggest that the protester might have been armed, Ms Hamid added.

    Labour's shadow women and equalities minister Dawn Butler tweeted: "This is horrific... [Mark Field] must immediately be suspended or sacked."

    Fellow Labour MP Tonia Antoniazzi added: "No one who reacts like this to a peaceful protest should be sitting in our Parliament."

    Meanwhile, Liberal Democrat MP Chuka Umunna described Mr Field's actions as "totally unacceptable" while former Tory MP Sarah Wollaston said it was "absolutely shameful, a male MP marching a woman out of a room by her neck".

    But Conservative MP Johnny Mercer defended Mr Field, tweeting: "Honestly? Try being in our shoes in the current environment.

    "He panicked, he's not trained in restraint and arrest, and if you think this is 'serious violence' you may need to recalibrate your sensitivities. Calm down, move on, and be thankful this wasn't worse."

    Fellow Tory MP Sir Peter Bottomley said attacks on MPs and their staff meant that such protests could not be ignored. "Not intervening often has a cost, and if this becomes a fashion, there will be casualties."

    In a statement to ITV News, Mr Field - who is the Foreign Office minister for Asia and the Pacific - said: "In the confusion many guests understandably felt threatened and when one protester rushed past me towards the top table I instinctively reacted.

    "There was no security present and I was for a split second genuinely worried she might have been armed.

    "As a result I grasped the intruder firmly in order to remove her from the room as swiftly as possible."

    He added: "I deeply regret this episode and unreservedly apologise to the lady concerned for grabbing her but in the current climate I felt the need to act decisively to close down the threat to the safety of those present."

    Mr Field added he would refer himself to the Cabinet Office and fully co-operate with its investigation into whether he had broken the ministerial code.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48714864


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  77. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    In Islam we are told that you recognise a people by the leaders that lead them. boris is a racist,philandering, lieing, cheating opportunist, islamaphobe. What does that say about the british?
    That we are dreadful.

    That we choose to be led by clowns instead of statesmen. So we must be clowns.

    The only hope is that Johnson is so incomplete that there will be a GE and he is removed. But Corbyn will be even less competent.

    We have abandoned reason and are choosing populists who have no substance - maybe some have the brains but not the character and maybe some have character and no brains, but never both.

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    Serves those Greenpeace activists right! What were they expecting by gatecrashing an event? Loves and kisses? These activists need to be taught a lesson; they cannot just barge/intimidate people if they want to be heard! Extinction Rebellion have already caused enough damage and disruption as it is!

  79. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    That would finish the Tory party. The electorate will not forgive them for the resulting Depression. He is not that mad, surely.

    Anyway he won’t get the votes in Parliament. Some decent Tories will rebel.
    Rather finish the Tory party than destroy democracy. The economy can recover, not a system.

  80. #720
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    Police were called to the London home of Boris Johnson and his partner in the early hours of Friday after a neighbour reportedly heard a loud argument.

    The Guardian said Carrie Symonds was heard telling the Conservative MP to "get off me" and "get out of my flat".

    The Metropolitan Police told the BBC it "spoke to all occupants of the address, who were all safe and well".

    In a statement, it said "there was no cause for police action". A spokesman for Mr Johnson said: "No comment".

    The Guardian reported that a neighbour had told the newspaper they heard a woman screaming followed by "slamming and banging".

    The paper said the neighbour was inside their own flat when they recorded the alleged altercation.

    It said that in the recording - heard by the Guardian, but not by the BBC - Mr Johnson was refusing to leave the flat and telling the woman to "get off" his laptop before there was a loud crashing noise.

    Ms Symonds is allegedly heard saying the MP had ruined a sofa with red wine: "You just don't care for anything because you're spoilt. You have no care for money or anything."

    'No offences or concerns'
    In a statement, the Metropolitan Police said: "At 00:24 on Friday 21 June, police responded to a call from a local resident in the SE5 area of Camberwell.

    "The caller was concerned for the welfare of a female neighbour.

    "Police attended and spoke to all occupants of the address, who were all safe and well. There were no offences or concerns apparent to the officers and there was no cause for police action."

    Mr Johnson is the bookmakers' favourite to succeed Theresa May as Conservative leader and the UK's next prime minister.

    The former foreign secretary and Mayor of London is in a run-off with Jeremy Hunt, with Tory party members to vote over the next month.

    Mr Johnson came top in a ballot of Tory MPs on Thursday. The first hustings of the second phase of the leadership campaign takes place on Saturday.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48721211


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