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  1. #1
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    Pakistan's mediocre ODI batting line-up

    Only took 1 game against Top quality opposition in foriegn conditions to show once again how poor our ODI line up is. (Something i mentioned in a few threads before the 1st ODI).

    So pakistan won the CT great effort but it papered over the cracks of our batting which meant a false dawn was always going to happen with the batting line up.

    So top of the order we have fakhar who gives ur aggresion and impetus so thats a positive. Along side he decide to pick Azhar whose games not suited to ODIs, struggles most of time to score at a decent rate and cant rotate strike properly usually. Hes there to take shine of new ball or act as an sheet anchor. Which other teams use a batsmen like him in ODIs??

    No one does. Look at new zealand opening with guptill and munro do either of these guys just blunt the new ball? No they are proactive and positive players.

    Then we come to middle order 3-6, babar, hafeez, malik, sarfraz. All similar mould players who just look to usual accumilate runs, no real big hitters (1 inns by hafeez in CT doesnt all of a sudden make him a power hitters, lets get some reality here).

    Babar azam - good player in making, but scores to slowly at times at times and needs to prove himself against better oppostion (not W.I and SL). For now is say postive.

    Hafeez - tried and tested failure for pretty much most his career as batsmen, walking wicket usual against top oppostion or in tough conditions. Seems management are intent in givinh him a go in ever batting position from.1-11 till he comes good. Poor strike rotator and always has a habit of getting set and then throwing it away. Banned from bowling and simply not good enough to play just as batsmen.

    Malik - on paper has had a good ODI career but when he look at his performances in places like england (where world cup is) or new zealand where we are now hes always been a walking wicket, at his age is he likely to improve? Highly doubtful.

    Sarfaraz - decent batsmen, good accumulator but with 3 players infront of him trying to do same job its overkill. one of few players who csn rotate strike and score at decent rate however when coming down order lacks power game to finish games off and should be higher up.

    The middle order is pedestrian and one passed and made up of batsmen of an average standard overall.

    The one positive down order is introduction of shadab and fahim atleasts addd much needed power or inovative batting which is much needed.

    Sadly the top 6 in ODIs looks unbalanced, lacks thought in make up and is made up of some pretty mediocre batsmen.

    Am sure todays 1st ODI was a reality check for some with batting for those fans with a greater sense of reality todays batting was accident always waiting to happen.

  2. #2
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    As I said in another thread, our fans deserve this humiliation and it was a much needed reality check.

    Our heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, but unfortunately, we never learn.

    It seems that our new coping mechanism (coping with defeats from now on) is to talk about the Champions Trophy and post highlights whenever someone criticizes the team.

    The Champions Trophy has truly replaced the 1992 World Cup, and looks it will be celebrated and glorified for the next 20,000 years.

    We need to come out of the Champions Trophy mode and move on. It is history and it doesn’t matter anymore - when India won the World Cup in 2011, they did not use its glory to excuse their abject performance in England and Australia later that year.

    However, in our case, it seems like it is okay to lose to Sri Lanka and New Zealand because we managed to ride our luck in the Champions Trophy and managed to beat quality sides on a good day.

    Unfortunately, this mentality crept into the team as well. It was quite disappointing to see the specialist captain talk about the win over India in the pre-match presser two days ago.

    As rightly pointed out, the batting unit is extremely ordinary and this is why we cannot be the top teams consistently, and have to rely on one-off wins.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 6th January 2018 at 08:36.

  3. #3
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    One ODI game. Learn to watch the series first then all is justified.

    No one's been humiliated and this is not a national disaster.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    One ODI game. Learn to watch the series first then all is justified.

    No one's been humiliated and this is not a national disaster.
    Came in here to write this.

  5. #5
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    Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz gives you no confidence against quality fast bowling, this is not this match reaction but seen them over the years.


    Pakistan 4 to 6 is a weak link, and give Azhar Ali a whole series before judging him.

    Looking forward to see Faheem and Shadab develop their batting skills
    Last edited by shah_1; 6th January 2018 at 08:46.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz gives you no confidence against quality fast bowling, this is not this match reaction but seen them over the years.


    Pakistan 4 to 6 is a weak link, and give Azhar Ali a whole series before judging him.

    Looking forward to see Faheem and Shadab develop their batting skills
    Which will tell us what?

    His whole career is in front of us. An extremely limited batsman who can score some impact-less runs in Tests because there is no run rate pressure, but a complete liability in ODIs.

    A SR of 80 is the best that he can manage against good bowling attacks and that too once in a while, which is not good enough.

    He needs to go. For good.

  7. #7
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    Our batting was exposed because Babar got out early. Hafeez and Malik at the crease inside the first ten overs is a recipe for disaster. Babar is the glue that holds this batting line-up together, and unfortunately the incompetent Sri Lankan umpire pretty much killed our chase in the first over itself.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    One ODI game. Learn to watch the series first then all is justified.

    No one's been humiliated and this is not a national disaster.
    This.Couldn’t agree more.

  9. #9
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    Azhar Ali hit a hundred in the practice match.No way he is getting dropped.

  10. #10
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    This should be your typical line up.

    1.Sharjeel
    2.Fakhar
    3.Babar
    4.Haris
    5.Sarfraz + * (Not above 5 as he's poor against pace and not below 5 as he's poor at hitting)
    6.???? (Pure hitter)
    7.Shadab
    8.Fahim
    9.Hassan
    10.Amir
    11.Usman


    You can bat till 10.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz gives you no confidence against quality fast bowling, this is not this match reaction but seen them over the years.


    Pakistan 4 to 6 is a weak link, and give Azhar Ali a whole series before judging him.

    Looking forward to see Faheem and Shadab develop their batting skills


    We did better than India, chasing a similar score against us in the CT Final.

    There were some predictable failures here. Hafeez hacking around for 11 balls before getting out. Malik wafting against pace.

    But Sarfraz? Did you notice he got out to spin?

    Look for his innings against Shannon Gabriel in the Windies when everyone else was falling like nine pins around him.

    The real let down here was by the bowlers, in particular the opening ones. Hasan did about as well as he usually does but Amir continues his mediocre form, in conditions relished by Southee and Boult.

    The problem is not the lack of big hitters, but players who can play the ball on its merits, for long innings. 317 is a bit more than six an over.

    First remedy should be to swap the godawful Hafeez for Haris, a real batsman who is good at playing pace. A no brainer. If the world's best allrounder can't bowl he merely becomes a mediocre batsman.

  12. #12
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    Babar is in his current mode is not someone who is going to help you chase down 300+.

    I don’t think his dismissal cost us the game, but him scoring runs would have probably converted a thrashing into a respectable loss, with Pakistan limping and trotting to 250 odd.

  13. #13
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    Notice the pattern here, every youngster selected on merit made good contributions to the scorecard(Except Babar) and the seniors caused the collapse. Can Mickey come out and explain whats the point of having seniors in the team when all they do is place extra pressure on the talented youngsters?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Babar is in his current mode is not someone who is going to help you chase down 300+.

    I don’t think his dismissal cost us the game, but him scoring runs would have probably converted a thrashing into a respectable loss, with Pakistan limping and trotting to 250 odd.
    Babar Azam's dismissal did definitely cost us the game. He is our best batsman. Hafeez and Malik at the crease inside the first 10 overs effectively killed the game right there and then. Specially considering New Zealand for some odd reason played two spinners. Think Sarfraz needs to take more responsibility and come up the order when we lose early wickets, demote Hafeez down the order.

  15. #15
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    Wait till second game.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Babar Azam's dismissal did definitely cost us the game. He is our best batsman. Hafeez and Malik at the crease inside the first 10 overs effectively killed the game right there and then. Specially considering New Zealand for some odd reason played two spinners. Think Sarfraz needs to take more responsibility and come up the order when we lose early wickets, demote Hafeez down the order.
    Best batsman yes, but he starts his innings very slowly these days. It is nearly impossible to chase down big totals when your best batsman takes around 70 balls to score his first 50 runs, unless the other batsmen takes the bull by the horns, and our batsmen are not good enough to do that against quality pacers.

    Williamson played a similar knock but Munro was able to rip our bowling apart early on. Unfortunately, we don’t have such players.

    Azhar doesn’t need any explanation, and Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz cannot score quickly against pace-heavy teams.

    Fakhar is an explosive player but he has limited scoring zones against pacers. They managed to tie him down for the first 15 overs today, and he only got going when Santner came to bowl.

    He doesn’t have the game to hurt their pacers and this is where he is inferior to Sharjeel.

    We lost the game the moment New Zealand crossed 280. Our batting - whether Babar fires or not - is not good enough to chase down big totals against such a quality pace attack that can bowl at a terrifying pace.

    This series has 4-1 written all over it. New Zealand have all bases covered in these conditions. Quality hitters that aren’t intimated by pace, a masterful anchor and a brutal pace attack. We will need a miracle to salvage something from this series. Even a 3-2 loss would be a great result.

    Our best bet is to bat first, score 270 and hope that the bowlers will come to the party. We don’t have the capability to chase big totals, but we can defend one if we get Munro and Guptill cheaply, who was struggling today but can demolish any attack on his day.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    We did better than India, chasing a similar score against us in the CT Final.

    There were some predictable failures here. Hafeez hacking around for 11 balls before getting out. Malik wafting against pace.

    But Sarfraz? Did you notice he got out to spin?

    Look for his innings against Shannon Gabriel in the Windies when everyone else was falling like nine pins around him.

    The real let down here was by the bowlers, in particular the opening ones. Hasan did about as well as he usually does but Amir continues his mediocre form, in conditions relished by Southee and Boult.

    The problem is not the lack of big hitters, but players who can play the ball on its merits, for long innings. 317 is a bit more than six an over.

    First remedy should be to swap the godawful Hafeez for Haris, a real batsman who is good at playing pace. A no brainer. If the world's best allrounder can't bowl he merely becomes a mediocre batsman.
    This is rare instance where Sarfraz came in very early, no 6 batsman usually come around 30 overs, where you have little time to settle in and start dominating fast bowling which isn't his strong point. Sarfraz ideal batting position is 4 and 5.
    Last edited by shah_1; 6th January 2018 at 09:50.

  18. #18
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    One of the problems I feel is that our selectors are people from the 90's and the game has moved on. Pitches in Australia, New Zealand, England, and South Africa for limited overs cricket are absolutely flat with very occasional sideways moment. Yet, when the time comes to select players, we select players who need to have technique to survive.

    If the pitch is green, even our so called technical players will fail. If the pitch is flat, which more or less they always are, we will lose a match even before stepping on the field. A green pitch at least offers our seam bowlers something and you can expect a minor miracle from them from time to time.

    We need to rethink our limited overs cricket and build for the future and need to stop labelling hard hitting batsmen as hacks only good for flat conditions. Get in guys who can power hit and work on them instead of trying the other way round.

    Mukhtar has more potential in limited overs cricket than Azhar. He may fail on a green top but on a flat track he can also do a 50 (26) which Azhar can't do.

    Time to get guys like Mukhtar, Sohaib etc. in the team and build an attacking outfit for 2019 by working on their technical flaws rather than trying to teach people to power hit.


    sawaal ye ni k ap ko kyun nikaala, sawaal ye k ap aaye kaisay.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    One ODI game. Learn to watch the series first then all is justified.

    No one's been humiliated and this is not a national disaster.
    5th defeat on bounce (excluding a called off game) in these conditions over last couple of years, same type of batting plans, similar style batting line ups picked, same players failing and exposed. Yet on another thread you stated batting will compete? Based on what? Please tell us what grest quality you see in batting which no one else sees.

    Il watch rest of series and seen plenty series for last 30 years to know this current batting is disaster waiting to happen.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoUgandaCranes View Post
    One of the problems I feel is that our selectors are people from the 90's and the game has moved on. Pitches in Australia, New Zealand, England, and South Africa for limited overs cricket are absolutely flat with very occasional sideways moment. Yet, when the time comes to select players, we select players who need to have technique to survive.

    If the pitch is green, even our so called technical players will fail. If the pitch is flat, which more or less they always are, we will lose a match even before stepping on the field. A green pitch at least offers our seam bowlers something and you can expect a minor miracle from them from time to time.

    We need to rethink our limited overs cricket and build for the future and need to stop labelling hard hitting batsmen as hacks only good for flat conditions. Get in guys who can power hit and work on them instead of trying the other way round.

    Mukhtar has more potential in limited overs cricket than Azhar. He may fail on a green top but on a flat track he can also do a 50 (26) which Azhar can't do.

    Time to get guys like Mukhtar, Sohaib etc. in the team and build an attacking outfit for 2019 by working on their technical flaws rather than trying to teach people to power hit.
    POTW nomination right here. Please send this message to captain and coach.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Azhar Ali hit a hundred in the practice match.No way he is getting dropped.
    That was kiwis plan to keep him picked in the team all series

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    5th defeat on bounce (excluding a called off game) in these conditions over last couple of years, same type of batting plans, similar style batting line ups picked, same players failing and exposed. Yet on another thread you stated batting will compete? Based on what? Please tell us what grest quality you see in batting which no one else sees.

    Il watch rest of series and seen plenty series for last 30 years to know this current batting is disaster waiting to happen.
    The batting line-up in the last two tours were quite different to the current one. Batting is definitely a concern but Fakhar's form is promising and we need Babar to stand up and support him to get to decent totals. Shadab, Faheem and Hasan have shown recently they can use the long handle to power Pakistan to a decent total.

  23. #23
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    All the fears about Pakistan's current batting line up are beginning to come true. I agree with @Mamoon. The champions trophy brought false hope to some of our fans that our team is some world class which it is not especially with this current batting line up which will struggle to chase 250 let alone 300+.

    Pakistani fans ,well half of them on here, were justifying this batting line up because our bowling is so world class that we will never need to chase 300+. What happened today? I always maintained 300 odd runs are pretty normal these days and no matter how good your bowling is you will struggle to contain sides under 300 unless some really really good spells or awful batting.

    Pakistan need to move on from medieval batting strategy and such ancient batsmen who are not capable of batting at 90+ strike rate.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    One ODI game. Learn to watch the series first then all is justified.

    No one's been humiliated and this is not a national disaster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Came in here to write this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    This.Couldn’t agree more.
    Quote Originally Posted by indipper View Post
    Wait till second game.
    You guys are completely ignoring the fact that Pakistan's batting has never delivered other than the India game. Even against Sri Lanka our batting was struggling who has a mediocre bowling line up. People were giving excuses like it's the conditions..now what? the conditions were pretty ideal for batting and yet our batsmen especially the experienced ones chickened out. Malik and Hafeez are nothing but liability at this stage of their career. And Sarfraz is not good enough to bat below 4. Pakistan needs to understand it's batting limitations and overcome before the mega event. We are really running out of time.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    All the fears about Pakistan's current batting line up are beginning to come true. I agree with @Mamoon. The champions trophy brought false hope to some of our fans that our team is some world class which it is not especially with this current batting line up which will struggle to chase 250 let alone 300+.

    Pakistani fans ,well half of them on here, were justifying this batting line up because our bowling is so world class that we will never need to chase 300+. What happened today? I always maintained 300 odd runs are pretty normal these days and no matter how good your bowling is you will struggle to contain sides under 300 unless some really really good spells or awful batting.

    Pakistan need to move on from medieval batting strategy and such ancient batsmen who are not capable of batting at 90+ strike rate.
    But but but..once Misbah retired, we were going to be world beaters..according to yourself...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    That was kiwis plan to keep him picked in the team all series
    Azhar along with Malik and Hafeez are a gift of our champions trophy win. Don't think they are going anywhere soon.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  27. #27
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    I’m more concerned about the fact that Pakistani pacers can’t swing the ball. Didn’t Pakistan pioneer swing bowling? Where is Amir’s pace? Where are the Pakistani fast bowlers?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    As I said in another thread, our fans deserve this humiliation and it was a much needed reality check.

    Our heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, but unfortunately, we never learn.

    It seems that our new coping mechanism (coping with defeats from now on) is to talk about the Champions Trophy and post highlights whenever someone criticizes the team.

    The Champions Trophy has truly replaced the 1992 World Cup, and looks it will be celebrated and glorified for the next 20,000 years.

    We need to come out of the Champions Trophy mode and move on. It is history and it doesn’t matter anymore - when India won the World Cup in 2011, they did not use its glory to excuse their abject performance in England and Australia later that year.

    However, in our case, it seems like it is okay to lose to Sri Lanka and New Zealand because we managed to ride our luck in the Champions Trophy and managed to beat quality sides on a good day.

    Unfortunately, this mentality crept into the team as well. It was quite disappointing to see the specialist captain talk about the win over India in the pre-match presser two days ago.

    As rightly pointed out, the batting unit is extremely ordinary and this is why we cannot be the top teams consistently, and have to rely on one-off wins.
    Go on a Indian forum and you will find that they are still discussing the CT final. This is how much it has affected them. Indian fans will never forget the trashing...Pak fans will never forget the trashing they gave India. Those memories are here to stay.

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    Compulsorily we need to change the playing 11, with this current 11, i sense a whitewash.

    Mohammed Hafeez out
    Haris sohail in

    Ruman Rayees also look ordinary, i have a feeling that pak is lacking a third pacer as Aamir Yamin also won't make any difference.

    To be honest Azhar Ali is also not an odi opener but we don't have any other options so should be persisted with in this series. We need to find an another dynamic opener like Fakhar Zaman (only one comes to mind i.e Sharjeel but unfortunately he is serving his ban).

    Imam too lack the dynamic approach, could partner Azhar in tests. Shahzad is out of favour so does Sami Aslam.

    Time to induct Sahibzada Farhan or Umar Amin to partner Fakhar Zaman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by in_cutter View Post
    But but but..once Misbah retired, we were going to be world beaters..according to yourself...
    I never said we will become world beaters after he goes. Misbah was only half part of the problems. The other half was selectors. They play a key role to define requirements from the players. If we have a selector who rests Azhar to play players like Imam ul Haq who is even more slower than what change can you expect. Things are made worse when we have a specialist captain and liability as a batsman captain. Unless we don't get selectors who encourage players with positive batting mind and a captain who leads from the front, Pakistan's batting struggles will continue.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonty View Post
    I’m more concerned about the fact that Pakistani pacers can’t swing the ball. Didn’t Pakistan pioneer swing bowling? Where is Amir’s pace? Where are the Pakistani fast bowlers?
    This current bowling attack including Junaid relies heavily on slowish pitches as most of them are good with reverse swing but not that good with the new ball.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    One ODI game. Learn to watch the series first then all is justified.

    No one's been humiliated and this is not a national disaster.
    I agree with the op that the middle order is weak and its aint going anywhere some of as these guys have been around for decades. But humiliation? I rather lose a million of these games and hammer Ind in a final any day of the week.

  33. #33
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    Well if you're going to keep on selecting dead wood then the batting is going to keep on struggling. Get Azhar and Hafeez out.

  34. #34
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    On a deadly track the bowlers leaked 315the match was lost there

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    As I said in another thread, our fans deserve this humiliation and it was a much needed reality check.

    Our heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, but unfortunately, we never learn.

    It seems that our new coping mechanism (coping with defeats from now on) is to talk about the Champions Trophy and post highlights whenever someone criticizes the team.

    The Champions Trophy has truly replaced the 1992 World Cup, and looks it will be celebrated and glorified for the next 20,000 years.

    We need to come out of the Champions Trophy mode and move on. It is history and it doesn’t matter anymore - when India won the World Cup in 2011, they did not use its glory to excuse their abject performance in England and Australia later that year.

    However, in our case, it seems like it is okay to lose to Sri Lanka and New Zealand because we managed to ride our luck in the Champions Trophy and managed to beat quality sides on a good day.

    Unfortunately, this mentality crept into the team as well. It was quite disappointing to see the specialist captain talk about the win over India in the pre-match presser two days ago.

    As rightly pointed out, the batting unit is extremely ordinary and this is why we cannot be the top teams consistently, and have to rely on one-off wins.
    Lol I was expecting this. No one in the world is talking about champions trophy right now. I don't know why your having a go at fans for being happy over a big win. We lost because our batting failed and it's one game in overseas conditions not like we've lost to Bangladesh or anything. The team played poorly today but why are you having a go at fans is the real question. Pathetic post as usual after a loss. A Pakistani fan like you doesn't deserve to ever see Pakistan play well because all you do is label it a "fluke"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lehen View Post
    On a deadly track the bowlers leaked 315the match was lost there
    Is that supposed to be funny??


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lehen View Post
    On a deadly track the bowlers leaked 315the match was lost there
    Please watch the match next time.

  38. #38
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    We just need to replace Azhar, Hafeez and Malik with young aggressive batsmen and we will have a decent batting line up. Good PSL by youngsters may push selectors to drop seniors.

  39. #39
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    We are a mediocre batting unit and it is clear by now that Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz are not going to chase anything above 280.

    Haris will be a huge upgrade but not sure if even he will bring about any noticeable change in our fortunes in NZ...

  40. #40
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    Very simply, our batting line up is not suitable for modern ODI. We need to stop with the tried and tested failures and induct new players who can play the modern game.

    1.Sharjeel
    2.Fakhar
    3.Babar
    4.Haris
    5.Shoaib Maqsood
    6.Umar Akmal (keeper)
    7.Shadab
    8.Fahim/Imad (depending on conditions)
    9.Hassan
    10.Amir
    11.Usman/Rummas/Ideally some genuine speedester


    You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example. (TMQ - 33:21)

  41. #41
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    I think Pakistan got a bit unlucky with Babar's decision and that caused a little bit of a panic. I liked what I saw even though some self-loathing Pakistanis will disagree, but that is expected as usual.

    One change I would like to see is Harris Sohail in for either Sohaib Malik or Hafeez since neither one of them can bowl and I feel Harris is a better batsmen than both especially against pace.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    As I said in another thread, our fans deserve this humiliation and it was a much needed reality check.

    Our heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, but unfortunately, we never learn.
    To be fair, quite a few of us knew what was coming if we persisted with the likes Azhar Ali and Hafeez. Malik, I feel still has some utility. Clearly, the middle order is weak and what was expected actually unfurled before our very own eyes.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    Very simply, our batting line up is not suitable for modern ODI. We need to stop with the tried and tested failures and induct new players who can play the modern game.

    1.Sharjeel
    2.Fakhar
    3.Babar
    4.Haris
    5.Shoaib Maqsood
    6.Umar Akmal (keeper)
    7.Shadab
    8.Fahim/Imad (depending on conditions)
    9.Hassan
    10.Amir
    11.Usman/Rummas/Ideally some genuine speedester
    Your team is near perfect actually - Sharjeel isn’t coming back, so slot Babar as opener with FZ, Umar+ at 3, Maqsood at 5 and Talat at 6. Two other players desperately needed to be in squad are Saud, Aga Salman and Ruhail Nazir.


    But that “modern” ODI word isn’t correct. People compare Azhar’s stats with Geoff Boycott/Gavaskar and think that he could have been suited for ODI in 70s/80s.......

    Wrong - ODI game has changed so much over the years that you can’t compare stats of different era. Apart from very few like Viv, Zaheer, Javed, Lloyd, Greg, Deano, Gower .... most greats till late 80s had stats like 35/70... for top openers like Grineedge, Gooch, Haynes, Mazid ... batted with SR of 60-65, and I can tell you that these guys would have bettered Amla’s stats these days.

    Players like Azhar Ali are never suited for games where ball is counted, because he is extremely limited with his array of shots. Take yesterday - fortunately he got one at the start that was drifting on his legs, hence that boundary - very next time he missed one on line. His 38/75 sort of stats are built in current context, that too after heavy BD & ZIM bashing on 300+ wickets (same series, just check what our openers did in Mirpur, at the later half of season when it’s a batting paradise there). If I go by that Modern & Olden day’s segregation, I can tell you that debuting in 1975, Azhar Ali would have struggled to manage a stats like 29/48.

    His only utility is as Test opener, because he puts value to his wicket and makes sure that it’s a good ball or great catch to knock him, which is acceptable for that game. Put him at 3 even in Test - he’ll lose tight Tests for PAK almost every time.

  44. #44
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    Yes, Azhar Ali is not a good ODI player and ideally you'd have a quicker-scoring player instead of him. But AA had a good CT and hundred in practice match so he ain't going nowhere. Anyway I'm not the most concerned about him.

    Babar starts slow only when he comes in first 10 overs. He doesn't have the power game to accelerate run rate within powerplay. So he is best suited to coming in after first 10 overs where he can play run-a-ball.

    Malik has been in excellent form lately especially in T20Is. I'd keep him around in LOIs for now. Again, like Azhar, he isn't the biggest culprit.

    Hafeez has to go unfortunately. Him, Azhar and Malik are the players who need to go within the next 2 years, but Hafeez is the worst of the lot and I can't argue for his selection in anyway. A mediocre batsman and fielder?, who is also the oldest player in the team (37) and injury-prone.

    These three can't be booted out all together, so I reckon Hafeez needs to be replaced first.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    We are a mediocre batting unit and it is clear by now that Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz are not going to chase anything above 280.

    Haris will be a huge upgrade but not sure if even he will bring about any noticeable change in our fortunes in NZ...
    Yes, we just need the savior Shehzad back in our team.


    You gotta work until your idols become your rivals.

  46. #46
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    Weve already had a 2 year period since last world cup where we could have transitioned hafeez and malik out of the side, 1stly making Azhar skipper of ODI side and recalling him is a poor effort. But am sure if any changes are made are selectors would probably recall asad shafiq etc. Theres no logic with some team selection or maybe its selection based on seniority or "great experienced failures" as they should be known.

    Realistically in a series against india, south africa, england or new zealand would u back hafeez, malik or azhar to score heavily? i wouldnt.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdul View Post
    Yes, we just need the savior Shehzad back in our team.
    Might aswell recall asad shafiq as well ;)

  48. #48
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    I have never had high hopes of Pakistan chasing a 300 target, but I will take our team 166/6 in 30 overs, after being humiliated with the top order going for 40/5. This is a vast vast improvement, in a side that had no 'so-called' lower order batsman since the days of Misbah. Our tail started at no.5 at one point.

    Shadab, Fahim have shown alot of heart. I am impressed really... just two years ago this was unthinkable

    We were just recently a no.9 ranked team, so I would request our fans to keep their horses in check

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    Very simply, our batting line up is not suitable for modern ODI. We need to stop with the tried and tested failures and induct new players who can play the modern game.

    1.Sharjeel
    2.Fakhar
    3.Babar
    4.Haris
    5.Shoaib Maqsood
    6.Umar Akmal (keeper)
    7.Shadab
    8.Fahim/Imad (depending on conditions)
    9.Hassan
    10.Amir
    11.Usman/Rummas/Ideally some genuine speedester
    Yes we need a captainless side

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    Very simply, our batting line up is not suitable for modern ODI. We need to stop with the tried and tested failures and induct new players who can play the modern game.

    1.Sharjeel
    2.Fakhar
    3.Babar
    4.Haris
    5.Shoaib Maqsood
    6.Umar Akmal (keeper)
    7.Shadab
    8.Fahim/Imad (depending on conditions)
    9.Hassan
    10.Amir
    11.Usman/Rummas/Ideally some genuine speedester
    On the one hand you say we should not bring back tried and tested failures,then you want Umar Akmal back,as a wicket-keeper no less.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoUgandaCranes View Post
    One of the problems I feel is that our selectors are people from the 90's and the game has moved on. Pitches in Australia, New Zealand, England, and South Africa for limited overs cricket are absolutely flat with very occasional sideways moment. Yet, when the time comes to select players, we select players who need to have technique to survive.

    If the pitch is green, even our so called technical players will fail. If the pitch is flat, which more or less they always are, we will lose a match even before stepping on the field. A green pitch at least offers our seam bowlers something and you can expect a minor miracle from them from time to time.

    We need to rethink our limited overs cricket and build for the future and need to stop labelling hard hitting batsmen as hacks only good for flat conditions. Get in guys who can power hit and work on them instead of trying the other way round.

    Mukhtar has more potential in limited overs cricket than Azhar. He may fail on a green top but on a flat track he can also do a 50 (26) which Azhar can't do.

    Time to get guys like Mukhtar, Sohaib etc. in the team and build an attacking outfit for 2019 by working on their technical flaws rather than trying to teach people to power hit.

    exactly.

    we need players who understand strike rotation and stroke play. no more azhar alis or shehzad or hafeez. but management keeps selecting slowpokes when 300 is par score in odis worldwide


    if you are not attacking you are defending. And if you are defending you are losing.

  52. #52
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    We actually need humiliation to get this team better, another cull so to speak.

    I have said it before and ill say it again that we cannot rest on our laurels and think we dont have to play modern cricket.

    For me Azhar and Professor have to go, no ifs and buts. There best is not good enough.

    Sarfraz has to bat at 4, he showed in England he can deliever brillant performances at that position, but has dropped himself down for the sake of the seniors.

    As long as Malik performs he can stay but it has to be constant performance.

    At 6 you need a guy like Talat


    Lower order is quite good, Imad’s injury is a blessing in disguise. He isnt as big of a hitter as Fahim or as dynamic as Shadab.


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkckt View Post
    Notice the pattern here, every youngster selected on merit made good contributions to the scorecard(Except Babar) and the seniors caused the collapse. Can Mickey come out and explain whats the point of having seniors in the team when all they do is place extra pressure on the talented youngsters?
    For crying out loud. Have some respect for the seniors man!

  54. #54
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    The game was lost when the best ODI bowling unit in the world conceded 315 runs. Stupid decision by Sarfaraz to bowl first on a flat wicket.

  55. #55
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    Just need a few tweaks in the line up:

    1) Fakhar
    2) Azhar Ali
    3) Babar
    4) Shoaib Malik
    5) Haris sohail
    6) Faheem Ashraf
    7) Sarfraz
    8) Shadab
    9) Hasan Ali
    10) Amir
    11) Rumman

    Exchanging Hafeez for Haris, and moving sarfraz down the order until he gets his form back will make a big difference.

  56. #56
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    Been saying this for a while. Our batting order is so one dimensional. How can any modern batting line up consist of similar players from 1-6 (with the exception of Fakhar and to some extent, Malik)? Azhar, Babar, Hafeez and Sarfraz effectively do the same job, and it was only going to be a matter of time when this line up was going to be exposed. The guys who CAN provide some impetus to the innings are batting all the way down at 7 and 8 (Shadab and Fahim). Just because our batting fired once in a blue moon in the CT final against India DOES NOT mean our batting unit has turned a corner.

    Hafeez simply has to go or bat at 6 if he must. Sarfraz is a complete waste at that position and he's our best middle order batsman which is why he should be batting at 4. I'm going to cut Malik some slack as he's proven to be a much more dynamic batsman than we all deem him to be. He can up the ante when required and I want him at number 5 at least until the 2019 WC, after which he can gracefully retire. Bringing in Haris Sohail in place of Hafeez at 4 isn't going to make much of a difference as Haris is an accumulator as well, albeit a better one as he can maintain a decent SR. Imo, for the remaining games, we should play Amir Yamin and Haris in place of Azhar and Hafeez.

    My XI for the next few games:

    1) Haris (can easily open and provides a much needed bowling option)
    2) Fakhar
    3) Babar
    4) Sarfraz
    5) Malik
    6) Shadab
    7) Fahim
    8) Yamin
    9) Hassan
    10) Amir
    11) Raees

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Only took 1 game against Top quality opposition in foriegn conditions to show once again how poor our ODI line up is. (Something i mentioned in a few threads before the 1st ODI).

    So pakistan won the CT great effort but it papered over the cracks of our batting which meant a false dawn was always going to happen with the batting line up.

    So top of the order we have fakhar who gives ur aggresion and impetus so thats a positive. Along side he decide to pick Azhar whose games not suited to ODIs, struggles most of time to score at a decent rate and cant rotate strike properly usually. Hes there to take shine of new ball or act as an sheet anchor. Which other teams use a batsmen like him in ODIs??

    No one does. Look at new zealand opening with guptill and munro do either of these guys just blunt the new ball? No they are proactive and positive players.

    Then we come to middle order 3-6, babar, hafeez, malik, sarfraz. All similar mould players who just look to usual accumilate runs, no real big hitters (1 inns by hafeez in CT doesnt all of a sudden make him a power hitters, lets get some reality here).

    Babar azam - good player in making, but scores to slowly at times at times and needs to prove himself against better oppostion (not W.I and SL). For now is say postive.

    Hafeez - tried and tested failure for pretty much most his career as batsmen, walking wicket usual against top oppostion or in tough conditions. Seems management are intent in givinh him a go in ever batting position from.1-11 till he comes good. Poor strike rotator and always has a habit of getting set and then throwing it away. Banned from bowling and simply not good enough to play just as batsmen.

    Malik - on paper has had a good ODI career but when he look at his performances in places like england (where world cup is) or new zealand where we are now hes always been a walking wicket, at his age is he likely to improve? Highly doubtful.

    Sarfaraz - decent batsmen, good accumulator but with 3 players infront of him trying to do same job its overkill. one of few players who csn rotate strike and score at decent rate however when coming down order lacks power game to finish games off and should be higher up.

    The middle order is pedestrian and one passed and made up of batsmen of an average standard overall.

    The one positive down order is introduction of shadab and fahim atleasts addd much needed power or inovative batting which is much needed.

    Sadly the top 6 in ODIs looks unbalanced, lacks thought in make up and is made up of some pretty mediocre batsmen.

    Am sure todays 1st ODI was a reality check for some with batting for those fans with a greater sense of reality todays batting was accident always waiting to happen.
    Tbh our batting lineup was always like this..This batting line up is actually better than all lineups we had post 2000 we have two young players who average 50 plus in ODIs plus we bat deep till 10 hence the reason why we were able to fight back.
    Even in the 1990s only Inzi and Anwer averaged in 40s and when they got out like in 1999 WC Final the whole team got bundled out.

    This team needs to kick out Hafeez,Malik and all players who average below 40 apart from Sarfaraz because he is our best captain plus his batting is better than most WK batsmen Pakistan have produced.

    We also need a good second opener..Imam is a very good choice.Let's see.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdul View Post
    Yes, we just need the savior Shehzad back in our team.
    Cannot do worse than several of the players in the team.

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    I said before the series that NZ would do us. Our batting is only effective on flat tracks. This batting line up may also do well in England. Where the ball moves a bit like in NZ, RSA and Aus our boys look totally out of place. The NZ boys were not even celebrating our loss of wickets to much.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Cannot do worse than several of the players in the team.
    Actually he can...

    Keep him miles away.
    Hafeez and Malik have to be axed and replaced but NOT by Shehzad

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    For crying out loud. Have some respect for the seniors man!
    And that mindset is the reason why players like hafeez are still in the squad

  62. #62
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    Of course, the seniors should be treated with dignity, respect and forwith accorded automatic selection at all times. How dare, anyone challenge their authority.

    In all seriousness though, from this day on, i hope to see see just once in my lifetime a full lineup that is based purely on merit and not due to seniority or some player was the pal of the captain or son of someone in the board. Or even someone was picked to blunt the new ball in ODIs when no other team does that.

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    A good batting performance seems to rely on Fakhar to fire, and that's the problem. Our bowlers can actually bat too and give us useful runs. But the meat of the the batting, hasn't seem to be able to do anything in these conditions so far from the warm up match to the first odi.

    We don't have many mentally strong batsman of Misbah's calibre, when I look at the batting line up apart from Fakhar I don't see anyone who I am confident about scoring 75+ in these conditions.

    If you add scores of hafeez, azam and malik from the warm up match and their first odi match.. they totalled 26 runs!! Thats 6 innings - 26 runs total! Haris and Imam MUST play the next match.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by waleed88 View Post
    Yes we need a captainless side
    If you like me to spell out it - here goes: You first pick the best eleven players and then find the leader from amongst them.


    You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example. (TMQ - 33:21)

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    On the one hand you say we should not bring back tried and tested failures,then you want Umar Akmal back,as a wicket-keeper no less.
    His stats are actually not bad. He has clearly been mismanagement. His problems are in his head which a good management team should be able to address quickly.


    You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example. (TMQ - 33:21)

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    If you like me to spell out it - here goes: You first pick the best eleven players and then find the leader from amongst them.
    Story of our glittered trophy-ful career in our cricketing history.

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    Some bats that need to be in the team.

    Kamran Akmal
    Harris Sohail
    Amir Yamin

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    His stats are actually not bad. He has clearly been mismanagement. His problems are in his head which a good management team should be able to address quickly.
    His stats were good in his first few years as he was very consistent.Check out his LO stats from 2015 and you will get your answer

    He has gotten on the wrong side of Arthur so I doubt he’ll be selected soon.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    Actually he can...

    Keep him miles away.
    Hafeez and Malik have to be axed and replaced but NOT by Shehzad
    LOL I agree.Shehzad is not the answer.

  70. #70
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    Truth be told , if the game lasted full 50 overs. Pakistan may have got nz getting very nervous. Fakhar was batting on 82 and fahim was also batting beautifully. Hassan ali and Amir could more than bat. Marcus Stoinis almost won aus the game .
    Pak unluckily lost 2 wickets in first over. Had baber and fakhar got away with 10 overs. It would have been a diffferent story. We have a very long batting line up with batting up to no10. Hell, Amir scored a 22 ball 50 vs eng

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    You guys are completely ignoring the fact that Pakistan's batting has never delivered other than the India game. Even against Sri Lanka our batting was struggling who has a mediocre bowling line up. People were giving excuses like it's the conditions..now what? the conditions were pretty ideal for batting and yet our batsmen especially the experienced ones chickened out. Malik and Hafeez are nothing but liability at this stage of their career. And Sarfraz is not good enough to bat below 4. Pakistan needs to understand it's batting limitations and overcome before the mega event. We are really running out of time.
    Agreed, but output is supposed to be much much better than that. Wait till next game.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    If you like me to spell out it - here goes: You first pick the best eleven players and then find the leader from amongst them.
    next time PCB picks up a captain they should bring some army general as a captain as it seems to most Pakistani fans would be happy with a captain who can growl at players rather than lead from the front with his own performance.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by indipper View Post
    Agreed, but output is supposed to be much much better than that. Wait till next game.
    You cannot expect Azhar,Hafeez,Malik,Sarfraz to change over night. They have been what they are for years. Mediocrity of years and years can't turn into class no matter how much we wait.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    You cannot expect Azhar,Hafeez,Malik,Sarfraz to change over night. They have been what they are for years. Mediocrity of years and years can't turn into class no matter how much we wait.
    You cannot put Sarfaraz in that category.

    Which Pakistan WK batsman has a better ODI Batting Average than Sarfaraz?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Of course, the seniors should be treated with dignity, respect and forwith accorded automatic selection at all times. How dare, anyone challenge their authority.

    In all seriousness though, from this day on, i hope to see see just once in my lifetime a full lineup that is based purely on merit and not due to seniority or some player was the pal of the captain or son of someone in the board. Or even someone was picked to blunt the new ball in ODIs when no other team does that.

    No idea why Malik or Hafeez are in the team

    Unless their experience of doing squat all down under for the last 15 years classes as experience


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    next time PCB picks up a captain they should bring some army general as a captain as it seems to most Pakistani fans would be happy with a captain who can growl at players rather than lead from the front with his own performance.
    Yes we do not need a run scoring failure captain like Misbah
    We are happy with Sarfaraz

    There are many examples of such captains in history
    Mike Brearley was a terrible player yet one of the most successful captains of England.
    Australia won the WC under Clarke who did not merit a place in the ODI side since Bailey was scoring heavily.

    Think before you post such rubbish.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    Yes we do not need a run scoring failure captain like Misbah
    We are happy with Sarfaraz

    There are many examples of such captains in history
    Mike Brearley was a terrible player yet one of the most successful captains of England.
    Australia won the WC under Clarke who did not merit a place in the ODI side since Bailey was scoring heavily.

    Think before you post such rubbish.
    Sarfraz is not a terrible ODI player by any stretch of imagination. He is batting out of position to accommodate Hafeez and Malik. The criticism levelled at him is ridiculous, considering how most posters here know how the Pakistan system works.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    Yes we do not need a run scoring failure captain like Misbah
    We are happy with Sarfaraz

    There are many examples of such captains in history
    Mike Brearley was a terrible player yet one of the most successful captains of England.
    Australia won the WC under Clarke who did not merit a place in the ODI side since Bailey was scoring heavily.

    Think before you post such rubbish.
    So Sarfraz is Clarke now...I heave heard it all.

    bhai excuses has limits you are taking it too far to defend limited and a lazy player. Sarfraz behaves like a mad kid who lost his toys when he is captaining. When have you seen this sort of behavior from Clarke? Not to forget Clarke was a class batsman and top leader when he got captaincy. Don't compare his ending days to someone who is yet to prove himself as a batsman.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Sarfraz is not a terrible ODI player by any stretch of imagination. He is batting out of position to accommodate Hafeez and Malik. The criticism levelled at him is ridiculous, considering how most posters here know how the Pakistan system works.
    He is only hiding behind Malik and Hafeez. Someone has told him keep exposing them and you will be free from the criticism of any failures. Sarfraz never had traits to lead from the front. It's very harsh truth for some people to digest but he is simply a coward.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    So Sarfraz is Clarke now...I heave heard it all.

    bhai excuses has limits you are taking it too far to defend limited and a lazy player. Sarfraz behaves like a mad kid who lost his toys when he is captaining. When have you seen this sort of behavior from Clarke? Not to forget Clarke was a class batsman and top leader when he got captaincy. Don't compare his ending days to someone who is yet to prove himself as a batsman.
    Tag me i one post where I specifically mention Sarfaraz is Clark?
    What behaviour?Yelling at his players?
    Well we do not mind that he miles better than our so called cool captains like Misbah and Inzi who achieved nothing but humiliation post 2000 and is a league above Kakmal when it comes to keeping and batting.
    So please educate yourself before posting and diverting the topic.
    Do you even know or care to comment about Brearley?

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