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  1. #1
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    Pakistan’s pedestrian bowling attack

    I know there Will be many feeling angry and dejected over Pakistan batsmenís ability to compete in new Zealand. Obviously the problems are real and need addressing But we all know, mediocre senior batsmen will continue to play and young guns will flutter and flatter for a while and then deceive. Until there is major investment in domestic structures, particularly pitches, with money that the pcb refuses or is unable to find this merry go round will continue. Such has been the history of pak cricket over many decades, batting collapses are as frequent as retirements and reinstatements.

    What Iím particularly agreived about is that unlike batting that requires more technical input and is subject to ground/atmospheric conditions, bowling is far more universal. I mean in 100 overs of an ODI both bowling teams face the same ground and atmospheric conditions. So why on earth do our bowlers look so darn Pedestrian? And in conditions where Boult and southee have looked like Walsh and Ambrose.

    Time and time again it looks like we are gifting runs and it appears that teams will happily score over 280/300 for fun against us. Once this happens itís a difficult road back.

    Amir is basically bowling short and defensive and we know ala any English seamer until he pitches up and swings it heís not gonna threaten an edge. Yes the batsmen will let it go but thatís not being effective.

    Hasan, until so recently world no 1 just looks like the third change bowler he was but with no guile or craft

    Ruman and faheem make me nauseas. Such awful actions, they telegraph the seam as they come running in collapse at the wicket when delivering. Ruman bowls lots of slower balls and other balls that are not as slow but who cares as the batsmen have a chance to sip tea while waiting. Basically they are poor mans chaminda vaas.

    Shadab Khan is a lovely bowler but way too inexperienced yet. Needs to work on his control.

    And I canít for the life of me understand our slower ball all rounder strategy I.e if hafeez and Shohaib are going to be our main slow ball all rounder Options then neither can bowl ten overs so then they are batsmen but we should have better batsmen. So who is our slow bowling all rounder.

    Lastly I can not understand our bowling bench! This upsets me more than anything. When junaid was injured we all wrote that he should have been replaced with another pacer. Instead he was replaced with fahim.

    Donít we have better pacers? Or spinning all rounders?

    People may think we are losing this series because of batting but weak batting has been the norm for Pakistan for many decades.

    Itís the decline in bowling that bothers me most.

  2. #2
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    We are missing Junaid Khan. Amir himself said he feels best bowling in tandem with Junaid.

    Donít know why he is bashed so much on PP.

  3. #3
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    They aren't bowling to Pakistan.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    We are missing Junaid Khan. Amir himself said he feels best bowling in tandem with Junaid.

    Don’t know why he is bashed so much on PP.
    Too true. Now we miss him but until very recently he was the most vilified bowler here. Just shows how weak the bench is.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    They aren't bowling to Pakistan.
    Doesn’t matter. We aren’t bowling to Hayden and gilchrist either. Our lines are all wrong, no swing, no seam just straight up and down.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    Doesn’t matter. We aren’t bowling to Hayden and gilchrist either. Our lines are all wrong, no swing, no seam just straight up and down.
    It does matter. We're bowling to a proven world class team in their home conditions.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    Too true. Now we miss him but until very recently he was the most vilified bowler here. Just shows how weak the bench is.
    Tbh.. thereís decent options in Pakistan itís just we arenít making the most of our resources.

    Just ask @Chief Destroyer

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    It does matter. We're bowling to a proven world class team in their home conditions.
    If they were hitting good balls for six then fair enough but we are dishing up tripe. Let’s exclude how good nz batters are and how awful our batsmen. Just consider the lines nz bowl, the length and the pressure they can create.Then Look at the rubbish we bowl time and again especially after the 7-10 overs. Half volleys or too short, no swing no seam juicy half trackers on middle stump etc etc. It’s like watching a club side bowl.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Tbh.. there’s decent options in Pakistan it’s just we aren’t making the most of our resources.

    Just ask @Chief Destroyer
    You know so much is made of these “options” I just don’t believe it anymore. Ruman and faheem were talked up so much but are distinctly ordinary. Shadab has wonderful variety but lacks control.

  10. #10
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    the bowling is not the issue, they are restricting a good batting lineup to par scores, its the batting that is letting the team down

  11. #11
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    Fix the issue which need to be done..it not bowling it is batting.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    Fix the issue which need to be done..it not bowling it is batting.
    It’s the bowling. Batting has always been rubbish. Our tulley baz can smack the ball around if needed.

    New Zealand are scoring way too much and before them England were scoring heavily too. Basically we don’t have decent bowlers that can restrict and take wickets. Especially in pairs.

  13. #13
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    Now PP'ers know the worth of Junaid Khan?


    #Mein inko rolaonga

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    It’s the bowling. Batting has always been rubbish. Our tulley baz can smack the ball around if needed.

    New Zealand are scoring way too much and before them England were scoring heavily too. Basically we don’t have decent bowlers that can restrict and take wickets. Especially in pairs.
    257 wasn't 'way too much' by any stretch of the imagination. It took them time to adjust, and they bowled a lot better today. Junaid Khan is being missed while we are also missing Shenwari who played the last 2-3 LOIs in place of Rumman Raees.

    You can't expect the bowling to keep saving your butt in LOI cricket nowadays. Pakistan has defied the norm time and time again, but it cannot keep happening everytime, specially against batsmen have grown up playing on these grounds.

    The bowling was competitive today. The batting should have showed up and finished the job.

  15. #15
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    Pakistan's fortunes in the CT changed when Junaid replaced Wahab. This way we had 2 pacers opening the bowling and creating pressure on both sides and this allowed the third changer Hassan Ali to maintain pressure as well. Junaid's injury has been really felt this series.

  16. #16
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    I don't see why the bowlers are bearing the brunt of this when we bowled NZ out for 257 and collapsed to 74 all out.

    Yes our bowling could improve but the days of restricting the opposition to 230 in ODIs are gone for the most part, especially in NZ where small boundaries and flat pitches are common. ODIs are a bat-a-thon but our batting simply cannot compete against classier and more powerful lineups.

    Boult and Southee are looking more lethal because yes they're very skilled bowlers, but its A) their home conditions and B) they're bowling at by far the most brittle batting lineup in the Top 6 of the ODI rankings.

  17. #17
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    Bowling is just fine, moreso when you consider the fact that our 3rd and 4th choice pacers are both injured.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I don't see why the bowlers are bearing the brunt of this when we bowled NZ out for 257 and collapsed to 74 all out.

    Yes our bowling could improve but the days of restricting the opposition to 230 in ODIs are gone for the most part, especially in NZ where small boundaries and flat pitches are common. ODIs are a bat-a-thon but our batting simply cannot compete against classier and more powerful lineups.

    Boult and Southee are looking more lethal because yes they're very skilled bowlers, but its A) their home conditions and B) they're bowling at by far the most brittle batting lineup in the Top 6 of the ODI rankings.
    It's just an extension of the mentality that a lot of the 'pundits' have.

    They say that the batsmen just need to score 230 and we will compete.

    Expectations are low from the batsmen while bowlers are expected to win games.

    Sadly, this type of attitude breeds mediocrity.


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  19. #19
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    this is pakistan mentality for you.. batsman all out for 74 !! and we blame our bowlers

  20. #20
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    GEO has some sort of vow to never criticize Hafeez and Malik, and instead spend 30 minutes post-match bashing the bowlers. Not sure what the point is. Do we expect the bowlers to bowl out NZ for 74 in their home conditions?

    Bash the batting, but the bowling has been solid without being spectacular

  21. #21
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    Bowling is fine. I just want to see us introduce another right arm seamer who can hit the deck. Ideally u23 ,6 months under Arthur and Azhar and that bowler could turn into a world beater.

    It's our batting that needs the critiscm.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    257 wasn't 'way too much' by any stretch of the imagination. It took them time to adjust, and they bowled a lot better today. Junaid Khan is being missed while we are also missing Shenwari who played the last 2-3 LOIs in place of Rumman Raees.

    You can't expect the bowling to keep saving your butt in LOI cricket nowadays. Pakistan has defied the norm time and time again, but it cannot keep happening everytime, specially against batsmen have grown up playing on these grounds.

    The bowling was competitive today. The batting should have showed up and finished the job.
    Shenwari has played 2 odi’s and junaid has been out of favour or injured for years. This is the best bowling attack according to selectors and it is very very ordinary.

  23. #23
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    Does anyone think we are missing Imad Wasim?

  24. #24
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    I think bowling has been ok. The batting is the issue. Yes would like a few wickets upfront. But you can’t blame bowling if you can’t chase 260

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I don't see why the bowlers are bearing the brunt of this when we bowled NZ out for 257 and collapsed to 74 all out.

    Yes our bowling could improve but the days of restricting the opposition to 230 in ODIs are gone for the most part, especially in NZ where small boundaries and flat pitches are common. ODIs are a bat-a-thon but our batting simply cannot compete against classier and more powerful lineups.

    Boult and Southee are looking more lethal because yes they're very skilled bowlers, but its A) their home conditions and B) they're bowling at by far the most brittle batting lineup in the Top 6 of the ODI rankings.
    This is a ridiculous post from you honestly!! 257 on this wicket was way above par and 300 odd in the first odi. Let’s assume that we have never had a decent batting line up and almost always relied on one of saeed anwar, Yousuf or inzi to get us to decent scores outside Asia. so please tell me when have we ever been a good batting unit?? It may never happen so let’s accept that.

    The fact is there is nothing stopping us being a great bowling unit that can put the opposition under pressure and give the batsmen real confidence. Throughout the 90’s and 00’s we could do that. This series is exposing how weak our bowling bench strength is. We were not just great because of w’s Or Shohaib in fact you more than anybody would remember the odi hammering in 1992 with w’s. we have been great in odi’s coz our bowlers could sniff out weakness in opposition and pounce time and time again. Even with average bowlers like RANA and razzaq we could do something. Nowadays it’s sad to see the defensive lines our bowlers bowl and play without passion or strategy. They look like lost little kittens just going through the motions.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Pakistan's fortunes in the CT changed when Junaid replaced Wahab. This way we had 2 pacers opening the bowling and creating pressure on both sides and this allowed the third changer Hassan Ali to maintain pressure as well. Junaid's injury has been really felt this series.
    Absolutely. They could have rectified this by choosing a like for like replacement but instead went for bits and pieces cricketers.

  27. #27
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    There's no denying that the squad needed another front-line pacer.

    However, it's fairly pointless to talk about a pedestrian bowling attack when the batting was 16/6 just 20 hours ago.

    At this rate, the bowlers will have to limit the opposition to <100 for us to actually win matches.

    So yeah the bowling could be better but the batting is a far bigger concern.

    I disagree with the notion of "we've always had poor batsmen so we should settle for mediocrity" but I guess that discussion belongs in another thread.


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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    There's no denying that the squad needed another front-line pacer.

    However, it's fairly pointless to talk about a pedestrian bowling attack when the batting was 16/6 just 20 hours ago.

    At this rate, the bowlers will have to limit the opposition to <100 for us to actually win matches.

    So yeah the bowling could be better but the batting is a far bigger concern.

    I disagree with the notion of "we've always had poor batsmen so we should settle for mediocrity" but I guess that discussion belongs in another thread.
    Do you rate Ahmed Bashir ... idk he seemed quite ordinary in the video you uploaded
    Last edited by babajee; 13th January 2018 at 22:27.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Do you rate Ahmed Bashir ... idk he seemed quite ordinary in the video you uploaded...
    Pretty difficult to judge from those couple of overs lol.

    Been trying to locate more videos but found nothing so far, interested in seeing him bowl a longer spell in a proper match. T20 is not really the best format to judge pacers.


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  30. #30
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    I believe barring the new ball, the bowling did very well to restrict NZ to 257. Our best bowling performance on the tour.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    There's no denying that the squad needed another front-line pacer.

    However, it's fairly pointless to talk about a pedestrian bowling attack when the batting was 16/6 just 20 hours ago.

    At this rate, the bowlers will have to limit the opposition to <100 for us to actually win matches.

    So yeah the bowling could be better but the batting is a far bigger concern.

    I disagree with the notion of "we've always had poor batsmen so we should settle for mediocrity" but I guess that discussion belongs in another thread.
    Nobody is saying we should settle for mediocrity. Simply stating a fact that in the last 7/8 years we just can’t produce any decent batsmen that can play on bouncy wickets. Let’s accept it and move on. Now we can produce better bowlers so what’s the reason for such a poor line up with ruman, Mr pie man and faheem imran Khan all rounder. They could be replaced with any number of bowlers tomorrow and good personnel have a way of lifting the whole team.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    Nobody is saying we should settle for mediocrity. Simply stating a fact that in the last 7/8 years we just can’t produce any decent batsmen that can play on bouncy wickets. Let’s accept it and move on. Now we can produce better bowlers so what’s the reason for such a poor line up with ruman, Mr pie man and faheem imran Khan all rounder. They could be replaced with any number of bowlers tomorrow and good personnel have a way of lifting the whole team.
    I will leave the batsmen discussion for another thread to avoid derailing this.

    One more front-line fast-bowler would have done the trick.

    Rumman did well at the death but is really not very useful otherwise, plus his bowling looks to be suited to slower pitches anyway.

    Faheem is in the team as an all-rounder so he's fine as a fourth seamer.


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  33. #33
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    Lol Junaid khan is the worst pacer among the current lot.

    We have been missing Imad wasim early on who enabled reverse swing for Hasan Ali early on.

    But batting is the biggest culprit.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  34. #34
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    Faheem is bits and pieces.

    Rumman is tripe.

    We are desperately short of bowling depth particularly a front line seamer and an off spinner

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    Lol Junaid khan is the worst pacer among the current lot.

    We have been missing Imad wasim early on who enabled reverse swing for Hasan Ali early on.

    But batting is the biggest culprit.
    Ok but you’re never gonna fix the batting. Move on.

  36. #36
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    Hate to say it but whenever Hafeez is not available to bowl, our ODI bowling attack goes down. So why he is in the team as a batsman only is ludicrous.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    This is a ridiculous post from you honestly!! 257 on this wicket was way above par and 300 odd in the first odi. Letís assume that we have never had a decent batting line up and almost always relied on one of saeed anwar, Yousuf or inzi to get us to decent scores outside Asia. so please tell me when have we ever been a good batting unit?? It may never happen so letís accept that.

    The fact is there is nothing stopping us being a great bowling unit that can put the opposition under pressure and give the batsmen real confidence. Throughout the 90ís and 00ís we could do that. This series is exposing how weak our bowling bench strength is. We were not just great because of wís Or Shohaib in fact you more than anybody would remember the odi hammering in 1992 with wís. we have been great in odiís coz our bowlers could sniff out weakness in opposition and pounce time and time again. Even with average bowlers like RANA and razzaq we could do something. Nowadays itís sad to see the defensive lines our bowlers bowl and play without passion or strategy. They look like lost little kittens just going through the motions.
    You are forgetting that current rules and pitches are favoring batsmen more and hence your 90's approach wont work anymore.I can say with confidence that your 90's lot and 00's lot would have smashed to smithereens if they were playing now.And your fielding was much worse back then.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakHammer View Post
    Hate to say it but whenever Hafeez is not available to bowl, our ODI bowling attack goes down. So why he is in the team as a batsman only is ludicrous.
    he is not available obviously because he chucks. the precise view would be: "i hate to say it but whenever hafeez not being allowed to chuck or odi bowling attack goes down"

  39. #39
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    This is the same bowling attack that won Pak CT just 6 months ago. They canít be considered pedestrian just over a span of 3 ODI Ďs.

  40. #40
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    I personally think our bowling is fine, in fact I think this is the bowling attack we should go with more often. The problem is our batsman fail most of the time.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    Shenwari has played 2 odi’s and junaid has been out of favour or injured for years. This is the best bowling attack according to selectors and it is very very ordinary.
    This bowling attack is not first choice. And they haven't done all that bad so far. Ask any neutral or Kiwi fan, they would tell you same thing. They would, on the other hand, roll around laughing on the floor on the state of our batters.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    This bowling attack is not first choice. And they haven't done all that bad so far. Ask any neutral or Kiwi fan, they would tell you same thing. They would, on the other hand, roll around laughing on the floor on the state of our batters.
    Not first choice? Only junaid is missing who hasn’t been in the team for two years prior to CT and shanwari is only 2 ODIs old. With his injury he might not return the same bowler. What all this is highlighting is that RUMAN AND FAHEEM in particular offer very little with the ball despite the hype. So our back up is rubbish and the cupboard is bare. This Has been a terrible selection process where we have failed to replace like for like. If imad was injured we should have selected any of the left hand slow bowlers as replacements (Harris, nawaz) if hafeez couldn’t bowl we should have gone with another all round offie. If junaid was injured any pacer would be better than bits of pieces garbage.

    In the CT our bowling when clicking and on song made sorting out the batting very easy. Just a couple of changes and everything clicked. Now unless we can get the right combination with bowling our whole team is going to be in disarray.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    Not first choice? Only junaid is missing who hasn’t been in the team for two years prior to CT and shanwari is only 2 ODIs old. With his injury he might not return the same bowler. What all this is highlighting is that RUMAN AND FAHEEM in particular offer very little with the ball despite the hype. So our back up is rubbish and the cupboard is bare. This Has been a terrible selection process where we have failed to replace like for like. If imad was injured we should have selected any of the left hand slow bowlers as replacements (Harris, nawaz) if hafeez couldn’t bowl we should have gone with another all round offie. If junaid was injured any pacer would be better than bits of pieces garbage.

    In the CT our bowling when clicking and on song made sorting out the batting very easy. Just a couple of changes and everything clicked. Now unless we can get the right combination with bowling our whole team is going to be in disarray.
    Faheem and Rumman both bowled really well in the last match. Outperformed Hasan and Amir. Rumman is not a new ball bowler, neither is Faheem. Both cannot play in the same team, but Pakistan has no other choice right now. Junaid and Imad are missing. Both are bashed quite a bit here, but they are an integral part of our LOI teams.

    The one aspect this bowling attack needs to cover is an out and out genuine quick. With skill, not a Wahab Riaz. In New Zealand and Australia you need bowlers who can bowl the heavy ball to push the batter's onto the backfoot, while the other bowlers pick up wickets with good line and length. Besides that, I think the bowling attack is fine.

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    Don't bash me for saying this but we're badly missing hafeez in the middle overs. He usually ties up the batsmen at one end, 45-50/1 in 10 makes a big difference in these crucial middle overs. He allows Hasan to attack with ease knowing there's no need to worry for runsflow. Absence of Junaid, Shinwari & Imad also had a major impact on our bowling unit in all 3 matches.

    I believe that our bowling is still doing fine (Amir needs to take some wickets though), it's our batting lineup that has totally let us down. Bowlers did pretty well in the 3rd ODI & they were on-course to choke down NZ batting in 2nd ODI before rain. Give these bowlers 270-280 runs to defend & they'll definitely do it in these conditions.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    It does matter. We're bowling to a proven world class team in their home conditions.
    Yes I wish people can understand that.

    Same team (NZ) did 4-0 to india and 2-0 to aus, NZ is one of the best limited overs sides in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Faheem and Rumman both bowled really well in the last match. Outperformed Hasan and Amir. Rumman is not a new ball bowler, neither is Faheem. Both cannot play in the same team, but Pakistan has no other choice right now. Junaid and Imad are missing. Both are bashed quite a bit here, but they are an integral part of our LOI teams.

    The one aspect this bowling attack needs to cover is an out and out genuine quick. With skill, not a Wahab Riaz. In New Zealand and Australia you need bowlers who can bowl the heavy ball to push the batter's onto the backfoot, while the other bowlers pick up wickets with good line and length. Besides that, I think the bowling attack is fine.
    You must have really skewed standards to think this is “bowling well”. These 130kph pies half trackers came along at least twice an over. If they are the future then the future is bleak. This is a selection disaster. I don’t blame these kids but the wrong crew is down under.

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    Having rumman in the side is like having a hole in the side of your bucket, the bucket will never be able to be full.

    We're really missing Junaid or Usman khan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Yes I wish people can understand that.

    Same team (NZ) did 4-0 to india and 2-0 to aus, NZ is one of the best limited overs sides in the world.
    So having guptil, Taylor and Williamson at the other end makes us bowl half tracker pies?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Yes I wish people can understand that.

    Same team (NZ) did 4-0 to india and 2-0 to aus, NZ is one of the best limited overs sides in the world.
    The same was said when we played England in 2016 and Australia on the last tour and countless times in South Africa. Yes our batting is awful and perhaps will never improve but our bowling should challenge the opposition regardless of who they are.

  50. #50
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    It's quite apparent that the main issue is the batting but if anyone thinks our bowling is a non-issue, then God bless our cricket. Right now I would probably put this bowling attack at par with England's. Apart from Hasan Ali, there is no bowler in our lineup who can get wickets in cluster. And before anyone mentions Amir, Amir is a has-been with only a couple of performance where he has put the opposition under pressure in his opening spell. He has been utterly poor in his comeback to international cricket. Also injured bowlers do not make the cut in judging how good a bowling attack is. Junaid and Shinwari are both injured and therefore useless to us right now. It pains to say that even India has a better bowling attack at the moment than Pakistan. I would've never thought that one day we would be lacking in bowling against India.

  51. #51
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    What speeds are our u19 fast bowlers operating at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    You must have really skewed standards to think this is “bowling well”. These 130kph pies half trackers came along at least twice an over. If they are the future then the future is bleak. This is a selection disaster. I don’t blame these kids but the wrong crew is down under.
    And your expectations are incredibly unrealistic to the point it's laughable. Our bowling won us 9 ODI matches in a row last year. It won us a series in the West Indies. It got us the only victory we could achieve on the Australian tour. It restricted NZ to a chaseable 257 in a decider. The fact that we continue to bash the bowling after every failure, rather than rip the batting apart top to bottom is disgusting. Batting wins LOI matches. Fix that rather than bash the one aspect that can still win you matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    This is a ridiculous post from you honestly!! 257 on this wicket was way above par and 300 odd in the first odi. Letís assume that we have never had a decent batting line up and almost always relied on one of saeed anwar, Yousuf or inzi to get us to decent scores outside Asia. so please tell me when have we ever been a good batting unit?? It may never happen so letís accept that.

    The fact is there is nothing stopping us being a great bowling unit that can put the opposition under pressure and give the batsmen real confidence. Throughout the 90ís and 00ís we could do that. This series is exposing how weak our bowling bench strength is. We were not just great because of wís Or Shohaib in fact you more than anybody would remember the odi hammering in 1992 with wís. we have been great in odiís coz our bowlers could sniff out weakness in opposition and pounce time and time again. Even with average bowlers like RANA and razzaq we could do something. Nowadays itís sad to see the defensive lines our bowlers bowl and play without passion or strategy. They look like lost little kittens just going through the motions.
    The average 1st innings score at Dunedin is 243 so we bowled them out close to what's a par total at that ground. If our batsmen don't feel confidence chasing 257 then we may as well pack our bags and go home.

    Look I agree we waste the new ball too often and Amir should bowl fuller but the criticism of the bowling does not match the reality. We have the third best bowling attack in terms of averages amongst the Top 9 ODI teams (29.58) and the best economy rate (5.20) since the start of 2017. We're only behind South Africa and New Zealand.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...ults;type=team

    The big difference between the days of the 2 Ws and now is T20 cricket - batsmen are far more attacking and willing to take risks than ever. With small boundaries, flat pitches, powerful bats, free hits and Powerplays - this is the most batsman-friendly era of ODI cricket (not that you could tell when Pakistan bat). Even strong pace attacks like Australia's with Starc and Cummins are getting hammered - see the MCG ODI today.

    That's why the biggest prioritise needs to be to fix the batting and select some powerhitters who can compete with the Guptills and Munros instead of relying on the 90s strategy of restricting opponents to low totals which is harder to do nowadays.

  54. #54
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    It was laughable to see people call the Pakistani attack 'best in the world' only a couple of weeks ago. What is special about this attack? Yes they had a run of 3 good games in the Champions Trophy and bullied lowly Sri Lanka, but there is nothing great about this attack - it is good in certain conditions, and mediocre in the rest.

    Amir is economical, but rarely picks wickets in heaps. We can hide behind the drop catches excuse forever, but even his most ardent supporters have come to terms with the fact that he has a serious problem with taking wickets.

    Rumman Raees is decent on slower pitches with his variations, but he is not someone you want with the new ball. He is not a strike bowler.

    Fahim Ashraf is the definition of mediocrity - garbage action, not enough pace, not enough control and lacks skills as well. Unless he improves his batting and becomes a genuine game-changer in the lower-order (chances are very low), he will prove to be a nothing cricketer.

    Shadab is a very good talent, but he is not going to do much in these conditions. It is not easy to grip the ball and leg-spinners are prone to bowl loose deliveries. He is not going to give NZ - or any team - sleepless nights in these conditions.

    The less said about Malik's bowling the better, and the Chucker will clear the test but eventually get banned again. The cycle will continue.

    There isn't enough bench strength either. Wahab and Rahat are one of the worst bowlers in the world, and Junaid is an average bowler who lacks skills. He cannot swing the ball an inch and can only seam the ball on the odd occasion.

    Most of the time, he is gun barrel straight and his pace is nothing impressive either. He is only useful when the ball is reversing, but that doesn't happen in ODIs anymore. He might get a few fluke wickets every now and then, but there is absolutely nothing special in his bowling.

    A few people are adamant that we have missed him in NZ, but I believe that he would have been very expensive on this short boundaries with his back of length, gun barrel straight bowling.

    The only bright spot is Hasan Ali, who is a genuinely world class ODI bowler. He is carrying our attack and unlike Amir, he gives you wickets and not excuses. The notion that Hasan takes wickets because batsmen attack him but Amir doesn't because they see him out is nonsense.

    Hasan takes wickets because he is very aggressive and forces the batsmen into making mistakes. He hurries onto them unlike Amir, who looks ordinary apart from his usual first two overs where he makes the ball swing. On the contrary, Hasan makes things happen every time he has the ball. Yes he can be expensive on his off-days, but he is a genuine strike bowler.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    The same was said when we played England in 2016 and Australia on the last tour and countless times in South Africa. Yes our batting is awful and perhaps will never improve but our bowling should challenge the opposition regardless of who they are.
    Its not only about who they are but mainly about where we are playing.

    With your logic Indian batting should have worked and won them matches and same goes for Aussies batting and bowling. Opposition + the conditions is a deadly combination, our bowling attack is good but not legendary, to defy opposition + conditions is never easy especially when the opposition is really good and conditions are what is the worst nightmare of your team.

    Dude we did won ODI series in SA in 2013 I guess. We did won one match against Aus in the ODI series and that was bcz of our bowling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    The average 1st innings score at Dunedin is 243 so we bowled them out close to what's a par total at that ground. If our batsmen don't feel confidence chasing 257 then we may as well pack our bags and go home.

    Look I agree we waste the new ball too often and Amir should bowl fuller but the criticism of the bowling does not match the reality. We have the third best bowling attack in terms of averages amongst the Top 9 ODI teams (29.58) and the best economy rate (5.20) since the start of 2017. We're only behind South Africa and New Zealand.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...ults;type=team

    The big difference between the days of the 2 Ws and now is T20 cricket - batsmen are far more attacking and willing to take risks than ever. With small boundaries, flat pitches, powerful bats, free hits and Powerplays - this is the most batsman-friendly era of ODI cricket (not that you could tell when Pakistan bat). Even strong pace attacks like Australia's with Starc and Cummins are getting hammered - see the MCG ODI today.

    That's why the biggest prioritise needs to be to fix the batting and select some powerhitters who can compete with the Guptills and Munros instead of relying on the 90s strategy of restricting opponents to low totals which is harder to do nowadays.
    I was highlighting that even with w’s in conditions and rules favouring bowlers we still managed to get hammered in odi’s consistently. In fact take out match winning contributions of saeed, inzi and Yousuf and misbah and you’ll see we’ve always been a rubbish batting side.

    And you’re stat is interesting. It’s dated from 1 January 2017. Adjust from last 12 months
    And we slip down to 6th

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...ults;type=team

    But the fact is below us in my stat is Australia. And nobody would say Australia are a mediocre odi side. The simple difference is that with Cummins Starc and Hazlewood you have a fantastic bowling nucleus.

    It’s this absence of this I am lamenting.

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    Harsh on Hasan Ali. Not the greatest series for him in terms of economy rate, but he bowled reasonably well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by in_cutter View Post
    What speeds are our u19 fast bowlers operating at?
    I'd be surprised if any single one of them is more than 135 kph.


    it's written. an akmal will never be a hero.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    Having rumman in the side is like having a hole in the side of your bucket, the bucket will never be able to be full.

    We're really missing Junaid or Usman khan.
    Yes we are missing Junaid, in so far as he has been better lately than both Amir and Rumman. Usman had one good game.

    The question is, why can't we give chances to other domestic performers? See under: Sadaf. Who came out top wicket taker in the Departamental Cup, averages 19 in LA cricket, and is the tallest bowler after Irfan. Wasn't Grant Flower talking about bounce in NZ the other day? It boggles the mind.

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    If you compare the Pakistan pace bowlers to the New Zealand attack, there is no comparison.

    The Pakistanis look lethargic, there is no aggression, there is no pace and apart from Hassan Ali there isn't a lot of effort.

    Come on, you are representing your country, at least try.



  61. #61
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    Not sure about the hue and cry for the bowling performances. Yes we haven't had wickets with the new ball, but we still managed to restrict NZ to a chaseable 257 in the last game. The batters escape the wrath time and time again due to this misplaced anger.

    Pakistan is not a good enough team to re-write the template for LOI cricket right now. Our bowlers are very good, but not legendary. I mean seriously, who expects to restrict the likes of Guptill, Munro (on his day), KW, Taylor and Latham to scores around 250 IN THEIR OWN CONDITIONS consistently? Its complete madness. They are some of the most ferocious hitters of the cricket ball. Check out Latham's century in India recently and you'll realize this fact. The disrespect given to the Kiwis on this forum is unbelievable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    Too true. Now we miss him but until very recently he was the most vilified bowler here. Just shows how weak the bench is.
    300 is a par score almost these days. Especially the games played on roads or in small grounds.

    I do think know this but I reckon that we have conceded the least 300s scores out of most of the teams. Other teams are just comfortable chasing 300 . Look at England today. We on the other hand are praying once the chase is over 250


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Not sure about the hue and cry for the bowling performances. Yes we haven't had wickets with the new ball, but we still managed to restrict NZ to a chaseable 257 in the last game. The batters escape the wrath time and time again due to this misplaced anger.

    Pakistan is not a good enough team to re-write the template for LOI cricket right now. Our bowlers are very good, but not legendary. I mean seriously, who expects to restrict the likes of Guptill, Munro (on his day), KW, Taylor and Latham to scores around 250 IN THEIR OWN CONDITIONS consistently? Its complete madness. They are some of the most ferocious hitters of the cricket ball. Check out Latham's century in India recently and you'll realize this fact. The disrespect given to the Kiwis on this forum is unbelievable.
    257 was an above par score on that track.

    Most of the NZ batsmen struggled and a better effort from the bowlers should have restricted NZ even more.



  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    This is the same bowling attack that won Pak CT just 6 months ago. They can’t be considered pedestrian just over a span of 3 ODI ‘s.
    It's actually drastically different

    Hafeez, Imad and Junaid are not playing/bowling.


    #Mein inko rolaonga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    It's actually drastically different

    Hafeez, Imad and Junaid are not playing/bowling.
    Do you think Imad is a key member of our attack?

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Do you think Imad is a key member of our attack?
    He has his days... and is good against teams that don't play spin well.


    #Mein inko rolaonga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    300 is a par score almost these days. Especially the games played on roads or in small grounds.

    I do think know this but I reckon that we have conceded the least 300s scores out of most of the teams. Other teams are just comfortable chasing 300 . Look at England today. We on the other hand are praying once the chase is over 250

    I don't know
    In the last 2 years


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    257 was an above par score on that track.

    Most of the NZ batsmen struggled and a better effort from the bowlers should have restricted NZ even more.
    The new ball was coming on quite nicely onto the bat on this pitch. They kept Guptill relatively quiet in the early overs. They got Munro early. KW was getting frustrated constantly. I thought it was a decent effort from the bowlers. 258 was definitely chaseable on that wicket, if our batters had not had a collective *********.

    Also, Pakistan couldn't have chased even 150 that day the way they batted. When the batters give scorelines such as 32/8, 141/7 constantly, what would you be thinking as a bowler in that team?

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    Sohail Khan and Sadaf Hussain have a strong case for selection for ODI squad but other then that bowling isn't the problem for us in LOIs. It is the batting across all 3 formats which is worrisome and uninspiring, lacking skill for the most part. We have Fakhar & Babar but need to replace others.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    He has his days... and is good against teams that don't play spin well.
    A spin allrounder suits us more really as more teams weaker to spin. And our weaker pacers arent going to trouble even teams better against spin. However Imads unfit and has been wilting bat and ball. however not sure how fahim fits into our side when he bats below shadab at 8 and doesnt bowl full overs. seems kind of wasted had no given role in the team.

    Im not too sold on the bowling attack. Hasanís great, Shadabís good but isnt as lethal as say ajmal and amir keeps things tight but doesnt pick wickets regulatly enough. The rest however seem a bit underpar and inconsistent. I dont see honestly how we can improve our bowling much.

    Our batting on the other hand there are lots of things we can do. Play an extra bat at 7, drop guys like azhar, hafeez. guys like haris and usman, saad, talat etc theyíre at least worth trying out. And of course sarfraz and imad can get fitter that should help. At the moment though a lot of the best performing bats in domestic list A arent even in the squads so we can test them out. There are two dead rubber matches now but we have not really any bench strength to test out.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    The average 1st innings score at Dunedin is 243 so we bowled them out close to what's a par total at that ground. If our batsmen don't feel confidence chasing 257 then we may as well pack our bags and go home.

    Look I agree we waste the new ball too often and Amir should bowl fuller but the criticism of the bowling does not match the reality. We have the third best bowling attack in terms of averages amongst the Top 9 ODI teams (29.58) and the best economy rate (5.20) since the start of 2017. We're only behind South Africa and New Zealand.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...ults;type=team

    The big difference between the days of the 2 Ws and now is T20 cricket - batsmen are far more attacking and willing to take risks than ever. With small boundaries, flat pitches, powerful bats, free hits and Powerplays - this is the most batsman-friendly era of ODI cricket (not that you could tell when Pakistan bat). Even strong pace attacks like Australia's with Starc and Cummins are getting hammered - see the MCG ODI today.

    That's why the biggest prioritise needs to be to fix the batting and select some powerhitters who can compete with the Guptills and Munros instead of relying on the 90s strategy of restricting opponents to low totals which is harder to do nowadays.
    Well put. Our batting is stuck in the stone age because of continued selection of batsmen who lack the skill to play the modern game. Plain and simple.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    And your expectations are incredibly unrealistic to the point it's laughable. Our bowling won us 9 ODI matches in a row last year. It won us a series in the West Indies. It got us the only victory we could achieve on the Australian tour. It restricted NZ to a chaseable 257 in a decider. The fact that we continue to bash the bowling after every failure, rather than rip the batting apart top to bottom is disgusting. Batting wins LOI matches. Fix that rather than bash the one aspect that can still win you matches.
    Word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Not sure about the hue and cry for the bowling performances. Yes we haven't had wickets with the new ball, but we still managed to restrict NZ to a chaseable 257 in the last game. The batters escape the wrath time and time again due to this misplaced anger.

    Pakistan is not a good enough team to re-write the template for LOI cricket right now. Our bowlers are very good, but not legendary. I mean seriously, who expects to restrict the likes of Guptill, Munro (on his day), KW, Taylor and Latham to scores around 250 IN THEIR OWN CONDITIONS consistently? Its complete madness. They are some of the most ferocious hitters of the cricket ball. Check out Latham's century in India recently and you'll realize this fact. The disrespect given to the Kiwis on this forum is unbelievable.
    The batters do not escape the wrath, many of us have realised that it’s no longer worth discussing batting. Some of us here have been watching pak cricket for almost 40 years. There simply is no point in picking flaws any longer.

    This thread is about how woeful the bowling is. Open your eyes man, they are chucking pies. There is no passion no aggression, no skill no strategy. They are just turning up and rolling their arms over. Faheem and ruman should not be shining the shoes of the pak team so awful they are. At first I thought ppers were joking when they said these guys are the future but now I think there is something wrong with some of our posters.

    Just look at how faheem holds the ball, full seam on display and full palm on the leather. Look at how he collapses at the wicket. Look at rumans action, his slower balls are picked so easily.

    As for nz batting if we believe they are so undefeatable then we should go home now. What’s the point of turning up? None of us mind losses, it’s part of the game but to see our bowlers being reduced to such a mediocre level when we may have others that can take their place is just the most frustrating thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    And your expectations are incredibly unrealistic to the point it's laughable. Our bowling won us 9 ODI matches in a row last year. It won us a series in the West Indies. It got us the only victory we could achieve on the Australian tour. It restricted NZ to a chaseable 257 in a decider. The fact that we continue to bash the bowling after every failure, rather than rip the batting apart top to bottom is disgusting. Batting wins LOI matches. Fix that rather than bash the one aspect that can still win you matches.
    Not with this bowling attack!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    It was laughable to see people call the Pakistani attack 'best in the world' only a couple of weeks ago. What is special about this attack? Yes they had a run of 3 good games in the Champions Trophy and bullied lowly Sri Lanka, but there is nothing great about this attack - it is good in certain conditions, and mediocre in the rest.

    Amir is economical, but rarely picks wickets in heaps. We can hide behind the drop catches excuse forever, but even his most ardent supporters have come to terms with the fact that he has a serious problem with taking wickets.

    Rumman Raees is decent on slower pitches with his variations, but he is not someone you want with the new ball. He is not a strike bowler.

    Fahim Ashraf is the definition of mediocrity - garbage action, not enough pace, not enough control and lacks skills as well. Unless he improves his batting and becomes a genuine game-changer in the lower-order (chances are very low), he will prove to be a nothing cricketer.

    Shadab is a very good talent, but he is not going to do much in these conditions. It is not easy to grip the ball and leg-spinners are prone to bowl loose deliveries. He is not going to give NZ - or any team - sleepless nights in these conditions.

    The less said about Malik's bowling the better, and the Chucker will clear the test but eventually get banned again. The cycle will continue.

    There isn't enough bench strength either. Wahab and Rahat are one of the worst bowlers in the world, and Junaid is an average bowler who lacks skills. He cannot swing the ball an inch and can only seam the ball on the odd occasion.

    Most of the time, he is gun barrel straight and his pace is nothing impressive either. He is only useful when the ball is reversing, but that doesn't happen in ODIs anymore. He might get a few fluke wickets every now and then, but there is absolutely nothing special in his bowling.

    A few people are adamant that we have missed him in NZ, but I believe that he would have been very expensive on this short boundaries with his back of length, gun barrel straight bowling.

    The only bright spot is Hasan Ali, who is a genuinely world class ODI bowler. He is carrying our attack and unlike Amir, he gives you wickets and not excuses. The notion that Hasan takes wickets because batsmen attack him but Amir doesn't because they see him out is nonsense.

    Hasan takes wickets because he is very aggressive and forces the batsmen into making mistakes. He hurries onto them unlike Amir, who looks ordinary apart from his usual first two overs where he makes the ball swing. On the contrary, Hasan makes things happen every time he has the ball. Yes he can be expensive on his off-days, but he is a genuine strike bowler.
    Agree with every word of this. Amir needs to be dropped. We need to bring in some decent bowlers if they exist at all in this country of 200 million

  76. #76
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    Absolute garbage ...some of the comments here.
    Our attack is as good as any and quite competitive if you compare it to other attacks around the world.
    We won the CT in 2017 cos of our attack...
    Most teams score over 320/30 these days, so does that mean all attacks are mediocre?
    No.
    Batsman since 2015 World Cup have gone up a few notches, so most attacks these days are negligable.
    Lets get the batters right...which we havent done in the past 20 yrs.
    And hit the hammer where it hurts.

  77. #77
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    Pakistan ODI bowling is good,not great but quite good.People complaining have been spoilt by wasim,waqar and shoaib.You have to know that -
    Its very difficult to replace ATGs.
    Pitches are flatter,and thus overeliance on bowling unit is not a good idea.
    Reverse swing is gone ,the main weapon of pak pacers ,even if it reverses a little batsmen now know how to counter it.

    Pak batting is not good enough for modern day ODI batting standards,that is main problem.

  78. #78
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    Pakistan bowling attack is a reasonably a good one the problem is that they weren't prepared for the conditions of NZ which the kiwis were good at as there the home side. Despite this Pakistan bowlers at time bowled pretty good, sure there were some bad deliveries but reasonably they bowled decently well.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    This is the same bowling attack that won Pak CT just 6 months ago. They canít be considered pedestrian just over a span of 3 ODI Ďs.
    junaid khan key player missing


    Severely Addicted to Pakistan Cricket despite the grave side effects!

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    The batters do not escape the wrath, many of us have realised that it’s no longer worth discussing batting. Some of us here have been watching pak cricket for almost 40 years. There simply is no point in picking flaws any longer.

    This thread is about how woeful the bowling is. Open your eyes man, they are chucking pies. There is no passion no aggression, no skill no strategy. They are just turning up and rolling their arms over. Faheem and ruman should not be shining the shoes of the pak team so awful they are. At first I thought ppers were joking when they said these guys are the future but now I think there is something wrong with some of our posters.

    Just look at how faheem holds the ball, full seam on display and full palm on the leather. Look at how he collapses at the wicket. Look at rumans action, his slower balls are picked so easily.

    As for nz batting if we believe they are so undefeatable then we should go home now. What’s the point of turning up? None of us mind losses, it’s part of the game but to see our bowlers being reduced to such a mediocre level when we may have others that can take their place is just the most frustrating thing.
    Yes the bowlers should shoot out this NZ batting line-up for sub-100 scores, and even then our batsmen would muck it up. As I said, complete madness. Misplaced anger. The only aspect of our cricket that wins us matches is constantly bashed after 2-3 average games. Australia concedes 308 to England, they are still a smashing bowling attack. Starc and Cummins pretty much lose Australia the match by getting man-handled by Roy in the early overs, even with scoreboard pressure (rings a bell?). Starc will still be the best bowler in the world for the likes of @Mamoon and Cummins will still be a future superstar.

    Oh yes we did so much better with passion and aggression man! We had one of the fastest pacers in the world, Wahab Riaz lose us match after match and humiliate himself on the world stage, but yaar passion aur aggression toh tha na. Performance ko goli maaro.

    Get it through your head, until we fix our batting woes, we can never become a decent ODI team. We have the WORST batting line-up in the top 12, even Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Ireland would not have such a one-paced line-up. The bowling can only do so much and it needs certain conditions to be successful. I will say it again, Pakistan is not good enough to transform the template of ODI cricket. Stop thinking that it can consistently defy the odds in a professional sport.

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