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  1. #1
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    Donald Trump blames Democrats for government shutdown

    The federal government officially shut down at 12:01 am on Saturday as Republicans and Democrats remain in a standoff over a spending bill; President Donald Trump is attempting to place the blame on Democrats after lawmakers failed to get enough votes for a short-term bill to fund the government. In light of yesterday’s events, the president canceled a trip to his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida, where he had intended to have a party in celebration of the one-year marker. This is the first time in history the government has truly shut down under one-party control.

    In a series of tweets on Saturday morning, Trump said Democrats are more concerned with illegal immigrants than the military and border security, and that they could have easily reached a deal with Republicans but “decided to play shutdown politics instead.” Both parties, and the president, share blame for the shutdown.

    At the center of the debate is an impasse over immigration — specifically, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which protects some 700,000 immigrants who arrived in the United States as children. Trump rescinded the program in September and called for Congress to come up with a legislative solution; when it did, in a bipartisan deal put together by Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Dick Durbin (D-IL), Trump struck the bill down.

    House Republicans on Thursday passed a bill to fund the government for four weeks and extend the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), which provides health insurance for millions of children, for six years — after failing to reauthorize the program for four months post-expiry. But the bill failed in the Senate, where it needs 60 votes. Forty-five Senate Democrats and five Senate Republicans voted against it, the Democrats saying that the bill needs a DACA fix and the Republicans for varying reasons, including, for some, DACA.

    Republicans have dug in to pit DACA recipients against CHIP, even though they could, presumably, pass a CHIP extension as a standalone bill. They say Democrats are overly focused on DACA and overlooking other pressing matters that will be affected by the shutdown.

    Democrats think they have a strong case for DACA after Trump’s highly-publicized racist tirade in which he called some countries “shitholes” and complained about taking immigrants from countries such as Haiti, El Salvador, and African nations.


    Trump wants to blame the Democrats, but it’s not that simple
    Since the federal government shut down, the White House has attempted to place the blame squarely on Democrats. In a statement on Friday, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Senate Democrats “own the Schumer Shutdown,” referring to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY). She reiterated the point in a Saturday-morning tweet.

    Schumer met with Trump on Friday, reportedly on Trump’s invitation, in an attempt to strike an agreement. Schumer has said that Trump was presented with two bipartisan deals, including one where the Democrats would entertain negotiations for Trump’s proposed wall at the US-Mexico border, but it didn’t work. Trump appears to want something he sees as tougher on immigration, though it’s not clear specifically what.

    What’s worth noting, however, is that Republicans control both houses of Congress and the White House. Getting a bill through the Senate requires 60 votes and therefore some Democratic buy-in, because there are 51 Republicans in the Senate — but five Republicans voted against the House bill as well. One was Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who according to the New York Times did so for procedural reasons. Republican Senators Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Mike Lee (R-UT), and Rand Paul (R-KY) also voted against it. Since last night, #DemocratShutdown, #SchumerShutdown, and #TrumpShutdown have all trended on Twitter.

    As Vox’s Dylan Matthews recently noted, Republicans and Democrats alike purport to believe DACA recipients deserve relief, and Trump has said he wants a “bill of love” that would offer them legal status. Moreover, if Republicans had 50 votes in the Senate, they could conceivably eliminate the filibuster to pass a spending bill without the Democrats. Democrats have clearly decided that it’s worth shutting down the government over DACA, but it’s not clear exactly why Republicans won’t do a deal on DACA given their insistence that they want to.

    Whatever the case, there’s no way of knowing how long the shutdown will last, regardless of who Trump tries to blame.


    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...trump-shutdown

  2. #2
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    He blames Obama in 2013 and said it’s ultimately down to the President.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    ^^^^
    Thank you.
    Another piece of evidence to hight Trump’s hypocrisy...

    This DACA deal was important in that it deals with young kids who have only known America as their home. Some 70,000 people born and bred in the USA and Trump wanted to repeal the bill that gave them a right to remain.

    What does it tell you about the person when this is one of the first things he does when coming into office? Rascist? I think he is as rascist as they come.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    US President Donald Trump has threatened again to declare a national emergency to fund a border wall without Congress's approval.

    "I have the absolute right to declare a national emergency," he told reporters.

    The White House has denied reports it is looking at diverting funds set aside for reconstruction projects.

    A political row over funding the wall has left the US government partially shutdown for 20 days, leaving about 800,000 federal employees without pay.

    President Trump has refused to sign legislation to fund and reopen the government if it does not include $5.7bn (£4.5bn) for a physical barrier along the US-Mexico border.

    But budget talks have come to a standstill as Democrats - who control the House of Representatives - refuse to give him the money.

    Republican leaders insist the party stands behind the president, although some Republican lawmakers have spoken out in favour of ending the shutdown.

    On Thursday, Mr Trump visited a border patrol station in McAllen, in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.

    He said that if Congress did not approve funding for the wall, he would "probably... I would almost say definitely" declare a national emergency to bypass lawmakers.

    But such a move is likely to face legal challenges.

    The money would also have to come from funds allocated by Congress for other purposes - which some Republicans would also oppose.

    But one of his supporters, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, said he could not "see a pathway forward" and urged President Trump to declare a national emergency.

    Analysts say such a move would provide political cover to reopen government while allowing Mr Trump to argue he had done all he could to fulfil one of his main campaign promises.

    The BBC's David Willis in Washington says that, with no further talks with the Democrats planned, declaring an emergency now seems the most likely option for the president.

    NBC News reported on Thursday that Mr Trump had been briefed on one plan that would involve diverting funding allocated to reconstruction projects in disaster areas, including Puerto Rico, to pay for the wall.

    But White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders later denied the reports. "The NBC story is totally false, fake news, but doesn't mean the president won't talk to them at some point," she said.

    How did Trump make his case for the wall?
    Mr Trump spoke at McAllen station, behind a display of weapons and cash said to have been seized by the border patrol.

    He was joined by border patrol agents, and relatives of people killed by illegal immigrants.


    Media captionFive questions about Trump's border wall
    "If we don't have a barrier... you're not going to be able to solve this problem," he said, adding that people faced "hard work", "gruelling problems" and "a lot of death" without it.

    Mr Trump added: "They say a wall is medieval... There are some things that work."

    Has Trump changed his pledge on funding the wall?
    Mr Trump made the border wall a key campaign promise - and pledged to make Mexico pay for it.

    However, speaking on Thursday, Mr Trump claimed he never meant that Mexico would make a one-time payment.

    "When I said Mexico would pay for the wall in front of thousands and thousands of people... obviously I never meant Mexico would write a cheque," he said.

    However, this is contradicted by an archived campaign memo from 2016, where Mr Trump outlined how he planned to "compel Mexico to make a one-time payment" of $5-10bn (£4bn-£8bn) for the wall.

    Mr Trump said on Thursday that, instead of a direct payment, Mexico would be "paying for the wall indirectly, many, many times over", under a new trade deal between the US, Mexico and Canada.

    Economists have disputed this and critics say that any savings incurred due to the deal would go directly to private businesses rather than flow into US Treasury.

    How is the shutdown progressing?
    Partial shutdowns occur when Congress cannot agree a budget by a certain deadline or the president refuses to sign it.

    This shutdown, which began on 22 December, has closed 25% of the government. Of the 800,000 federal employees affected, about 350,000 are furloughed - a kind of temporary lay off - and the rest are working without pay.

    Shutdown negotiations failed on Wednesday when Mr Trump walked out of a meeting with Democratic leaders.

    The president called the meeting "a total waste of time" after top Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer refused to budge on agreeing to legislation that includes funding for a wall.

    The first pay day since the shutdown falls on Friday and will pass without workers getting salaries. They include prison guards, airport security screening staff, and members of the FBI.

    This weekend the shutdown will become the longest in US history.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46827555


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  7. #7
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    This is what happens when you let a rank amateur attain high office.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    This is what happens when you let a rank amateur attain high office.
    As compared to the consummate professionals leading the UK.

  9. #9
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    So it doesn't have anything to do with his unreasonable tantrums?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    As compared to the consummate professionals leading the UK.
    Another triggered and intolerant Trump fan.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Another triggered and intolerant Trump fan.
    Sorry to trigger you I didn't even know you were a Trump fan.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Sorry to trigger you I didn't even know you were a Trump fan.
    Lame trolling right there but I shouldn;t be surprised since you picked that up these kind of traits from your hero Trump lol
    Last edited by topspin; 13th January 2019 at 01:49.

  13. #13
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    GOP senator says Trump declaration of national emergency wouldn't get wall built

    A Republican senator warned on Sunday that if President Donald Trump declares a national emergency on the southern border in order to fund the construction of a border wall, the move is "going to go to court and the wall won't get built."

    "I would hate to see it. Using that act, it would be -- in this instance, it would be a far larger act than has ever occurred in the past, so I'd prefer not. Primarily because if we do that, it's going to go to court and the wall won't get built," Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

    Instead, Johnson said, Trump and congressional Republicans should "keep pressure on Democrats to actually come to the negotiating table in good faith and fund what they've supported in the past."

    Congressional Democrats are engaged in a more than three-week battle with Senate Republicans and the White House over funding for a wall along the southern border. Trump has been mulling the use of a national emergency to fund the project, saying last week that he was nearing a decision on the matter and that he would take the step -- which would likely be subject to an immediate legal challenge -- if talks with Democrats continue to go nowhere.

    Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, said Sunday that Trump told him earlier in the day that he's still considering using his emergency powers to secure funding for the wall.

    "I asked him, 'Mr. President, if you want to go down the emergency path, I stand with you.' He said just 30 minutes ago, 'That's my last — last option. I think the legislative route is the best way to go. Let's make a deal, but I'll do it if I had to,'" Graham told "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace.

    "I would urge (Trump) to open up the government for a short period of time, like three weeks, before he pulls the plug. See if we can get a deal," Graham said. "If we can't at the end of three weeks, all bets are off, see if he can do it by himself through the emergency powers. That's my recommendation."

    Johnson suggested that Congress pass legislation to pay federal employees who are currently working without pay.

    Johnson said he was planning to introduce a bill Monday and hopes Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will bring it onto the floor, and that it will eventually have the support of both Democrats and the President.

    An 'unorthodox' President

    Johnson also responded to a report from The Washington Post that said that Trump has gone to "extraordinary lengths" to conceal details of meetings he's had with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The report cited several officials who said they have never gotten a "reliable readout" of a two-hour meeting in between the to leaders in Helsinki, Finland, last year.

    "But you said earlier this is not a traditional President. He has unorthodox means," Johnson told Tapper. "But he is President of the United States. It's pretty much up to him in terms of who he wants to read into his conversations with world leaders. That's just the basic fact."

    Johnson suggested that leaks from within the administration may be a possible explanation for Trump's behavior.

    "Well, again, I don't want to go speculate, beyond the fact that I know he was burned by leaks in other areas. And he was pretty frustrated by it. So, that might be -- that might be one explanation," he said.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/13/p...ntv/index.html

  14. #14
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    U.S. President Donald Trump proposed an immigration deal on Saturday in a bid to end a 29-day partial government shutdown, including temporary protections for “Dreamers” and other immigrants, but Democrats immediately dismissed it.

    Insisting on his demand for $5.7 billion to fund a U.S.-Mexico border barrier as part of any bill to fully reopen the government, Trump sought to pile pressure on Democrats by appealing to immigrants they have tried to help.

    RELATED COVERAGE
    Factbox: What's in Trump's immigration offer to end U.S. shutdown?
    Factbox: What's in Trump's immigration offer to end U.S. shutdown?
    In a speech from the White House, Trump offered three years of protections for young undocumented immigrants known as “Dreamers,” as well as for holders of temporary protected status (TPS), another class of immigrants.

    Decrying what he called a “badly broken” U.S. immigration system, Trump said, “I am here today to break the logjam and provide Congress with a path forward to end the government shutdown and solve the crisis along the southern border.”

    SPONSORED


    But the protections he proposed fell far short of the path to citizenship for Dreamers that Democrats and some Republicans in Congress have been urging for years.

    In a statement after Trump’s speech, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell called the plan a “bold solution to reopen the government, secure the border, and take bipartisan steps toward addressing current immigration issues.”

    A spokesman for McConnell said he would seek Senate passage of the proposal next week.

    U.S. President Donald Trump delivers remarks on border security and the partial shutdown of the U.S. government from the Diplomatic Room at the White House in Washington, U.S., January 19, 2019. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas
    Democrats insisted talks on border security occur only after the government is reopened. Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer said, “It was the president who singled-handedly took away DACA and TPS protections in the first place. Offering some protections back in exchange for the wall is not a compromise but more hostage taking.”

    Even before Trump spoke, House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi said his offer as reported in advance was “unacceptable,” did not “represent a good-faith effort to restore certainty to people’s lives,” and was unlikely to gain the votes needed to pass the House or the Senate.

    About a quarter of the U.S. government has been partially shut down since Dec. 22, as funding has expired for reasons mostly unrelated to the border or immigration.

    WORK WITH NO PAY
    Some 800,000 federal workers have been staying home on furlough or working without pay.

    Trump has refused to consider legislation needed to fully reopen the government unless it includes $5.7 billion to help pay for a border wall or other barrier, which he says is needed to keep out illegal immigrants and drugs.

    Slideshow (5 Images)
    The full cost of such a barrier could eventually top $24 billion, according to some government estimates.

    Trump also asked Congress for $782 million to hire an additional 2,750 border agents, law enforcement officers and staff, and another $563 million to hire 75 new immigration judge teams to reduce a backlog in immigration courts.

    The Dreamers, mostly young Latinos, are protected from deportation under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which protects certain people who illegally entered the United States as children. It provides about 700,000 immigrants with work permits, but no path to citizenship.

    Pelosi accuses Trump of ''outing' her Afghan trip
    Vice President Mike Pence told reporters Trump’s proposal for the Dreamers and border humanitarian assistance was based on conversations with rank-and-file Democrats.

    He said Trump hopes millions of Americans will pressure Democrats to go along with the deal. Pence said conservatives should not worry that Trump is providing amnesty to Dreamers, saying, “This is not an amnesty.”

    “We hope once people get past the initial statements and initial reaction, when they really look at this legislation, when it comes to the floor of the Senate, they’ll see it as an effort by the president to take ideas from both parties,” said Pence.

    White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said declaring a national emergency on the border to fund a wall without congressional approval remained an option but was not Trump’s preferred solution.

    “Can the Democrats separate themselves from the extreme left and work out a compromise on border security? I think a lot of members want to do that,” Mulvaney said.

    Former President Barack Obama put DACA in place in 2012 through an executive order. Most of his fellow Democrats since then have sought more lasting protection for the Dreamers. The Trump administration said in September 2017 it would rescind DACA, but it remains in effect under court order.

    Temporary Protected Status (TPS) is given to nationals from designated countries affected by armed conflict, natural disaster, or other strife. TPS holders are permitted to work and live in the United States for limited times.

    The Trump administration has shown a deep skepticism toward the TPS program and has moved to revoke the special status for immigrants from El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras and other nations.

    Polls showed Americans increasingly blame Trump for the shutdown, the 19th since the mid-1970s. Most past shutdowns have been brief. The current one has had no impact on three-quarters of the government, including the Department of Defense, which has secure funding.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1PD0KF


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  15. #15
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    No one mentions the fact that the economy has been at its best since 2000.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    As compared to the consummate professionals leading the UK.
    So, please explain why do you think Trump is right?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    No one mentions the fact that the economy has been at its best since 2000.
    and why would they?
    Please explain how this is down to Trump?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    and why would they?
    Please explain how this is down to Trump?
    Because the economy was supposed to get worse with Trump as POTUS.

    He has renegotiated most of Americas trade deals to benefit American companies.

    He has introduced tax reforms that boosted businesses.

    Plus there has been many other reforms that Trump has introduced but they don't get the news coverage if there is no negative information about Trump. Why would they report on the reforms in the prison system when there are more important issues like how many hamburgers he has ordered.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    So, please explain why do you think Trump is right?
    Right about what?.

    I just think it is funny that while the UK is hopelessly floundering around not knowing what to do and how to do it someone by the name of May comes on and calls Trump a rank amateur. Have you noticed the mess that the UK is in right now.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 20th January 2019 at 20:29.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Right about what?.

    I just think it is funny that while the UK is hopelessly floundering around not knowing what to do and how to do it someone by the name of May comes on and calls Trump a rank amateur. Have you noticed the mess that the UK is in right now.

    Absolutely. UK is in the position because of elected representatives, who are peddling lies that suit their agenda. People such as Jacob Rees-Mogg, Farrage, Boris, Iain Duncan Smith, Nadine Dorries are supporting Brexit with outrageous lies because on of the reaosns

    1. It is their ticket to the move from a nobody to a known figure. (JRM, Nadine etc). Had it not been for Brexit, they would not have been so well known in their political career. If Brexit does happen, Boris Johnson could become the PM one day.

    2. Labour is in absolute mess because of a joke of a leader. Had labour had even a slightly better leader, they would have been in power by now.

    3. Most of these guy supporting Brexit are upper class and rich enough that a No-Deal Brexit would not actually harm their personal interests. JRM is a millionaire hedge fund owner. His Hedge funds have opened offices in Dublin because of Brexit. Farrage's kids already German nationals and will head off to Germany when things turn bad in England

    4. The working class people of Britain have had wool pulled over their eyes because of these lying politicians. Britain is no longer the power is used to be. Especially the northern towns that used to have flourishing industries are now struggling, and these lying politicians have made the working class people believe that their problems are due to immigrants.

    Now, I will give you two things
    1. Trump is not amateur. He is extremely professional in lying and cheating and has done so through out his business career
    2. A lying politician is much worse than an amateur one.

    But, please inform me, how is Trump and his wall-mania and closure of the government good for America? How is Trump not to blame for the closure of the government.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 20th January 2019 at 20:29.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Because the economy was supposed to get worse with Trump as POTUS.

    He has renegotiated most of Americas trade deals to benefit American companies.

    He has introduced tax reforms that boosted businesses.

    Plus there has been many other reforms that Trump has introduced but they don't get the news coverage if there is no negative information about Trump. Why would they report on the reforms in the prison system when there are more important issues like how many hamburgers he has ordered.
    Sorry but it’s best I don’t engage with you.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Because the economy was supposed to get worse with Trump as POTUS.

    He has renegotiated most of Americas trade deals to benefit American companies.

    He has introduced tax reforms that boosted businesses.

    Plus there has been many other reforms that Trump has introduced but they don't get the news coverage if there is no negative information about Trump. Why would they report on the reforms in the prison system when there are more important issues like how many hamburgers he has ordered.
    Can you please post actual figures?
    1. Dow Jones hasnt been doing terribly well
    2. US unemployment rate has been at its lowest. I will give you that. But interestingly, its been constantly going down since 2010 and is an effect of a constantly improving economy after the crash of 2001 and 2008. This does not necessarily have to do with Trumps policiies
    3. The tax cuts of $1.5bn have helped the economy. Given. But the tax cuts were for the rich. I would comment on this next time next year, if the economy is still going strong. If it is, then kudos to Trump. Otherwise, Trump will have negatively impacted the economy.

  23. #23
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    Trump supporters are very similar to radical mullahs.

    These people (both classes) fantasize about medieval times and are unable to mentally accept and adapt to reality.

    For example: the radical mullahs around the world want to convert Spain to Al-Andalus; meanwhile the Trumpists/Vox(Spanish neo far right jialas)/Lepens/them British clowns want to bring back la reconquista and slay Muslims

    Both are hopeless and entertaining until they have some power.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post

    But, please inform me, how is Trump and his wall-mania and closure of the government good for America? How is Trump not to blame for the closure of the government.
    I assume that you know that the Democrats have been calling for a wall on the southern border for years and have voted to fund that wall.

    I assume you know that the only reason that the democrats have not approved the funding for the wall is because of the potential to hurt Trump.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I assume that you know that the Democrats have been calling for a wall on the southern border for years and have voted to fund that wall.

    I assume you know that the only reason that the democrats have not approved the funding for the wall is because of the potential to hurt Trump.
    How does that make a difference to suspension of the US government (I did not know about that, and nor will I believe it without a proper source. I will also do my research on this claim of yours).

    The house voted against paying for the wall (including some republicans). Trump has since thrown a sissy fit and suspended the government. Please tell me how this is helping the USA.

  26. #26
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    Secure Fence Act of 2006 was for a partial fence...
    That’s what the Democrats wanted and voted for....

    Not the “great, Great Wall” as Trump wants.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    How does that make a difference to suspension of the US government (I did not know about that, and nor will I believe it without a proper source. I will also do my research on this claim of yours).

    The house voted against paying for the wall (including some republicans). Trump has since thrown a sissy fit and suspended the government. Please tell me how this is helping the USA.
    Democrats wanting a wall was a lie.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Trump supporters are very similar to radical mullahs.

    These people (both classes) fantasize about medieval times and are unable to mentally accept and adapt to reality.

    For example: the radical mullahs around the world want to convert Spain to Al-Andalus; meanwhile the Trumpists/Vox(Spanish neo far right jialas)/Lepens/them British clowns want to bring back la reconquista and slay Muslims

    Both are hopeless and entertaining until they have some power.
    Unfortunately, they have power now. Its no longer a laughing matter. Millions of lives will become worse because of Brexit.

    Have you heard of the poem "first they came.." by Martin Miemoller? That is the world we are living now.

    Brexit will be like

    First they blamed the Europeans, but I did not say a thing, because I was not a European
    Then they came for the Muslims, but I did not say a thing, because I was not a Muslim
    Then they came for the Blacks, but I did not say a thing, because I was not Black
    Then they came for the me, and no one was left to say a word for me.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Secure Fence Act of 2006 was for a partial fence...
    That’s what the Democrats wanted and voted for....

    Not the “great, Great Wall” as Trump wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Democrats wanting a wall was a lie.
    Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected so.

    Alt Right doing again what they do best.....twisting words to pull the wool over common people.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Democrats wanting a wall was a lie.
    Secure fence act 2006 says hi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected so.

    Alt Right doing again what they do best.....twisting words to pull the wool over common people.
    They use the usual deflection tactics too.
    First it was Mexico will pay for it and now it’s Mexico will be “indirectly” for it.
    Now they say “we have to have this wall or you can call it a fence, because that’s what the democrats prefer to call it”...
    “Trump campaign never colluded with Russia”, now its “some of the people may have but Trump never did”..

    Coming to the UK, it’s a complete mess BUT just because the UK is a mess, or Pakistan is a mess, does it mean that we can’t comment on any other country?
    Thankfully PP allows us to comment on any thread....
    Last edited by IMMY69; 20th January 2019 at 16:34.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Secure fence act 2006 says hi.

    I already mentioned it. Thanks

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Can you please post actual figures?
    1. Dow Jones hasnt been doing terribly well
    2. US unemployment rate has been at its lowest. I will give you that. But interestingly, its been constantly going down since 2010 and is an effect of a constantly improving economy after the crash of 2001 and 2008. This does not necessarily have to do with Trumps policiies
    3. The tax cuts of $1.5bn have helped the economy. Given. But the tax cuts were for the rich. I would comment on this next time next year, if the economy is still going strong. If it is, then kudos to Trump. Otherwise, Trump will have negatively impacted the economy.
    Tax cuts help the poor more so than the rich.

    A higher tax-rate causes rich companies to place their assets offshore.

    Which forces the burden of paying taxes to the lower-income households.

    Meanwhile, a lower tax-rate collects more taxes which in return can be invested to the low-income households.

    The fact is that history has proven time and time again that the economic sector performs far better when it is not regulated by governmental means.

    The Depression of the 1920’s being the best example.

    After the Stock Market crash of 1929, President Hoover did absolute zilch to lower the unemployment rate of 12%.

    Yet in two years, it went down to 6%.

    Then FDR came into the picture and the Depression was in full force again. The Dust Bowl did not help of course but his New Deal inititative did far more damage than good.

    The country was saved by WWII and entered its Golden Age.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Tax cuts help the poor more so than the rich.

    A higher tax-rate causes rich companies to place their assets offshore.

    Which forces the burden of paying taxes to the lower-income households.

    Meanwhile, a lower tax-rate collects more taxes which in return can be invested to the low-income households.

    The fact is that history has proven time and time again that the economic sector performs far better when it is not regulated by governmental means.

    The Depression of the 1920’s being the best example.

    After the Stock Market crash of 1929, President Hoover did absolute zilch to lower the unemployment rate of 12%.

    Yet in two years, it went down to 6%.

    Then FDR came into the picture and the Depression was in full force again. The Dust Bowl did not help of course but his New Deal inititative did far more damage than good.

    The country was saved by WWII and entered its Golden Age.
    I didn’t read past the first few lines.
    You’re clearly still in your early teens.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    I didn’t read past the first few lines.
    You’re clearly still in your early teens.
    All I know is that if you raise taxes, people will
    find ways not to pay them.

    Even someone as rich as the head of Louis Vuitton wanted to flee France when he heard that they were going to tax him 70% of his income!

  36. #36
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    Trump backs a move to reopen government for three weeks


    President Trump is announced Friday he'll back a move to reopen the government for a few weeks, so government workers can get paid while the debate over border security continues.

    "I am very pleased to announce that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and open the federal government," Mr. Trump said in an address from the White House Rose Garden, adding that he had the opportunity to declare a national emergency to build the wall but decided not to do so at this time. Mr. Trump also thanked the federal workers who had been furloughed or working without pay.

    "In many cases you encouraged me to keep going because you care so much about our country and our border security," he said to federal workers. He said federal workers would receive back pay "very quickly," or "almost immediately."

    Mr. Trump said that he expected Democrats and Republicans to cooperate on a bill to fund the Department of Homeland Security, although he reiterated that building a wall was important to border security.

    "I really feel that in working with Democrats and Republicans, we can make a truly great and secure deal for everyone," he said. "Walls should not be controversial."

    CBS News chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett reported Friday afternoon that Mr. Trump was expected to back a continuing resolution (CR) -- which would fund the government at current levels.

    CBS News' Rebecca Kaplan reported that leaders zeroed in on an agreement that includes a short-term CR to Feb. 15, and a vehicle to go to conference on the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) funding bill. No money for a border wall would be included in this deal. The seven-bill CR will also include a furloughed employees backpay provision.

    The government shutdown has reached its 35th day, the longest in American history. Around 800,000 federal workers missed their second paycheck this week, with roughly half of them working without pay. Several workers in critical agencies have been calling out sick due to financial difficulties.

    Flights in and out New York City's LaGuardia airport were delayed on Friday morning due to staffing shortages among air traffic controllers, according to a notice issued by the Federal Aviation Administration. Elsewhere, a flight was canceled due to a lack of sufficient TSA staff at the Monroe Louisiana airport Friday morning.

    Earlier Friday, Mr. Trump's former campaign adviser and associate Roger Stone appeared in federal court. Mr. Trump is expected to meet with mayors and pastors later in the day.

    Stone was indicted by a federal grand jury and arrested. The indictment, unsealed Friday, lists seven counts: one count of obstruction of an official proceeding; five counts of false statements; and one count of witness tampering. Stone made his first appearance in federal court Friday morning in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and was to be released on a $250,000 bond.

    Mr. Trump tweeted a response to Stone's indictment, questioning how CNN had obtained footage of the arrest. The CNN reporter said that its crew staked out Stone's house Friday morning after reporters noticed unusual grand jury activity in Washington, D.C., on Thursday and thought something could happen.

    "Greatest Witch Hunt in the History of our Country! NO COLLUSION! Border Coyotes, Drug Dealers and Human Traffickers are treated better. Who alerted CNN to be there?" Mr. Trump wrote.

    White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said earlier on CNN that Stone's arrest and court appearance was completely unrelated to Mr. Trump.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/governm...5-live-stream/


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  37. #37
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    These are the worst times to be living on this planet

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    The Pentagon has authorised the transfer of $1bn (£758m) to army engineers for new wall construction along the US-Mexico border.

    The funds are the first under the national emergency declared by President Donald Trump to bypass Congress and build the barrier he pledged during his election campaign.

    Democrats have protested against the move.

    The funds will be used to build about 57 miles (91km) of fencing.

    President Trump has called the situation at the southern border a "crisis" and insists a physical barrier is needed to stop criminals crossing into the US. His critics say he has manufactured the border emergency.

    A Pentagon statement said acting US Defence Secretary Patrick Shanahan had "authorised the commander of the US Army Corps of Engineers to begin planning and executing up to $1bn in support to the Department of Homeland Security and Customs and Border Patrol".

    The statement cited a federal law that "gives the Department of Defence the authority to construct roads and fences and to install lighting to block drug-smuggling corridors across international boundaries of the United States in support of counter-narcotic activities of federal law enforcement agencies".

    As well the 18ft-high (5m) "pedestrian fencing", the funds will cover road improvements and new lights.

    Democratic senators complained that the Pentagon had not sought permission from the appropriate committees before notifying Congress of the funds transfer.

    "We strongly object to both the substance of the funding transfer, and to the department implementing the transfer without seeking the approval of the congressional defence committees and in violation of provisions in the defence appropriation itself," the senators wrote in a letter to Mr Shanahan, CNN reported.

    Mr Trump declared the emergency on 15 February after Congress refused his requests for $5.7bn (£4.4bn) to construct the wall. By declaring an emergency he sought to bypass Congress and build the wall with military funding.

    Democrats branded the declaration unconstitutional.

    The Democratic-controlled House of Representatives passed a resolution to overturn the emergency last month, and 12 Republicans later sided with Democratic Senators to get it through the Senate.

    Congress will now need a two-thirds majority in both chambers to override him, which correspondents say is unlikely to happen.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47702152


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  39. #39
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    The democrats would have been in much better position had they decided to solve the issues of a common American rather than focusing entirely on criticising Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Because the economy was supposed to get worse with Trump as POTUS.

    He has renegotiated most of Americas trade deals to benefit American companies.

    He has introduced tax reforms that boosted businesses.

    Plus there has been many other reforms that Trump has introduced but they don't get the news coverage if there is no negative information about Trump. Why would they report on the reforms in the prison system when there are more important issues like how many hamburgers he has ordered.
    Partially true. Post Trump election there was a relief rally on the premise that lower taxes would boost the economy.

    Tax reforms meant that businesses saved money by avoiding taxes (but had to move their cash to the USA), where the theory was that said companies would pay/invest more in the people. What really happened was that said companies were investing the saved cash in share buybacks which bolstered the markets. Ask the American Joe Blogg and they are paying more in taxes, new home sales dropped 8.3% last month, job creation was much lower than expected, and the markets are now pricing in a recession. Not forgetting the trade war with China knocked off nearly 3000 points from the DJIA and Trumps policies have added Trillions to the national debt. Did I mention the Fed has pretty much frozen any rate rises for the next 2 years?

    This isn't a sign of a booming economy, or a growing economy, it's the sign of a stagnating economy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    The democrats would have been in much better position had they decided to solve the issues of a common American rather than focusing entirely on criticising Trump.
    Blame Clinton. She some how felt she was entitled to the US Presidency and arm twisted the delegates into nominating her instead of Sanders.

    Love him or hate him, Trump won because of Clinton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    They use the usual deflection tactics too.
    First it was Mexico will pay for it and now it’s Mexico will be “indirectly” for it.
    Now they say “we have to have this wall or you can call it a fence, because that’s what the democrats prefer to call it”...
    “Trump campaign never colluded with Russia”, now its “some of the people may have but Trump never did”..

    Coming to the UK, it’s a complete mess BUT just because the UK is a mess, or Pakistan is a mess, does it mean that we can’t comment on any other country?
    Thankfully PP allows us to comment on any thread....
    Do you honestly believe Trump is the first politician to renege on promises? You must have heard of Theresa the appeaser! She's made more U-Turns than Captain Carney!

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    The Democrats still trying to pinpoint blame for Trump’s win on Russia/Putin, when they should be looking at their own party, in particular Clinton who naused it right up, and Sanders who for heavens sake is 70+ years old!

    Clinton was damaged goods from the moment her husband was caught incognito in the Oval office. If this was not a sign, then the fact she lost the nomination to Obama should’ve have sent shock waves. DNC favoured an African American over a woman – go figure.

    The reality is 2016 was a wake-up call for all politicians. In the USA and UK at least, the government ignored the masses, and when the elections produce a shock result (Trump and Brexit) the losers tried to blame someone/something. Collusion, Foreign interference, Election fraud - blah blah blah - the list goes on.

    People have short term memories and fail to realise that it is austerity that ushers in dramatic changes, not Facebook.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Partially true. Post Trump election there was a relief rally on the premise that lower taxes would boost the economy.

    Tax reforms meant that businesses saved money by avoiding taxes (but had to move their cash to the USA), where the theory was that said companies would pay/invest more in the people. What really happened was that said companies were investing the saved cash in share buybacks which bolstered the markets. Ask the American Joe Blogg and they are paying more in taxes, new home sales dropped 8.3% last month, job creation was much lower than expected, and the markets are now pricing in a recession. Not forgetting the trade war with China knocked off nearly 3000 points from the DJIA and Trumps policies have added Trillions to the national debt. Did I mention the Fed has pretty much frozen any rate rises for the next 2 years?

    This isn't a sign of a booming economy, or a growing economy, it's the sign of a stagnating economy.
    Not entirely true. Amazon alone would have created 25,000 jobs with 150K average salary in NY from the 3 billion dollars tax break had Democrats had someone better than AOC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Not entirely true. Amazon alone would have created 25,000 jobs with 150K average salary in NY from the 3 billion dollars tax break had Democrats had someone better than AOC.
    Did Amazon create 25000 jobs with 150K average salary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Did Amazon create 25000 jobs with 150K average salary?
    Blame democrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Blame democrats.
    So the part that was not entirely true ended up to be a part that never came true. I love the irony.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    So the part that was not entirely true ended up to be a part that never came true. I love the irony.
    When did I say it happened? I gave an example where a corporation would have invested in people after getting a tax break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    When did I say it happened? I gave an example where a corporation would have invested in people after getting a tax break.
    I never said you did say it happened. You came out with a *not entirely true* comeback, but failed to substantiate your response with any truthful example, just bluff and bluster. You gave a fantasy example. Give me some hard examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    The democrats would have been in much better position had they decided to solve the issues of a common American rather than focusing entirely on criticising Trump.
    Right because the Republicans were shining examples of bipartisan cooperation under the Obama Administration ?

    Did you forget what happened to Merrick Garland ?

    As for solving the issues, Trump's agenda such as building the wall, repealing the ACA and tax cuts for the wealthy are opposed by a majority of Americans so why should Democrats support him ?

    Finally, if you paid attention to US politics, you'd know Democrats offered $25bn for Trump's wall in exchange for DACA. Trump accepted then rejected after his far-right lunatic base like Coulter and Limbaugh bashed him. During the shutdown, the master negotiator couldn't even get $5bn !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Partially true. Post Trump election there was a relief rally on the premise that lower taxes would boost the economy.

    Tax reforms meant that businesses saved money by avoiding taxes (but had to move their cash to the USA), where the theory was that said companies would pay/invest more in the people. What really happened was that said companies were investing the saved cash in share buybacks which bolstered the markets. Ask the American Joe Blogg and they are paying more in taxes, new home sales dropped 8.3% last month, job creation was much lower than expected, and the markets are now pricing in a recession. Not forgetting the trade war with China knocked off nearly 3000 points from the DJIA and Trumps policies have added Trillions to the national debt. Did I mention the Fed has pretty much frozen any rate rises for the next 2 years?

    This isn't a sign of a booming economy, or a growing economy, it's the sign of a stagnating economy.
    Spot bloody on.

    Anyone paying even the slightest bit of attention to current affairs and economics knows the tax cuts mostly went towards stock buybacks. It's beyond frustrating how so many voters don't even do their homework before commenting.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    I never said you did say it happened. You came out with a *not entirely true* comeback, but failed to substantiate your response with any truthful example, just bluff and bluster. You gave a fantasy example. Give me some hard examples.
    Amazon declaring to build their HQ in NY is a fantasy example? You made a claim that corporations did not use tax breaks to invest in people and I gave a valid example which showed the inaccuracy of your statement. Amazon had all the intention to use that tax break to create more jobs but the petty politics of Democrats ruined it.

    Before making any false claims, why don't you check the statistics produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics which shows that 2.6 million new jobs were added in 2018.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Amazon declaring to build their HQ in NY is a fantasy example? You made a claim that corporations did not use tax breaks to invest in people and I gave a valid example which showed the inaccuracy of your statement. Amazon had all the intention to use that tax break to create more jobs but the petty politics of Democrats ruined it.

    Before making any false claims, why don't you check the statistics produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics which shows that 2.6 million new jobs were added in 2018.
    No you did not! You gave an example that did not even occur! You even admitted it! Hypotheticals have no place in debates.

    2.6 Million jobs created? So you are attributing these jobs to Trump's tax policy? Oh dear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Right because the Republicans were shining examples of bipartisan cooperation under the Obama Administration ?

    Did you forget what happened to Merrick Garland ?

    As for solving the issues, Trump's agenda such as building the wall, repealing the ACA and tax cuts for the wealthy are opposed by a majority of Americans so why should Democrats support him ?

    Finally, if you paid attention to US politics, you'd know Democrats offered $25bn for Trump's wall in exchange for DACA. Trump accepted then rejected after his far-right lunatic base like Coulter and Limbaugh bashed him. During the shutdown, the master negotiator couldn't even get $5bn !
    You just wasted your time because I am no Trump supporter and I have a strong dislike for the Republicans. The point I was trying to make was that the whole politics of democrats revolve around personal criticism of Trump. It did not win Hillary elections. A lot of people had high hopes from Mueller but that was another disappointment for them. It is high time democrats focus on real issues rather than proving to the world how terrible a person Trump is.

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    Folks, in 2018, the US Deficit rose, and GDP fell - despite Trump's tax policies. His policies only benefited the rich.

    Fiscal year 2018 (FY 2018) ran from October 1, 2017 through September 30, 2018. It was the first fiscal year budgeted by President Trump. The Treasury department reported on October 15, 2018 that the budget deficit rose from $666 billion in FY2017 to $779 billion in FY2018, an increase of $113 billion or 17.0%. In dollar terms, tax receipts increased 0.4%, while outlays increased 3.2%. Revenue fell from 17.2% GDP in 2017 to 16.4% GDP in 2018, below the 50-year average of 17.4%. Outlays fell from 20.7% GDP in 2017 to 20.3% GDP in 2018, equal to the 50-year average.[86] The 2018 deficit was an estimated 3.9% of GDP, up from 3.5% GDP in 2017.[69]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...FY2018_results

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    No you did not! You gave an example that did not even occur! You even admitted it! Hypotheticals have no place in debates.

    2.6 Million jobs created? So you are attributing these jobs to Trump's tax policy? Oh dear.
    I am not attributing those 2.6 million jobs exclusively to Trump's tax policy but I am also not painting any gloomy picture about the US economy like you did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I am not attributing those 2.6 million jobs exclusively to Trump's tax policy but I am also not painting any gloomy picture about the US economy like you did.
    Dear Lord, so now you are not attributing the job creation to Trump's tax polices. Are you actually following the thread or just posting to be deliberately obtrusive?

    I did not paint a gloomy picture of the US economy. I was highlighting what really happened post Trump's tax policies.

    Please do keep up.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Dear Lord, so now you are not attributing the job creation to Trump's tax polices. Are you actually following the thread or just posting to be deliberately obtrusive?

    I did not paint a gloomy picture of the US economy. I was highlighting what really happened post Trump's tax policies.

    Please do keep up.
    In your own words...

    they are paying more in taxes, new home sales dropped 8.3% last month, job creation was much lower than expected, and the markets are now pricing in a recession. Not forgetting the trade war with China knocked off nearly 3000 points from the DJIA and Trumps policies have added Trillions to the national debt.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    In your own words...
    Yes, and? You interpreted my words as gloomy. Nothing I said is false. I ended my post by stating the US economy was stagnating.

    Please learn to read; honestly!

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Yes, and? You interpreted my words as gloomy. Nothing I said is false. I ended my post by stating the US economy was stagnating.

    Please learn to read; honestly!
    Trump adding trillions to the national debt is not painting a gloomy picture? No matter how hard you try, there is only one interpretation of your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Trump adding trillions to the national debt is not painting a gloomy picture? No matter how hard you try, there is only one interpretation of your post.
    The interpretation is your problem.

    If you feel adding trillions to the debt is gloomy then fine. Describe it how you want, doesn't change the fact he has added Trillions to the debt under his administration.

    You are weeping because you do not like the fact that USA debt is exploding. Grow up son, debt USA sky rocketed since 2008 crash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    The interpretation is your problem.

    If you feel adding trillions to the debt is gloomy then fine. Describe it how you want, doesn't change the fact he has added Trillions to the debt under his administration.

    You are weeping because you do not like the fact that USA debt is exploding. Grow up son, debt USA sky rocketed since 2008 crash.
    Yes, Americans should rejoice after hearing the news of trillions being added to their national debt. I have heard it all today.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Yes, Americans should rejoice after hearing the news of trillions being added to their national debt. I have heard it all today.
    Who said American should rejoice? Show me. I think you need to back off your meds pal.

    Blag artist or what!?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    You just wasted your time because I am no Trump supporter and I have a strong dislike for the Republicans. The point I was trying to make was that the whole politics of democrats revolve around personal criticism of Trump. It did not win Hillary elections. A lot of people had high hopes from Mueller but that was another disappointment for them. It is high time democrats focus on real issues rather than proving to the world how terrible a person Trump is.
    I don't know how carefully you followed the 2018 midterms but Democrats ran on the issue of healthcare not Trump.

    As for blocking everything Trump's doing - Democrats agreed to do criminal justice reform with the Republicans recently.

    Again, it helps to do some homework.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I don't know how carefully you followed the 2018 midterms but Democrats ran on the issue of healthcare not Trump.

    As for blocking everything Trump's doing - Democrats agreed to do criminal justice reform with the Republicans recently.

    Again, it helps to do some homework.
    What homework? It is clear as daylight where the democrats have been focusing.

    I do not understand how can you even deny the fact that democrats have spent far more time on Trump's character assassination than anything else. Mueller investigation, Kavannaugh's appointment, Stormy Daniels, wall, racism, etc. The list just does not end.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Who said American should rejoice? Show me. I think you need to back off your meds pal.

    Blag artist or what!?
    I will after you stop changing goalposts from decrease in jobs due to tax break to Trump adding trillions to national debt to US debt rising since 2008.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    What homework? It is clear as daylight where the democrats have been focusing.

    I do not understand how can you even deny the fact that democrats have spent far more time on Trump's character assassination than anything else. Mueller investigation, Kavannaugh's appointment, Stormy Daniels, wall, racism, etc. The list just does not end.
    If the roles were reversed and Obama had directed his lawyer to pay hush money to porn stars, had misrepresented his assets and apologised for black extremist groups in the way Trump has for white supremacists (describing the Charlottesville neo-Nazis as very fine people) - do you think the Republicans would've kept quiet ?

    You can both criticise the neverending scandals in the Trump administration and present an alternative policy agenda.

    Also the fact you think pointing out Trump's blatant racism and bigotry is "character assassination" is telling.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    If the roles were reversed and Obama had directed his lawyer to pay hush money to porn stars, had misrepresented his assets and apologised for black extremist groups in the way Trump has for white supremacists (describing the Charlottesville neo-Nazis as very fine people) - do you think the Republicans would've kept quiet ?

    You can both criticise the neverending scandals in the Trump administration and present an alternative policy agenda.

    Also the fact you think pointing out Trump's blatant racism and bigotry is "character assassination" is telling.
    That's why the republicans focused on Hillary's email controversy rather than airing Bill Clinton's dirty laundry.


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