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  1. #1
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    Who is Pakistan's greatest-ever batsman?

    So, this question was on my mind and I had a discussion between some friends, who basically couldn't pick between Miandad, Inzy or Zaheer but most ended up leaning more towards Miandad. He does seem to have the popular vote, home and away but in modern times, 2 other batsmen should be rated just as highly, Younis Khan and Mohammad Yousuf.

    I personally, lean towards Yousuf as he was a far superior ODI batsman and the pose with which he played his shots was just beautiful. He also had one of the most remarkable seasons I have ever seen, breaking all sorts of records along the way.

    What say you?

  2. #2
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    Yousuf Youhana

  3. #3
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    Saeed anwar is among the greatest.

  4. #4
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    Tests - Younis Khan
    ODIs - Saeed Anwar

  5. #5
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    Javed. Dude was one of the most combative players out there. Irritated the hell out of the opposition but got the job done. A bit too slow for today's ODI standards but in this era, he would have scored quicker.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  6. #6
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    I don;t think there is much debate about Miandad, he is the one.

  7. #7
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    Maindad in Test for sure. ODI's it must be Inzamam.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Maindad in Test for sure. ODI's it must be Inzamam.
    Miandad was even better in ODI, once he equaled the record of most consecutive fifties in ODIs.

  9. #9
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    Miandad certainly.

    With Younis and Inzamam, there are always debates whether they are ATG or not. With Miandad , I think it's pretty much inarguable.

  10. #10
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    I have always believed that Zaheer Abbas is the greatest Pakistani batsman, followed by Miandad and then the rest of them.

  11. #11
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    Imran khan in his later years...

  12. #12
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    Hanif

  13. #13
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    Javed Miandad in both Tests and ODIs, followed by Saeed Anwar, Inzimam and Zaheer Abbas

  14. #14
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    Tests: Younis
    ODIs: Miandad

  15. #15
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    Javed Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Younis Khan - in that order


    #MPGA

  16. #16
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    Miandad

  17. #17
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    Javed Miandad

    Technically not as sound as others or not as talented as Inzamam , but had determination . hated to lose .

  18. #18
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    Javed Miandad

  19. #19
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    Zaheer Abbas
    Miandad
    Inzy
    Saeed Anwar
    Younis

  20. #20
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    Miandad
    Inzy
    Younis
    Abbas
    Anwar

    Daylight


    Yousuf

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Miandad
    Inzy
    Younis
    Abbas
    Anwar

    Daylight


    Yousuf
    No list mentions the name of the great Majid Khan.At his best he could join Barry or Viv Richards.Majid carried the torch of the Pakistani batting more than anyone till 1977 facing great bowling attacks.Overshadowed Zaheer Abas and Javed Miandad against great pace like in West Indies in 1977 when he averaged 53 aggregating 530 runs.

    In a crisis Salim Malik was up there with anyone.Remember Malik's s match-turning 99 at Leeds in 1987 in difficult conditions,century at Leeds in 1992,68 at Trinidad in 1988,237 in the 2nd test v Australia in 1994 and match-winning 72 at Kolkata in 1987 of such 35 balls.Also Asif Ibal at his best after 1976 was truly a great batsmen.Against pace Wasim Raja batted like a champion.

    Majid at his best may have been the best while nobody surpased Asif Iqbal at no 6.The likes of mentioned batsmen were in the class of all mentioned.

  22. #22
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    In terms of Test averages, from the list, it's Javed Miandad, Yousuf, Younis, Inzi, Anwar, Zaheer in that order (Azhar Ali, Misbah have higher averages than Anwar and Abbas, but we're leaving them out).

    If 50+ qualifies one for greatness, then Anwar and Abbas miss out.

    Comparison in terms of an important criterion (Test averages Home and Away) throws up some interesting results. It's Anwar, Inzy, Younis, Miandad, Yousuf and Zaheer.

    Anwar whose home and away averages are almost the same! Javed Miandad on average scored 15 runs less playing abroad, compared to home. Yousuf- around 19 runs! With Zaheer Abbas 21+ runs! , Inzy's is around 7. Now for Younis the difference is 9 runs but I am not sure how to include his UAE scores (home? Away?). For those who care, I've provided links at the bottom of this post.

    All of the above are surface analyses and can be examined in much greater detail.

    Now for subjective criteria.

    In terms of elegance - Zaheer takes the lead every time IMO. He was incredibly graceful. Inzi was pretty cool, as was Anwar.

    In terms of grit and dominating the opposition - Miandad, every time.

    Overall I'd say

    Miandad/ Inzi

    Younis/ Zaheer

    Anwar

    Yousuf.





    (http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Stati...?PlayerID=1169)

    http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Stati...?PlayerID=0003

    (http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/St...?PlayerID=1794)

    http://www.howstat.com/cricket/stati...?PlayerID=2211

    http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Stati...?PlayerID=2129

    (http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/St...?PlayerID=0081)

  23. #23
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    Name of Hanif Mohammaed obliterated.Arguably best ever.Technically the best and most compact.Considering he was an opener and has the best highest score has to be right upo there.At his best Majid was a genius .

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryin Out Loud View Post
    ....
    Overall I'd say

    Miandad/ Inzi

    Younis/ Zaheer

    Anwar

    Yousuf.
    I need to change this. Forgot all about Hanif Mohammed. He could be up there with Miandad and Inzi.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Thakor View Post
    Name of Hanif Mohammaed obliterated.Arguably best ever.Technically the best and most compact.Considering he was an opener and has the best highest score has to be right upo there.At his best Majid was a genius .
    We posted at almost the same time. Agreed.

  26. #26
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    Javed Miandad

  27. #27
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    Zaheer Abbas and frankly, it's not even close. He was the closest thing you could get to the man with the swagger - Viv Richards, undeniably the greatest batsman of the post war era.

  28. #28
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    Javed Miandad.
    damn effective in odi and beast in tests.
    a fighter.Waht else you want.

  29. #29
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    Miandad was world class in all formats he played.

  30. #30
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    Big man Inzamam ul huq,
    11000+ runs in ODI's
    8800+ runs in Tests

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandMaster View Post
    Yousuf Youhana
    Lucky to be in the top five.

    One glorious year doesn't hide the fact he was a bottler and an FTB for much of his career.

  32. #32
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    No way Inzi was a better ODI bat than Anwar, who has 20 ODI 100’s.

    Apart from WC92, Inzi was a choker on the big stage. He’s average proves it.

  33. #33
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    Javed.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    Zaheer Abbas and frankly, it's not even close. He was the closest thing you could get to the man with the swagger - Viv Richards, undeniably the greatest batsman of the post war era.
    I saw Zaheer play and deeply admire him. He was like silk- in sheer elegance he has been unmatched in Pakistan AND India (Azhar and occasionally Laxman came somewhat close). He just murdered us Indians, but he was so classy (and personally such a gentleman) I never had a problem, neither did my fellow Indians. In fact Zed was someone we all aspired to emulate (not Imran Khan as the popular media would have you believe).

    But we have a problem- How would you account for the huge difference between his home and away averages, then? This is an important metric when any player is termed as a cricketing great, far less Pakistan's best batsman.

  35. #35
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    inzamam for me He was the greatest pakistani batsman of his era and whether tests or odis equally good

    Didnt watch much of javed Younus as a test bat probably beats him but if u take odis in only anwar of modern day pakistani bats comes close

  36. #36
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    To watch saeed Anwar was the most entertaining and fluent too watch and our best one day batsman. In test matches I would pick mohammed yousuf for the amount of big scores he made. Inzi was more talented by did not do his talent justice mainly due to fitness in my opinion

  37. #37
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    Javed followed by Inzi and then Zaheer. Yousuf was one year wonder and many soft runs. Younis was late bloomer but never a good odi player.

    Javed is ATG by any standard.Dont rate Anwar that high at all.

  38. #38
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    TEsts: Javed Miandad, Younus, Inzi, Yousuf

    ODIs: Yousuf, Zaheer, Javed, Inzi

    Over all It has to be JAved


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Lucky to be in the top five.

    One glorious year doesn't hide the fact he was a bottler and an FTB for much of his career.
    He is being compared to PAkistani batsmen, so he is easily in top 4


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    TEsts: Javed Miandad, Younus, Inzi, Yousuf

    ODIs: Yousuf, Zaheer, Javed, Inzi

    Over all It has to be JAved
    How is Yousuf better odi player than either Zaheer or Inzi.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    How is Yousuf better odi player than either Zaheer or Inzi.
    Much better than Inzi, he was way more consistent. Zaheer was probably better but yousuf has a bigger sample set


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    How is Yousuf better odi player than either Zaheer or Inzi.
    Yousuf and Javed are only 40+ averaging ODI players from Pakistan with a decent sample set


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

  43. #43
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    Miandad....... daylight ......then the next best.

    50+ average from first test to last.

  44. #44
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    Not the best.. But. Majid khan was a talented batsman. Exciting player. He hit like 5 sixes in an over in a first class game. Never had much of a footwork like viru. Should have done more. Did well against top WI fast bowlers. But his cousin completely eclipsed him.

  45. #45
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    Miandad although Anwar had the highest ceiling IMO.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Much better than Inzi, he was way more consistent. Zaheer was probably better but yousuf has a bigger sample set
    I beg to differ, Anwar and Inzi were far better players than him.

  47. #47
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    Javed Miandad and Younis Khan. Our two batting ATGs and I for one cannot pick between them. Inzamam ul Haq was next and had the potential to match Sachin and Lara. Mohammad Yousuf and Saeed Anwar deserve a shout-out too.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 13th February 2018 at 06:10.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Miandad
    Inzy
    Younis
    Abbas
    Anwar

    Daylight


    Yousuf
    Yousuf would be one of the best batsmen in the world, in any era and in all formats, during his prime. You're severely underrating him. He's probably one of the top ten Asian batsmen of all time:

    1) Sachin
    2) Gavasker
    3) Miandad
    4) Sangakkara
    5) Younis
    6) Dravid
    7) Inzamam
    8) Mahela
    9) Anwar
    10) Yousuf/VVS/Jayasuriya


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  49. #49
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    Miandad

    No competition at all.

  50. #50
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    I didn't watch Javed but I gather it's probably him. He's world famous, and largely recognised as one of the best batsmen of his era.

    The other Pak batsmen e.g. Inzi, YK etc. were rated highly but never really talked about about being the best in the world or amongst the best. They always faced competition from guys like Tendulkar, Ponting, Dravid, Lara, Kallis, Smith, Sangakaara etc. At least for Javed, in his era the only asian batsman (and batting in asia in general) you could compare him with was Gavaskar.

    Miandad seems like the only batsman who generated anywhere near the hype/respect in cricketing circles/fans globally as our bowlers e.g Imran, Waqar, Wasim etc.

  51. #51
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    It must be Ramiz Raja. The way he commentates... it seems he wants to convey that not only was he the greatest and most prolific Pakistani batsman ever but there's never been an equal to him the world over.

  52. #52
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    Miandad - those who have seen him play will attest to that. He has performed admirably around the world, and is a much better OVERALL player than his competitors. Here's my list in order of greatness among Pakistani batsmen:
    1. Miandad
    2. Younis Khan
    3. M.Yousuf
    4. Zaheer Abbas
    5. Salim Malik
    6. Inzamam

  53. #53
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    Miandad.

    People are mentioning Younis for obvious reasons, but Miandad, Inzamam, Zaheer, Hanif, MoYo, Majid, Asif Iqbal and Saleem Malik were better than him for non-obvious reasons.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    I didn't watch Javed but I gather it's probably him. He's world famous, and largely recognised as one of the best batsmen of his era.

    The other Pak batsmen e.g. Inzi, YK etc. were rated highly but never really talked about about being the best in the world or amongst the best. They always faced competition from guys like Tendulkar, Ponting, Dravid, Lara, Kallis, Smith, Sangakaara etc. At least for Javed, in his era the only asian batsman (and batting in asia in general) you could compare him with was Gavaskar.

    Miandad seems like the only batsman who generated anywhere near the hype/respect in cricketing circles/fans globally as our bowlers e.g Imran, Waqar, Wasim etc.
    Inzi is strictly a Pakistani ATG; perhaps he gets more love because of WC 92, and he was a good player of pace; the national achilles heel. Was he ever ranked no 1 in the world, as were Youhana and YK, albeit briefly. But what about Abbas and Hanif, what was their standing internationally?

  55. #55
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    The problem with post-90s Pakistani batting greats is that they have flirted with greatness but ultimately are not in the same class as Lara, Sachin, Dravid, Sangakkara, Ponting etc etc.

    With the pack of Younis, MoYo and Inzi, no one obviously is well ahead of the others. Arguments can be made for why each of them is the best, but none of them tower over the other two.

    It's probably Miandad but I didn't seen him play before '92.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Miandad.

    People are mentioning Younis for obvious reasons, but Miandad, Inzamam, Zaheer, Hanif, MoYo, Majid, Asif Iqbal and Saleem Malik were better than him for non-obvious reasons.
    What are those obvious reasons?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Inzi is strictly a Pakistani ATG; perhaps he gets more love because of WC 92, and he was a good player of pace; the national achilles heel. Was he ever ranked no 1 in the world, as were Youhana and YK, albeit briefly. But what about Abbas and Hanif, what was their standing internationally?
    I think Abbas is only known by mostly Pakistanis. Though I think out of the rest of the lot he gets forgotten quite a bit. Hanif is a trickier one, he isn't particularly well known however he arguably played in a older era so people in today's world won't remember him as he goes too far back. He does have an important record to his name in that 337. Then again thought Boycott was from a similar era and yet got a lot more critical acclaim and still pretty well known today.

    Guess it's not a particularly great way of assessing players, I really out of our batting greats only saw Yousuf and Younis, and saw Inzi briefly at the end of his career. Out of those initially I would have said Yousuf was the best out of what I saw. But Younis scored more runs in foreign conditions than Yousuf as well as batting at three so that puts him ahead. There were innings where Yousuf looked in complete control from ball one, while on the other hand YK often seemed scratchy at the start, and never really looked great against pace (though was incredible against spin) while Yousuf looked more balanced.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Yousuf would be one of the best batsmen in the world, in any era and in all formats, during his prime. You're severely underrating him. He's probably one of the top ten Asian batsmen of all time:

    1) Sachin
    2) Gavasker
    3) Miandad
    4) Sangakkara
    5) Younis
    6) Dravid
    7) Inzamam
    8) Mahela
    9) Anwar
    10) Yousuf/VVS/Jayasuriya
    Moyo struggled against spin and bounce. His record is absymal in India, SL, Aus and SA.And not to forget he batted down the order, hide against new ball and was king of soft runs.

    Moreover, there is no way you can have Mahela ahead of VVS and Sehwag. Mine top 10 Asian batsmen would be:

    India: SRT, Gavaskar, Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman, Kohli
    Pakistan: Miandad, Inzy, Younis
    SL: Sangakkara

    And I am not even bias. Mahela was a big HTB. And I will rather take Anwar over Moyo.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 14th February 2018 at 11:25.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Lucky to be in the top five.

    One glorious year doesn't hide the fact he was a bottler and an FTB for much of his career.
    Didn't know bottlers averaged over 50...

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Much better than Inzi, he was way more consistent. Zaheer was probably better but yousuf has a bigger sample set
    Quote Originally Posted by projektq View Post
    Didn't know bottlers averaged over 50...
    Can you list the number of quality innings under pressure from Yousuf against good bowling attacks outside 2006 please ?

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    Hanif M./Younus K- Tests
    Javed Miandad. /Saeed A..Odis

    Best purple patch MoYo “that year” ,apart from that he doesn’t make my top 5

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    Inzi (in my view) greatest failure went downhill after 92 , flopped @ icc tournaments, the most unfit & lazy international cricketer of his generation , I pulled all my hair out by the time I was 26!! he won us so many games but imagine a fit inzi “not Younus level” just a fit Inzi.. that is why he should be outside the top 5 Pakistani batsmen.. btw am a big inzi fan.

  63. #63
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    Javed Miandad. Always held the batting together when the rest were falling like ducks.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Can you list the number of quality innings under pressure from Yousuf against good bowling attacks outside 2006 please ?
    In ODIs he was consistently good across his career, 2006 argument holds for tests only.


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie007 View Post
    What are those obvious reasons?
    Facts, according to facts Younus is only inferior to one test bat in Pakistan i-e- Miandad


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

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    You can slice the pie anyway you want but Pakistan's greatest match winner with the bat is Miandad. That makes him the overall best in my books.

    Inzi is tier 2 even by Pakistani standards...some of Inzi's test innings our amongst Pakistan's best but he lacked consistency. Yusuf is def tier 3 or below...he had talent but his interest faded away in the last few years.

    Younis is a weird case. I never thought he would make it as far as he did. Some of his innings are easily the best any Pakistani produced...the 200 at Oval...300 in Karachi...another 250 in Bangalore..the consecutive 190s against India in Pakistan. I developed a lot of admiration for Younis as his career went on. I really do thank him for his services to the team and for being an honest person. People can hate him for his antics or whatever but I'd rather take one Younis over Hafeez, Misbah, and Malik combined. . Def Tier 1 but still below Javed for me.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirpur express View Post
    Best purple patch MoYo “that year” ,apart from that he doesn’t make my top 5
    Don't agree with this purple patch comment. Just because of that one stellar year in 2006 doesn't make the rest of his career worthless.

    He averaged around and over 50 in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003,2005,2006.

    Averaged 48.56 before 2006. Which isn't a bad average.

    Yousuf averaged 63 between 2000-2006. Younis in contrast averaged 48.

    For the period where both YK and Yousuf played together, Yousuf was largely the superior bat. Yousuf didn't have a chance to play on the UAE pitches much which he may have inflated his average much. However YK did improve even more against spin in the latter half of his career.

    Yousuf's career IMO was tragically cut short, he was in the form of his life in 2006 at his peak. With all the drama that followed, captaincy fights, thrown out of the team, banned by PCB etc., he didn't play much after that. A shame really.

    As I said YK goes down as the superior bat as he has a better record in tougher conditions like SA, Aus. Batted at 3 and arguably a bigger match winner on his day. But I don't agree with claims Yousuf wasn't consistent apart from 2006, he was consistently good for most of his career (except the twilight of his career where he was poor).

  68. #68
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    Miandad
    Zaheer
    Majid

    Yusuf
    Inzi

  69. #69
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    The debate should be about who is the second greatest pakistani batsman, because Miandad is the daddy here.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Moyo struggled against spin and bounce. His record is absymal in India, SL, Aus and SA.And not to forget he batted down the order, hide against new ball and was king of soft runs.

    Moreover, there is no way you can have Mahela ahead of VVS and Sehwag. Mine top 10 Asian batsmen would be:

    India: SRT, Gavaskar, Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman, Kohli
    Pakistan: Miandad, Inzy, Younis
    SL: Sangakkara

    And I am not even bias. Mahela was a big HTB. And I will rather take Anwar over Moyo.
    It really puts your "not even bias" claim in the gutter when you have Kohli in there. Sehwag I can tolerate but Kohli? What exactly is he in there for? His 60-odd matches or his 4000-odd runs? Let him play more before claiming that he's a better batsman than greats like Mahela and to a lesser extent, Yousuf.

    VVS and Yousuf are on the same level. While the latter played some superb innings and was much better against bounce, Yousuf was much more consistent and a better player of swing and seam.

    I don't rate Sehwag who was a tail-ender outside his comfort-zone. However, he has his appeal and his fans so we can agree to disagree.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Can you list the number of quality innings under pressure from Yousuf against good bowling attacks outside 2006 please ?
    Inzamam was a better batsman than Yousuf but that 2006 run of Yousuf's was legendary.

    No other Asian batsman has a better year than 2006 Yousuf. Not Sachin, not Miandad.

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    Virat Kohli > Pakistan's greatest ever.


    Gangster rap made me do it.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    It really puts your "not even bias" claim in the gutter when you have Kohli in there. Sehwag I can tolerate but Kohli? What exactly is he in there for? His 60-odd matches or his 4000-odd runs? Let him play more before claiming that he's a better batsman than greats like Mahela and to a lesser extent, Yousuf.

    VVS and Yousuf are on the same level. While the latter played some superb innings and was much better against bounce, Yousuf was much more consistent and a better player of swing and seam.

    I don't rate Sehwag who was a tail-ender outside his comfort-zone. However, he has his appeal and his fans so we can agree to disagree.
    Virat Kohli has close to 6K runs not 4K firstly. He has already proved his worth against the two best teams of his era, Australia and South Africa away from home. He has already surpassed any Asian batsmen bar Tendulkar and Laxman when it comes to performance against Aus/SA in Aus and SA. He has been successful in both his tours to SA and Aus while being dominant in one of them.

    He also has a home average of 60+ with a number of double hundreds to his name. Yes, he played 60 tests only. But this guy has already got 21 hundreds and 5 double hundreds. There is no doubt that he has already made his way to top 10 Asian batsmen of all-time.

    Let us compare Sehwag and Yousuf:

    In spin conditions: Sehwag=2*Yousuf(Moyo averages 30-33 in India and SL)
    In swing/seam conditions: Yousuf=2 *Sehwag
    In pace and bouncy conditions:Sehwag= 1.25* Moyo
    On flat pitches; Sehwag> Moyo(although Moyo is excellent too but Sehwag would take the game away quicker because of that high SR).

    As for VVS, again against two best teams in the world of his era, Australia and SA, his performances have been better than anyone bar SRT and at similar level to Kohli now. He was clutch, magical player and could do things which nobody could do. A very special player in his own right. He is rated ATG by Australians.

    I rate Younis highly too. Clutch, excellent in pressure, excellent against spin and had the ability to grind out in really tough conditions even when he is struggling. A fighter really.

    Moyo doesn't have any such skills. Just a waste of talent.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Virat Kohli has close to 6K runs not 4K firstly. He has already proved his worth against the two best teams of his era, Australia and South Africa away from home. He has already surpassed any Asian batsmen bar Tendulkar and Laxman when it comes to performance against Aus/SA in Aus and SA. He has been successful in both his tours to SA and Aus while being dominant in one of them.

    He also has a home average of 60+ with a number of double hundreds to his name. Yes, he played 60 tests only. But this guy has already got 21 hundreds and 5 double hundreds. There is no doubt that he has already made his way to top 10 Asian batsmen of all-time.

    Let us compare Sehwag and Yousuf:

    In spin conditions: Sehwag=2*Yousuf(Moyo averages 30-33 in India and SL)
    In swing/seam conditions: Yousuf=2 *Sehwag
    In pace and bouncy conditions:Sehwag= 1.25* Moyo
    On flat pitches; Sehwag> Moyo(although Moyo is excellent too but Sehwag would take the game away quicker because of that high SR).

    As for VVS, again against two best teams in the world of his era, Australia and SA, his performances have been better than anyone bar SRT and at similar level to Kohli now. He was clutch, magical player and could do things which nobody could do. A very special player in his own right. He is rated ATG by Australians.

    I rate Younis highly too. Clutch, excellent in pressure, excellent against spin and had the ability to grind out in really tough conditions even when he is struggling. A fighter really.

    Moyo doesn't have any such skills. Just a waste of talent.
    Pakistan and the UAE is a spin-friendly locale too. Also, it is one thing to average 30 and another to average in the 20s. Yousuf > Sehwag.

    You are talking as if Kohli's career is done. He still has more tours to those countries so that average can go either way. 60 tests is simply not enough to put him in the discussion here. And if you do want to, then why stop at poor Mahela? Why not declare that Kohli is better than Dravid too who averaged a measly 29 in South Africa and 40 in Australia (boosted by a series against their 'C' attack)? Either you agree that it is unfair to compare a player who has only played 60 matches and is their peak with someone who has retired or you go all the way and not pick and choose which players are left behind and which aren't.

    Yes, he was excellent against two teams but there are seven other teams that you have to score against as well. An average of 45 for a middle-order Indian batsman shows that he was way too inconsistent to be an ATG, and thus a league above Yousuf and Mahela.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Pakistan and the UAE is a spin-friendly locale too. Also, it is one thing to average 30 and another to average in the 20s. Yousuf > Sehwag.

    You are talking as if Kohli's career is done. He still has more tours to those countries so that average can go either way. 60 tests is simply not enough to put him in the discussion here. And if you do want to, then why stop at poor Mahela? Why not declare that Kohli is better than Dravid too who averaged a measly 29 in South Africa and 40 in Australia (boosted by a series against their 'C' attack)? Either you agree that it is unfair to compare a player who has only played 60 matches and is their peak with someone who has retired or you go all the way and not pick and choose which players are left behind and which aren't.

    Yes, he was excellent against two teams but there are seven other teams that you have to score against as well. An average of 45 for a middle-order Indian batsman shows that he was way too inconsistent to be an ATG, and thus a league above Yousuf and Mahela.
    You are missing the context here.

    Kohli has now succeeded over two tours to SA and Aus and even if he fails in his next tour to that country, he will be deemed as highly successful in those countries and superior to Moyo, Mahela, Dravid, Younis and Inzamam in those countries.

    However, the latter three were clutch and have produced series defining performances everywhere else(Dravid had it in Australia 2003 and twice in England 2003 and 2011 and was hughly successful in Pak).

    Moyo doesn't have it in India and SL(two major countries while not to forget scored a huge amount of soft runs and did heavy minnow bashing(averages 240 against pre-Shakib Bangladesh).

    While Mahela is clutch and I used to love his batting back, his performance away from home is far too poor to have him there. He failed in every country I think outside Asia.

    There is nothing wrong if I am already putting Kohli ahead of Moyo and Mahela, both mainly very good test batsmen and that's all. I am surprised you didnt mentioned but I might pick Saed Anwar over Moyo but that would be without keeping my bias aside.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 16th February 2018 at 14:10.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Pakistan and the UAE is a spin-friendly locale too. Also, it is one thing to average 30 and another to average in the 20s. Yousuf > Sehwag.

    You are talking as if Kohli's career is done. He still has more tours to those countries so that average can go either way. 60 tests is simply not enough to put him in the discussion here. And if you do want to, then why stop at poor Mahela? Why not declare that Kohli is better than Dravid too who averaged a measly 29 in South Africa and 40 in Australia (boosted by a series against their 'C' attack)? Either you agree that it is unfair to compare a player who has only played 60 matches and is their peak with someone who has retired or you go all the way and not pick and choose which players are left behind and which aren't.

    Yes, he was excellent against two teams but there are seven other teams that you have to score against as well. An average of 45 for a middle-order Indian batsman shows that he was way too inconsistent to be an ATG, and thus a league above Yousuf and Mahela.
    Sehwag is an altogether different case. He is an opener and I have heard thousands of times people saying opening is a tough job and an average of 45 is equivalent to 50. Here, we have a guy who averages 49.xx. He has produced plenty of match winning performances in Asia(including Pak and SL) and his inning is Melbourne 2003 against a good quality attack and Adelaide 2007 were top quality knock. As an opener, he definitely deserves some leeways.


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