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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    So we are now going to judge a batsman with just one match?
    Bumrah is a bowler mate, maybe try watching the sport lol

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricCrazyNick View Post
    And you have whole pakistan team who choked every time when they faced India in World Cup
    Yeah....lucky India didnt choke and lose an ICC tournament final by the largest margin in history...oh wait you did lol

  3. #83
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    They have some swing bowlers who will do well in English conditions. One should never dismiss India's chances at all. Don't forget their powerful batting line up. This summer both Pak and India can analyse conditions then prepare accordingly for the big one next year.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Bumrah is a bowler mate, maybe try watching the sport lol
    you know that was a mistake. But my point still stands that you are judging Bumrah as a crap bowler for his performance in 1 ODI match. I will give you that it happened to be the biggest match he has played so far.

    But using the same measures Waqar was a crap odd bowler, because he was thwacked left right and centre in the most important ODI match of his life he has ever player - India vs Pakistan 96 WC QF.

  5. #85
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    The funny thing is India's main 5 bowlers are not playing in the tournament. Only 1 of those 5 who play in the XI is playing a game here. And people are still complaining. Oh, and we have still won 75% of the games, and might even go on to win the series.

  6. #86
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    Interesting how with so many superstars in the making back in domestic cricket, India proceeds to field the worst bowling attack seen in the last 10 years against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

  7. #87
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    India was the first team to reach final with newbies, SL and BD to face-off today to reach final.

    Remember, reading lot of happy posts from well wishers on seeing Ind lose with second string bowles vs SL.

    I told you so

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    The funny thing is India's main 5 bowlers are not playing in the tournament. Only 1 of those 5 who play in the XI is playing a game here. And people are still complaining. Oh, and we have still won 75% of the games, and might even go on to win the series.
    Brother level and amount of criticism usually get for best teams is always more than low ranked ones

    Selectors and coach should be clear what they want to get out of this practice series ...test your tier 2 bowlers mainly at international level.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Interesting how with so many superstars in the making back in domestic cricket, India proceeds to field the worst bowling attack seen in the last 10 years against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
    Actually, there is a method here.

    Proven Performers who have been delivering consistently in first class cricket, need to be given a chance. Otherwise there is no point in FC cricket.

    Now, Unadkat, Siraj and Thankur have been performing for the last 3-4 seasons on a consistent basis. They definitely need to be given a chance before players who might be more capable but have only performed for 1 season.

    Currently, in India, we have about 4-5 pacers who are really talented, but are raw and have performed only for 1 or 2 seasons. They need at least another season before being called up for the national team.

    Having said that, you can argue that the selectors should have a better vision, and should fast track talents to the national team. But that, I would say is the short sightedness of the selectors, which I would agree.

    But they also need to follow a process.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    you know that was a mistake. But my point still stands that you are judging Bumrah as a crap bowler for his performance in 1 ODI match. I will give you that it happened to be the biggest match he has played so far.

    But using the same measures Waqar was a crap odd bowler, because he was thwacked left right and centre in the most important ODI match of his life he has ever player - India vs Pakistan 96 WC QF.
    No, I did not just use one match. Re-read my post, I said the CT and a number of other games against better opposition.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    No, I did not just use one match. Re-read my post, I said the CT and a number of other games against better opposition.
    Bumrah has improved a lot as a bowler, recent SA tour has made Bumrah complete strike bowler which Ind needed badly.

    Hat's off to Ind selectors for giving Bumrah Test debut vs SA against popular opinion ..#TurningPoint

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    No, I did not just use one match. Re-read my post, I said the CT and a number of other games against better opposition.
    Please say which games other than CT. Also please compare his failures against top opposition to his successes against top opposition.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianFan2018 View Post
    Bumrah has improved a lot as a bowler, recent SA tour has made Bumrah complete strike bowler which Ind needed badly.

    Hat's off to Ind selectors for giving Bumrah Test debut vs SA against popular opinion ..#TurningPoint
    3 tests don't represent anything AND this is an ODI discussion.

    Where were his performances in the CT? hE GAVE AWAY OVER 50 RUNS PER WICKET. Against Aus, arguably the 2nd or 3rd best ODI side of recent times, he has never taken more than 2 wickets a game and has gone for an economy of 5+ in every match except one.

    Stats aside, he only has one trick, bowl it straight and hope that it zips back in off the seam. His yorker is ok but nothing special. If this is your reliance for winning the next world cup, then good luck lol

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    3 tests don't represent anything AND this is an ODI discussion.

    Where were his performances in the CT? hE GAVE AWAY OVER 50 RUNS PER WICKET. Against Aus, arguably the 2nd or 3rd best ODI side of recent times, he has never taken more than 2 wickets a game and has gone for an economy of 5+ in every match except one.

    Stats aside, he only has one trick, bowl it straight and hope that it zips back in off the seam. His yorker is ok but nothing special. If this is your reliance for winning the next world cup, then good luck lol
    Bumrah did well in LOI leg of SA tour as well, all started from tough test tour tha's my point !

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    3 tests don't represent anything AND this is an ODI discussion.

    Where were his performances in the CT? hE GAVE AWAY OVER 50 RUNS PER WICKET. Against Aus, arguably the 2nd or 3rd best ODI side of recent times, he has never taken more than 2 wickets a game and has gone for an economy of 5+ in every match except one.

    Stats aside, he only has one trick, bowl it straight and hope that it zips back in off the seam. His yorker is ok but nothing special. If this is your reliance for winning the next world cup, then good luck lol
    Like I said, India with all his known bowling problems has done pretty well in World Cups second only to AUS in overall performance.

    World doesn't end in one CT final upset for team India ...there is cricket outside CT'2017

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Interesting how with so many superstars in the making back in domestic cricket, India proceeds to field the worst bowling attack seen in the last 10 years against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
    Maybe the same reason why Rahane wasnt a regular feature in the South African test team! The team for this tourney is obviously no more than an experimentation. These bowlers did do well in domestic, and got their chance. The run up to the WC should ideally see a lot of such experimentation, provided the team is not playing important tourneys.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianFan2018 View Post
    Like I said, India with all his known bowling problems has done pretty well in World Cups second only to AUS in overall performance.

    World doesn't end in one CT final upset for team India ...there is cricket outside CT'2017
    I never said the world did end but India is a long, long way behind Aus in terms of world cups. It's not even comparable.

    All of that, however, is histry. The topic is about the upcoming world up and if India have top pace bowlers. The answer is no. If they are to win, they will win on the back of batting and fielding.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    I never said the world did end but India is a long, long way behind Aus in terms of world cups. It's not even comparable.

    All of that, however, is histry. The topic is about the upcoming world up and if India have top pace bowlers. The answer is no. If they are to win, they will win on the back of batting and fielding.
    If there are no injuries, their bowling attack including spinners is in the top 3 in the world. They have gun death bowlers and spinners who can take wickets in the middle overs. The problem is they don't have any decent back up seamers.

    Their Fielding unit is top notch but their batting is not that strong after top 3. SA series showed that they cannot accelerate at the death. They lack a proper No.4 that can keep up with the tunrate and play a long innings.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    If there are no injuries, their bowling attack including spinners is in the top 3 in the world. They have gun death bowlers and spinners who can take wickets in the middle overs. The problem is they don't have any decent back up seamers.

    Their Fielding unit is top notch but their batting is not that strong after top 3. SA series showed that they cannot accelerate at the death. They lack a proper No.4 that can keep up with the tunrate and play a long innings.
    Gun top 3??? You cant prove that at all. Like I just pointed out, BUmrah has failed to step up, Kumar as much as I like him isn't a wicket taking threat (but could improve) and shami is good....thats it. Jadeja is a horrible ODI spinner. The new guys are untested.

    Gun top 3 lol Aus, Pak, NZ and Eng have better.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Gun top 3??? You cant prove that at all. Like I just pointed out, BUmrah has failed to step up, Kumar as much as I like him isn't a wicket taking threat (but could improve) and shami is good....thats it. Jadeja is a horrible ODI spinner. The new guys are untested.

    Gun top 3 lol Aus, Pak, NZ and Eng have better.
    Bumrah has failed to step up?. You've been under the rock for way too long. I just compared the stats of Amir and BK, Hasan and Bumrah in 2017 and 2018 the other day. Very similar. Bumrah had been a beast in ODIs for the past 2 years. Pak doesn't have a good spin attack. So, they are not even in contention for the top 3.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    I never said the world did end but India is a long, long way behind Aus in terms of world cups. It's not even comparable.

    All of that, however, is histry. The topic is about the upcoming world up and if India have top pace bowlers. The answer is no. If they are to win, they will win on the back of batting and fielding.
    So fans from nations who is behind Ind in terms of WC performance advising Ind about WC prospects is little rich for my liking... #JustSaying

  22. #102
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    I think people are judging India by the current crop they put out in Sri Lanka. That Siraj guy has to be one of the worst I've seen.

    In terms of their first choice bowling attack, the big question mark is Shami. He's a gun ODI bowler, and combined with Bhuvneshwar (in England where he can get some swing), and Bumrah (who I really rate despite his action), is a very very competent pace bowling line up. Pandy will do a role not dissimilar to Watson and Faulkner in previous Aussie World Cup teams.

    The issue is that there is a HUGE drop in quality with the other pacers after that. Yadav is erratic and expensive, Unadkat I can't see being a competent ODI bowler (maybe T20 but even that's doubtful), and the rest are completely unproven.

    It's not the best, but it's certainely not the worst. Australia is the only team I see having a truly GUN bowling attack. Rest have some flaws or the other. Where India has the edge is quality wrist-spinners. Don't rate Chahal, but Kuldeep is a gem. Question is whether they will play both spinners like they did at the CT for example.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianFan2018 View Post
    So fans from nations who is behind Ind in terms of WC performance advising Ind about WC prospects is little rich for my liking... #JustSaying
    Why? This is a cricket forum with a cricket discussion and I'm a cricket fan first. If you don't like the truth, don't post here.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    Bumrah has failed to step up?. You've been under the rock for way too long. I just compared the stats of Amir and BK, Hasan and Bumrah in 2017 and 2018 the other day. Very similar. Bumrah had been a beast in ODIs for the past 2 years. Pak doesn't have a good spin attack. So, they are not even in contention for the top 3.
    Hassan is on a different level, lets not go there. Amir is a better bowler too and another example of stats without context. Bumrah failed throughout the CT, and has been mediocre against Aus. Take it or leave it.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Hassan is on a different level, lets not go there. Amir is a better bowler too and another example of stats without context. Bumrah failed throughout the CT, and has been mediocre against Aus. Take it or leave it.
    Based on your earlier comment about Jadeja and your knowledge on Bumrah, it appears you stopped following cricket after CT final. Better bowler means squat unless you back it up with numbers. Again, AMir was a beast in CT so I know that's the last you know.

  26. #106
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    Bumrah is very overrated and just good in death overs. Not top tier bowler. India are only capable of winning world cup in subcontinent. they will get smashed anywher else. dont bring up bilaterals. noone cares about those

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    Bumrah has failed to step up?. You've been under the rock for way too long. I just compared the stats of Amir and BK, Hasan and Bumrah in 2017 and 2018 the other day. Very similar. Bumrah had been a beast in ODIs for the past 2 years. Pak doesn't have a good spin attack. So, they are not even in contention for the top 3.
    Bumrah will fail when teams take him seriously. What can he even do? He doesnt have swing, extreme pace nothing. Maybe a death over specialist. Lets not hype him to moon

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messiah View Post
    Bumrah will fail when teams take him seriously. What can he even do? He doesnt have swing, extreme pace nothing. Maybe a death over specialist. Lets not hype him to moon
    No. One odi bowler.
    He seldom gets smashed and gets 2 to 3 wickets per match. Hasan is better but bumrah is no passer-by.
    Bumrah gets wicket by keeping it tight.He is also the worlds best death bowler. So he is brilliant as a complete package.
    Also he has a threatening yorker in his arsenal.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Why? This is a cricket forum with a cricket discussion and I'm a cricket fan first. If you don't like the truth, don't post here.
    I didn't, you are the one who is saying me not to post instead of debating

    I just gave my view on your comment

    Free world... Continue to post bro #peace

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messiah View Post
    Bumrah is very overrated and just good in death overs. Not top tier bowler. India are only capable of winning world cup in subcontinent. they will get smashed anywher else. dont bring up bilaterals. noone cares about those
    WC 1983, Benson and Hedges cup, WT20 2007, Tri- Series in AUS and CT2013 all happened in subcontinent....

    Slow clap for your cricketing knowledge bro

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    No. One odi bowler.
    He seldom gets smashed and gets 2 to 3 wickets per match. Hasan is better but bumrah is no passer-by.
    Bumrah gets wicket by keeping it tight.He is also the worlds best death bowler. So he is brilliant as a complete package.
    Also he has a threatening yorker in his arsenal.
    Why to convince delusional ones about Bumrah's capability... Kind of 'Frog in a well mentality' !

    No point leave it bro ..!

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianFan2018 View Post
    WC 1983, Benson and Hedges cup, WT20 2007, Tri- Series in AUS and CT2013 all happened in subcontinent....

    Slow clap for your cricketing knowledge bro
    why even debate.

    Facts dont matter

    Performance does not matter

    Indian bowlers can never be as good as Pakistani bowlers

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    why even debate.

    Facts dont matter

    Performance does not matter

    Indian bowlers can never be as good as Pakistani bowlers
    What matters is X-Factor and ability to bowl a few deliveries at 145 KMPH. Stats can take a backseat. Aamir will always remain a great bowler irrespective of what his numbers suggest since his comeback.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn’t arrived yet: Viv Richards

  34. #114
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    The defensiveness on here is so childish. The fact remains that Indians bowlers don't perform that well. Pak ,Aus, NZ have all traditionally had better ODI bowlers and in recent times the trend remains. Jadeja, BUmrah and co were all hammered and most of these guys dont strike enough.

    Thats not to negate India can win off the back of solid batting and fielding.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    The defensiveness on here is so childish. The fact remains that Indians bowlers don't perform that well. Pak ,Aus, NZ have all traditionally had better ODI bowlers and in recent times the trend remains. Jadeja, BUmrah and co were all hammered and most of these guys dont strike enough.

    Thats not to negate India can win off the back of solid batting and fielding.
    Could you please elaborate as to how the Indian bowling bowled in SA?

    Also, Jadeja is nowhere close to the Indian ODI lineup anymore.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    The defensiveness on here is so childish. The fact remains that Indians bowlers don't perform that well. Pak ,Aus, NZ have all traditionally had better ODI bowlers and in recent times the trend remains. Jadeja, BUmrah and co were all hammered and most of these guys dont strike enough.

    Thats not to negate India can win off the back of solid batting and fielding.
    Mate! With weaklink like Ishant Sharma, Balaji and Sreeshanths! And how can you pak brothers forget the Mr. Nobody-now in India team Joginder Sharma that Misbah fell for in the World t20 2007, with all these average bowlers India was able to contain and win tournaments. Now with a superior pace attack, it's no big deal for us to play in the big stage 2019. No matter how much you try to come up with your own arguments about your greatest ODI bowling attack, the fact remains that you bowling didn't win you all the tournaments. We don't claim that we have the greatest bowling attack in the world, but we don't need Starcs and Rabadas to win a tourment at the same time. Better let your best ODI bowling attack to avoid whitewashes in NZ instead of claiming here that India has no pace bowlers.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishta Aunty View Post
    I think people are judging India by the current crop they put out in Sri Lanka. That Siraj guy has to be one of the worst I've seen.

    In terms of their first choice bowling attack, the big question mark is Shami. He's a gun ODI bowler, and combined with Bhuvneshwar (in England where he can get some swing), and Bumrah (who I really rate despite his action), is a very very competent pace bowling line up. Pandy will do a role not dissimilar to Watson and Faulkner in previous Aussie World Cup teams.

    The issue is that there is a HUGE drop in quality with the other pacers after that. Yadav is erratic and expensive, Unadkat I can't see being a competent ODI bowler (maybe T20 but even that's doubtful), and the rest are completely unproven.

    It's not the best, but it's certainely not the worst. Australia is the only team I see having a truly GUN bowling attack. Rest have some flaws or the other. Where India has the edge is quality wrist-spinners. Don't rate Chahal, but Kuldeep is a gem. Question is whether they will play both spinners like they did at the CT for example.
    Pakistan's ODI attack is even worse than India. We don't have a wicket taking spin attack like India's Kuldeep and Chahal to rely on. Rate them or don't rate them but they have been putting up extraordinary numbers since debuting. Shadab has been merely useful with the ball l since coming on the scene, no comparison. We can be hopeful about Gohar, but that's about it for now. I mean, when Ashwin is your backup ODI bowler you know there is depth on the bench.

    As for pace. Bumrah is the no 1 ICC ODI bowler for a reason. A top performer and on par with Hasan going by their performances in the past two years. Kumar is a terrific opening bowler, better than Amir in getting it to swing on current form. With Shami fit that would make for an excellent ODI pace attack. Without Shami there is one supposed weak link. But Thakur has been pretty handy as far as I can see.

    And more to the point, who does Pakistan have who are better? Hasans excellence has kept us afloat for now. We saw what happened when he faded away in NZ. Amir is a perpetual disappointment these days. Never picks up wickets by the bunch. I'd basically keep him to T20s for now and let him play ODI only in ICC tourneys. Then there is Shinwari, surely promising but can we say more about him by now that say Thakur? Are we claiming Junaid is better than Shami, or whoever India will have to fill Shami's boots?

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    What matters is X-Factor and ability to bowl a few deliveries at 145 KMPH. Stats can take a backseat. Aamir will always remain a great bowler irrespective of what his numbers suggest since his comeback.
    No Amir is already confirmed as a huge disappointment. No greatness without wickets, I'm sorry. 145 kpm gets you no prizes. We have countless threads on this subject. Amir will remain a mediocre bowler with one or two excellent ICC tourney performances to his credit. A somewhat more special Ashish Nehra.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Pakistan's ODI attack is even worse than India. We don't have a wicket taking spin attack like India's Kuldeep and Chahal to rely on. Rate them or don't rate them but they have been putting up extraordinary numbers since debuting. Shadab has been merely useful with the ball l since coming on the scene, no comparison. We can be hopeful about Gohar, but that's about it for now. I mean, when Ashwin is your backup ODI bowler you know there is depth on the bench.

    As for pace. Bumrah is the no 1 ICC ODI bowler for a reason. A top performer and on par with Hasan going by their performances in the past two years. Kumar is a terrific opening bowler, better than Amir in getting it to swing on current form. With Shami fit that would make for an excellent ODI pace attack. Without Shami there is one supposed weak link. But Thakur has been pretty handy as far as I can see.

    And more to the point, who does Pakistan have who are better? Hasans excellence has kept us afloat for now. We saw what happened when he faded away in NZ. Amir is a perpetual disappointment these days. Never picks up wickets by the bunch. I'd basically keep him to T20s for now and let him play ODI only in ICC tourneys. Then there is Shinwari, surely promising but can we say more about him by now that say Thakur? Are we claiming Junaid is better than Shami, or whoever India will have to fill Shami's boots?
    There is absolutely no comparison between Shinwari and Thakur, Shankar, Unadkat etc. Shinwari destroyed this same Sri Lanka these guys are struggling to reign in. One of the most devastating spells of fast bowling in 2017. Please don't bother coming up with a post if you are going to call that as a fluke spell.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    There is absolutely no comparison between Shinwari and Thakur, Shankar, Unadkat etc. Shinwari destroyed this same Sri Lanka these guys are struggling to reign in. One of the most devastating spells of fast bowling in 2017. Please don't bother coming up with a post if you are going to call that as a fluke spell.
    Sure, Shinwari had a terrific spell, just as he has had terrific spells in domestics, while not for that matter being the best performer over the long term. His List A average is just about good, not extraordinary. Why should we expect his international career to be different? It is not about whether his performance was a fluke or not, but whether he can defy his record in domestics. Thakur took a 4-fer against South Africa, which to me is worth more than a 5 fer against a tattered Lanka side. I don't know how good is he is, I don't really care, but he is comparable to Shinwari in that so far both are speculative performers. They've done enough to make us hope, but we have to wait and see before we can say more.

  41. #121
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    Vijay Shankar

    Anyone who can't bowl fast these thinks he's automaticaly an ideal T20 pacer.

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    We are becoming a Factory of trundlers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Pakistan's ODI attack is even worse than India. We don't have a wicket taking spin attack like India's Kuldeep and Chahal to rely on. Rate them or don't rate them but they have been putting up extraordinary numbers since debuting. Shadab has been merely useful with the ball l since coming on the scene, no comparison. We can be hopeful about Gohar, but that's about it for now. I mean, when Ashwin is your backup ODI bowler you know there is depth on the bench.

    As for pace. Bumrah is the no 1 ICC ODI bowler for a reason. A top performer and on par with Hasan going by their performances in the past two years. Kumar is a terrific opening bowler, better than Amir in getting it to swing on current form. With Shami fit that would make for an excellent ODI pace attack. Without Shami there is one supposed weak link. But Thakur has been pretty handy as far as I can see.

    And more to the point, who does Pakistan have who are better? Hasans excellence has kept us afloat for now. We saw what happened when he faded away in NZ. Amir is a perpetual disappointment these days. Never picks up wickets by the bunch. I'd basically keep him to T20s for now and let him play ODI only in ICC tourneys. Then there is Shinwari, surely promising but can we say more about him by now that say Thakur? Are we claiming Junaid is better than Shami, or whoever India will have to fill Shami's boots?
    I agree with most points to be honest. Like I said I really rate the Indian first-choice ODI bowling attack especially in England (Bhuvneshwar, Bumrah, Shami ???, Pandya, Kuldeep/Chahal). And I really rate Washington based on what I can see today and in this tournament. Reminds of a young Ashwin who was a good ODI/T20 powerplay bowler when he came on the scene. Then as his Test form improved, his ODI form declined.

    On paper we have just as good if not a better attack (Amir, Hasan, Junaid, Shadab as first choice with Shinwari, Imad and others getting a look in based on the wicket). However, Pakistan on our day probably have the world's most devastating bowling attack, but the Indian bowlers give a 7/10 performance most games which is more than enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    There is absolutely no comparison between Shinwari and Thakur, Shankar, Unadkat etc. Shinwari destroyed this same Sri Lanka these guys are struggling to reign in. One of the most devastating spells of fast bowling in 2017. Please don't bother coming up with a post if you are going to call that as a fluke spell.
    Thankur was pretty impressive in SA to be fair. He's a weird one, terrible with the new ball but great with the old ball. I think that's what happens when you become a purely defensive bowler, where the knuckle ball becomes a stock delivery rather than a variation. Think that's the same issue with Unadkat, who doesn't have a proper fast bowler's stock delivery.

    I really rate Shinwari though; needs to be given more opportunities against better batting teams to see what he's made of. Unlike Thakur, I can see him actually becoming a strike bowler; not just one that steals a wicket through variations.

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishta Aunty View Post
    I agree with most points to be honest. Like I said I really rate the Indian first-choice ODI bowling attack especially in England (Bhuvneshwar, Bumrah, Shami ???, Pandya, Kuldeep/Chahal). And I really rate Washington based on what I can see today and in this tournament. Reminds of a young Ashwin who was a good ODI/T20 powerplay bowler when he came on the scene. Then as his Test form improved, his ODI form declined.

    On paper we have just as good if not a better attack (Amir, Hasan, Junaid, Shadab as first choice with Shinwari, Imad and others getting a look in based on the wicket). However, Pakistan on our day probably have the world's most devastating bowling attack, but the Indian bowlers give a 7/10 performance most games which is more than enough.



    Thankur was pretty impressive in SA to be fair. He's a weird one, terrible with the new ball but great with the old ball. I think that's what happens when you become a purely defensive bowler, where the knuckle ball becomes a stock delivery rather than a variation. Think that's the same issue with Unadkat, who doesn't have a proper fast bowler's stock delivery.

    I really rate Shinwari though; needs to be given more opportunities against better batting teams to see what he's made of. Unlike Thakur, I can see him actually becoming a strike bowler; not just one that steals a wicket through variations.
    Our ODI attack looks awful on paper. Look at the ICC bowler rankings for ODIs. Hasan is the only bowler we have in the top 20. Amir is ranked 31, Junaid 53. Whereas India has Bumrah at 1, Chahal at 8, Kuldeep at 15 ,Patel at 16, Kumar at 23. And Chahal and Kuldeep are only likely to keep climbing. Whereas with Pak, looking back at the CT it is a marvel they did as well as they did. Junaid was the second best pacer in the tournament, and Amir of course bowled one of the great spells in the final. Sarfraz must get considerable credit.

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishta Aunty View Post
    I agree with most points to be honest. Like I said I really rate the Indian first-choice ODI bowling attack especially in England (Bhuvneshwar, Bumrah, Shami ???, Pandya, Kuldeep/Chahal). And I really rate Washington based on what I can see today and in this tournament. Reminds of a young Ashwin who was a good ODI/T20 powerplay bowler when he came on the scene. Then as his Test form improved, his ODI form declined.

    On paper we have just as good if not a better attack (Amir, Hasan, Junaid, Shadab as first choice with Shinwari, Imad and others getting a look in based on the wicket). However, Pakistan on our day probably have the world's most devastating bowling attack, but the Indian bowlers give a 7/10 performance most games which is more than enough.



    Thankur was pretty impressive in SA to be fair. He's a weird one, terrible with the new ball but great with the old ball. I think that's what happens when you become a purely defensive bowler, where the knuckle ball becomes a stock delivery rather than a variation. Think that's the same issue with Unadkat, who doesn't have a proper fast bowler's stock delivery.

    I really rate Shinwari though; needs to be given more opportunities against better batting teams to see what he's made of. Unlike Thakur, I can see him actually becoming a strike bowler; not just one that steals a wicket through variations.
    Our mediocre pace attack apart, with its reliance on Hasan, our biggest weakness is that we don't have a genuine strike bowler a la Tahrir or Chahal/Kuldeep in the spin department. Shadab is just abut useful so far, not a bowler to pick up 4fers and 5fers. Maybe one should begin to ask why.

  46. #126
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    Indian pacers will not win India anything... even Bumrah/BK. They are simply not wicket taking bowlers.

    It’s the spinners who win India games by taking the crucial wickets and choking the opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Our ODI attack looks awful on paper. Look at the ICC bowler rankings for ODIs. Hasan is the only bowler we have in the top 20. Amir is ranked 31, Junaid 53. Whereas India has Bumrah at 1, Chahal at 8, Kuldeep at 15 ,Patel at 16, Kumar at 23. And Chahal and Kuldeep are only likely to keep climbing. Whereas with Pak, looking back at the CT it is a marvel they did as well as they did. Junaid was the second best pacer in the tournament, and Amir of course bowled one of the great spells in the final. Sarfraz must get considerable credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Our mediocre pace attack apart, with its reliance on Hasan, our biggest weakness is that we don't have a genuine strike bowler a la Tahrir or Chahal/Kuldeep in the spin department. Shadab is just abut useful so far, not a bowler to pick up 4fers and 5fers. Maybe one should begin to ask why.
    I think that stems from how we have perceived the role of fast-bowlers versus India too. For us, fast bowlers have been a strike wicket taking option while for India they have mainly been a defensive option with the spinner meant to do the damage. The role of India fast bowlers, even more so now in this hyper runs-fuelled world has been to produce a 7/10 performance which you'd back the Indian batting line-up to chase.

    We don't have that luxury. Or generally the luxury of having big totals to defend either. Thus we've had our fast bowlers having to go out there to bowl that magic delivery, which generally leaves lesser room for error too. And in this era of smaller boundaries, larger bats, lack of reverse, and flat wickets, that generally means you get smashed. We need to take a long hard look at how limited over bowling has changed.

    Finally agree re: Shadab. I put it down to a lack of game intelligence on his part though and coaching lapses: he's neither as fast as Rashid Khan that he can afford to keep bowling multiple googlies that keep skidding on, not does he bowl super slow like Kuldeep and Chahal to give the ball enough time to spin. And he keep overbowling his googly rather than keeping that as a surprise delivery after setting the batsman up. Hope future PSL's puts forward a champion spinner. Both Chahal and Kuldeep from what I know came to prominence through the IPL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Indian pacers will not win India anything... even Bumrah/BK. They are simply not wicket taking bowlers.

    It’s the spinners who win India games by taking the crucial wickets and choking the opposition.
    Agreed completely. But I have to say I don't see the problem with that. In this incredibly run-fuelled era, the focus is no longer on bowling teams out, but rather restricting them to a chaseable total. Very few fast bowlers are bonafide early overs wicket-takers. In fact the best two ODI teams going around India, England, don't have a pure-wicket taking opening bowler.

    I can only think of Starc and Boult who fall in that category. And to an extent Rabada though he's much better in Tests than ODI's.

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Indian pacers will not win India anything... even Bumrah/BK. They are simply not wicket taking bowlers.

    It’s the spinners who win India games by taking the crucial wickets and choking the opposition.
    Complete unadulterated nonsense. Bumrah has a SR in ODIs of 29 and is ranked the no 1 bowler in the form. Chahal, they guy who supposedly really takes wickets, has a SR of 27. Wasim Akram's SR in ODIs was 36. If we are looking for defensive pace bowlers in the subcontinent who are unable to take wickets, no one can beat Amir these days.

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Vijay Shankar

    Anyone who can't bowl fast these thinks he's automaticaly an ideal T20 pacer.
    That’s true. Lol. And then they share the secret behind their “slow balls”.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarmfast View Post
    A little grammar helps. Theres a difference between ' will ' and 'can'!

    About back up bowlers, how about just checking 2 or 3 names which I quote here - Khalil Ahmed, Avesh, Thampi, Saini.
    Got a glimpse of Thampi today. Great potential as our brother rightarmfast mentioned earlier.

  52. #132
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    ODIs are more of a batsman's game. They have a decent ODI attack that can limit the opposition to 300. They can chase that much.

    Bowling second, they are a top class fielding side and that aids their bowlers immensely.

    I always prefer strong bowlers who seek to eliminate batsman and keep the oppositions score in check that way. However being economical enough so that you chase only within a range you are comfortable with is another approach.

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Got a glimpse of Thampi today. Great potential as our brother rightarmfast mentioned earlier.
    Guess you saw of him after a bit of lay off he was fine in his previous outings, but than ab is a different beast altogether, even what's his Name Hasan Ali went for plenty, doesn't mean he is a bad bowler, Has got potential needs to work on that, he isn't the first one to be hit, even legendary Waqar was tored apart in Chennai and Shoaib got his career ended in sri Lanka world Cup so he is new and will only get better. I am overall happy with up coming pacers, mavi, avesh, rajpoot, siddharth, thambi and prasidh Krishna.

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Got a glimpse of Thampi today. Great potential as our brother rightarmfast mentioned earlier.
    People have bad days.Even Hassan went for over 100 in 10 overs against England and then got murdered by an out-of-form Yuvi in the first game in CT.And again its IPL.Even Dale Steyn got whooped on those pattas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Got a glimpse of Thampi today. Great potential as our brother rightarmfast mentioned earlier.
    Yes my brother. Keep telling yourself. And one day you will start believing it too.

  56. #136
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    Bowling is not a concern, India never relied on bowlers to win matches. It's the batting that's concern, India's middle order is rubbish. Pandya, Pant, Pandey are all hacks. Dhoni will tuk tuk for 20 balls and destroy all momentum laid by Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit.
    Last edited by hadi123; 18th May 2018 at 21:56.

  57. #137
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    The best pace attack in the world is supposed to be the Australians. However:

    South Africa in the recent Test series against India scored 1,380 runs over 6 innings at an average of 23 runs per wkt.
    South Africa in the recent Test series against Australia scored 2,460 runs over 8 innings at an average of 35.14 runs per wkt.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...s/1075979.html

    The Indian pacers definitely outperformed Australian pacers by a large margin in SA recently. We can look forward to them doing well in England.

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Bowling is not a concern, India never relied on bowlers to win matches. It's the batting that's concern, India's middle order is rubbish. Pandya, Pant, Pandey are all hacks. Dhoni will tuk tuk for 20 balls and destroy all momentum laid by Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit.
    Abey pant isnt even in the team, it's jadhav
    Last edited by hadi123; 18th May 2018 at 21:55.

  59. #139
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    The Indians may not have bowlers to win the WC ... they certainly have Batsmen to win the WC !!!!!!!

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Jaydev Unadkat, Shardul Thakur, Mohammad Siraj, Dhawal Kulkarni. These are all club level bowlers and not any better than the previous crop of Praveen Kumar, RP Singh, Irfan Pathan etc.

    Now that Shami has a doubtful future....with an exception of Bumrah, India’s ODI pace bowling cupboard looks more or less empty.

    With this kind of bench strength Indians can abandon any hope of winning the world cup.
    This is just silliness. Bumrah is the world's no 1 ODI bowler. Then you have Bhuvi, and if Shami is fit is a superb attack, if not, not difficult to imagine the can find a third pacer who is in decent form.

    I am more worried about Pakistan's pace battery for the WC. It's Hasan or bust pretty much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The best pace attack in the world is supposed to be the Australians. However:

    South Africa in the recent Test series against India scored 1,380 runs over 6 innings at an average of 23 runs per wkt.
    South Africa in the recent Test series against Australia scored 2,460 runs over 8 innings at an average of 35.14 runs per wkt.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...s/1075979.html

    The Indian pacers definitely outperformed Australian pacers by a large margin in SA recently. We can look forward to them doing well in England.
    So you’ve completely taken the pitches out of the equation?

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    So you’ve completely taken the pitches out of the equation?
    Also the WC is now in test format

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    Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Pandya, Kuldeep/Chahal is more than enough as a bowling line up. Add in Jadhav's dibbly-dobbly pies and I don't think that's going to be the reason for India to lose. However, I can totally see a repeat of WC2015 SF/CT2017 final, where the top 3 fails and it's game over as no one else can win matches on their own.

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    So you’ve completely taken the pitches out of the equation?
    Tell me about the pitches.

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    Not to be mean.

    But Bumrah ain’t a good bowler.

    Shaheen is way better than him, this isn’t a joke at all.
    You’ll see what I mean when he plays against Scotland next month. Inshallah.

  66. #146
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    Rahul (not sure whether selectors/management will think alike or force him at No.4)
    Dhawan
    Kohli
    Rohit (new role)
    Dhoni (he won't go for sure)
    Kartik/Pandey/Kedar/Rayudu (Actually this spot is open, but I am sure we will find one before WC)
    Pandya (he will probably get a run till WC, I don't think we will risk trying another especially as its happening in England we want a seam-bowling alrounder)
    Bhuvaneshwar
    Shami
    Kuldeep
    Bumrah

    We also have to find out one last time whether Jadeja & Ashwin (who does well in English conditions) can still be in scheme of things. Also Chahal, Krunal, Umesh, etc, should form good reserves.

    I think with the remaining time we will sort out few things and we will definitely be competitive/strong in ICC Event as usual, but may not be firm favorites! Dhoni will be around mainly because of Kohli's lack of captaincy skills!

  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asch Ali View Post
    Not to be mean.

    But Bumrah ain’t a good bowler.

    Shaheen is way better than him, this isn’t a joke at all.
    You’ll see what I mean when he plays against Scotland next month. Inshallah.
    Agree. And S Kaul is better than Shaheen. You will get to know soon. Not joking.

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamLakhan View Post
    Rahul (not sure whether selectors/management will think alike or force him at No.4)
    Dhawan
    Kohli
    Rohit (new role)
    Dhoni (he won't go for sure)
    Kartik/Pandey/Kedar/Rayudu (Actually this spot is open, but I am sure we will find one before WC)
    Pandya (he will probably get a run till WC, I don't think we will risk trying another especially as its happening in England we want a seam-bowling alrounder)
    Bhuvaneshwar
    Shami
    Kuldeep
    Bumrah

    We also have to find out one last time whether Jadeja & Ashwin (who does well in English conditions) can still be in scheme of things. Also Chahal, Krunal, Umesh, etc, should form good reserves.

    I think with the remaining time we will sort out few things and we will definitely be competitive/strong in ICC Event as usual, but may not be firm favorites! Dhoni will be around mainly because of Kohli's lack of captaincy skills!
    If India wants to win the world cup they need a better pace bowler than Bhuvi. Shami needs to remain fit and firing.

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asch Ali View Post
    Not to be mean.

    But Bumrah ain’t a good bowler.

    Shaheen is way better than him, this isn’t a joke at all.
    You’ll see what I mean when he plays against Scotland next month. Inshallah.
    Name:  Captureb5.JPG
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    Not to be mean, but this 5-year-old boy that Wasim recently found is way better than Bumrah, Hasan Ali, Boult and Starc. This isn't a joke at all.
    You will see what I mean when this kid plays against big teams after 20 years. Inshallah!

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Agree. And S Kaul is better than Shaheen. You will get to know soon. Not joking.
    Siddharth Kaul averages 11 with the bat. I agree that he’s a better batsman than Afridi. While Afridi averages 0.33 in T20 cricket, and 4.00 in FC cricket with a couple of Not Outs.

    But we’ll see, Afridi vs Kaul is on!

  71. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    If India wants to win the world cup they need a better pace bowler than Bhuvi. Shami needs to remain fit and firing.
    Certainly there are not many better than Bhuvi at the death. He can be used in the initial overs & death overs (even if it is 7 to 8 overs quota), can be kept away from middle overs. Umesh can be that better bowler (has wicket taking ability as well), but he has his own issues!

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    Name:  Captureb5.JPG
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    Not to be mean, but this 5-year-old boy that Wasim recently found is way better than Bumrah, Hasan Ali, Boult and Starc. This isn't a joke at all.
    You will see what I mean when this kid plays against big teams after 20 years. Inshallah!
    My quoted post was not intended to be a joke at all. The kid you have posted seems to be for comedic purposes. I think you’ve misunderstood my earlier post.

    Shaheen Afridi is an international fast bowler, so therefore he can be compared to Bumrah. Shaheen bowls 140-150 kmph and has sharp swing and bounce. Shaheen may have only played a few matches, but it doesn’t take a lot of matches to become a star. One example may be Fakhar Zaman, or the Indian bowler Y. Chahal. These both become stars in minimal amount of matches played. Should they not be appreciated?

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asch Ali View Post
    Siddharth Kaul averages 11 with the bat. I agree that he’s a better batsman than Afridi. While Afridi averages 0.33 in T20 cricket, and 4.00 in FC cricket with a couple of Not Outs.

    But we’ll see, Afridi vs Kaul is on!
    Of course he is a better batsman as well. Everyone (not an Afridi) is automatically a better batsman than someone having “Afridi” as last name. So Kaul is a better batsman, fielder and bowler than Shaheen Afridi. I don’t think there is any competition “on” here. Shaheen Afridi has already lost this one.
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 19th May 2018 at 06:09.

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Of course he is a better batsman as well. Everyone (not an Afridi) is automatically a better batsman than someone having “Afridi” as last name. So Kaul is a better batsman, fielder and bowler than Shaheen Afridi. I don’t think there is any competition “on” here. Shaheen Afridi has already lost this one.
    Shaheen Afridi is set to play big dogs next years in the World Cup, including India. The question still stands if India is willing to let Kaul, or ANY few fast bowler for the matter, play in the World Cup. If Kaul, Siraj, or any few fast bowler, plays it will be a fierce competition in India’s World Cup campaign.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    So you’ve completely taken the pitches out of the equation?
    So you mean Indian bowlers bowled on bowling friendly pitches. Ok. And Kohli was the highest scorer in a series where Indian trundlers were that good. So Kohli is no longer an ftb, amritite?


    Or the pitches magically turned flat everytime Kohli came out to bat?

  76. #156
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    No team will win the World Cup without good bowlers but what if the batters put the game out of reach of the opposition?


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    No team will win the World Cup without good bowlers but what if the batters put the game out of reach of the opposition?
    Can't happen on every day. Batsman will fail too one day.

  78. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asch Ali View Post
    Not to be mean.

    But Bumrah ain’t a good bowler.

    Shaheen is way better than him, this isn’t a joke at all.
    You’ll see what I mean when he plays against Scotland next month. Inshallah.
    Dude you are seriously underrating Shaheen Shah Afridi here why comparing him with Indian Trundler
    The kid is Future ATG
    And even though he yet to make his debut in ODI he is far better than starc steyn rabada
    Indians have a bad habit of overhyping ther players..ignore them

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishta Aunty View Post
    Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Pandya, Kuldeep/Chahal is more than enough as a bowling line up. Add in Jadhav's dibbly-dobbly pies and I don't think that's going to be the reason for India to lose. However, I can totally see a repeat of WC2015 SF/CT2017 final, where the top 3 fails and it's game over as no one else can win matches on their own.
    That, on paper, would be the best ODI attack in the world in fact. Relentless attack, with the spinners being a trump card. Pakistan would die for a true match winning ODI spinner. Really feeling the absence of Ajmal.

    Unfair on the top three to say they fail in the CT 2017, though. They were simply out bowled on the day by a bowler who had until then done not very much in the tournament.

  80. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Tell me about the pitches.
    Spicy.

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