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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    The problem arguing with old era fanatics such as you , Junaids and Robert is that there is no place for facts in these discussions. Nostalgia is the king here. For instance the picture painted by the 3 of you about old era cricket is laughably different from what can be seen on numerous youtube videos from Older era's. (In before the usual jibes about using YT clips to decide)

    Here is a challenge for you: Go find me a YT clip that best represents the supposedly glorious ERAs of cricket that are now supposedly "lost" to the world and explain to me in deep technical terms why the piece of action is soo breathtaking that I must change my cricketing know how.




    The last time we discussed Viv Richards you quietly slipped away from the thread when uncomfortable facts were introduced. Nothing different is going to happen now. Let me know if you have the capacity for a proper facts based discussion instead of presenting your views as "facts" and supplementing them with innuendo, trolling and jibes to do the rest.
    I am old but it is clearly your memory that is on the wane. You proved zilch, you just make silly posts that reject all established parameters. At heart you are just a triggered Indian who wants all to parrot your views.

    I saw Viv. I saw Sachin. No one (hardly anyone) who saw both rates SRT higher. Viv has peerless peer acclaim. Your generation only knows statsguru and youtube. Are we to suspend what our eyes saw?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    So the likes of Shane Warne, Ricky Ponting, Andy Flower, Matthew Hayden, Brian Lara, Viv Richards himself, and your own Hanif mohammad etc are blinded by Indian patriotism.

    Got it.
    Rather Viv is too humble to cite himself. It is called class. Viv has it.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Rather Viv is too humble to cite himself. It is called class. Viv has it.
    What about others?

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    I am old but it is clearly your memory that is on the wane. You proved zilch, you just make silly posts that reject all established parameters. At heart you are just a triggered Indian who wants all to parrot your views.
    So asking what was Viv's accomplishments against the best bowlers of his time who were all West Indians is Silly ?


    I saw Viv. I saw Sachin. No one (hardly anyone) who saw both rates SRT higher. Viv has peerless peer acclaim. Your generation only knows statsguru and youtube. Are we to suspend what our eyes saw?
    While I never take words of any expert to decide who is better but since you so emphatically claimed that none rates Tendulkar higher than Viv ... I present to you Wisden, Bradman, Hanif and Viv himself. Let me know if you need more big names.

    And are you suggesting that the YT videos of old ERA cricket are all fake ?

    But as predicted the bluster has come out right at the outset and then you have the audacity to ask for a "Seniors only" forum.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    What about others?
    Applies to most. Ali once called Lewis the greatest. In his heart he knew it not to be true. Even SRT would cite x or y. All decent folks do - to cite yourself is crass.

    Those who played with and against IVA/saw him rank none close. Simple truth.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    So asking what was Viv's accomplishments against the best bowlers of his time who were all West Indians is Silly ?



    While I never take words of any expert to decide who is better but since you so emphatically claimed that none rates Tendulkar higher than Viv ... I present to you Wisden, Bradman, Hanif and Viv himself. Let me know if you need more big names.

    And are you suggesting that the YT videos of old ERA cricket are all fake ?

    But as predicted the bluster has come out right at the outset and then you have the audacity to ask for a "Seniors only" forum.
    As Viv could not face his own bowlers in INTERNATIONAL games that is a useless point when rating folks in international terms. Else GA Hick is a giant.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    As Viv could not face his own bowlers in INTERNATIONAL games that is a useless point when rating folks in international terms. Else GA Hick is a giant.
    dont you guys go on and on about how great the county system was and how strong the FC cricket was back in the day as part of your regular Nostalgia induced lament ?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    dont you guys go on and on about how great the county system was and how strong the FC cricket was back in the day as part of your regular Nostalgia induced lament ?
    Not once have I said that. CC then > CC now but no patch on intl games.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    I am old but it is clearly your memory that is on the wane. You proved zilch, you just make silly posts that reject all established parameters. At heart you are just a triggered Indian who wants all to parrot your views.

    I saw Viv. I saw Sachin. No one (hardly anyone) who saw both rates SRT higher. Viv has peerless peer acclaim. Your generation only knows statsguru and youtube. Are we to suspend what our eyes saw?
    I am not sure if it is worth the effort waste time on someone who's so biased and blinded by nostalgia that he's flat out blurting lies but I'll just leave 2 words to at least burst your lie of "no one who saw both rates srt higher"- Hanif Mohammad.

    You can go back and bury you head in a sand if you want but no way is viv outrightly better than sachin, sure viv was better than sachin certain aspects of the game but srt trumps viv as an overall package, you can still prefer viv over sachin, I have no problems with that but don't go out making claims and passing them as facts when they are not.

  10. #90
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    Am I missing something? Is Viv an Indian?

    Let's get back on track here please.


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Not once have I said that. CC then > CC now but no patch on intl games.
    your buddy @Junaids certainly does rate the county system of the 70s very highly ... As do many of the usual old era suspects ... how else do you think someone like Barry Richards gained the unreal fame that he has ?

    Here is Barry Richards batting --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyHvFArouAM

    Why dont you tell us how that is supposedly superior batting skill than what you see today ? Keep it to pure technical and see if you can for once not rely on bluster smilies and trolling as substitutes for facts.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    your buddy @Junaids certainly does rate the county system of the 70s very highly ... As do many of the usual old era suspects ... how else do you think someone like Barry Richards gained the unreal fame that he has ?

    Here is Barry Richards batting --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyHvFArouAM

    Why dont you tell us how that is supposedly superior batting skill than what you see today ? Keep it to pure technical and see if you can for once not rely on bluster smilies and trolling as substitutes for facts.
    Personally, I believe that it is dishonest to compare old era players to new era players and then say new era players are better because everything 100 years down the line does generally get better.

    If you compared a 1950 Porsche with a 2015 model and said 2015 Porche has more features, that would be always true.

    But if the 1950 Porsche was built in 2015, what's to say it won't have the same features?

    Similarly, players like Grace, Larwood, Bradman can only play what's in front of them. You can't ignore their achievements, which were great for their era.

    100 years down the line, perhaps cricket will become so mechanized or technological or changed to an extent, that, people would be laughing at Tendulkar.

    Unless you are willing to put your neck on the line and say that while 70 years ago cricket was laughable, but 200 years later, Tendulkar will still stay same. (But once you do say that, you get inherently biased).


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Personally, I believe that it is dishonest to compare old era players to new era players and then say new era players are better because everything 100 years down the line does generally get better.

    If you compared a 1950 Porsche with a 2015 model and said 2015 Porche has more features, that would be always true.

    But if the 1950 Porsche was built in 2015, what's to say it won't have the same features?

    Similarly, players like Grace, Larwood, Bradman can only play what's in front of them. You can't ignore their achievements, which were great for their era.

    100 years down the line, perhaps cricket will become so mechanized or technological or changed to an extent, that, people would be laughing at Tendulkar.

    Unless you are willing to put your neck on the line and say that while 70 years ago cricket was laughable, but 200 years later, Tendulkar will still stay same. (But once you do say that, you get inherently biased).
    you dont understand ... these people actually believe that the 1950 Porsche was better than the 2015 Porsche ... or in the case of Tendulkar vs Old ERA batsmen they actually believe the older batsmen were better as was the overall quality of cricket in the old ERAs ... and they will give you some inane reasons to back that up which

    Wait and watch ... bujhee will never once indulge in a pure technical and facts based discussion. His best bets are to shout down using his age and having supposedly watch Viv bat as substitutes for everything else.

  14. #94
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    He's the best in limited overs and behind both Tendulkar and Gavaskar in tests.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildSwing View Post
    I am not sure if it is worth the effort waste time on someone who's so biased and blinded by nostalgia that he's flat out blurting lies but I'll just leave 2 words to at least burst your lie of "no one who saw both rates srt higher"- Hanif Mohammad.

    You can go back and bury you head in a sand if you want but no way is viv outrightly better than sachin, sure viv was better than sachin certain aspects of the game but srt trumps viv as an overall package, you can still prefer viv over sachin, I have no problems with that but don't go out making claims and passing them as facts when they are not.
    This statement can be flipped. How is SRT better than Viv? He is not even definitively better than Lara or Ponting in his own era. Viv was a better Test bat and a better ODI bat.

  16. #96
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    is West Indian which does not mean he is from the western part of India, why is he being discussed? may or may not be better than in Tests (he's waayyy ahead in ODIs) but it's Kohli vs Sachin in this thread

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    I should add, Gavaskar was the FIRST to break 10000 Test Run barrier, and the FIRST to break Bradman's 29 Test Century record. He was knocking the West Indian quartet for fun, WITHOUT a helmet.

    You had to see him, to believe him.
    In which tour??

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildSwing View Post
    Lol so you are a kid, that explains a lot, btw I am the same age as kohli, you don't have to be a grandpa to have watched sachin, it is pointless to discuss the intricacies of test cricket with a kid, I was going to dismantle your arguments but it would be a wasted effort on a kid who doesn't yet have the mental capacity to understand those arguments, I am not trying to insult you, I genuinely mean that you don't understand cricket right now, in few years from now you will be able to appreciate the difference in class between sachin and kohli, till then have fun.
    REally now? Your post is full of insults and then you say you're trying not to insult. I maybe 4 years younger than you at most but dont act all mighty. Bro i can sit here and disrespect you but i even politely offered you to have our discussion if you wish to in private so we don't blow up the forum. You want to dismantle my argument, go ahead. Take a shot. Tell us all how a 60+ match of internationl cricket experience + 13 extra year of internation match experience doesn't play as an advantage. This should be fun.
    Last edited by hadi123; 8th April 2018 at 15:54.

  19. #99
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    Smith >> Kohli (fact).

    And according to this thread, Kohli > Sachin

    Thus now itís established that Smith >>> Sachin..

  20. #100
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    Kohli is the "best since Viv" according to PP.

  21. #101
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    The fact that Kohli is being talked about in such terms ..... means he is close to being there !!! How he does performs in England, will be a reeeeeeal decider. I am sure he is itching to go to England let everyone see what he can do. Players in his position are itching to prove it to themselves, before anyone else.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by light View Post
    REally now? Your post is full of insults and then you say you're trying not to insult. I maybe 4 years younger than you at most but dont act all mighty. Bro i can sit here and disrespect you but i even politely offered you to have our discussion if you wish to in private so we don't blow up the forum. You want to dismantle my argument, go ahead. Take a shot. Tell us all how a 60+ match of internationl cricket experience + 13 extra year of internation match experience doesn't play as an advantage. This should be fun.
    Insult? Lol you yourself said you were born in the kohli era, so it was perfectly obvious to assume that you were a kid, and kids certainly don't appreciate the intricacies of test cricket, even I didn't appreciate test cricket as a kid, so it wasn't an insult, if you are just 4 years younger than me then not sure how you belong to the kohli era.

    Regarding your arguments, lol, first tell me what the discussion is about? You stated that Kohli is on par with sachin already, I pointed out Kohli has a long long way to go to be called on par with sachin. There is nothing to even argue about this statement because anyone with a sane brain would agree that Kohli has a long way to go before catching up with sachin in the test format. But you still insist on dragging this on and asked me to compare them at the same stage, so I gave you the facts about sachin scoring 30+ centuries by the time he was 29 and you come back and say that sachin started his career at 16 so he had more time. So? How is that even a point? This just shows that sachin was so damn good at 16 that he got a chance to play earlier, this further adds to my point that sachin is far ahead of kohli in the test format, but let me still humour you, even after 66 tests ( the same no. of tests kohli has played) sachin had a higher average than kohli. But that's not even the point because even if kohli had a better average after 66 tests that wouldn't put him on par with sachin because of what sachin achieved by the end of his career. Kohli has a long long way to go to be called on par or anywhere close to sachin, he has a good case in odis but the gap him in test cricket puts him far behind sachin, so not sure why you are bent on dragging this simple point when it doesn't even need any explanation or argument.
    Last edited by hadi123; 8th April 2018 at 15:54.

  23. #103
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    Exactly 10 years since he made his international cricket debut! Crazy that he has achieved so much yet is not even 30.

  24. #104
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    There is a famous saying in india:
    Xyz batsman badhiya hai par
    Sachin Sachin hai.
    The most complete batsman of all time
    Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar.

  25. #105
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    Sachin is the benchmark. Don't disagree there are certain areas where Kohli is better than sachin just like in certain areas Laxman/Dravid/Sehwag were better than Sachin.

  26. #106
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    Yes, comfortably.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  27. #107
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    "Best since Viv".

  28. #108
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    Not yet.Needs to keep going hard for at least 5 more years.Tendulkar's main mojo was despite 2 career ending injuries,he was still the best batsman in the world at age 40 in 2011.

  29. #109
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    No one should question Kohli's batsmanship. If Kohli's match winning capabilities with the bat takes him and his team to victories of the highest occasion i.e. WC, CT, T20 WC, a test series win vs England (though unlikely, if it's this current one than holy crap), Australia, SA, then I feel he could comfortably become India's greatest batsman.

  30. #110
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    According to Tusker he is, cuz the game evolves and each era players are better than those of past eras

  31. #111
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    Arguably.. but I would rate him higher than Tendulkar..

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    According to Tusker he is, cuz the game evolves and each era players are better than those of past eras
    And according to you the standards drop as time progresses ?


    PS:. This discussion will end just like all the other OLD vs NEW discussions that old era fanatics indulge in. You will quietly slip away from this thread soon.

  33. #113
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    The standards Kohli is subjected to is ludicrous.

    Its fair to assume if his name was John Snow and he captained a team of white blokes he would be an ATG for most people already.

    But now we keep having to wait for his next heroics to start accepting him let alone being an ATG.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  34. #114
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    Kohli > Gavaskar+Tendulqar.
    Kohli is the 2nd Bradman in this era. If we have even a half of Kohli type batsman in our team we will win 2019 World Cup.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    And according to you the standards drop as time progresses ?


    PS:. This discussion will end just like all the other OLD vs NEW discussions that old era fanatics indulge in. You will quietly slip away from this thread soon.
    We have lives dude, no point in teaching someone multiplication if he can't add

  36. #116
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    He is number 4 at this point. Behind Dravid Gavaskar and Tendulkar as a test batsman.

  37. #117
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    No that is Tendu right now. Win a wc with leading performances, win some big test series then we can talk especially the test series. And tbh he has a much better team than what Tendu had and oppositions also weak.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  38. #118
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    The longer he bats the more dangerous he becomes. Will finish as India's greatest batsmen.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    We have lives dude, no point in teaching someone multiplication if he can't add
    Is that why you guys keep gloating about old ERA over and over and over thread after thread day after day ... doesnt seem to get in the way of your lives then as long as people are nodding their heads and swooning ?

    Nobody is asking you to respond to posts ASAP in realtime. Take all the time you want to respond but running away everytime the problems are exposed suggests that you are not really interested in a proper discussion.
    Last edited by Tusker; 20th August 2018 at 00:27.

  40. #120
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    The greatest of all time, not just form India.


    Chak de.


  41. #121
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    Two of the toughest tours, toughest batting conditions and he comes out the best batsman from both teams. This guy can achieve anything he wants. Second only to Sachin for me, and no reason why he can't surpass him too.

  42. #122
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    Privilege to see this guy bat. IT is good for world cricket. This guy is also gorgeous batsman to watch.

  43. #123
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    Not a biggy, but noticed Kohli looking a littler fatter. Visible fat in his lower abdomen, bit of man breast, face a little chubbier.

  44. #124
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    In ODIs, he is currently 2nd greatest Indian and by the time retires, he should go down as India's greatest ever.

    In tests, he is behind Tendulkar, Gavaskar and possibly Dravid as well. However, by the time he retires, I think he will definitely end up at Gavaskar level, if not Tendulkar level.

    Overall, given the LO formats hold quite a lot of value, Kohli should end up as India's 2nd greatest ever batsmen and should also start featuring in many cricketer's top 10 greatest cricketers of all-time list.

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    In ODIs, he is currently 2nd greatest Indian and by the time retires, he should go down as India's greatest ever.

    In tests, he is behind Tendulkar, Gavaskar and possibly Dravid as well. However, by the time he retires, I think he will definitely end up at Gavaskar level, if not Tendulkar level.

    Overall, given the LO formats hold quite a lot of value, Kohli should end up as India's 2nd greatest ever batsmen and should also start featuring in many cricketer's top 10 greatest cricketers of all-time list.
    Quite accurate reading of Indian batting.

  46. #126
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    According to Junaid Khan, no

  47. #127
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    No never.Dravid is the greatest and most underrated Indian Batsman

  48. #128
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    Nope, Sachin Tendulkar is - and not just Indian, but World's.

  49. #129
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    Top 5 Kohli ODI performances?

    What are your top 5 ODI performances by Virat Kohli ?

  50. #130
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    2 of Virat's best ODI innings till date came quite early in his career, 183 against Pakistan in BD and that innings at Hobart against SL.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realromeo View Post
    Not a biggy, but noticed Kohli looking a littler fatter. Visible fat in his lower abdomen, bit of man breast, face a little chubbier.
    Actually a bit of fat is required for the body to tolerate the heat & consume the daily load of work (game) in Indian outdoor environment as he is exposed for a long time! I think he has also turned to vegetarian diet of late (a lot of carbohydrates), this gives him the endurance power to stay focused for a longer period of time!

  52. #132
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    Kohli achieved the feat during the second ODI against West Indies
    Skipper Virat Kohli has eclipsed former captain Sourav Ganguly to become the second highest run-getter for India in one-day internationals.

    Kohli achieved the feat during the second ODI against West Indies when he hit Jason Holder for a boundary in the 32nd over.

    The 30-year-old, who had a relatively quiet World Cup in England, went on to score his 42nd ODI century, his first since March, as India registered a 59-run win to take a 1-0 lead in the three-ODI series on Sunday.


    His 125-ball 120 took his aggregate to 11,406 runs in 238 innings, surpassing Ganguly’s record of 11,363 runs in 311 ODIs.

    “Virat Kohli another master class in one day cricket @imVkohli @bcci.. what a player,” Ganguly wrote on Twitter.

    Kohli is now only behind Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 18,426 runs in his illustrious ODI career. Kohli is also seven hundred short of Tendulkar’s record of 49 ODI hundreds.

    Overall, Kohli is in the eighth spot in the list of highest run-scorer in ODIs.

    Earlier in the day, the Indian captain had shattered a 26-year-old record when he surpassed Pakistan’s Javed Miandad for most runs by any batsman in ODIs against the West Indies.

    Kohli was 19 runs shy of the landmark when he came into bat in the second ODI against the West Indies and he overtook Miandad’s tally of 1930 runs with a single in the fifth over bowled by Jason Holder.

    This was Kohli’s 34th ODI against the West Indies while Miandad had accumulated his runs from 64 matches.

    The prolific Indian captain has so far hit seven hundreds against the West Indies and has an average of over 71 in ODIs against the Caribbeans. Australia’s Mark Waugh is a distant third with 1708 runs from 47 matches, followed by South Africa all-rounder Jacques Kallis (1666 runs in 40 matches) and Pakistan’s Rameez Raja (1624 runs in 53 matches).

    Kohli played his first ODI against West Indies in the 2009 Champions Trophy in Johannesburg in which he scored an unbeaten 79. His first hundred against the West Indies came in 2011 in Visakhapatnam.

    Kohli’s domination against the West Indies can be gauged from the fact that he struck four back-to-back centuries against them between July 2017 and October 2018.

    https://www.thehindu.com/sport/crick...le28996090.ece


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  53. #133
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    He is at No.2 after SRT and will remain there.

    In tests specifically, he should end up no.3 after Tendulkar and Gavaskar.

  54. #134
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    Vivian Richards was the greatest ever... no one comes close to him.
    From modern day greats Tendulkar was good but I think Kohli has achieved more success and has surpassed Tendulkar.

  55. #135
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    Kohli needs another WC and this debate will settle down for always.

    He is a beast and a freak.

    Gotta love his way of batting.

    I wish Pakistan had someone like him along with Babar.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mueez View Post
    Kohli needs another WC and this debate will settle down for always.

    He is a beast and a freak.

    Gotta love his way of batting.

    I wish Pakistan had someone like him along with Babar.
    One more bad WC and he's out the top 5.

    He has to win India the WC or do well individually in KOs, otherwise all his runs in JAMODIs will count for nothing. They'll be used to make a mockery of him.

    The dude has folded in two of the biggest matches of his career in spectacular fashion. Deer in headlights when he faced up to Boult and Amir.

    Even Indians are mocking him.
    Last edited by Aman; 13th August 2019 at 03:31.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  57. #137
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    What Kohli needs to do is move himself to 4 and bring in Gill at 3.

    He's dynamic enough to impact the game from there, putting Gill at 4 might put too much pressure for him to accelerate given the top 3 they have. At 3 Gill will be able to take his time to get in and play at his own pace, Kohli can change gears better so 4 wont be an issue for him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    One more bad WC and he's out the top 5.

    He has to win India the WC or do well individually in KOs, otherwise all his runs in JAMODIs will count for nothing. They'll be used to make a mockery of him.

    The dude has folded in two of the biggest matches of his career in spectacular fashion. Deer in headlights when he faced up to Boult and Amir.

    Even Indians are mocking him.
    He will do well in the next WC, it is in India.

    You do have a point, he failed miserably in two very important matches of his career.

    However that doesnít mean he is a mediocre player.

    Virat has a 59 odd average in ODIs, let that sink in...

    And Iím sure he will break Tendulkarís record of most runs and centuries.

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mueez View Post
    He will do well in the next WC, it is in India.

    You do have a point, he failed miserably in two very important matches of his career.

    However that doesn’t mean he is a mediocre player.

    Virat has a 59 odd average in ODIs, let that sink in...

    And I’m sure he will break Tendulkar’s record of most runs and centuries.
    Dude, you do realize those numbers mean nothing.

    World Champions, runs and wickets in world cups is what matters.

    ODIs are basically considered warm ups for the WC these days. In this day and age its all about world championships, they mean more than ever while ODIs are at an all time low in terms of value and importance.

    Kohli got go on a run and get that average to 70, but if he doesn't win India a WC or leads India well in WCs he's not touching Tendulkar and will forever be in his shadow.
    Last edited by Aman; 13th August 2019 at 03:47.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    One more bad WC and he's out the top 5.

    He has to win India the WC or do well individually in KOs, otherwise all his runs in JAMODIs will count for nothing. They'll be used to make a mockery of him.

    The dude has folded in two of the biggest matches of his career in spectacular fashion. Deer in headlights when he faced up to Boult and Amir.

    Even Indians are mocking him.
    He doesn't really have bad WC campaigns. Maybe 2011 when he didn't have a settled batting position.

    Looking at the numbers, he's put up 50.83 AVG in 2015 and 55.37 AVG in 2019 but it's the knockout games that have hurt him.

    I'm not sure what happens as he's played some incredible innings under pressure across all formats. Maybe it's time to step back from captaincy and play as a batsman in 2023?


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    He doesn't really have bad WC campaigns. Maybe 2011 when he didn't have a settled batting position.

    Looking at the numbers, he's put up 50.83 AVG in 2015 and 55.37 AVG in 2019 but it's the knockout games that have hurt him.

    I'm not sure what happens as he's played some incredible innings under pressure across all formats. Maybe it's time to step back from captaincy and play as a batsman in 2023?
    Came here to write this.

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    He doesn't really have bad WC campaigns. Maybe 2011 when he didn't have a settled batting position.

    Looking at the numbers, he's put up 50.83 AVG in 2015 and 55.37 AVG in 2019 but it's the knockout games that have hurt him.

    I'm not sure what happens as he's played some incredible innings under pressure across all formats. Maybe it's time to step back from captaincy and play as a batsman in 2023?
    I wouldn't trade Kane's 2019 WC run or Smith's 2015 WC run for Kohli's entire ODI career.

    Those were legendary and more meaningful than anything Kohli has achieved in the format.

    Some of you take JAMODIs too seriously, maybe if you made a WC Final and tasted defeat/victory you would understand how meaningless every other match in between is. All you can do is wait and hope you can rectify things 4 years after.
    Last edited by Aman; 13th August 2019 at 04:04.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  63. #143
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    ^Don't mean to sound condescending, it gives you a different perspective.

    Why Aus plays random players in JAMODIs for 3 years and then suddenly get good 6-12 months out really makes sense, they know how to treat the time inbetween WCs.
    Last edited by Aman; 13th August 2019 at 04:06.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  64. #144
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    Kohli is overrated. AB de Villiers is better than him in one day cricket. A middle order batsmen made it to top 3 run grossers of the WC 2015 at a staggering SR while a top order guy, like Kohli, fails to make it to top 10 leading run scorer in WC '15 is quite disappointing.

    de Villiers was also in top 10 in 2011 WC and only behind Yuvraj among middle order bat. In contrast,Kohli was not even in top 10 in any of the World Cup.

  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Kohli is overrated. AB de Villiers is better than him in one day cricket. A middle order batsmen made it to top 3 run grossers of the WC 2015 at a staggering SR while a top order guy, like Kohli, fails to make it to top 10 leading run scorer in WC '15 is quite disappointing.

    de Villiers was also in top 10 in 2011 WC and only behind Yuvraj among middle order bat. In contrast,Kohli was not even in top 10 in any of the World Cup.
    Some people are too focused on numbers in JAMODIs, at the end of the day who remembers them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Some people are too focused on numbers in JAMODIs, at the end of the day who remembers them?
    Kohli is an all-time great and is probably one of the greatest ever in LOIs but he has failed to win his team the WC even though he has the team that can win the tournament.

    So, he has to raise the bar and win his team the WC by delivering standout performance.

  67. #147
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    Iíll say heís their third greatest batsman.

    In Tests, Gavaskar had a far superior defense.

    In ODIís, Tendulkar the greater consistently and longevity.

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I wouldn't trade Kane's 2019 WC run or Smith's 2015 WC run for Kohli's entire ODI career.

    Those were legendary and more meaningful than anything Kohli has achieved in the format.

    Some of you take JAMODIs too seriously, maybe if you made a WC Final and tasted defeat/victory you would understand how meaningless every other match in between is. All you can do is wait and hope you can rectify things 4 years after.
    It's all subjective.

    Junaids was recently looking forward to the Ashes because he finds the entire ODI format (including knockouts) to be useless. Now, we're hearing everything except ICC knockouts + Tests is useless.

    Tomorrow someone else will say everything except the Test championship final is useless.

    Kohli's career in its entirety demonstrates his class. This is not some random batsman beating up on Zimbabwe in bilateral ODIs. He's one of the best Test batsmen in the game (scored everywhere), put up great numbers in ODI cricket including WC group stages (once again scored everywhere), and has a spotless T20I record. Kohli's ODI numbers aren't a fluke or an outlier. They're consistent with everything he's ever done.

    A player's lifetime of work cannot be tossed into the trash bin because he hasn't performed in ODI knockouts.

    I'm the first to say he needs to fix this flaw (probably his only one as a batsman) but what he's doing across all three formats is generational. To switch so prolifically between formats with a billion people watching your every move is nothing short of incredible.


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  69. #149
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    India as of now has 5 batsmen who convincingly stands above the rest namely
    Sachin,Dravid,Gavaskar,Sehwag & Kohli all formats combined.

    As of now Kohli is definitely behind Sachin & I don't think he will surpass him ever. As of now Dravid has every chance of being better to Kohli because of him being convincingly better in tests.Dravid was very good in ODIs too with a 39 avg: & 61+ avg: in world cups.Kohli may end up better to Sehwag and Gavaskar by maintaining his current performance. He may end up better to Dravid with 1 or 2 world cup knock out inns. That's it.

  70. #150
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    If Kohli has a good World Cup with consistent performance in knockouts in 2023 or 2027 and has a successful Test World Championship campaign he will be remembered as the greatest Indian cricketer.
    He has outscored Indian greats like Dravid already, who were more or less mediocre against great attacks in tests, especially overseas.

    He needs to get rid of dead weights like Kedar Jadhav and get in Gill etc. Getting
    in Shreyas Iyer is a good sign. His selection as a captain has been terrible at times. Needs to improve on that front or give up captaincy to Rohit. That would surely hurt his legacy.

    Injury withstanding, he will end his career with 120 international centuries and for me unlike SRT he has never played a selfish inning in his life, yet. That alone, gives him a boost in the SRT/Gavaskar vs Kohli debate, in my eyes. I feel ODI/Test combined he will surpass Gavaskar after a year or two of consistent performances in tests. Gavaskar was rubbish in ODIs and played the worst ODI innings of all time. Kohli is a much better all round player.

  71. #151
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    We are not qualified to make a judgement as much as Viv. Viv said "He reminded me of myself". Viv in the commentary box while Kohli batting only confirmed that. By the look of it Viv himself is a big fan of Kohli. It is not easy to do what he is doing. Until someone comes out and scores centuries at frenetic rate, i won't believe it is easy. When guys like Richards or even Akram look at players they don't look at the era. THey have a completely different perspective than the keyboard warriors as they were on the field and created their own legacy. This is basically nothing but cooking the numbers without ever being on the field facing world class bowlers.


    https://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...sPwjaPbJP.html

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    We are not qualified to make a judgement as much as Viv. Viv said "He reminded me of myself". Viv in the commentary box while Kohli batting only confirmed that. By the look of it Viv himself is a big fan of Kohli. It is not easy to do what he is doing. Until someone comes out and scores centuries at frenetic rate, i won't believe it is easy. When guys like Richards or even Akram look at players they don't look at the era. THey have a completely different perspective than the keyboard warriors as they were on the field and created their own legacy. This is basically nothing but cooking the numbers without ever being on the field facing world class bowlers.


    https://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...sPwjaPbJP.html
    Akram would have eaten Kohli alive come a pressure match.

    He's already been made to look like a fool against Boult and Amir.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Akram would have eaten Kohli alive come a pressure match.

    He's already been made to look like a fool against Boult and Amir.
    It takes one match to turn things around. Ponting failed countless times in crunch knockouts but people remember his 140*. Likewise for Dhonis 91*.

    Kohli needs one big knock in a knockout that's all. To cement his place as the greatest.

  74. #154
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    Viv
    Sachin
    Ponting
    ABDV
    Kohli

    If Kohli plays a legendary knock in a WC final,he will surpass Ponting and ABDV and end up in top 3, but continue to remain behind Viv and Sachin. Viv because he already has a legendary knock in WC final and overall averages phenomenal 65 for that era in the World Cups and SRT because he was a prolific run scorer in a total of 3 WCs( 1,1,2 in 96,03,11) while Kohli hasn't been even in top in any till now.

    WCs are not everything but when it comes down to top 3, this is what seperates all.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Kohli is overrated. AB de Villiers is better than him in one day cricket. A middle order batsmen made it to top 3 run grossers of the WC 2015 at a staggering SR while a top order guy, like Kohli, fails to make it to top 10 leading run scorer in WC '15 is quite disappointing.

    de Villiers was also in top 10 in 2011 WC and only behind Yuvraj among middle order bat. In contrast,Kohli was not even in top 10 in any of the World Cup.
    I agree 100%. Kohli is definitely an ATG. However some of his fans claim he is a GOAT depsite being completely average in World Cup and a tailender in KO match.

    I don't know how anybody puts Kohli over ABD in ODIs. ABD has achieved everything, one of the greatest WC player ever. He also has superhuman feats of fastest 50, 100 and 150 in ODIs. Kohli has stacked so many records playing easy bilateral matches, but somehow he always fails to replicate those in WC.

    So yeah, he IS overrated in ODIs. I don't see him anywhere near Viv and Tendulkar, and ABD as well.

  76. #156
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    All thing considered specially stats yes.

  77. #157
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    Still below Gavaskar Sachin and Dravid in tests and below Sachin in ODIS. Can maybe finish the best in ODIS but donít think he will be above the others in tests.

    Still better than any Pakistani batsmen for sure but not quite at the top for India yet.

  78. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmatic_stani View Post
    Still below Gavaskar Sachin and Dravid in tests and below Sachin in ODIS. Can maybe finish the best in ODIS but donít think he will be above the others in tests.

    Still better than any Pakistani batsmen for sure but not quite at the top for India yet.
    Will easily surpass Sunny and Dravid in Tests.

  79. #159
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    Kohli is behind SRT.

    I don't think he can surpass Sachin now. He will be the second best for sure, ODI + Tests will give him an edge over Gavaskar, also the fact that people of Gavaskar's generation are not that relevant anymore so Kohli will get an edge over him.

  80. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    No. Sachin Tendulkar is.
    Agreed. Kohli is a distant second imo.


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