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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Viv
    Sachin
    Ponting
    ABDV
    Kohli

    If Kohli plays a legendary knock in a WC final,he will surpass Ponting and ABDV and end up in top 3, but continue to remain behind Viv and Sachin. Viv because he already has a legendary knock in WC final and overall averages phenomenal 65 for that era in the World Cups and SRT because he was a prolific run scorer in a total of 3 WCs( 1,1,2 in 96,03,11) while Kohli hasn't been even in top in any till now.

    WCs are not everything but when it comes down to top 3, this is what seperates all.
    No room for Lara among that lot?

    As an opposition fan, I've placed a higher value on the wickets of Lara and Tendulkar than Kohli and ABDV.

    I always worried about Lara and Tendulkar's ability to destroy high class bowling, while Kohli and ABDV seem more vulnerable.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    McGrath wasn't better than Lillee. No need for stats.

    When the whole Australians claim that McGrath can never match the aura of Lillee, then who are we to disagree with that. Lillee revolutionised fast bowling. Nobody comes ahead of him except Malcolm Marshall.
    Lillee was arguably the best Australian quickie of all-time. Viv Richards scored 5 centuries and lots of fifties against him. That is why Viv is a great batsman.

    McGrath was more of a line and length bowler. Hadlee was similar to McGrath but had more pace and could swing the ball more.

    Marshall, Hadlee, Lillee, and Imran were probably the best fast bowlers of Vivs era.

    Best batsman for me is Bradman.
    Best batting all-rounder is Sobers.
    Best wicketkeeper batsman is Gilchrist.
    Best bowling all-rounder is Imran.
    Best fast bowler is Malcolm Marshall.
    Best leg-spinner is Shane Warne.
    Best off-spinner is Murali.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricket follower View Post
    Lillee was arguably the best Australian quickie of all-time. Viv Richards scored 5 centuries and lots of fifties against him. That is why Viv is a great batsman.

    McGrath was more of a line and length bowler. Hadlee was similar to McGrath but had more pace and could swing the ball more.

    Marshall, Hadlee, Lillee, and Imran were probably the best fast bowlers of Vivs era.

    Best batsman for me is Bradman.
    Best batting all-rounder is Sobers.
    Best wicketkeeper batsman is Gilchrist.
    Best bowling all-rounder is Imran.
    Best fast bowler is Malcolm Marshall.
    Best leg-spinner is Shane Warne.
    Best off-spinner is Murali.
    McGrath trumps Lillee.

    Lillee got carted around in Pakistan (and on flatter decks in general) while McGrath was superb everywhere.

  4. #164
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    no he is greatest in the world

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torborg View Post
    No room for Lara among that lot?

    As an opposition fan, I've placed a higher value on the wickets of Lara and Tendulkar than Kohli and ABDV.

    I always worried about Lara and Tendulkar's ability to destroy high class bowling, while Kohli and ABDV seem more vulnerable.
    Lara was a brilliant ODI batsmen but declined a bit too much in second half, particularly in ODIs. There were plenty cricketers who were better than Lara in the decade between 2000-2009. In 90s, he was up there with Tendulkar but declined in comparison to SRT who was great in 2nd half as well. He hasnt dominated WCs enough either.

    So, particularly in ODI format, I will have him in top 10 but misses out of top 5. In tests, he is arguably the best of the lot alongside SRT.

  6. #166
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    Nope, I love Kohli and his work ethic, but you can't sit here and pretend that you can put him in that Tendulkar, Ponting, Viv, Lara league if he hasn't even performed in a ODI Knockout. He's had 3 average-below average world cups. If a 40 in a CT Final is his best accomplishment in the a knockout then he surely does not belong in the top tier. Even if he hadn't performed in the Knockouts and had a monster league stage I'd say he would be up there. But before the WC with his form and all people were expecting him to break every single world cup record, but in the end he got outplayed by a Pakistani batsman Babar Azam. Let's be real here no matter what sport you take performing on the big stage and knockouts is how ultimately judge a player it's just the way it works. With American sports if you don't perform in the playoffs in NBA/NFL your value goes down drastically and that hinders your stock. For example one of the most talented wide receivers OBJ who is probably the most talented wideout in all of football is not put in the top 3 tier of wideouts ahead of guys Julio, AB, and Deandre who have performed in the knockouts when given the chance. Heck even a guy like Julian Edelman makes it into many experts top 5 just because of how productive he is in the playoffs. In Cricket the whole World Cup can be considered the playoffs as that is the 1 time in 4 years where it's all tested your temperament, technique, and most importantly your ability to handle pressure. Virat Kohli has not shown he can handle the pressure and that is a vital skill in all of sports if you can not tick that box it doesn't matter what sport it is you can not be considered the GOAT. Now finally everyone is starting to rate AB higher than Virat too. I've been saying it AB had a monster world cup in 2015 and he needed to be to truly deserve the ATG label, as like Virat prior to the 2019 WC he was dominating World Cricket. So he had to dominate the World Cup to legitimatize everything he had done. And that is exactly what he did he hit 480+ Runs at an average of close to a 100 and a SR of close to 150. He dominated and would have led his team to the finals and might have won his team the WC single single-handedly if it wasn't for rain and SA didn't get unlucky. Virat's best world cup which just happened isn't even remotely as good as AB's. Hence not only is Virat not India's best batsman he isn't even the best batsman of this era ABD like I've been saying for years now easily takes that mantle.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torborg View Post
    No room for Lara among that lot?

    As an opposition fan, I've placed a higher value on the wickets of Lara and Tendulkar than Kohli and ABDV.

    I always worried about Lara and Tendulkar's ability to destroy high class bowling, while Kohli and ABDV seem more vulnerable.
    Lara was an average batsman in ODIs after 200s. ABD was far more consistent and destructive for the entirety of his career.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Akram would have eaten Kohli alive come a pressure match.

    He's already been made to look like a fool against Boult and Amir.
    Basically world cup semis, finals things like that lol That would be like 2 or 3 matches in the whole career.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Akram would have eaten Kohli alive come a pressure match.

    He's already been made to look like a fool against Boult and Amir.
    Check the record of Ponting, Lara, Warne, Muralitharan in India. Ponting had several failures. Won't diminish their legacy. What you say is even more specific scenario. Knockouts, left arm bowler, chasing pressure things like that. Lot of things have to be in sync for that to happen.

  10. #170
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    Always good to watch the King bat.

    60+ average now

  11. #171
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    No...he is the most overrated batsman

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Always good to watch the King bat.

    60+ average now
    Legendary numbers.

    Made the chase look like a cakewalk.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  13. #173
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    Kohli not scoring huge even in league matches, has lot to do with the openers that India have, who clicked in most of the matches, and hence no real time for Kohli to score big. In Pakistan case, one of their opener has always failed, and Babar Azam got enough to built his innings.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Nope, I love Kohli and his work ethic, but you can't sit here and pretend that you can put him in that Tendulkar, Ponting, Viv, Lara league if he hasn't even performed in a ODI Knockout. He's had 3 average-below average world cups. If a 40 in a CT Final is his best accomplishment in the a knockout then he surely does not belong in the top tier. Even if he hadn't performed in the Knockouts and had a monster league stage I'd say he would be up there. But before the WC with his form and all people were expecting him to break every single world cup record, but in the end he got outplayed by a Pakistani batsman Babar Azam. Let's be real here no matter what sport you take performing on the big stage and knockouts is how ultimately judge a player it's just the way it works. With American sports if you don't perform in the playoffs in NBA/NFL your value goes down drastically and that hinders your stock. For example one of the most talented wide receivers OBJ who is probably the most talented wideout in all of football is not put in the top 3 tier of wideouts ahead of guys Julio, AB, and Deandre who have performed in the knockouts when given the chance. Heck even a guy like Julian Edelman makes it into many experts top 5 just because of how productive he is in the playoffs. In Cricket the whole World Cup can be considered the playoffs as that is the 1 time in 4 years where it's all tested your temperament, technique, and most importantly your ability to handle pressure. Virat Kohli has not shown he can handle the pressure and that is a vital skill in all of sports if you can not tick that box it doesn't matter what sport it is you can not be considered the GOAT. Now finally everyone is starting to rate AB higher than Virat too. I've been saying it AB had a monster world cup in 2015 and he needed to be to truly deserve the ATG label, as like Virat prior to the 2019 WC he was dominating World Cricket. So he had to dominate the World Cup to legitimatize everything he had done. And that is exactly what he did he hit 480+ Runs at an average of close to a 100 and a SR of close to 150. He dominated and would have led his team to the finals and might have won his team the WC single single-handedly if it wasn't for rain and SA didn't get unlucky. Virat's best world cup which just happened isn't even remotely as good as AB's. Hence not only is Virat not India's best batsman he isn't even the best batsman of this era ABD like I've been saying for years now easily takes that mantle.
    Virat kohli's career is not over. And he will be playing the next WC in india. It is premature to say Ab > Kohli

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enforcer View Post
    Virat kohli's career is not over. And he will be playing the next WC in india. It is premature to say Ab > Kohli
    It's not premature, I haven't said it's a done deal have I? If Kohli does dominate like ABD did in the 2015 WC then sure you can call him better than ABD. But right now it's clear ABD is better than Virat Kohli.

    However I doubt Virat will have a better WC then this one since he will be 34 and honestly this was the WC where he'd been in beast mode leading up to it so if he was ever going to dominate a WC it should of been this one. But let's see I highly doubt he'll dominate the next one if anything it will be similar to this one imo.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enforcer View Post
    Virat kohli's career is not over. And he will be playing the next WC in india. It is premature to say Ab > Kohli
    Till now,

    Kohli has been a bilateral bully while de Villiers has performed both in bilaterals and World Cup.

    AB was in top 10 scorer in WC 2011 and at 3 in WC 2015 while Kohli wasn't even in top 10 run scorer in any of 2011,2015 and 2019 WC even though has a lower Strike Rate and bats higher than former.

    What will happen in future is future. So, actually it's premature to call the other way round. Once Kohli improves his performance in WC, he will be better. This is what we are agreeing.

  17. #177
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    India captain Virat Kohli took pride in his 43th one-day international hundred, which sealed a 2-0 series win for his side against West Indies.

    Kohli's 114* off 99 balls helped India chase down a DLS-adjusted target of 255 off 35 overs after West Indies posted 240/7 in their 35 overs. It was his second hundred in a row, and an incredible 26th while chasing.

    "I've been around for a while," the captain explained. "Experience counts in pressure situations, understanding where the team is heading and what I need to do for the tempo of the game.

    "You want to take pride in stepping up for the team as much as you can, and I definitely take a lot of pride in that. So yes, two good games with the bat from me, but, more importantly, we got the result because of my contribution. That feels much better."

    Kohli admitted to some nerves in the camp when the match was interrupted by rain. Chris Gayle and Evin Lewis had given the West Indies a blazing start, reminding the Indians why they were rated as "two of the most dangerous players in the world in white-ball cricket". "We tried literally everything, we bowled every ball possible," said Kohli. "That was tremendous batting by them."

    Being 92/3 in their reply did little to steady the team's nerves. However, Shreyas Iyer then came together with Kohli to add 120 for the fourth wicket. It was Iyer's second half-century in the series, doing his case to be a regular in the side no harm – and Kohli said as much.

    Shreyas has come along really well. He's presented a strong case for himself to be a regular feature in the middle order.
    Kohli on Iyer

    "Shreyas has come along really well," he said, all praise for the 24-year-old. "He's stepped in and played with confidence. That augers well for the team. He's presented a strong case for himself ... to be a regular feature in the middle order.

    "He wasn't intimidated at all, he was confident, very sure of his game. That's great to see, and hopefully he builds on to this and keeps performing for the team."

    In what will come as high praise indeed, Kohli said the youngster's attitude reminded him of himself when he was starting out. "You need to stack up performances and play well under pressure," Kohli said. "I was exactly the same when I came in – any opportunity I got I wanted to win games for my team. You have take risks. He was brave under pressure. You need to reveal your game, you need to realise who you are, what your game is, what kind of player you are, so he's heading in the right direction."

    https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/1311868


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  18. #178
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    Name:  IMG_20190815_105713.jpg
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  19. #179
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    Kohli has only one shortcoming. He doesn't perform in world cups. That's a big shortcoming. Otherwise he is a phenomenal player. But to cross tendul he has to perform very big in next world cup.

  20. #180
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    He's had 3 average World cups which fall in the way of him being counted ahead of Sachin in ODI Cricket.

    Sachin apart from being the best ODI batsman in his era also dominated 1996, 2003 and 2011 world cup with the bat.

    There is little doubt if Tendulkar played today he would produce the same returns if not better.

    ODI cricket itself is a joke now. Most teams do not play their top bowlers in this format except in the world cup. Even there many teams do not unleash their best attack. When Tendulkar, Lara played they were up against the best bowlers even in Jamodis.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    ODI cricket itself is a joke now. Most teams do not play their top bowlers in this format except in the world cup. Even there many teams do not unleash their best attack. When Tendulkar, Lara played they were up against the best bowlers even in Jamodis.
    Can't really use that against Kohli.

    He's scored everywhere against everyone in all formats. Otherwise, he'd fall apart in Test cricket if the issue was bowling quality.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    Can't really use that against Kohli.

    He's scored everywhere against everyone in all formats. Otherwise, he'd fall apart in Test cricket if the issue was bowling quality.
    No one is denying his greatness. As an Indian I celebrate the fact that we have a batsman of his calibre.

    Heading into th 2019 world cup, we knew Kohli was a due a big one at the grandest stage. He once again had an average world cup where quite a number of batsmen did better than him. We will have to be as fair in our review as we have been with Amla. It's now 3 world cups without any serious impact.

    Given the sorry state of ODI cricket over the last decade where most nations do not bother to pick their top bowlers, world cup performance automatically becomes a big criteria to determine the best.

    As outrageous an ODI career he's had, not having even dominated one world cup till date will remain a blot on his legacy.

    Tendulkar's dominated 3 world cups. Kohli's not had one till date.

    We hope he does better in 2023 and maybe he can stick around till 2027

    Without a world cup trophy or a MOTT his ODI career will not be remembered very happily by most Indians. People are already bored of the Jamodi runs.

    There is also a gulf between him and Smith in test cricket which doesn't seem to be narrowing.

    Tendulkar played among some phenomenal batters and remained class apart in both formats and dominated world cups at the same time. If things remain the same for Kohli he's never going to be rated ahead of Sachin by Indians.

  23. #183
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    World Cup basically determines who's the best in ODI now. Majority of teams rest their best bowlers regularly in bilaterals. Kohli failing in 3 consecutive WC KO matches is the biggest dark spot in his career. Those matches outweigh all other meaningless bilateral combined.

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    No one is denying his greatness. As an Indian I celebrate the fact that we have a batsman of his calibre.

    Heading into th 2019 world cup, we knew Kohli was a due a big one at the grandest stage. He once again had an average world cup where quite a number of batsmen did better than him. We will have to be as fair in our review as we have been with Amla. It's now 3 world cups without any serious impact.

    Given the sorry state of ODI cricket over the last decade where most nations do not bother to pick their top bowlers, world cup performance automatically becomes a big criteria to determine the best.

    As outrageous an ODI career he's had, not having even dominated one world cup till date will remain a blot on his legacy.

    Tendulkar's dominated 3 world cups. Kohli's not had one till date.

    We hope he does better in 2023 and maybe he can stick around till 2027

    Without a world cup trophy or a MOTT his ODI career will not be remembered very happily by most Indians. People are already bored of the Jamodi runs.

    There is also a gulf between him and Smith in test cricket which doesn't seem to be narrowing.

    Tendulkar played among some phenomenal batters and remained class apart in both formats and dominated world cups at the same time. If things remain the same for Kohli he's never going to be rated ahead of Sachin by Indians.
    i for one, rate that Kohli inns of 35(49) balls in that 2011 final very highly. In front of the home crowd, with crores all across the nation placing high expectations on the team to utilize a rare golden oppertunity,with the biggest total to be chased down in the history of world cup finals(as it resulted in the end),with 2 of your team's biggest experienced players back in the pavilion by 31, the knock played by Kohli is easily worth at least a 50 for me otherwise.And this is exactly where I badly wish he would have scored 15 more runs in that final. THis is because if it was a 50 instead of a 35, its' worth would have been at the least some 80 by ordinary yardstick.But it didn't
    happen.

    And it is this 15 run gap , that I hope Kohli would fill in any of the KO matches in his next 2 world cup outings.And it is this gap that prevents him from being a contender for that GOAT title as of now(keep in mind , even then there is no guarantee that Kohli would have 100% SURELY surpassed the likes of ABDV,Sachin,VIv & a perhaps a few others).
    Other than that, his exploits in this format is 'out of the ordinary' how ever strongly some one denies those. 26 100s in chasing out of a total 43 100s, especially a few of those highly influencing very important tournaments like 'first series wins abroad in SAF,AUS' etc is nothing sort of absolute brilliance. The fact that he convincingly outweighs his peers in several aspects like total runs, avg:, total 100s,chasing 100s etc by maintaing such a top str: can't be neglected as nothing worth because of that 1 blot.With 4 KO inns in 'WC+CT combined' to add to all these,
    that 1 KO inns in a WC remains pending for him to compete for that GOAT title.

  25. #185
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    In tests, I don't think he is a great yet let alone being better than the likes of Sachin and Sunny.

    In ODIs, he has a good claim for the GOAT batsman title but I think Sachin is still ahead.


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